PlaneShift

Fan Area => Fan Art => Topic started by: minetus on April 28, 2007, 02:50:47 am

Title: Contribution Discussion
Post by: minetus on April 28, 2007, 02:50:47 am
re: What the Team needs from You (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28502.0)

just a sugestion/question, wouldnt it be better to have for notes just one 3d model with diferent textures insted? same aplies for scrolls and books

Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on April 28, 2007, 02:59:16 am
Then if you do one, you have to do them all ;) Again, this is up to the community. We will pick what we find to be the best contribution. This includes smart modeling and evidence of thinking exactly of such dilemmas. We have no current 3D models for notes or scrolls, and I don't believe we have anything decent for the sort of books on the list. So there aren't any existing models to worry about.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on April 28, 2007, 07:55:32 am
"Platinum Holy Symbol of Laanx" -- and Jade too, for the amulets.

I hope I can find somewhere a description, or even a draft, of those symbols. I bet I have seen them somewhere, but never found a documentation so far that "that symbol over there is the symbol of Laanx"...


/me starts to read the Player Guide again.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on April 28, 2007, 08:11:50 am
I believe both Xillix and Jeraphon will be happy to lend their full support to the artists working on these contributions, so if anything needs explaining, send one of them a PM on these forums and they will try to give you a better description of the item you are interested in. (If anyone does this, it would be nice to have the description posted for the rest of the artists to see as well.)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on April 28, 2007, 08:31:44 am
I assume that the Laanx symbol will be the "snake" as seen in the texture "new_la_wall".
__

Or rather a kind of horn -- after looking closer, it appears to look rather like a musical instrument.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on April 28, 2007, 11:56:57 am
I was wondering why there is need to make different mesh and texture for all these scrolls and notes. In fact i see there rather notes, a piece of paper. Wouldn't it be more efficient to make only 5 different of this kind and use them for the different notes?
We would have to know how many are done in PS already and if there are not enough, maybe make a texture only, as LigH proposed? we would have to know the UVmap.
Would be more efficient, if there were be like 20 notes visible around at once.
I'm also interested in the texture size. Since it is small object.. 32x32 64x64 ?

Similiar about rings. They are small objects, but round... like a torus. This is problematic for small face count. To how many are we restricted?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on April 28, 2007, 12:08:35 pm
Nikodemus, did you read the thread? I have mentioned things like polycount and texture size. Please read over it again, and read through the few posts in this thread - Minetus too mentioned the subject of notes.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on April 28, 2007, 12:12:50 pm
I'm sorry, i assumed that if there aren't these informations, near the listed things, everything is generalised for them all, not specified for each.
I didn't read it all yet and was planning to do it later this day.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Illysia on April 29, 2007, 08:07:15 pm
For the notes should we use english words and characters or should we just come up with squiggles for them? And can we also toss in quest items that aren't as urgent like the carrot juice? It's probably something that can be done quickly and then just added in with the rest.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on April 29, 2007, 08:10:53 pm
Squiggles are the better choice for notes/letters. If an item is missing a model or icon but it's not on that list, don't attempt it just yet - chances are we already have it done by devs or prospects.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Cherppow on April 30, 2007, 10:54:32 am
Hi,

An interesting thread. I'm looking forward to see what kind of solutions you come up with. Make us proud. :)

- Cherppow
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Induane on April 30, 2007, 03:09:13 pm
Someone pointed out to me that the laanx wheel of wishes was back online.  I was wondering how that meshes in with this, do they overlap?  Either way good to see this.  I spent some time on models last night but I'm very slow with texturing well, especially trying to get something like a transparant look on a gem on a sprite like a ring hehe.  Tricksy stuff.  If anyone has any tips on that let me know, Mine always come out looking either shiny or totally flat, but not translucent.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Xordan on April 30, 2007, 03:33:12 pm
Someone pointed out to me that the laanx wheel of wishes was back online.

Really? I don't think any dev knew. I tried to contact the person who ran it a while back about reviving it and hosting it but I got no response so I assumed it was dead myself. What's the address?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Caarrie on April 30, 2007, 04:51:37 pm
http://lww.demon-host.com/index.php
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on April 30, 2007, 05:27:39 pm
@ cyber - "Amulet of Talad":

Don't you think the amulet itself might need a texture too?

Apart from that, a basic model can already be a preferred choice.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on April 30, 2007, 07:00:23 pm
Just a note of warning to everyone: if you fail to follow the rules I have mentioned, I will be deleting your entry. I've laid a lot of effort into putting this together for you, so the least you can do is read the instructions and make sure your entry fits all guidelines. If you're having trouble, start up another thread and ask for help and advice there. The official thread is for final work, not work in progress. Please be respectful of the rules :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Cherppow on May 02, 2007, 05:21:09 pm
Hi,

Ah, the brave first contributors!

To LigH: Quite nice! Hmm, where have I seen this symbol... in podium walls perhaps. I'm not sure which is meant here, "polishing" or "polished". Karyuu or Xillix, you know more?

To Proglin: Interesting, I like the damage on the side there. The textures should be integrated into one image though. Each image requires one rendering pass from CS, so we should keep the number of images as low as possible.


Karyuu gave pretty good info in the main thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28502.0) how to do required things in 3Ds Max. I'll fill in how these can be done in Blender, as I think many of you don't have the more expensive cousin.


Modeling

Quote from: Karyuu
To get an accurate poly count for models intended to be used in games in 3ds Max, for example, you must convert the model to an editable mesh before using the polygon counter. This is because the game engine will view the model in the same way, ie. with triangular faces.

In Blender you can see current face (=polygon) count in the header of the user preferences window. It's found in the top of Blender screen by default. Note that in object mode it shows the total number of faces in current scene. While in edit mode, it shows the faces of the current object (along with other info).

(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/facecount_indicator.png)
The three pairs of numbers are vertices, edges and faces. First value shows currently selected, and the latter shows the total number. To us the important number is total faces, which is 52 for this model.

Like Karyuu said, faces need to be in triangles, so convert them with ctrl+t in editmode. Afterwards check that triangles are oriented the way you want. If not, you can flip a pair with ctrl+f in editmode. This can have great effect in how lights are calculated on the object.


UVs and textures

Quote from: Karyuu
You will need to export and show a colored UV map (example here) so that we see the texture is laid out correctly. Textures themselves for these simple models shouldn’t exceed 128x128. Export your textures as a .PNG, but always keep your original working files – whether they are Photoshop’s .PSD or something else. We don’t use bump or spec or normal mapping (yet!) so all we need is the base texture alone. The texture .PNG will need to be presented with the UV.

I don't think Blender has built in script for coloured UV maps. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) There used to be a script called UVpainter, but I couldn't find it in the new version of Blender. So, we'll have to do two layouts and join them. The normal UV layout can be created in UV/Image editor header: UVs-Scripts-Save UV Face Layout. Note that you need to be in UV Face select mode for the menu to appear.

 For the colours we can use Bake Render function. Create a new image of same size as your UV map, and assign it to your model. Then select your model and "bake render normals" from User preferences header: Render - Bake Render Meshes - Normals. Save this new texture from UV/Image Editor and merge it with the UV face layout image in a paint soft.

Simple Blender UV mapping guides: http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-242/uv-unwrapping/ (http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-242/uv-unwrapping/)


Inventory Icons

Quote from: Karyuu
If you have the model and the texture, creating the icon is a piece of cake. Render your object, perhaps with some lights in the scene if the default light is not enough, then take the image into a graphic editor and to some work. If your 3D application is able to let you see an alpha channel from the render, that’s perfect. Save them both, isolate your object in GIMP or Photoshop using that alpha (get rid of the render background), then apply a soft black outer glow and you are done. The icons need to be 64x64 pixels, so make sure that glow doesn’t get cut off at the edges.

