PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: neko kyouran on November 17, 2007, 11:30:40 pm
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http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*checkout*/planeshift/trunk/docs/history.txt (http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/*checkout*/planeshift/trunk/docs/history.txt)
*** 2007-11-17 by Sasha Levin
- Added the introduction manager. By default, Your char doesn't know any
other chars. You can introduce your char to other chars by targeting
the other char and running /introduce. Until introduced, your name will
remain hidden from entity labels, char name in info window and the char
info window.
- DB VER BUMP!
- NET VER BUMP!
- Added Introduce button to interactive menu.
- GMs know everybody, gods can do that :)
enjoy in the next release (maybe). (all old threads concerning this topic anywhere on the forums will be locked and pointed to this thread if they are dug up or pointed to my direction, for organization's sake.)
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this will be... interesting.
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Finally \\o//.
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Especially "interesting" when characters that have been around for a while suddenly don't recognize anyone... :-\ Well, I guess people still have their buddy lists so, could send a /tell, look for the chat bubble, then send a /introduce at their long time IC friend so they don't have to RP something lame like mass amnesia for everyone in Yliakum. :P Come to think of it, I think most people I RP with a lot I could probably pick out just by the way the look anyway, maybe won't really be that much of a problem... I just hope people don't start spam /introducing, though I guess that would only mean you can see their name but, they can't see yours until you /introduce back.
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This will be a little disconcerting to me because I make it a specific habit to not introduce myself to anyone, although my name was tattooed to my forehead. Sadly the tattoo has seen better days and is now inaccurate. Ah well time marches on and rivers erode their banks....
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:woot: This is great! I certainly hope it's in the next release. It's great to see the way mechs start to facilitate RP as the project is developed. Keep it up!
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It sounds very good :).
It's a good idea and it's like real life \\o// \\o// \\o//
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Well, I'm assuming (hoping) that people will still be able to look at a character's description so, hopefully it won't be like going completely blind. Also, it gives another reason to use the character description feature "correctly" instead of telling a character's whole life story... unless someone wants the typical "how do you know my name, stranger?" "Uh, I'm a mind reader?" stuff again whenever a person slips up and uses their name before any type of introduction.
I'm curious to see how this turns out...
Had another thought/question, how will dialog from an unidentified character show up? I mean I'd hope there'd still be some difference so a person doesn't just end up with something like "enkidukai says:" when there are half a dozen enkis standing around... could make things complicated plus, unrealistic. After all, just because someone doesn't know a person doesn't mean that they can't differentiate what that stranger has said from every other stranger around. :P
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as those questions have been discussed to all ends over and over again in all the other threads about this same topic, you'll just have to wait to see how it is handled when it's rolled out. :)
lets refrain from just going round and round again saying exactly what has already been said before ok?
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as those questions have been discussed to all ends over and over again in all the other threads about this same topic, you'll just have to wait to see how it is handled when it's rolled out. :)
lets refrain from just going round and round again saying exactly what has already been said before ok?
I was hoping some one would say something like that :thumbup:
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Well Neko, perhaps this topic should be moved to a brand-new "General Wait-and-see" area instead of General Discussion. While I am certain that over the years and years of PS development and deliberation, virtually every idea (on every topic) that anyone could ever think of has been brought up in one form or the other, I assumed that this thread was created as a catch-all for all the ideas that maybe were mentioned years ago, or even just months ago to be once again dragged out into the spotlight. Apparently I was mistaken... Well, without any type of discussion, seems this thread is only good for giving one of these ---> \\o// to the devs and uhm, well not much else.
So, in the spirit of the thread, nice work devs, keep up the good work... :thumbup: and now I'll just keep my mouth shut. ;)
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theres plenty to discuss silly goose. one example was already listed by you in your first post about how you are going to handle going about and essentially re-introducing yourself to all the other characters your character already knows.
