PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaityra on July 22, 2007, 01:27:24 pm
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Hello!
Imagine the follow situation:
You cut a corner in a crowded city. Suddenly someone with two swords in his hand runs into you and you feel a heavy pain in your chest all of a sudden.
"Excuse me, Sir" *coughs blood* "Is this your sword in my..." *coughs* "...chest..." *faints and dies*
Think that this is just made up? Well, I have to tell you that this happens in PS all the time.
I think it is ok to run with drawn weapons in the wilderness but in a crowded city? So, please sheath your weapons when entering a town to evoid certain accidents. I'm pretty sure that you don't need your weapons within the walls of a peaceful town.
With kind regards
Kaityra
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True. However one would wonder if there are any laws against it. Will the guard arrest me if I have my swords drawn? If so then people should stop. Unless they are being a criminal it would be considered OOC to have your swords drawn if its illegal. If swords drawn in the city is not illegal then this is an IC issue. You can't tell someone who usually has his/her swords drawn ICly to stop OOCLy. In that case you'd have to try and get people to actually listen to you ICly which sounds much more fun ;D
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I agree that running around with weapons drawn inside cities is generally not a good thing IC. Guards will probably be a lot more suspicious of someone walking around swinging two longswords around as compared to someone who has them sheathed. As for people who don't necessarily want to be forced into character, it's easier than having to go into your inventory and drag the item(s) on and off their hands every time they enter or leave the wilderness (for example, someone fighting to increase/buy more skills, or someone selling animal parts). I tend to do it a lot myself, but my computer also tends to choke and stutter in crowded areas. I think for now, until the guards take an official stance on whether bare weapons are legal or illegal, it's probably safe to assume no one's going to unintentionally spear you on a street corner :D
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In concept agree with what you said, Kaityra. That said, though, I also have to agree with what Adiron said.
I have had Shang putting her weapons away upon entering cities of late for exactly the reason Kaityra states, but last night, one of Shang's swords disappeared while she was sheathing it. The sword didn't appear in her inventory, it didn't appear on the ground -- it just disappeared. I immediately logged out then back in thinking that perhaps my client had crashed without warning again -- but nothing.
Considering how glitchy the game is, I think we can reasonably expect players to continue to move their belongings around as little as possible. Fortunately the weapon I lost this time was not a very valuable one, but that may not be true the next time it happens.
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It would be nicer if the weapons stayed out, but in non-combat mode, the hardpoint (place where items attach to) moved from the hand to the back or waist. Then there would be no loss of items, increased ease of use, and increased realism.
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While I agree in principle that weapons should not be carried about in town, sheathing a weapon is not currently an option. It would be nice if weapons had a accompanying sheath and to have a /sheath command that displays the weapon at your hip. Like Under the Moon says, that would be more realistic, but currently it's either in hand or in your inventory. (And in RL stashing 2 longswords out of sight in your backpack isn't very likely either.)
This isn't just nitpicking. In addition to glitches as pointed out by Shangreloo, there are game imposed limits on moving things from hand to inventory that make this sometime not even possible. Try putting your sword in your pack when you're carrying a full load of gold. In reality this wouldn't be a problem because your weapon would go in a sheath separate from your pack (would likely already be there before you even started mining), and there would be no conflict. In-game however, this is a conflict with your pack being already full. And especially since people are using seduction weapons to increase the load they can carry, unequipping the weapon after adding 5 more ore simply isn't possible.
It also isn't possible to repair a weapon without having it in hand. I personally would not want to have to leave town every time I needed to repair.
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Hello!
The reason why I wrote it was that I think that most players don't even think about it although this is a roleplaying game. Strangely enough despite the technical limits some players (this includes me) are able to put their weapons away when in town. I wonder how this can be...
With kind regards
Kaityra
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This thread reminded me(surprisingly) of Fallout 2. In a city there, you had to put down your weapons before you could enter, and if you walked as a gun or sledgehammer-totting freak, the cops would shoot you to death.
But anyway, even though it is singleplayer, I only had guns when I know I needed them, because before doing any action, when you have a gun or melee weapon, the character unequips the gun temporarily(with the animation of it) and then do it, what becomes annoying after some time inducing you to not have weapons equipped when you don't need them.