In Blender you can view the alpha by pressing a-key in the render window. Copy both the normal render and the alpha into GIMP and copy-paste the alpha image into the mask of the colour render. Use "Apply layer mask" to convert the mask into actual alpha channel. Same alpha can be used to create the black outer glow, by using Alpha to selection and Stroke Selection functions. But you can use what you feel most comfortable with.


Presentation Screenshots

Quote from: Karyuu
Since you’re not going to upload the models themselves for us to see, you’ll have to let screenshots do the job. Have a couple of orthographic views (top, left, front, etc.) and then one or two in a perspective. These need to show the textured object. In addition, you will need to show a screenshot of the wireframe. If working with 3ds max, you can find one tutorial on presentation-worthy wireframe rendering here, and another here. I use the second method for my own work, but the choice is yours among many. Use what works best for you, as long as it looks good. Keep the screenshots fairly small, no need to go above 500x500 pixels to show a single view.

Like you probably know, Orthographic view in Blender is accessed with numpad 5 and directions with numpad 7,1 and 3. Snap the camera to your current viewpoint with ctrl+alt+ins, and render with F12.

For the wireframe render, go into material buttons panel and click "wire" under Render and pipeline. Also click the "shadeless" button under material tab, to disable shadows and highlights on the wireframe. This will make the grid more clear and easier to fathom. Choose colour of the wireframe by clicking the box next to "col" button. I also recommend enabling "ztransp" and "full osa" for better visuals when objects overlap.
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/wireframe_settings.png)

If you want to go for the jagged edge, oldschool look, find your way into Scene-Render buttons panel and disable oversampling "OSA".
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/hardedge_settings.png)

*edit*

Please remember to check that you have all the needed pieces when making a commit.

Quote from: Karyuu
Submissions must include 1) the total triangle count of the object, 2) UV map+texture, 3) ready inventory icon, 4) several screenshots of the item itself, in various views, with at least a couple of them showing the wireframe. You can’t submit an inventory icon separately, or a model separately – it doesn’t make much sense to have these broken up and consistency between the objects is likely to break if people work on them separately.

An example commit:
(I don't want to spoil your fun, so I did an item outside the list.)

Contributor(s): Cherppow
Item: Old helm
Triangle count: 300 tri
Texture size: 128 x 128 px

Inventory icon:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/helm_cherppow_icon.png)

UV map and texture images:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/helm_cherppow_UVcombo.png) (http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/helm_cherppow2.png)

Screenshots:
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/cherps_helm.png)


Ok, that's about all I can think of. Have fun. :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 02, 2007, 05:28:44 pm
Cherppow, your aid and suggestions are always a much-welcomed treat! :) Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this out.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 02, 2007, 09:08:04 pm
The artwork on the cloth? -- Stand on the well down into the dungeons, and look upwards to the temple ceiling.
__

Orthography is the art not to make mistakes in written sentences.

A display with equal distances along ordinates, and no perspective distortion (projection from infinity), is orthogonality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthogonality).
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 02, 2007, 10:14:47 pm
@ rast:

The contract model is great: Simple and meaningful. Just the texture ... It should, IMHO, look more like handwritten text, rather than a template made of writing lines.

Your "cup" (I remember "Indiana Jones and the last crusade") I'd rather call "chalice". But the word "cup" has different meanings in online dictionaries, the geometry of a "coffee cup" may be rather modern. Well - I bet we have the chance to see both for slightly different purposes.

And for the Laanx symbol: Remember there is also a Jade version! ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: rast on May 02, 2007, 10:19:39 pm
Thanks for the comments - I can make a jade version simply by switching the texture file - i managed to UV map the model so it would fit your origional image.

I'll give the contract texture a "makeover" at some point :)
edit: more like it?
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7058/revisedcontractnewtextuju4.png (http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7058/revisedcontractnewtextuju4.png)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 03, 2007, 12:06:33 am
Maybe use this font: http://www.dafont.com/old-script.font instead too
You may need to make your texture more detailed too, as with this level of detail any text may be pointless anyway.
I didn't like the horizontal lines too. Made it look modern.

Edit:
whats the point of these colors: http://darkforces.jediknight.net/tutorials/skinning/pic/step1_uvmap.jpg ?
Since you can make your texture to be seamless with something else in any area of the texture, how the colors are supposed to reflect it? isn't it better to actually examine the texture with UV lines on it?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Illysia on May 03, 2007, 02:01:58 am
I didn't like the horizontal lines too. Made it look modern.

The Consistitution of the United States is handwritten and the lines are quite straight.  ;D Besides people in the past weren't as sloppy with writing as we are today and definately not sloppy with important papers.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Xordan on May 03, 2007, 02:21:04 am
The constitution is modern :P But yeah, documents from quite a while back were pretty neat and ordered (Roman stuff for example).
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 03, 2007, 08:35:46 am
If someone is looking for not roman looking writing systems, I recommend Tommy of Escondido's Alien Fonts Page (http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4965/index.html).
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 03, 2007, 12:15:17 pm
Illysia, you meant this one: http://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/constitution-workshop/images/Constitution_Pg1of4_AC-l.jpg ?

Anyway on your pieces of papers..... have you been trying to make the edges look like actual edges? You could use there alpha chanel too.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Mordaan on May 03, 2007, 04:31:12 pm
Polishing cloth -- assuming that you mean a cloth which is used to polish some items, not a cloth that is polished itself...

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth_icon.png) (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth.png) <= clickable

P.S.: You can also order different base colors and artworks. ;)

Good one, LigH.  But remember, its supposed to have something embroidered on it, right?   ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on May 03, 2007, 05:14:49 pm
Moving my comment to the right place.

Okay, on this one I know I'm not wrong. :)

Quote
As you can see, many of these items come from quests. So to really do them justice, you will probably have to be familiar with the NPCs and stories involved. I should hear no artists at all saying that they never do quests or don’t bother, etc., etc. Wink If you plan on contributing to PS, you should be familiar with all it has to offer.

If you've done the Interview Sunshine Squadron Applicants quest, looking at the three application forms would show you that they all look fundamentally different. Unfortunately, because it would be a quest spoiler I can't tell you HOW (you'd have to do it and shown by the quote above, Karyuu is backing me up) but suffice to say it looks great for Taulim's, but doesn't fit the description of Sinto's or Zak's. Mind you, when shrunk down to that size it might not be noticeable, and/or since they're quest items people really won't care about the differences. I dunno.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 03, 2007, 05:30:25 pm
I don't know ... possible that I did not yet get that quest. (If so - tell me next weekend in game how to get it...)

But I can make the artwork look like broidered instead of painted. Or is there a specific symbol or text expected?
__

Oops -- this is not the discussion thread! Mod: Please move the last two replies...  :-[
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: rast on May 03, 2007, 11:14:12 pm
cheers everyone for comments/advice/criticism

only a quick post - tryed with a different font and a bit of general texture edditing:
(http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6139/signedcontract007iv9.th.png) (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=signedcontract007iv9.png)

cheers all,
rast
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 04, 2007, 07:41:48 am
@ Nikodemus:

Wooden ticket? Why not! Surely more reliable than paper. Probably also hard to counterfeit, with some secret details in wood selection, coloring ink, or branding stamps...
__

P.S.: (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth-Y_icon.png) (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth-Y.png) <= now with the "Y".
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Mordaan on May 04, 2007, 04:43:06 pm
@ Nikodemus:
P.S.: (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth-Y_icon.png) (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/PolishingCloth-Y.png) <= now with the "Y".

