PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: noxen91 on June 15, 2007, 04:00:22 pm
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Hey all,
Planeshift is a really sweet game but i've got a list of things that could make it improved.
- Newbie friendliness...
I first joined the game and created a character... spawned in some random city and i ran around for a bit... i had no idea what was going on so i ran out the gates into the wilderness. I came across a random who thankfully taught me how to use the r key to run, kill rats, sell items, do quests, showed me were the sewers were, gave me a sword, taught me about PP... pretty much everything i needed to know and also answered all my questions to get me started.
Now i have no problem with this but anyone else may get frustrated by the fact that they have to read the website alot just to figure out how to play the game properly... That game needs some sort of tutorial level thingy to teach people so they dont get poopy and quit the game and give it a bad name in forums etc.
- Mounts
Cmon... running is slow and has its limits... we need mounts! walking ones, flying ones, swimming ones? all good and successful mmorpgs have mounts... look at wow for example...
- PVP
Why must this be limited to the arena?
- Teams
I think the game should take something from wow and include some sort of system like the 'horde vs alliance' system in wow.
Thats about all i can think off without sitting down and getting right into it but its a small list i think that should be considered. I'm sorry if this has already been covered or whatever or if i left anything out but with ideas and support from us players... i think planeshift has the potential to be really big as it's 'completely free'.
Thanks :)
Noxen
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Newbie friendliness is lacking but people know it. They've tried a tutorial system for a while, which didn't really work. I'm certain they'll be working on some new approaches in the future though.
Mounts will come, just be patient.
PvP and 'Alliance vs Horde' is not what planeshift is about. Planeshift is unique in it's striving for roleplaying immersion. If you are mainly interested in fighting people and having big wars .. this game might not be your thing. Player combat brings an entire atmosphere of becoming the best and unrealistic killing along with it. Planeshift wants to avoid that atmosphere.
All in all you should remember two things about this game .. that is that it is still heavily being developed, will be for a long time to come and secondly it is a roleplaying game.
By the way ... welcome :D
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- Newbie friendliness...
We plan to have some kind of newbie area in future, which will introduce new players to the PS settings and guide them on how everything works. I can't say when that'll be done for, but I agree that it's something we're missing.
- Mounts
Planned too, we just haven't had the resources to get it done yet.
- PVP
Why must this be limited to the arena?
Several reasons. Firstly, because we haven't got the npc AI or faction systems in place to stop griefing (stronger players continually attacking newbies), or to control PvP so that it's far more pain than gain to PvP in certain zones. Secondly, because I don't think PS is really going to be a PvP game (unfortunatly imo). It'll be more of a PvE beat-the-monsters game with RP'ers.
- Teams
I think the game should take something from wow and include some sort of system like the 'horde vs alliance' system in wow.
I don't know what Talad has planned for the rolling story of the game, but AFAIK PS is going to be quite a peaceful place for the most part, at least between players. There will probably be invasions from the Stone Labyrinths in the future or something like that, but I don't think we'll have factional warfare like WoW does. It'll always be players vs someEvilNPCEntity.
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There is tons or WoW type MMORPGs (RP??)....
And I dont see a reason why Planeshift should be same as every other.
You want PvP? You want Good X Evil wars like in WoW? Sure. Go play WoW and we RPlayers will keep RP game Planeshift.. that sounds reasonable, what?
Planeshift is unique wits it's RPs and I (and many others) would like to keep it. Otherwise Planeshift will fade in the bunch of PL PvP Non-RP games.
Enjoy RP :)
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About new friendliness : there is a guide on the website, and it is also into the game folder when you install it. But, for some strange reason, i can't find any newcomer who have read it. I use it often, even though i think i know quite a few about the game, because it is really useful.
When advising, i notice that most of the questions are answered in the guide.
Maybe the "newcomer friendliness" issue could be resolved if the newcomers read the manual? :)
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People are lazy by nature .. they expect to have their guides and tutorials to be presented on the silver platters of game mechanics :P
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People are lazy by nature .. they expect to have their guides and tutorials to be presented on the silver platters of game mechanics :P
There is a brutal difference between the effect of a well-done tutorial and of a written guide on the effectiveness of teaching people how to play, because the tutorial teaches at the same time as you play, combining theory and practice, while a guide, you must read it and then play, being just the theory, and also sometimes it's uncapable of portraying correctly the ways of the game. This is specially the case for Roleplay. Reading a roleplay guide gives lots of examples, but no clue on what you will really do when you are actually in game and not just reading a guide. That's why I completely support the idea of an optional and seamless(does not detract from immersion and is integrated with the rest of the game) tutorial, specially if it has a roleplay part as well. People learn better in practice than in theory.
