PlaneShift
Fan Area => Roleplaying (Communitive Storywriting) => Poetry, Comedy, and other. => Topic started by: Attersson on August 03, 2007, 09:10:08 pm
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On the 7th of Novari, a mindcrafter by the name of Clor Poliero held a very ignorant speech in the chantry of the Bright Compound of the Academy, southeast of Hydlaa. As, today, ignorant speeches pop out as numerous as the weed in the forest, there was no reason to respond to it. I can't explain otherwise the numerous booklets entitled "Poliero's speech to Healers and Mindcrafters" that can be found around, than supposing that he has since had them printed privately. Unfortunately, this speech received some small and well undeserved attention in academic circles. Let us put his misconceptions to their final rest.
Poliero's speech began with an only occasionally factual accounting of famous magicians, from Walr Rinzu, Fertedian Dalko's personal illusionist, to Narth Teder, the famous healer who saved the second level from the grey pestilence. His intent was to show that where it matters, a Mindcrafter relies on the Azure Way, not on the Blue Way, which supposedly is an Illusionist's particular forte (for the divinatory spells). Similarily -- he says -- a Healer does not rely on the Blue Way but on Crystal Way. Allow me first to dispute these so-called "historical" facts.
First of all, Poliero rather pathetically includes Walr Rinzu in his list of "underachieving" mindcrafters. Warl Rinzu was not a mindcrafter of Yliakum -- he was simply an illusionist in the employ of Fertedian Dalko, the worst ruler Yliakum has ever had, thus which spells he cast in the various battles he quoted, are irrelevant, not to say they are only unsupported rumors. Besides, to use an insane traitor as example of rational behavior is an untenable position. What would Poliero prefer? That Walr Rinzu used the Azure Way to destroy Yliakum by a more "traditional" means? That his dire mind-rotting illusions were yet cast in a gracious and magistrale way?
Besides, that's beyond the point. Rinzu did not summon at all, or create, the megaras that crashed into the crystal, by spells of Dark and Brown Ways as Poliero alleges. The truth is that, while a traitor he was, at least as much as his master, we know that, for too many reasons, it was in his interests to keep Dalko alive. Just consider he was his magnate and a good excuse to cover his back for all the magical experiments and atrocities he committed. For the more, Poliero doesn't explain why Walr Rinzu was executed by the population, after Dalko's assassination. Why should they kill him if he helped them? The answer is they knew he was a traitor like Octarch Dalko. Poliero belives the whole point is about the megaras... -- like we cared about this insignificant detail -- we don't know where the megaras came from, but we know for sure they were not a magical conjuration but just authentic megaras hypnotized by the means of Azure Way spells. Rinzu did not use any other way but Azure.
Poliero calls Teder "an accomplished Healer" but not "a powerful student of the Blue Way". This time I congratulate Poliero on correctly identifying a Yliakum Healer, but there are many written examples of Teder's skill in the Blue Way, which is very important a mean for healing too! The fact he is famous for his healing arts doesn't mean that all he knew was the Crystal Way. The Hydlaa librarian, Jayose, for example, wrote extensively about Teder casting the Soul Twist on the tefusangs, making their strength and speed useless by freezing them istantly. The conjurer who commanded those creatures, at that point, quickly fled. What is this, but an impressive example of the Blue Way?
Kerwist was not a Healer from the Academy, but an independent traveller and scholar, to begin with. Let alone the other "facts" he conveniently accounted.
As the basis of his argument, Poliero uses his misrepresentation of history. Even if he had found three excellent examples from history of magicians casting spells... outside their way... — and he didn't! — he would only have anecdotal evidence, which isn't enough to support an argument. I could easily find three or many more examples of illusionists casting healing spells, or healers teleporting. Or - what can I say...- builders cooking their meals even if they are not cooks? There is a time and a place for everything.
Poliero's argument, built on this shaky ground, is that the Blue way is not a true way. He calls it "weak and insignificant" as an avenue of study, and its students inept, with a false sense of calm and self control while they are just retarded. How can one respond to this? Someone who knows absolutely nothing about casting a spell of the Blue Way criticizing the Way for being too simple? Summarizing the Blue Way as learning how to do a "few tricks of everything", to "create light illusions" and to do "weather forecasts" is clearly absurd, and he expounds on his ignorance by listing all the complicated factors studied in his own Azure Way.
