PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: theirah on October 02, 2007, 07:00:02 am
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just curious as to peoples definitions of powerleveler, and how many you would meet in an average real-time day.
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Someone who makes being better than everyone else in certain areas their top priority. To the extent that friendship, family, etc. are being neglected (or roleplay in planeshift terms).
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I'd say that about 70% of the people that I see everyday in PS are powerlevelers. If I went to the arena at all I'd imagine that I'd see about 90%.
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Hotly contested topic, again i think the manner in which powerleveler is tossed about in ps is egregious and somewhat leet on the part of some of our role players. Nowadays it seems almost everyone is a "powerleveler." I would very much like to see the community exercise greater restraint in terms of who they label with this moniker and why. Except in the case of botters there is not much "twinking" happening. To me this indicates that we have many levelers but not many power levelers.
Ps dev team is strongly allied with the idea of teaching rp skills and the production of true immersion in our game world, players will definitely see changes that may enhance the rp aspect of the game. However, because roleplaying is highly subjective and therefore nearly impossible to codify the final responsibility for teaching rp within the community will always fall on the community itself. I would certainly like to see more of an effort made to teach new players these skills from the outset. Mind you I am not asking for anything I have not done myself.
Many of the the coders, artists, writers and demonic presences on the ps dev team currently are veteran roleplayers and very eager to improve the quality and rp-ability of PS, but as I said, it is difficult to do. Labeling other players with a word with such negative connotations cannot really be a great way to open the door to good communication. If players want the rp to improve they can do a few things fairly easily:
Host player events.
Use the temple.
Avoid cliche roles.
Stop hanging out at the smithy. (again it is loud and smelly)
Take the rain as real.
Reach out to other players.
Also note you have the dev team to blame in part as we are leeching off good rpers every week to join the team.
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Ask a hundred players and you'll get a hundred different opinions as to what a power leveler is I have only met a handful at most in 3 years of playing that I'd call a power leveler but then I'm what a lot of people would call an RP nazi so what do I know :D
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A powerleveler is anyone who trains skills, works quests, evaluates and analyzes the merits and weaknesses of the game better/faster than I do.
Naturally.
Meet a powerleveler? Why would i wish to do that? It's much more fun to disdain.
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lol
well, my own definition of powerlevelers are those that are willing to exploit bugs, cheat, and so on to level up. that would include bugs, bots, buying accounts, and so on. and as for how many I've met, probably only one or two on planeshift. on runescape, on the other hand...
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A powerlever (In PS terms--I think what theirah describes is an older, more generic term) is someone who's leveling is not backed by RP and is done completely without a thought as to how their skills pertain to and are derived from their character. While I am all about encouraging more RP, I do think we tend to overuse the term.
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I hate thinking of this as RP vs. Powerlevers. Many good rpers powerlevel at some time. In fact nearly everyone does it at some point, to some extent. I define it as training yourself hours on end, neglecting virtually everything else. Yes, mine is a universal viewpoint, but again, I don't think of it as a conflict of interests. Just as a temporary mode of playing. If that's all you do, you're still in the same catagory, just at the most extreme of it.
In other words, if you eat hamburgers, you are a hamburger eater. If you eat them every day, you are still a hamburger eater. Mmm, hamburgers...
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If you eat hamburgers and nothing else, you will die of malnutrition. If you level and do nothing else, you will die of boredom. It's all about finding a balance.
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Firstly I want to say I have nothing against leveling. I actually think a good rper is one who rps skills based on the skills they have (which makes me a bad one in my mind ;D )
I think a powerleveler is one who tries to master all aspects of the game, "beating" the game in their own heads, with no character based reason. In other words they level for "player" satisfaction when one should consider rp and level for not only "player" satisfaction but "character" satisfaction.
In the end theres a lot of different ways to take powerleveling though...If I say its someone who wants to the best one would counter with what if my character wants to be the best amd so on. Not any one way to give powerleveling an effective loophole free definition in my opinion.
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PLer = Someone who does nothing but level when on the game.
Powerleveling and being a powerleveler however are two different things. Powerleveling is just training to get your character strong, powerlevelers just thrive on the training and advancing. Heck I'm the most against powerleveling and the most for enforcing RP, and even I PLed for 5 days straight once, resulting in 50 levels of sword gained :P
I think Rayken has the best comment
If you eat hamburgers and nothing else, you will die of malnutrition. If you level and do nothing else, you will die of boredom. It's all about finding a balance.
