PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Natrina on August 28, 2007, 06:09:43 pm
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So. The other day I was walking through the bugtracker and came upon a bug fix which stopped showing the button to marry someone when people were of the same-sex.
First off, that button has been there for quite a while now. If it was going to cause someone a homophobe attack, we would've heard of it by now. Also, homosexual relationships have been in-game since Molecular Blue and even today there's a couple or two out there that I've seen, and I'm working most of the time I'm in-game (meaning, I don't usually have time to grasp people's relationships).
But that's not my point here. My point is that the rule lacks coherence. It would be all right to put us in a world in which same-sex is banned - okay, it's medieval and all, I get it. But when kran, neutral-sex beings, come into play, things get a bit off. If the idea is to stop same-sex based on the idea that from their union nothing results, and as such in medieval societies (big number of deaths) they're bad cause they will influence negatively the growth of the population by not reproducing, why can krans marry other races? Obviously you can do what you want with a kran the result will be the same as with someone of the same sex - no children. Also, wouldn't a kran marrying a kran be a same-sex relation? And why would krans marry in the first place if they can generate children on their own? Copying other races? Might be.
Maybe the idea was not to shock. And I can also understand this, as the game is supposed to be for all ages and many parents would probably be shocked to see their kids befriending, or being part of, same-sex couples in a game. But then, we should be talking about censoring the perception of homosexuality in marriages. You're telling me that if someone comes into my room and I'm talking with a kran and it's husband, who's a ynnwn, that person won't think that's homosexuality right there? Because even if krans are neutral of sex, they have male shapes and want it or not whatever male character you put by the side of a kran, as they are currently, it'll look gay. Probably not to our character, but it will to the players and I suppose that's the problem here.
So, come on, give me a logic.
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So. The other day I was walking through the bugtracker and came upon a bug fix which stopped showing the button to marry someone when people were of the same-sex.
First off, that button has been there for quite a while now. If it was going to cause someone a homophobe attack, we would've heard of it by now. Also, homosexual relationships have been in-game since Molecular Blue and even today there's a couple or two out there that I've seen, and I'm working most of the time I'm in-game (meaning, I don't usually have time to grasp people's relationships).
But that's not my point here. My point is that the rule lacks coherence. It would be all right to put us in a world in which same-sex is banned - okay, it's medieval and all, I get it. But when kran, neutral-sex beings, come into play, things get a bit off. If the idea is to stop same-sex based on the idea that from their union nothing results, and as such in medieval societies (big number of deaths) they're bad cause they will influence negatively the growth of the population by not reproducing, why can krans marry other races? Obviously you can do what you want with a kran the result will be the same as with someone of the same sex - no children. Also, wouldn't a kran marrying a kran be a same-sex relation? And why would krans marry in the first place if they can generate children on their own? Copying other races? Might be.
Maybe the idea was not to shock. And I can also understand this, as the game is supposed to be for all ages and many parents would probably be shocked to see their kids befriending, or being part of, same-sex couples in a game. But then, we should be talking about censoring the perception of homosexuality in marriages. You're telling me that if someone comes into my room and I'm talking with a kran and it's husband, who's a ynnwn, that person won't think that's homosexuality right there? Because even if krans are neutral of sex, they have male shapes and want it or not whatever male character you put by the side of a kran, as they are currently, it'll look gay. Probably not to our character, but it will to the players and I suppose that's the problem here.
So, come on, give me a logic.
I'm sure all beings feel love, even Krans. You can't say them marrying themselves or others is illogical because they can't have children. If you love someone, and they feel the same way, you get married.
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Wait, wait. Why do Kran marry people?
Suno, um, I don't think I even want to bother arguing on this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%28scientific_views%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_%28scientific_views%29)
Anyway, can someone educated please tell me whether ancient greece had homosexual marriages?
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Not only in ancient greece, but in many cultures, from ancient to modern times there are many instances of culturally endorsed same sex marriages, American indians, various tribal cultures in the pacific, china, japan, mesopotamia, medieval europe, ( yes documented evidence of christian same sex marriages has been found, in fact two eastern european saints are recorded as being married and this union was endorsed by a church marriage rite in 10th century Kiev).
