PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: zanzibar on September 04, 2007, 09:32:06 pm
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I'm still thinking about this one, but I think it would have interesting consequences. Basically: If you add someone to your ignore list, in addition to not hearing them, they won't be able to hear you either.
I can think of a few positives for this but I'd like to test the water first.
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Good idea. Be great if you didn't have to SEE them, or them see you, as well.
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Good idea. Be great if you didn't have to SEE them, or them see you, as well.
True true
But what if You and your (not ignored) friend where talking then a person (on your Ignored list) came along, he/she would think your friend is crazy talking to him/her self :P
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Good idea. Be great if you didn't have to SEE them, or them see you, as well.
I like this. After ignoring someone, they can still harass you by walking through your character or jumping on you. If you're invisible to one another, not only can they not do this, but they can't follow you around period.
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I think you all are missing the point of what is considered a Massive Multiplayer On-line game. Tough it out or leave or ask the authorities(GMs) to look into the matter.
On the other hand, if you want to go ahead with tis rediculous idea. Here's asuggestion, have a general ignore toggle for ON or OFF, when ON you will start to ingore everyhting with in the game. All the NPC, the rest of the PCs, etc. In the same list you can have the names of people you don't ignore and they to have toggle their ignore switch in order for you and them to see one another. And the catch is, to turn it OFF you have to wait a week RL for the effect to ware off, that way you just can't blink in and out randomly on a whim and with the consequence of not having any other interaction with in the game except for the others that decided to join you in the retreat, a weeks worth to contemplate the issue is a good preventive measure for the unsocial craving a time out. No skills, no quests, and no other interactions but a weeks sabbatical from playing the game with out actually leaving the game, a time worth of RP-chatting with close friends in a desolate but uninterupted 3D environment.
Or wait till you can buy you own house and give keys out to just your friends..
An other negative, What if you are spying on me or my guild, I can just force you to give up by placing you on my ignore list, thus disallowing you the abilities in which spying relies upon. If you want to ignore someone go right ahead but don't force it up on others.
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Oh that would be fun, you ignored someone, and that someone somehow got key to your guild house. Is there inside, stealing your stuff, but you can't know, coz you don't see him ;P
Haha.
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I think you all are missing the point of what is considered a Massive Multiplayer On-line game. Tough it out or leave or ask the authorities(GMs) to look into the matter.
Have you ever played an online game? ??? :lol:
Oh that would be fun, you ignored someone, and that someone somehow got key to your guild house. Is there inside, stealing your stuff, but you can't know, coz you don't see him ;P
Haha.
Anything you leave on the ground is up for grabs according to the player's handbook. It sucks, but it's the way things are at present. Besides, if they get a key to your guild house...
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Have you ever played an online game? ??? :lol:
Several... why??? You want me to score you up with one?.. You know, I have serval connections.. I can get you an "online game" that will meet all your expectations.. And then some.. just slip me the cash and I'll hook you up... Not out in the open! Damn it! in your palm for crying out loud.. haven't you don't this before?? ... ... ... Oh jeese, silly me, this is your first time?.. Sorry dude.. As I was saying, fork over the cash and one of these fine "on-line games" will be yours for the month..
Its almost like that Monty P(y)thon skit, where Eric Idol asks and insinuates sexual innuendos to Terry Jones just to terminate with the question "How's it(sex) done?" ... SO listen, if you are asking me for "A guild to getting it on"-line, do us both a favor buy yourself a copy of http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1885535678 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1885535678) and leave me out of it.
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Have you ever played an online game? ??? :lol:
Several... why??? You want me to score you up with one?.. You know, I have serval connections.. I can get you an "online game" that will meet all your expectations.. And then some.. just slip me the cash and I'll hook you up... Not out in the open! Damn it! in your palm for crying out loud.. haven't you don't this before?? ... ... ... Oh jeese, silly me, this is your first time?.. Sorry dude.. As I was saying, fork over the cash and one of these fine "on-line games" will be yours for the month..
Its almost like that Monty P(y)thon skit, where Eric Idol asks and insinuates sexual innuendos to Terry Jones just to terminate with the question "How's it(sex) done?" ... SO listen, if you are asking me for "A guild to getting it on"-line, do us both a favor buy yourself a copy of http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1885535678 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1885535678) and leave me out of it.
