PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Coneitic on August 12, 2007, 04:16:35 am
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heres a nice topic i'd like to discuss and maybe give some insight to the devs thoughts and our own.
Why is the Gm ability so limited? if this game is geared towards quest AND rp then shouldnt the gms have more than the ablity to teleport kick and ban? if a good rp is going on that is acceptable and fun for all players and really gives a chance for new and old players to get involved and enjoy. not saying a planned event necessarily but say a sponaneous one, shouldnt the gm have some options to increase the rp?
in hindsight it would be helping to encourage and push people to rp inbetween quest without taking away from the grind part of the game right?
say someones at the fountain denounce gods.. lol.. persay... would a simple kick/slay/telport really encourage more role play? or maybe a figure posseses the body or say monsters spawn or say the statue moves. something more creative.. it would just encourage more rp right? i dont know hit me back with your responses i'll respond to those and we'll kick off another episode of crossfire.
ps. should i have saved this for the list?
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Well, some GM's do have more powers which are geared towards RP. However, they're only really used during 'official' game events afaik.
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Events with GMs must be approved so that 1) rewards given out can be judged fair by the higher ups, and 2) their actions are not out of line with the settings. Not every roleplay players embark on, no matter how wonderful they may judge it to be, is something the GMs would endorse.
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Why would a GM need to respond to someone slagging the gods unless perhaps it was distracting from an event they were trying to run?
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ps. should i have saved this for the list?
GMs being able to join into random rps that start and help to make them more intresting...yes should have been on the list.
From what I've heard (I might be wrong) gm's aren't supposed to do that because when they become involved in some rps but not others it shows favoritism to certain characters. To avoid that they don't allow their specific gm characters to interfere with rps. They are allowed to use a regular character to be in rps, the only problem is that without the gm powers they can't do as much to promote an rp as they could with the gm powers. Really a confusing topic...Maybe make special rp gms who are only around to help with rps that appear as long as they are in the settings? I mean really who wouldn't get involved in an rp if they saw the character with the yellow letters on top of their head reading "Game Masters" helping out? Whether the tag is OOC or not it does attract peoples attention regardless.
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im not talking about rewards or somewhat messing with settings persay. moreso like random things that can be triggard by good rp. a weapon or armor or item is nice for a gm event. but to alot of people getting their rp that has grown acknowledged by a gm and helped a little to further it is the the best reward possible. it would encourage people to want to rp. and not just big rps either. maybe a gm or too can walk around town as an alt and find rpers and help along not always using commands they have just on some occasions when they feel it can further and better the rp. it doesnt even have to be known who did it or why or what the gm did. tho sometimes it might be obvious. just a small step to encourageing rp.... arg lol my list its dwindling. ok you all can respond im not responding till the list is made... and reviewed... and critisised... and dismissed lol
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If they do it using alts, and they don't use GM commands, how is that different from a regular player going around encouraging RP? What do you need the GM for?
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well i guess come commands would be neccessary. but then it would come down to gms helping rp in turn the game is helping people rp not just leaving it on the players shoulders... there i go again responding lol
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You're going to have to be more specific with what you want the GMs to do.
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If they do it using alts, and they don't use GM commands, how is that different from a regular player going around encouraging RP? What do you need the GM for?
I'm still going to go with the yellow banners on top of the players head. I know its really OOC but the fact is look at gm events. They see the yellow banners and players just run towards the event to find out whats going on. If a gm did the same using an alt would anyone really care? Yes but not that many. Its all the fact that gm characters are seperated from the others. When rping with someone with that banner you suddenly feel like your doing something important instead of just being in some PC's rp who can only do the same things as you. ;D
You're going to have to be more specific with what you want the GMs to do.
Well I'd say it would have to do with the rp your talking about. Maybe someone is trying to steal from another outside of Hydlaa. Maybe a gm thief would appear and make rogues spawn around the player getting attacked. It would make a gms job a lot more which is why I say that they should have the freedom to do it but not make it a job.
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You're going to have to be more specific with what you want the GMs to do.
That would be cool like, when con was in the plaza bashing laanx, if laanx suddenly appeared infront of con, and said something like "So, you wish to take my power, mortal?... try it."
And then everyone would instantly have more fearful respect for laanx once laanx laid down the law... thus some people would be inspired to make a laanx follower guild and in a way re-create the vespers... and then maybe more new comers would become better rpers... yay!.... all that from the gms help by showing that the previously thought impossible is possible, like laanx actually appearing... im sure a gm can change their name to laanx, use a male lemur model, and boost their stats, and then appear infront of con... its easy...
GMs should join rps that deal with the law, or gods... and they need to be big, how big? like when a crowd is gathered, then the law/gods need to take action to defend themselves.
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The gods do not interact with the world directly.
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The gods do not interact with the world directly.
mmm, point made, well how about the law?
Many horrible crimes happen in hydlaa, I know because I comit many of them. Though if a huge crime to happen allow me to refferance the swiping of the laanx scrolls from the temple, couldn't such a big player made event like that call upon hydlaa guards? [one or two game masters dressed as guards?]
sure its not an event, but wouldn't that add to the sense that the guards watch over the citizens when a big problem arises?
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the problem, and why they need approval before they can act, is that the GMs represent the project. Every action they do, sets a precedence for the game. If they do something to further a RP, that does not fall with in the guidelines dictated down to them by the higher ranking officials, their actions cause a mess to the continually of the settings and headaches to the people that have to then try to patch up what happened.
hence, only pre-approved events are allowed to have the "yellow-bannered" characters in them.
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then maybe they should come up with more approved GM events..there really are't that many...and we are not asking for rewards or anything we just want to engourage more roleplay lately we have lots a lot of good members for diffrent reasons which we dont need to get into, and we have so many new people joining and all they do is quest and mine and turn gold in to ingots and sell and get more so they can level up. you guys are doing a GREAT job dont get me worng, its just now that you have focused so hard on the quets and the training and evertyhing what about the people who hate questing or powerleveling and just want to roleplay? the gm's when they are on are on as invisable anyways so we dont see thier tags or them anyways I think Coneitic is saying maybe they can take over and impersionate some of the NPC's at random, I have been around harnquist a time or two when he starts to talk and respond to the players and that's great! Its alot of fun and it encourages others to role play as well.
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Ehm... well I about a year ago found out that there is a character named harnquist... now I never checked to see if harnquist was logged on or not when harnquist the npc talks, but... I have suspicions someone found a way to get inside that smithy of his...
Its kinda like that time years ago, back before you could see dwarf leather armor, that I was also tricked into believing a mushroom could talk... because well
Mushroom says: hi
So maybe gms havn't been controling harnquist...
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i dont mean my rp persay. by the way the list is half done hope u guys like it.....
ok so the banner is there, take the banner away. i dont want them to do anything specific. they are the gms they should be creative about it. im trying to be vague because the list specifically talks about this. but this isnt like a gm change this would be a dev change a small one. they could have more freewill to create a positive environment for rp. because belive me if a gm pulls a stunt thats rediculous or unacceptable thi forum would blow up with post within 10 mins of it.