In fact records of these types of marraige can be found in christian records from the 8th to the 18th centuries.
As to the question of Kran marriages, since kran are in fact biologically 'sexless' then they can be said to be asexual marriages, I feel however that regardless there should be no reason to prevent kran marrying, since marriage throughout history has been a contract between two adults, the promises of fidelity, sharing of resources, and long term commitment being pretty much the basis of the majority of these ceremonies since the beginning of recorded history.
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As to the question of Kran marriages, since kran are in fact biologically 'sexless' then they can be said to be asexual marriages, I feel however that regardless there should be no reason to prevent kran marrying, since marriage throughout history has been a contract between two adults, the promises of fidelity, sharing of resources, and long term commitment being pretty much the basis of the majority of these ceremonies since the beginning of recorded history.
Okay, this part gives me a shade of doubt for the previous one. I know there were agreements of this sort and I know some people use them as support for past homosexual marriages. But I also digged up that these agreements had nothing to do with marriages and were simply contracts held between, for example, two brothers.
But I could be wrong.
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I think when DivineLight presented the first draft of a marriage system there was this discussion (I think even on ML) and the decision was no gay marriages (except among Krans, considering their peculiarity).
Not sure there is so much more to say about that, also because it has already created polemic (plenty of threads if I remember right and people bothering on IRC) in both directions.
That's all I got on this subject.
(don't bother trying to go to that thread I quoted from. That's from a "secret" board.) ;)
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In some cases this was in fact what happened, and some cases have been perhaps misrepresented to support the pro-homosexual marraige case, however there are still credible documented cases of same-sex marriages in chuch records, also documented cases of same-sex marriage practices in historical records of greater antiquity, such as the chinese, mesapotamian, japanese and cretan/greek cultures.
These are supported by a large number of scholars of history, however there are also some who argue that certain cultures while practising certain homosexual 'rite of passage' ceremonies may not have fully supported full same-sex marriages, however the evidence for both cases may often be ambiguous at best, or subject to interpretation depending on the point being made. What is certain in the case of ancient greece in particular is that philosophically the ancient greek culture certainly discussed homosexuality in a frank and open manner, in fact there is a section of Plato's dialogues on the subject, which appears to support the argument for homosexual marriages in greek culture at that time.
However I fear we may be sliding off-topic, in regard to the change of the marry option being changed i agree that it may in fact seem to lack a certain coherence, however although the game is played in a medieval fantasy setting, the truth is it's played by people who are of our present culture, with all the conceptions we have of our sexuality and morality, RP nonwithstanding, it's hard to distance ourselves from our upbringing to such an extent that evocative topics such as race, religeon and sexuality cease to influence our characters in-game.
It's also a difficult balance between RP and the real world, where our actions in-game will affect others perceptions of the world they play in. Sometimes we forget that our world in the game is 'perfect' in that we help decide how it is developed, the ideas and ideals we bring into the world will influence the direction of that development to an extent, and in certain subjects it's perhaps best to err on the side of caution.
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my only complaint on the new marriage button is where now everyone can see it adn knows its there and I get all these random purposals all the time..I mean its strange...stop and say hello at least frist.. I am serisous I have gotten 3 in the last few days from people I never talked to or knew....thats kinda annoying.
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Aha, many thanks. I would just prefer if things like that were growing out of the setting, not real life perception of "social correctness".
Though liberal approach to homosexuality in ancient Greece isn't much of a proof by itself, as ancient Greece was one of those cultures that made a clear distinction between love and sex.
Anyway, I think distancing yourself from real life worldviews is what roleplaying is about? I realise there are other priorities in Planeshift roleplaying (that's why I "never have time" to play PS anymoe), but...
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Okay, I guess I have no actual point there.
However! There's another factor, which conveniently enough I cannot disclose here (I think) >:|
And nor can I present it before Xillix under high possibility of either being yelled or laughed out.
