PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Talad on September 01, 2007, 11:32:02 pm

Title: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Talad on September 01, 2007, 11:32:02 pm
Hi,
we are testing the new functionality of guildhouses, and today we made an event to sell the first one with an auction. The auction went fine, and the house was finally sold for 2.1 million trias to Donari for "Royal house of Purity" guild!!

You can see here 2 screenshots of the event. Lot of people was present.

We are planning to implement selling of houses and guildhouses, and this is just a first test toward this goal. So finally some doors can be opened!!

www.planeshift.it/pix/auctionhouse1.jpg (http://www.planeshift.it/pix/auctionhouse1.jpg)
www.planeshift.it/pix/auctionhouse2.jpg (http://www.planeshift.it/pix/auctionhouse2.jpg)
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Micha-El on September 02, 2007, 11:57:37 pm
2.1 million seems like a stupendous amount.  Do you expect all houses to sell for this price - or only Guild Houses and the like?  Any idea what a regular house will cost?  Will the price be set, or will houses always be auctioned?  Any chance of renting rooms (seriously)? 

Still love the game.  Keep up the good work, devs. 

Congrats to the 1st Guild members!  Where can I find out more about this premier Guild?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Dihenis on September 03, 2007, 12:43:31 am
2.1 million seems like a stupendous amount.  Do you expect all houses to sell for this price - or only Guild Houses and the like?  Any idea what a regular house will cost?  Will the price be set, or will houses always be auctioned?  Any chance of renting rooms (seriously)? 

well keep in mind that this was the first house to be sold so many people would want to buy it. i think the price will go down later because there is more supply(houses). i so want to rent a room in kada-el's, it makes it easier to get more alre in the middle of the night :innocent:
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Kaityra on September 03, 2007, 10:10:12 am
Hello!

Is it possible to get some screenshots from the interior, too? Thanks in advance.

With kind regards
Kaityra
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Cebot on September 03, 2007, 12:54:38 pm
I made some screenshots of the guildhouse with walktest, when 019 came out, they can be found here:

http://travpath.mine.nu/gallery/?dir=guildhouse-preview/ (http://travpath.mine.nu/gallery/?dir=guildhouse-preview/)

greetings, Cebot
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 03, 2007, 03:24:47 pm
Just to everyone to notice:

The amount of 2.1 million tria was not paid to get the first guild house in game.

It was paid instead not to set one of the most respected roleplaying guilds out of the house (they already used for over a year as home in their roleplays) and onto the street.

If we had lost our beloved house, it would have been possible that the player of Lolitra Purrty, possibly even more, would have left PlaneShift in anger. Not to mention the risk of a backstroke in the cure of her illness.

No matter if we deserve the first guildhouse or not -- the loss of roleplaying members would be a bigger hit to this game, than not being the first guild being able to enter a house. Talad, you are a lucky guy. This could have been the day when your dream turned into a nightmare. Realise it.

I fear you are proud of calling this project only a tech demo, not a game.

What is a king without a nation? - Just a man with a crown.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 03, 2007, 05:38:03 pm
You are not unique and special snowflakes

from now on no one should be playing some house as their house

if you read the octarchal decree it is pretty clear the octarchy reserves the right to seize property

so if the "royal" house (most of whom i genuinely like) left because of having their home sold out from under them it would be ooc

No house is your house except the one you buy

Until then they all belong to the settings team

"Talad, you are a lucky guy. This could have been the day when your dream turned into a nightmare. Realise it." <--- I find this quote offensive, and beneath you gag. not to mention that it is a completely empty threat.

The sense of entitlement around here is getting fairly sickening.

Enjoy your house, don't gripe about it.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Seneche on September 03, 2007, 05:45:18 pm
2.1million trias!!! What exactly does a guild house serve besides being like a gathering hall that it could be worth so much!!??
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 03, 2007, 05:49:46 pm
heh what i think is funny is that people are still complaining about gold :D

Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Draklar on September 03, 2007, 06:03:34 pm
See, now this is what I love about this Planeshift's "respected roleplayers" business.

