PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on November 26, 2007, 06:45:54 pm
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Ok, I should note here that IF such a thing were made possible it would take a name like "Octarchal Education Academy."
I am curious how many think this would help player retention.
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I don't think it would benefit them to be banded together and kept separate from the more experienced roleplayers.
Let's face the facts, a lot of new players that find this game are not interested in roleplaying. They're just interested in playing and enjoying themselves. Some are an exception to this and join planeshift for it's unique roleplaying properties. Force that minority together with the majority that doesn't care and I think you're more likely to scare them off than help the new players altogether.
I know how hard it is to teach one new player who is interested in learning to RP, let alone teaching an entire guild in which most of them won't be interested.
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I really do not like guilds. Enforced membership in one would be most distressing.
Would it be a time limited membership or would the player have to specifically quit? What kind of hierarchy would there be for such a mandatory membership? Would the leader, should there be one, be eligible for all the perks offered to other guilds?
"Will someone please think about the children!!!" <--- got carried away....
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/me runs around screaming
before you post...PLEASE read the thread about this! everything, including the kitchen sink has been dicussed!
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30813.0
forgive me... I'm running on coffee and two hours of sleep...count 'em...2!
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Xillix,
We all know how are you work for us, but this time I think this idea will not work. When a new player gets into game I am sure he does not want to be punished by being put in a guild that lets everyone know he is new. How would you know when they are ready to leave the guild? Would you have them take a test? What if is a player that cannot play often and has to stay in the guild for months as all his fellow ‘new’ players move on? He will feel left out. In frustration he might leave the game and that is not what you want. Would you have all new players join this guild, even the alt’s of the players that already play? Also can you imagine the size of this guild at times with the influx of new players? A leader of a guild like this would have to devote a great deal of time to it also. I believe if this is implemented you will see our community decline because new players would not stay.
I think it would be best to allow the players that know how the game works teach a new player how to play and learn by practical experience.
Leama still appreciates all that you do for us Xillix and please do not ban me, haha.
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The guild doesn't need to have a public face, it could easily be secret for anyone worried about their cred ;)
I do think it would be a good thing. Think of it like an extention of the help tab.
I remember when i first started, i was afraid to talk openly to people ooc in main (even with brackets). And as for sending random tells to people asking for advice, well....
All in all, thumbs up from me :)
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Blerkk, this idea is stupid anyway. But I gots an idea (even if it may be off topic, READ IT). I'm sick of ch00bs acting like t3h h4xx0rz.
If it's the first time you've logged in with a certain account, and before you even go to create a character, there should be a guide on roleplaying RIGHT IN YOUR FACE. So you're FORCED TO READ it BEFORE PLAYING. And the guide should list what not to do, how to /roll, how to RP fight, what's generally accepted in Yliakum, and etc. At the end of the guide there will be a little box where you type in a code, which will allow you to access the game if you enter the correct characters. The characters could be found at the end of each lesson/paragraph thingy, which forces most people to read the guide. Then you put the characters (in order) inside the code box, and then you're finished.
Hooray!
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the only way to force someone to read something, is to tape their eyes open and shove it in their face. anything else can be gotten around.
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the only way to force someone to read something, is to tape their eyes open and shove it in their face. anything else can be gotten around.
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I would make entering the guild optional. (about other options to help them/us, I'll go on in the appropiate thread)
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Like I said, most people would read it, hopefully. At least we wouldn't get so many ignorant buffoons.
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lol, we know they are ready to leave the guild when they leave it. Anyhow i can see how this is going, polling is not done with an agenda, i wanted to see how people felt about it. Clearly people do not like the idea. NP.
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Right after I voted that I would volunteer, too.
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Nobody is stopping you from educating the new ones, I do it too. Just those who are interested and rather not an entire guild at once. :P
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Xillix,
We all know how are you work for us, but this time I think this idea will not work. When a new player gets into game I am sure he does not want to be punished by being put in a guild that lets everyone know he is new. How would you know when they are ready to leave the guild? Would you have them take a test? What if is a player that cannot play often and has to stay in the guild for months as all his fellow ‘new’ players move on? He will feel left out. In frustration he might leave the game and that is not what you want. Would you have all new players join this guild, even the alt’s of the players that already play? Also can you imagine the size of this guild at times with the influx of new players? A leader of a guild like this would have to devote a great deal of time to it also. I believe if this is implemented you will see our community decline because new players would not stay.
I think it would be best to allow the players that know how the game works teach a new player how to play and learn by practical experience.
Leama still appreciates all that you do for us Xillix and please do not ban me, haha.
This quote summarizes most opposition. No offense, I'll just use specific things to counter these.