PLers are those who ONLY do leveling and have no RP reasoning or even any RP at all.
PLing is going for any larger amount of time of purely training without RP interaction. Such as like a day or so.
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so...how many powerlevelers do you meet in a day, going by your own definitions?
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A Pler is someone who level faster than me
A Rper is someone that I need a dictionary to understand him.
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Powerlevelling?
- Analyzing every aspect of the game and game-mechanics to use levelling scheme more efficiently.
- Working to achieve singular goals in the same PS fashion as always: get PP -> get money -> train level. Preferably continuously without distractions.
I've been there too, done the same thing. But when I had to choose between a roleplay or a powerlevelling session, I mostly chose the roleplay.
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A Rper is someone that I need a dictionary to understand him.
For me it's often the other way around. I'm not trying to generalize here, but many PLers are often using some language, that is far away from being english. :P
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so...how many powerlevelers do you meet in a day, going by your own definitions?
None :) I may walk past them, but I usually don't speak to them. Heck, lucky if I even walk past them anymore, these days I spend time wandering like I should :P Pure RPer now, when I find the time.
By my definitions I would never meet a PLer :/
A Rper is someone that I need a dictionary to understand him.
For me it's often the other way around. I'm not trying to generalize here, but many PLers are often using some language, that is far away from being english. :P
I think what you're looking for is a dictionary of acronyms and slang :)
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I consider myself a power leveller too, this is because of my characters nature.
Lets take a look at Cebot, in his early times he was respectless and very rude, because of that and due to his past he had to be able to defend hisself and also be able to backup the rudeness and provocation with skills, when challenged. therefor I powerlevelled him in the needed skills for that.
Lets take a look at Denana, due to her fault of joining the Dermorian Lords in the war about Ojaveda she got cursed by the gods to be an Enki - the race she was fighting against - since she hardly fights anymore, therefor is kinda weak in weapon skill. she focuses more on crafting now, therefor I powerlevelled mining and metallurgy (the smithing skills were too boring for me to powerlevel, so i just train them when i need them actually)
So the term "power levelling" for me means to train up needed skills as fast as possible. A miner who is IC someone with years of experience but mining skill 0 is a bit unrealistic to me, same goes for a warrior who tells lores about the many wars he has participated in, but at the end is not able to defeat a weak rogue from the arena is also unrealistic for me. On the other hand someone who levels everything to the max...well, also a power leveller, but with other motives than I have.
Anyways, everyone defines the term differently.
Cebot
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A Rper is someone that I need a dictionary to understand him.
For me it's often the other way around. I'm not trying to generalize here, but many PLers are often using some language, that is far away from being english. :P
I think what you're looking for is a dictionary of acronyms and slang :)
Not quite. :) English might not be my native language (and I sometimes use an online dictionary :P), but for the most part I understand slang and abbreviations. What I can't get my head around though, is the l33tsp34k some people are making use of. It's in my opinion a rape of the english language and only shows me, how little respect someone has for those, who do not sp34k ... ehm, I mean speak this sort of 'accent' or do not want to speak it.
Just for the records: If anyone wants to talk to me here or ingame, use proper english or you'll be ignored. ;)
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Wisdom from Suvok:
In my eyes, a powerleveler is someone who's sole purpose within a game is to be better than the next guy, it is someone who regards the game as merely a tool that allows them to show off their ability to perform repetetive tasks.
An RPer on the other hand may train these skills if it is linked with their characters personality and experiances, yet primarily uses the game as an oppertunity to act out improvised situations with other RPers in an attempt to simulate the workings of a real world.
:D
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Everyone levels, until it takes more time and effort than it is worth to them.
It is supposed to be that way.
And some of the greatest RP artists that I have ever met, have maxed every combat skill, or magic, doggedly grinding away with almost inhuman resolve, hour after hour, day after day, for months and months, just so that their heroic or diabolic characters would be completely as advertised.
And PS is a "Pre-Alpha Demo".
It is officially and emphatically NOT a game.
The PS staff repeatedly call upon us to be "testers first, and players second."
And nearly the only things that there are to test, are rudimentary leveling and quests...
