PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: socia on May 17, 2007, 04:13:58 pm
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If players leaves guild he should be forbiden to join any for 12hours.
Reasons are many, mostly forbiding guild nomads, people who during one day join 3 guilds.
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Hmm, I agree. Especially new members join and discard guilds like they're nothing.
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And why shoudn't them?
It is your fault it is happening, how can that person leave if wasn't recruited?
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I say stop mass recruiting, that's the real problem here in my opinion.
If your recrution process is adequate you won't have to worry about your new recruits leaving right away. Personally I've never had it happen with any of my recruits yet. I always have an extensive conversation with the people I recruit to make sure they are really interested and aren't just hopping by.
Secondly such a rule would prevent spies from switching guilds in order to find out information. While I know it's a roleplay that is very hard to do well I don't think it should be harmed by a rule like this.
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Of course mass-recruiting is the real problem. Limiting leaving-joining of guilds might discourage players form being mass-recruited.
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I think that Socia may have an different motive a reasoning for this thread than people have realised.
I believe this relates closely to a couple of members who left a certain guild that does not take part in guild wars, then joined another that was in need of assistance, this was so that the people could take part in the war as (unofficial) allies. If I am wrong then please accept my apologies, this thread may just be coincidential.
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Rrrrr, If I had a guild, and someone left it to fight with another guild I think she/he won't be welcome anymore...
It kinda would damage the loyalty aspect of ones guild ;)
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Rrrrr, If I had a guild, and someone left it to fight with another guild I think she/he won't be welcome anymore...
It kinda would damage the loyalty aspect of ones guild ;)
Precisely. And if a guild won't act like a group instead of separate individuals with own agendas, what's the point of having them? For a pretty tag and another chat tab?
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A guild can act as a group, and act alone as long as the two dont conflict. I dont think that everyones RPs involve their guilds. Many characters have lives outside their guilds.
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I don't see what the problem is, and I don't see how this is a solution to anything.
Some guilds just suck. Preventing people from jumping from one guild to another won't change that fact.
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Why should that person be stopped. If it is in their characters nature to flip-flop between loyalties why would you want them in your guild? The second leader should have seen this and thought 'Hm, they abandoned him, maybe they won't be loyal to me.' Thing is though, that is the leaders choice and the choice should not be made and hardcoded into the game.
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Why should that person be stopped. If it is in their characters nature to flip-flop between loyalties why would you want them in your guild? The second leader should have seen this and thought 'Hm, they abandoned him, maybe they won't be loyal to me.' Thing is though, that is the leaders choice and the choice should not be made and hardcoded into the game.
Exactly. The guild leaders who complain are just being lazy.
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Nobody is saying you cannot join a different guild ever again, just that their should be a cooling off period between leaving one and joining another. I do not see anything wrong with some such OOC device seeing as how OOC existing guild mechanisms are.
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Of course mass-recruiting is the real problem. Limiting leaving-joining of guilds might discourage players form being mass-recruited.
Well I personally don't see how it should. Mass recruiting usually happens with the new players, they wouldn't know of any such rule being in place and I think even if some of them do it won't stop them from being mass-recruited. Honestly can't see any advantage from implementing a lockout timer to join guilds. It's OOC and pointless in my eyes.
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Of course mass-recruiting is the real problem. Limiting leaving-joining of guilds might discourage players form being mass-recruited.
Well I personally don't see how it should. Mass recruiting usually happens with the new players, they wouldn't know of any such rule being in place and I think even if some of them do it won't stop them from being mass-recruited. Honestly can't see any advantage from implementing a lockout timer to join guilds. It's OOC and pointless in my eyes.
There are older and mid-aged guilds who participate in mass-recruiting as well.
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Oh I didn't say anything about the guilds' age .. I just said that the people they recruit are generally relatively new and I guess I can add not familiar with or interested in roleplaying much.
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Oh I didn't say anything about the guilds' age .. I just said that the people they recruit are generally relatively new and I guess I can add not familiar with or interested in roleplaying much.