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no trust me Harnquist had been taken over by a GM. I even sent the GM a tell thanking him for the great roleplay oppertunity.
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i trust you =P
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um..thanks..hehe..not sure if I can trust you howver... ;)
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The gods do not interact with the world directly.
I'm sure i've heard Laanx shouting from the temple at people dueling in the Plazza?
So the gods must be watching listening/watching what we do ;)
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Events with GMs must be approved so that 1) rewards given out can be judged fair by the higher ups, and 2) their actions are not out of line with the settings. Not every roleplay players embark on, no matter how wonderful they may judge it to be, is something the GMs would endorse.
That general direction made me not reconsider joining the GM team when our Event Master trial days were over.
In my humble opinion there should be much, much less emphasis on reward (only useful to drag people in who don't belong in said RP) and quest-type events (leave that to the NPC's) and a lot more emphasis on making the world a dynamic place.
This can be done with the following:
- impersonate passive NPC's on a regular basis when players are around.
- randomize spawn points more. (if it's allowed by the engine)
- keep combat challenging (but not impossible) by having hostile NPC's 'call for backup'.
- maintain longer, dynamic storylines that last more than just a few hours (preferably days or weeks) and have no particular ending. (or could be used to introduce a new area, NPC, etc.)
- Have the Dev team put more trust in some of their GM's so that not every little thing needs to be approved.
The last point is essential but I can understand that it might not be easy at the time being (with all the bugs and issues), however I do think it should be something to strive for in the future.
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I remember the good old days before the GM intervening with RP rule was implemented. It was great fun. Word of a tavern raid by some PCs got to Hydlaa via NPCs and the whole atmosphere was improved by the removal of Brado from behind the counter. We were driven out after a long fight but it was good fun. I also had this friend who was obviously pally with a GM and would host the most amazing long thought out events such as dead people being hidden in the barrels at Kada El's which was much enhanced by the use of the /narrate command describing an odd smell and the fact the GM could put a skull in the barrel made things a lot more authentic. Another one that comes to mind which maybe demonstrates the reason for thing needing to be passed by settings first is the time a hostage was held in the Laanx temple and a red fog came down inside it which was the cue for the criminals to run fearfully away.
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/me wipes a tear
*sniff* good times old buddy, good times in deed
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gm intervention now?? when i left it was like this.
oh look a yellow banner lets go talk to them. "COME FIGHT THE MONSTERS IN BD" fight fight fight fight come back
heres your reward everyone. thanks for rping..... never to see that person till the next event.
i remember before i left i tried to intervene myself with a gm event and stop them from completeling their task. as they were rich guards and i wanted the money and the armor they had. i got commended on my rp and giving some reward like 100 pp or something... even tho i dont train lol. and they went on with their plan. kinda turns the rp into an interactive pop up book that all pages stay the same nomatter whatyou do.
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"oh look a yellow banner lets go talk to them."
That's the type of player attitude I disagree with ... people see a GM now and all they think is "Big reward! Big reward! Lets go do what he says!". Exactly what you breed with the current reward system. Good RP is put on the bench as the reward goes out to whoever completes the quest, not whoever RP's best.
I'd say, stick to PP's for rewards .. and hand them out based on good RP skills, not on success or failure.
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keep combat challenging (but not impossible) by having hostile NPC's 'call for backup'.
I already posted here about this system months ago. Raleigh couldn't stop asking about it in every comment he made about NPC related topics.
When will it be introduced?
Sometime. Some more work needs to be done, whenever Magodra has time.
And I remember the time when GMs were allowed to do more. It was fun.
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Hehe, Elvi and me got stuck in the ground for doing bad stuff. :)
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people see a GM now and all they think is "Big reward! Big reward! Lets go do what he says!"
Right the experience I had to make. Players (not chars) approach and start to kneel before the yellow-tagged figures (not the chars..) - to me it felt pretty much ooc and for me wasnt enjoyable anymore.
That's the type of player attitude I disagree with ...
Fully acknowledged, as I tried to avoid the last events at all.
I have no clue about game-mechanics in that point, but is there really no way to have GMs have their commands in a char with a green-label ?
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Not at the moment, Velh. Different GM/dev levels activate different label colors.
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You say "at the moment" - reading the post up there, I would guess GMs in green-labeled ones would sort out many inconveniences. Sounds to me like devs are pondering to make it possible?
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"At the moment" meant that if there's much support and a good argument for the idea, it may be realized. It hasn't been discussed in the dev team previously that I'm aware of.
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Besides it would prevent almost all players currently online to run to an old lady (GM) who asks around for one noble knight to only buy her 2 pouches of water from Allelia, and that while nearly kill each other for being the one to help her, it also would make GM-events being interwoven in the whole atmosphere much better.
At the moment I feel those events are like pretty much off, as participation of people is unrealistic high, while on the other hand rp-component quite lacks. Reasons are given already, and I am sure, a change of the labels' color would do a trick there.
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Of course, regardless of how objective such a hypothetical participation of any GM would be, there'd immediately be several threads complaining that their RP wasn't aided by a GM. Not to mention that many RPs are outside the logical, or so assuming that they shouldn't be done by players in the first place.
Without knowing anything about that specific event, IMO, the stealing of scrolls from the temple of Laanx is, at best, a border case, unless the scrolls weren't really important and therefore not in any secure place. The assumption that a char would be able to invade the temple and steal something important simply is too big, because there's absolutely nothing that could clear the relation, and suggest just how difficult it might be, if at all possible.
If this event would be aided by a GM, then that would not only cement that player's claim on being such a great thief, it would also lead to others following the same strategy, and if they are not going to have success, the complaints and whining won't be bearable.
After all, that is the only reason why RPGs have a levelling system (with all the associated problems and flaws).
Therefore, any GM that would aid such an event would effectively give an instant elevation to the characters involved, creating an unfair advantage to them.
This is why I understand and accept that GMs should really only work on their own events (though these should, as has been stated already, be of exceptional RP-quality, as that quality is an important message on how seriously PS takes RP).
BTW, I noticed the RP that spawned this thread, and I must say that, were I a GM, I'd have not aided it (the only realistic option would have been to set a temp. ban (to simulate a "smiting" without deleting the char), resulting in a storm of whining). As we all know, sending an avatar wouldn't have been of any use, nor would have been sending Sharven, since the obvious reaction would have been players trying to fight them, something that would have been highly unrealistic, not to mention setting yet another bad example.
As player, I participated in it by commenting IC-ly and from a safe distance (possibly noone even heard it) that the people are stupid, and walking away after a while, because it seemed to be too assuming (in the sense of unrealistically fearless, simply because the players knew that nothing really serious would happen to them, which is just as OOC as anything else, not to mention the rather silly comments made by some involved players ("Look, I show you my divinity!" *casts life infusion, then claims* "Look, I made light, I am a god!"... how unrealistic (and stupid) is that?), Edit: or comments on how the crystal could permakill, while Laanx could not (despite the fact that there's historic evidence of the contrary /Edit ).).
