PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Tearlach on March 24, 2003, 11:55:38 pm
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Hello everyone, I am currently doing a interview on the subject freedom, since I want different views of the subject I am using the internet as my tool.
I will post some questions below that I would want you to answer, I would prefer a well thought out reply over 50 yes/no replies. this are the questions:
1) What is freedom?
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
(This one is asking for a non-artificial restraint, for an example a law is an artificial restraint.)
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
This thread have been posted on another forum, if you want to read more about this subject you can clickhere (http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/starwars/Forum5/HTML/053617.html)
(If you would notice any grammatical or spelling errors please correct me. )
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1.) What is Freedom?
Freedom is the ability to live ones life as that individual chooses, for them to make their own decisions about what to do and what not to do, live where they wish to live, etc., without impeding on said freedom of another person.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Yes.
Example: If you were so \"free\" enough to go about and kill whoever you pleased, that would force other people to not be as free as you (because they\'re dead, scared, etc.). Therefore, a limitation must be set - that the general populus agrees with - on what is right and what is wrong. This is where morals, laws, and government come into play; all are a necessity to avoid anarchy and chaos.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes.
Forcing someone to another\'s will, doing things they do not wish to do, threatening them, brutalizing them, making decisions for them - these are all examples of having your freedoms removed. If all are done in concordance, then yes, all freedom can be removed, even the freedom of breathing if they choose to take your life.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Yes.
There is a thing as too much freedom when people begin to think rashly and are not considerate toward others. (Please see my statement in 2a about murdering rampages.)
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In my message I asked you to give a well thought out reply rather than the old yes/no thing as it don\'t give me the input I need.
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You edited your post when I was replying to it. :]
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yes, but I was just editing in the link.
Oh, and her is my disclaimer:
If you want your name to be in the final draft please write it under your post, if you want to be anonymous please say so.
I also reserve myself to shorten down your post in the final draft if necessary.
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Example: If you were so \"free\" enough to go about and kill whoever you pleased, that would force other people to not be as free as you (because they\'re dead, scared, etc.). Therefore, a limitation must be set - that the general populus agrees with - on what is right and what is wrong. This is where morals, laws, and government come into play; all are a necessity to avoid anarchy and chaos.
I must clarify question #2 I think, this is asking for a non artificial restraint, which you are giving a great example on when you are saying that one persons freedom may hinder other peoples freedom, but the other part of your answer are talking about a artificial constraint which belongs under #4, I should have clarified this in the question and I will edit it now to reflect this.
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1) What is freedom?
The ability to do anything you want/need to do.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Sure, you can jump 15 feet high (on earth) even if you want to.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes, but not likely, You\'d have to be in an elaborate restraint system to where you can\'t do anything you want.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Sure, Anarcy is Total freedom, Anarchy is also one of the stupidest ideas, ever.
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Well Dumb Woob why is anarchy the most stupid idea ever?
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Freedom is the ability to do what you want as long as what you want doesn\'t infringe on others\' ability to do what they want.
For example: You have the right to free speech in America, but you don\'t have the right to \"be heard\". You can\'t *make* people listen to what you have to say. The Dixie Chicks recently got a lesson in this. :-)
The \"Yelling Fire in a crowded theater\" is the classic example. You can yell Fire, but if you are putting others in danger by doing that then you are infringing on their freedom, which is verboten.
Murder seriously cramps the victim\'s ability to do what he wants later also. :-)
If you want to see anarchy in action, go to Africa and check out things like \"civil wars\" with 26 different sides and armies in one country, where everyone basically rapes and pillages whoever they want, where doctors treating Ebola victims are attacked for angering the gods at the instigation of the witch doctors, and where AIDS is now something like 40% of the entire population of the continent. If you like anarchy, just move there and good luck to you.
- Venge
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I am just trying to get more elaborate answers to certain questions, I am trying to not post my own answers to this thread so that it won\'t become biased, beside your answer to #1 is what most anarchists defines anarchy as. (just so you know)
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i guess i\'ll toss in my two cents (which are worth very little)....
1) What is freedom?
The chance to make your own judgements, thoughts, and opinions as you choose when you want to. essentially, being able to have conscious thought and being able to act upon them if rational and if they do not infringe on the freedom of others. (i.e. like kahlisi said, going around killing people is not considered \"rational\").