Are you drunk or something?
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I honestly don't see the point of them not hearing you ...
And if someone keeps irritating you after you /ignored them by jumping through you the whole time ... /petition.
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I believe we should deal with what world bring to us and avoid /ignore as much as possible.
But yeah, these jumping noob are annoying. But from other side we should have some IC means to deal with them... maybe one day.
And there is also a point about educating... I don't think we need the /ignore to be so strong.
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And if someone keeps irritating you after you /ignored them by jumping through you the whole time ... /petition.
I've done that often, but it usually takes a while for a GM to respond, and by then it's too late because the GMs can't do anything unless they witness the offense in action.
I believe we should deal with what world bring to us and avoid /ignore as much as possible.
Wishful thinking.
But yeah, these jumping noob are annoying. But from other side we should have some IC means to deal with them... maybe one day.
And there is also a point about educating... I don't think we need the /ignore to be so strong.
I am strongly against IC actions for OOC problems.
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If you won't educate, but /ignore, what won't stop others from doing the same?And you will end with game with more OOCers than ICers.
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If you won't educate, but /ignore, what won't stop others from doing the same?And you will end with game with more OOCers than ICers.
Are you saying it's my duty to "educate" people who wish only to disrupt and harrass the players of Planeshift?
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Figure out ;P I'm not forcing you to anything ;P
Although, honestly, there are more people who do not harass and who you can teach
I'm just saying to not be so harch.
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Figure out ;P I'm not forcing you to anything ;P
Although, honestly, there are more people who do not harass and who you can teach
I'm just saying to not be so harch.
You've completely lost me. Why would you add someone to your ignore list if they aren't doing something wrong and severe such as committing harassment?
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you lost my point. /ignore poeple if you wish
eh.
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you lost my point. /ignore poeple if you wish
eh.
Right on both counts.
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You might do it if you were in a bad mood, someone else annoyed you further and you took something the wrong way.
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You might do it if you were in a bad mood, someone else annoyed you further and you took something the wrong way.
Or you might use the ignore function on someone who's being a pest. Just a thought.
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I was just suggesting a possible answer to this:
Why would you add someone to your ignore list if they aren't doing something wrong and severe such as committing harassment?
It wasn't in reference to anything else in particular. I suppose that question was rhetorical and you didn't really want an answer.
Please excuse me for giving the obvious answer. I am trying my best to be polite but somehow it doesn't look that way. I shoulda stood in bed. ;)
Actually to get back on track, I was thinking that if your idea was to be implemented the ignoring player should have to get the ignored players permission to clear them off their ignore list. After all putting someone on your ignore list would have a significant effect and such a power ought to come with some responsibility. Also no-one ought to be considered for being involved with an official role-play (as GM helper) while having people on their ignore list. GM events should be open to all and so no-one should be ignored for the duration. If someone is being overly disruptive during the event it is for the GM to deal with it.
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Ah, I see. Yes, the question was rhetorical. The answer you gave isn't exactly obvious though.
I was thinking that if your idea was to be implemented the ignoring player should have to get the ignored players permission to clear them off their ignore list.
If you're the kind of person who ends up on ignore lists, you shouldn't be given this power.
Also no-one ought to be considered for being involved with an official role-play (as GM helper) while having people on their ignore list. GM events should be open to all and so no-one should be ignored for the duration. If someone is being overly disruptive during the event it is for the GM to deal with it.
Uh, what? We have regular players acting as GMs now? And they're using their main characters to do so? I've been away too long.
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Perhaps I did not think it out too thoroughly, I composed it after I woke up too soon, but I do think that some players have helped with GMRPs, perhaps only with one-shot characters. I could be wrong.
As far as I know I have ended up on only one ignore list and am uncertain if I am still there. I do believe that some people are too quick to ignore as it is very easy. What Nikodemus was saying makes sense to me that annoying players ought to be tolerated as much as possible rather than just written off. People definitely have different moods and role players tend to have an artistic bent, i.e. be variable and more unpredictable than others. Too much seriousness can often be followed by madcap Keystone Kop behaviour.