Day after day not much is happening around, but when something actually happens; when a guild is put under a danger of losing its house; when the plot forces characters to fight for what belonged to them, do they willingly roleplay it out?
Hell no! They whine xD
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins on September 03, 2007, 06:04:20 pm
Firstly, I am very greatful to have the house.  

Secondly, I am not so fickle as to let the selling of a house turf me from this game, for it is only a game.  I would have found some RP reason to move my base to elsewhere.  As it is, I am very happy to have it as my home to allow my continued RP for that location.

As to my illness, I am not about to use that as an excuse to leave.  More so, I love the support and friendships I have gained here in PS.

Finally, I can only apologise to any one who thinks that I would have reacted any other way than with grace about what Talad did.    He is the creator and team leader of this free for us to use game, for which I am more than greatful to him, and I would have stood by him as I respect him.

I am enjoying emensly the use of the house, and am greatful to all who made it possible.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 03, 2007, 06:36:01 pm
Thank you lolitra for clarifying your position.  :love:
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 03, 2007, 09:15:31 pm
So it was all biased by my concerns... well. Apologies about my chosen words. Still, it is just what I felt when I heard that I was pushed into a hopeless situation. You played with the health of a player - in my opinion. No matter how it turned out - it was a reckless game.

And it is so paradox to me. You keep telling people you want to encourage roleplaying over pointless game mechanic using. But such a treatment shows the opposite - at least to me: It discourages those who use their imagination more than the limited features. Economy over humanity. This is an action of a coder, not of a dreamer with a vision.

In a place with a lack of emotion and sensitivity, I don't feel welcome. You know I already was a good tester. Please let me be a player too. You don't seem to need me as developer anyway (some of my published fixes are still pending).
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Draklar on September 03, 2007, 09:37:58 pm
You keep telling people you want to encourage roleplaying over pointless game mechanic using.
Shh, it's being said in secrecy from the coders. It may make them feel sad... unneeded... >.>

Now seriously: Huh?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 03, 2007, 09:41:34 pm
We, as a team, are not going to take every player roleplay into consideration when we build and expand our world. We are not going to let players get into "Why them and not me?" cryfests and favoritism rants if we acknowledge some guilds "claim" on a house and not another. Xillix is right - no one owns any property until they officially buy it. No one owns an item or a skill until they officially earn it via the game system. The DE for example is the oldest and too one of the most respected guilds in PlaneShift, with roots stretching back many years. They have property they RP as theirs. But when it's time for us to expand the game and offer that property for actual use, they won't get first dibs no matter how long they have been here.

Don't even try to throw me a "You don't seem to care about RPers" line. We care more than you can possibly imagine. But caring does not, under any circumstance, mean that we will give you something just because you decide to call it yours in the game on a whim.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins on September 03, 2007, 11:05:46 pm
Ligh, your concerns for me are very touching, and heartwarming.  I think you Role play beautifully.  I am pleased that you are willing to even tell me off when I let slip my standards...  as you do it in such a caring way.  your passions for the Role player are commendable.

the fact that the community rallied about to ensure the house remained in RP a home of the Royals is a voice in itself, a thing that you and many made possible, so, for that I think you should be overjoyed that the community is, on this occassion, for RP over mechanics.  [but if it had fallen to another guild - we would have found it an interesting time of RP...  made something of it in character to build on.. for we are players...]

Keep the RP strong in game, and the mechanics will just aid the play. 

I do sincerely believe that Talad and the team are very much for RP.  But they have to be impartial too when introducing new things into the game, I know that is a very tough job. 

To them I bow.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: saamu on September 04, 2007, 04:15:31 am
Just wondering how ownership will be dealt with
Does the owner/buyer

   own it perpetually meaning even if the owner is dead and dust in RL? (Obviously a waste of resource to the community)
   do the owner still own it if he/she leave the game for a while say 6 months or a year than come back?
   have the ability to transfer the ownership to another player?