Allow me in response to list the factors studied in the Blue Way. The Blue Way is all about purification, so, more than in any other Way, requires a clear mind. While the means of delivering damage are not as powerful and simple as those of the Red Way, which bases exclusively on the strength of the element Fire, in the Blue Way the more gentle element Water has to be used in a much more intelligent way if meant to produce really useful effects. The means of delivering the spell itself, infact, depends on the form of the element water, wether vapor, ice, liquid or used in conjunction with other elements (each with advantages and limits); wether cast at touch, at a range, in stripes, in circles; wether targets the ground, the enemy, the caster itself or is set as a trap to release it's power in a second moment: they are all factors that matter if you wish to produce certain effects or others. Damage is possible in the form of wounding with cones of sharp ice or by other means, like freezing the opponent at all. It may seem the Blue Way requires an excessive amount of redundant thinking and hassle, but its potentials are not inferior than any other school. Just consider that skilled Blue magicians can raise the temperature of the water present in the body, boiling the opponent alive almost effortlessly. Through empathy with Nature, the divination spells are focused on the whole dimension Time, not just future, but past, present and future all together. The understanding of those principles is not banal and requires months if not years of attuning to the Water and steady mind. Blue Way requires quick and analytical thought: what are the possible obstacles and how may they be assailed? What environmental factors must be taken into consideration? Water alone doesn't do as much as water combined with the envornment. Poliero suggests that the Blue Way is shallow and can't be subtle. Per contro I can say that, even if the Azure Way deals with mindcrafting, this doesn't mean it has to be subtle, see for example the bold curses that fall under the mantle of that Way, that recklessly disorder and affect the victims in a way bolder than the Dark Way. The contrary can be said about Blue Way, which grace, even for material and dirty affairs, is always kept in mind by its practitioners as fundament of the Way. The Blue incantations for even the most terrible spells are mistaken by those ignorant in the way as sweet chants and exquisites dances.
The Azure Way and the Crystal Way are two distinct and separate entities from the Blue Way, and Poliero's argument that they should be merged into one is patently ludicrous. He insists — again, a man who knows nothing about the Blue Way, is the one insisting this — that "divination" is part of the mindcrafting, broader art dealt with by the spells of the Azure Way. Similarily he insists that "healing diseases", domain of the Blue Way, is only a subgroup of "healing", specialty of the Crystal Way. The implication is that Life Infusion, to list a spell of Crystal, is a close cousin of Purify Blood, a spell of Blue. It would make as much sense to say that the Azure Way, being all about the influencing of mind, is of no use because the Dark Way exists, which practitioners learnt to disable others' minds at all, at a distance and so Azure Way is part of the Dark Way, as a tool in their hands.
Even if Poliero said this, I would have invited him to go on and tell them at the Dark Compound across the road. After all they were responsible for the grey pestilence he accused in his speech and a Weakness spell couldn't do much harm in his head, considering its current status.
It certainly isn't a coincidence that a "master" of the Azure Way -- or shall I say a kid? -- cast this attack on the Blue Way. The color Azure is, infact, just a light version of Blue and he is well jealous of the vivacity of the color that he lacks and craves.
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I just found this for the first time. I love it! We need more things like this. I demand more of this stuff!
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I know nothing of this matter other than what you, yourself have said, so I am hesitant to proffer remarks, but I'll hazard two, anyway. If your relation of what this Clor Poliero has said is accurate, then he is, indeed, a fool. No Way is more, or less, powerful and useful than any of the others, except in the ability or inability of the manipulator of the Way. A Master of the Crystal Way defeating a student of the Red Way does not prove anything other than that the student is less apt in his ability to control the Way he has chosen to study than the Master. No Way is superior to any of the others.
My second comment comes in line with my first. Beware that you, while justly defending the Blue Way and portraying it's true beauty and power, do not belittle any of the other ways... You make some comments about the Azure Way that are strongly suspect of making you into exactly the same sort of fool that you so violently denounce. No true wizard speaks of things he does not understand, and no true wizard thinks he understands everything.
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Is this.. the return?
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No, but it might lead to it. Don't get your hopes up, though... My general frustration with the game and the dead-end settings is still very much alive.
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Mixed blessings then. Stick around the forums at least for a while. I miss the amusement.
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Hello Phinehas.
Hey, we could get some of this stuff ourselves. Parallo, quickly! Devise an anti-anti-Imperialist essay.
This is very good work indeed. Where's the bloke who typed it?
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I need some anti-Imperialist essays first but we don't want to encourage that :P
The guy vanished methinks.
