PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Jekkar on June 20, 2007, 01:29:20 am
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I'd like to know why the following is allowed and why it was allowed by the gm team (thus sayest the GM)
http://vaalnor.mine.nu/shot91.jpg
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Parts of the log:
Ronarl says: Miss Eliere i gave you a chance to earlier. But OK you next m'lady.
Ronarl says: Hmm she looked Tougher than that.
Ronarl says: I believe Zaahn was next.
Ronarl says: Rinha yes. I believed you missed your chance on my last visit did you not?
First off: Why is this GM allowed to kill people on the plaza, even if the GM was rp-ing a villain it's still a ridiculous action to make.
Second: Why is he allowed to disrupt the experience of other's with bad spelling and bad rp. If i'm not mistaken any GM should have sufficient skill in spelling and a certain level of proffesionalism.
I wonder how this idea was passed, because I see no story or use in the whole thing.
(Complaint)
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Well GM's can do whatever they want pretty much. i don't think there's much to do about this one.
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Sorry you feel that way. I showed up, and while I didn't fight, I did watch. I thought it was great to see so many players gathering together for an event. Those actually fighting seemed to enjoy it too, at least until the server died >:( . I was also glad to see that he first fought the players that he hadn't fought before. Perhaps it even got some new members interested in duelling? I'm sure that the GMs weigh the IG codes versus the value of of the RP to the community and make the best decision they can. I'm glad they put so much effort into keeping us mere citizens entertained :) !
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I am a little confused. ???
Why is this GM allowed to kill people on the plaza, even if the GM was rp-ing a villain it's still a ridiculous action to make.
Only "allowed to" as far as the duel challenge/accept system allows, right? People not agreeing to duels weren't being killed were they?
Second: Why is he allowed to disrupt the experience of other's with bad spelling and bad rp.
I read the log snippet several times and I'm having a hard time finding what word was misspelled.
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Players aren't allowed to complain about Game Masters on the forums, I thought?
Though it would be cool if the officials realised dueling on plaza is illegal, yeah.
Ronarl says: Miss Eliere i gave you a chance to earlier. But OK you next m'lady.
^ this line is either sad or amusing. I can't really decide :P
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I read the log snippet several times and I'm having a hard time finding what word was misspelled.
Try again.
Maybe this one will convince you: (01:10:38) Ronarl tells you: Feel free i am not new i have been here i long time and i know the rules
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I don't care about the spelling per se ... foreign people don't always have it easy in that department but I have to admit that I'm ashamed about the poor RP plots being played out by GM's in events lately. I haven't witnessed this one but some things that come to my mind with this thread are ...
First of all, like Draklar said there has been a recent law that forbids dueling of any kind within city walls, as can be read in Jayose's library. This means that this evil character, if RPing properly, would be arrested by Hydlaa's guards quickly. This also means that this GM is giving a very bad example in the middle of the plaza to any old and new players.
Secondly, using duels when surrounded by a horde of angered citizens is not a realistic approach of the combat that might be triggered here. Picking off people one by one through duels wouldn't happen in these situations. You'd be ganged up on and torn to shreds by the people, no matter how strong you are.
Thirdly ... this is only a guess but for a GM it would be very easy to max out a character, provide it with very strong equipment and just go on a killing spree. This most likely encourages powerlevelers and duelers, not roleplaying.
I only wish I heard more about well built out stories and original plotlines in GM events. Sadly I'm seeing them quickly degrade into "Hey an Event, hurry forget about good roleplay because there's a reward and I want it!" type situations. Roleplaying isn't being encouraged in the events I've witnessed so far.
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I do think spelling, punctuation and grammar is something that is worth considering. Some people dismiss it, and I often do as well, but it does get aggravating after a time to see simple things that take no effort, like using the Shift key once in a while, being ignored. I believe all members of the GM team should make a good faith attempt to present themselves in a professional manner. I like playing PlaneShift often to get out of online chat with all kinds of lolz zomg lawl language floating around, and into a world where I can relax and just talk. I'm not an avid roleplayer myself, and I don't attend many events. Ever since Zan put on the Hydlaa Festival of the Hunt I have been unable to find any event remotely matching it. I tried a few and was always terribly disappointed with not just the grammar and spelling, but the overall organization and stories in general. I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for, but whatever it is I've never found it. Induane is a simple miner, so I spend most of my time mining and most of my interaction with other players occurs there. When I sell my gold I try to auction it with little tag lines and such - "15 pieces of high quality gold ore for sale. I hand picked these myself so I can guarantee they are of the highest quality" - stuff like that, but its about the extent of the RP I involve myself in these days. Occasionally when there are several people mining I'll tell an amusing story about "previous mining experiences" and people seem to enjoy that, but I don't do it often.