And how about an official mortgage system (borrow to buy) with official interest rates (fluctuating of course) -this would be a good smimulation of RL regarding bugeting, repayments, repossession etc.  Hmm long term commitment ..... can keep a player in PS for life ..LOL
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Cebot on September 04, 2007, 04:31:38 am

   own it perpetually meaning even if the owner is dead and dust in RL? (Obviously a waste of resource to the community)
   do the owner still own it if he/she leave the game for a while say 6 months or a year than come back?
   have the ability to transfer the ownership to another player?

And how about an official mortgage system (borrow to buy) with official interest rates (fluctuating of course) -this would be a good smimulation of RL regarding bugeting, repayments, repossession etc.  Hmm long term commitment ..... can keep a player in PS for life ..LOL

If the player dies in RL, how can the devs know?

If the owner leaves for some time and has bought the house, not rented, then it should still be his house when he returns. Like in RL noone is gonna sell your house if you are going to travel around the world for 6 month, same ingame, the character could just decide to spend some time in the other levels of yliakum while the player takes an outtime of the game, but since houses are limited in game there should be some kind of timeout for when the house will go back to the government. like noone uses (enters) the house for about a year (or whatever period you'd like) the government decides to take back the house as their property and sell it again (this would also take the death of a player into account, as asked by you)

There are given out 9 keys to start with and the government can make more keys if needed. there is no fixed ownership as of yet, so everyone who has a key can use the house. It is technically also possible that the lock can be changed (by changing the lockID, but thats something the devs have to decide how it is gonna be happen ingame)

Yet the houses have been implemented in this release for the first time and still need some testing until everything is properly set up, so just be patient and wait for more houses to come and for the ideas the devs present to you about those houses.

Greetings, Cebot
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 04, 2007, 08:19:50 am
@ Karyuu & Draklar:

The IC excuse (punishment for not paying taxes) was more than artifical to let an OOC event look lawful... If you care so much about IC credibility, this would have required a previous reminder at least. Or you accept arbitrariness in the laws of Yliakum.

To test game mechanics, it would have been possible to start this event more subtle. What about a poll in the forums first? You could have let people chose a building a month in advance. They could have prepared for an interesting event. But half an hour in advance ... What if none of us had been online? Were you looking for just this chance? ... One can get paranoid over the chosen form. In case you wanted us out of this game, without saying so, this would have been the perfect way to tell us. This hour simply looked like mobbing / bullying to me. Even if you may not have meant it.

I would not expect a guild house from you as a gift. Really, believe me - I would have preferred to "play being inside" over getting the first guild house by such an event like the one you broke from the fence - as it appeared to me. What I would expect from you instead, was a fair chance for everyone. In case of "buying a property", roleplayers are definitely in disadvantage. Simply because they usually don't waste time on raking in money.

I have been jobless for many years. Often I would have been close to getting homeless without the help of family and friends. This event drew me back into this state instantly. Don't expect me to roleplay brilliantly in such a deep shock. Apart from the concern of Lolitra's health, I only felt fear of my IC existance.

Am I already addict?

I know I can't expect an excuse for what you did. Of course you were allowed to do it. I just wonder if you could have done it in any less offensive way. In RL, forced sales don't happen at a moment's notice either. This event was - at least - incredible / contrieved. In my opinion.

After all, well ... it opened several options to play. True. Not that I am unhappy with my current state. Only with the way I got pushed into it.


Once again: I only report my emotions here. It may sound like imputations... how could I avoid that. What would you have felt when you get taken after such a long time what you were used to. In RL, no authority would do it without a warning in advance.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Waylander on September 04, 2007, 08:38:40 am
Everybody understands that you are displeased, Gag.  And many can understand why.  But, you must realize that you are being foolish.