I've been pushing this idea a lot. There are a lot of things being misinterpreted.
You can leave when you want. If a newbie wants to figure it out himself, let him. Also, a time limit for a few hours might automatically enroll you in it, but you can still quit.
Ok, so you think this is a bad idea. There isn't a whole lot else we can do. Newbies leave the tutorial, and don't understand a lot. I give tours, and have found that it is easiest with several newbies. They answer each other's basic questions, and it is easier to explain 1 thing to 10 people than 10 things to 10 people individually. If 1 of the 10 doesn't ge tit. You explain it twice. It's a lot less than 10 times, I assure you.
Perhaps if these newbies are so obsessed with their 'street cred' that they won't have that label, hell, make an option to remove it.
There are quotes by newbies that it was easier with a group of people doing things together. Again, it takes shorter to explain everything.
Any other problems I missed? Also, if you hate this, what else would you have the devs do? You can't force someone to absorb all information presented to them in an information-packed tutorial. We're running out of options, and peolpe are resorting to ignoring and misleading newbies for the crime of not understanding small things. If you're so worried about having to quit this guild when you log an alt on, lead a newbie around every once in a while. You'll wish you had a group to handle it for you. It doesn't need a leader, just some volunteers that log on every once in a while and handle questions.
Again, what else would you have the devs do to help out the poor newbies?
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It's an excellent idea. When I first started I would've given anything to be put in a guild where they actually tell you how to play and how everything works, and all of the "intangibles" of PlaneShift. Fortunately I found the old H'okyba, and it was awsome from there.
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Btw the guild could be secret ;)
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I prefer each newbie choosing if they want the tags, although I don't know if this would be difficult to implement. Sometimes it helps to see that tag in a location where that newbie is lost, or that tag trying to fight an Ulber. It also makes little sense that a newbie would want that tag hidden. That tag means that they can get help if they need it by walking around, More people would be encouraged to help, as the tag puts an identity on a newbie.
It's also kind of funny that the most opposition is against the common misunderstanding that it is impossible to leave such a guild.
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I think new to game being in a starter guild is a very good Idea, will save them from uncaring guilds just out to up there numbers, as they will be protected from these types.
Also they would learn what a guild should do, that is help each other out and work as part of a team.
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One more thing to remember is that the people who respond to this poll and almost exclusively people who have had the determination to figure out the game themselves and/or the help of a guild. These people have succeeded in the game to some extent and are unlikely to leave because of the frustration the new people experience.
I think that the goal is to retain players who will not have the support of a guild and will get frustrated trying to figure out the game entirely on their own.
This must be considered when assessing the results of the poll.
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I voted no. While coming together might help them understand the game more easily some won't want to be forced into the guild in the first place. To add on to that they may all pick up the habits of not rping, even with players there helping them. Then you have to think of the amount of newbies that actually do join the game, even if its only for a few hours. Cramming those people into one guild and leaving it up to a few people to teach them probably won't work very well.
An optional guild may be a better idea.
There is an idea that I like that came from another game I've played(silkroad, though I hate that I've never found rpers). This allows other players that are more experienced to set up "schools." When your a new character you can search for one of these schools and join them. The person running this newbie school is only allowed up to a certain amount of members, can accept or refuse applications, and for running the school is rewared(either with experience or money, I've forgotten). The new players get helped because they have someone else to work with to help them more quickly get the hang of the game.
My idea for this in ps comes from the law that everyone must have formal combat training. Currently I don't understand how that works (since it seems like no ones teaching you, you just get a sword and practice) but that could be a replacement. Like a guild it will cost money to start the school. Once you start it when a new player enters the game the screen with the schools will open and if you happen to be online at the time then your school will come up. They can ask if they could join your specific school and if you accept them then their in. Its optional and while you learn the game oocly you can be getting "combat training" ic. You'd only get payed(or whatever) when you have an active member in the school and, most importantly, the newbie chooses the school, the teacher can only say yes or no. That and the limit would stop mass recruiting. There would probably be a lot of things to tweak here but I'd prefer that much more than the forced guild idea.
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I voted no. While coming together might help them understand the game more easily some won't want to be forced into the guild in the first place. To add on to that they may all pick up the habits of not rping, even with players there helping them. Then you have to think of the amount of newbies that actually do join the game, even if its only for a few hours. Cramming those people into one guild and leaving it up to a few people to teach them probably won't work very well.
An optional guild may be a better idea.
There is an idea that I like that came from another game I've played(silkroad, though I hate that I've never found rpers). This allows other players that are more experienced to set up "schools." When your a new character you can search for one of these schools and join them. The person running this newbie school is only allowed up to a certain amount of members, can accept or refuse applications, and for running the school is rewared(either with experience or money, I've forgotten). The new players get helped because they have someone else to work with to help them more quickly get the hang of the game.
