PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: cyber on May 06, 2007, 08:32:32 pm
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Now we all know the "Remember to be IC"
Well that is all fine and dandy I have nothing agains Role-Playing however there are a LARGE majority of RP Nazis that actually detract from the game more then the occasional "Ima brb im hungry" by not saying "[Ima brb im hungry]". Now common ppl give me a break. I spend a decent amount of time in this game and generally im a bag guy, member of The Outlaws and such ect. It ALL fits my character, im not generally mean however there is the occasional time when someone has pissed me off that I am. (which is completely IC or do medieval ppl not get mad?)
Now I ask myself the question how can a person be a bad guy in a game where if you are you are considered OOC and burned at the stake? There is a reason that I spend a lot of time NOT talking to anyone except in guild chat, and in fact i generaly ignore general chat altogether because im not about ready to say "Oh fair maiden how goes thee fair day" no im a gruff nasty old dwarf I say "hello" now while "hello" is not generally considered an OOC thing to say the following "What you up to?" has had me flogged, beat'n, entrails spilled, and generally nasty things done to me for that.
Now people ask yourself sitting there at your computer what is this, a game?
Yes there is nothing wrong with IC and Role-Play and someone saying "Dude i got so wasted at school today" will even set me on them because that is a DEFINATE OOC comment however in the event that an comment can even possibly be IC don't maim them with "Remember the Role-Play"'s
Now I am sure I will be burned at the stake for this post however this IS a problem and no-one seems to care.
Just remember that Role-Play does not mean "Role play a good guy" it means be "In-Character" and evil people should not be prosicuted in a GAME for being a bad person, because in real-life there are bad people as well.
I conclude if you want a "Role-Play a good guy" game go look at Pacifistshift and leave us alone at Planeshift.
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Now we all know the "Remember to be IC"
Well that is all fine and dandy I have nothing agains Role-Playing however there are a LARGE majority of RP Nazis that actually detract from the game more then the occasional "Ima brb im hungry" by not saying "[Ima brb im hungry]". Now common ppl give me a break. I spend a decent amount of time in this game and generally im a bag guy, member of The Outlaws and such ect. It ALL fits my character, im not generally mean however there is the occasional time when someone has pissed me off that I am. (which is completely IC or do medieval ppl not get mad?)
Now I ask myself the question how can a person be a bad guy in a game where if you are you are considered OOC and burned at the stake? There is a reason that I spend a lot of time NOT talking to anyone except in guild chat, and in fact i generaly ignore general chat altogether because im not about ready to say "Oh fair maiden how goes thee fair day" no im a gruff nasty old dwarf I say "hello" now while "hello" is not generally considered an OOC thing to say the following "What you up to?" has had me flogged, beat'n, entrails spilled, and generally nasty things done to me for that.
Now people ask yourself sitting there at your computer what is this, a game?
Yes there is nothing wrong with IC and Role-Play and someone saying "Dude i got so wasted at school today" will even set me on them because that is a DEFINATE OOC comment however in the event that an comment can even possibly be IC don't maim them with "Remember the Role-Play"'s
Now I am sure I will be burned at the stake for this post however this IS a problem and no-one seems to care.
Just remember that Role-Play does not mean "Role play a good guy" it means be "In-Character" and evil people should not be prosicuted in a GAME for being a bad person, because in real-life there are bad people as well.
I conclude if you want a "Role-Play a good guy" game go look at Pacifistshift and leave us alone at Planeshift.
:whistling: Ehmm, I kinda alrady knew that a loooooooooong time ;D
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some people do and some dont but no-one does anything about it
I have never heard someone say "actually (insert name) that was IC"
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some people do and some dont but no-one does anything about it
I have never heard someone say "actually (insert name) that was IC"
??? How do you mean?
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When was the last time someone got reprimanded for saying "be in character"?
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When was the last time someone got reprimanded for saying "be in character"?
I never say that, although I usually say something like {please use ][ for ooc talk]
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That is fine but think about hearing that 500000 times a day it really bugs after awile
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Just remember that Role-Play does not mean "Role play a good guy" it means be "In-Character" and evil people should not be prosicuted in a GAME for being a bad person, because in real-life there are bad people as well.
