PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 20, 2008, 06:35:19 pm

Title: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 20, 2008, 06:35:19 pm
Let's take the divine temperature shall we?

Any comments or asides you have related to the religions is welcome.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 20, 2008, 06:36:18 pm
Why aren't smurfs up there? :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: bilbous on January 20, 2008, 07:41:16 pm
While my character cannot deny there are some very powerful beings within the realm who transcend the general experience, he does not feel the need to venerate them. While the power they wield is god-like in comparison to that which he can reasonably aspire to it is not inconceivable to him that he might someday stumble across some knowledge that will propel him beyond what he can realistically expect. That such a discovery should take him to the same level of power as the established gods is not required in that some lesser level would suffice to distinguish him from the general public. Put another way, if the gods are 10 orders of magnitude more powerful than the greatest that an Yliaki can aspire to, power only two orders of magnitude greater than the normal maximum would suffice to qualify as a minor or demi-god.

I do not expect that this philosophy will ever have any support in the game mechanics and my character does not expect it will ever happen to him.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Garile on January 20, 2008, 07:51:04 pm
Don't know much of Xiosia I'm afraid :)
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Lanarel on January 20, 2008, 08:13:56 pm
Don't know much of Xiosia I'm afraid :)
When creating a new char for testing a bug, I found there is a lot of information about gods to find there :). Lanarel's vote goes to Xiosia.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: LigH on January 20, 2008, 08:24:11 pm
Gag Harmond is atheist; not disbelieving any gods (he saw Talad once), but disbelieving an inevitable fate, not believing in Gods caring so much about people that they would lead all their lives.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Duraza on January 20, 2008, 08:26:13 pm
Woot Dakkru rules!  \\o//
Though I must admit I'm curious about the Black Flame...
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Farren Kutter on January 20, 2008, 08:27:47 pm
Farren doesn't really know about gods, believes they exist and are powerful, but doesn't give a wink what they think. Yes, that was sorta meant to rhyme. But I thought of it at the last moment >.>

His viewpoint is like this: He does what he wishes. If a good favors it? Bonus :D If a god doesn't like it? Hard apples.

But in this, I would say if he knew of her existence, which to a point he does, Farren would more be liking of Xiosia.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Leama on January 20, 2008, 08:33:21 pm
Xillix,

I beleive links to the information about the religions in game would help you get a better answer to your poll for the newer members.

Regards,

Leama.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 20, 2008, 08:38:33 pm
I'm really curious about the black flame.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 20, 2008, 08:53:53 pm
My character shares a philosophy similar to Bilbous'... Or shall I say Bilbous' shares a philosophy similar to mine... The difference is that Phinehas fully expects to achieve some level of godhood eventually. I, as a player, of course do not.

However I'd have to say that the Blackflame is the most interesting to me, possibly because I feel that I know plenty about Laanx and Talad, little about the other gods, and least about the Blackflame. Phinehas is, after all, a Lemur, and as such fascinated by his race's history.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 20, 2008, 08:55:01 pm
I'm wondering who these two people are who picked "other" - meaning they probably made up some god outside of settings to worship, or they worship some mortal as a god? I dunno. Weird.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Velh Krome on January 20, 2008, 09:02:15 pm
Maybe they praise the supermighty Panda - Xiosia here.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 20, 2008, 09:05:43 pm
I'm wondering who these two people are who picked "other" - meaning they probably made up some god outside of settings to worship, or they worship some mortal as a god? I dunno. Weird.

I picked other. I worship smurfs. :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: bilbous on January 20, 2008, 09:17:18 pm
The black flame is supposed to be the most difficult to get information about as it is officially suppressed. The fact that is is an option in the creation process, I think is a mistake. I believe it has evolved since the beginning and allowing anyone to pick it goes against the settings. It would seem to me that anyone worshiping the black flame would likely give lip service to some other deity in order to avoid suspicion, not letting even their spouses or children know until it was certain they could be trusted. Thus, I think there should be some arduous quest series to bring you into the fold within the game and nobody should start as a worshiper.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 20, 2008, 09:22:42 pm
Possible Bilbous, possible.