So you see, although there is an occasional wannabe now and then, there really isn't any such thing, as a powerleveler in PS.
Like so many other things, we only have the name.
It has not been implemented yet.
~Verrliit~
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I stopped training my characters when I realized it is pointless to do so until 1.0 or so. Half the skills for my characters aren't implemented, first of all. Second of all it is all gonna go bye bye and I'd rather the only thing I have to worry about at a wipe (GASP!) be my descriptions. One of the OOC reasons I keep a single tria on my main ;-)
Now I say I am purely RPer, don't do training and stuff, that is mainly because I dislike training and fighting in PS. I like fighting and leveling in say, LotR Online. Until recently I was the lowest level of a guild I lead :P but I trained for a day and gained a bunch of levels and am now second highest. But the guild is made for RPing :)
And Verrliit, if it isn't a game, then why is it referred to as an MMORPG? Sure it is testers first players second and all that jazz, but the players second part says it is a game :)
Anyways... Training is part of PlaneShift, even I realize that. But after maxing my character once I didn't care to a second time when they raised the caps :P
Cebot, in my definition, you're not a PLer :) Just did some PLing to get where you needed to. Sorta like the difference between being a climber or just being someone who climbs to get to another objective. Getting in a fight doesn't make someone a fighter. If all you do is powerlevel, that makes you a powerleveler.
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And Verrliit, if it isn't a game, then why is it referred to as an MMORPG? Sure it is testers first players second and all that jazz, but the players second part says it is a game :)
Honey, don't ask me, ask the PS staff.
I just quoted what has been the official word, for all the years that I have lived here.
It just struck me as a great irony.
People are essentially RPing that PLing exists.
~Verrliit~
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As I see it:
PowerLeveling: the act of striving to rapidly get skilled in a short period of time. Can be roleplay, as the character would wish to become strong. Or it can be just the desire of the player to max out in the game, with little thought about what the game is about.
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PlaneShift is a Role Playing Game immersed into a 3D virtual fantasy world which is FULLY FREE to play. Fully free means you will have no surprises of premium content which will limit your gameplay or unbalance the game. There are no limitations in skills, ranks, abilities, items you can gain with your free account. There are no time limits or additional constraints. Other similar games just advertize the "free" concept to sell you premium accounts. We don't. Servers and bandwidth will be donated by sponsors.
At the present state of development, PlaneShift is not a complete game, but what we call a "tech demo". With this definition we mean that the game is still under heavy development, so you may easily find bugs, glitches and missing features. We decided to open it to the public because we want to have your feedback on improving the game and because we have enjoyed seeing our progress being put into productive use from the beginning. Apart from this, the game is enjoyable and has hundreds of active players.
What gather from this is that, PlaneShift is a game. Just an unfinished one that is still under development.
As I see it:
PowerLeveling: the act of striving to rapidly get skilled in a short period of time. Can be roleplay, as the character would wish to become strong. Or it can be just the desire of the player to max out in the game, with little thought about what the game is about.
I class the terms 'Powerleveling' and being a 'Powerleveler' as two different things.
Powerleveling is, in my opinion, exactly what UTM just said.
Even Roleplayers can 'Powerlevel' if it enhances their characters RP. But to be a 'Powerleveler' means that you are purely playing to do this. I don't think you can be a roleplayer and powerleveler at the same time.
That's my take on things
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Verlitt gots it right...
"People are essentially RPing that PLing exists"
Consider....
There is no way around levelling, (unless you're one of those who think RP is just 3D chat), the game requires levelling in at least some skills just to be minimally functional. Since we are all going to do it at somepoint, that boils any discussion of powerlevelling down to a matter of degree (how many PPs how quickly). That would seem to be nitpicky, yet this issue keeps coming up, over and over.
Therefore, I would say the issue is not being properly framed. I think the better question here is "What is an RPer?" Incompatible definitions of RP seem to be the primary driver of the "powerlevelling" accusations, so finding out what those definitions are would seem more productive.
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Therefore, I would say the issue is not being properly framed. I think the better question here is "What is an RPer?" Incompatible definitions of RP seem to be the primary driver of the "powerlevelling" accusations, so finding out what those definitions are would seem more productive.
in that case...
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30243.0
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Consider....