 :thumbup:
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 05, 2007, 10:00:04 am
That "P.S." was not anymore "@ Nikodemus". ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 07, 2007, 04:29:09 pm
Not 100% related to the "What the team needs from you," but part of contribution all the same. Maybe a 2D - 3D project. It would be focused on things to be implemented into planeshift. It could work like the fan art project where someone posts somehting and another person draw it, except! People would post concept drawings, which other members of the community can try and transfer into 3D use for game. Now it wouldnt be things that 'need' to be implemented into game obviously as they are covered by the current thread, but instead its things that maybe the team havent thought of and things more origanal as 2D artists tend to be more creative. It could have rules about not just posting fancy looking swords. I know there is a whole forum section full of art here that could potentialy be converted to 3D ingame use but there is no harm posting a pice of art in two places if it means sorting out the wheat from the chaff.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 07, 2007, 06:50:30 pm
The thing is, we are not likely to accept art that people have made before approaching us and discussing our need for it. We do have goals we want to reach, settings that must be obeyed. It's much easier to promise accepting contributions if we decide that we need it before you make it, rather than you making it when it wouldn't fit into the world at all (like some new NPC). If anyone wants a task, please approach us and we will try to find something for you to do - regardless of being a 2D or 3D artist.

If you approach me with a piece of art, I might go "That's not going to work at all" just as much as I might go "That's cool, it can it usable." Let the dev team dictate what contributors should work on for now :]
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 07, 2007, 07:15:42 pm
Well i wasnt thinking of somthing exactly like what we have now in the "What the team needs from you" but more of a fun project thing from which the developers could draw ideas and maybe even use some of the art, or maybe even alot as it would be geared towards things members of the community want to see ingame that can be somewhat origanal. Twas just an idea at any rate.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 07, 2007, 07:21:58 pm
Then the community members can start it themselves ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 07, 2007, 07:26:11 pm
/me Looks glumly at his post count 'maybe later'
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 10, 2007, 05:05:20 pm
@ kougaro:

Now I understand why Kimlorm wants to read Volume II! :D - Well done!
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 10, 2007, 05:21:57 pm
kougaro, I believe you shoud make also the volume II as i suppose it is simiar i gues.
/me wonders how the book is supposed to look, from some quest he doesn't hope to complete.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: peeg on May 10, 2007, 05:41:35 pm
kougaro, good job on the book so far!
Maybe the texture could look a bit more worn off because it's a book from the library that has goone through many hands.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: kougaro on May 10, 2007, 05:47:41 pm
Thank you, peeg  :)

I will see if i can improve the texture. Even though i'm not sure how i can make the book look more worn-off. Maybe the corners of the book should be damaged a bit?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: peeg on May 10, 2007, 05:56:41 pm
Some dirt on the booklet maybe?
I assume that books in Yliakum are wrapped with leather so maybe even some small scretches could fit.

The way your texture looks now it's just to clean for a public book in my opinion :) Take a look at rast's textures for example - he does the details very well.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 10, 2007, 06:24:33 pm
Nice work kougaro :)

But I do have a question on the texture page. What's going on in the bottom half of the sheet? It looks like a lot of space isn't used at all, and that's far from ideal for a game asset - every single pixel matters. You can overlap your UVs instead of having textures repeat. So for example you have the sides of the book (that show different pages) repeat three times - instead, overlap your UVs onto only one of these. The same goes for the large red "outlines" you have on the bottom portion of the t-page (texture page) - overlap the UVs onto the back side of the book, since that texture already has what you need. This way, not only do you save a lot of space, but you can increase the size of your texture and therefore increase the level of detail on the parts that matter.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: kougaro on May 10, 2007, 07:34:15 pm
Thanks Karyuu, will try to follow your advices :)

Btw, i thought about what you said for the UV map wasting space, thus lower resolution, but i couldn't manage to obtain a decent UV map (one that doesn't waste space, that is). I will try again, maybe it will work this time :)

And for the overlapping, i did not know it was possible, that seems really something interesting, thank you :)

P.S : i didn't find how to do the overlapping thingy, if you could tell me how to do it, or give me a link for a guide, it would be cool
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 10, 2007, 07:40:08 pm
Glad to help! Another piece of advice I'd like to share is: never allow your 3D application to decide how your UV map is going to look. Never settle for an automatic process/result - always go back in and manually tweak your UVs to maximize your use of nearly every centimeter of space. Your 3D application is just a tool: you're still the artist who has to make decisions for it :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on May 10, 2007, 09:48:54 pm
I think it's great work. Smart thinking on your part to make a nice big Roman 1 on the front cover...once you make the Volume II, they'll be easily distinguishable.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 10, 2007, 10:10:20 pm
P.S : i didn't find how to do the overlapping thingy, if you could tell me how to do it, or give me a link for a guide, it would be cool

I'm guessing you use Blender? I'm not familiar with how it works, unfortunately, as I work with 3ds max. But try to see if you can grab your UVs and move them around on the UV page. It's that simple in max, at least :)

After some searching, I found this tutorial (http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2255.asp) - which at a quick glance looks like it might be just the thing you need. If you're using another 3D application, mention its name and we'll try to help out.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Cherppow on May 10, 2007, 11:30:14 pm
Hi,

Overlap UVs: Yes, in Blender uv/image editor, toggle face select on with C-key. Select one, and move it with grab to overlap the wanted uv faces.

To kougaro: All in all pretty nice work, especially for your first work. I suggest you turn specularity off for the renders. Also, if possible, try lowering the screenshot image compression rate a bit.

*edit*

To kougaro: Ah, it's but a thumbnail! :) Sorry, my mistake, the pic is good. Hmm, now that I see it closer, I think the red areas could use some more detail, so they don't look so plain. Maybe you could add a base material image (eg. leather) as overlay over the current image. There are useable base textures in eg. imageafter.com (http://www.imageafter.com/). Good work, keep it up.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: kougaro on May 11, 2007, 12:51:09 am
Thank you Karyu and  Cherpow, i just suceeded at overlapping and modifying as i wish my uv map  :thumbup:

A new version of the book, as well as the second tome is coming  :)

@ Cherpow : will try to play a bit more with the rendering settings. As for the quality of the image, did you try to click on the image?  ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 11, 2007, 09:38:32 am
A hint for everyone trying to display good looking but small images:

There are a few tools which are able to compress JPEGs with adaptive quantization factors per block -- means: JPEGs are divided into (usually) 8x8 to 16x16 pixel blocks (depending on the "chroma subsampling" mode), and some tools are able to compress each block with a custom ratio, depending on the degree of details in it.

In my opinion, the old XAT JPEG Optimizer 3.15 is still a very useful tool (I prefer it at least for the preview and tweaking options). Unfortunately, I don't know widely used and available freeware which is able to do nearly the same...
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 18, 2007, 07:02:52 am
Come on, folks! :) Don't forget that we are depending on the community for these items - if you don't do them, they won't be in time the .020 release. We've given you an awesome chance to contribute to the game, and you don't have to be an amazing modeler (and therefore feel intimidated) to do this. I expected people to jump at this opportunity with full speed the moment it was announced. Don't disappoint us by showing apathy! If you want the ability to contribute to PlaneShift, you have to show us that you can do it.