We had discussed similar.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Under the moon on January 20, 2008, 09:31:43 pm
I don't have a main character, and all my mAlts are of their own opinion, but include all the religions. So that is my answer.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Lirreka on January 20, 2008, 09:33:14 pm
*Lirreka walks in and places a point for the Blackflame.. and leaves before she is imprisoned.*  ;)
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: RoberetGoldsmith on January 20, 2008, 09:40:53 pm
Roberet is a laanx guy  though not relgiously minded , he will occasionaly go to the temple.

 
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Duraza on January 20, 2008, 10:07:22 pm
Maybe they praise the supermighty Panda

Bow to the panda!  ;D

I'm sure there are some actual made up religions on ps. I've seen a few people who worship unknown gods and I made up a religion once too  :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Zan on January 20, 2008, 10:19:33 pm
I'm in the same boat as UtM. I have characters loyal to various gods or even accepting towards combinations of them.

I would like to say though that the only God that really made an impression is Dakkru, because she actually came into the world through a storyline we could experience as players .. none of the others have by my experience. Well Talad and Laanx have had their run ins with mortals long ago but my characters aren't that old. Black Flame would obviously not appear in public or even reveal much of it's existence and Xiosia .. there I have no idea how or when she came into contact with mortals, aside from the book.

Then there's also the fact that Dakkru's rule feels more active than that of any of the other gods, for those who have died at least.

I'd really appreciate it if the other gods picked up the pace a bit and also played a more active role in the world of Yliakum .. or any connected realms.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 20, 2008, 10:58:37 pm
I'd really appreciate it if the other gods picked up the pace a bit and also played a more active role in the world of Yliakum .. or any connected realms.
Yeah, we're stuck with a bunch of slacker-gods. Get with the program, people... err... gods!
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 21, 2008, 03:21:02 am
we'll see what we can do . . .
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: steuben on January 21, 2008, 03:21:18 am
a bit of a mixed kettlt for steuben viscosa...

xiosia by upbringing
dakkru, by second career... not that he worships her really just seems to.
and the thrall of a dead god by story... yeah i know. but i let's me crave in a few more things, that may or may not end up being eliminated as ps grows up.

but as i chase out the question more perhaps xiosia at heart. guess i'll build him as that after the next big wipe.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 21, 2008, 03:35:03 am
Quote
I beleive links to the information about the religions in game would help you get a better answer to your poll for the newer members.

Well I'm not linking anything, cause newer members would have seen the blurbs in char creation much sooner, but here's a breakdown in a sentence or two each:

Talad - Be kind and generous, cause we're all in this together.
Laanx - Strive for self-perfection, for Laanx demands no less.
Xiosia - Respect nature in all its forms.
Dakkru - Live well, so your death has more meaning.
Blackflame - *classified*
Atheist - I'm a lazy RPer who'd normally be ostracized by society for my atheism if I conformed to settings, but thank goodness there are lots of other lazy RPers around to back me up! Added bonus, I can do whatever I want cause I don't have to answer to a god, so it's easy! (Alternatively: I don't care about the gods, and don't want to interact with a society that doesn't want to interact with me because of it.)
Polytheist and Other - not really a choice at all, given the settings.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Lirreka on January 21, 2008, 03:40:00 am
Quote
Atheist - I'm a lazy RPer who'd normally be ostracized by society for my atheism if I conformed to settings, but thank goodness there are lots of other lazy RPers around to back me up! Added bonus, I can do whatever I want cause I don't have to answer to a god, so it's easy! (Alternatively: I don't care about the gods, and don't want to interact with a society that doesn't want to interact with me because of it.)
Polytheist and Other - not really a choice at all, given the settings.

I laughed, because its true -  you can just leave the rest out and have "I'm a lazy RPer"  :D
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 21, 2008, 04:40:59 am
Well if you don't want people to be 'lazy', don't write in the settings that Diaboli and Klyros walk away at the mention of religion. :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: bilbous on January 21, 2008, 05:09:11 am
You seem to have left out the worshipers of Mammon, those who's only concern is filthy lucre, this would seem to apply to many of the inveterate miners regardless of who they may profess to follow. It would also seem to include most of the power levelers who spend all their time killing things to buy that next level.
Do not get me wrong I am not suggesting Mammon as anything more than a figure of speech to represent those ruled by greed.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 21, 2008, 06:13:36 am
Oh, I know what you're saying, bilbous. However, one who powerlevels and "worships mammon" is perfectly justified in following Laanx, because he's striving to be the best he can be. Laanx loves the players who are diamonds in the Bartle test. :)

I'm just saying in regards to my "lazy RPer" comment that a lot of people cop out when RPing their character. Atheism isn't meant to be an easy path, especially when the gods make themselves known. If you want to RP an atheist within settings, you should be RPing yourself as something of an outsider, a loner, someone who other people pity and look down on. (And yes, a lot of Klyroses could justifiably fit into this for various reasons, as would Diaboli. But even they might be able to attach themselves to deities.) It doesn't go against settings to be an atheist (as it currently does to be a polytheist and worship more than one of the gods) as long as you understand such an action would have an IC consequence of ostracism.

