PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Bepules on June 18, 2007, 01:20:17 pm
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I noticed that old Q300/300 weapons made in a time in which everybody was able to craft such a weapon without any practical training are still in the game.
And today these people are able to make a copy oh this weapon by stacking and repairing.
Is this fair to honest crafters who train a lot to make a weapon? If I train some month smithing I would be maybe able to craft a Q200/200 weapon. But nobody will buy it because everybody would buy an copy of an old Q300/300 or Q250/250 weapon from a crafter who has still one of this.
Why are the old high quality weapons not wiped? Better today then tomorrow, when the first honest crafters are able to make high Q weapons from hard training.
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Wiping high quality weapons is not a fix to this problem .. it's just hiding the results. Hopefully with the new inventory system that is coming, our stacking problem will be fixed.
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Hopefully with the new inventory system that is coming, our stacking problem will be fixed.
Stacking and repairing is a bug? Not a feature?
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It was a feature to get around a bug and it seems to be fixed with not being able to stack weapons in HEAD
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HEAD?
What does it mean?
I am worry about the using of stacking and repairing. As far as I understood Caarrie it is no bugusing, isn't it?
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HEAD is the current bleeding-edge development version of PlaneShift.
You will most probably not be able to stack weapons in .19 (the next public release) anymore. So the stacking-bugs should be fixed then.
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Stacking shouldn't alllow an item to get a higher quality than it normally has, that's the bug. This doesn't mean that stacking and repairing itself aren't features ... just that they shouldn't be used to make weapons better than they are. I consider people who do that to be exploiters.
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First off About the Q300/300s
I know some people Who really do make them and spent Months training up to make them
put all other game play aside to just train up in weapons creation
So why would you cry to have q300s wiped
just train up
sorry to be so harsh in what i am saying but This is a game
It is a BETA no less
Instead of worrying about what can be taken away why not worry about what can be added or fixed as in the problems
sorry thats just how i feel
I am not flaming you
and i do mean what i say with respect to ones feelings
But if 300/300s were a problem then i should cry about the fact that no one will buy my quality 100s that i make
enough said on my part
just food for thought
remeber one thing
There is always one who can do something better than an other
and the other can do something better than the one
just perfect your trade and you will be rich with knolage
and also with tria
I just dont understand why people cry for wipes
when others are successful at what they do
One day some one is going to cry wipe and we all will be deleted
all the hard work we put in to our selves
all the training all the reputations
and Probably all the guilds
So be carful on what you wish
you may get more than you ask for
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First off About the Q300/300s
I know some people Who really do make them and spent Months training up to make them
put all other game play aside to just train up in weapons creation
So why would you cry to have q300s wiped
just train up
Well, I didn't talk about wiping of Q300/3000 weapons. I talked about the fact that old Q300 made with the help of a bug are duplicated with the help of a feature that exists to get around a bug. I only suggested to wipe the Q300 to prevent that copys are made from weapons wich were crafted in a time in that crafting didn't work as today.
You say to train up? But, why should I do, why shouuld I spend months and why should I put all other game play aside? It is much easier to craft a sword with level 0 in blacksmith and swordmaking with a quality of 30 and stack it on my old bugcrafted Q300 sword. Then I have two swords Q165/300. Now I just need to repair them to Q300/300 and I am ready. I don't train crafting. Instead I have fun and make what is the game about: roleplaying.
Oh yeah...all other people that don't have these old Q300 weapons have to train hard and me...I enjoy myself.
Instead of worrying about what can be taken away why not worry about what can be added or fixed as in the problems
So, now I ask you: Is a wipe not a method to fix the problem that copys of old Q300 are able to make? Besides I said that the wipe would be better today than tomorrow because if the first people are able to craft them it would be understadable that they would complain about a wipe of their weapons. I didn't know that there are already some people who can make them legaly.
In my opinion you are only afraid of a wipe...maybe you even sell copys of your old Q300 selfmades...or you don't like the bad w-word in generel...
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Personally i don't think it's that big of a deal. some ppl want 3oo's and sometimes they need better stats in there weapons.
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Personally i don't think it's that big of a deal. some ppl want 3oo's and sometimes they need better stats in there weapons.
What do you like to say?
Do you know that a Q300 short sword is as well as a shord sword with slash 8? Or what do you mean with better stats?