I think there is a deeper root problem here, and that is the dissolving of the RM team before it even really got started. Having people whose sole job is events allows greater focus. It also means they can plan events further ahead, consult with others, and in general present events in a thoughtful manner. Most events these days seem to occur as an after thought or at the random whim of someone. I'm thankful people are taking the initiative to host events, its better than nothing I suppose, but it had the chance to be better and was intentionally changed to not be so, which in my opinion is a travesty.
Most people don't have the guts to name names or post complaints of this nature but I do think its something that is worth discussing.
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Ronarl says: Miss Eliere i gave you a chance to earlier. But OK you next m'lady.
Ronarl says: Hmm she looked Tougher than that.
Ronarl says: I believe Zaahn was next.
Ronarl says: Rinha yes. I believed you missed your chance on my last visit did you not?
Somehow reminds me of the start of the Roofwalker event. I'm sorry to say this, but it's lousy RP. As far as I understood, Ronarl is supposed to be a villain. But why is a villain allowing everyone to take turns fighting him? Normally, he'd be torn apart by the crowd. The next thing I dislike is his language. It's the language I'd expect of a government official, but not of a villain. Isn't everyone in the GM department supposed to be a good RPer?
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Maybe this one will convince you: (01:10:38) Ronarl tells you: Feel free i am not new i have been here i long time and i know the rules
Oh! Unless you meant that "I" should have been "a", then you must have meant punctuation, not spelling.
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Well missed punctuation in that sense creates a hard to follow run on sentence. While not bad spelling, it is definitely bad grammar.
Even then though, correctly punctuated and correcting incorrect words you get this:
Feel free. I am not new. I have been here a long time and I know the rules.
Its still not particularly good. When you say "I have been here a long time" it makes the entire "I am not new" sentence totally redundant.
I am not skinny. I am overweight. <--- Duh you're not skinny... who talks like that?
I'd just have made it simpler:
Feel free, I've been here long enough to know the rules.
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It's only partly annoying because of bad spelling, the thing that annoys me most is that a GM is supposed to be good with words, almost an artist. It makes the experience all the better. You're not going to ask a scribe to write something for you if he doesn't hold enough skill in the use of words do you?
The whole situation isn't right, I wonder why this event was held, I see no use in it. And I fear for the worst if idea's like this get put through every time.
It all looks a bit absurd to me really.
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I'm going to hold off commenting on this scenario before Kerol, but Induane: that's really silly nitpicking. That sentence has 0 things wrong with it.
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I think it's not so much about spelling or punctuation here but the huge lack of depth and realism in his character. I know you can't really side against your fellow teammembers Kary :P but you have to admit, Induane has a point about the RM team disappearing ... things have been going downhill since it was disbanded.
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I wasn't meaning to really nitpick, but to point out that while it may not have been terrible it is definitely awkward. I'm not the brightest candle on the cake so maybe other people got it all on the first read, but I had to read it twice to make sure I understood it. I don't think that every GM should be an oxford scholar but it would just be nice if they took the time to at least try to use some capital letters and punctuation from time to time.
Looking back at the post, the 2nd part about idea redundancy sounds pretty nitpicky to me too, but it really was not my intent, it just came out wrong.
a story like
once upon a time there was a story and the story was good there was a knight who was brave and valiant and he was not a coward so the many ladies loved him too bad though he was a knight with a vow of celibacy who was this knight? it is i and this is my story....
Just looks nicer and more professional like this:
Once upon a time there was a story and the story was good. There was a knight who was brave and valiant. The many ladies loved him though since he was a knight he had taken a vow of celibacy. Who was this knight? It is I and this is my story....
Obviously my story telling skills suck horribly but it was just an example of polishing a turd a little bit ;)
I don't want to nitpick so that GM's quite putting on events because they feel worthless or unappreciated. I think a little bad punctuation spelling and grammar is better than no events at all, but a combination of bad rp, bad spelling/punctuation/grammar and weak ideas to me isn't really a good thing. PS can be much more than that if people take the time.