Because apparently I always worry about stupid stuff.
Okay, I guess I don't really have an argument against it. So umm... Yeah, sure, hooray for homosexual marriages \o/
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Wait, wait. Why do Kran marry people?
Most noteably for the health benefits and if they're in the military, so they can live off base...
On a more serious note, how about bringing about the idea of marrying more than one person, as in harems or polygamy?
What's that race that will mate with everything on two legs, I would think they the ideal practitioners.
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I think when DivineLight presented the first draft of a marriage system there was this discussion (I think even on ML) and the decision was no gay marriages (except among Krans, considering their peculiarity).
Not sure there is so much more to say about that, also because it has already created polemic (plenty of threads if I remember right and people bothering on IRC) in both directions.
This is exactly what I'm calling logic-less. The "peculiarity" of krans actually pulls them towards no marriages at all, instead of full freedom. And you're telling me I won't see a menki with a menki, but it'll be possible to see a kran married to a male dwarf. I can see you people discussed it, and it is a matter of much discussion, but what I am asking for here is actually a setting-wise justification for such. Of course that little is disclosed about the setting, so just saying that there is a justification and that we're eventually get to see it, it'll be fine by me. Marriages are implemented currently, though, so it should be fine to release it if it exists, no?
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And you're telling me I won't see a menki with a menki, but it'll be possible to see a kran married to a male dwarf.
I believe that Kran may only marry Kran. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't tested it.
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Krans appear with the marry button to all females. Anyhow, Krans cannot have sex as such, so what's the point of marriage?
Anyhow, I'm against the sexist approach to marriage. Personally I think that the best solution is to supress marriage in game mechanics completely, making it a decission of players and a matter of roleplaying.
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I like the marraige opption don't take it out, it makes the game more realisitic and such, I mean in rl when you get married then you file papers...
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I would like it if there were same-sex marriages. I am not homosexual myself, but I would like to be able to choose for my character.
I suppose, however, it is more realistic to not allow gay marriages, as most societies sadly do not allow them. :(
BTW what is all the talk about sex? I don't think you can have sex in game, can you? I've never tried. ;D
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If you really want a gay marriage you could always create a female character and play it as a drag queen, none of the races have naughty parts anyways. I am certain there are any number of transexual characters (characters with a different gender than their player) already so what is the big deal?
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I like the marraige opption don't take it out, it makes the game more realisitic and such, I mean in rl when you get married then you file papers...
But do it at the office or temple, not in the middle of the plaza. Anyhow it's mostly an RP thingy and the not allowance of same-sex marriages is due to cause some disputes than good. After all it's a hot socio-political issue nowadays.
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it should be called a union not a marriage
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I believe that Kran may only marry Kran. Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't tested it.
I did do some testing before posting this :P. Things may have changed since two days ago, but if not, the reality in-game is a neko kyouran said it to be.
BTW what is all the talk about sex? I don't think you can have sex in game, can you? I've never tried.
Sex shapes a lot in a society and races and that's why we're bringing it into here. About your second question: Hmm.
it should be called a union not a marriage
What are you referring to? Same-sex? It's unlikely it's going to happen in the first place, not to mention that you sound like Obama and I'll try to see that with the same good will he has. PS protects a lot non-discrimination, but it's not like it's going to take stances on social polemics, nope.
[Edit: Obama, Obama... I'm so bad at memorizing names.]
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my only complaint on the new marriage button is where now everyone can see it adn knows its there and I get all these random purposals all the time..I mean its strange...stop and say hello at least frist.. I am serisous I have gotten 3 in the last few days from people I never talked to or knew....thats kinda annoying.
Maybe people just like the look of you :P
Love at first sight????? lol
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It was more annoying (and funny) when the button was mapped, but there was no icon... and you could propose marriage by some obscure mouse-movement and click combo. I remember more than one new player being horrified that they had proposed to someone else and had no idea how they did it. Hah! Also, union is already a synonym for marriage in English. I really do not want to ask my girlfriend in game if she wants to get "unionized"...