Pick up the pace! ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 18, 2007, 10:03:19 pm
I thought the point of 'contributing' rather than joining the team is that we wouldn't be whipped :P But yeah, I guess i can give something a try.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 18, 2007, 10:11:36 pm
If you guys asked for a way to contribute, you better jump on it before we decide that you're too unreliable for us ;) We're a hobby project, but we still have deadlines. If you want to help the game progress, then help us do what needs doing. If this falls apart, then the next time I hear whining about "No way to submit art" I'll point to this thread as a reason.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 18, 2007, 11:25:10 pm
What's our deadline then? I wish i knew about it before.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 18, 2007, 11:25:51 pm
You have at the very least one more month.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 18, 2007, 11:38:31 pm
Do you say that what we did so far is wrong? Like we are disappointing you dear devs? We aren't in dev team because we aren't that talented/have not enough time/or unwanted because of some reasons.
Couldn't you just look what we did, and when trying to do new stuff, look at the list and see if it is there? If it is: weeeeeee! i can do something else, while it is already considered done! Amaizing! Or is this approach wrong?

Currently i'm busy with other tasks and mostly stressed by upcoming egzams, while i'm thinking about making two objects i just can't come up with something right and launch PSP. But in case of one i have one big problem, like with all the other btw. you said we should know the items from quests in game... Yeah, I suppose you know how i fell about NPCs understanding me. Basically the problem is i have no way to make the stuff really as it should, even if i'm capable.
For example if we are supposed to make a piece of papoer note. Is all what we know about it that it is paper note? Are all the other information considered ICly classified? Like we could get spoiled by knowing that the piece of paper is old, damaged, reused, or stuff like that?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 18, 2007, 11:47:42 pm
Do you say that what we did so far is wrong? Like we are disappointing you dear devs?

There is no need to be aggressive. If you aren't trying to be, then I apologize for misreading your words. I absolutely adore what I've seen so far - I think you guys have done an amazing job, so I am indeed discontent when I suddenly see the work stop. There have been so many complaints about a lack of ways to contribute, that when we give you one and people don't bite, you leave us both confused and irritated.

I do understand time limitations, I assure you. But from all the artists on this board, to not see even one new item model in a whole week is pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 19, 2007, 12:09:24 am
The first was just honest question, no aggression
Yeah, I can see you can be iritated, you did a lot of job to prepare it afterall.

But you can see my problems in the later part of the post, maybe something may be done at least about part of them, because i don't expect from someone to pass my exams lol ;D
I don't know maybe it is better to ask about details, in a place where only limited amount of people may know something what is the IC classified thing?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on May 19, 2007, 01:12:14 am
Quote
I don't know maybe it is better to ask about details, in a place where only limited amount of people may know something what is the IC classified thing?

Valid point. Karyuu, would it at least be possible to release the name of the quest in which each item can be found? That way they can do the quest and view the description themselves without getting spoilers in the forum.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 19, 2007, 01:15:29 am
If it's alright with the Settings team, it's alright here :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 19, 2007, 01:23:30 am
nah, i don't want a quest name, I just want details on the model.
Trust me, even if you give me quest name, it is highly probable i won't even get to a point where i get needed item ;P besides i  personally think it is too big spoiler.
What i had problems with is arther how the item exactly looks like. Maybe these informations are hidden well within the quests, but can't we know these simple things like paper color, its age and so on and so on ?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Feline Prince on May 19, 2007, 10:10:34 am
Maybe a reference picture for each one so we can get the gist?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: kougaro on May 19, 2007, 11:41:33 am
Hello,

so i made a new version, with better uv map, and i tried to give the texture a better look. What do you think of it?

(http://pix.nofrag.com/34/05/688798429a12ec29095fcb523cd3t.jpg) (http://pix.nofrag.com/34/05/688798429a12ec29095fcb523cd3.html)

P.S : and for those who want to know, it is possible to make perfect quality jpg from a png. When you export your image set the quality in the window that pop up to 100, then under "advanced options" in this window there is something with numbers like 2*2*2*1 or something, set this to 1*1*1*1.

EDIT : Nikodemus, yes you can get perfect quality jpeg, i tried it again and it worked. the reason the image you show me is not of perfect quality is because i didn't apply what i said to this image. If you still have doubt i can produce two image of the same thing, one in jpeg the other in png to show you they are the exact same. As you said, that is not very useful, but it can be done. Btw you seem to have very great idea to enhance this work, don't hesitate to use it and change it yourself, i won't copyright it  ;) .  If you want,i can send you the blender file and png texture.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 19, 2007, 12:09:05 pm
the covers look better.  The pages we look from a side is an interesting idea, but there is one problem. They look too new. Remember, that this book was once manufactured by hands, thus it is imposible for the pages to look so perfect, they would still look somewhat clean though. Later on it was used for a long time for sure. Hands are dirty, with pot, and everything we touch. The pages must reflect that. unfortunatelly i'm not sure if you can have the effect with the UV face layout in the way how you did it.

As about the jpg. It can't have perfect quality. It is impossible, no matter what options you use. Maybe you would have perfect quality, if there was zero compression, but then it is pointles, because it would be same as bitmat.
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/jpg.png)

Also, i would advice you to do your U map like this: The green is not used space, since we don't want to see the color of the pages on the red cover, when looking at the book at high angless. So i suppose the not used space should e from one side color of the pages and from other color of the cover.
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/jpguv.jpg)

EDIT: resize tool is doing fun stuff with images ;D look at which direction the page lines are on my image and in which direction they are o the original ;D
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 19, 2007, 02:04:58 pm
If you want sharp, detailed text in JPEGs ... do not use blue or red. They are stored in a lower resolution (see "Chroma Subsampling 4:2:0" in several sources about image and video compression). Use black or white, maybe green.

___


I almost made a "Rat fur hat", but I need someone who really knows Blender, to finish it and present it great-looking, according to lighting and camera placement (they are a pain for an unexperienced Blender user - I just can't get the scene bright enough, or the camere look at the object how I want it).

What I will provide:

- a 3D model (35 vertices, 41 faces, 2 objects)
- a partially transparent, UV mapped texture

What I need:

- a good looking scene
- if possible, setting 3 groups of faces being rendered smooth inside, but not to the neighbor groups?!
- one face may need to be doubled to show the same partially transparent texture from both sides

Anyone who is interested in finishing my first ever project with Blender, please send me a PM!

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/rathat_preview.gif)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on May 19, 2007, 03:37:18 pm
Quote
What i had problems with is arther how the item exactly looks like. Maybe these informations are hidden well within the quests, but can't we know these simple things like paper color, its age and so on and so on ?

The information isn't so much "hidden well within the quests" as available as an item description when you receive it in the quest. So once you get it, you can look at it and it'll tell you basically what it looks like. Unfortunately, some of these items are only in one-time quests so you get one chance to see them. :)

LigH, good for you trying the rat fur hat. Remember: two tails at the back, no eye. :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 19, 2007, 06:27:06 pm
Two tails?! ... Never heard of. Was that also included in a description of a reward for a quest I don't know?

Are they used to bind them under the chin?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: miadon on May 19, 2007, 06:29:14 pm
kougaro, is that the Georgian alphabet on that book? or is it just similar? :D
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on May 19, 2007, 07:09:19 pm
Two tails?! ... Never heard of. Was that also included in a description of a reward for a quest I don't know?

Are they used to bind them under the chin?

It's not a reward, it's an item to be given. And yes, in the quest you get your hands on it, can view it and take a look.

No, not to bind them under the chin. Just to hang down the back as a decoration like it was a coonskin cap.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 19, 2007, 09:19:25 pm
Well - so far my activities:

Blender modelling screenshot of wireframes (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/rathat_preview.png)
Blender render output, textured (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/rathat_preview.jpg)
UV mesh export (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/rathat_uv.png)

If someone could tell me how to zoom into a corner of the texture, and align UV areas at each others corners, then I could finally align the tail texture properly...