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Also, PvP is very appropriate in the arena, as not everywhere else. I mean, you don't want to be sitting at the Kada-el Tavern and see some guys guts sprawled on the floor, no do you? :)
PvP is more of a war feature, thus only in the arena.
~Wise words from Jaimez Bling
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Newbie friendliness: Agreed. Even starting a new character after knowing the game is not very easy to do without begging items off others. This will be fixed in the future. Be patient.
Mounts: PS is not all that big yet, but it can still be a bit annoying to go on those long runs, due to having things attainable only in one place sold only in a place all the way across the world. That actually adds greatly to the newbie unfriendliness. I can not count the number of times I have heard "Where do I sell 'item'?" and the answer is at the end of a 15+ minute run through an empty landscape. Mounts will not help new characters in this aspect, as no new player will be able to afford one. My suggestion is to make NPCs closer to the area (or right in it) that the items are found, but have them buy those items at half price.
PvP everywhere: Not without a proper system of law coded into the game first. And not the standard "If you attack someone, the guards will kill you" kind of lameness. And also a newbie ingame guide specifically telling them exactly what bad things will happen to their character if they choose the life of crime. The proper PvP system would be fun to play from both sides, but not go rampant. I am satisfied with the PvE+GMs that we have now, but would like it if the GMs had more power and control over their minions.
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Non-lethal brawls would be amusing. Perhaps some towns could (game)mechanistically prevent armed combat (except during events) and similarly suspend death for unarmed combat. It would probably take more tweeking to the idea to work well and might be too hard to code anyway.
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- Newbie friendliness...
- Mounts
Cmon... running is slow and has its limits... we need mounts! walking ones, flying ones, swimming ones? all good and successful mmorpgs have mounts... look at wow for example...
- PVP
Why must this be limited to the arena?
- Teams
I think the game should take something from wow and include some sort of system like the 'horde vs alliance' system in wow.
1. I fully agree that some kind of newby help system must be implemented into the game. Also I might add it is somehow dazzeling that during character creation you make a background for your character, log into the game and find youself in your undies. ::|
So maybe it would be a bit more realistic that your character starts off with some minimum gear, perhaps based on the background you chose during character creation.
2. I think that as the game expands and grows alternative forms of travel will be implemented through mounts, spells, items and public transport. Don't forget that the game is still under development.
3. I believe that there is another PvP system in PS, however I am not sure wether it is fully functional. Wars between guilds. I think that this kind of PvP adds to the intrigue of RP once a full political system, etc. have been integrated.
4. Through the background story (if you have read it) it is obvious that a faction based PvP system for PS is not adapted. I mean, against who are you going who are you going to fight ? Remember, we are all just stuck in a huge cave and fighting for survival. :P
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Ok, some of you may already dislike me for making controversial statements here but majority of you are wrong about PvP (unless we've been lied to again). Look at this interview with PlaneShift's director Luca Pancallo (this is from 2006):
http://news.mmosite.com/data/p/u/2006/03/24/194048044.html
MMOSITE: The game creates a very interesting environment for players, where people start their adventure in Yliakum, an underground city which has eight levels, can you tell us more about this, and what kind of game world do you want to present to the players?
Luca Pancallo: The world is somewhat peaceful in the cities, but quite challenging outside. All major cities have high fortifications and many guards to watch over the invasions that come from the Stone Labyrinths. The labyrinths are a large maze of tunnels that extend from the stalactite into the crust of the world, with outposts, villages and other races living inside the tunnels. Much of this is still under development, so I'm giving you the future vision, not the actual one. At the present time players can explore the main city (hydlaa) a number of underground dungeons, Ojaveda the city of feline-humanoid called enkidukai, and the death realm.
The death realm will be an integral part of the game. It's the place where dead souls go, but also the place where many evil-aligned players can start to build their web of power. The whole architecture of the death realm is very different from the living world, with huge bridges made of bones, steep stair, floating eyes watching you. It's currently made of a flying citadel and few cells for eternally imprisoned souls. When a player dies, he will be transported to this dark realm, and he will not be able to return to the living world, until he finds the exit or he completes a quest. In the future, as we expand the realm, it will be much harder to come back, so players will really start to fear dying in game. We would like to expand the death realm to create a parallel dimension where other guilds, jobs, magic can start to create a separate society. I expect fights or even wars between the two realms as they expand. Powerful wizard will probably be able to travel from one to the other without the need to die. Different monsters, physics rules and experience will be provided in this thrilling realm.