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no, just marriage seems to ooc and more of this world.
i union would mean how it sounds. two people uniting.
and the fact that it was made that you couldnt marry the same sex is very discriminating and shows alot about the dev who made that rule.
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Can you get divorced?
And what about the polygamy thing?
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u can divorce
but no polygamy another discrimination.
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no, just marriage seems to ooc and more of this world.
i union would mean how it sounds. two people uniting.
and the fact that it was made that you couldnt marry the same sex is very discriminating and shows alot about the dev who made that rule.
Homosexuality was a sin in medieval times... and no doubt it is a sin in the laanx and talad clergy's..... Aethiests have no power in yliakum, so I don't see how same sex marriage /could/ happen... ICly characters would be too afraid of the retribution and retaliation of such a crime.
Prejudice is part of medieval times, there is no democracy, or /rights/ of freedom of sex.
And no doubt polygemy is another sin, one could attribute both laanx teachings and talad teachings very closely to christianity. Such acts like these would result in horrid consequences, only a fool would persue them. Agaian, Yliakum is not a free age, its not the modern age, its much more primitive... Respect that.
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There are many valid points for both allowing and disallowing same sex marriage.
On one hand, PlaneShift should be an escape and so, allowing same-sex marriage would help a lot of people do that.
On the other hand, PlaneShift has to have it's own world that fits closely with cultures in similar time periods, disallowing same-sex marriage is the best way to do that.
Now, whether Laanx and Talad even care about it in another point. We can't compare them with the gods of our world.
But, one must note that Yliakum isn't the most peaceful of places, children are trained to fight from a very young age. I imagine many people would die every year and in order to keep the population growing same-sex marriages would be disallowed.
This can go either way and is completely up to Talad and Xillix to decide.
Worst come to worst, one male partner can play a female or they can both play Kran.
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Similar to what I was saying before, but probably not too helpful, is that I believe same sex marriages are extremely common presently. All it takes is for two players of the same gender to get married, one with a male character and another with a female. I am sure that in some cases one of the parties is not even aware they are in a same sex marriage. Like wise I am positive there are any number of players with more than one married character which to me would be a form of polygamy.
None of this explains why Laanx or Talad should offer such services in their religions anyway as they certainly never married. Laanx was Voduls lover not wife unless I am mistaken so marriage would seem to be outside the settings anyway. That is not to say that permanent or long-term pairings are uncommon or should be but since the Gods care not for such formal commitments why would they provide them for their followers. And another thing seeing as how there are real Gods in the game that are getting dragged into such ceremonies shouldn't there be some kind of undesirable effect for getting a divorce and wasting the Gods attention in the first place if you can even get one at all? Are you a widow(er) if your partner goes to the DR, what if you remarry before he gets back?
I realize marriages are popular among some of the players but they never seemed to make much sense to me and particularly not it PS. I would add this to the inconsistency thread even.
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Similar to what I was saying before, but probably not too helpful, is that I believe same sex marriages are extremely common presently. All it takes is for two players of the same gender to get married, one with a male character and another with a female. I am sure that in some cases one of the parties is not even aware they are in a same sex marriage. Like wise I am positive there are any number of players with more than one married character which to me would be a form of polygamy.
Thats an extreamly ooc view, the actual player's don't get married when their character's do. And having an alt thats married is not a form of polygemy, Polygemy would having one character with several other partners.
Frankly I don't see the big deal, i've seen homosexual couples in PS of both male and male, and female and female, they don't get officaly married, Yet I have yet to see any one of those character's even hold a ceremoney.
Waylander, I compare laanx and talad to religons today because frankly the religous morales are very very very very very Vauge in planeshift, as to whats right and whats wrong, not even I can see the line.
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Fair enough Earl, but real life marriages have been known to breakup because one spouse had reason to be jealous of the other's virtual spouse. Some people get sucked into these things unintentionally.
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That will be fixed in time, I'm sure. But, it doesn't make the comparison correct.