but since the development of the specifics to how the mechanics of this will work has already been thought out and is currently being implemented and coded for, there is no point to discuss what you think would be the best way to go about implementing it (that was what all the threads were created before this was begun to be worked on for after all)
:)
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*uses sign language so as not to break his promise of keeping his mouth shut*
"How dare you use my own post against me. :P Yeah, I get your logic but, considering it hasn't been placed in an update yet I was more hoping that any ideas that are brought up/re-brought up that may have been overlooked could be potentially addressed before it is added to an update and something doesn't possibly go according to plan, i.e. the way the distance check against NPCs last update inadvertently effected PvP dueling. I wasn't so much hoping to add how I would code this feature (particularly since I have no idea how to code to begin with :P) *wonders how a person signs brackets...* but, was more operating under the idea that until it's actually released, nothing is written in stone and tweaks here or there could still occur in hopes of avoiding exploits or unnecessary complications. Oh well, I guess a discussion on how to cope with the new feature when it is first implemented could be (read: is) a good topic too... and I'll be sure to sign whatever ideas I have on that topic, though I think that one earlier idea may have tapped my creativity. :P Good to know the "rules" for this thread so I can follow them... or at least not inadvertently break them." :whistling:
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/me looks horrified at the thought of be struck with tabula rasa...
But here's a what-if scenario, your char happens to be talking to a very help other char, without introductions made, and happens to go offline for whatever reason and you go back to look for the person then you realize everyone looks identical (especially to newbies at PS and RP) and you can't figure out who was the helpful person?
And please don't tell me make sure you introduce yourself first; it's a pain and every conversation you are ever going to start with someone is going to end up "Good morn/evenin'....I am called such-and-such": It would be like reading a story where every conversation starts with "Greetings I am...". Not at best-seller unless the author was creative with that approach.
/me looks thoughtful...now there's an idea....
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So we have to /introduce ourselves to everyone? Why can't we just roleplay greeting people?
:thumbdown:
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Neko, labels are one thing, but in the chat menu, are we going to be able to see their name and their chat bubble?
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Nice new feature for both, aiding my bad memory and to avoid people never introduced to adress with name!
The latter though may be uncomfortable in certain situations, like for instance: your char was told a description plus the name of a person, and in fact he does "know" the one, yet he would lose him within a crowd. But as long as the description still will show up it will be negligible compared to the gain!
Great work, looking forward!
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what about /report? and in both cases, how will you know which character to target?
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I really don't like this idea. Who's with me? Maybe we should make a poll about it (even if it has no effect on the next release).
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what about /report? and in both cases, how will you know which character to target?
and Neko, labels are one thing, but in the chat menu, are we going to be able to see their name and their chat bubble?
are answered:
you'll just have to wait to see how it is handled when it's rolled out. :)
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Listbard is Pleased!
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Well then, since this feature appears to be very well thought about, it must be close to perfection when it will be released, thus I'm very much looking forward to that day.
Oh, almost forgot...
Hooray! \\o// \\o// \\o//
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Perhaps it can be released that you can introduce yourself to everyone you are commonly with first before the labels become invisible. That way you can be prepared for the switch.
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What about guild members? Will I know who is in my guild or will I have to find them to /introduce myself? I would like to assume I will know at least my level 8 and maybe my level 7 guild members. Preferabely I would like to know everyone in the guild.
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I wonder if NPC's will also need to introduce themselves. Which would mean we can't tell who's an NPC and who's a stationary player unless we talk to them, or maybe if we click them and the train button appears. Not that not knowing is a bad thing. Ideally they'd be completely indistinguishable in appearance, speech, and actions.
This will be interesting :)
And for all the people out there who don't like it: I can't change things, but here's a song just for you:
*starts singing*
"...you wanna be where everybody knows your naaaammmeee..."
*ducks under thrown carp and apples; exits stage right*
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD8ljNobUys
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Neko, labels are one thing, but in the chat menu, are we going to be able to see their name and their chat bubble?
You can't see someone's name in chat, unless you've introduced yourself to him/her.
what about /report? and in both cases, how will you know which character to target?
Good question, I'll try to find out.
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Name is hidden in chat, But chat bubble still shows up.
To make introducing yourself easier it's also integrated in the menu you see when right-clicking on a player.
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But a lot of players don't use chat bubbles, y'know. That's a problem.
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That will be their problem, not the devs'. The bubbles are there by default, there is no option to turn them off, hence, those players have to modify their client to get rid of them, hence, the devs cannot be blamed for that, hence, it's their problem. :)
And a much better song for that feature -> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=lAy3lGnO-W8
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Then I'm going to have a hard time playing. What if you go AFK for a moment? I don't see why we even need this /introduction thing. Exactly why?