I understand that this can happen in the "heat of things", but it does emphasize why player RPs are a highly sticky subject that's best not touched by GMs.
I also do agree about the OOC-ness and unrealistically high participation if "GM" labels are involved. However, what I consider if I see them is: "An RP that is official, therefore guaranteed to be within the settings and be well thought out, executed by good RPers, in contrary to many (most?) player-originated RPs which, in one way or another, usually revolve around the player's character". Sure, getting a reward is nice, especially if you, like me, dislike grinding, but it also feels OOC and isn't what would make me participate.
The threads about the latest GM events have not supported this interpretation, but I have not witnessed them so I don't know. In any case, this is how I feel it should be.
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your thinking way to big way way to big. im talking minute details
and create an avatar or temp ban? thats as creative as you can get lol no offense but im talking be creative and original about it. not follow lines everyone else would. and as far as everyone getting mad their rp didnt get help. i cant stress enough in my list about randomness. their rp didnt get help.. thats fine maybe the next one or the next one. of course people are goign to complain. whats an mmo without complaints.
oh and help should only be when its tied into PS and doesnt effect the world. a group is going after a scroll in the temple, let them rp it of course you wouldnt help.
a person is attacking the temple trying to vandalize and graffiti it.. boom they get sent to dr or boom theres a ulber there... you know something like that. your thinking way to big.
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I agree and disagree. yes its true gms helping people in events would elevate their characters and other people would complain it to be unfair. However isn't the fact that they are a gm something that is OOC and should not be mentioned by a role player? If staying IC we should regard a gm as just another character, no one special unless playing the role of someone special. This means that if a gm helps in an rp we shouldn't complain about it because it would ICly be treated as if they were just another person.
Without knowing anything about that specific event, IMO, the stealing of scrolls from the temple of Laanx is, at best, a border case, unless the scrolls weren't really important and therefore not in any secure place. The assumption that a char would be able to invade the temple and steal something important simply is too big, because there's absolutely nothing that could clear the relation, and suggest just how difficult it might be, if at all possible.
If this event would be aided by a GM, then that would not only cement that player's claim on being such a great thief, it would also lead to others following the same strategy, and if they are not going to have success, the complaints and whining won't be bearable.
After all, that is the only reason why RPGs have a levelling system (with all the associated problems and flaws).
Well that would be something very confusing... It would be rather annoying if people suddenly started rping to steal the book of names from the temple everyday yet its unrealistic to think that its immpossible. So lets say there were some important scrolls in the temple. Would it truely be so unrealsitic for there to be a master theif who stole them? Not at all. However its the response from the players who all suddenly want to be master thiefs that should worry you. Players need to learn that not everyone can suddenly do something just because on person did it. Its the same when something new is implemented. Suddenly everyone thinks just because its possible they can do it. When people start learning to limit themselves then I wouldn't see anything wrong with an rp in which someone steals from the Laanx temple, especially if they could do it within the game mechanics. Till people learn to limit themselves that would just turn into a messy rp.
BTW, I noticed the RP that spawned this thread, and I must say that, were I a GM, I'd have not aided it (the only realistic option would have been to set a temp. ban (to simulate a "smiting" without deleting the char), resulting in a storm of whining). As we all know, sending an avatar wouldn't have been of any use, nor would have been sending Sharven, since the obvious reaction would have been players trying to fight them, something that would have been highly unrealistic, not to mention setting yet another bad example.
Why is it so unrealstic for players to try and face gods? Yes we wouldn't stand a chance and so are rp must reflect that helplessness. If a god were just to speak to you (as what happened in the rp) then what stops the person who yells against the god from yelling to their face (even though we couldn't see it...)? If the god did smite us then as players we would know that being smited by Laanx isn't something you can just get up from without a care and rp accordingly. However we were not struck down or anything of the sort, we were teleported away and thats what caused us to come back. Sometimes someone who is arrogant enough wouldn't back down because of fear ;)
As player, I participated in it by commenting IC-ly and from a safe distance (possibly noone even heard it) that the people are stupid, and walking away after a while, because it seemed to be too assuming (in the sense of unrealistically fearless, simply because the players knew that nothing really serious would happen to them, which is just as OOC as anything else, not to mention the rather silly comments made by some involved players ("Look, I show you my divinity!" *casts life infusion, then claims* "Look, I made light, I am a god!"... how unrealistic (and stupid) is that?), Edit: or comments on how the crystal could permakill, while Laanx could not (despite the fact that there's historic evidence of the contrary /Edit ).).
I understand that this can happen in the "heat of things", but it does emphasize why player RPs are a highly sticky subject that's best not touched by GMs.
I said one of those comments above and I think it was completely IC. Just because the settings say that Laanx can kill you permantly must I believe it ICly? No. Its actually very OOC to believe that just because something is in the settings every player must believe it to be true. The fact is people will always have different beliefs. So what if I don't believe that Laanx can bring true death? ICly thats fine as long as OOCly I know that if he smites me I shouldn't be returning. Also being fearless in the face of a god is not something to be thought of as OOC. I fear no god because of what I believe. My character believes that magic is the only true power and that the gods are nothing without it. Is that true? No and OOCly I know this. However because of his beliefs does this mean I suddenly back down when a god appears? No because I would be doing it OOCly. ICly I wouldn't care. If I suddenly run from fear of death realm it contradicts my character.
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ICly a charactor who never sees a god or sees devine intervention... why wouldnt he do what we were doing? lol are we supposed to blindly follow in a world that was supposedly for us yet we have to work hard everyday just for money and weapons... just to turn them on eachother when these gods have power to make our lifes perfect? are you really serious about your claims seytra? we are doing what should have been done along time ago. and unless you guys can come up with more creative and original ways to keep the fear of gods around.. besides a occasion spamming smite. what are we.. IC'ly lead to think? the exact thing we are starting. i think you are having trouble differing ooc and ic =)
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your thinking way to big way way to big. im talking minute details
What minute details would make a difference? NPCs talking, or moving. Objects appearing is already a tricky one, as that'll include usable items that obviously cannot be given out to players, or it'd need items that don't exist.
and create an avatar or temp ban? thats as creative as you can get lol no offense but im talking be creative and original about it. not follow lines everyone else would.
Let's see, what would you expect? The statue moving, as has been proposed? What difference would that have made compared to Laanx saying something? None, it'd have met the exact same reaction.
The only suitable way to prove that you can do harm is is to do some harm. And in case of a god, there's only a limited number of things you can do, especially if you're Laanx. In a world where there's powerful magic as in Yliakum, a god will still need to do things that unarguably can't be done by people. Bring permadeath with a single word is one of these few things. Sending an avatar can already be questioned as some mind control spell.
The way I see it is that nothing short of such a drastic action could have been done. Laanx has killed for less, why should he discuss, or tiptoe around at all?
What was the situation:
There were highly vocal people right in front of a statue of Laanx, one that actually, all by itself radiates divine presence (rightclick).