What I am trying to pull is a simple game mechanic: that people totting their weapons around should have some limitations on the way they interact with others and with the world.
For example, your character shouldn't be able to make any friendly gesture(/greet , /salute, etc.) with a knife in hand, for obvious reasons, neither you could trade things while wielding a weapon, and so on. I hope this simple thing won't be dismissed, as it is much closer and easier to be developed than smart NPC guards that put you in jail or perhaps even kill you like those mentioned cops from the beggining of this post. And also it's a much subtler way to encourage people to not have their weapons always equipped around, and the subtler is usually better: a suggestion generates less grief than an order or rule.
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When I first started playing, it was pretty much a player enforced de facto standard that citizens sheathed their weapons in town. This was enforced ICly with an exchange that went something like this:
Sir Dwarf: Sir, sheath your weapon please, there is no danger here. Hydlaa is a safe place.
New Citizen: Huh? I don't wanna...I don't have to. You can't make me. Neener Neener Neener.
Sir Dwarf: Sir, I shall ask you one more time. Please sheath your weapon.
New Citizen challenges Sir Dwarf to a duel
Sir Dwarf accepts and hits New Citizen with one Energy Arrow, sending him to the DR.
New Citizen humbly returns to Harn's a short time later with his weapons put away.
While I agree in principle that weapons should not be carried about in town, sheathing a weapon is not currently an option.
There is no animation or sheath on the belt, agreed. You can however create some shortcuts such as this:
Shortcut 1:
Name: Daggers
/equip dagger
/equip dagger
keyboard control: k[nife] # use whatever works for you :)
Shortcut 2:
Name: Sheath
/dequip dagger
/dequip dagger
HTH,
Beliy
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Is that a battle axe in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
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Hello!
Is that a battle axe in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Thanks for enlighten us with this comment full of wisdom. Care to explain the deeper meaning hidden within it?
With kind regards
Kaityra
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Hot keys are our friends. With a single key stroke, one can return weapons to inventory, and strip off all of his/her armor (Because I don't think it's too realistic that most of us run around in full armor constantly, either, regardless of how nice it is to finally have equipped armor show on the model). Another key can reverse the process. Personally, I would rather risk an inventory glitch and stay IC. Granted, their may be characters for whom it's perfectly IC to leave weapons drawn and armor on, but this has to be a small percentage. I don't know if Hydlaa has an ordinance against this sort of behavior, but I would expect most players, good or evil, who aren't completely reckless to see it as a bad idea.
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I see a simple solution for this ... reduce running speed to a bit faster than walk speed when something is equiped/unsheated in the hand slots.
It's realistic since nobody will sprint with a sword or axe in their hands and risk cutting or impaling themselves. Generally any decently sized object will slow a person down when it's carried in their hands. I bet you'll see a lot more people sheathing things if it makes them move around faster.
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I second that, Zan. Anyone trying to run with something in their hands in real life will easily agree that it slows you down.
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I see a simple solution for this ... reduce running speed to a bit faster than walk speed when something is equiped/unsheated in the hand slots.
It's realistic since nobody will sprint with a sword or axe in their hands and risk cutting or impaling themselves. Generally any decently sized object will slow a person down when it's carried in their hands. I bet you'll see a lot more people sheathing things if it makes them move around faster.
Plus this solution can be extended by more aspects of what I previously posted here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29410.msg337598#msg337598): block trade and the use certain skills while weapons are drawn, block friendly gestures like /greet as well. In fact it wouldn't be bad to block mining if someone is wielding an off-hand weapon together with the pick, it is sadly quite common and very unrealistic too. Blocking people from buying/selling from NPCs with weapons drawn also is another idea(See, how am I going to unload a sack of ores to Harnquist with my hands holding two claymores? This is one of the examples of how unrealistic things can be). Slowing things with weapons drawn isn't bad either. Finally the most radical solution would be to instead of blocking, add the possibility that people can hurt themselves if they are constantly wavering weapons, though then it would be quite "noob"-unfriendly.
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Hello!