Most players who choose atheism don't do this at all, because they think atheism's the easiest path, not having to talk about gods or think about them when making decisions. (Or in RL they're atheists and figure they should RP themselves...because it's easy to RP yourself.) They'll do everything as if they fit in perfectly with the rest of society. And as I said they certainly wouldn't. Talad and Xiosia worshippers would likely pity them from afar, whereas Laanx and Dakkru worshippers would snub them as people who are wasting their lives. To RP otherwise and take the path of least resistance is lazy. There you go.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 06:30:51 am
Isn't it possible for atheists to slip between the cracks as far as other players are concerned? They may have detrimental consequences from the gods, but surely not from other players? If I worship Laanx and you don't, I'm not going to shun you more because you don't worship Talad either, I'm only going to care that you don't worship the same god I do... Or if you do worship Talad I'm not going to say, "At least he's not an atheist."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right about people using atheism as a cop-out, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that you would be shunned by society... How would they even know? Do they follow you around to see if you ever enter any temples? I doubt it... The Laanx worshipers aren't going to interrogate everyone they meet just to make sure that they do, at least, worship somebody...
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 21, 2008, 06:32:07 am
Be like certain Dakkru followers, interrogate the crap out of them until they actually stab them with a knife to end their nagging. :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: bilbous on January 21, 2008, 06:48:38 am
Isn't there some midway between atheism and deism? I may not worship the gods but I do not generally go around denying they exist. I think it should be possible to go about your business without regard to them unless they choose to manifest themselves. It would seem only polite to reply in kind should some pious person proffer their gods blessing on you "May Laanx scare the shadows from your path" can be responded to by "and yours as well." As far as I am concerned my religion is nobodies business unless I choose to relate it. If that means I am mistaken for an adherent of the Black Flame from time to time it's followers will likely be amused but my lack of any specific knowledge may soon disprove the notion.

Would you suggest that in Yliakum the norm is to wear the emblem of your faith prominently and if so how is discrimination based on it prevented? If everyone is fanatically devoted to their deity then who are the weirdos in the sewer and why are they called Fanatics?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 21, 2008, 07:07:26 am
Quote
I may not worship the gods but I do not generally go around denying they exist.

Nor can you. The PS settings states that the gods have been present in Yliakum and it's well-documented - people have seen them. Atheism in the PS sense is exactly as you stated it - not worshipping any of the known gods. People who deny their existence are considered fools because they've been seen with people's own eyes. It's one thing to say something like "I'm not a scientologist" but downright foolishness to say something like "L. Ron Hubbard wasn't a real person and never existed."

Quote
As far as I am concerned my religion is nobodies business unless I choose to relate it.

That's not outside settings. Some don't discuss religion, merely act according to its tenets.

I don't suggest everyone has to be a zealot for their faith. However, based on one's actions others should be able to make a good guess. A worshipper of Talad would give to the poor without hesitation. A worshipper of Laanx would tell them to be more self-reliant, or give if they think generosity is a step to being a better self, and be very showy about giving. A worshipper of Xiosia might give a poor person food instead of tria. A worshipper of Dakkru would tell them to quit begging and make something of their life. An atheist might do any or none of these, and just act on whims basically. They'd be seen as chaotic individuals.

Who are the Fanatics? I'll leave that for you to discover.  :detective:
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Marqsaynt on January 21, 2008, 07:24:24 am
I think anyone that RPs atheism as a belief that the gods don't exist at all is almost certainly being a "lazy RPer" (though I can imagine at least one or two RPs where it could possibly work). But, I don't think that a character that RPed an indifference or even an outright defiance to deities would necessarily have to be an "outcast," particularly given the generally charming and social nature of the Diaboli race. However, to RP a dislike of the gods without consequences in my opinion would be just as lazy as a person that RPs that the gods don't exist.