That is all I'm saying.
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earl your going on ooc reasons why same sex is wrong. you have no idea what laanx and talad would want. so to try to assume will.... make an ass out of u and me =)
hell laanx loved that other V god, cant think of his name right now (been drinking) and now laanx is a dude... you think she/he still has feelings for the god? i think so.
wait.... and i dont know about you but thru the settings page it seems like laanx has a thing for talad.
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earl your going on ooc reasons why same sex is wrong. you have no idea what laanx and talad would want. so to try to assume will.... make an ass out of u and me =)
hell laanx loved that other V god, cant think of his name right now (been drinking) and now laanx is a dude... you think she/he still has feelings for the god? i think so.
wait.... and i dont know about you but thru the settings page it seems like laanx has a thing for talad.
Again, I apply ooc reasons, because theres not enough input ICly.... And Im not saying homosexual marriage is wrong, im saying and agreeing with the devs and mods, that it doesn't suit the era... Mind you, the deal with laanx and Vodul was completely different, no where does it state laanx had feelings for vodul, or the other way around, vodul just wanted a piece of laanx, nothing more such as feelings etc etc... Also keep in mind, laanx became a male after laanx went through a serious stage of loss and deppression.
laanx and talad were co-rulers, i'd expect that thing they had for each other to be respect, not love. Gods in all cultures are always very self centered, and by looking at the settings, yeah, these gods are too... talad and laanx, more or less are siblings, and rivals.
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I would allow same-sex-marriage ingame... it would have to be done at some kind of church or temple and i would also allow krans to have any marriage they want to, cause sex isnt limited to penetration, so it means even krans can have sex (oral, or anything you want to imagine...)
i wouldnt call a player having characters in different marriages, being in polygamy, cause each of the characters is in monogamy...
here all that counts is the ingame-character/in-character...
same-sex-marriage might be hated by some factions, but their characters might handle that their own way...
maybe a priest of talad would hunt those, but others would protect them...
you'll never know...
at least it shouldnt be deactivated, cause that would limit the Roleplay.
a marriage doesnt need to be something done in public...
for a marriage you only need a priest and a partner...
its the first time i'm worried if a female char is played by a female player :o
i only play female chars in singleplayer RPG-games...
and different from my own taste, my chars like fluffy things or pink stuff, or just anything i wouldnt like...
you need to keep that in mind when playing, that its not really you...
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you need to keep that in mind when playing, that its not really you...
So they DON'T really love me?!
NOOOOOOOOOOOO :'(
If players can integrate homosexuality as far as the facts of the game go, go for it. It doesn't matter if the people accept it, only if the Gods do. In fact, it might things more interesting (though potentially dangerous) if some Gods did and others didn't.
Heck, we've already got racists, sexists, and the like, if we can fit homophobics in there, man, that could make for some crazy days.
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why shouldnt PS be as complicated as the reality is :thumbup:
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Here's the way I see it:
1. Society loosely based on medieval world would mean no sanctioned gay weddings.
2. This doesn't mean there aren't necessarily homosexual characters. (What is someone going to do, go around proclaiming there are "no homosexuals in Iran?" ...uh, I mean Yliakum. ;) )
Like it or not the realm run by the Octarchy, while certainly more "open" than what I'd suspect most governments were back in medieval times is not some "progressive" modern society. Leaving personal politics, RL religion, and people's personal opinions out of the discussion, it seems to me that those are just the facts.
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I just love people forcing their own opinions on others. And to take it to such extremely as a supposedly RP game....hilarious. I am sitting here laughing my back side off over this. My opinion.....Its not me that climbs into bed with them so why should it matter to me. As to comparing made up gods to a RL deity....Hilarious again.
Its a game....supposedly. Its also supposedly for entertainment and fun. So if two same sex MAKE BELIEVE characters wish to seek each other let them. Its not My place nor Yours to condemn them, unless You are proclaiming to be the true judge in game or otherwise. :oops:
Personally, I find characters with names that carry drug connotations much more offensive. :@#\
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Thats fine, dude... But this is a medieval time period. I don't understand how people don't get it that its none of our ideas, its the fact that this is a medieval setting. Yliakum is held tightly by the religions, and I doubt any of them support homosexuality. There is not as much liberty as one may think, this isn't our ooc feelings, this is the Octarch law.