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This should npt even worrent a responce since you like to point things out and make everyone look like they are the bad ones
I am going to make this short
1 I care less about wipes because i made it to what Lorac is now with out exploiting
But to loose my swords i spent hard madeTria for because you are crying about something that not alot knew about
yes i would be mad
2 you shot your self in the foot by saying what you have to do
you wont sell swords any more ................hope admin catches the exploit and deleted the detail you mentioned
Sorry but I care less about Exploits because I have honor
3 its your choice wether you want to actually become good at something or not
I can not tell you what to do
But dont take it out on everyone else because you dont want to work for what you have
As far as me selling old Q300s
I dont even sell my weapons i make now
I give them to people who need them
So my friend wrong on all counts
(it makes me sad that people are so self oriented)
(with that said I am done argueing this matter)
Do not even begain to put my name in with exploits
because I dont need to cheat or take advantage of others
and i am offended you could insinuate that i may have
We obviously have not met ingame
Anyways i am done argueing
no matter what wipes will come and go
and I care less if it comes today or in the marrow
I care about the people
Thats what makes ps
not what we have/me bows and walks away
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I care less about wipes because i made it to what Lorac is now with out exploiting
But to loose my swords i spent hard madeTria for because you are crying about something that not alot knew about
yes i would be mad
Hm...seems like you are afraid of the Q300 weapons of your char.
And: I am pretty sure that everybody who has an old Q300 or Q250 weapon knows how to make a copy!
That's why I don't made this: you shot your self in the foot by saying what you have to do
hope admin catches the exploit and deleted the detail you mentioned
Why should a admin do so? Is it a spoiler to complain about a bug, or something that is considered to be similar to a bug? Or are you afraid that buyers of Q300 weapons could ask if the weapon was made in a legal way?
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he said he didn't want to argue and i agree because this is no big deal at all you should respect him. :)
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he said he didn't want to argue and i agree because this is no big deal at all you should respect him. :)
It`s no big deal? It`s the same as if somebody uses a way without training to cast spells in crystal way you are only able to cast if you reached the maximum level...what is 150 maybe. I don't know.
It is even a bigger deal because of this the economy related to crafting cannot develop. The prices for high Q weapons are so cheap because there is no effort in training to craft such a weapon. Most of the crafters I know sell their copys of high Q weapons for the number of steel stocks and some money, about 10k tria for a pair of weapons. So I ask: Who would buy a selfcrafted Q200 weapon made from hard training? If the crafter wants to sell it he/she has to sell it for less than a Q300 weapon. But less than a Q300 weapon means the crafter makes a loss by selling it.
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So if it's such a big deal to you why don't you start making 300's yourself. ;)
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No it doesn't because it IS less than a Q300 weapon, you said it youreself it's a Q250...why would it sell for the same and why would it be less? I think people should just play the freaking game and not complain, it's in alpha/beta and even so it beats almost every other free MMO in existence. It seems like this "bug" isn't exactly new. Wiping Q300 swords/etc won't stop people from doing it again. Somebody just needs to find a way to fix it until then live with it eh? With all due kindness, stop typing. /what he said. *points up*
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So if it's such a big deal to you why don't you start making 300's yourself. ;)
It seems to me you don't understand the issue I complain about!
Extra for you I write it once again: In earlier time people was able to craft Q300 weapons without any skill in weapon making and blacksmith. Today they use these old selfmade weapons to make a copy of them. The way they do this copy is considered to be exploiting.
No it doesn't because it IS less than a Q300 weapon, you said it youreself it's a Q250...why would it sell for the same and why would it be less? I think people should just play the freaking game and not complain, it's in alpha/beta and even so it beats almost every other free MMO in existence. It seems like this "bug" isn't exactly new. Wiping Q300 swords/etc won't stop people from doing it again. Somebody just needs to find a way to fix it until then live with it eh? With all due kindness, stop typing. /what he said. *points up*
1. I said that a Q300 weapon is very cheap today because there is no effort to train to craft such a weapon. Because of this the price of it is only somewhat more than the price to produce it, means the number of stocks. So you have to go cheper if you like to sell a Q200 weopon because a Q200 is not as well as a Q300. But if you go cheaper than the price you have to pay to produce it you make a loss.