It seems to me that if you are someone with a long permanent ignore list my suggestion would not bother you much because you wouldn't be removing players from it in the first place. However since the list is actually locally kept and not on the server it would likely be too much trouble to change to support my addition to your idea.
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I still don't understand where you're coming from on this. People get /ignored for OOC actions, not IC ones.
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People also /ignore for OOC reasons and not IC ones. Some will ignore you for no good rreason than just because they can. My suggestion would make people think twice before writing someone off. I would go further and suggest that putting someone on ignore affects all the characters on that account because after all you are ignoring the player if the behavior that prompts the ignore is OOC.
All the same I generally do not use the feature so I do not really care what the developers decide to do with it. If people bother me I'll go somewhere else, login with an unknown character or find something else to do. PS is not essential to life. I was merely stating my thoughts on the topic you raised. As people may have noticed I actually spend a lot more time on the forums than in-game these days.
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I still don't understand where you're coming from on this. People get /ignored for OOC actions, not IC ones.
People also /ignore for OOC reasons and not IC ones.
Uh.... isn't that implied/assumed/included in what I said?
Some will ignore you for no good rreason than just because they can.
... So? Why do those people matter?
My suggestion would make people think twice before writing someone off.
You're beggining to go very off topic here. The ignore function exists to protect people, and I think it should stay that way.
I would go further and suggest that putting someone on ignore affects all the characters on that account because after all you are ignoring the player if the behavior that prompts the ignore is OOC.
I think that's on the to-do list.
All the same I generally do not use the feature so I do not really care what the developers decide to do with it. If people bother me I'll go somewhere else, login with an unknown character or find something else to do. PS is not essential to life. I was merely stating my thoughts on the topic you raised. As people may have noticed I actually spend a lot more time on the forums than in-game these days.
Again, you're going off-topic.
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Sorry if I gave you more answer than you wanted. I'm done, now, unless you have more questions.
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I would go further and suggest that putting someone on ignore affects all the characters on that account because after all you are ignoring the player if the behavior that prompts the ignore is OOC.
This would actually displease those people, who are sharing accounts, me including. If you want to ignore someone, put him on the list manually, after you figured out it's the same person.
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I would go further and suggest that putting someone on ignore affects all the characters on that account because after all you are ignoring the player if the behavior that prompts the ignore is OOC.
This would actually displease those people, who are sharing accounts, me including. If you want to ignore someone, put him on the list manually, after you figured out it's the same person.
Crap, I just reread that and realized what it actually said. I thought he was saying that the name should be added to the ignore list on all the characters on your account. I didn't realize he was saying that all the characters on their account would be ignored.
This is a really dangerous idea. It could be exploited to find someone's alts. In fact, that's all it's good for since to avoid it you could put each of your characters on a seperate account.
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I thought shared accounts were against the TOS, perhaps it just isn't enforced or I am mistaken.
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I would go further and suggest that putting someone on ignore affects all the characters on that account because after all you are ignoring the player if the behavior that prompts the ignore is OOC.
This would actually displease those people, who are sharing accounts, me including. If you want to ignore someone, put him on the list manually, after you figured out it's the same person.
Crap, I just reread that and realized what it actually said. I thought he was saying that the name should be added to the ignore list on all the characters on your account. I didn't realize he was saying that all the characters on their account would be ignored.
This is a really dangerous idea. It could be exploited to find someone's alts. In fact, that's all it's good for since to avoid it you could put each of your characters on a seperate account.
This is true, indeed. But your scenario would displease people who share accounts aswell. If Player A puts someone on his ignorelist, Player B on the same account, who is probably a different person, shouldn't be effected by it. If player B is good friends with the ignored player, he would need to scratch him from the list in order to keep the relationship, which would force Player A to tolerate him, or to put him up again.
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If all your alts are on other accounts it would not find them either. At worst it would ignore 4 characters. It just seems that if you want to punish someone for bad behavior it does no good ignoring the character that may be deleted at the end of the session. Of course that does nothing to prevent a determined griefer who can create endless accounts but it does save time as you would not need to ignore 4/account.
