PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marqsaynt on October 11, 2007, 05:35:22 am
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I remember the old HAGS (Hide and Go Seek) games that The Explorer's guild and others used to host. i.e. ---> http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23429.msg259634#msg259634 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23429.msg259634#msg259634) And it occurred to me the other day that with chat, /tells, etc. all now pointing to your character's location like a giant neon sign that these old HAGS games have probably gone the way of the dodo.
Sure it's been, as far as I know, around a year since any of these games have been hosted but it still feels like the end of an era to me and one I'll remember fondly. :'(
Oh well, that's enough of the reminiscing... time to look forward to the next update. Bring on the new era! (and non-lethal duels, and banks, and...) :)
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Yeah... I was thinking about doing a game of hags today.... then... I realized this... >.<
it would be nice if there just were no chat bubbles, and that you ALWAYS had to have your cursor over someone to see their name, or at least click on them...
makes stealth missions, and sneaking up on people easier... Don't get me started on the target commands, or the fact you can edit your camera to see through walls...
Or heres an idea, you can only see their name and tag if they're 100% in plain view.... without any obstructions.
Would make HAGS and stealth missions better.... most important is that you could actually... you know... ambush? :s
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Is there an option to turn the chat bubbles off? You could require that everyone turn them off... the same way that you can't zoom out in order to find someone.
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You can remove bubbles by renaming the \PlaneShift Crystal Blue\data\options\chatbubbles.xml file, though an option for doing so would be nicer, jsut as you can activate or deactivate the labels.
I normally don't like them much but at certain points I wouldn't mind having them. But just can't be arsed to relog to rename the file.
However, there is no way to check nobody is using them concerning the HAGS matter.
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for certain PVP role plays where a team is required to sneak... well chat bubbles are a bit unrealistic, and unfair. Like Noriin said, theres no way of knowing if someone is using bubbles or not...
*cough*
None the less like marqsaynt said I cannot wait for the next release, and quite frankly the little issue with hags is not a huge one concerning me, just don't talk unless through tell to someone else xD
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@Siteri: I thought about that too and I guess it could maybe work but, it just seems like with it being so easy to cheat now that someone would be bound to take advantage of the system... One of the cool things about the old HAGS games was that you could pretty much invite any person that felt like playing and just get a massive group together and have a few hours of fun... Now to make sure that some cheater didn't ruin people's experience I'd probably be less inclined to invite a person I didn't know. So, there may be a workaround (in life there usually is :) ) but still wouldn't quite be the same. ;)
Edit: Noriin makes a good point too, with there being no way to actually prove a person is cheating, I can see that leading to some less then fun situations and arguments.
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You know I thought about this, and on second thought you should consider that your character would hear if someone says something... during HAGS or a stealth mission.... and thus know which direction it came from... silence would be needed in RL... im not surprised it would be needed in PS too.... So maybe chat bubbles are a good thing to add realism?
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You're definitely right, the game always seemed IC to me but, the conversations definitely were not. :P
But for me the craziness that went on in the group chat was half the fun, I mean who wants to hide behind a barrel for 20 minutes and not say anything?
Plus, pretty sure IC our characters aren't necessarily supposed to hear our /tells. ;)
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Well since guild and group are most often ooc anyways... why not set it up so chat bubbles only appear from main?
Keeps the realisim of sound yets allow ooc to happen in group, tell, or guild without giving off a bubble?
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To be honest, I found chat bubbles always to have been a replacement for sound. The bubbles would be a visual equivalent of hearing from which direction a sound came. But just like normal chat only works when you're near them, so should the bubbles only been shown in that case. In the case of /tells and /group, bubbles shouldn't appear at all in my eyes because those tabs are mostly OOC. Maybe /tells can be used to whisper so bubbles can appear but only at a very close distance, let's say 5m (about the distance you need to be from an NPC to attack it) but the /group chat shouldn't create bubbles at all.
Also it'd be great if the bubbles were to filter out any text that is placed between round or square brackets automatically but I don't know if that's possible. :D
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Zan and Earl, I think you guys have come up with a really great idea. Keep the IC chat channel with the chat bubbles (so you can keep the IC directional "hearing" aspect) but, lose the chat bubbles when an OOC channel is used (so people can't use overly OOC means to spot your character during a stealthy RP or just a good old game of HAGS ;) ).
Besides, it always seemed a bit strange to me when a person would say something like "/group brb, dudes! pizza's here lol" and I'd actually see a chat bubble from their character seemingly actually saying it. :P
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To be honest, I found chat bubbles always to have been a replacement for sound. The bubbles would be a visual equivalent of hearing from which direction a sound came.
I like the idea of chat bubbles being equal to the sound. Then it also makes sense that you see them through the walls :)
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To be honest, I found chat bubbles always to have been a replacement for sound. The bubbles would be a visual equivalent of hearing from which direction a sound came.
I like the idea of chat bubbles being equal to the sound. Then it also makes sense that you see them through the walls :)
Only that need to be tweaked then is the viewing distance ;) i don't shout when i talk :P
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I use the chat bubbles to RP my main character. As he is blind, I turn off labels, but since with his senses he can determine certain things, he can tell where a person is if they make noise. But he can only tell -who- a person is if they speak. So I have labels off and chat bubbles on. When I see a chat bubble above someone's head, and I see it is someone who I know who said it, then I now know they are there and where they are. BTW, this is why I might walk right past someone IG without stopping unless they speak :/
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OR if you are hideing just dont talk :\
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You can still see the label.