There is no way around levelling, (unless you're one of those who think RP is just 3D chat), the game requires levelling in at least some skills just to be minimally functional. Since we are all going to do it at somepoint, that boils any discussion of powerlevelling down to a matter of degree (how many PPs how quickly). That would seem to be nitpicky, yet this issue keeps coming up, over and over.
I think it has been established that 'levelling in at least some skills just to be minimally functional' is not powerleveling.
I do not see the speed of leveling as a factor in whether or not your are a powerleveler:
Like I said before, 'Powerleveling' can be done in an RP sense as in the term leveling up quickly. But doesn't the term 'Powerleveler' mean something different. I see the term 'Powerleveler' as the word for someone who only plays to powerlevel.
I see characters quite alot, walking around with heavy plate armour and with the message, "You evaluate that -------- is impossible to defeat" stuck on their foreheads. When I speak to them it is evident that they have no intention of roleplaying, that they have the language skills of a teaspoon and, probably at the time, are waiting for their mob to respawn.
How do you classify that player?
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I believe Suvok is seeing things my way :)
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/me looks back at Farren's post
So I am :)
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Im not a power leveller as my logs seem to be full of me sitting about talking to players or helping newbies like me in a constructive not game destroying way.
Its not the type of game that lends itself to power levelling I would have thought. There arent that many monsters, so unless someone stands wacking away at respawning monsters in the arena I dont see how they could power level. Although I am too new to really know. Its ver unusual game in that the owner set out to create an excellent roleplaying game in the true sense. Very unusual in the present online games. I think it is extremly commendable and without exception something I have never seen in a games developer. When the community on here is good it is very good. Already I have met some extremly nice interesting people who have made the gaming experience very pleasurable. Not the same can be said about some of the forum community though.
Powerleveling its a choice I suppose not gonna let you meet many people though and there are lots of other games which are more suited to this. Again what do I know.
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My definition of a powerleveler in ANY online game, not just PS: Someone who rushes to the end of the game without taking the time to look at it. They usually make it to the maximum level of the game within a week. If they find the game too challenging to achieve this goal, they usually go onto youtube and complain on videos on the game how much it sucked in comparative to WoW...
I might have stretched the definition just a little but I've met a few like this.
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A person who will do whatever it takes to achieve his goal.
They fuel the in game economy.
They make the game feel more alive.
I like them.
You shouldn't treat them as second class citizens. Personally i think most of you guys are putting a negative slant on power-levelers but in all honesty without them, there would be little more then a few dedicated role players who enjoy spending their time talking about the few in game events that might be happening.
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MMORPG. This means it's a game where role play occurs. Playing planeshift without role playing is like playing cards without using cards. It's dumb.
Power-levelling is required for some characters. I think it's silly to play this game only to hack n' slash though, but I see nothing wrong with it as long as the people involved do not disrupt the role play. It's always cool to have people as background.
The existence of power-levellers, however, should be controlled. In a realistic environment you shouldn't have half of the population being uber smiths/warriors/etc. So to this effect, becoming powerful should be _very_ hard and it should be quite meaningless, unless sitting with a character's purpose.
Power-levellers are people who have the time and patience to upgrade their char a lot. They're not good or bad. They're just there.
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A person who will do whatever it takes to achieve his goal.
They fuel the in game economy.
They make the game feel more alive.
That doesn't sound like one to me, but like said before we all have our own definitions. What your describing sounds to me more like someone who prices everything very highly to raise the market value. Usually this leads into making it harder to aquire items. Thus people end up giving into buying from gold farmers (or what ever currency the game may have). The type of PLers i disclosed in my last post don't contribute anything to a game. and are only there to rush to the end and get bored, possibly making money providing a service to other players that goes against the games EULA. A laxxed game development company like Sony usually falls victim to this often. EverQuest 1 is a prime example.
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A person who will do whatever it takes to achieve his goal.
They fuel the in game economy.
They make the game feel more alive.
I like them.
You shouldn't treat them as second class citizens. Personally i think most of you guys are putting a negative slant on power-levelers but in all honesty without them, there would be little more then a few dedicated role players who enjoy spending their time talking about the few in game events that might be happening.
well, people leveling up there char i dont mind, yet leveling them up "power-like" i consider to be the ones who take for instance 3 npcs at once (with arrows, dazzling light and the like), while other players wont have a chance to train at all.
people like them destroy the experience for me, and quite some times make me ponder to leave, right as i just could witness a roleplayer leave.