2. The "bug" is not new, that's right. But am I not allowed to complain about something old fashioned? And wiping Q300 will stop people from doing it again! Without an original no copy.
If somebody is able to craft a Q300 weopon in a legal way he/she should be able to make a copy of this. Then he/she trained hard for this this.
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No I think they should just have to make a nother one..after all why would you train so much to make it yourself and then copy it? Your saying you don't want people to be able to copy from the Q300 obtained from no effort but if they can make it themselves they're entirely free to do so? That's stupid.
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They have to make another weapon, that's right. This effort has everybody who crafts a weapon, even if you make a copy. A copy means stacking and repairing, I explained it already. Maybe I should mention that you are only able to make a copy if you are the same crafter. Nobody can make a copy of a sword made from somebody else.
If somebody ever made a Q300 weapon from hard training in a legal way then he/she could make a Q300 every time again. But crafting today depends often on someones luck. So it could be that you make at first a Q300 and then a Q280. Then it should be allowed to stack the Q280 on your Q300 and repair both on Q300/300.
I complain that originals made without any training in earlier days are used to make copies today.
And, I like to apeal to all that you should only post your opinion if you know what I am talking about. If your char never made a weapon it could maybe be that you cannot catch my words in the right way. If there are qestions that something should be explained nearer I will explain them of course.
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I never claimed to know anything about it. All I'm saying is, if you put all that time into making a weapon, you should be able to make another one. Don't wipe the Q300s already in existence, no matter what the circumstance. Just make it so you can't make any crappy old sword exactly the same due to a feature/bug. All they have to do is make it so as you go up in repair level the max quality won't drop. That way it's more risky too. Risk = Fun...
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Well, if you repair a Q300 weapons the max quality don't drop.
You are right. There are two ways to solve this:
1. wipe all Q300 weapons
2. don't allow to make a copy at all
But if you wipe the Q300 there will be a big demant in the market of weapons. If you don't wipe them the market is saturated with all the old selfmade weapons that were made without training and their copies that were made with the help of a bug/feature.
Only a wipe can give all honest crafters a chance to sell there selfmade weapons.
I say this because I know a lot crafters who have a lot copies of there Q300 and Q250 weapons. Some of them has even some ALTs who are full of them.
That means even it is not possible to make a copy one day there is a big hoard of this weapons. And that's something that handicaps the development in the weapon market.
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I am not sure max quality drops in any case these days there may be a bug. I repaired someones frosty sword from 17 to 47/50 last night and it remained at 50 when in the past it would have reduced to 49 or 48 or possibly less considering the number of kits I needed to use.
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Maybe it was something buggy the last days, bilbous, but you can repair Q300 weapons without droping the max quality for month.
But that was not the original issue I complained about. However, thanks for you annotation.
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Maybe it was something buggy the last days, bilbous, but you can repair Q300 weapons without droping the max quality for month.
As far as i know from talking to TomT this is how it should work for crafted weapons no quality drop on repair.
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No I mean that if you repair them all the way. It always drops. It just seems dumb. In real life it would even make some sense(at absurdly high levels) to make it even better than before on repair. If max Q never drops they can safely just take the whole stacking thing off because it won't really be necessary for any repair fixing. That way people would actually have to make two instead of make one and use some 25/50 sword to make the second.
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In my opinion there should be even stronger weapons that you can get with even higher quality. when you think about it the 300's aren't that great.
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Sorry for saying that here, but I don't understand why you, whose Char kills noobs on their first day, are saying this.
To kill a noob you can use a standart weapon as well, isn`t it.
But to be serous: If you are maxed out in a weapon combat skill and you use a Q300 weapon against a player you will kill him easily. Not that easy as in times where the max HP was 300 and where silverweave weapons existed but easy enough. I am glad that the time of the one hit duels is over.
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To wipe out my 300/300 will be disasterous to me at this stage. Its taking me close to a week to achieve 1 level in sword making and it will be many more weeks before the preceived level to make 300/300 is acquired. A wipe will mean that i will have to purchase from another crafter (if one can be found) which is adding insult to injury as I am a crafter.
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Do you know that a Q300 short sword is as well as a shord sword with slash 8? Or what do you mean with better stats?
...The prices for high Q weapons are so cheap because there is no effort in training to craft such a weapon.