Is that a battle axe in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?
Thanks for enlighten us with this comment full of wisdom. Care to explain the deeper meaning hidden within it?
With kind regards
Kaityra
Basically its one of those really corny sayings for a guy with a hardon.
And pretty much anything can be put in the pocket. Though its customary to have somthing noticable in place for the gesture to be truely understood.
Feeling enlightened?
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Hello!
Imagine the follow situation:
You cut a corner in a crowded city. Suddenly someone with two swords in his hand runs into you and you feel a heavy pain in your chest all of a sudden.
"Excuse me, Sir" *coughs blood* "Is this your sword in my..." *coughs* "...chest..." *faints and dies*
Think that this is just made up? Well, I have to tell you that this happens in PS all the time.
I think it is ok to run with drawn weapons in the wilderness but in a crowded city? So, please sheath your weapons when entering a town to evoid certain accidents. I'm pretty sure that you don't need your weapons within the walls of a peaceful town.
With kind regards
Kaityra
Sorry friends , i have a little problem . Can you help me please ?
I am level 85 in melee , my fists are weapons now . What can i do ? I must put my fists in my pockets ?
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Does you're character knock a tooth every time brings food to his mouth? If he can keep that from happening, he can certainly walk/run and and not punch anyone in the way.
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Does you're character knock a tooth every time brings food to his mouth? If he can keep that from happening, he can certainly walk/run and and not punch anyone in the way.
You are right , i have level 100 at swords(max) so i can run with them in my hands , and never i will cut somebody in my way . Did you see ? My swords level is higher then my bare hands level so is more safe for all to be with swords in my hands then without them . Btw we are in a medieval world or not ? If we are in a medieval world , the weapons are parts of my body ...( sorry about my poor english)
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You are right , i have level 100 at swords(max) so i can run with them in my hands , and never i will cut somebody in my way . Did you see ? My swords level is higher then my bare hands level so is more safe for all to be with swords in my hands then without them . Btw we are in a medieval world or not ? If we are in a medieval world , the weapons are parts of my body ...( sorry about my poor english)
Um, no. Actually, many different kinds of "no."
First, this isn't "medieval" world, it's a fantasy world with a relatively medieval feel. But that's quibbling.
Secondly, owning a weapon does not make it physically a part of your body (fists excluded) although sometimes one who is highly skilled with a weapon will be described as "using their [weapon](s) like they are an extension of (his/her) body." It's just a description, simile I think, not actual physical melding.
Thirdly, being a skilled swordmaster, you should be [more] aware of how deadly a blade can be, and realistically (IC) you should be [more] inclined to put them away in towns, not wave them around because you can avoid hitting people when doing so.
Fourth, inconvinience aside, it's just common courtesy not to go toting around your blades in public. Planeshift is [very] heavy on in-character roleplaying, from what I've observed, and as has been stated, it's just not pleasant to talk to someone while they're clutching a pair of blades in your general direction.
Also, I grant you that the "skill level" arguement is a clever one, but logically flawed. Practical control over your hands is one thing, skill in melee damage is quite another. There's a world of difference between the hand-eye coordination needed to get a beer to your mouth and knowing how/where to strike an enemy.
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I see a simple solution for this ... reduce running speed to a bit faster than walk speed when something is equiped/unsheated in the hand slots.
It's realistic since nobody will sprint with a sword or axe in their hands and risk cutting or impaling themselves. Generally any decently sized object will slow a person down when it's carried in their hands. I bet you'll see a lot more people sheathing things if it makes them move around faster.
Plus this solution can be extended by more aspects of what I previously posted here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=29410.msg337598#msg337598): block trade and the use certain skills while weapons are drawn, block friendly gestures like /greet as well. In fact it wouldn't be bad to block mining if someone is wielding an off-hand weapon together with the pick, it is sadly quite common and very unrealistic too. Blocking people from buying/selling from NPCs with weapons drawn also is another idea(See, how am I going to unload a sack of ores to Harnquist with my hands holding two claymores? This is one of the examples of how unrealistic things can be). Slowing things with weapons drawn isn't bad either. Finally the most radical solution would be to instead of blocking, add the possibility that people can hurt themselves if they are constantly wavering weapons, though then it would be quite "noob"-unfriendly.