And another quote that makes the game actually sound more interesting than what is stated on the main PS website:
MMOSITE: Can you give PlaneShift fans some details about the storyline behind the game? What role do the players play to develop the story?
Luca Pancallo: I must say that at the present time we described little of the story behind the game. There is a public history published on the web site, but that's just what players can gather also ingame, it's the knowledge of the inhabitants of the land. Much different is the real story behind the stalactite and why players are there. This is kept secret and we will unveil it very slowly as we proceed with the development of new areas and quests for the game. What I can say is that Talad and Laanx, the two main gods, are currently away from the lands for a specific task given by greater gods, they are learning and, if they manage to understand something of it, they will probably be back with some news to hydlaa people. There is a hidden full greater scale of events compared to the one that players are seeing now.
Admit it, many of you did not know that.
Love me or hate me but I bring exciting info. 8)
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I thought that Guilds could have wars? Or am I wrong? :-\
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I completely agree that the online support for the beginer is lacking, well It is there, but it isn't that obvious, then all the controls are listed in the menu at the top of the screen.
I was also lost at the start of the game, ran off, got killed. but I found that my ignorance eventually forced me to interact with the game, and talk to people to find out what was going on, and if ignorance forces you to roleplay in this game, then it can't be an all bad thing.
(though talking to NPCs could be WAY easier, sure you get plenty about that already though)
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I thought that Guilds could have wars? Or am I wrong? :-\
The problem is that the "director", the "developers" and the "community" all seem to be out of tune with each other. Here you see developers and community swear that this game isn't going to be about "good vs evil", that it won't have major wars, and that it won't have much PvP (how can you without major wars, right?). In fact, you can find many recent and older posts where they claim that the only major "opponent" will be the "wild beasts" from Stone Labyrinths.
And yet, the "director" happily gives interviews that completely contradict all of it. Suddenly, there is good vs evil - two major realms (one good, one evil), big wars between them etc. Same pattern as with "Alpha", "Pre-Alpha" and "Beta", it seems.
Amusing. 8)
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Planeshift is unique in it's striving for roleplaying immersion.
I would wish for that to be true. RP ingame isn't even enforced or mandatory in contrary to some games I know. So how is it unique? In promising it but not delivering? Thats been done before to.
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Hello!
Newbie friendliness...
Well, I'm a newbie. Maybe I just was lucky but I met someone who explained things to me right in the beginning. Usually you get a response to your question if you ask kindly. And the abilty to read really helps, too. So, I can't confirm that this game is not newbie friendly.
- Mounts
Cmon, this is not WoW. This world isn't that large that we really need mounts. I really like that it takes some time to travel from one city to another.
- PVP
PvP is RPs greatest enemy as most people use it just for the thrills instead of RP reasons. I really like it how it is in PS.
- Teams
I think the game should take something from wow and include some sort of system like the 'horde vs alliance' system in wow.
This is not WoW. If you want to play WoW then go and play WoW. This is a unique world with its own races, conflicts and history. I'm really fed up with people who think that WoW is the mother of all MMO(RP)Gs and are looking for a substitute where they do not have to pay for the game.
With kind regard
Kaityra
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- Mounts
Cmon, this is not WoW. This world isn't that large that we really need mounts. I really like that it takes some time to travel from one city to another.
What is currently in game is only a fraction of the first level of Yliakum, and it has 8 levels. Just because there are mounts in WoW, it doesn't mean such feature is bad.
- PVP
PvP is RPs greatest enemy as most people use it just for the thrills instead of RP reasons. I really like it how it is in PS.
It is not PvP itself that is an enemy of roleplaying, but some of the people attracted by it. In PnP RPGs, many times when a character dies, he is gone and there is no turning back, so the player has no choice but to make another character to roleplay. If a MMO was like that, PvP would definitively be discouraged for non RP reasons, and the same about powerlevelling combat skills, as all could easily be lost. Not much "customer friendly" to be implemented I suppose.