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Actually, I dont mind what a power leveler is. There are people which presence I enjoy, others i dont. It happened to me, that some older player came and spoiled an rp i had with contant advices. Is it really imporant if a player likes to have a strong character and be able to kill an ulbernaut with one strike or if a player is a good role player? I think not. Imporatant is, if a player helps other players to enjoy the game.
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It is important to role play. We're playing a Role Play Game.
But anyway, this is where most people are wrong: Power-levelling doesn't mean not role-playing. They aren't incompatible or opposite.
A mighty warrior will spend most of its time at the arena. A mighty craftsman will spend most of its time crafting. That's why they got so mighty. You can role play these characters, and they should exist indeed. But it should be very hard because most people shouldn't settle with a life of training. And the devs should be in charge of making people feel that lack of comfort. There should be ways of making people feel more realized without training.
This is what I believe is the problem around here. Making things harder for people who want to powerlevel seems to be a difficult decision for the devs because they don't want to upset anyone. But if we're playing a RPG, the last thing we want to care about is people who should be playing Hack n' Slashes, FPSs and RTSGs.
Powerleveling alone should be made to be less gratifying, whereas having a closer relation with the setting and the other characters should count for the best form of entertainment. This can be done by tuning the level system (removing PPs for isntance) and by adding quests and events more compatible to role playing (Instead of having a Kran that asks a thousand times for the same poetry [which is something you can't role play with other people] you have a kran that knows adventurers well and will have them make deliveries and such because he knows they want to, and because he knows he'll pay less for it.)
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Actually, I dont mind what a power leveler is.
When I am alone in the tavern and my 'Next Player' shortcut can't target a soul, I move to the smithie and it happens the same, but when I step to the arena people is queuing to take a free NPC.. then I do.
27 of the 140 players online at this very point are in the Oja-road mine. But once I move to Hydlaa I will maybe find maybe 10 at the smithie and 3-4 at the tavern?
Something is certainly going the wrong way...
Power-levelling doesn't mean not role-playing. They aren't incompatible or opposite.
The definition most PS players give to power-leveling is basically about denying roleplay in favour of the senseless leveling/piling tria. They are opposite in that sense, since I doubt nobody will tell you how wrong you are to max your weaopn skill when you are roleplaying a warrior, they will most likely dislike you having maxed all your weapons' skills. After all devs put great effort into improving game mechanics and not using them is probably despising those efforts.
adding quests and events more compatible to role playing
How could I disagree? no way.
But it brings me to another point which could be considered. Other forms of powerleveling, give it the name you prefer:
- Questing: Doing each and every available quest, not caring about if your character's personality fits or not for it, just because there may be a fancy reward.
A Vesper of Laanx helping Zak or an Outlaw helping Datal aren't really making sense (nevermind the guild names, just used them as examples).
- Events: Partaking in each and every GM event just because you see a yellow/red tag (fancy item alert!) without caring at all if the even't story-line fits for your character.
I can stand at Harns asking for help for hours and I will rarely get more than 2 or 3 players around me. Normally the ones who know me. Player events? What is that? ;)
- Items: Wearing certain clothes or equipping certain items just because they are special or new.
Looking cool is sure comforting, but does it make sense that an old businessman bears a wand or a miner goes at work in plate armor? Certainly not.
In my eyes, these things are similar to powerleveling as they are basically OOC in most cases and have little to do with every character's common behavior, no matter if the player roleplays it (which often makes it even worse) or not. They damage the atmosphere and inmersion just as much as the player that can only say "Sell gold for *putyourpricehere* each" and run to the arena to smash his sword against some mobs. They just don't happen as often, or they aren't as easily spotted.
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I'm a little curious as to whether you would group people like those below as a powerleveler:
Someone who loves to learn: and therefore trains everything they can as high as they can, although time limits them
Someone who is somewhat selfish and does things only to their own benefit: therefore doing all the quest, helping people out in hopes of getting something good from them
Someone who is quite old, has died many times, and lived long enough to understand most of the world: maxed many levels, know where to find items, have an idea of how to say things in order to make people like you, understand you, etc (skills needed both in quests and diplomacy)
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Someone who loves to learn: and therefore trains everything they can as high as they can, although time limits them
Well, depends on how do you mean that time limit to happen. If it's reduced to that all they do in-game is to train, then they are powerleveling.