Our characters live under a powerful system, and they control what is the law, and what isn't. Apparently homosexual marriage is not legal.
If you want a gay character thats fine, i've seen them, and I have actually played them, but marriage is one thing they can't do. Heaven forbid you can't have the little thing in your description saying you're married to such and such.
Nuff said, get over it.
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And I love the fact that none of Us have undiluted access to records of the time. Yet, there are precedents showing "same sex" marriages in Earths history. Now some would like to sit back and say " Oh no...Thats fake. It never happened" and some would say " See. There is Our right as established in history" What I am saying is that if a person cannot realize that an RP same sex couple is truly no threat to their customs or beliefs...it would probably be best not to play a game where your character is encouraged and required to kil by sword axe and magic.
Now if We wish to claim relious reasons for not allowing same sex marriages, we must also ban magic for the same reasons.
If We wish to claim historical reasons, fine there as well. Someone point out a case in hisrtory where a fighter, mage or otherwise has called forth an armor of rock to protect them during battle. Our RL Religious beliefs should have no bearing on whats in game. Period. Our history, possibly a small amount of matching would occur, but not necessarily in any one area such as religion which would by virue be different in Yliakum...or so I have been told.
The settings of the game, have introduced a certain element....a God that undergos a gender change. For whatever reason. There is not a whole lot of support for this happening in the religions of this world, yet in todays world, it happens quite frequently.
So please, someone who knows just what is really going on in the world of Yliakum make this issue clear.
Also Ostarchal law is not made by the people as I can see. I have seen no voting areas, nor anyone even asking what the peasant think should be anywhere in game. Have You? And lastly, I would appreciate a guiding post as to what book and where I may find this supposed law In Game, since some know vastly more than any and everyone else in a game that is very thin on background or anything to make such judgements upon. Please, PM Me if You wish to debate this further and feel free to cuss me as much as You wish there.
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I think you're missing the point
Homosexuality in Yliakum is not a big deal to the Octarch, however, they do not promote it, thus they wont legally sign documents that unite a male and a male, or a female, and a female, in any sort of marriage arrangement.
Despite this, its tolerated. Which in most primitive RL communities, was not the case, and punishment was harsh.
Yes I know there are 'a few cases' Too be honest there are 'a few cases' to everything; so thats not saying much.
I don't understand why people get bent out of shape because their gay character can't get married, this isn't 2007 Earth, this is a primitive society which is governed by strict law, and where religion molds people's ideas. The simple idea of many modern day thinking realisticly would never cross our character's minds.
So, the point, Again: Ochtarch.... Promote.... they do not...
And... Sign-age... of legal documents.... they will not...
Gay marriage would be ooc.
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That argument again draws reference to a world such as Earths development. The world of Yliakum is not the original world of these peoples. And as such, there is plenty of room to acknowledge that "same sex" or "gay" marriages could have been socially and even religiously acceptably on a species homeworld. However, there are exceptions and they are the two species created by Laanx and Talad.Even then though, we know that through the merging of cultures, new ideas are welcomed and accepted whereas even some old and highly honored beliefs are slowly worn down to myth and legend. For the argument of cultural development on earth to be viable as a comparison, species must have been translocated to this planet by a god or gods bringing with them their own beliefs and cultures. As every school child has been taught....no such occurrence has happened.
We must be able to sit back and bring these things to the fore when evaluating just what we "think" should be happening and "the law" in Yliakum. So before someone says "Gay marriages should be banned", maybe they should think about all the other cultures before they were brought to Yliakum and what they MAY have been like.
So far though, I have not seen a sign of this thought process being shown. Instead, just age old religious beliefs being pressed into service in a supposed game. Is this a game or an online re-enactment attempt?