I just see the consequences for a character having to do more with them personally dealing with the god's disdain than with them having to deal with some "witch hunt" mentality and social punishment. Yliakum is supposed to be a pretty well integrated society and by having the majority of Diaboli (and arguably Klyros) "looked down upon" and "pitied" by virtually everyone else seems to me to go against the general established settings of the realm.

For my two cents, if Jeraphon added and/or "rebel" to the list of "outsider and loner," and got rid of that "who other people pity" line, I think our views on the subject would line up fairly closely. 

Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: bilbous on January 21, 2008, 07:39:40 am
So it would be against the settings for one who has lived a miserable life for whatever reason to fear and hate all the gods? He must pick one to love in his secret heart? Certainly such a one would be a loner, an, as you say, outcast but if he is intelligent he might well be able to worm his way into any given society to accomplish his own ends.

I just don't see how these arbitrary distinctions would work in practice. I can easily imagine a farmer praying to Xiosa for a good crop, Laanx for more effective methods of sowing and reaping, giving thanks to Talad for sending the neighbors to help in the harvest and whatever. It may well be that he would primarily attend Xiosa's prayers but why would he not also wish to curry favor with the others?

I just do not understand how you can segment the populace and still expect no friction between them.

The gods seem kind of chaotic to me and the choice of which to follow seems completely arbitrary.

Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Liadan on January 21, 2008, 08:33:47 am
I'm more curious than anything else.

In this polytheist society, that is having more than one god, would it not be unusual for a character to solely give reverence to only one? Presumably, there would have to be one dominate god that everyone reveres, but wouldn't they also have a collection of minor deities on the side?  I am hesitant to use the word worship...revere reflects the nature that the RP works for now with following a god.

Like what bilbous said, the gods you serve would be dictated by your way of life, and perhaps a scholar would only worship one (or none at all, as they so frequently do), but a farmer would have many because it gives him/her comfort in knowing that there are some deities to aid with his/her crops.  As much as I hate to point this out, but the notion of 'only one' is a post-modernist ideal, which we bring into the game settings as players.  Yes, there maybe some who chose to only have one, but there may be others who conform to notion that 'more is better, all is best', as if worshiping all the gods would give them a leg-up on everyone else. 

And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images? are there saints (not sure of the Yliakum-ism for it) that are also prayed to? Is there a liturgy? How do couples of different religions get married? is it a religion sanctioned event? Or is it state-sanctioned? Are there different sects with the various worshiping of the gods? Are there monasteries and convents for those who wish to fully devote their lives?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Zan on January 21, 2008, 12:25:22 pm
Isn't it possible for atheists to slip between the cracks as far as other players are concerned? They may have detrimental consequences from the gods, but surely not from other players? If I worship Laanx and you don't, I'm not going to shun you more because you don't worship Talad either, I'm only going to care that you don't worship the same god I do... Or if you do worship Talad I'm not going to say, "At least he's not an atheist."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're not right about people using atheism as a cop-out, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that you would be shunned by society... How would they even know? Do they follow you around to see if you ever enter any temples? I doubt it... The Laanx worshipers aren't going to interrogate everyone they meet just to make sure that they do, at least, worship somebody...

Actually, Grayne tends to ask the questions straightforward, so he does interrogate everyone he meets. And he does use the phrase "At least he's not an atheist." together with a rolling of his eyes :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 21, 2008, 03:47:00 pm
Quote
And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images?

These are all great questions for the "what the settings team needs from you" thread...

But first, "there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of" - that's because Laanx is the patron deity of Hydlaa. The settings makes reference to a "temple of Talad" but it's not in Hydlaa. As for Xiosia and Dakkru, they are considered relatively new deities who just made themselves known, so it'll take time for places of worship to be made. Still, there is a priest of every religion in game for all your godly needs.

We haven't decided anything about celibacy, but it's a good question, and I'm foreseeing "no." Wouldn't celibacy be meaningless for a kran priest?

Definitely icons and images. But art isn't our department. :)

I'll leave it at that for now. Put the rest in the settings thread so we don't forget.