Not even close. It's more like a Slash 6 range weapon. Iron SS were slash 8 before they were 'fixed' by the devs, and an Iron SS did a LOT more damage than a crafted 300/300. And that's true for an Iron dag vs a crafted dag as well.
And by the way, 300Q crafted weapons are anything but cheap.
But to be serous: If you are maxed out in a weapon combat skill and you use a Q300 weapon against a player you will kill him easily. Not that easy as in times where the max HP was 300 and where silverweave weapons existed but easy enough. I am glad that the time of the one hit duels is over.
Valorius can kill almost any player in the game with a "one pass" kill if the opponent is using bloody stance(which virtually everyone does for some reason). And not just with crafteds either. There are lootable daggers and swords that still allow consitent "First pass" kills.
Just for the record, crafteds are also not the best weapons in PS either.
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Yes, maybe a Q300 short sword makes only the same damage as a slash 6. Thanks for correction.
And by the way, 300Q crafted weapons are anything but cheap.
Are they? The normal pice for a Q300 short sword is about 20k tria. For a short sword you need 8 steel stocks to craft it. That means 2,5k tria each steel stocks. But: In the same time I dig the minerals for a steel stock and make it I can make much more money from digging gold.
As Saamu said, he needs a week training swordmaking one level higher. I think it will lasts some months training until you can make Q300 without making copies. If you consider this and my words before about the fact that you need much time to dig the steel stocks you will notice that the price is cheap. But...of course, if you can make a Q300 without any training (only if you are a player, who made a Q300 weapon in former times) you can afford to sell easy made copies for 20k tria
Just for the record, crafteds are also not the best weapons in PS either.
Are there better weapons? I don't know better weapons with a slash/speed 3. The best ones I ever got as loot have slash/speed 2.
I still wonder why there is no official answer from the PS team if it is allowed to make copies of old high quality weapons. ???
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A set of 300/300SS is currently going for around 100k.
There are many weapons in the game over slash 3. Dark/fire/frosty SS are three such examples. I've seen some looted slash 4 LS too. There are a bunch of lootable axes over slash 3.
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Erm...I think Dathe spoke about the percentage of slash to speed:
Are there better weapons? I don't know better weapons with a slash/speed 3. The best ones I ever got as loot have slash/speed 2.
You said there are better weapons than crafted ones. And you said a crafted Q300 ss has a slash from 6, now you are going to tell me there are frosty, fire and dark ss with slash 4. These weapons aren't better!?!
By the way: If you buy a set of weapons for 100k you don't know the market. But...maybe the time of making Q300 weapons easily will be over if the server is runnung...and hopefully the existing ones will be wiped to clear the market of this cheaterweapons.
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Erm...I think Dathe spoke about the percentage of slash to speed:
Are there better weapons? I don't know better weapons with a slash/speed 3. The best ones I ever got as loot have slash/speed 2.
You said there are better weapons than crafted ones. And you said a crafted Q300 ss has a slash from 6, now you are going to tell me there are frosty, fire and dark ss with slash 4. These weapons aren't better!?!
By the way: If you buy a set of weapons for 100k you don't know the market. But...maybe the time of making Q300 weapons easily will be over if the server is runnung...and hopefully the existing ones will be wiped to clear the market of this cheaterweapons.
And the ones who worked very hard for the tria to get the Q300s are out of the tria they paid for the Q300s?
Talk about Self centered
I am glad i dont know you ingame
yes there is better than crafter weapons
take the ones that have a modifier on it
And I cant say which ones due to the fact it would be a spoiler
But I take it you dont have the stats to weild the better ones since you dont know of them
Granted they wear out but if you repair them Only when you need to then they will last a while
But Back to the Q300s
there is no way to know for sure how a crafter made his/her weapons
and what you are asking for is a mass rip off to the ones who use the crafters to supply their weapons
I still cant believe this thread still lives
since there was a post about locking the threads crying for a wipe
Its a game
Its a game in testing
Things Will Balance out in there own time
Devs already Fixed the stack issue you cried about
ENOUGH!/me Walks away from conversation because it is feutal to even argue this situation even worse it is un honourable
Good luck in your quest to totally mess over the community since some it takes a week or more to come up with the tria to pay for a good weapon
Rememeber for every action is a reaction
This is my last time posting on this thread
I need to focuse on something more Intel
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Second answer, using the 300 quality weapon as a template to craft other such weapons without having the skill to do so is an exploit and a bug. It's unfair towards those crafters who do not posses these high quality weapons. So if you want to play fair, no you can't use it that way. Technically you could be punished by the GM team for doing this but you won't be able to do it for much longer anyway.