The worst case scenario: Somebody else buys the house.  We both know all that would happen would be Lolitra being slightly displeased and moving to a new house.  You're inability to drop the subject only makes others believe that you doubt that Lolitra is flexible and that you believe she may put her own feelings before the progression of the game.

The Devs could have spent time checking every single house to see if it already had an 'owner' or, they could spend that time developing the game.  As a fan of PlaneShift I prefer the latter, as should all fans.

Lolitra would not suffer much from having to move to another house, give her more credit than that.

She appreciates your concern, Gag.  But, let the subject rest :)  It is over and bringing it up will only extend the period of your shock and, unlike a simple moving of houses, could in time bring detriment to Lolitra's health.  I'm sure she of all people does not like seeing you thus.


Note: This can be taking a few ways.  I hope you see that I am chiefly concerned with your happiness.  Parts of it are harsh but, sometimes a friend needs to hear harsh words.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 04, 2007, 08:58:21 am
When it happened, I was unable to reach Lolitra and ask her how she feels about it. Now, afterwards, I learned that there was no need to assume the worst. But was it necessary to make me? I wish no one else to suffer the same.

Quote
Experience is a useful thing. Unfortunately, often you get it just after you needed it.

On to more happy events now.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Draklar on September 04, 2007, 11:08:24 am
To test game mechanics, it would have been possible to start this event more subtle. What about a poll in the forums first? You could have let people chose a building a month in advance. They could have prepared for an interesting event. But half an hour in advance ... What if none of us had been online? Were you looking for just this chance? ... One can get paranoid over the chosen form. In case you wanted us out of this game, without saying so, this would have been the perfect way to tell us. This hour simply looked like mobbing / bullying to me. Even if you may not have meant it.
If they did that, "roleplayers" would be here whining how devs gave powerlevelers a month to gather amounts of money greatly surpassing anything a roleplayer could have.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 04, 2007, 12:49:43 pm
 :-[ Indeed. Any finance or skill related activity means a disadvantage for non-powerlevelers.  :sleeping:
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 04, 2007, 03:32:12 pm
Earning money is not power leveling and standing around playing make believe is not role playing :)

Happy mediums people!
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: LigH on September 04, 2007, 03:54:53 pm
Oooh, Xillix -- you are the reason I do anything but "just standing around". :P


I wanted to speak to you anyway, about a Husband's Dilemma, and about a Derghir ceremony, and ...
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 04, 2007, 04:08:51 pm
That is the spirit ligh, you seem to be feeling better already!

btw, my RP made me a good bit of money  :whistling:

send me a pm on the quest material.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: peeg on September 04, 2007, 04:18:57 pm
btw, my RP made me a good bit of money  :whistling:

Ha! now I know where all the donations for the "weak and poor" gone :P
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: ThomPhoenix on September 04, 2007, 07:32:04 pm
Congratulations on getting this in-game, dev team!
There still are some issues to be worked out with instances, but when it's fixed this can become mainstream.

Players, prepare! :D
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 04, 2007, 07:56:20 pm
Ahhh the instancing? ;P
I hope i will see one day how it was so needed ;) So i can ge truly convinced about this.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Unnamed_Source on September 05, 2007, 07:10:26 am
Now we need a property tax system so if you cannot afford a new one, you can always wait 6 month and buy it in forclosure.. with The PlanShift Internal Revenue Service.

Since this is a barter system, the PS-IRS has a hard time establishing individual incomes but just wait till you start buying property...cha-ching baby, CHA-CHING! And for us investors.. lets see 2.1 mil times 5% = 105K a year, divided by 2. 52500 every six months.. how fast does the time fly in PS?? 6 RL months from now that house will have 6 trillion is unpaid back taxes and compound interest. REPO time.. Sold in a government acution for meer tria on the gold coin.. Then flip it and make at least 250K..