And the feather needs to be drawn transparently, and 2-sided.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: kougaro on May 19, 2007, 09:22:36 pm
@ Miadon : no, i just draw a bit randomly, so that it looks like some writing  :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: miadon on May 19, 2007, 09:30:51 pm
ok :D,
there is some real Georgian:
(http://www.geocities.com/shavlego/images/dictionary-frag1.gif)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Asraniel on May 20, 2007, 12:46:27 am
LigH: i like your hat, the idea is good, perhaps the fur thexture could be better, but the idea and the model are nice (even the fur texture, but there you could gain most)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 20, 2007, 08:57:30 am
The fur is not easy to see here ... possible that the hair is too short and too weavy, I can try to make it longer and straighter.
__

^ Updated 3D render; unfortunately, I am just not able to make it both well lighted and textured. Someone help me!

Texture map (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/rathat_tex.png) -- you can see here that the fur is really "fluffy". I just can't render that...
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 20, 2007, 10:46:35 am
Someone help me!
read your PM x)
Also it is a good idea to always strech your texture as less as possible. I have already idea about it, but i can really do nothing without a model, hopefully you work in blender.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 23, 2007, 10:38:57 am
Rast: I like it. But it would be boring to alk about thats great about it, so: ;)
- the green moss looks a bit to cheap, but from other side it makes the chest look more interesting. I think its just how it is done, although i don't know if  did it better myself.
- the pattern at the top. Didn't you just use round darkening brush? ;P Doesn't look really good, maybe if you prepared the shape before and making a selection from it you ould the pla with that darkening?
- Isn't the lock texture more detailed than the rest of the chest? It shouldn't be i think. If you make the texture space for it smaler, maybe you will also manage to ralign the rest form better space use n the texture. It is said that te less texture spae is not used, the better, it is partially true, because you always have to make the texture a bit beyond the UV borders, but all the remaning space is single color, and the compression is there to compress it.
I just don't think there is a lot of loss when a lot of texture space is not used. Although minimal, skilled artists should try to avoid it.
-Maybe it s subiective, but i would "clarify" the who texture a bit and then changed contrast/brightness a bit like 7/-1

Bastiq: I wouldn't even hope this will go in game, sorry ;P you have a lot to learn, like smoothing, real texture making, and more efficient use of faces (faces are triangle to take advantage of it, not to turn them into quads, just because it is simpler ;))
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Baldur on May 23, 2007, 12:08:57 pm
Ligh: You might try adding some dark areas which follow the white hairs, like shadows. Fluffy hairs often don't lie on top of each other, they're usually pointing slightly upwards in small tufts, groups of hair.

Hope that might've helped a bit, not completely black but small, discrete shades.

Edit: Looking at it again, not that many shades. I see you've already got some :]
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 23, 2007, 12:13:06 pm
Baldur, the texture itself already has a rather high contrast ... but I don't know by hell why the Blender 3D display shows it all dark and brownish, and the Blender internal raytracer does not display any texture at all.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Bastiq on May 23, 2007, 06:23:41 pm
Bastiq: I wouldn't even hope this will go in game, sorry ;P you have a lot to learn, like smoothing, real texture making, and more efficient use of faces (faces are triangle to take advantage of it, not to turn them into quads, just because it is simpler ;))

Agreed. I'm working on improving it right now. Nothing complex but better looking and fewer faces.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: rast on May 23, 2007, 07:41:19 pm
Thanks for the pointers Nikodemus :)
I'll have a go at some point re-doing some of the texture/uv map. It only really occured to me after i'd posted it that i'd left the strange pattern on top on it, so i'll definately try to get rid of it/improve it.

Edit:
Got a new texture, though i haven't had enough time to do anything major with it:
(http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9449/lockboxat4.th.png) (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lockboxat4.png)


@LigH
looks great :)

cheers,
rast
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: ThomPhoenix on May 24, 2007, 12:12:58 am
Bastiq, don't forget to make a proper icon for your Crystal Ring. The current Crystal Ring uses the icon from the Iron Ring. If your contribution doesn't include both a 3d model and an icon, it won't be accepted.

And moderators, forgive my unbelievable daring by posting this message in the contribution thread first. The horror when I realized what I had done!
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on May 24, 2007, 12:19:00 am
I would also give some advice to Bastiq:

First make sure that you are only using one texture sheet - all your textures for one object should be one image, and not separate pieces. Also, don't use flat colors. A texture is a work of art, so treat it the same :) It is not enough to just fill a space with yellow and call it gold, and a grey fill does not a crystal make. You have to go in and create a texture - which is a tactile quality, a feel. You have to know what surface the object would have just by looking at it.

Also, smooth your faces so that the item looks like one continuous object instead of being broken up into polygons as it is now. If you follow these suggestions, you will have a truly beautiful model.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: ThomPhoenix on May 24, 2007, 12:21:50 am
Indeed. Example:
(http://www.zookingdom.com/ahg/gold_texture.jpg)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Bastiq on May 24, 2007, 09:15:19 am
Thanks for all these suggestions. :)
Actually i've been working on a med ring since about 2 hours after i posted that last one, but are having some problems. I hope that i get something that looks good soon. :)

Also there is a icon on that image. Just below the text to the right.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 25, 2007, 08:29:47 am
Because a good friend asked how I make my icons, I decided to tell you how you could do it e.g. in The GIMP.

Let's assume you have an image in a good looking resolution, like a 3D render result, preferably on a deep black background.

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon001.jpg)

You will want to have it in the center of the icon, therefore I recommend to "exempt" the interesting part (on a unicolor background you could use the "Autocrop Image" function), and - after setting the background color to "black" - change the canvas size afterwards to a square with the length of the longer side plus about 10%. In GIMP, you will have to resize all layers while changing the canvas, and center the image before resizing.

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon002.jpg) => (http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon003.jpg)



Now, we add the Alpha channel to the image layer!



Then it is time for the "Magic Wand". We will usually select by Composite, with edge smoothing, and a low threshold. We select the blackness around the object of interest ...

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon004.jpg)

... and then we would want to select not sharply and exactly all blackness around the object, but rather smoothly, blurred -- because we want to get a kind of "black glow".

What if we would blur the selection inwards right now? -- Then we would get a black glow around the object, and also a black glow around the whole image itself. Bad idea.

Instead, let's do a little trick:

- invert the selection (that selects the object only)
- grow the selection smoothly (*)
- invert the selection again

(*) Better image editors may be able to manipulate the selection itself like a layer already.
Quote
The GIMP 2.3 seems not to provide this feature, so we have to use the "Quick mask" after inverting the selection, and growing it by ~10 pixels. (Menu: Selection - Enable/disable Quick Mask -- or the button in the bottom left corner of the image window.)

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon005.jpg)

In the "Layers, Channels, Paths..." toolbar, switch to the "Layers" tab, and select the Quick Mask. Then apply a Gaussian blur with a radius of 2 times the selection growth amount.

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon006.jpg)

Then we can disable the Quick Mask.


Now we invert the selection back to the outer area, and press the "Delete" key on the keyboard...

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon007.jpg)

Deselect everything, a final scale to 64×64 pixels, save as PNG (in GIMP: do not check "interlacing" - and "save colors from transparency" may not be necessary), and voila: Our icon is available.

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/howtoicon.png)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Cherppow on May 25, 2007, 12:53:44 pm
Hi,

Nice guide LigH, I've never thought that it's better to make the black border shade before resizing. How silly of me. I'm going to be using this. :)

And to add little content to this post:
Good news for Blender modelers who struggle with textures. Drawing static shadows just got easier.