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Anti-imperialist essays? I believe I could supply a great deal of material on the subject. :P Problem is, they couldn't come from Phinehas, since he is too fond of Sangwa to denounce his organization publicly.
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Uh-oh. Going head to head with Phinehas on politics isn't something I had planned on. I figured it would just be the regular crowd of silly anti-Imperialists that see the word dark and freak out. I can handle them.
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My greetings to the dearest who replied with their comments.
Yesterday before slumber took me over and bent me to bed, a bard from the North managed to mutter a sentence, whispering that my "thread" had gotten attention. As I am no tailor (despite my occasional embroideries), he left more accurate a note, specifying that's a thread used to weave speeches, not cloth. Quite early slumber had struck, thus quite early I awoke and, first thing in the morning, I just found this note.
The kind words of Parallo come as a blessing. I admit I'd given up, noone being interested at all in my words, either for laziness to begin to read or for incompatible taste. I take note that, at least, prose is liked.
To the deepest remark Phinehas arose, I wish to pounder that "superiority" is no posit of the magical theory (due to the impossibility to compare two objects which are simply unique), yet the fact stays that endless potentialities are seen, where the "how" to achieve them is just a way. So Ways differ in the method to approach and tap into unlimited potential. Ways often show the personality of the practitioner as, for example, blacksmith have more "physical" an approach to life, thus they'll find themselves more at ease with the Red Way, which purport is the conjuration of sheer termical energy. It's often taken for granted that doing what one prefers and likes allows better results than performing what one disfavours or hates. Accepting the former statement allows to understand my point of view on this subject, which surely differs from those individuals who expound their comparisons, banalizing Ways into numbers to be confronted.
If however you take into account than anything in life -magic or not- is better performed by the use of intelligence (you correctly call "fool" the lack thereof), then you'd agree that the Ways of magic... or the Ways of life that discourage the use of such intelligence, may tend, depending on the practitioner, to achieve less, compared to Ways which favour that aspect.
It is my belief and that of the practitioners of the Blue Way (which isn't my favourite Way, despite what one could infer), that Blue Way assumes the use of Intelligence as intrinsic. Think what "damage" a thrown glass of water would do. Thus the Blue practitioners are constantly forced into brainstorming and this, in the long run, tends to be the winning approach.
With this in mind, I'd be glad if you joined the Way to try and verify if what I said may be right or wrong for you (if you haven't already done so).
Another Way incentered on the use of Intelligence is the Brown Way. However the earthen nature of such a way drastically clashes with Intelligence, which trascends from Earth. Infact you may think "sky" as mind, earth as body (where my usage of the term "Sky" means the vastity above us and what may be beyond).
As for Sangwa of Thunder (Note: ask your sibling for the meaning of this epithet, I will say no more), while I thank for the courtesy taken into responding, I firmly wish to pinpoint that Fertedian Dalko (see Planeshift Settings) is the classical example of bad politics made by historicians and literates, reason for you fail to classify my speech as anti-Imperialist. However from the Thunder, such a comment comes acceptable, reason for I'm happy for your concern. Parallo should not feel obliged to take the challenge to respond to anything. Instead, I accept the request to write more prose.
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I will simply take the time to say this... beware to whom you presume to teach the Ways of magic. It might show you in rather a bad light, despite all your amusingly and unnecessarily prosaic way of expressing yourself.
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I know nothing of this matter other than what you, yourself have said, so I am hesitant to proffer remarks, but I'll hazard two, anyway. [...]
I apology for my "hazarded" attempt to shed light on my thoughts. The mistake consisted in mistaking your reply for a demand of explaination. I actually ended up in lecturing an enemy, while convinced to please a new friend.
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It is not your explanation that I question... It is your understanding.
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I am loving this. How about a cast-off. Last wizard standing!
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An amusing idea, but I think not... While interesting, this young gentleman has a ways to go before being worth any actual exertion on my part. Now if Druke were here...
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Phinehas, let's agree to disagree.
To yourself only the fabric and the contents of your mind are known, but to my inexistent ambition the title "young gentlemen" is one of the best compliments you could've made, indicating my inexperience and despite that, the grace in my doing to put everyone around me at ease.
I want to make perfectly clear I didn't get paid to write this. Despite what you predicate, I indeed already got your attention because you posted and are posting, noone bound you to, leaving you free to disregard my threads any time, included now.
This young gentleman, me, addresses this thread NOT to the people whose inner youth have completely lost and who exhert manners that of gentle have nothing.