Someone who is somewhat selfish and does things only to their own benefit: therefore doing all the quest, helping people out in hopes of getting something good from them
That is just being selfish. If the player is then is probably OOC, therefore a powerleveler/quester in my eyes. If the player actually roleplays it (Epyrion for instance) Then it's not.
Someone who is quite old, has died many times, and lived long enough to understand most of the world: maxed many levels, know where to find items, have an idea of how to say things in order to make people like you, understand you, etc (skills needed both in quests and diplomacy)
For a start they need to RP it in a feasible way. But how many players do actually RP old characters? I've known maybe 5-6, there are surely more but yet not biggest range of average players.
All those examples are about very sensitive and particular cases and I don't think you can make categories for all of them :P
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Im not a power leveller as my logs seem to be full of me sitting about talking to players or helping newbies like me in a constructive not game destroying way.
someone stands wacking away at respawning monsters in the arena
Just like this shows, some people have no idea what role playing is. But everyone knows full well what Power-Leveling is about.
This is a problem in PlaneShift because it's easy to identify how you will go about power-leveling, and because the system incites you to remember one and forget the other. Quest-Attainable-Only items, inspire some people to make them just because they want the damn item, even if it makes no sense for their character.
Are there quests where you get conned and stolen? Are there quests with no rewards? Are quests capable of being role played along with the rest of the players?
Plus there is a clear, unrealistic line of thought where doing everything and trying everything will only bring fortune, therefore making you stronger and adding to your social standing within the game. Because you can beat the crap out of other people, or you can buy houses when you are filthy rich and that is currently about what the system can offer in player relation.
But if we focus on diverting people from those sources of entertainment, we'll certainly bring power leveling to a healthy percentage and improve everyone's experience, including the power levelers that will feel their characters are special like they should be.
"How do you propose going about that." The community needs to create distractions with what we currently have: writing, social events, etc. The developers should devise means to distract from power leveling and point towards community and role play. Eating, drinking (as in made required), could allow for chances of gathering, magic that does not interfere in combat, other systems that will require focus and time wasting like fishing and cooking, instead of new armors new clothes, etc.
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Why do people care so much, Power-Levelers will always come to PS, they will level up, get bored, turn to roleplay or leave. After maxing stats and completing quests they will have nothing to do. No one in PS is silly enough to move to different races to PL them (i hope) because fundamentally they are all the same, and classes dont exist so no picking different classes to get different abilities.
The problem eventualy solves itself, sure there are more people to fill in the holes left by the ones who get bored and leave, but even if only one in ten power levelers stay and learn to RP I think that is a great thing for PS.
:surrender:
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Why I do care quite a bit about that topic is, that I prefer to base and reason my RP with levels as well. I do know many players who do RP their training in the arena, at the anvil, the furnace, where.. for instances, and I emphasize and second that. In fact there is enough room and space for everyone.
Though, I have seen also a lot of players who, lets take the arena, rush through it, and take all npcs in reach, the ones other players are about to train with.. no, even the ones not in reach. I even know of players who intentionally attack npcs for the only reason to take them away from others (proper example is the use of Dazzling Light spells), without finishing them at all (sic!). So that behaviour I call the one of PLers, reckless and destroying the atmosphere completely.
Besides the fact that I am forced to bend my RP with a doubtful reason, the plain experience of such an immature behaviour annoys me that much, that not long ago I was pondering seriously to leave this game. I have a few friends in PS, and I like the very decent amount of deep roleplay there, not to mention the joy of watching the game improving, hence why I care.
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I feel hopeless.
Why should we care? Because improving Role Playing experience is important in a MMORPG so we should work together for that goal.
The problem does not solve itself. Power Levelers keep playing because they keep being best than other people. More so in a game where the fighting system and the crafting system are more developed and therefore more prone to be used for fun. Hence my emphasis on requiring to improve a greater diversity of systems, to divert people's attention. Obviously working the setting is a great help too, since quests should attract people to role play, and the community has a hand too.
Power Levelers aren't people who steal kills. If anyone is abusing the system, that person is simply a lamer, be it a power leveler or anyone else. Power Levelers power level. That's all.