1. Model an object. Here's my test mesh.
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/bake_render00.png)


2. Assign a new image to it in the UV/Image editor. Then select Render - Bake Render Meshes - Ambient Occlusion, from the User preferences header.
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/bake_render01.png)


3. The render takes a while, and will draw nice ambient shadows for your texture. Remember to save the resulting image from UV/Image editor.
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/bake_render03.png)
(don't mind my basic uv-map)


4. Here's a render with the above texture applied.
(http://users.tkk.fi/~vrantapu/PlaneShift/BlenderHelp/bake_render02.png)


You still need to make a real texture by hand, but can use the ambient shadow image over it, say with "hard light" mix mode. Try it, and use it if you like. Have funnies. :)
- Cherps
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Baldur on May 26, 2007, 12:30:19 am
/me goes to download the latest version of Blender

Great guide, Ligh! Though I prefer drawing freehand I consider it a great alternative on those lazy days :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on May 31, 2007, 12:11:39 am
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/sealed_report.png)

What ya think?

Any ideas what sealed report should also have?
Since paper is twosided (what a discovery ;D) there should be some letters from one side at least, any ideas what kind and where?
The area of the paper is close to A4 format.
Some other ideas?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on May 31, 2007, 08:23:32 am
A taste of things to come (http://www.ligh.de/tmp/Taste.ogg): I'm working on the "Crystal Ring". So far a high-resolution mesh:


(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/ring_preview.png)


I hope to find a way later to reduce the triangle count -- if necessary, and where it doesn't hurt too much.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Baldur on May 31, 2007, 09:46:36 am
Great job both :D

Nikodemus, perhaps if the letters were to be placed closer to the seal on the upperside of the paperroll. One, or a couple, of words on each side of the seal. Might be an even better idea if placed on the red ribbon...

Indeed, Ligh, you need to tune those triangles down :]
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 01, 2007, 02:04:00 pm
Baldur, so the red ribborn will cover few letters? i like it
I suppose there should be informations like:
- what it is
- where bring it
- something more?

what kind of font you think i should use? (this is a question more to devs, coz they may know the style of PS a bit better)
the becker-m.ttf from ps maybe?
Ruritania? (http://www.dafont.com/ruritania.font)

It will be written with a feather obviously, but the style should fit PS too. How people of Yliakum write like?

I can remember playing morrowind, that there everything had style of these high and sharp at the bottom runes, this was good for the unique experience for this precise world.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 01, 2007, 03:57:28 pm
My opinion: Look at the signposts. Are they readable? How do they look like?

The "native" writing system may be unreadable to the human players. It simply doesn't need to be.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 01, 2007, 04:46:05 pm
true, from other side, the books are in english

and still, I would be happy to know which kind of font should i use, which symbols. The singpost looks like Cherppow was drawing a line with paint brush tool ;P I can imagine there are loads of different languages, at least one for each race, but I gues i'm asking for the common one.

Or I should leave the whole thing as it is?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 03, 2007, 10:56:17 am
You could still get inspired by "Tommy of Escondido's Alien Fonts Page"...
___


Unfortunately, I have no idea how to reduce the triangle count after creating the model. So it still has 640. What a shame...

I heard about the "retopo" tool, but I don't know how it works.

(http://www.ligh.de/pics/PSCB/crystal-ring_render.jpg)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Asraniel on June 03, 2007, 05:44:00 pm
that ring is small, so you will never see it with much detail. so create a lowpoly version of it, it does not have to be perfectly round like now, for something as small as a ring a hexaton (? five sides.. ) could be enough, or one with 6 sides. you can use the highpoly version to make invetory icon.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 03, 2007, 06:21:04 pm
That will in general mean to make a completely new model ... and to align the UV maps again. So time consuming...
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 03, 2007, 07:21:27 pm
You will spend a few minutes creating a new ring, and hours agonizing over how to reduce the polycount from the larger version ;) Don't create a high-poly model and then think to lower it. Start creating with the poly limit in mind, and then you'll avoid running into these sort of problems.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 04, 2007, 08:49:57 pm
So I did. :D
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 06, 2007, 07:37:19 am
I'd like to try to make more items. But I am partially confused, and partially lacking information (hey, I have unlimited access to internet only on weekends, and I would also need to know how to get the related quest to read the details about the item).

Saria Dunwallow’s Word -- Did you mean "sword"? And which details must I know? (remember the "Y")

Yliakum Common for Gobbles -- What is it, like a contract? Too many related but different translations...

Purple Goujah Fur -- What is special about it? Are Goujahs bigger than Tefusangs? Or much slimmer? Or have long hair?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: toxic3 on June 06, 2007, 08:02:32 am
Saria Dunwallow’s Word -- Did you mean "sword"?

For my understanding this is another letter or seal. 3 NPC give this item to you in this quest, they say "Take this seal as a token of my word.", "Here's my word; it's my bond." and "Take my seal."
I hope this is not a spoiler.

Quote
Yliakum Common for Gobbles -- What is it, like a contract? Too many related but different translations...

That's something like a dictionary or schoolbook to learn the common Yliakum language.

Quote
Purple Goujah Fur -- What is special about it? Are Goujahs bigger than Tefusangs? Or much slimmer? Or have long hair?

I don't know. But from another thread:
Quote
It's mentioned in the character creation, but no where else. What is a goujah?

Goujah is a sort of pack animal, used as beasts of burden, to pull carts and winch wheels, among other things. Goujahs can be sheared for fur but are never killed for meat, for utilitarian reasons. Soon enough you will know more.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 06, 2007, 08:14:04 am
That's something like a dictionary or schoolbook to learn the common Yliakum language.

Many thanks - now I understand the relation of "common".

And I have to add a question: Is it verbosely a "book", made of paper? That would be not very useful in the wet sewers. It should be washable. So if allowed, I'd like to think about different materials.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: toxic3 on June 06, 2007, 08:24:03 am
And I have to add a question: Is it verbosely a "book", made of paper? That would be not very useful in the wet sewers. It should be washable. So if allowed, I'd like to think about different materials.
Hehe, i don't know if this make the book waterproof, but there is some "Magic" on this book, so why not. :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 06, 2007, 09:25:19 am
I think noone is going to make a book resilient to water, because someone could take it to sewers ;) It's book as any other, paper or leather with ink. And there may be some protecting magic, who knows.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Baldur on June 06, 2007, 12:15:19 pm
How about a book completely made out of leather, its' scribings engraved through firemarking. In my opinion, Gobbles are intelligent enough to have discovered fire and, who knows, the metal pieces could have been forged or stolen from Yliakian settlements.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 06, 2007, 01:32:17 pm
Gobbles made the book? ;o
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Baldur on June 06, 2007, 01:37:02 pm
Coming to think of it, maybe they didn't.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on June 06, 2007, 07:18:11 pm
LigH, the goujah fur is supposed to be a small bundle (about a double handful,) not a whole hide. One is dyed purple, the other is natural.

It looks good, though; maybe we can hang on to the former as a "goujah hide" when the time comes :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 06, 2007, 07:21:29 pm
Great ... It would have been helpful to know all that before I start modelling...
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on June 06, 2007, 09:53:24 pm
Great ... It would have been helpful to know all that before I start modelling...

Quote from: Karyuu
As you can see, many of these items come from quests. So to really do them justice, you will probably have to be familiar with the NPCs and stories involved.

Sorry :(
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 06, 2007, 11:07:20 pm
If I was able to play more often than a few hours a week, probably. But technical issues -- and a hillarious and community-splitting quest nesting (I'm trying for several months now to get the winch key and could not yet make it through the jungle) -- don't allow me to do much I am neither a power-leveler, nor a power-quester. Just a part-time player.
__

Okay - I added a fur patch. Rather minimalistic this time.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 10, 2007, 06:59:48 pm
Hey, Wired_Crawler - did we awake you? :D

Boy, interesting concept. And the crystals reflect and refract really pretty.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Wired_Crawler on June 11, 2007, 03:29:05 pm
Hi, LigH.