Perhaps on average, but I've met plenty of new players with great interest in real roleplaying.
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Who were mass recruited?
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Who were mass recruited?
I'm not in a position to answer that question. The only one I can think of who I mass recruited in some way would be Verrliit, but it wasn't really mass recruitment because I selected her based on the promise she showed. Typically I just have a friendly chat with the person, add them to my buddy list, and then they never come back online again.
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Typically I just have a friendly chat with the person, add them to my buddy list, and then they never come back online again.
Pretty much the same thing happens when you mass recruit people, well, it does if they have no interest beyond leveling stats.
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I disagree partially, having a chat with potential recruits and judging them by their reputation or the promise they show isn't mass recruiting. Of course you always have people who turn inactive but the main problem in this thread was people who would join a guild to leave it again and join another.
Mass recruiting is either sending guild invites to random people or spamming the plaza with "I'm making a guild, who wants to join?!" In other words it's recruitment without requirements and without knowledge of who you are recruiting. Bound to lead to some of your recruits leaving the guild soon after.
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I disagree, having a chat with potential recruits and judging them by their reputation or the promise they show isn't mass recruiting.
Mass recruiting is either sending guild invites to random people or spamming the plaza with "I'm making a guild, who wants to join?!" In other words it's recruitment without requirements and without knowledge of who you are recruiting. Bound to lead to some of your recruits leaving the guild soon after.
Well, using your definition Elemental Light have never Mass-recruited :) but IMO, we have.
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What's your definition of it then?
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Hmmm, I would probably say 'inviting people in large quantities'. But that is a bit simplistic really, I should add 'who have not RPed their way into a guild'.
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Kick everyone from the guild and tell them to RP geting into it....I wonder how many would come back.
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I'm having a hard time imagining how one could get into a guild without rp.
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The thing is as a player you get into the guild through RP but as a character you get into the guild via system programed invite.
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I'd say it's the other way around.
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I have had at least a dozen run-bye invites to varrious guilds, very sad :(
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To the original wish, no. Bad idea. That is a form of limiting that has no place in guilds as they are. You would be stomping the ability for one guild to try to recruit quickly out of another, for one thing. You would also be furthure limiting the actual use of guilds. I really see no point in limiting guild jumpers through code.
However, guilds themselves should have more information on a prospective character. Call it a background check. Guild leaders (or anyone the guild leader gives the right to do so) could do an ingame search of what public (non-secret) guilds that character has been in, in what order, and for how long. This would not be OOC info, as the city would very likely keep track of these statistics. It could even be that you would have to ask an NPC for the background check.
You tell NPC: Tell me about Zan.
NPC: Let me look that up for you. Ah yes, here he is. Zan first registered in <guild> on <this date>. He quit <this date>. Zan then joined <guild> on <this date>, which he quit on <this date>. Zan joined <guild> on <this date>, and is still a member.
This way, you give the guilds the power to decide who they invite based on more info. If they pick a guild jumper, or a spy from another guild, then it is their own fault.
NOTE: Secret guilds are exempt from disclosures. If you were in a secret guild, then quit, and the guild was never made public in the time you were in it, it would not show up in your background.
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Kick everyone from the guild and tell them to RP geting into it....I wonder how many would come back.
Uh, maybe I'm stupid, but what does this have to do with anything?
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The main thing I'd like is to automaticaly ignore all guild invites... I don't care about guilds nor do I want to be in one... Even better... remove the GUILD tab for people NOT in a guild...
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Guild leaders (or anyone the guild leader gives the right to do so) could do an ingame search of what public (non-secret) guilds that character has been in, in what order, and for how long. This would not be OOC info, as the city would very likely keep track of these statistics.
I don't see any reason why the city would keep such detailed records. Further, what city are you talking about, since there are many different cities in the Planeshift world. It just doesn't make sense.
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Why? Why does any government keep track of what its people are doing? Obviously you have not looked into economics, taxs, population planning, services, more taxes, demographics, politics, more taxes, power, religion, crime.... shall I go on? There are hundreds of reasons a 'city' would keep track of what organizations a person has belonged to.