I address this work, instead, to everybody who wishes to read it and either like or dislike it (the story, not me).
Keep personal comments and opinions OUT.
Parallo: I'm still thinking about your idea... if it gets at least "interesting" I promise I'll satisfy your request.
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I don't get this..... What? I've read this thing over and over and can't seem to understand what this whole thread is about.
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It started as a debate over magic theory and deteriorated into unintellectual mud slinging. :P
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Then this thread should belong in General or whatever it's called.
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No, the first post was a nice piece of writing.
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The enormous text in the first post is an eyesore...I can't read it. =/
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To yourself only the fabric and the contents of your mind are known, but to my inexistent ambition the title "young gentlemen" is one of the best compliments you could've made, indicating my inexperience and despite that, the grace in my doing to put everyone around me at ease.
Why yes, I didn't mean it as an insult.
I want to make perfectly clear I didn't get paid to write this. Despite what you predicate, I indeed already got your attention because you posted and are posting, noone bound you to, leaving you free to disregard my threads any time, included now.
This young gentleman, me, addresses this thread NOT to the people whose inner youth have completely lost and who exhert manners that of gentle have nothing.
I address this work, instead, to everybody who wishes to read it and either like or dislike it (the story, not me).
Keep personal comments and opinions OUT.
Ah. So let me understand clearly... You want to state your opinion, yet not take responsibility for it? If only you had told me that you did not intend to stand behind your statements in the first place, then we would not have had this discussion. My apologies.
A word of advice, however... Do not make your speech unnecessarily cumbersome... You have lost some of the meaning and the flow of the words in your attempt to sound educated. I am not saying you are educated, only that every great orator will agree that the simpler something can be said, the better. Also, in some places your statements are downright incomprehensible... "who exhert manners that of gentle have nothing"
It started as a debate over magic theory and deteriorated into unintellectual mud slinging. :P
There was no mud-slinging, Parallo... And your contribution to this thread of single-sentence posts has been completely unnecessary and unhelpful...
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To yourself only the fabric and the contents of your mind are known, but to my inexistent ambition the title "young gentlemen" is one of the best compliments you could've made, indicating my inexperience and despite that, the grace in my doing to put everyone around me at ease.
It started as a debate over magic theory and deteriorated into unintellectual mud slinging. :P
There was no mud-slinging, Parallo... And your contribution to this thread of single-sentence posts has been completely unnecessary and unhelpful...
Well I don't see whats wrong with helping someone like Raa. Though its not the size of the post, its the message it holds.
A simple yes or no can be a post, and have more importance then say a huge paragraph. Because a single word or sentence can give someone knowledge. While say a huge paragraph can... Just leave you saying 'wtf dewd'
Just sayin'... Though I do like this thread. Its full of posts that say "Im better dan u cuz.. I is 1337 dewd, ya digg?"
though I did like the first post, well written. I look forward to more sometime. ;)
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Alright so the point is everyone wants more. I will make more. Fine. Last Stand of Wizards!. Wether it's compliments, general attention or an exchange of words I am seeing positivity in all of this. At least I clashed with Phinehas and heard from the rest.
Using cruder slang like "You want me to KISS" or "tl;dr" does not fall under my proclivities.
Alright: Oh my God, English is the non-asian language with most words in the world. You won't believe me (probably) but there are heavier bricks to cope with. I am indeed keeping it simple, perhaps just not stupid but still simple. If I wanted to start pulling Anglo-Saxon terms, you wouldn't even be able to read... and without any blame on my side at all! I'd be surprised if you did!
Well on the other hand I didn't appreciate the "tl;dr", it simply shows ineptitude. Spare me the predicament of those who arbitrarily chose to be able to read 400 micro-posts and skip a long one. Call me close-minded, but I've had my fill of those complaints and, in the future, I hope they just read or that we mutually disregard.
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Length isn't the problem, it's just the text...it's just so big, I keep rereading lines and they start to hurt after about the middle of the first paragraph. =/
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Length isn't the problem, it's just the text...it's just so big, I keep rereading lines and they start to hurt after about the middle of the first paragraph. =/
Good thing you clarified, I'll shrink it.
And my other story is in the works.
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A word of advice, however... Do not make your speech unnecessarily cumbersome... You have lost some of the meaning and the flow of the words in your attempt to sound educated. I am not saying you are educated, only that every great orator will agree that the simpler something can be said, the better. Also, in some places your statements are downright incomprehensible... "who exhert manners that of gentle have nothing"
Ne sutor supra crepidam
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That is unfair. Phinehas knows what he is talking about.