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Well you need to find better hiding spots like I know of. but not telling...
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Perhaps in the future you could have an RP mode where everything is as it was as if you were the person. So take out seeing someone's name if you don't know them, no chat bubbles, first-person camera only, etc.
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That's hardly an RP mode :P
But possibly an option as to whether your own name is displayed >.>
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hmm I always found the tags to be the same as for exaple a face or bodytype and movements. I mean there are only a few charactermodels so as is now you couldn't even tell your own sisters apart if they were standing next to you without a tag or by selecting them.
You just have to keep in mind who you actually know the name of and who you might only know the face of.
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That's hardly an RP mode :P
But possibly an option as to whether your own name is displayed >.>
Well I don't tend to do RPs where it would require a more specific standpoint. I would have to take suggestions from others to make a more specific description.
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Perhaps in the future you could have an RP mode where everything is as it was as if you were the person. So take out seeing someone's name if you don't know them, no chat bubbles, first-person camera only, etc.
The best RP mode is to RP well.
Labels are in my opinion much of IC.
As Garile said. When my character is on plaza, he for sure recognise characters she knows. But OOC, I do not. I see several same people (same models) and without targeting, oocly I dont recognise them. For me is more disturbing, should I need to click on everyone to see who it is.
So whats more OOC? When you miss someone you know well, standing next to you? Of course it spoils the feeling and realism of the game.. but its reasonable sacrifice for me.
1st persom mode is as well a bit of problematic. Its hard to controll your character in 1st person (at least in current release). As well as your characters solid angle vision (not sure how is it called) is void.
And chat bubbles.. ::| Hm. I didnt like it as well, but got somehow used on it. And it sure has some gain as well. You perhaps see others speaking, and you dont need to keep an eye on chat lines (usefull while walking perhaps), or someone speaks when you have chat tab switched to another then main. Its unrealistic when someone overhears a character who stands in front of him. This prevents this situations a little. As well as perhaps shouting. Its logic, that your character evaluates wherefrom the sound came. Chat bubble shows it OOCly, so you can bring it to IC. (I remember that I had to ask in /tell many times about direction of shout's source).
I agree that hold to this needs a good RP skills. But its possible :) This is my humble opinion.
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Ah, good 'ol HAGS. Good to see it left an impression. :)
Yes, I can see where chat bubbles might pose a problem. Maybe someday they will provide an option for us to turn it off. Maybe by channel. To me chat bubbles make sense for main chat and even tells maybe. But not so much for other channels like guild or group. Maybe they can go so far as to enable the group leader to be able to control that.
But until then, should a game of HAGS break out at some point, we'll just have to deal with it and adjust. Either remain more silent or don't hide in such a place where the chat bubble can easily give you away. That being said, those group chats were a big part of the fun. One could fall asleep standing there in complete silence. Not to mention, it's kind of necessary for communicating what's going on.
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Heh, I just found a relevant feature request hiding in the old tracker... from 05: Bug 168 (http://www.hydlaa.com/bugtracker/bug.php?op=show&bugid=168)
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Does no one see the upside besides me? Death to HAGS... birth of Marco Polo!!! \\o// ;D
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Weren't games like HAGS and Assassins out of character activities people used as compensation for lack of gameplay features in Planeshift?
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I agree with the others who suggested that maybe the chat bubbles should only show IC chat (/say, /shout). This would help to clarify the difference between IC and OOC chat to new players also (something which is sometimes confusing and difficult for them to grasp at first). When they ask "How I can tell if something is IC or OOC?". The simple answer would be: "Chat bubbles." As the chat bubbles work now, I can see it being even more confusing for new players since even OOC chat has the appearance of coming out of the characters' mouths since it's in a bubble that is pointing right at our characters' heads. ;)
As far as HAGS goes, this would solve the problem as well. If your character speaks out loud when someone is looking for them, then he/she/kra deserve to be found. :D
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hmm I always found the tags to be the same as for exaple a face or bodytype and movements. I mean there are only a few charactermodels so as is now you couldn't even tell your own sisters apart if they were standing next to you without a tag or by selecting them.
You just have to keep in mind who you actually know the name of and who you might only know the face of.
Well there are certain people I can (and no doubt everyone else) recognizes a mile away, even without tags. Like indygo matteo... the way he wears no boots, or gloves, and sometimes not even arms, but always is seen sporting leather torso and leg armor.
Hassadria, wears no armor except leather pants, and arms. Its easy to pick her out of a crowd.
Bodacher, typically seen with two large round shields in hand
Unar, also noticed holding two shields, triangle shaped, and wears no arm armor.
Morila, two spike shields in hand, and typically is wearing a battle helmet.
Proglin, one of the few stonebreakers with green beards, he normally sports a chainmail torso, with no armor on hands or feet.
Despite the few distinguishing marks avalible, many characters have made themselves stick out in a crowd, intentionally or not, well I dunno.
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Also if you type /me before talking... no chat bubble appears. /me stalks around quietly, "You're never gunna find me!"
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It does if you're in group to everyone else in group in the same map.
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Oh yeah.... *Silavur bashfully tiptoes away hoping no one will notice him leaving*