Not only this, but right accross the plaza, there's the main temple of Laanx. Not just any temple, it's the temple. The temple that holds the holiest of holies, the book of names, the only material thing that Laanx ever gave to the people (except for life to the Lemurs).
Laanx is an inflexible, chaotic god, driven by revenge, if not hate. He has killed numerous people for not accepting him as god, and now he shouldn't smite some people who commit outright blasphemy right under his nose?
I'm not talking about an OOC ban. I'm talking about trying to balance "smiting" and people losing their char forever. As has been stated, making my point, merely killing, nor teleporting away had that effect, even though it quite obviously was intended as OOC-ly nondestructive IC smiting. Therefore, it's proven that this subtlety doesn't work.
I think that coming back from the DR was highly OOC in this respect, as you're supposed to be smitten, not just killed.
and as far as everyone getting mad their rp didnt get help. i cant stress enough in my list about randomness. their rp didnt get help.. thats fine maybe the next one or the next one. of course people are goign to complain. whats an mmo without complaints.
If this were done, then there'd be lots and lots of "RP"s wanting help, and even if only the few that actually deserved it got it, there'd still be a thread per hour. This could be handled by mods deleting them, but I am still not convinced that there is sufficient good RP going on to justify this additional trouble.
oh and help should only be when its tied into PS and doesnt effect the world.
And someone challenging Laanx isn't changing the world? It would not appear in history books, and the outcome would not alter the view of Laanx by the public? Seriously, that was the exact intention of at least the character. So by your own proposal, this RP shouldn't have gotten any help.
It seems that people are way too careless in what they consider "not changing the world".
However isn't the fact that they are a gm something that is OOC and should not be mentioned by a role player? If staying IC we should regard a gm as just another character, no one special unless playing the role of someone special. This means that if a gm helps in an rp we shouldn't complain about it because it would ICly be treated as if they were just another person.
Of course we should, but who is actually able to? Case in point is the number of people flocking to GM events simply because it's a GM event, as has already been stated. Therefore I'd like to state that only few players are fully able to ignore the label. Several will try, but succeed only to varying degrees.
Be that as it may, I was trying to say that it's elevating the player who created the event, not the GM. IOW, if a GM were to augment an RP by any player, that would be seen as an official endorsement of not only that specific event, but of everything that the character is supposed to be, does, has done and will do. IOW, if the character were to claim they'd be able to steal the book of names, then a GM going along with that would support that, saying "yes, this character can do that". Whether or not that was the intention, or if the GM even knew anything about that character (hardly possible given the vast number of chars), this is how it will be percieved (and subsequently advertised).
It would be rather annoying if people suddenly started rping to steal the book of names from the temple everyday yet its unrealistic to think that its immpossible. So lets say there were some important scrolls in the temple. Would it truely be so unrealsitic for there to be a master theif who stole them? Not at all. However its the response from the players who all suddenly want to be master thiefs that should worry you.
My thoughts exactly. It of course is not impossible. However, it is impossible for any player character. Why? Because either everyone would try to, and have the exact same right of doing that, or there'd be a "first come, first serve" policy set, creating a race of players to do the most outrageous things before anyone else does. This obviously isn't realistic, nor can be regarded as RP.
In this respect, what worries me is not that if such a thing were to happen that everyone would try to get away with the same thing. I know how sad humanity is. No, what worries me is that someone is actually trying to be the first even without such a precedent. Because that is just exactly the same: how do you justify that it is your character that, out of all, can do it? How do you earn the right to this? The answer is that you cannot. Not in an MMORPG. It is possible in tabletop RPGs, because there the number of characters is few and they are, by definition, heros. Not so in an MMORPG. Therefore, the only way to handle this is to refrain from doing anything like this until the game mechanics actually allow your character to do it. Many things will therefore never happen, but this is the only way to actually make it fair to everyone. Additionally, things like that would also alter the world, as they'd get recorded in history books and stay alive in the populations memory for decades.
Players need to learn that not everyone can suddenly do something just because on person did it. Its the same when something new is implemented. Suddenly everyone thinks just because its possible they can do it.
They're different. When something becomes implemented, then that does mean "everyone can do that now". However, with something that's not supportable by the implementation, but at the same time is highly unusual and in fact something memorable and therefore settings-altering, then this does mean that it must not be done in the first place.
When people start learning to limit themselves then I wouldn't see anything wrong with an rp in which someone steals from the Laanx temple, especially if they could do it within the game mechanics. Till people learn to limit themselves that would just turn into a messy rp.
History proves, over and over again, that people will do whatever they think they can get away with, that people will never learn anything, and that the only thing one can hope for is for them to fear consequences, or to reach a consensus among a small group. One person is able to learn, but humanity itself is incapable of learning.
This therefore only leaves the part which is about the game mechanics allowing for it, and this I agree to.
Why is it so unrealstic for players to try and face gods? Yes we wouldn't stand a chance and so are rp must reflect that helplessness. If a god were just to speak to you (as what happened in the rp) then what stops the person who yells against the god from yelling to their face (even though we couldn't see it...)? If the god did smite us then as players we would know that being smited by Laanx isn't something you can just get up from without a care and rp accordingly. However we were not struck down or anything of the sort, we were teleported away and thats what caused us to come back. Sometimes someone who is arrogant enough wouldn't back down because of fear ;)
The question really is: is it really believable that there's so many people that are sufficiently arrogant?
Next, if Laanx actually were to talk to them, would really all of them still be not only still arrogant, but also not the least bit intimidated?
Next, seeing that people were lowered into the floor already, and that people did get teleported, and "just killed", would one, realistically, still not tone it down at least several notches?
Now take into consideration that FAICT the killing and teleporting away was nothing else than a simulation of smiting, while trying to keep yet another complaint thread from popping up (and failing)?
Seriously, the way it seems to me is that the being killed should have been a char deletion. Only the way that an MMORPG works likely prevented it from being just that, and IMO the players acted OOC-ly in that they took it as what the game mechanics did, instead of what actually and realistically would have happened. IOW, the GM was kind enough to actually interact, yet tone it down to a level that would not make people lose their chars despite all (realistic IC) odds, and was subsequently more or less ignored by the players involved. Even ignoring all unlikelyness, this was when it IMO really went down the drain. And it sadly emphasizes the point that simple interference is not enough.
I said one of those comments above and I think it was completely IC. Just because the settings say that Laanx can kill you permantly must I believe it ICly? No. Its actually very OOC to believe that just because something is in the settings every player must believe it to be true. The fact is people will always have different beliefs. So what if I don't believe that Laanx can bring true death? ICly thats fine as long as OOCly I know that if he smites me I shouldn't be returning.