I meant all cites. But you bring up a good point. If guilds were city based, then you should only be able to check the records of the guilds residing in the city you are in at the time.
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Why? Why does any government keep track of what its people are doing? Obviously you have not looked into economics, taxs, population planning, services, more taxes, demographics, politics, more taxes, power, religion, crime.... shall I go on? There are hundreds of reasons a 'city' would keep track of what organizations a person has belonged to.
I meant all cites. But you bring up a good point. If guilds were city based, then you should only be able to check the records of the guilds residing in the city you are in at the time.
AHEM! Remember Yliakum isn't orwellian, so no surveillance cameras, spies or highly trustworthy, accurate records stored on computers, the possibility of fraud is not small, and from the way it looks, bureaucracy opens lots of space for it. Also I don't think secret organizations would be interested on being known and having an official status.
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Maybe guild leaders have to fill in a census type thing with a tick list of all their members and can untick any that they don't want people to know about.
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Raleigh, please read though what has been written in this thread before you comment. Secrect guilds would be exempt. No one ever said anything about spies or cameras either. Feline Prince has the right of it. You have to officially signs someone into your guild. That would show up in your guild records (make note to request ingame guild records), which the government would have every right to request be turned into them regularly. Then there is the issue of guild houses and fees. Like it or not, the govenment -would- try to keep track of this type of info. They are already starting keeping track of a similar type of info already, if you have been paying attention to the faction system. Would they know what you had for lunch? No. But they could easily find out what guilds you have been in.
The way it is now, anyone has to be wary of every single person they invite into their guild, as there is no way to check a character's records in an IC manner.
Perhaps one would even have to pay to have the records looked up.
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Sounds too far-fetched to think such kind of records are perfectly accurate, and completely safe from fraud, or omission, for example, specially in a world where Information Technology means nothing. Unless we assume a 100% foolproof register system for that type of information, something that is outrighteously absurd.
Remember there is something called reputation as well, and rumors can be, although less reliable, much more fast, cheap and less bureaucratic than checking on a bunch of paperwork to verify somebody's loyalties and past. I have to say that the best solution lies in something that is believable and truly possible. And I'm full of government here and there as well, in the best RPGs I saw, either government participation is minimal and it is based on a big adventure, or government is just something truly evil to be taken down, destroyed, or something relatively good on the blink of destruction to be saved. I say let's go lasseiz-faire for Yliakum, and from the way things are going, it sounds much more believable and I asure you, it will be much more interesting for many people.
Registers are not completely safe from fraud, tax evasion is not something uncommon in any realistic environment, and corruption is not simply a legend. A way NPCs gradually have rumors about Player Characters("What do you know about *PlayerCharacterX*?") as they become more famous or infamous sounds more believable.
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Maybe a percentage of guilds entries for their records are checked against the actual truth and if too many of them fail to be accurate a 'government investigation' is issued were any 'good' NPC will ask your character for their details, one of the questions being to say what guild they are in. Obviously those on the ball could still lie each time.
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If you want a realistic system, them characters should have to bribe NPCs to remove their names from the lists. The problem this thread is about is guild jumping, and the lack of ability to control, or even know about it. A simple ability to check backgrounds is both realistic and usefull. If you are so against the government doing it, then toss in an NPC guild dedicted to gathering and selling information on people. But, if you ask me, that is far more invasive and creepy, and they -would- know where you have been, who you talked to... and what you had for lunch... All for sale to the highest bidder.
Actually, now that I think about it, I rather do like that idea. >:)
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I will suppot the other way, it is possible NPCs will eventually acquire knowledge about PCs activities as they become more notorious, and inform rumors about these PCs on many things, including potential "guilds" they left, joined and such.