Yeah I like this new house system.. No more freak'n digging for gold, this is the "new" gold... So when will the IRS system be in the game, 0.03.020 maybe??
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Donari Tyndale on September 05, 2007, 11:07:19 am
A property tax? You should read the books in the library :P. Taxes are only raised when needed.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: ThomPhoenix on September 05, 2007, 11:52:41 am
Ahhh the instancing? ;P
I hope i will see one day how it was so needed ;) So i can ge truly convinced about this.
Can you clarify? How do you think it's not necessary?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 05:47:44 pm
The question is why do you think it is necessary.

Well, by instancing people will avoid risks like being heard by spies. They will use it to hide from others. In short words by instancing it is encouraged to avoid RP with strangers.

In the end there will appear RP problems, because you can't RP that there are different people at the same place and time, not knowing about it.
This will cause incosistency.
It can be bearable, but i'm pretty sure the system will allow for unnatural cutting yourself from others and so something what can't be explained ICly. The more OOC the less believable world and worse RP.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: neko kyouran on September 05, 2007, 06:02:07 pm
if i were going to have an important meeting about guild stuff that I didn't want others to hear, I would go into the house so that others couldn't eaves drop, which is essentially what has been coded thus far in game.

I see nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins on September 05, 2007, 06:04:47 pm
um??

The question is why do you think it is necessary.

Well, by instancing people will avoid risks like being heard by spies. They will use it to hide from others. In short words by instancing it is encouraged to avoid RP with strangers.

In the end there will appear RP problems, because you can't RP that there are different people at the same place and time, not knowing about it.
This will cause incosistency.
It can be bearable, but i'm pretty sure the system will allow for unnatural cutting yourself from others and so something what can't be explained ICly. The more OOC the less believable world and worse RP.

I really don't understand your point here.  It is not unnatural to live in a house... and not see others...   it is not ooc to have a secure location that cannot be overheard...

It is not encouraging one to avoid RP with strangers... the whole fun of RP is to get to know other characters.. the Guild house enables one to 'entertain' guests...  [and a by product is that you don't get inturrupted by the idiots who just run around and around - through you, shouting ooc things like 'how do I play this f**ing stupid game?'. or similar]

I don't see any RP problems at all...  the problem only arises from poor RPers... not the mechanics.

And it will mean that spies will have to be very inventive in their RP, infultrations etc...
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: bilbous on September 05, 2007, 06:43:32 pm
I can see his point to some extent. Unless you are to think that all architecture in Yliakum is soundproof and no glass is clear then instanced houses are a little OOContext. For example you really ought to be able to see into and out of windows, at least well enough to count bodies somewhat. For example if they are having a secret midnight meeting, even with translucent glass you would likely be able to see shadows where bodies block the light source. Sure steps can be taken in the interior to reduce visibility from outside, but with instanced buildings no such measures are needed.

So guild houses are out of context, essentially existing in their own plane. That just further amplifies guilds status as being out of context creations. No matter how hard a guild tries to conform to the settings the very nature of the beast means it is out of context...Guild Chat, anyone? How is that possible, in contextly?

That said it does not bother me too much as it means that you can reuse current housing for multiple purposes, Lolitra's house is her house but that does not mean it cannot also be the Klyros of Fury nest and the Yliakum Helpers desk as well. Ultimately you are likely going to have to double up housing to allow everyone to be housed anyway. In fact I would suggest that each exterior be associated with a particular interior type which owners could redecorate but not remodel and buyers could select whichever model they prefer at a set price. that way entrance to homes without a key would lead to a specific model instance. Anyone entering a home without a key would enter the same model instance. Only keyholders would enter specific owned instances.

Some kind of allowance will need to be made for burglars, I think.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 06:46:43 pm
Entering a guild house you can't be heard by others. Yes. Thats logical. You wouldn't speak about important stuff in a room where people can hear you from the street.
Although in real you can never be sure you are safe. And by instancing you are. The system permits anyone unwanted entering the same instance you are in.
Eh, its hard to focus myself today.