Not to offend you, but I really think that this is playing tricks with the setting. IMO yes, there are some things that a PC simply must believe, and Laanx being able to bring true death is one of them. The reasons are too obvious. Laanx did create life. Everyone knows that creating life from nothing is harder than destroying life. Proof: noone, not even the most powerful mage in Yliakum can actually create life, yet it is possible to destroy it by comparatively simple means (rare, special poison, sending into the crystal, even some magic may be able to). Granted, the interpretations of Levrus on familiars seem to suggest that it is indeed possible for mortals to create life; yet it's still not known how it was done, and if it wasn't simply a transmutation, which, even if still highly complex, certainly is easier than making life from scratch. Still, that life is nothing compared to Lemurs or Kran, with Jayose writing that it's "simple".
Be it as it may, Laanx is not stupid, and, even if he were indeed not capable of smiting in the literal sense, he could always teleport someone right in front of the crystal and -sizzle- smitten.
This then immediately lends credibility to the tales about Laanx actually smiting people, which is readily told by NPCs (and therefore is not forbidden knowledge), emphasizing that it is something to be accepted as fact IC-ly.
Also being fearless in the face of a god is not something to be thought of as OOC. I fear no god because of what I believe. My character believes that magic is the only true power and that the gods are nothing without it. Is that true? No and OOCly I know this. However because of his beliefs does this mean I suddenly back down when a god appears? No because I would be doing it OOCly. ICly I wouldn't care. If I suddenly run from fear of death realm it contradicts my character.
This disregards the fact that dieties in PS are dramatically different from dieties in RL. Contrary to RL dieties, PS dieties can be proven to interact with the world. Not by themselves (though, if we're accepting the system messages as IC, which I think they are not, they do so often and personally), but by means of avatars. If nothing else, Talad's (unimplemented but described) temple is proof of intervention.
Even an unknowing person does feel divine presence in the statue, so it must be tangible. Talad reportedly intervened to restore peace at least once. Both sent avatars. Talad made the glyphs for people to use. I'm sure there's a lot more to come on that subject.
Therefore, atheism in PS is also something entirely different from atheism IRL. In PS, one can simply not get around acknowledging that, indeed, the gods do exist. The only question is whether or not you do worship them. Regardless of worshipping or not, they still undeniably are highly powerful beings. And given that people have quite a lot of fear for far less powerful people, one should indeed assume that any PC that is not truly insane will fear the dieties in PS.
Yes, one may still ignore them. One may slander them and announce that publicly. However, if one does so in their face, one must know that this is, at least in case of Laanx, the end of things. You may still go ahead, but if then you are killed, then that should really be treated as final.
This is something that I personally consider something not to be messed around with by a player, since it would either require drastic, settings-changing intervention by a GM, or be shallow and unbelievable, a dull reflection of what should have occured.
Also, even if you now claim that it'd have been perfectly fine for the GM to delete your char (even though I am not convinced that this would have been what you'd have said if this would indeed have happened), it is quite obvious that the majority of players would run to the forums and create a lot of complaint threads about "GMs on a power trip", "Being punished for RPing" and such. People have made a hell of a lot of fuzz for something simple as a name change, what do you think will happen if people's chars would start getting deleted?
ICly a charactor who never sees a god or sees devine intervention...
He would see it, or at least see proof of it existing. Some of it is even implemented, though most is yet to come.
why wouldnt he do what we were doing? lol are we supposed to blindly follow in a world that was supposedly for us yet we have to work hard everyday just for money and weapons... just to turn them on eachother when these gods have power to make our lifes perfect?
Quite obviously this is not the case. For one, it's the people that create all evil, no diety. The fact is that if people were not inherently greedy, they'd not need to put their weapons against each other, but that's the same for RL. The gods may have the power to make people's lives a breeze, and they choose not to. Naturally, that can be questioned, and this is precisely why there are atheists in PS. However, if you look at RL, where there's absolutley no proof whatsoever that this or that god even so much as exists, yet there are still people (and lots of them!) that do believe in them, and them even being a lot kinder than at least Laanx.
Fact is that most people don't think for themselves and believe what they're told. That is the majority, and it isn't limited to religion. Fact also is that in PS there's proof that the dieties exist, so this lends a lot of additional credibility to these things. Lastly, people always believe that they can get a favour or advantage over everyone else of some sort off the gods, RL or PS, so this makes for another reason to follow the tales, especially if they're not tales. It really is the same reason why people willingly serve even the most ruthless of leaders: they think that they benefit from it.
Lastly, life in Yliakum is significantly more easy than life IRL, at least if going by the game mechanics (which we're accepting here given they were used to justify the complaints about no repercussions, and the subsequent ease with which people were able to exit death). You don't even have to eat or drink. In fact, it's almost impossible to not become filthy rich in almost no time in PS. Add to that that there's a tangible chance of actually getting a little favour by a diety and one can't necesarily complain.
Yes, there still is, as I said, reason to question the gods. However, there is absolutely no basis for assuming that they're powerless or stupid. Therefore, RPing an atheist is perfectly fine, it's even in the CC. However, RPing no consequences for challenging the gods more or less from their main temple is not.
are you really serious about your claims seytra?
Absolutely, yes. I am in fact adamant about them.
we are doing what should have been done along time ago. and unless you guys can come up with more creative and original ways to keep the fear of gods around.. besides a occasion spamming smite. what are we.. IC'ly lead to think? the exact thing we are starting. i think you are having trouble differing ooc and ic =)
Sorry, but I think you are the ones who are unable to differentiate IC from OOC. You ignore all reason and settings, and simply "RP" the game mechanics as-is, even though it is obvious that they are barely existant. You effectively go on a power trip simply because you, OOC-ly, know that nothing will happen to you, because if it would, then there'd be whining without any end. IOW, you are not RPing, and therefore should be ignored, not aided in any way. If you were really interested in realistic RP, you'd have deleted your character when it was appropriate. What you are doing is bashing the GMs for being nice. If I were a GM, I'd delete your char at this very instant instead of replying here, simply because it would be realistic.
Call me uncreative, but unless you are capable of coming up with something that does not end up in significantly hurting the offender(s) and still be worthy and reaslistic of a god like Laanx, I consider this the only adequate solution.
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so because i know nothing will happen OOC, which is completely false because i know the second a gm gets on something will infact happen, and my charactor knows nothing IC because he has never seen someone truely hurt by a god, he has never seen an act of god. there is no proof, seeing is beliveing right? the only thing i see from laanx is stricking down the stupid and they return just as fast.... untill coneitic sees something for his own eyes he has no reason to belive he is in jepordy... ooc or IC.
even in the game settings... where does he see proof? a statue? a church?
he does see proof however of murder of curruption.. of constant working only so he can watch the hard earned money and trainign be used to kill fellow citizens.
even the spamming consequence.. only way we know it was laanx was because of a game message thats all... no rp reason.
rp wise we are doing the right thing and untill theres something changed about that whats to stop us? if my charactor was banned i wouldnt really complain i would accept it.. i brought it on myself ooc wise of course because ooc God=Dev.
IC i wouldnt need an explination cuz i would be dead.
does this make sense?
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please have the gm team ban or delete all characters that disobeyed Laanx's words.
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wow neko do you even play the game?
also... do you only read a little bit then respond.