I feel I should start my post from a completely diferent matter, but you'll have to pardon me on this one, seeing as this is just too hard to resist:
Yes! In real life there are bad people as well. And in similar manner as well are they prosecuted for being "evil". More or less that's why you have jails. You're actually making arguments against yourself. What happens when someone sticks out of what would be perceived as "average" member of a society? He would have fingers pointed at him. If he speaks differently than others, this is what will happen. If you decide to use modern language, additionally with no respect for actual grammar ("What are you up to", not "What you up to"), this is what is going to happen.
Now going to what I should start with: Your post makes absolutely no sense. You go on about how people pick on you for speaking in one way and not another, and then you switch to something about "evil" characters. Is that supposed to make any sense? Is evil character by definition one that speaks in weird dialect? I really don't see why culprit cannot speak in any way other people would. Rogue can be well mannered just as well as he can have tongue of a blacksmith or brain of a common peasant. Alignment has nothing to say here. You can role-play ill-bred character that doesn't do well with other people, but you don't indicate the above with "What you up to?"
I won't say you have no right to complain. Sure, pointing fingers at your role-play may be too harsh. However, only to some point. You should look after how your character speaks so that you don't annoy other people. Try to stay away from slangy'ish language (not only obvious like 'yo'). If you want to give some character to your speech, actually work on it. Good intentions alone won't cover all that is needed to be done in that direction. You can actually butch the grammar there if you want (just avoid sounding awkward), so long as you don't try to sound modern.
For example you can replace "What are you doing?" with "What do they?" and no one should complain. Though if you decide to do it, better make people familiar with your speech all the way. If you'll just switch between normal and self-generated, you may confuse others.
Now what I have to say is, my Planeshift career didn't actually "evolve" during CB. It did during early MB, where it was completely okay to use modern speech. But even so, it does sound pretty dull when you hang around people that at least use normal English, and suddenly you see someone who obviously doesn't care. That's how I see it when playing Planeshift today. Also, that's how the community is. People are much more familiar to usage of normal and varieties of non-modern language so you'll seem awfully out of place if you do otherwise. At least try to avoid it.
P.S. "How be ye!" sounds oh so much more dwarfish than "hello" :P
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I have to take issue with you somewhat Draklar, for one thing if you want to go into archaic speech patterns you pretty much have to throw out any attempt at goog grammar and pronunciation as the vast majority of the people at the time were illiterate and only knew what was spoken in their hamlet and possibly the next or if they were extremely lucky the market town twenty miles away.
Implied verbs and other words left unexpressed is not a modern invention. Certainly modern street talk is inappropriate but none of it came from nothing and a lot of it has ancient antecedents.
What the heck is "What do they?" supposed to mean? What'cha doin wit that? Not everyone has to sound like they just stepped out of "Wuthering Heights." Some people want to play the cultured elite that is fine they should be outnumbered by the uncultured and if they want to complain about it they should do it in character and that is all. Now talking about things genuinely out of the game context is a different matter apart from "dialect" or the "vernacular."
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well Draklar I will agree that he left put a space.i know "cyber" and he told me what he meant.people say hes "ooc" when he kills /annoys them. that is the space he left out. that is also what he means by people calling him ooc when hes actaully not and about being a bad guy.so im with "cyber" on this one.dont start all this bs about some one being "ooc" when they are actually "ic". :thumbup: nice post cyber.(im not gonna put up ur game name w/o ur permission).and by the way, im a fellow outlaw guild member.and by the way all u annoying people obsessed w/ everyone "roleplaying" how are you so sure ppl even talked like that? so burn me at the stake along with "cyber"
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As for the expectations of Draklar and others... I understand where you're coming from, but I think people can be a bit harsh too.
I think considering the scope of this game's audience (geographically speaking)... if someone can construct sentences in English that are perfectly legible as English (and without modern slang) ... they should be cut a little slack if they're not using "thou" or "ye" instead of "you", etc. -- Sure encouragement is good... but typically, those that encourage (rather than set out to cut people down in public) are rare.
I've seen many experienced players using modern English for a long time... so I suspect the link that Cyber is inferring, is that he, as a "baddie", is more likely to get people being nitpicky about his use of language than "goodies".