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In light of what everyone has to say, I don't think giving introduction buttons should be overall a problem, as long as there would be some way to identify the speaker in which you want to respond to...and perhaps even after we have this command introduced, all the races will have their own 3D model, so when wanting to a ynnwn model, you don't have the option of being wrong and it's not ynnwn but diaboli. Something to that effect. And hey, it'll help with roleplay too...if that ever was a problem. Means people will have to be more unique in how they talk, how they describe actions... In a RL conversation you look towards the gruff-speaking person rather than Remoe, the Ynnwn.
/me shrugs, "merely my spare trias."
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Then I'm going to have a hard time playing. What if you go AFK for a moment? I don't see why we even need this /introduction thing. Exactly why?
Because people don't walk around with name tags and they remain as strangers as long as they do not introduce themselves. Roleplay quality is affected by people using the name tags as information they acquired ICly (meaning their character's actually do see floating names). This means that if you wish to be unique or be able to identify strangers, you will have to take time to check descriptions and make your own detailed enough so people can actually recognize you.
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Um, can't you just be a good roleplayer instead of cheating?
I'd like to see how this turns out.
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You can't see someone's name in chat, unless you've introduced yourself to him/her.
I do have one question about this. How does introducing yourself to someone tell you who they are if they do not reciprocate. Is this a misstatement meant to be unless they've introduced themselves to you or is it literally the case?
Actually I have a few other thoughts. This seems like a kind of kludgey effort to make name tags more in character. For my money it would be improved considerably if an identify function was added once the basic system is working. Personally I forget peoples names 5 minutes after they are introduced to me unless they are of particular interest to me, I am kind of self-centered, but people whose names I need to know I can listen to conversations and get the information that way. Alternately, I can ask other people out of earshot ... "Who is that guy" or whatever.
One role play benefit to an identify function is that if you make the wrong connection you can get into embarrassing situations where the names are mixed up. If you identify someone wrongly every time you see them you will think they are someone else. A further benefit to this would be to allow for nicknames, the game would know real names but characters can go beyond that.
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I need to know I can listen to conversations and get the information that way. Alternately, I can ask other people out of earshot ... "Who is that guy" or whatever.
How about extending it with a command like "/introduce A to B". Then you can pass it along to other people, if you have been introduced to A. Wrong introductions wouldn't have to be added straight away, but could work like a server-side version of the buddylist's aliases.
When you know two people, it's only polite to introduce them to each other, instead of making them do so themselves. :)
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Hmm looks like I left out a comma or made a run on sentence there. Certainly the need to know referred to the people in the context you left out but that is okay. As I mentioned I am self absorbed and instead of introducing people I might, if I was feeling charitable, drop a name once or twice to allow them to pick up on it. I probably wouldn't say "John this is Jack. Jack, John."
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I would, but my point was about the second part of the quote. The command doesn't necessarily have to be used two way, it could also be used for one-way situations where one person is pointing out another, or even describing someone who isn't there.
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Alright, time for the dumbest on topic question in this thread...
Will people still be able to see the name labels for summoned pets or will there be a "/introduce mypet" command? :P
I know it seems like a really stupid question but, as pets become less buggy and a bigger part of the game I can imagine the same problem happening with them. However, maybe it would just be easier, and make more sense, to require all pets to have RP collars and name tags so if a person accidentally uses the name it can just be explained away by assuming the person read it off the collar?
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Will people still be able to see the name labels for summoned pets or will there be a "/introduce mypet" command? :P
just read their names on the collar
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I have to admit, that I'm neither fond in this idea. It has it's point and as idea is it nice, but.... At least I bet its too soon.
I always saw the labels as kind of way to recognize same models from all those characters.
Its clear, that not all fenkis or krans are exactly same. Are they? Now, when for example someone do in RP something bad to you, and don't introduce, you have no chance to find him again (running around and clicking on all people of his/her race for description... meh, annoying, isn't it?) and especially if he misses description (as many do).
And where is the OOC part? Why can't someone look at Miaua, in group of fenkis? /me looks at Miaua? It will be /me looks at fenki? Which fenki? Characters catches the sight, players behind PC don't, especially with not perfect graphics and mechanics.
As well... it oposites logic. You can't hear someone's name from others talk?
Voices: All characters has different voices. Text is still same. Another reason for labels.
Example: [["Who robbed you?" "Ylian!" "How does he looks like?" "...as all other blue Ylians"]] OR [[Who robbed you?" "Ylian!" "How does he looks like?" "He didn't say name... *describes 'Ylian'sname' a little*"]]
Please. Postpone this idea into times when characters will be recognizable even in game mechanics.
Labels are just ooc, as GUI.