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no, i read ever word that has ever been posted here as it is my "job" as a moderator to do so. I agree with what Seytra stated and since you have also stated you see nothing wrong with Seytra's ideas, I too, decided that I would voice my opinion on the subject and also relate the fact that following proper RP, all those characters should be deleted and/ or banned from play as that action is what should have happened set by past history precedence which is recorded as such in the games settings. What was done was an action outside the games settings and the actions should be rectified.
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so we take ooc knowledgeand bring it IC?
i think we take IC knowledge and make it IC.
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no, everything in the settings history is, as far as i can tell in game, IC knowledge, and your characters should be aware of it.
that was explained in seytra's post btw. maybe it is not I that do not read things around here, but it is in fact you.
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my charactor was neverexplained anything.. and history??? how do we know the history wasnt made up??? its history it could be true or false. show my charactor the face of god and then we'll talk. untill then expect him to down the gods and make sure everyone hears it.
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you did not play your character from the day it was born. you started playing it some time in its young adulthood years. it's not like the character did nothing for the firt years of its life until you came along and created him and set him n game.
no, proper rp is to realize that your character has a background and you should adhere to it. part of this background is schooling, and unless you're grown up under a rock your whole life, you know that part of schooling is learning the history of the world you live in. you, as the player learn this from reading the website and it is expected of you as rping your character to realize that the character already knows this as true.
as to the invalid argument of who is to say that that history is false, i simply ask that if you believe that all the history that has been recorded in RL is false or not as well. If you don't believe we dropped a bomb on Hiroshima that is fine, but the rest of the world is going to call you an ignorant fool and you'll be treated as such. Facts are, that history did happen. it was written and fleshed out from the team in charge of creating the world, you should treat it as truth.
Again, I get back to my initial point, if your character still refuses to accept all this as fact, then you have already given consent to the consequences of said actions. In a world where the Gods actively kill those that tick them off past the breaking point, which you are trying to do, then I have no feelings for your character when they get perma-killed from the world as a lesson to the rest of the world's population.
edit: to me, I see your character as a small child does when it tries to test the limits and boundaries of what it can and can't get away with from the rules set down to him by his parents. I'm of the strong opinion your character stepped over the line. When a small child does that, they get sent to the corner for awhile. Do that in a land where you are defying a god that is known to be real, and the consequences are much worse.
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the bible is considered a history book.. does that mean its true? i for one belive its true but what makes me right? and i am testing the limits. coneitic may have been taught this in "school" but has never seen any consequences of actions from the gods.. so with that in mind i will keep testing limits and speaking blasphemy till he is taught other wise.. and he will still spread the word of what he belives till he is stopped.
and all this is ooc so it doesnt matter.. coneitic has no clue =)
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the bible is considered a history book.. does that mean its true?
Now you're getting really ridiculous. The bible is not a history book. At best, it is a collection of tales that represent in a highly distorted way the way people were living around that time. It is not a history book that'd deserve the name.
i for one belive its true but what makes me right? and i am testing the limits. coneitic may have been taught this in "school" but has never seen any consequences of actions from the gods.. so with that in mind i will keep testing limits and speaking blasphemy till he is taught other wise..
You are saying the same as "I have never seen the police put anyone in jail for a crime, so I'll commit crimes until I'm put in jail by the police!". Sorry, if you don't believe what people say, and people will have first-hand experience with divine intervention, even if they're just some, then I agree you're acting like a child. However, contrary to neko, I think that it is the player who is acting childish, and the character is just the OOC-ly abused medium for the silliness.
and all this is ooc so it doesnt matter.. coneitic has no clue =)
The discussion is OOC, but the content and the mesage should change the way you "RP" your "character". Or, in fact, make you start RPing, instead of, upon having maxed out the "char", thinking this might justify you going on a power trip.
Sorry to be blunt, but I must say that this is the saddest example of crappy non-RP that I've seen in a while, even though maybe that's just because I haven't been around much for said while.
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@coneitic: again, you reconfirm my point. you will continue do act as you wish until action is taken. fair enough, you have that right. but you also, by doing these actions, given up any valid points you could make when the settings appropriate actions are taken against your character and you turn to the forums to complain about what happened.
So again i say, please have the GM that was involved in whatever that little fiasco in game was correct their un-settings like actions and follow settings precedent by delete/banning all characters that decided to go against Laanx's wishes and still continued to do such even after actions were taken.
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your example makes no sense. you never see someone go to jail by the police... so normaly you would push your limits till you see it happen. you commit a crime then you a punish and see it.
well coneitic has never seen an act of god and whether its real or not will push the limits till i see an "arrest". if this means bannign then so be it.
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Instead of bannination or deletion just petrify them. I am sure such a punishment could be coded quite quickly. Let them log on all they want but be unable to move or interact in any way more than the petrified kran (unless he actually does more than is readily apparent).
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heres a nice topic i'd like to discuss and maybe give some insight to the devs thoughts and our own.
Why is the Gm ability so limited? if this game is geared towards quest AND rp then shouldnt the gms have more than the ablity to teleport kick and ban? if a good rp is going on that is acceptable and fun for all players and really gives a chance for new and old players to get involved and enjoy. not saying a planned event necessarily but say a sponaneous one, shouldnt the gm have some options to increase the rp?
in hindsight it would be helping to encourage and push people to rp inbetween quest without taking away from the grind part of the game right?
say someones at the fountain denounce gods.. lol.. persay... would a simple kick/slay/telport really encourage more role play? or maybe a figure posseses the body or say monsters spawn or say the statue moves. something more creative.. it would just encourage more rp right? i dont know hit me back with your responses i'll respond to those and we'll kick off another episode of crossfire.
ps. should i have saved this for the list?
When you are GMing, you are not a player.
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I like that thread. I really do :)
It's diverse and yet stays on topic more or less.
As I'm completely unimportant and uninvolved in this matter, I shall give my two tria ;)
I fear I have to make a longer statement, sorry for a longer read.
When you are GMing, you are not a player.
Right. That has a few consequences that I will lay out in the following.
Let's see. On one side we have the players. Players are supposed to play the game (and help with testing, but that's not important here) and have fun.
When GMing, you are not online to have fun, but to do your duty, which is:
#1 Moderate player issues.
#2 Promote RP.
#3 Help in testing and other development aspects.
The important part here is undoubtably #2. Now there are two particular cases defined for GMs to fulfill this purpose: a) throwing events and b) help players with their RP.
In the past we did both, a) and b). Nowadays we focus on a). Why? Because the accusation of favouritism (regretfully rightfully) was risen.
That doesn't mean that with a) no favouritism can happen, right. But in those cases it's much easier to detect and get rid of it. How can favouritism happen in player events?
The truth is that GMs *have* friends and people who they like more than others. In matters of rules and moderation this can be circumvented in general by having others handle problems that would obviously call for preoccupation. In matters of RP this is not so easy, as there is no obvious pressure to be uninvolved with the participants.