OT: I am not sure why you would want to share accounts when accounts are freely available, anyone can get a webmail (yahoo, hotmail, australia.edu, etc) account to use to sign up for a PS account. All it seems to do is limit the number of characters you can have from 4 to 2 or less. I suppose you must have your reasons though. Perhaps it is to supervise a minor child which would be understandable.
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Brothers and sisters share accounts, aswell as husbands and wifes, or boyfriends and girlfiriends. Since there are 4 character slots available per account, why not sharing the account that is already signed up? The only advantage of seperate accounts, is when you have two computers and want to play with your partner at the same time.
PS: what means 'OT' ?
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OT= :offtopic:
another advantage of separate accounts is more baggage handling space if you are the pack rat type.
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If all your alts are on other accounts it would not find them either. At worst it would ignore 4 characters. It just seems that if you want to punish someone for bad behavior it does no good ignoring the character that may be deleted at the end of the session. Of course that does nothing to prevent a determined griefer who can create endless accounts but it does save time as you would not need to ignore 4/account.
OT: I am not sure why you would want to share accounts when accounts are freely available, anyone can get a webmail (yahoo, hotmail, australia.edu, etc) account to use to sign up for a PS account. All it seems to do is limit the number of characters you can have from 4 to 2 or less. I suppose you must have your reasons though. Perhaps it is to supervise a minor child which would be understandable.
Are you purposely trying to miss the point? You share accounts to share characters. "At worst it would ignore 4 characters" is a laughable statement. Your statement "It just seems that if you want to punish someone" shows that you're still ignoring (or simply not getting) the reason why the ignore function exists. And every single post you make moves to derail the thread, and you're a smart enough guy to know better.
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I suppose it is just a difference in viewpoint. If you ignore someone it is to avoid having to hear from them. It could be seen as a punishment similar to makinga child sit in a corner. Now you want to avoid even seeing them. That could be seen as a harsher punishment such as sending them to their room. To me /ignore is a punishment where you withhold your character from another or blot them out of existence.
Sharing characters is bad role play as inevitably you will do something the other person would not and vice versa. It is like those novels where two or three authors try to write alternating chapters in such a way as to stick it to the others. It may be entertaining but it is not good literature.
Just because we do not share the same basic view of the nature or reason for the /ignore command does not mean I am trying to derail the thread although if you have a narrow view about thread ownership it could seem that way. I am merely trying to share my views about your idea such as they occur to me. I try not to belittle other peoples ideas and if I do not agree wholeheartedly I try to present my alternative views.
To sum up: If you add someone to your ignore list, in addition to not hearing them, they won't be able to hear you either.
It is not enough that I no longer have to listen to X's blather he should not be allowed to enjoy mine.
If you're invisible to one another, not only can they not do this, but they can't follow you around period.
If you cannot see them what possible harm can you suffer from them seeing you? I suppose they can bad-mouth you to whoever you talk to but that would just get more people to ignore them.
All-in-all if what I have said means nothing to you then I guess I just don't understand the need for this idea.
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I suppose it is just a difference in viewpoint.
You're smart enough to know what people intend to communicate, even if you disagree with their point of view.
If you ignore someone it is to avoid having to hear from them. It could be seen as a punishment similar to makinga child sit in a corner. Now you want to avoid even seeing them. That could be seen as a harsher punishment such as sending them to their room. To me /ignore is a punishment where you withhold your character from another or blot them out of existence.
The /ignore function exists to protect people from harassment. It can be used to punish people, but that isn't its purpose and I find it to be a rather childish application that we shouldn't care too much about or spend time discussing.
Sharing characters is bad role play as inevitably you will do something the other person would not and vice versa. It is like those novels where two or three authors try to write alternating chapters in such a way as to stick it to the others. It may be entertaining but it is not good literature.
I disagree with you, but it's offtopic so I'm going to ignore* it.
Just because we do not share the same basic view of the nature or reason for the /ignore command does not mean I am trying to derail the thread although if you have a narrow view about thread ownership it could seem that way. I am merely trying to share my views about your idea such as they occur to me. I try not to belittle other peoples ideas and if I do not agree wholeheartedly I try to present my alternative views.
You are replying to posts as if the posters said something they didn't intend to. It gives the appearance that you merely misread or misunderstood the posts, but I think you're both smarter than that and capable of doing better.