Naturally, players are much more likely to look for something to be critical of if your character is in conflict with their character, that's just something you have to deal with when playing a "baddie".
I've seen it happen enough times to know there is a pattern... but, there's only one thing you can do about it...
Try to make your roleplay (especially conflicts) as true to the settings as possible, near to flawless if you can.
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yeah but how the heck do u know that that was how they spoke back then? you sure as heck didnt live in the medieval times.
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I have nothing against people Picking on me in fact i invite it for anyone who knows me, NO what I am against is the "Be in character" crud that people throw at me, you wanna call me a flea bitten dragon sucking war monger then so be it... hey thats pretty good thats going in my description...
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Well, to clarify... I guess you mean... when they throw that crud at you even when you are IC?
(Also, on a side note... I think Dragons have been mentioned before... and are apparently against the settings, so maybe avoid that bit!)
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dragons are mabe not real but could a medieval person believe that they exist or at least use them in an insult? ;P
And yes i don't mind crud thrown at me just don't the "be in character crud" when you don't know what you are talking about
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@bilbous: I'm not trying to be historically correct here. And nor are you in saying what you just said. Back then People used something called "Old English", which quite frankly won't be understood by vast majority of modern (also native) English speakers. So being historically correct means being misunderstood by most (if not all) Planeshift players. That's one.
Second: If you want to compare Earth's medieval society with Yliakum's one.
- In Yliakum you don't get burnt or drowned for using magic.
- In Yliakum most characters know how to write and read. At what level, that's unknown. None the less they can.
- In Yliakum most characters are much wealthier.
There are peasants, sure. But people don't role-play them. If they role-played peasants, they'd have to stay away from the main cities, which are inhabitted in big portion by rich and educated. In other words, Planeshift for the time being doesn't support role-playing peasants (and it's hard to imagine large portion of Planeshifters role-playing them should this be any different).
Now from that point: "normal" English is what most people should use. Not any peasant talk. Why? Because most dwell in cities and as such most should have in common certain way of talking. Then there come certain differences. Enkidukais may use "rr" instead of "r" (basing this on the wiki assumption that there's no "r" consonant in Enkien) and seeing as Enkien is simpler than English, they might simplify the grammar as well. People playing dwarves may stereotypically try to sound somewhat Scotish (so no "What'cha doin wit that?"). Now elves may throw in some thou's and thine's and try to sound more poetic, mostly if their characters are bards.
Personally, my character is an Enkidukai who has been raised on courts among Ylians. Nowadays he's mostly interested in art and politics. Because of this I take the usual "normal" English (to be more Ylian alike) and then try to give my sentences some poetic feeling and throw in a kenning here or there (for artistic touch), additionally trying to use sophisticated language (for courtly and political touch).
Planeshift isn't a complete reconstruction of medieval world. We don't aim here to be historically correct. We won't start using Old English and additionally butch it to sound more peasant-like. But some players will give their characters dialects that will make them sound like blacksmith, noble, village boy or bard. Not to be historically correct, but to provide themselves and other players with a nice gaming atmosphere that will give them a fantasy feeling. Some people around here know me as a realism freak, but here I hold back. The way archaic dialects are used right now, works just fine. So I don't see a reason why anyone would expect it be done otherwise.
So to conclude: No, I'm not talking about how people should speak from historical point of view. I'm simply aiming at people getting better gaming atmosphere. You don't need to sound archaic, I don't really expect that from most people. But if you use modern English, at least try to use proper grammar and avoid using modern slang.
Given the new information on this matter, I cannot really say whether the complaint is justified. I didn't see how the role-play of bad character was pulled off, nor do I see proof of any ill-treatment in this thread. But if you decide to play a culprit, it should be on the list of your priorities to make sure no one gets upset with your role-play. If someone does, go into private discussion with them explaining that it's just role-play and ask what turned them off, in hope that you can fix it and avoid the situation repeating itself in the future. And by all means, do watch out with your language in such situations. Playing a negative character and using annoying slang will upset people. That is to be expected.
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Elves in PS are either tree-huggers or fish-brains so I'm not sure why they'd be poetic in speach more than other races.