If you now ask for GMs to become involved with specific RP as player, who would they tend to help in the first place? Right, people who they know and consider good RPers.
Now it is very arguable if those people should get rewards for good RP like PP as we (obviously) don't have a good measure of what is good RP and what is not - just take the many, many discussions on this forum about just this matter.
Here I must say that we GMs mostly have the same idea of what is good RP and what is not, but how to communicate that to players who complain that they don't get help for theirs? In those cases the accusation of favouritism is the next argument - whether right or wrong - and hard to prove wrong.
A small sidenote: The settings as they are laid out on planeshift.it are "reality". You can't argue against the correctness of this information OOC (but of course IC). The *ingame books* are material to RP with and can be argued OOC and IC. Even more so you can debate statements from NPCs.
Second: Both gods (Laanx and Talad) are not supposed to be really present right now in the world, thus impersonating them for such a low cause as denying their existance and calling for prove would be just bad style (except Laanx is bored and likes to smite someone :) ). On the other side, plundering the temple is a serious matter, but can also be solved without impersonation of a god.
Thirdly: I personally would kick any GM from the team who bans a char for the sake of realism of RP alone. That would be clear abuse and is unacceptable.
Back on topic: Why don't we get involved with RP of players?
As already stated pretty clear by Seytra and others, RP that is supported by GM powers automatically is regarded as official and as measuring rod for others.
But there are different levels of involvement.
Bannage for RP sake clearly is one extreme. Handing out items and PP as reward for RP can be cause of accusations, as said above.
There are also other, "minimal-invasive" means to support RP. The simplest one is verbal "pats on the backs" for good RP or also verbal help in the current RP with advises.
Another is /impersonating NPCs and descriptive actions in the world. This basically means that the GM gets involved with the RP, but not visibly and also not giving rewards.
I see these two minimal-invasive means as upper limit of direct involvement of a GM within a player-driven event - and at the same time as most important aspects of promoting RP.
Everything beyond that needs quality assurance and backup from the settings, otherwise it's just unprofessional.
A last point about labels:
Yes, labels draw attention and make people drop their char personality for yellow label's sake. And yes, we don't like that. It is also true that sometimes the number of participants within an event that was supposed to be small is unrealistic from RP viewpoint.
We will look into the feasibility of having small events without GM labels (and with low rewards) but making it clear at the end of the event that it was official - opposed to "epic" events that also require a lot of participants, where the attention-drawing effect of the labels might be handy.
This also goes within the plan of having more diverse events, so all char-personalities can be involved one time or the other without dropping their usual role.
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Another is /impersonating NPCs and descriptive actions in the world. This basically means that the GM gets involved with the RP, but not visibly and also not giving rewards.
that's all I was asking for :) and some rain too, rain is great :D.
Also my other idea is if see somone talking lots of OOC just politely ask them to talk in char, maybe take them aside and explain role play to them, tell them how it enhance the game so much more, maybe even refer them to this site - http://www.planeshift.it/roleplay.html (http://www.planeshift.it/roleplay.html) if we as players take the iniciateve to train the noobs and even some of the older players that dont seem to RP then I think in just a short time we will see a great improvement in the amount and the quality of roleplay.
But then again maybe thats just me.
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what is you guys' hang up on rewards? stop giving rewards. is that so hard? people still want to rp thats fine they dont thats fine. it kind of sounds like bribes. i mean think of it this way. its like saying hey i logged in everyone come play with me or you wont get something special. as i stated before the events are a joke as far as rp. people only rp it because they want a prize? you think im wrong.. then make an alt thats not a gm, stand in the plaza and call for help on some mobs or claim you are someone. people dont recognize you and it will immediately become a joke itself and maybe one or two will stop to talk but then quickly leave. tho the event may encourage rp for a short time it is bought rp and therefore doesnt seem right... at least not to me.
as far as favoritism.. its spoken like its truely bad. if a gm sees that a player is extremely good with rp and always puts on a great show and keeps it in IC and does it numorous times.. and always helps encourage others to rp... then explain how helping that person would be so wrong. if people shout favoritism and claim "well you helped him or her with their rp, why cant you help me" then you respond simply with "you havent earned it"
take UTM for example. he has put on countless great rps.. great events great stories. constant encouragement to rp.. and overall i hero to me in the rp community.. so what would his reward be? some pp... a new sword... hell no, a reward would be simple help form gms or devs to create better rps. at this time what is the reward for great rping and constant rping and constant encouragement? nothing.. an event? as i stated those are jokes to rp and i stand by my reason why.
also i want to point out im not questioning what the GM's do. im questioning the system. maybe it wouldnt be so bad to discuss things to change.. you know how this system works.. have you tried other ways... and how many..
:beta: ???????
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I think the GM events are a great for both regular rp'ers and those that don't so often, why? Encouraging rp is pushing the game and the players in the right direction in my opionion.
Anything that promotes involvement is a good thing :)
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read the thread again =)
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Great role play is not always a good show, a great show is not always good role play. A great role play that is of little consequence in the grand scheme of things can go unnoticed for years but remain great role play nonetheless. Contrariwise a grand soap opera may well be entertaining but is it necessarily good role play?
This thread kind of brings to mind that Frasier episode where Niles and Frazier find the down on his luck actor who thrilled their teenage psyches so they produce him in a one man show to much regret. It also brings to mind the Friends episode when Joey gets to be in the movie with the great actor who constantly spits on him.
What I am trying to say is that role play is an art and as such is very much a subjective matter. What impresses you now might not in 10 years. For example, I recently bought the movie "Billy Jack" because I remembered it as a very good, powerful movie when it came out in the 70's. I was delighted to find it at the Walmart for 6 bucks. Having watched it again, I doubt that I will ever watch it again unless I want a good laugh as it now seem nothing more than complete cheese. So go figure.
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Another late response....
no, everything in the settings history is, as far as i can tell in game, IC knowledge, and your characters should be aware of it.
that was explained in seytra's post btw. maybe it is not I that do not read things around here, but it is in fact you.
Yes everything in the game is history. However ICly do I have to believe what was stated in history? Think of it from a RL point of view. Does everyone in the world know its history? And even those who do know the history, do they all believe it? Simply the answer is no. One can regard history as fact or fiction and its OOC to believe that everyone must regard PS's history as fact.
the bible is considered a history book.. does that mean its true?
Now you're getting really ridiculous. The bible is not a history book. At best, it is a collection of tales that represent in a highly distorted way the way people were living around that time. It is not a history book that'd deserve the name.
But wouldn't someone who believed in the bible consider it history? Of course they would just as much as someone who didn't would feel it fiction no matter how many people did. PS history is subjectable to the same thing. It is an IC choice whether to always believe what you are told. It doesn't matter that the gods have directly been involved with PS's history so much that people have seen them. A believer of the bible would also feel that god had been involved in their history and that people had seen him. Whether PS's history or not anyone can ICly say anything and believe anything they want. They just have to know that OOCly they are wrong and that ICly there may be consequences.