To sum up: If you add someone to your ignore list, in addition to not hearing them, they won't be able to hear you either.
It is not enough that I no longer have to listen to X's blather he should not be allowed to enjoy mine.
If you're invisible to one another, not only can they not do this, but they can't follow you around period.
If you cannot see them what possible harm can you suffer from them seeing you? I suppose they can bad-mouth you to whoever you talk to but that would just get more people to ignore them.
All-in-all if what I have said means nothing to you then I guess I just don't understand the need for this idea.
Again, you're replying to what was written as if something else was said. There is nothing in my post that remotely implies that what you write means nothing to me. Are you trying to flame-bait me? And why are you asking me to repeat myself?
*Roleplaying is not a form of literature. It's an activity.
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How about this:
If you wish to fully ignore a person, have an additional command for that, like /ignore_totally [name]. Then you won't ever hear nor see this person anymore, because like Zanzibar said, if they can still see you, they can bug you by running through your character or jumping on you.
So, you are both entirely invisible to eachother. But since this is some sort of a drastical measure, both players should know about the action and be alright with it. So if you really never want to be bugged by this person again, you need his approval. If he agrees, and he never wants to hear from you either, fine. But if he declines, there are two possibilities on why he did so. Either he wants to continue being an annoyance, or he doesn't know what he did wrong, he thinks he will get ignored for no reason. Either way, if he declines, there will automatically be a petition sent, or let's call it a request of accommodating the quarrel by a GM. He could function as the neutral thrid party trying to settle the differences, and to decide, whether or not a full ignore is in order.
In case there is no GM online or the GM decides against a full ignore, the normal ignore will have to do.
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So, you are both entirely invisible to eachother. But since this is some sort of a drastical measure, both players should know about the action and be alright with it. So if you really never want to be bugged by this person again, you need his approval. If he agrees, and he never wants to hear from you either, fine. But if he declines, there are two possibilities on why he did so. Either he wants to continue being an annoyance, or he doesn't know what he did wrong, he thinks he will get ignored for no reason. Either way, if he declines, there will automatically be a petition sent, or let's call it a request of accommodating the quarrel by a GM. He could function as the neutral thrid party trying to settle the differences, and to decide, whether or not a full ignore is in order.
This defeats the purpose.
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But there can't be a full ignore without restrictions. And a full ignore is what you advocated.
Good idea. Be great if you didn't have to SEE them, or them see you, as well.
I like this. After ignoring someone, they can still harass you by walking through your character or jumping on you. If you're invisible to one another, not only can they not do this, but they can't follow you around period.
Imagine you are in duel with someone and this someone hits his shortcut:
/ignore_totally >target<.
Poof.
You can exchange this obvious scenario with any other where you want to get hold of a person and he simply ignores you. Thievery for example.
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But there can't be a full ignore without restrictions.
Why not?
Imagine you are in duel with someone and this someone hits his shortcut:
/ignore_totally >target<.
Poof.
So what? People would know not to duel with that person anymore.
You can exchange this obvious scenario with any other where you want to get hold of a person and he simply ignores you. Thievery for example.
If someone's going to ignore you OOCly, they're going to ignore you OOCly one way or another.
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But there can't be a full ignore without restrictions.
Why not?
Because it's too much power to be handed to non GMs and can be abused the way I just described. You can ignore a person, for all it's worth, but you cannot force a person to ignore you too. This is just too much control you are going to unleash on that player, no matter what your reasons may be. If he doesn't want to ignore you aswell, the final decision needs to be made by a GM.
Imagine you are in duel with someone and this someone hits his shortcut:
/ignore_totally >target<.
Poof.
So what? People would know not to duel with that person anymore.
That's not the point. The point is that this player has too much power over you. He can ignore you, just because he feels like doing so, and to get an advantage over you.
You can exchange this obvious scenario with any other where you want to get hold of a person and he simply ignores you. Thievery for example.
If someone's going to ignore you OOCly, they're going to ignore you OOCly one way or another.
Absolutely. But if someone decides to ignore you, should he also be allowed to determine if you are to ignore him aswell? Further, the power of turning invisible for eachother can easily be taken IC.
I'd like to quote Nikodemus from another thread. I hope he won't mind.