Very good idea... take the Klyro model as an example... If you /greet while wielding a weapon, you stab yourself in the head, not exaclty condusive to greeting a fellow player.
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I agree this is an overlooked element on the part of many supposedly "good" rpers.
Very much like me and some devs making it rain and watching as everyone just stood in it :)
\\o//
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There have been a lot of good ideas listed on this thread. As for what I see now, while people do run around with weapons drawn there are those who put them away, or RP sheathing their weapons and have their descriptions written to support such an action. My response when crowded by someone with weapons drawn is to glance pointedly at them (specifically their weapons), most people will then put their weapons away and typically apologize. Those that don't, I just physically move a bit away from them, out of striking range, and continue on.
As for the rain, I happen to like it. I did try observing it from the second level porch area at Kada's one day but the funny thing was that the rain fell right through the porch roof.
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First, this isn't "medieval" world, it's a fantasy world with a relatively medieval feel. But that's quibbling.
"please roleplay your caracter,you are in a medieval world" Laanx words . So im in a medieval world and i will keep my swords in my hands . Try to read something about middle age , i love that world .
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"Peace tying" is a common term when talking about weapons and towns in 'medieval' times, Lupul. Look that up.
*edit* I happen to stay indoors in the game when it starts to rain. Hyuken hates wet fur. Though, Aeshion does like to walk in a light, warm shower, so you may have seen me. ;)
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[post removed]
No sense arguing over the nit-picky stuff.
Lupul, if it's just a matter of convinience, try the quick shortcut commands mentioned earlier in the thread. But either way, unless you're trying to threaten someone (and I imagine the "guards" would have something to say about that), there's no reason to go wandering around town with your hilts in hand.
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I can't wait till the "sheep" shearing skills is made available. I can then run around with scissors in my hands and mom can't say diddly. Hooya for fantasy!
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Ok . First - who knows me can tell you :
- i dont run in plazza
- i dont have weapons in my hands , except duel time , when i must kill a big creature (ulbernaut) or practice time
- im ready to help everybody , beeing ready to go from Hydlaa to Ojaveda or Bronze Doors to show the way for somebody new
- i helped and i will help a lot of ppl with money , weapons , informations
- i was/am ready to protect somebody weak or innocent against a stronger or an evil character
- im trying to play fair , to be a kind person , to answer nicelly (sry about my english is not my native) , to help
but ,
PLEASE dont try to force me to do something in a world where you can force somebody only with weapons in your hands !
If anybody wants the XXI century rules in the middle age i will ask him/her nicelly to go and play "Sims"
I love fighting as much as i love to help .
That is the reason for my posts .
Thank you wery much for your time...
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Point noted, you just want to be able to run with weapons in your hands. I'm guessing that the majority of people who aren't interested in decent roleplay also want this while the roleplayers will find it not realistic.
The suggestion is made, feel free to argue it decenty (preferably with arguments that are not about something that has nothing to do with the issue :P) but it's up to the Devs in the end anyway, not us players. We players cannot demand anything and we'll have to put up with everything the Devs 'force' on us or leave and find another game. Considering this is a roleplaying game .. I'm afraid your chances will be slim.
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I think that, if a character enters Hydlaa with weapons drawn, an almighty guard should warn them to sheathe their weapons in the NPC channel. If the character doesn't comply within a certain amount of time, the guard will approach them and begin to attack. Until the character puts away the weapons or escapes, they should continuously be mauled by an onslaught of guards.
AND there's another possibility: instead of killing the character, the guards could capture and throw them into a jail cell (that would require a new area, though). The character would then have two choices, sneakily escape the jail, making a few kills along the way.... or be a goody two shoes and pay the fine.
:woot:
That would have a lot of coding, though. Just being creative.
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A combination of the two? NPC "warning," plus movement penalties and the inability to trade.
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Along with the inability to trade, the NPCs (not guards) could scream their heads off when they see the weapons. That would be hilarious....
-Sneaks up behind Harnquist with a dagger drawn-