The game shouldn't be completly predictable. It should suprise people and suprise them like the real world does.
The instancing has nice sides as i said. But the same way people want to protect themselves from OOC interruptions, they will protect themselves from IC actions from people they don't even know and who will play spies for example. If their characters are skilled enough and the game mechanics thus allow them and then escape unnoticed with information they got, it will be called RP, even if you will know completly nothing about, even as player.

So yeah, instancing has its bad sides too. People should deal with it and remember it isn't completly good for the game. We should be aware.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 05, 2007, 07:08:13 pm
:) ever hear of infiltrating a guild?

I am not saying there is not potentially a downside, but i am saying if you are "spying" by peeking through a window, you suck at it.  ;D
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 07:13:29 pm
You guys are overthinking this. There's a line between making this 100% realistic and making it a game, and fun, and most of all work.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 07:56:32 pm
Quote
:) ever hear of infiltrating a guild?
lol, i knew someone is going to say it ;D
Of course, but you can spy without infiltrating enemy lines and playing their friend, too ;)
In many games, people say for instance: "you die if you fall into lava" True? Sounds true and right. But it turns out that if you somehow train health high enough, you can walk on a lava for 5 seconds and then walk away, like nothing happened ;D. So, true? Nope. Not true.

So, with instancing, can you spy people by looking through windows? No. So can you spy? No.
So, can you, or can not? The final answer is, you can... sometimes. How do we know if we can or not? This world basic rules are suposed to be like in real, if not, you are learning life from almost the very start.
Thats ok for a game, but its terribly bad for a RPG.
I'm speaking about things in general now, obviously not only instancing, but hopefully you all can understand what i mean and see the damage.


The fun, hah, i wouldn't write about all this if fun wasn't what i want.
How about making realistic game? ;) then you can honestly say its going to be RPG.

No, my point isnt to torture myself play a game x] - that just in case someone is going to post the opposite.

I'm going to be ignored anyway, eh.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 07:58:18 pm
Then make a suggestion for a better system of working guildhouses.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 08:03:11 pm
Hm, maybe allow any people the instance they want to be in? Means, a group of people in an instance can't permit others from entering it.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 08:04:21 pm
Is that realistic, if you own a private room or a private house? How are people allowed to enter, if they don't have any means to?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xordan on September 05, 2007, 08:06:03 pm
Instances are there to improve performance. Some people struggle to play PS as it is, we don't want to make it even harder for them.

Also, there's nothing stopping people from entering any instance right now.. except that they need a key to unlock the door to get in.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 08:29:44 pm
will they be allowed to look through windows? they would need to be in the same instance.
Perfomance problems, because of too many characters at the same time? I doubt all those characters would join the instance with players with performance problems. 95% of not 100% of them, will mind their own busines.

As about realism, yeas, you can break glass and come inside. Force the doors open and walk into the room. Not very sensitive methods, but they are allowed. Of course the law doesnt allow this, but the means does.

Of course this sounds almost like a pvp
So if course i'm not proposing this.
But i don't like idea of people who hide in a instance, like in a vault. Even if its tavern room. I can almost hear" Thief thief, get him! he entered the travern, he ran upstairs! After him!, where did he go? He disappeared... weird... "
Yeah, i suppose we we will have instanced tavern rooms once.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xordan on September 05, 2007, 08:41:35 pm
No, performance problems from having the insides of every single house loaded into memory.

There are other technical issues with looking through windows which are there even if we weren't using instances. For example, we'd need to render a portal between the two sectors (yes, we'd need separate sectors or performance would be even worse), which would hit performance as well (but not as bad as not using sectors).
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on September 05, 2007, 08:48:37 pm
I don't see the problem even windows can be shuttered closed etc.

Realistic?

or not realistic?

players seem to get us coming and going on this one.

The guildhouse is private.

Does that mean you cannot spy?

NO

You can glean a lot of info just by seeing who goes in and out. Hanging around nearby etc.

When other features are implemented other things will be possible.

Saying yet again that we are hurting rp has little traction with me.