I can almost hear "Thief thief, get him! he entered the travern, he ran upstairs! After him!, where did he go? He disappeared... weird... "
A very poor RP use of the feature, no doubt, especially since it is not meant to be taken IC. But still, some people will do it, if the possibility is there, without having to deal with restrictions. Of course you can choose never to RP with these persons again, but this wouldn't prevent them from using it, whenever they wish and therewith ruining other people's RPs.
And to avoid that, the power to totally ignore eachother should not lay in the hands of the players, at least not in the hands of only one. I'm most sure it would do far more harm than it would actually be of use, if available for just anyone.
PS: A statement from the officials would surely help to clarify the usefulness versus the likelihood of malpractice of this feature. Anyone?
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The "officials" like to stay out of discussions the first time they happen. That way, they avoid saying anything they might later regret. It's actually quite wise depending on what your priorities are.
To be honest, the reason why I think it should be two-ways is in part to protect against abuse of the /ignore function. It would make people take the ignore function more seriously and it would prevent the equivalent of "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" which I see in open chat far too often. It would help make the game more peaceful because in most conflicts both individuals are partly responsible so it's helpful to seperate them as much as possible for the public good.
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I see nothing wrong with seperating individuals. But if someone decides to ignore you and forces you to ignore him too (since you can't do anything about it), it means a cut of your own free will. It's not up to him to make decisions for you. And actually, what sounds so awful about a GM intervening the situation? That's one of their jobs, after all.
What can a GM do for me?
# Assist in keeping the player free from unwanted harassment.
I'll try to give a practical example on how it could be handled.
Player XYZ annoys you with following you where ever you go, yelling at you and running through your character. In other words, he is really dotty about you. You try to get rid of him. At first, calmly. You tell him to stop that. He continues. You tell him to move along, or else you will call higher authorities. He continues, because he will just be going to behave properly for if you really do. At this point, some people are so annoyed, that they choose to challenge him. He declines, then continues. Final solution, you are going to ignore him, totally, because his harrassment is not restricted to only his voice. You type in: /ignore_totally XYZ. A confirmation box pops up for XYZ. He quickly reads it, then laughs and clicks on 'No'. He continues.
What he doesn't know: By clicking on 'No', a GM will be sent the chatlogs of the last 5 minutes and the next 5 minutes, just like with /report (in case there is no GM on, it could be read up later, and then dealt with the situtation). But if a GM is on, he will now contact you. You tell him that you are being harrassed. He asks for your location and you answer him. Being invisible he comes to your position and witnesses the delinquency. With this proof, he can put you two on eachothers ignore list. Problem solved. And with a GM being the one who had the final word on it, this feature will not going to be abused in any possible way.
It would be something different, if both players agreed to the full ignore, but both at least need to have a chance to defend themselves from this feature, and their possible abuses.
As for the 'LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU', such beings are best dealt with by /report, as such a sentence is clearly OOC and disturbing not only you, but also the people around you.
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I see nothing wrong with seperating individuals. But if someone decides to ignore you and forces you to ignore him too (since you can't do anything about it), it means a cut of your own free will. It's not up to him to make decisions for you.
Our "free will" is cut quartered and compromised every which way and often. I don't see this as a problem.
And actually, what sounds so awful about a GM intervening the situation? That's one of their jobs, after all.
It can take a GM 20 minutes to respond to a petition, and once they arive it's usually too late to catch the offender in the act.
As for the 'LA LA LA, I CAN'T HEAR YOU', such beings are best dealt with by /report, as such a sentence is clearly OOC and disturbing not only you, but also the people around you.
You would think that.
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And actually, what sounds so awful about a GM intervening the situation? That's one of their jobs, after all.
It can take a GM 20 minutes to respond to a petition, and once they arive it's usually too late to catch the offender in the act.
If the offender stopped offending, I wouldn't care about why he did. And the GM still gets the logs, so all you have to do is to get a confirmation of his harrassment in form of writing. And if this still is not enough to make him stop, and he continues at some later point, just repeat the whole procedure. Some time, there will be a GM available and then I would expect a serious punishment for his repeated deeds of ruining other players' day. That would at least be the case if I was the GM.