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Hey zanibar thats going overboard! elves are a race of high-class members not "fish-brains" and "tree-huggers"!so watch it pal! >:(
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Hey zanibar thats going overboard! elves are a race of high-class members not "fish-brains" and "tree-huggers"!so watch it pal! >:(
All I'm saying is that Demorians are forest people while Nolthirs are aquadic.
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Now I dont use slang in game and would have no problem with people getting mad at me if I was, No my complaint is that people generally are more likely to assume that you are being OOC then that you are in-character and that you are not a good guy.
A prime example I have of this is one time I was asked to eliminate someone.
So I goto the person and tell them "I am here to kill you and have been sent by powers you cannot comprehend" Now this proceeded to have the person say "Whats up with this crazy dwarf... leave me alone or im going to ignore you be IC geeze..."
You tell me who was Ic or OOC ???
But nonetheless my point is that there should be some sort of way for people to stop these people who would rather just cay you are OOC and call you a noob then even try to fathom that you are IC and you just are not the same IC as they are.
I have seen this happen to not only bad characters but also good characters, however it is more a problem for bad characters.
My proposition is that there should be a rule of some sort against over-excessive "Your OOC" calling just like how there is a rule against being OOC
As for this
If someone does, go into private discussion with them explaining that it's just role-play and ask what turned them off, in hope that you can fix it and avoid the situation repeating itself in the future.
Are you saying that I should have to make a point and spend 10-15 minutes or more of my time to make MY character more fit THEIR description of what OOC and IC is?
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Elves in PS are either tree-huggers or fish-brains so I'm not sure why they'd be poetic in speach more than other races.
This is the one of the reasons why i like PS. In other games elves are like lovely, poetic, peacefull, almost perfect race (It makes me want to vomit sometimes) and it sucks as much as vacuum cleaner. Finally some game where elves are on the same level as other races. Even IRL there are many humans who are poetic in speech. You should be able to roleplay your charakter in a way you want to.
IMHO: The OOC chat tab won't be useless and i dont think it will be difficult to make (sth like Auction tab) And roleplayers should be able to swith the tab off.
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From the initial post I was unsure as to what you were complaining about as I for one have rarely seen thee's and thou's or overtly flowery language used in the 2+ years I've been in PS.
A prime example I have of this is one time I was asked to eliminate someone.
So I goto the person and tell them "I am here to kill you and have been sent by powers you cannot comprehend" Now this proceeded to have the person say "Whats up with this crazy dwarf... leave me alone or im going to ignore you be IC geeze..."
However I see a couple of things wrong with this statement, if as a truly evil person would you walk up and say "I'm going to kill you" surely you'd be way more likely to backstab or attack without warning, secondly how do you know the person cannot comprehend? tell a char what his abilities is akin to godmodding and I'd be inclined to ignore you too and do you expect them to just stand and be killed because it fits your rp?
If you truly are hassled by suggestions of OOCness do a /report and make a petition GM's will investigate all suggestions of harassment
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SAYING that he can't comprehend is not gomodding. /me notices soandso can't comprehend, would be. If they talk about IC without [] it is OOC. But other than that you both could have been IC but you were just going about killing him very badly. Notice where the villians in James Bond go wrong? "I'm going to kill you now." It doesnt work.
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@Zanzi: Do you perchance use your own artwork for elf characters? If so, can you share? :P
Because whenever I see an elf ingame, his clothing simply screams with "Hi, I'm a pansy bard". When I try to evaluate culture of a race, I usually look at its setting, appearance and architecture. Considering Dermorian clothing is much more fancy than Ylian one, I assume their language must be as well. I simply try to figure out what their sense of aesthetics could be. So far it seems to me for them it's form over functionality.
@cyber: I'll start with refering to your closing statement.
You know, I probably joined Planeshift earlier than most (if not all) players you met in-game. What is a fact, at the time when I joined the state of community was completely different. Everyone at that time behaved completely different than people do today. Now if I behaved the way everyone did back then, today people would keep scolding me for out of character behaviour. As such, instead I simply followed the evolution of the community. I don't go around saying how I have the right to play however I want, because I've been doing it before all those people came to Planeshift. No, instead I play by the rules the community dictates, just so that both me and other players may find some pleasurable role-play in the encounters. Planeshift isn't a single player game. When you log in, you connect to a well-developed community. You should take this into consideration, open your mind to what is expected from the players who join it and strive to follow those expectations.