I expect a nice high quality weapon wipe as soon as the next version becomes available.
Well, it seems that nearly everybody who buys a Q300 weapon supports crafters which use a bug, and bugusing = cheating.
So, all the money you paied for your Q300 you paid maybe to a cheater, you paid him/her and he/she cheated for you...
That's why I asked to wipe them, to wipe them before the first honest crafters who worked hard to do a Q300 are able to do some legaly.
It's no big thing to ask for a wipe! When everybody could find a silverweave and big amount of trias there were wiped to. But the difference is, that there everybody had the same chance to find the tria and silverweaves. Q300 copies could only be made by players who made them in the old crafting time, so it's even more unfair.
But, the stacking system changed now, the max quality becomes the average of the stacked items, so there is no way to copy Q300 now anymore, but there are a lot of crafter who have still mules full of high quality selfmades, so it will last a long time until the price for selfcrafted weapons made by honest crafters will be worth the work they have done to train to make good weapons.
And who knows lorac, maybe our characters know each other better than you think, maybe you would not be so bold to tell me that there is no Intel in this topic, and you won't tell me something about maxed stats and better weapons...maybe
It's a general problem that the answers an a post depends more on the person who posted something and less on the content. This problem can be found everywhere and is quite normal, we all are humans, but I have to say that in this forum it is in a much higher gear than it is normal.
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I never said there was no intell in thread
Do not put words in my mouth
I said i need to focus on something more intel
this means I need to redirect my energys
I am a grown up
The Devs killed the stacking
They limited the ability to hold things in your inv
if you you actually believe in mules and you load it up and it is over weight you can not trade any more
you can do nothing!!! but sit
then also food for thought
the old Q300s are now a Q250
so how can some one clone a Q300 now
I dont know if you use a different name in game
But Lorac is Lorac
So with that said
I ment no Insult in the post before
I never mentioned Maxed stats
I said i take it you do not have the stats to equip the good weapons with the modifiers
They wiped the Stackable Q300s
they killed the stack repair bug
So with that said And I did choose my words carfully because it seems you have a way of turning it around where i was slaming you
when infact all i was doing is pointing out my View on this issue
and yes i did say i am glad i dont know you in game
this is because I feel there is no honour in what what you are asking them to do
it seems no matter what they do to fix the issue you are not going to be happy till Every person who can make the swords or who own them Suffers
just so you can make a lousy tria
so to me as i said in last post this is focusing on self and self only
I dont have this kind of logic
I help others before i even think about my self ingame
And I am not saying this is what you do
I am saying this is what it sounds like
and yes i did look once again at this thread
only because i wanted actually listen and see if you had a clearer point of view for me that has not been stated
At first you said Old Q300s
now the Old Q300s are gone
one night they were Q300s the next day they were Q250s
but with that said i am wraping this up
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I suspect I've been getting ripped off then.
And I spent around 400k tria on getting what I thought were genuinely crafted weapons so that I could supply guildmates with them.
Oh well. If they get wiped they get wiped. Not the end of the world. :)
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Yes, Drah, it is possible that you got ripped of, ripped off from a cheater. The person who earned the 400k earned them with using a bug.
But now nobody will be able to craft new ones in this way.
@lorac: I don't understand what you want to say to me. I already said that the bug is fixed now. But why do you talk about mules that carry over weight? If I have only one mule that can carry 220 weight then the mule could carry 220 daggers. Imagine I have 10 mules, and imagine there are 10 crafters who have each 10 mules. Maybe now you can imagine why the weapon market will be saturated in future from the mules, and why it would last a long time until the econemy with weapons will be balanced.
I have no idea if you ever crafted a weapon, but if you woul spend month at the anvil you woul recognise the problem that was. But, now it is fixed except the fact that there are still big amount of the weapons. And: there are still Q300 weapons in the game, even after the update, they aren't now Q250.