So again i say, please have the GM that was involved in whatever that little fiasco in game was correct their un-settings like actions and follow settings precedent by delete/banning all characters that decided to go against Laanx's wishes and still continued to do such even after actions were taken.
Instead of bannination or deletion just petrify them. I am sure such a punishment could be coded quite quickly. Let them log on all they want but be unable to move or interact in any way more than the petrified kran (unless he actually does more than is readily apparent).
I like bilbous's idea better. Its not for the fact that I don't want to lose my character (I don't but he does have to die eventually anyways..) but that its better to me. The fact is what if more people started to speak out agaisnt the gods. What if we ICly convinced people? Would Laanx really smight them all? Think of it this way, the kylcros never bent to Laanx. In history he killed many but eventually I believe she gave up on trying to impose her will on them. Why? Else there wouldn't be any kylcros in all of Hydlaa. If Laanx was determined to kill anyone who did not follow her then why wasn't there some kind of massacre of kylcros in the settings? ICly a character could believe that laanx gave up and oocly I was lead to believe the same. So does this mean Laanx would truely kill those who were against her? Maybe but I think it all depends on how Laanx felt at the time. Maybe I'm wrong but nothing in the settings tells me I'm not.
Players need to learn that not everyone can suddenly do something just because on person did it. Its the same when something new is implemented. Suddenly everyone thinks just because its possible they can do it.
They're different. When something becomes implemented, then that does mean "everyone can do that now". However, with something that's not supportable by the implementation, but at the same time is highly unusual and in fact something memorable and therefore settings-altering, then this does mean that it must not be done in the first place.
When something becomes implemented that OOCly means everyone is capable of it. However ICly everyone shouldn't suddenly be able to become expert crafters. Thats not how the world works. Not in RL and it certainly shouldn't be that way in a game trying to be different then other MMORPGs by actually including RP. Sure people will start to learn something thats implemented but everyone shouldn't suddenly get to. Same with winch. Suddenly everyone is able to get into a area mainly for merchants? Everyone doing something that was done in rp and everyone suddenly doing something that was newly implemented is bad in both cases and OOC.
Why is it so unrealstic for players to try and face gods? Yes we wouldn't stand a chance and so are rp must reflect that helplessness. If a god were just to speak to you (as what happened in the rp) then what stops the person who yells against the god from yelling to their face (even though we couldn't see it...)? If the god did smite us then as players we would know that being smited by Laanx isn't something you can just get up from without a care and rp accordingly. However we were not struck down or anything of the sort, we were teleported away and thats what caused us to come back. Sometimes someone who is arrogant enough wouldn't back down because of fear ;)
The question really is: is it really believable that there's so many people that are sufficiently arrogant?
Next, if Laanx actually were to talk to them, would really all of them still be not only still arrogant, but also not the least bit intimidated?
Next, seeing that people were lowered into the floor already, and that people did get teleported, and "just killed", would one, realistically, still not tone it down at least several notches?
Not at all. If you look at RL a very good example can be brought up. That of the native Americans and the first Europeans to come there. Some of the natives felt the Europeans as gods however when they became threatened did it matter what they faced? No. Surely they still had fear but courage is the means to stand up to something regardless of fear. Thats what they did and thats what we too did. We stood up agaisnt Laanx with courage in that rp, no without fear. Whether we would show fear on our faces is clearly up to us. Also its possible to just not fear at all. Some call that insanity but how well do you know the characters there to really have ICly said they were not scared or that they were insane? That is for you to answer.
In the end the fact is if you don't want this kind of rp to happen then stop it OOCly. However stopping it ICly won't work. It will only promote it in the end :P . Also I'd just like to point out that after hearing a lot about how much people don't like "good vs evil" rps (saying its done too much) that this rp was an honest shot at something that differed from the usual. What happens (as I predicted)? From what I can tell it seems that your eager to get rid of it despite the fact that it did encourage rp (I may be wrong...hard to read emotion through words). Nothing in the settings is agaisnt something like this but I doubt most would be happy if they saw it again. So I'd like to clearly state that if anyone is to ever talk about good vs evil battles being boring then I shall kindly point them here for an example of what happens when you go outside that barrier without game mechanics. The fact is good vs evil is all the game mechanics support for rp conflict (and it doesn't do a good job on the evil side). Sure people like nice quiet rps but not everyone and personally I get bored to easily. I will continue to try different kinds of conflicts (including this one) and see just how warmly they are recived regardless of how well I try to get them into the settings. I doubt however that many of them will be accepted at all.
And because I know my words may sound mean depending on the reader I can assure you that is not directed towards anyone, just a statement that I think people should really take the time to think over to get my meaning :P
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I'm impressed with Kerol's post. This level of open communication is very refreshing and I enjoy seeing it.
Great role play is not always a good show, a great show is not always good role play.
Also very true.
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You know this role play might have gone over better if it had been approached a little more subtly. It seems to me that there was no build up to it. It seems to to have gone from 0-60 in about 2.5 seconds. There doesn't seem to have been any lead-up, no muttering, no quiet gathering of like-minded people, just all of a sudden a bunch of guys railing at the gods in the plaza. I could be wrong as I am only going by the second hand info available on the forum. I have been kind of Oblivious lately.
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You know this role play might have gone over better if it had been approached a little more subtly. It seems to me that there was no build up to it. It seems to to have gone from 0-60 in about 2.5 seconds. There doesn't seem to have been any lead-up, no muttering, no quiet gathering of like-minded people, just all of a sudden a bunch of guys railing at the gods in the plaza. I could be wrong as I am only going by the second hand info available on the forum. I have been kind of Oblivious lately.
Well thats kinda hard to explain. Its the fact that part of this rp is newer and combined with an older rp of mine that was pretty much kept hidden.
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your walking down hydlaa and all of a sudden you hear people telling you to revolt against the gods. that was the start. maybe more like 0-20. all we did was talk smack. and everything duraza said in the second to last post is correct and i commend you on explaining it well. just think duraza, if you started this thread it would have been much different responses. i mean how many times have you heard people curse the gods? many. all of a sudden it became a great deal to prove how wrong it was to do.
bibulous. of course there was a gathering of like minded.. me, duraza, gwinn, and eid. we talked about it... and whats funny is we sat right in the tavern and talked allowed... then we went to the fountain in hydlaa and talked amongst eachother about it out loud. regular /say so everyone could hear it. thats how the crowd started to form. we completely started it IC and i think only one or two tells were involved. if someone was near us or passed by they would have caught everything we were saying.... which is how it god big in the first place. i mean... the shouts helped, but we had already had people talking to us. maybe not forum build up.. but hell, ive always thought the best rp events were the ones started right in game, not in forums, i always used forums to recreate what happend in game.. so people who werent around could catch up.
either way the fact is we did nothing ooc and nothing wrong. we were just in what we did and should not have taken all this attacks. but i guess i brought it on the group by my own opinions ooc. but now its in duraza's hands im out. feel free to enjoy and not hate on this. he is a great rp'er. one of the evil greats.... take notes people.