Right now it's obvious you don't care. You don't want to change your role-play despite that you don't actually know what other people may wish to see done differently. Perchance if you did listen, both your experience and that of others would improve drastically. But quite frankly, if you're not going to even give it a try, you will never know. I did play an evil character in the past and I never had any people whining about my actions. Possibly it had something to do with my being member of the most respected evil guild at that time, where cliched evil behaviour was simply out of question.
Now on to your example:
"I am here to kill you and have been sent by powers you cannot comprehend"
Please don't get offended, but the way I see it the above could come either from someone who has some serious role-playing problems, or someone who does in fact only try to annoy people (and I don't mean it in character).
The first part is somewhat amusing, as I don't understand why would anyone say that anyway (lanser covered that part already).
Second part is much more... awkward.
"have been sent by powers you cannot comprehend"
Okay, maybe I won't be able to understand it as well, but could you please try to explain in here what "powers" actually sent your character?
The above may indicate you:
a) Have very little understanding of your character's background yourself.
b) Act against your character when you actually bring up powers that most likely cannot exist.
c) Are just trying to annoy people. If they won't understand it, why talk about it?
Personally I would just respond with /me arches an eyebrow. "And you are..?"
If you want to provoke fear, that most certainly isn't the way to do it.
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A few tips for playing an 'evil' character, that goes round killing people. People dont like having others walk up to their character and try and kill them, simple as that, it might happen in real life but as long as we dont have open PvP its just not going to work. Let them get confortable with your RP beforehand. The best meathod I found for asassination in planeshift was the following... Make friends with them, get buddy with them, if they ask you anything OOC dont lie, but IC be as bastard as you like when it comes to backstabbing. Tell them as they seem like a nice person you have a business propostion for them but you dont want others to hear about it so would they mind if they will come into a secluded back alley. Tell them to stand facing the wall so you can show them something. Then you grab them from behind, spout all the crappy cliches you like but remember, half the game is beating them ooc at this point and as bad roleplay as it is they will be /telling every powerleveled shmock they know. By now they wont mind so much being killed by you if your lucky because they have been truley beaten rather than you just turning up with higher stats than them.
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@Zanzi: Do you perchance use your own artwork for elf characters? If so, can you share? :P
Because whenever I see an elf ingame, his clothing simply screams with "Hi, I'm a pansy bard". When I try to evaluate culture of a race, I usually look at its setting, appearance and architecture. Considering Dermorian clothing is much more fancy than Ylian one, I assume their language must be as well. I simply try to figure out what their sense of aesthetics could be. So far it seems to me for them it's form over functionality.
Perhaps, but not necessarily. Still, Dermorians aren't the only elves in game.
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I'd say the Dermorians were the closest to the elves we all know and hate. Beautiful creatures that love fruit and what have you. They have hte dire disadvantage when it comes to religeon though and their past isnt to nice with lava lakes and all. Spanish word for devil and they come straight from hell... but no they aren't devils you all yell.
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I think you're confusing Dermorians with the Diaboli.
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Correct you are. Starts with a D :sweatdrop:
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Not everyone hates Elves.I think Elves are beast.They can beat the crap out of any race
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Right now, there's no cap on the stats of any of the races, so they can all beat the crap out of eachother equally.
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All Elves look like girls, whats the deal with that? In planeshift they even have large chests -.-
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You've heard of girly-men I'm sure, not hard men like kran! We solid.
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All Elves look like girls, whats the deal with that? In planeshift they even have large chests -.-
/me coughs "Some men work out, they gain muscles..."
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I'm amazed how the elves all managed to get muscles only on their pex and no where else ::)
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I'm amazed how the elves all managed to get muscles only on their pex and no where else ::)
/me coughs again "If one works out it depends on what you work out... You ain't gaining no leg muscles when you do sit ups"
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Anatomicaly elves should be the bomb at pushing and pulling stuff.Strong pex are the best indication of a strong triceps muscle.And as im sure you all know triceps are most often used for pushing and pulling.
*Mr know it all sits down in his library of useless knowlege.*