Someone has said almost everything we have done in the last months hurts rp.

I am not buying it.

You have never been able to look into buildings that are not opened to you.

And the guildhouse has no windows on the inside. :D

Thieving Invisibility etc etc are matters we can discuss later.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 08:50:38 pm
In the same vein, should we remove guildchat because it doesn't allow you to spy on conversations of guild members? Some things are there to make the game part of this easy and functional. An instanced guildhouse is just something that has far more benefits than any other system you may propose.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 05, 2007, 09:28:36 pm
ok ok, i said there are good sides :) as well as some bad.
So, thanx for replies, i figured out that someone outside a house would be hard to be in the same instance, people in the house. And doesn't really need too. 
The problem with instancing guildhouses isn't that big.
I gues there may be problems with what Xillix said, tracking who leaves the guild house. ...
If there are two different guildhouses in the same place but different instances, you can't know if player left guild house A or B. thats just one problem.
Maybe in future the system will be improved. I'm sorry can't think o idea to fix that one.

Thanx for answers.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Under the moon on September 05, 2007, 09:41:47 pm
/me chuckles, finding this rather amusing.

Allow unlimited killing, and >90% of characters will be psychotic murderers (if they RP at all).

Allow unlimited thieving, and >90% of characters will be heartless thieves (or more likely grievers)

Allow unlimited spying, and >90% of characters will have their ears pressed against the walls of everyone else. (which is rather funny to think about)

In my opinion, only the BEST of roleplayers should have any of these abilities. Just as I think only the best of roleplayers should be the owners of guilds and guildhouses (and the power I think should come with such), not the guild that can come up with the highest sum of money. Suppose, just for a second, that the <insert lame mass guild here. you know the one> came up with more money than any other.

Just out of curiosity, what were the other guilds involved in the bidding?

Was the sale announced in advance, and for how long? (I was gone for ten days, so do not know)

Who did the sale (in character, not the actual player)?

What type of auction was it? (silent, paper, Shout out, “Wadda-ya-give-there”, or other)

Was the Settings team involved? (they should have been in charge of the actual event)

Will all houses be auctioned as such in the future? (I hope not.)

Does the guild have to continue paying ‘taxes’ to keep the house? (‘reason’ for the sale in the first place)

(PS, the ‘tax’ reason was a rather thin excuse for the auction. A much better solution could have been found, both in RP and player relations. I could name four of them off the top of my head.)
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 09:48:12 pm
And how will you judge who is the "best" roleplayer or roleplay guild that deserves a guildhouse, UTM?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Under the moon on September 05, 2007, 10:57:11 pm
That should be obvious. You want to weed out good RPers from bad? Then you have to set up an event targeting them. "We are selling this house to the one with the most money" is not a good start to that.

The guild house should not have been 'sold'. It should have been 'evented' through a series of happenings, and awarded to the guild that was deemed most worthy (or the craftiest at looking worthy). Unless you actually -needed- the millions of tria for some purpose I can not fathom.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Karyuu on September 05, 2007, 11:01:25 pm
Silly Moon, have you not learned that we don't want to deal with complaints over favoritism or subjective judgments when it comes to players' RP? :) You may think that you're capable of separating those "worthy" of a guildhouse from those who aren't, but we're simply not interested in entering such a mess, and for very good reasons.