Hey, Wired_Crawler - did we awake you? :D

:sleeping:
Mmmm... kind of... .
 :flowers:

I read:
Feel free to use this as a fun means of competing with one another. And have fun in general :D

I can't miss next competition ;)
And I want to give you all a reason to improve your skills ;).

Greetings.

P.S. This place has changed in last several months...
LigH, You did double posting and any moderator have not reacted yet ::|

;D
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on June 11, 2007, 05:23:11 pm
Uhm, well ... Posting again after more than a day is not "double posting" anymore! :P
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 11, 2007, 06:52:26 pm

I read:
Feel free to use this as a fun means of competing with one another. And have fun in general :D

I can't miss next competition ;)
And I want to give you all a reason to improve your skills ;).

haha!
I literaly loled reading that ;D That was both tought and funny.

yeah... we can all learn from you, I woudn't make the ring better and it is exactly how i imagined it, well maybe with a single diamond. Good choice of faces layout too!
I'm sure Gag will learn a lot from it too ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: rast on June 11, 2007, 07:10:56 pm
@Wired_crawler
Your moddeling skills/texturing skills/Ring looks as excelent as ever :D

Make sure you don't post too much of you stuff, you gotta give the rest of us a chance ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 11, 2007, 09:01:53 pm
rather just post stuf not already done ;P
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Wired_Crawler on June 12, 2007, 12:10:30 am
Aha!
I have managed to wake up a spirit of competition!
Good. ;D

Belive me, guys, destroying your fun is the last thing I want. I can even make the following statement:

"My works can be used only if no acceptable alternatives are chosen."

It was official :).

Anyway, it is highly possible, that my ring does not suit PlaneShift style, so there is no reason to start evasive manoeuvres :S. The fact You like it does not mean it would be accepted by Devs.

I haven't made anything else yet and I don't know, when I will have time for modeling (it will be rather sooner then later). Hmmm... Because deadline is still unknown, I think I won't wait until the last minute, so... :detective:.

Things which could encourage me to make my versions of already presented works are: too high poly count, too big texture, too much wasted uv space (all IMO, and as you can see I pay attention to technical, not artistic aspects). Another reason can be simple: "I just want to make it for fun" :).

Yes, currently I think about items which were not presented yet. It does not mean I want you to leave them for me (or anybody else). If you only have time and will - give everybody a reason to compete ;). We want to learn 3d modeling and (above all) a pretty looking game, not our names on credits list, right :) ?

Cheers.

P.S.
Uhm, well ... Posting again after more than a day is not "double posting" anymore! :P

 :o Maybe I should read all stickies in "Rules" and "Newbies" forums again ?...

Edited to immortalize:

(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7518/nikorw6.jpg)

Nice number, Nikodemus.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 16, 2007, 04:48:44 pm
Edited to immortalize:

(http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7518/nikorw6.jpg)

Nice number, Nikodemus.
/me attempts to eat it... but finds out he alredy did ;P
Anyway, i'm on a straight way to forum addict, pray on my addicted soul ;P

hm ho I have a serious matter about.... transparency ;D
How do i make it work properly in CS?
All i can get with these proporties:
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/transp-csprop.png)
is this:
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/transp-cs.png)
The texture is partially transparrent where the png is, but
how the faces are visible is completly messed up! CS draw different faces in a random order. Faces which are close to you should be completly visible and should cover these, which are behind. On this screenie this rule is nonexistant.

So i tried to make it work in blender (well if it wont work in cs, this kind of means my model is invalid... but i hope someone is able to actually make it work ok. ) i found a tutorial:
and came up with this: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Tutorials/Textures/Use_Alpha_for_Object_Transparency
(http://psgrafika.republika.pl/transp-blender.png)
Why the heck it can't work? It indeed see the partiall transparency at the edges of the paper, but if something is also grey/dark, it becomes also partially transparrent... bah and where it is transparrent, instead of showing what is behind, it show the background.

How do we make it work right?
 3dmax to cs exporter works better?
I'm in a dead end x)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 16, 2007, 06:00:41 pm
Just to add a note in case I haven't mentioned this before, avoid using double-sided polys. PlaneShift does not handle them well, so each side needs its own individual set of polygons. I'm not sure whether this is an issue for anyone (...yet?) but it needs to be stated :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 16, 2007, 06:18:43 pm
So duplicate the mesh and flip its normals?

I'm still concerned what should i do aout the transparency problem. 
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 16, 2007, 07:08:50 pm
So duplicate the mesh and flip its normals?

Yep! :) Unfortunately I'm not sure about the transparency issue, but you don't have to make this item that nifty. An opaque item is just fine.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Wired_Crawler on June 16, 2007, 07:22:15 pm
Option "twosided" in b2cs menu works exactly like this: during export it automagically duplicates faces and flips normals while retaining uv map. However, it causes (or was causing) problems with lighting in CS, opposite faces cast shadows on each other, although they should not do it. So - better and more predictable effects can be achieved by duplicating faces manually and pushing them away from each other a little bit.

I'm not sure, what is Your problem with transparency. Options in b2cs gui don't affect the way a model is displayed in Blender. For this to work you need to go to "uv face select" mode and push button "alpha" on "texture face" tab, do it for each face wich has texture with transparency information.
Still, in Blender's 3D workspace transparency glitches always appear (at least for me). Renders should look OK though. Also try to play with button "ZTransp" in material settings.

Setting priority and zmode for items will not help at all, because those settings in CS affect objects, and you are supposed to produce factories (libraries), which then will be used to create objects placed in the world by game engine, and this is the game engine, which will decide what will be priority, mixmode, zmode etc... However, by preparing material in proper way you can get good results - find in b2cs gui (material menu, section: texture) option "binary" and set it to true (I think it was called texture_binary in older versions of b2cs). This usually gives best results with transparency in CS (although it does not help with translucent textures).

BTW: question for Karyuu: will those object be of type sprite3d or genmesh ? Or maybe something else is planned ?

One more comment about transparency in CS - it often works unreliable and unpredictably and it is hard (or even impossible) to make an separate object which would always look good in CS :P. So don't worry too much, I hope that the new CS renderer will deal better with that.

Edit:
Note about using "twoside" option: remeber, that model after export will have 2x more triangles than shown in Blender.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 16, 2007, 07:35:49 pm
BTW: question for Karyuu: will those object be of type sprite3d or genmesh ? Or maybe something else is planned ?

They will be converted to the sprite3D format.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 17, 2007, 12:10:08 am
I'm not sure, what is Your problem with transparency. Options in b2cs gui don't affect the way a model is displayed in Blender.
I wasn't trying to have effect on blender render by setting blend2cs properties xD what made you think so? x)
For this to work you need to go to "uv face select" mode and push button "alpha" on "texture face" tab, do it for each face wich has texture with transparency information.
Still, in Blender's 3D workspace transparency glitches always appear (at least for me). Renders should look OK though. Also try to play with button "ZTransp" in material settings.
Yeah, there are glitches and it has no effect on render, so if in my workspace i see transparency, render wont have it. Thanx for telling how to see it in the workspace though :)
I couldn't find "ZTransp" in material settings.
Setting priority and zmode for items will not help at all, because those settings in CS affect objects, and you are supposed to produce factories (libraries), which then will be used to create objects placed in the world by game engine, and this is the game engine, which will decide what will be priority, mixmode, zmode etc... However, by preparing material in proper way you can get good results - find in b2cs gui (material menu, section: texture) option "binary" and set it to true (I think it was called texture_binary in older versions of b2cs). This usually gives best results with transparency in CS (although it does not help with translucent textures).
By setting zmode, it see the partial transparency (you call it translucent) It's a shame it doesnt work well with complicated meshes (it would work alright for 2d plane of window i gues (dirty, so worse transparent at edges and better in the middle))
Thanx for reminding me about that binary transparency. It works well, only no partial transparency. I gues i can now make a presetating post...