Then instead of going all the way around bureaucracy and paperwork that would be needed to know that, you just ask to a NPC who lives nearby the PC center of activity, something like "Tell me about *PCx*" or "What do you know about *PCx*?". I think it's better and more fitting for a "medieval" world than organized, trustworthy and foolproof records. And the question of implementing bribes or making falsified records will not be necessary to worry about then, as they won't exist for that and thus won't need to be implemented, and knowing this is a free game and all, having something based on reputation where NPCs gather random information through a simple algorithm about somebody rather than a complex system with documents that can be modified by leaders of guilds and all the rest is simpler. Sometimes Keeping It Simple Stupid isn't so bad as it sounds.
Actually, now that I think about it, I rather do like that idea. >:)
I would definitively support it, if this game was called "Nineteen Eighty-Four" or "Brave New World", however, as it isn't, I believe it will disfigurate the Settings, as Yliakum isn't a State/Mob Rule dystopia, therefore I stand completely against it.
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Do you think a God might be able to look at you and read your entire existence in a blink of an eye? Do you further suppose that a sufficiently powerful mage might not do the same with a thirty minute spell? In a world with magic, privacy is only as good as your warding magics and anything a God wants to know can only be protected by an equally powerful God.
That covers theoretical considerations anything else is just a matter of what, how and if anything should be implemented.
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I actually love the simplicity of the existing system. Also, it makes the game very interesting. Please don't change it. Thank you.
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Releigh, simply put, you are being naive. Information gathering and selling, spying, and leaders keeping close tabs on their people is not a new “1984” concept. It has been done for thousands of years, and to a far greater extent than a simple guild check. You are arguing this pretty hard, and keep bringing up fraud. Got something to hide?
You also keep bringing up that this type of thing would not happen in medieval times. Better brush up on your history.
Edit* Ahem. And if you do not think this game is both a State and mob(the people) rule, you should have a closer look at what goes on in the game with the players, and pay a bit more attention to a cetain group of quests. There is something stirring...
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Personaly i think it would be fun to bee able to keep a record of a guilds activities.Something like books.That would also open up a huge posibillity for the great mwriters here to write about fantastric adventures or say the imperial trade guild (just using as an example) to keep its logs.
You must admit that would rock.To a certain degree to say the least.
Edit:to avoid going off topic ill add that guilds would be able to add people to a list and maybe put it to the library.That way if you REALY wanted to know if someone guild hops you would have to look for logs of the guild and talk to the guild members in the instances that there are no logs or entries that serve your needs.
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Personaly i think it would be fun to bee able to keep a record of a guilds activities.Something like books.That would also open up a huge posibillity for the great mwriters here to write about fantastric adventures or say the imperial trade guild (just using as an example) to keep its logs.
Those possibilities are already open.
Yliakum isn't orwellian
End of thread.
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I think players should be able to change whenever they wish. When you first join the game you don't know anything about it and that is when you join a guild that doesn't fit your needs. I will say however, if a player is joining guilds for information access then this problem should be fixed.
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Actualy this can be fixed by the guilds with what they have now.Forums might only allow restricted acces until they know you can be trusted.And for chat information it can be solved by simply be solved with a few group invites.
Basicaly we dont need a new system for that which can be solved with the current one.
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Actualy this can be fixed by the guilds with what they have now.Forums might only allow restricted acces until they know you can be trusted.And for chat information it can be solved by simply be solved with a few group invites.
Basicaly we dont need a new system for that which can be solved with the current one.
Basically it's a crude, but effective method to "put multiple -CLASSIFIED- tags" on certain information by ICly using some kind of protection, be it primitive cyphers, locks, magic among other ways to restrict access to "sensitive" information on a certain guild and OOCly configuring usergroups, both hidden and visible, that have access to restricted areas on foums. And it's entirely possible as well to create multiple "degrees" of clearance using this method, having a gradual increase in access to information to a member according to the time he stays inside a "guild", what is another way to encourage people to remain on it. Equally, "guilds" can have public lists of their members, and of former members on their own forums and IC on their "guildhouses" for others to consult, if they wish. Now forcing every guild to show every name of every single member that is there or have been there, without any chance of bypassing it, isn't something I would fancy.