Maybe I should tell some background nowledge to clarify:
- there was a time everybody was able to do high quality weapons, even with a quality over 1000
- then there was a downgrading for all this weapons to Q250
- after the downgrading there was a little time everybody (without any skills in blacksmith and weapon making) was able to do Q300 weapons
- then there was a new crafting system implemented, the system that is the actuell system: now you are able to make a Q40 weapon with much luck with blacksmith and weaponmaking level 0. But, person who made a Q300 in the short time during the downgrading to Q250 and the change of the crafting system was able to make copies of them, as much as they liked to do. They just made a weapon (maybe Q25) and stacked it on a Q300 they have crafted (only if they were the crafter) and repaired both weapons up to Q300/300.
That's what I complained about, and why I asked to wipe the weapons, because they are made with the help of a bug. And we all use these bugcrafted weapons now, we paid the cheater to cheat for us.
In my opinion you are afraif of a wipe because you spend your money for the bugcrafted weapons. But: Ignorance is no excuse and we are testers, so you have to live with a wipe, if it is coming. As I said: The silverweaves and trias you could find everywhere was wiped too.
To the issue about better weapons than Q300/300 I say nothing because I don't know them. Though I am a very experienced player and my char can equip all weapons that don't need over level 200 in a stat. Saying 'better weapons' means: making more damage in the same time.
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And what makes you think Q300s cant be made the honest way?
yes i am also a crafter of Battle Axes and Long swords and Short Swords
Incase you did not know
It is able to be done the legal way and honest way
Not all Q300s are bug300s
This is what i have been trying to say
And Also the bugged crafted Swords are now a 250/250 NOT A 300/300
I Too am Very experienced in the game
I go back 2 years atleast
So yes I two know what your saying I dont totally disagree but inturn i dont agree
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And what makes you think Q300s cant be made the honest way? (http://And what makes you think Q300s cant be made the honest way?)
They can be made in a honest way, but there was no crafter at this time I asked at first for a wipe able to make a Q300 weapon by the honest way. That's why I said to make a wipe soon before the first crafters make them by the honest way. You will need blacksmith lvl 30 and weaponmaking at least lvl 30 I think, maybe even lvl 40. Nobody had this level as I asked the first time, and the most common way even one hour before the update was to stack and repair. I know a lot of crafters who made and selled bugused Q300 weapons, most of them told me not to betray them. I won't do this, no, but I wanted to achieve a fair game for all, that's why I tried to sensitise the community to this bugused weapons.
And no, Q300/300 are still Q300! At leat the ones I have. And I know that they are bugcrafted.
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Bepules
Now what you are saying is making since
( Being serious here no sarcasum in the above statment)
Problem with text is that it is hard to desern what the person is trying to say
( sorry for the typo is it is )
Now I really did not check the Date of the first post so in a way i jumped on this thread way too hard
I Do agree that the Exploited Swords / Daggers Should not exsist.
But on the other hand
Now with the time lapse being able to know for sure who has a bugged 300 would be hard to Distinguish
and so the problem lies with the fact that the only way to truly know which swords are bugged is by looking at the Creation date in the weapons discription file in the inv script on Every player
this would take ages to do
They could delete all Q300s but with that said
there would be a magor set back on every one
the steel stocks would be harder to make since the casters and fernaces would be swormed
and this would Spike the cost of steel
making the poor grow rich in a historic rate
There would be more Theifs
Gold would amount to nothing
well until the Sheild and armour will be implimented anyways
Which is where i will turn my focus
to Armour and Sheilds
I went to Axe creation because there is not much out there for high quality battle axes
but found the training buggy I could make 1 Q200 axe out of 20 -30 Battle Axes made
So i went back to sword and dagger crafting till they look into the crafting on the Axes
I say all this so you infact know that I am speaking from actual experience
But I was wrong with how i perseved this thread
and In the simplest of details i overlooked
I am sorry for the way i worded things and also for the statement saying i am glad i dont know you in game
That this thread was dishonorable
As i mis took exactly what was being said
I do appriceate the trying to put all of us on an even playing feild
as do probably most
thanx for your time
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This discussion is pointless ... everything will be wiped at one point or another :P
I think the 300 quality weapons to be wiped as soon as the Devs are certain that there are no more exploits possible in that area and even if they aren't then, they will be later on along with everything else. The fact that honest work will also be lost doesn't matter, all of us players will eventually lose everything .. if we can't deal with that we're playing/testing the wrong game.
Important: All Characters Will Be Wiped before 1.0 release (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0)