This was an auction, not a set price. This was the price players agreed to pay. And future guildhouses will not be auctioned off but will be offered in other ways. Quit biting our heads, man.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Illysia on September 05, 2007, 11:03:31 pm
I think the new guildhouse is wonderful!  \\o// My only complaint is, what will we use for a courthouse now?  ;D It would help greatly if brittle Rpers learn to make their RP more flexible until version 1.0 comes out. If you think the issues connected to this guildhouse are disruptive to RP wait till the great wipe comes that will  come when the game gets to version 1.0.  :( If you are still around then you will have to be very flexible to keep your RP going. Maybe after the game gets to that point it will be much easier to maintain RPs.  :D
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Feline Prince on September 05, 2007, 11:31:48 pm
Why live our lives? Lets just wait for the apocalypse. Although we are 'testers first, players second' we are still players. Even saying that the Roleplayablity of the game has to be tested. Also Dev and GM's ability to promote RP has to be tested and improved. It would be nice to see the players more tolerant of the fact that everything the Dev and GM team 'test' isn't going to be perfect, other wise there would be no point testing it would there? However, it would also be nice to see the Devs acknowledge the fact it isn't perfect and state they will do it differently rather than the 'oh well seeing as your making such a fuss I guess we'll tell you that we are going to change things next time.' attitude that appears to come across.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Waylander on September 05, 2007, 11:35:17 pm
I'm sure that dev attitude will follow soon after the "ZOMG, y00z d0ing it a11 wr0ng" attitude stops coming across from the majority of the player base ;)

Having said that, you're one of the really good ones, Feline Prince, at least from what I've seen.  So this comment isn't directed at you :)
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Under the moon on September 05, 2007, 11:36:53 pm
Favoritism? Subjective judgments? You completely missunderstand me. No one would judge the guilds or characters. The situation would.

Done is done. Enjoy the new house. Hopefully, the taxes will not be based on the price paid.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Waylander on September 05, 2007, 11:42:39 pm
A property tax? You should read the books in the library :P. Taxes are only raised when needed.

I believe this should be mentioned again :P
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Under the moon on September 05, 2007, 11:46:17 pm
Waylander... that is exactly how it works in real life. When have you ever known a government that did -not- need taxes?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: TomT on September 06, 2007, 04:15:56 am
Why live our lives? Lets just wait for the apocalypse. Although we are 'testers first, players second' we are still players. Even saying that the Roleplayablity of the game has to be tested. Also Dev and GM's ability to promote RP has to be tested and improved. It would be nice to see the players more tolerant of the fact that everything the Dev and GM team 'test' isn't going to be perfect, other wise there would be no point testing it would there? However, it would also be nice to see the Devs acknowledge the fact it isn't perfect and state they will do it differently rather than the 'oh well seeing as your making such a fuss I guess we'll tell you that we are going to change things next time.' attitude that appears to come across.

I disagree - you are players first and last.  And our goal is always to try to make the game more fun for everyone.

But yes, I will confess and acknowledge that I personally am guilty of not spending enough time worrying about Feline Prince’s reaction to the features we introduce.  Sometimes we just throw stuff out and see what happens. (This is mostly because the budget for customer satisfaction testing is about empty.)

Possibly we should ban all developers from the forum and leave you all to your own discussions.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Feline Prince on September 06, 2007, 05:14:57 pm
How do you propose to effectively test a game without playing it? And I have no issue with the way you implement things into the game. Just how you handle public relations.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: bilbous on September 06, 2007, 06:31:29 pm
testing a game and playing it are quite different. when you play a game you tend to go in a linear fashion whereas when you are testing it you tend to do the same thing repeatedly with slight variations to see if it breaks.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Feline Prince on September 06, 2007, 06:42:17 pm
More than the mechanics of a game need testing.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: bilbous on September 06, 2007, 06:56:19 pm
I do not understand, the whole game is mechanics. All parts are artificial constructs designed to do specific jobs. Could you explain?
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Feline Prince on September 06, 2007, 07:44:04 pm
Well like I said. The 'Roleplayablity' of the gamer needs testing. The goal is an immersive experience, this can't be tested if you are constantly thinking about it as a game with its mechanics. And the game needs to be played to test 'playablity'.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: Nikodemus on September 06, 2007, 08:13:08 pm
you can perfectly test while playing the game. You can do both at the same time. And  it is better than playing or testing only.
Title: Re: First guild house sold in game!
Post by: neko kyouran on September 07, 2007, 12:02:30 am
right, since we seem to be all done talking about the guild house then.  ....