Edit:
Note about using "twoside" option: remeber, that model after export will have 2x more triangles than shown in Blender.
I'm not that stupid ;) I actually put big efford to the efficiency and wouldnt miss something so big ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 17, 2007, 12:39:00 pm
Nikodemus: Very nice presentation :)

*edit*

Although... 1024x128 texture? I hope there's a typo in there somewhere..! You might also want to add a soft black outer glow to the icon.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 17, 2007, 12:54:19 pm
Nikodemus: Very nice presentation :)

*edit*

Although... 1024x128 texture? I hope there's a typo in there somewhere..! You might also want to add a soft black outer glow to the icon.
No typo. Such a texture is same as 256x512 or 512x256 and this is allowed ;) In the end what really matters is solely the file size, but yeah dimensions is some indicator.
Also, the ico has a soft black outer glow ;D Maybe too soft?


I been wondering for sme time, should we attach to each presentation the .obj file and the texture? Or if accepted we will be asked for them?

EDIT:
Oh, i can remember the cap to be 512x512, now i see it 128x128. So the texture is going to be scalled down, what a pity.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on June 17, 2007, 01:08:54 pm
Well... the problem with a 1024x128 texture is if you scale the large side down to 256, which is the most it's going to be, you're going to lose a ton of the detail you've put into that 1024 dimension. Unless I'm simply not understanding how you've laid out your texture page.

If your item is the one we like the best, we will ask you for the .obj at that time :)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 17, 2007, 03:58:56 pm
Yeah, it will look like this:
(http://crimsonorder.freepgs.com/things/pauril_sealed_report_present256.png)
;)
Size at which it should be looked at and when you dont see pixelation effect ;)

It is phisically impossible to put more detail nto this ;) not a big loss.

EDIT The funny part is if i did it 128x128 there would be no more details ;P because with current layout it is tiled in a specific way, if you can see it from the UV map screenie i did.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on June 20, 2007, 03:06:50 pm
Karyuu, does Harnquist Assurace Letter need a mesh?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Keldrena on July 12, 2007, 02:51:35 am
http://lww.demon-host.com/index.php


OT: That site isn't working for me. Sucks because I remember Laanx Wheel Of Wishes and it was really useful. Did the site move?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on August 04, 2007, 10:39:13 pm
Hey there dudes and dudettes,

The What The Team Needs From You thread is going to be closed for the first round in four weeks, on September 1. The "round" deal works like this: Since not all items have been created, we are going to choose between what you guys put together so far, and those items are going to go off the list. The remainder will be left up for another month (round two), and probably a bit more (deadlines will be posted way in advance). So if you are still interested, get as much in as you can so we can shorten what's needed.

Thanks for everything already!
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on August 16, 2007, 12:39:43 am
Nikodemus: Remember that PlaneShift does not use double-sided faces. If a face is meant to show up in the game, it must have its own individual polygon. PS doesn't use 2-sided materials.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on August 16, 2007, 12:47:15 am
duplicate, flip normals and done ;)

That in case someone was wrong that it is exactly what happens when you add a property doublesided and export.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Jeraphon on August 20, 2007, 08:05:39 pm
Nikodemus, I like the idea of a sealed message bearing a seal of Laanx or whatever, but not on Murago's - he's a priest of Talad, not Laanx.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on August 20, 2007, 08:29:09 pm
oh, hey, you are right ;P
I don't know why I been thinking otherwise, haha

Could you pm me or something a Talad symbol? I will change it.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on August 20, 2007, 08:36:16 pm
You are not the first asking for one... ;)
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Karyuu on September 06, 2007, 12:25:40 am
Heya guys,

Things have come up, unfortunately, and I'm not able to find the time to kidnap any of the assets you guys have created so far. This is good news for you, because you have the deadline extended :) I'll do my best to give this full attention in another two weeks or so, let's say on the 22nd of September. Apologies in the meantime.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 11, 2007, 05:37:16 pm
hi, me again. i wanna make a pretty good portfolio for game modeling and texturing, and i'd like to ask some of you guys that work here where could i find a good tutorial about this field, something that covers a wider area...
better yet, could someone write/show me where i can find some technical informations about the game mechanics and stuff. i'm looking for things such as, no. of polys per character/volume, what types of maps does your engine supports, what engine are you using, how could someone test an object in it and other things like this.
i've read some of the stuff you guys write here and i think you should be more open to the public, and show them they are making a real difference for this game, cos the game currently runs very slow(all you have to do is read the news section). and, since i'm in the contributions discussion thread, may i suggest two options for the leading team here at PS: i think you should really find some money and pay a professional game designer to work for you, or at least give you some direction or ask the community to do a little creativity test and then ask the winners to come up with a better design for the game. you fellows try to reinvent the wheel. i think you do that because you're trying to be original, but let me tell you, the wheel has been invented and it's not the time to bring a new one to life. if you want me to go further with the game design theory let me know.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 18, 2007, 04:59:34 pm
still w8-ing for some statistics about the meshes in-game and textures used and stuff..
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Caarrie on September 18, 2007, 05:27:26 pm
still w8-ing for some statistics about the meshes in-game and textures used and stuff..

did you happen to read the main thread? it is all there http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28502.0
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 19, 2007, 06:00:53 pm
i was hoping for something else. i read that, that's for beginers, not for those trying to get in the PlaneShift developing team. i need something more specific regarding buildings and game characters. i think i'll send an email  :-\
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Caarrie on September 19, 2007, 07:09:52 pm
i was hoping for something else. i read that, that's for beginers, not for those trying to get in the PlaneShift developing team. i need something more specific regarding buildings and game characters. i think i'll send an email  :-\

If you want to join the team you need to apply http://laanx.fragnetics.com/nexus/newapplicant.php
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 19, 2007, 09:34:22 pm
thanks again, Caarrie but i've seen that form too :D
BUT, i can't apply to the team without a strong portfolio regarding game modeling and texturing. so what i want to do now is to specialize in this field. i'm a high poly modeler fan, and a 3d generalist. anyway, i'll find out what i need by other means.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on September 19, 2007, 09:59:08 pm
If you can not be a developer by not matching the expectations (like me), you can still be a contributor.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 19, 2007, 10:16:05 pm
Proglin, have you received my pm's ?
i can't seem to be able to send a pm : ??? i mean i write it and press send but i see no message in the outbox or anything indicating that the message was sent :|
anyway, for a hobbyist, being a contributor is more than enough. still i want the real deal and i'm ready to learn&work for it.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: LigH on September 20, 2007, 07:44:51 am
Did you check "[X] Save a copy in my outbox"?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: geostik on September 20, 2007, 03:48:30 pm
no, thanks for the tip. never seen this thing used anywhere else. saw the checkbox but thought it's something else.
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: Nikodemus on October 02, 2007, 01:36:28 pm
I wonder, what is going to happen now with all the "contributions"?
Title: Re: Contribution Discussion
Post by: neko kyouran on October 02, 2007, 11:47:02 pm
22nd of September has come and gone.  Deadline is past.  Thanks to all those that took part.