Oh, and also people: don't forget to participate in the poll before it gets locked for going  :offtopic: :D
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Myriel on January 21, 2008, 04:03:56 pm
Well, Myriel doesn't follow one of the gods, although she believes in them. They are just a part of reality for her, but she doesn't worship them because she can't imagine what use that would be for them (if she happened to become a god, she would hate being worshipped ;D). She sees the gods as quite 'normal' persons that have great magic powers and long lives and tend to be wiser than most people. But as they are not always there and certainly don't visit the temples regularly (at least she has never seen Laanx turn up at the Laanx temple), she doesn't think they care much.
If one of the gods would appear in front of her, she surely would show some respect (but if he seems to be in a nice mood, she would probably try to ask some questions, because she doesn't believe that the priests know so much about those gods that hardly anyone has ever met).
Sometimes she even uses phrases like "may Talad guide you", "may Laanx frighten the shadow from your path" or the like, although she doesn't think that this helps in any way (Who could tell the gods what to do?). But it's still a nice wish and can't hurt.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Duraza on January 21, 2008, 04:46:04 pm
Be like certain Dakkru followers, interrogate the crap out of them until they actually stab them with a knife to end their nagging. :P

Well Dakkru did give us the job to make sure you people start following the "right" gods  :P

In this polytheist society, that is having more than one god, would it not be unusual for a character to solely give reverence to only one?

And now I'm even more curious. When you mention worshiping, how is this done? Since there is only the Laanx Temple that I know of, how are the other gods worshiped? Do the priests partake in celibacy? Are there icons and images? are there saints (not sure of the Yliakum-ism for it) that are also prayed to? Is there a liturgy? How do couples of different religions get married? is it a religion sanctioned event? Or is it state-sanctioned? Are there different sects with the various worshiping of the gods? Are there monasteries and convents for those who wish to fully devote their lives?

Its probabaly that reason above why it wouldn't be odd for someone to only worship one god. While there is not tons of information on all these things I can bet that "worshipping" varies from god to god. Xiosia is described to be more "loose" in worship, not making people dedicate their lives (I believe it says that in character creation or something along those lines). However people who follow Laanx have a very strict god and are focused on self perfection and things like that. Then if you follow Dakkru or Talad they too are different from the others. Trying to serve more than one would cause confilct in your own life as each has a different set of beliefs and goals. Then you have to remember that the gods aren't necessarily friends as Laanx and Talad probably still hate each other.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Socius Rockus on January 21, 2008, 10:23:23 pm
Talad and Laanx both, though coming to think of it is it Common to 'Follow' Two gods?
Or is it more common to just follow one?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 21, 2008, 10:26:51 pm
Talad and Laanx both, though coming to think of it is it Common to 'Follow' Two gods?
Or is it more common to just follow one?
/me has a stroke.

Did you even read the thread?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Socius Rockus on January 21, 2008, 10:42:34 pm
 :-[ Not really, I guess i should do it now....
 :'( I'm SORRY! I'm lazy too at times!   :'(
 :flowers:
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Kieve on January 21, 2008, 10:56:32 pm
Really hard to figure out, since each has their own appeal. But on a strictly practical level, I'd have to say Kieve meshes with Laanx most closely. He's always striving to improve his abilities and himself, learning as much of magecraft as possible, and so forth. It'd be wrong to say he worships Laanx, specifically, but the ideals are closest to his own.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Zan on January 21, 2008, 11:06:00 pm
Actually I think it's very unnatural that a land with multiple known gods does not allow for polytheistic faiths. No sensible mortal would refuse to respect a god, even if another god asks them to .. unless may the other god is standing right behind them. Instead it'd be much better to have one patron god and respect the other deities when it is suitable. For example a warrior who has Laanx as a patron but also prays to Dakkru when war approaches. Or a farmer loyal to Talad but asking Xiosia to bless his fields.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 22, 2008, 01:20:18 am
The worry is that polytheism would just muddy the waters.

Just like atheism, polytheism would be too easy an answer. I can tell you we want to see characters arguing matters of faith between the deities, we want people to occupy places of faith, we are counting on players to make something of the game world.

Why can't people embrace the roles we are trying to provide for them?

I am not saying do nothing else, but what seems to be happening now is "anything but what is proscribed"
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 01:59:01 am
Well, I suppose it's your responsibility as the Settings Team to decide whether people are just being annoying and whining like they do about everything, or if they actually have a valid point. I think part of the problem is that in "real life" while there are religions with one god, or religions with many gods, there are few, if any religions where there are many gods but you only supposed to worship one, period.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 22, 2008, 02:25:42 am
Quote
I think part of the problem is that in "real life" while there are religions with one god, or religions with many gods, there are few, if any religions where there are many gods but you only supposed to worship one, period.