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
(This one is asking for a non-artificial restraint, for an example a law is an artificial restraint.)
Yes, there is a limit. There is a point where you cannot have full freedom. (i.e. some things are just plain impossible. to grow wings and fly, for example. running about trying to do this will result in one injuring or having adverse effects upon oneself and/or others )
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes and no. No, because it is not possible for a person to have all concious thought quashed and/or forced in a specific direction by another. Thus, a person can still make judgements, decisions, and opinions though not necessarily be able to act upon them fully. (being able to make judgments, decisions, and opinions was part of my definition of freedom). Yes, it is possible because bieng able to act on the decisions was also part of my definition. finally, people can\'t do ANY of this stuff if they\'re dead.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Yes. If you are infringing upon another person\'s freedom, then you have too much. Examples of this have been drawn up very well in the previous posts so there is no reason for me to make any more.
I don\'t see the point of putting our names on this thing (as they\'re just screen names, not our real names) but i\'d like to remain anonymous thankee very much.
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That one is if you want to have your real name in the final draft or your screen name or if you want it to read *anonymous*.
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No, because it is not possible for a person to have all concious thought quashed and/or forced in a specific direction by another
yeah there is: drugging, brainwashing, manipulating, hynotizing, etc.
In the future there may be even more powerful mind control. let us hope that does not come true.
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Originally posted by Monocle
No, because it is not possible for a person to have all concious thought quashed and/or forced in a specific direction by another
yeah there is: drugging, brainwashing, manipulating, hynotizing, etc.
In the future there may be even more powerful mind control. let us hope that does not come true.
yah, i know. but i\'ve heard (and i like to hope) that those methods do not COMPLETELY destroy all semblance of conscious free thought.
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i wouldn\'t know, i\'ve never tried them :)
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Originally posted by Dumb Woob
1) What is freedom?
The ability to do anything you want/need to do.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Sure, you can jump 15 feet high (on earth) even if you want to.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes, but not likely, You\'d have to be in an elaborate restraint system to where you can\'t do anything you want.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Sure, Anarcy is Total freedom, Anarchy is also one of the stupidest ideas, ever.
I dunno what i was smoking, here\'s what i should have written:
1) What is freedom?
The ability to do anything you want/need to do.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Sure, you can jump 15 feet high (on earth) even if you want to.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes, but not likely, You\'d have to be in an elaborate restraint system to where you can\'t do anything you want.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
No, like i said you won\'t be able to defy gravity (in the year 2003), but Anarchy is Total freedom allowing to do anything we are able to, Anarchy is also one of the stupidest ideas, ever. Anarchy wouldn\'t work, Say we made Rhode Island (Texans Like to rag on it cause its small, while we boast about how big we are) an Anarchy, People would flock there to do illegal stuff, Then Theoretical Person A would kill Theotical Person B for his stash of drugs/whatever. People would merely kill and steal what they needed until nothing was left and eventually in a base case-scenario a few waring organized Gangs would take control and protect people from other Gangs/Muggers/People bent on Random Violence in exchange for work or something. Somewhere should let the people that want anarchy for a little while so they can see how much it would suck.
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Maybe freedom is the ability to use whatever sig file image you want...no matter how ugly or stupid. ;-)
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*has realized either dumb woobs age or inteligence level*
since I\'m lazy, instead of answering all of the questions with my own ideas, i will exercise freedom of choice and instead pick and choose witch ideas from others already presented stand as a good representations of what I believe along with a mixture of my own responses.
a name will be cited at the bottom of the reponse if I have quoted someone (ie -bob).
1. Freedom is the ability to do what you want as long as what you want doesn\'t infringe on others\' ability to do what they want.
-veng
but I also think that in the future, humanity\'s perception of freedom will evolve.
We will find many more ways to be free, we will eventualy evolve into types of beings that are un inflected by the some what petty shit that we are consumed with at the moment.
2. Mental gain, is more important than physical;
once we as people realize this, there could not be a limit on our freedom, ever.
3.I figure that to inflict great Dispair, hate and ignorance on a person is to take all of his freedom.
4. The sky is the limit is what my mother told me when i was very little. I can remeber her words so vividly that I can replay the whole situation perfectly...She told me I could be anything I want...lord will\'n. You\'d never know how powerful it is to tell a child that...I\'d probable of commited suicide at eight if it werent for this... this...this hope. Hope is freedom. That is why you could never have to much freedom and nomatter what life throws at me i could never be inslaved.