If its a game, the the point is valid. If its a re-enactment....then haul out the swords and ropes to encourage conversions....those magic users are evil and must die!
;D
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That argument again draws reference to a world such as Earths development. The world of Yliakum is not the original world of these peoples. And as such, there is plenty of room to acknowledge that "same sex" or "gay" marriages could have been socially and even religiously acceptably on a species homeworld. However, there are exceptions and they are the two species created by Laanx and Talad.Even then though, we know that through the merging of cultures, new ideas are welcomed and accepted whereas even some old and highly honored beliefs are slowly worn down to myth and legend. For the argument of cultural development on earth to be viable as a comparison, species must have been translocated to this planet by a god or gods bringing with them their own beliefs and cultures. As every school child has been taught....no such occurrence has happened.
We must be able to sit back and bring these things to the fore when evaluating just what we "think" should be happening and "the law" in Yliakum. So before someone says "Gay marriages should be banned", maybe they should think about all the other cultures before they were brought to Yliakum and what they MAY have been like.
So far though, I have not seen a sign of this thought process being shown. Instead, just age old religious beliefs being pressed into service in a supposed game. Is this a game or an online re-enactment attempt?
If its a game, the the point is valid. If its a re-enactment....then haul out the swords and ropes to encourage conversions....those magic users are evil and must die!
;D
Im not going to even read that :P
Look you make some good points man, but you HAVE to understand that the law is the law, and all these 'what ifs' and 'objections' mean nothing as they never happened like that. The game was made this way, arguing it doesn't change The reality of Yliakum... The Octarchs wont sign the legal documents, you can have a 'partner' in planeshift, but you can't get a legal license.
If this annoys you so why don't you make a character who fights for marriage rights or something for homosexuals. But don't make it an ooc matter, or try to say that we are against gay marriage. Its the game law, the government doesn't approve.
And it has nothing to do with refferances to reality, it has everything to do with the facts in Yliakum.
Accept it, leave your liberal ideas out of character. Because Yliakum is not an extreme liberal society by a long shot.
Yliakum citizens should just be happy they have freedom of religion.
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And where did You find this "law"? Here on the forums? Or has it been recorded in Yliakum someplace? Some tomes of laws perhaps? Some official decree somewhere? How about any records of marriage licenses? Oh yes. They don't exist. And so far as I have seen, neither does this supposed law.
And thanks for admitting that You would not consider a different point of view. It shows my point that things are being brought into the RP to suit some peoples need for their values to be reflected and everone else is to be ignored.
I see a lot of " Its the Law" statements, but so far no thing showing this law or its location or anything. All I see is someone saying that the rulers of the realm of Yliakum shares their beliefs and believe as they do. Where is this law of which You speak? Where? Where?
And Oh Master, please forgive me for my Liberal ways.....Hah! Nothing liberal in acknowledging that if a species developed on a different planet, they would develop differently in many ways from this species.Of course, wo could all still believe the world is flat huh? Now I wonder what happened to that idea....Oh yeah. Some liberal fool questioned it and was later proven right.
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"Yliakum citizens should just be happy they have freedom of religion."
No, they don't. You have a choice of the four known religions to worship openly. Worshipping any other god in the open, or being found to be doing so in secret, is (would be if allowed by game mechanics) punishable by severe law.
Yliakum is not happy hippy land. You have laws, and you do not question them in the open. Complain [on the forum] all you want, but if a law is suddenly handed down that gays can not marry (or can), or all women have to wear masks in public, or be punished, that -is- what will happen. Yliakum is not meant to be a perfect world. Citizens do not get a vote.
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And where did You find this "law"? Here on the forums? Or has it been recorded in Yliakum someplace? Some tomes of laws perhaps? Some official decree somewhere? How about any records of marriage licenses? Oh yes. They don't exist. And so far as I have seen, neither does this supposed law.
Wrong. read the entire thread. I already stated it on the opening page. would have saved you a night of reviving a thread just to post the same conversation the first time it was being discussed.
no gay marriages. end of discussion.