My idea for this in ps comes from the law that everyone must have formal combat training. Currently I don't understand how that works (since it seems like no ones teaching you, you just get a sword and practice) but that could be a replacement. Like a guild it will cost money to start the school. Once you start it when a new player enters the game the screen with the schools will open and if you happen to be online at the time then your school will come up. They can ask if they could join your specific school and if you accept them then their in. Its optional and while you learn the game oocly you can be getting "combat training" ic. You'd only get payed(or whatever) when you have an active member in the school and, most importantly, the newbie chooses the school, the teacher can only say yes or no. That and the limit would stop mass recruiting. There would probably be a lot of things to tweak here but I'd prefer that much more than the forced guild idea.
this i like :) like the schools of old yore... or rather universities.
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The school idea is good, but it is very rare that there are many newbies playing, and then the leaders can ask for help.
You raised some points that I liked. First, this guild might ask every newbie if they want to join, and it gives a short description of what they have the option of joining. Next, the newbie guild would need a budget. Newbies can be expensive to maintain, since to kill they need a weapon, and it can't be coded to give the newbies a weapon that fits their stats. And face it. Virtually every newbie that comes out of that tutorial has a glyph.
About the rping. This was a good point. The way I feel about this is that if a newbie doesn't get the concept in a group, how else will they learn it? Few create accounts to log in at first, and it takes a dedicated, real guild to teach and enforce rp. This newbie guild is just a more specialized, custom tutorial, and if being bombarded with rping instructions doesn't work, then it's up to the guild they join to reinforce it. For example, they might understand the brackets, but not anything else. Upon joining the strict rules of 'The Sheeples,' they might finally be able to apply this confusing knowledge to something at last.
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Would this be like the tutorial where it is something you have to deal with whether you are a new player or not just because you made a new character?
If compulsory like the tutorial my answer is NO.
When I first started with playing I would have resented this. I wanted to be able to explore and start learning at my own pace. Same with my wife when she started playing. I would prefer being given the option about a guild and be given a small list of guilds that could be approached in times of need.
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Again, what else would you have the devs do to help out the poor newbies?
Why do they need to do something? In my eyes the game is perfectly fine, sure it is challenging and people are going to dislike aspects of it but that is a good filter. Those who are interested in the things the game has to offer, mainly roleplaying, they will stay around. Those who are interested in free entertainment, will most likely move on to a more entertaining game. Let's face it, this game is incomplete, at times servers are unstable, bugs are widespread and features are unbalanced. It's that what drives most new people away. It's also that what devs work on all the time.
I don't care about a guild for new players, I voted no because I see little benefit for it but that doesn't mean I'd rather not have it around. If this guild makes it in-game, that's fine by me but do realize it will be an OOC initiative where you'll mostly have to answer questions about issues, game mechanics and how to roleplay. We already have the tutorial, the forums and the help channel for that. Adding a newbie guild sounds like an effort to just go ahead and show you're doing something to help them but not offering anything that hasn't been offered yet.
Now Duraza's idea I see working much better. Take some established guilds with clear goals and requirements, as well as the approval of the guild leaders of course. As soon as a new player reaches the plaza he'll find a "Recruitment Board" where all these guilds are mentioned as well as their jobs and goals. Allow the new player to chose one of those guilds that interests them the most. The guild members will be responcible for the new player's guidance through the game and will help them with their roleplay skills. This way at least the whole thing is IC.
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i would love to see a guild for ICly teaching newbies about history and other academic things but if it is aimed solely at OOC things only I would have to say no.
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i kinda played lill the other day... well there goes months that my characters didnt enter yiliakum :surrender: and i was never a adept of roleplaying altho i could bare living on with the most that are so inclined in PS without breaking ambiance, i tink this and the non optional tutorial mode :offtopic: kinda turns many players off, be it the ones that like rp or not..
something that was discussed many times: a extra general OOC shout on chat window, could fix this and do more... well it would not be needed the advisor system since everyone would have access to the chat panel, there wouldnt be needed a mandatory guild for newbies for the same reason..
negative downsides: hmm maybe turn the mood down for the most hardcore rp players, add option to not show it
well thats my sugestion hopes this helps...
aw im still a newbie :sorcerer:
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/me hugs all newbies
I think we tend to bond automatically, without it being forced. like Anunesma said, you form your own lil groups and it's a lot more fun that way...
sorry xillix, but sometimes it being unofficial makes the game more interesting. besides, you can never force someone to play. First impressions last and quite frankly, it IS darwin's theory of natural selection in PS...if you're determined to play you'll find a way to survive.