Another possibility is to have different label colors for known and unknown names? That might be nice info for players whom they know and whom not?
I really don't want to run around and see tons of same characters. There are nicer ways to do what you wist to achieve with this idea...
Devs, consider it please. Realism is nice, but then you can also turn of GUI and all other things made for delivering OOC info towards players.
Thanks. :surrender:
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- NPCs are now also unknown to the player, until they introduce
themselves.
Ooookay. I'm quite sure that i don't like this....
I can only agree with Miaua: As long as all characters of one race nearly look the same this 'feature' is excessive. Maybe make it optional or something?
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I welcome all efforts that aim at improving the situation of the rper in planeshift...
But
And where is the OOC part? Why can't someone look at Miaua, in group of fenkis? /me looks at Miaua? It will be /me looks at fenki? Which fenki? Characters catches the sight, players behind PC don't, especially with not perfect graphics and mechanics.
As well... it oposites logic. You can't hear someone's name from others talk?
Voices: All characters has different voices. Text is still same. Another reason for labels.
Example: [["Who robbed you?" "Ylian!" "How does he looks like?" "...as all other blue Ylians"]] OR [[Who robbed you?" "Ylian!" "How does he looks like?" "He didn't say name... *describes 'Ylian'sname' a little*"]]
I think these are valid points.
Ingame world isn't real life world and there are various situations where you have to use OOC knowledge to enable reasonable IC actions. (Don't kill me for that sentence... I mean it like the ability to write "/me points at Miaua" instead of "/me points at the fenki between two other fenkis that speak with two ylians")
Generally, targeting at more realism is dangerous in a game, there are often situations where you replace one unrealistic thing with another. I don't oppose the idea itself, but as it sounds at the moment it has some drawbacks. It solves some 'problems' like being spoken to by name while the other can't know me, but the same time makes some rp much more difficult/impossible.
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I think these are valid points.
Ingame world isn't real life world and there are various situations where you have to use OOC knowledge to enable reasonable IC actions. (Don't kill me for that sentence... I mean it like the ability to write "/me points at Miaua" instead of "/me points at the fenki between two other fenkis that speak with two ylians")
"/me points at $target", having Miaua targeted.
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Is $target even usable in game? or is like sitting by the forge where the at $target is automatically added if you take an action with something selected. If you were to do this how would this introduce thing prevent me from /greet-ing someone from across the courtyard and then walking up to them un-introduced and saying Hey Charlie How is it going? It would seem to defeat the purpose of the functionality. Guess we will have to wait and see ;)
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$target only works in shortcuts
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I think the idea is just really interesting. Not sure if it will work, but I certainly want to see this to try out :)
Some remarks/ideas/rambling:
- in history.txt it now says there is an IntroductionOp for npc responses. This will make it possible to have NPCs introduce themselves when you ask "Who are you?" for example. Or just introduce themselves when you walk by. I feel sorry for the settings people who will have to code that though :). Maybe a general thing to say that will introduce them will work
- I am wondering if we will see this: "The nuisance known as Anonymous Dwarf With Too Much Armor was struck down by Laanx. Let this be a lesson to all Unkown Citizens!". Or will the Introduction Button just work without you accepting the introduction? That would make sense, as I cannot unhear after some dwarf says "Hi, I am Rurur Rarara". Allowing players to just run around and mass introduce themselves by clicking on introduce instead of description may not help role play much though :)
- What about the emotes? If I target someone, and do /sit, will some people see "Lanarel takes a seat next to Peeg" and others "A Xacha takes a seat next to a Kran", or "Lanarel takes a seat next to a Kran", etc, depending on who everyone knows? Just wondering of someone thought of that :). Maybe that also would answer the $target thing.
- I like the /introduce mypet thing. Maybe if my pet is out when I introduce, the other will know my pet too?
- I am not sure about introducing others as Manar suggested. I could just explain to someone Maanar is a Dermorian carrying a cylinder on his back, and they would just have to check the description of all non-armor wearing Dermorians :)
I really don't want to run around and see tons of same characters.
Maybe this /introduce thing will make this happen? People may start not all wearing full armor everywhere, so saying "... is a dwarf with an ugly horned helmet, even when crafting swords" actually not refers to half the population :) This reminds me of this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/alabasterlies/planeshift/shot15.jpg) picture in the screenshot thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=26613.msg269419#msg269419), with description "some guy on the rib cage". I wonder how many recognize him.