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Yes, in much the same manner as I know about bureaucracy.
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You should probably attempt to refute what he said then. Speaking in Latin doesn't automatically make an argument sound :P
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Speaking in Latin doesn't automatically make an argument sound :P
Nor is it sound to converse with one who does not wish to listen more so than to talk.
Allow me to take a deeper look into what was previously labeled as "unnecessarily prosaic way of expressing oneself."
If you take into consideration Attersson's overly enthusiastic love for literary art, you may notice certain correlations between what he speaks and how he does.
To raise an obvious example,
"Ways often show the personality of the practitioner" -- I cannot help but notice, the same is expressed through the chosen style ('way', as Phinehas himself called it), yet about the author, and his written art. It is commonly accepted, in much the same manner as what Attersson came to present, that how one speaks, expresses who they are. For this reason, it is only logical to assume the words uttered by the "practitioner" of the given language will usually reveal greater or lesser part of their personality. Perhaps this was Attersson's inspiration?
Perhaps not. But let us move on.
"It is my belief and that of the practitioners of the Blue Way (which isn't my favourite Way, despite what one could infer), that Blue Way assumes the use of Intelligence as intrinsic."
Intelligence. The very same part of one's personality that allows them to construct complex sentences and place them in a coherent structure. Which is but saying, the very same part of one's personality that allowed Attersson to construct the complex commentaries about the Blue Way which we may now experience. Again, correlation between ways of magic and ways of using language are created. Perhaps it would be then sound to give more focus to the structures created by the many languages? Perhaps it would be of some use to observe how languages evolve; how they change along with the societies? Perhaps magic ways are not merely fixed phonomena that their users may, at best, interpret. Perhaps, just like dialects in a language, they are expressions of the society that for any one user may turn into their own personal idiolect?
"yet the fact stays that endless potentialities are seen, where the "how" to achieve them is just a way"
Of course, all of this may be merely my own biased observation, induced by nothing but my interest in structures of various languages. But that is the point. A memorable literary piece is the one open to various interpretations. It is not something you can achieve by a blatant piece of text. And it is not something one would expect from a person obsessed with this form of art.
That, and I would question authority of one, who makes a blatant mistake in a rather simple sentence about education.
"I am not saying you are educated"
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if you two can't get along, i'm going to have to separate you....play nice now. :)
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Don't worry Neko, just a discussion. =]
What you said is valid but at the heart of it, it is only an opinion, much the same as what Phinehas said. Writing is an art and therefore it is impossible to say what will better it and be completely correct. It does not have an objective basis. One person may adore it and another hate it. I think Phinehas has sufficient experience with writing to express his critical opinion, opinion being the main word there.
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What you said is valid but at the heart of it, it is only an opinion, much the same as what Phinehas said.
World would be all the more pleasant... if you could simplify things like this.
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That is the nature of arts. They are subjective, sciences are objective. Art yields no facts, only opinions.
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You have to realise apart from opinions and facts (both of which actually appear in sciences), the world also knows contexts, objectives and difference between words 'opinion' and 'interpretation'.
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I would disagree about the comment on science but that is another discussion altogether. As for the rest, there is no universally good piece of writing. That means that it is subjective and neither you or Phinehas can be totally correct.
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Berger perhaps? I'm not familiar with any of his work save the title of that particular work so I don't know how deep the similarities actually are.
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Well he was born in said year and city and developed a theory I haven't read up on but know to be called 'Society as Objective Reality and as Subjective Reality.' Figured it was a hit. Anyway, yeah, we shall drop it.
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All I have to say Draklar is that I'm surprised at your desire to come into a thread and pick at the most insignificant part of one of my posts. My interest was in the substance of what Atterson was saying, not his style. The comment on the style was added as an afterthought, nothing more. Yes, I daresay that you pulled my literary opinion to pieces, and I don't care(not that I didn't notice a mistake or two in your own post) because it really had nothing to do with the real substance of what I really wanted to discuss. Congratulations on unnecessarily spamming a thread.
Also, your pretty words and supposed aloofness isn't fooling me, I've known you a tad too long for that, my friend. ;)
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Also, your pretty words and supposed aloofness isn't fooling me, I've known you a tad too long for that, my friend. ;)
Then you will also know what vocabulary and structures I used were used merely out of respect for the initial post.