You're right: in real life, religions tend to be either monotheistic or polytheistic. But you're making an assumption that in Yliakum, having several gods and only being supposed to worship one is only one religion. I would say that it's several. Also, it becomes much less clear when gods reveal themselves and are known in this non-real fantasy universe.

The answer lies somewhere in the middle between (or maybe even on the fringes just outside of) the real life systems of religion and the way the D&D pantheon is set up with its revealed gods and people generally pick one as a patron but are not unheard of praying to others. Yes, our system is something of a unique one - it's definitely unfamiliar. But the question is, can you rise to the challenge and play it as written? Rather than reject it, give it a try, and if you start encountering RP problems as a result, maybe THEN we can do some tweakage. Cool?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 02:53:24 am
Hey, I'm not the one you have to convince here. Phinehas hates each of the gods equally... And not because it's a cop-out.

My question to you, in return, would be, if people give it a try(which I'm not saying everyone will, but they should) and it's not working out, will you, the devs, be willing to change it then? I'm all for trying out new ideas and systems, just so long as devs aren't as defensive about their systems as RPers get about their chars.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 22, 2008, 02:59:15 am
One problem is that every race has a "feeling" on something. Klyros is a popular race, and so are Diaboli, along with any others that, in the settings history itself, don't believe in any of the Gods. So you're calling them lazy?

Now, in real life, I call myself a Christian, but I never go to church or anything of the sort. I simply believe, that's all. Does that make me an atheist? Probably, but that doesn't mean religions in here necessarily have to have you praise and worship them to believe in them. Feelings like this develop, and until a miracle happens that may make them believe further, there's really no point in them believing in the religion to begin with.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 22, 2008, 03:16:53 am
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will you, the devs, be willing to change it then? I'm all for trying out new ideas and systems, just so long as devs aren't as defensive about their systems as RPers get about their chars.

I think there's wiggle room, personally. We are still in development. I can't speak for the whole team, but I'd be a lot more willing to change if people said "okay, I tried RPing according to this this and this actions/tried playing atheism as written and here's the problems I encountered, what do you think?" as opposed to "I'll just RP against settings. It's easier." Don't expect radical changes, naturally, but I think if we can iron out nuance, then playtest the settings just like you'd playtest the mechanics. That'll help us. :)

I've already discussed klyroses and diabolis. Please read.

Regarding praise and worship vs. belief - that's partly what I'm getting at. I think I summed up the beliefs of each religion nicely and briefly. If your character just believes, they'd act according to that belief, even if it means they don't go to the temple of Talad. You can still be kind and generous, revere nature, or make your death meaningful through life...and some think worship/prayers/services will help them remember that and take it to heart. Laanx believers might feel more impelled to worship, for "Laanx demands no less." :)
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 22, 2008, 03:24:05 am
Phinehas, do you even have to ask?

We have already changed so much.

Suno the klyros and diaboli are two of the least chosen races according to my stats. If i need to rewrite their histories to get you to stop copping out NP.

The klyros are specifically resistant to being FORCED to comply to deities, not gravitating toward them over time.

The diaboli are now moving toward Xiosia as a less judgmental deity who allows for who they are naturally.

Obviously you like arguing for the sake of it, if you cannot see the overarching point about roleplaying options being ignored ok.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Earl_Listbard on January 22, 2008, 03:26:36 am
Phinehas, do you even have to ask?

We have already changed so much.

Suno the klyros and diaboli are two of the least chosen races according to my stats. If i need to rewrite their histories to get you to stop copping out NP.

I'd have to disagree, and say xacha, and lemur are the fewest races chosen.

Not to add drama or anything to this already drama filled area.

But this is just coming from a simple player, what would I know?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 22, 2008, 03:29:15 am
I have user stats and db dumps listy.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Suno_Regin on January 22, 2008, 03:30:32 am
Obviously you like arguing for the sake of it, if you cannot see the overarching point about roleplaying options being ignored ok.

No, Xillix, you're just getting pissed off, that's all there is to it. That was a logical statement, and if you're calling people lazy for not going toward a religion, even though the race is written in history not to (history, not your post), and there's even an atheism choice in character creation, I don't see what makes us so lazy according to you. It's a choice, so don't start getting pissy at people for choosing it.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 03:31:58 am
And even if there were less Lemurs than anyone else, we count for several of any other race because frankly, we're that good.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 22, 2008, 04:37:48 am
Suno, I am not angry.