I never saw the actors of war and action movies, like for example, Saving Private Ryan, saying "LOL", "PWN4G3", "ROFL" and alike. I'm pretty sure somebody with enough interest on roleplay can use PvP without that thing and look convincingly as a fighting character. Of course there is a difference of depth between a shallow "Rambo" and the much more developed duelist "hero" from the book The Count of Monte Cristo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Count_of_Monte_Cristo). Also the "Three musketeers" shows that this is not something to put the blame on PvP, the problem are people who are on the wrong type of game, as pure combat without any depth or story immersiveness is something more suitable for FPSes and third-person view action games as well. There are definitively ways to put roleplay into combat. Now a full PvP zone is something I disagree with until there is a working law system where the guards will have an AI to deal with murderers and alike, something that won't happen soon, but soon(TM).
- Teams
I think the game should take something from wow and include some sort of system like the 'horde vs alliance' system in wow.
This is not WoW. If you want to play WoW then go and play WoW. This is a unique world with its own races, conflicts and history. I'm really fed up with people who think that WoW is the mother of all MMO(RP)Gs and are looking for a substitute where they do not have to pay for the game.
With kind regard
Kaityra
This type of conflict is something that can be achieved in a less static form, we don't need the developers to create conflicting factions, not with a place like the Death Realm for example, where guilds are likely to be in constant conflict is something more interesting and realistic than fixed and indestructible factions where one cannot betray his/her side on the conflict.
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And yet, the "director" happily gives interviews that completely contradict all of it. Suddenly, there is good vs evil - two major realms (one good, one evil), big wars between them etc. Same pattern as with "Alpha", "Pre-Alpha" and "Beta", it seems.
Eh, I wouldn't say that's Good v. Evil. The Death Realm is a place people go when they die. Not really an 'evil' place, as it were... Nor is Yliakum necessarily a good place. Big wars is the exception, though... but it still isn't really good v. evil. (despite the mention that the Death Realm is where evil characters could start building their webs, I would think it'd be much easier to do that in the living realm, where you know your enemies and don't have to compete with the silly people building their webs in the death realm, who're sure to bump heads often.
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I think the "evil" realm would more likely be the stone labyrinths. It is good vs evil. Just that we are all on the side of good and can't join the NPC hordes that will be spilling from those depths ;)
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I think the "evil" realm would more likely be the stone labyrinths. It is good vs evil. Just that we are all on the side of good and can't join the NPC hordes that will be spilling from those depths ;)
It's not so simple as that. What resides in the labyrinths doesn't seem to be sentient, at most semi-sentient(something which meaning is yet to be explained), how can a being without sentience be morally judged? But who knows if there is another truly sentient force using these creatures against Yliakum? And "we are all on the side of good" is an oversimplification as well, it is more like "we put our differences aside when there is a risk to our survival coming from the Labyrinths". Then, some NPCs of the death realm seem anything but good, to only add to that, specially someone named Londris. So I can guess, the Labyrinths will be the place where monster wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave) mindless assaults come from to keep the more combative characters active, the DR for the kind of "evil" that is more interesting than just invasions, and the shadier parts of Yliakum for the kind of "evil" that never shows its face, sometimes also being the proverbial wolf in sheep's costume.
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at most semi-sentient(something which meaning is yet to be explained),
A definition of semi-intelligent hasn't been fully hammered out, but rule of thumb:
If it's capable of holding a weapon or a tool, and has limited speech capability or some form of communication, BUT is not one of the player races, it's semi-intelligent.
Examples of unintelligent: clacker, rat, ulbernaut
Examples of intelligent: rogue, fanatic, gladiator
Examples of semi-intelligent: gobble, derghir, maybe others soon? :)
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Well we already know that not to be true. There should atleast be the realm where the Dark Flame rules with sentient being and there might even be more outposts out there not connected to Yliakum and perhaps even hostile to Yliakum. So all waves aren't nececarily mindless monsters. They may be rogues aswell or perhaps you'll even get waves of semi-intelligent beings let by intelligent NPCs. Like you have with the Dark Elves leading goblins and orcs into battle in many other fantasy settings.
Anyhow I didn't but it as "evil" for nothing. It is just to show it might not be really evil, but you could see it as a struggle between good and evil. Evil is rather subjective after all and I doubt any of the Yliakum populace will describe the invasions as a good thing. ;)
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Examples of unintelligent: clacker, rat, ulbernaut
and planeshifters :P
And yeah. I'm sorry, but the game has been around how long? Do people really make these suggestions thinking "Hmm, bet nobody has asked for mounts before!"
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It's really flattering that people are quoting interviews from years ago on this forum now. :-)