It's only partly annoying because of bad spelling, the thing that annoys me most is that a GM is supposed to be good with words, almost an artist.
Not everyone is an artist with words. From my story above you can see that I am not. As a result were I a GM I'd probably try to take a role which didn't require much speaking and let the community be more inventive. I could be some mute person or a wild man that only grunts. Ugg Ugg UUUGGG!!! ;)
In all honesty I really really really wasn't trying to nitpick, but if this sentence has 0 things wrong with it then I'm a flying spaghetti monster:
Feel free i am not new i have been here i long time and i know the rules
I'm not looking for some unobtainable perfection here nor some difficult gold standard. Heck if it had just had a few capital letters and some punctuation thrown in it would have been much much better. Now if the ideas and RP had been fantastic it would be a different story since I think those go above and beyond spelling, punctuation, and grammar, but in this case it was a bad combination of all of these issues. I understand time constraints might force you to go with a weak idea, but at least try to present it nice in that case.
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Induane: I was referring to your modified sentence. I understood it just fine, especially when you take into consideration that in roleplay characters have accents and different speech patterns. If a character has the tendency to make a redundant statement here and there, are you going to fault the player? I understand what you mean about punctuation, and I completely agree. But that's not what I'm posting about.
Zan: I'm not on the GM team. The reason I'm holding off from commenting is because I'm in no position to - I have no idea what happened, why it happened, etc. So I too am going to wait for a statement from the GM team and take it from there.
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hostile GM team takeover attempts + acraigs law = no more RM team = decline of sponsored rp
^ simplified version
* Note: acraigs law was a name given to a term and while it was attributed as from him I believe the law was instituted when he was fed information from an unreliable source that was false so I'm not trying to point out acraig or blame him for anything, its just that most of the GM's who were around at that moment will know exactly what that means.
I understood it just fine, especially when you take into consideration that in roleplay characters have accents and different speech patterns. If a character has the tendency to make a redundant statement here and there, are you going to fault the player?
If I judge the rest of the RP session correctly from the snippets posted then I think to assume some intentional speech pattern of a character is giving it a bit too much credit ;) I do start taking those things into account as RP becomes more in depth and I get swept into stories, but you have to immerse people first.
In any case I'm nitpicking again :whistling: I do look forward to a GM team member to post, particularly one who was around when a hostile attempt by a few people to remove pogo from GM team leadership.
Ahh politics!
Zan: I'm not on the GM team. The reason I'm holding off from commenting is because I'm in no position to - I have no idea what happened, why it happened, etc. So I too am going to wait for a statement from the GM team and take it from there.
That takes some integrity :) Many people like to hold opinions about things they aren't really in a position to understand and then defend them like crazy. ( I'm sure I'm guilty of this. )
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Hmm... One problem I've seen here is the actual lack of speech pattern. I mean, there's no pattern that may allow you to figure the character out. Instead it's very random. For example:
OK and m'lady used in same sentence. One thing "OK" is not a word -> "okay" is more correct.
But the problem is, "okay" belongs to lower speech, whereas "m'lady" to higher. Normally you'd expect "m'lady" connected with "very well" or some such. "All right" could do, but I think it's very neutral. Things like that are making a pattern. If it's random, it can be very disruptive.
Said that, I appreciate attempts at creating speech different from the casual English. It can take you away from the same old boring version you hear everyday. However, I think this requires a bit more effort. And I won't really lash out at punctuation and grammar. I don't like it when it isn't used properly, but I had it much worse when I first came to Planeshift. Still, I'm not sure if this goes well with the GM function, especially if they took over the RM part of the deal.
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Official reply from the GM team
#1: This event was approved and carried out as such. It is an exception to the rule to introduce further plot elements and requires no further explanation.
#2: We will raise our efforts regarding correct grammar and spelling within the context of events.
#3 We will no longer tolerate any /tells during an event that are not absolutely required, since such distractions cause additional stress and raise the probability of making mistakes a lot.
With kind regards,
Your GM team
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Seems to me that the easy way to reduce complaints about spelling and "RP depth" is to simply not do any more events.
If you are annoyed by them, go somewhere else or logout.
If you are someone who supports the idea of GM events, you should be *encouraging* more events, not discouraging them by complaining about the few that get done.
Just my $.02,
Vengeance