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A good start. It will need levels of recognition to be a true RP tool in the future. I can 'know' a person without ever knowing their name, being introduced, or even never hearing them talk.
"Who is that guy?"
"Don't know his name, but he comes in the tavern every day. Never says a word."
I would like to see something that could keep track of that sort of thing, and have made a thread on a similar topic in the wishlist before. :)
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I think this is a great idea, i feel that it will make RPing an evil character a lot more fun/interesting (and of course every other character as well...my evil alt just came to mind first when i read this :D). Yay Devs! :thumbup:
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Hey, I got an idea.
When this comes along, all we need now are tailors.
Why you ask?
So that on my leather armor, I can have someone stitch my name and I never have to worry.
Player: /introduce
Me: /pointsatnametag
Heck, you can etch in platemail too.
OR we can have people make nametags for a living! Tin Nametag = 1 Tin ingot, write name on it later. You could even use fire spells to do it!
Seriously though, I have to agree with all the concerns posted. Also, what about auction? Sure, you don't need a name in order to get something from someone, just meet at a specified location, but concerning people who would abuse the anonymity or otherwise. You can't tell if people are spamming or if there are three people selling the same thing. I also watch names to remember reliable buyers/sellers, but those people who I really wouldn't give a crud IC about introducing myself. 'Here's my supplies, give me money, and see you later.' I'm not looking to make friends with every sale/purchase, but...
And what about shouting? Can we tell people's names from their voices as they shout, or can we tell people's races from their voice? Just a thought, not a real concern.
Having played the bane-of-all-souls WoW for sometime, when people are given anonymity, bad things can occur. And sure, you can ignore it, but generally (at least for me), it's unavoidable to, well, avoid. I also don't like things blinking at me, so I always see why my chat box is blinking. Which can either be bad or good, but that's moot.
In any case, it still sounds interesting, so like taking your first shot of Everclear, here goes! ;)
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Different name colors could indicate if your character has learned about a person's name or not. Having visible names is necessary for GM activity, considering you can't report a player to a GM if you do not know that player's name.
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Different name colors could indicate if your character has learned about a person's name or not. Having visible names is necessary for GM activity, considering you can't report a player to a GM if you do not know that player's name.
GMs can see all names (according to Kemedes comment in history.txt "Gods can, you know" :)). The /report command could be made to work on $target. But that would only work if the person was in reach (and not running around, or using /tell's).
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Different name colors could indicate if your character has learned about a person's name or not. Having visible names is necessary for GM activity, considering you can't report a player to a GM if you do not know that player's name.
Names in brackets without introduce?
Nice compromise, to show players they doesnt know the name....
Please poll it, or consider twice. I bet it has more disadvantages and issues then a gain.
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Here's a question (or four :P), if name labels are invisible, does this mean that guild tags will also be invisible? Will guild tags even still exist? Will they become visible once you are introduced to someone or will there be some variation of a /introduce guild feature added?
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With guilds I am still wondering if we will even know our own guild members or are we going to have a case of the guild leader not even knowing their immediate suborinates and those suborinates not knowing who is in the food chain above them.
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With guilds I am still wondering if we will even know our own guild members or are we going to have a case of the guild leader not even knowing their immediate suborinates and those suborinates not knowing who is in the food chain above them.
What kind of guild were you thinking of, where someone would not know his immediate subordinates? Of course in a normal guild you will know the people you have contact with. People will probably [/]introduce themselves to people before (and after) they join, don't you think? :)
Of course when this feature would be activated, people in guilds would have to re-/introduce themselves (just as in the rest of the game). But after a while it should be normal that if someone should know your name, you should have /introduced yourself earlier.
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With guilds I am still wondering if we will even know our own guild members or are we going to have a case of the guild leader not even knowing their immediate suborinates and those suborinates not knowing who is in the food chain above them.
What kind of guild were you thinking of, where someone would not know his immediate subordinates? Of course in a normal guild you will know the people you have contact with. People will probably [/]introduce themselves to people before (and after) they join, don't you think? :)
Of course when this feature would be activated, people in guilds would have to re-/introduce themselves (just as in the rest of the game). But after a while it should be normal that if someone should know your name, you should have /introduced yourself earlier.
You just backed up what I was wondering. Guild members won't know each other after this change.
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You just backed up what I was wondering. Guild members won't know each other after this change.
They will still know eachother, but the label will for a while not show that :)