One can see from the poll data that people are not taking the "options" and what is written of them seriously in character creation.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Earl_Listbard on January 22, 2008, 04:50:54 am
Suno, I am not angry.

One can see from the poll data that some people are not taking the "options" and what is written of them seriously in character creation.

Edited January 21 2008  By Earl_Listbard

Most of the players whom voted actually picked a god, and not none or all. Though you guys need to chill, I'm 100% for informing players that atheism is stupid in PS, but don't get so stressed out with stuff...

Its a game... Really!  :o
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: zorbels on January 22, 2008, 05:11:23 am
I choose Laanx. This is who Zorbels chooses to follow. Why? Because Talad and Laanx were the only religions that had enough info for me to feel I could roleplay with it and not be over stepping settings. Also because I found the story of Laanx to be interesting and my character can relate to laanx.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Jeraphon on January 22, 2008, 05:35:32 am
I choose Laanx. This is who Zorbels chooses to follow. Why? Because Talad and Laanx were the only religions that had enough info for me to feel I could roleplay with it and not be over stepping settings. Also because I found the story of Laanx to be interesting and my character can relate to laanx.

Fair enough. Good answer. :)

We're working on getting more info out there. It's only logical that there isn't much info existing about newer deities. Still, it's pleasing to see that Xiosia and Dakkru are already gaining followings. I wasn't expecting numbers that high.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Phinehas on January 22, 2008, 05:43:48 am
I think that's for two reasons. For one, they're new, which is always fun. For two, they seem, in some ways, to be more easily grasped. I'm sure they're just as deep and intricate as Talad and Laanx, but you can say, Dakkru is the godess of death, and Xiosia is the goddess of nature, or whatever, and while that's not all they are, it's not hard to understand. Whereas Laanx and Talad area little more ambiguous.
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Silavur on January 22, 2008, 08:21:26 am
I answered none. But Silavur does yell Talad's name occasionally.  Does that count?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Zan on January 22, 2008, 10:30:28 am
I think there's wiggle room, personally. We are still in development. I can't speak for the whole team, but I'd be a lot more willing to change if people said "okay, I tried RPing according to this this and this actions/tried playing atheism as written and here's the problems I encountered, what do you think?" as opposed to "I'll just RP against settings. It's easier." Don't expect radical changes, naturally, but I think if we can iron out nuance, then playtest the settings just like you'd playtest the mechanics. That'll help us. :)

I'd like to think that I do exactly that. I've always been for religion and followed the settings in it, doing so made me realize what I brought forward here. Which I first brought forward in private not long ago .. so I knew the answer already. I'm accepting that answer. I just mentioned my opinion again here because I saw other people with that same opinion and wanted to show they aren't the only ones that noticed that.

Now I'll be quiet and go pray :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: saladasalad on January 22, 2008, 10:35:17 am
I chose Xiosia because the recent information on Her that has been introduced sounds interesting and I hadn't already introduced religion into my RP. Speaking of Xiosia... shouldn't that tower in the secret garden be in ruins? And where is the Ruqua tree?  I know, I know...  soon(tm). ;D
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: .:ZEN:. on January 22, 2008, 10:51:44 am
Laanx for roleplay... its good to have a place to pray to the almighty gods

But hey, Talad kicks ass =) we thank him for creating the game... along with all the other DEVS/GMs

A smiley balloon for Talad O--)
Fresh charm flowers for the alter of the laanx temple  :flowers:
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Xillix Queen of Fools on January 23, 2008, 06:15:46 pm
That is all we get?
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Zan on January 23, 2008, 06:23:06 pm
Yanno, I wonder .. who all voted for Talad because they want to suck up to the guy that started the creation of this game? :P
Title: Re: Deity Poll
Post by: Amarthame on January 24, 2008, 02:12:53 am
Hmm... I've got two characters, and they're both equally "main"ish charaters for me.

Glosame worships Laanx, but I haven't introduced that into my RPing yet... But I will.   :)

And Jita does not worship a god, and it's not just me copping out... She's got a dang good reason!  ;)

But I chose Laanx in the poll, because Glosame was my first character, and I foresee myself creating more Laanx-worshiping characters as time goes on.