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Originally posted by Vengeance
Maybe freedom is the ability to use whatever sig file image you want...no matter how ugly or stupid. ;-)
haha, thx for that comment, maybe i\'ll include you in the next atrocity ;-)
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This is how the desired information looks like for the moment, I will continue to monitor the thread and bump it when it needs bumping in a similiar way to this, feel free to add your take on this subject.
Kahlisi
1.) What is Freedom?
Freedom is the ability to live ones life as that individual chooses, for them to make their own decisions about what to do and what not to do, live where they wish to live, etc., without impeding on said freedom of another person.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Yes.
Example: If you were so \"free\" enough to go about and kill whoever you pleased, that would force other people to not be as free as you (because they\'re dead, scared, etc.). Therefore, a limitation must be set - that the general populus agrees with - on what is right and what is wrong. This is where morals, laws, and government come into play; all are a necessity to avoid anarchy and chaos.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes.
Forcing someone to another\'s will, doing things they do not wish to do, threatening them, brutalizing them, making decisions for them - these are all examples of having your freedoms removed. If all are done in concordance, then yes, all freedom can be removed, even the freedom of breathing if they choose to take your life.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Yes.
There is a thing as too much freedom when people begin to think rashly and are not considerate toward others. (Please see my statement in 2a about murdering rampages.)
Dumb Woob
1) What is freedom?
The ability to do anything you want/need to do.
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
Sure, you can jump 15 feet high (on earth) even if you want to.
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes, but not likely, You\'d have to be in an elaborate restraint system to where you can\'t do anything you want.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
No, like i said you won\'t be able to defy gravity (in the year 2003), but Anarchy is Total freedom allowing to do anything we are able to, Anarchy is also one of the stupidest ideas, ever. Anarchy wouldn\'t work, Say we made Rhode Island (Texans Like to rag on it cause its small, while we boast about how big we are) an Anarchy, People would flock there to do illegal stuff, Then Theoretical Person A would kill Theotical Person B for his stash of drugs/whatever. People would merely kill and steal what they needed until nothing was left and eventually in a base case-scenario a few waring organized Gangs would take control and protect people from other Gangs/Muggers/People bent on Random Violence in exchange for work or something. Somewhere should let the people that want anarchy for a little while so they can see how much it would suck.
Vengeance
Freedom is the ability to do what you want as long as what you want doesn\'t infringe on others\' ability to do what they want.
For example: You have the right to free speech in America, but you don\'t have the right to \"be heard\". You can\'t *make* people listen to what you have to say. The Dixie Chicks recently got a lesson in this. :-)
The \"Yelling Fire in a crowded theater\" is the classic example. You can yell Fire, but if you are putting others in danger by doing that then you are infringing on their freedom, which is verboten.
Murder seriously cramps the victim\'s ability to do what he wants later also. :-)
If you want to see anarchy in action, go to Africa and check out things like \"civil wars\" with 26 different sides and armies in one country, where everyone basically rapes and pillages whoever they want, where doctors treating Ebola victims are attacked for angering the gods at the instigation of the witch doctors, and where AIDS is now something like 40% of the entire population of the continent. If you like anarchy, just move there and good luck to you.
- Venge
Anonymous
1) What is freedom?
The chance to make your own judgements, thoughts, and opinions as you choose when you want to. essentially, being able to have conscious thought and being able to act upon them if rational and if they do not infringe on the freedom of others. (i.e. like kahlisi said, going around killing people is not considered \"rational\").
2a) Is there any limit on how free you can be?
(This one is asking for a non-artificial restraint, for an example a law is an artificial restraint.)
Yes, there is a limit. There is a point where you cannot have full freedom. (i.e. some things are just plain impossible. to grow wings and fly, for example. running about trying to do this will result in one injuring or having adverse effects upon oneself and/or others )
2b) Do you think it is possible to remove all your freedom?
Yes and no. No, because it is not possible for a person to have all concious thought quashed and/or forced in a specific direction by another. Thus, a person can still make judgements, decisions, and opinions though not necessarily be able to act upon them fully. (being able to make judgments, decisions, and opinions was part of my definition of freedom). Yes, it is possible because bieng able to act on the decisions was also part of my definition. finally, people can\'t do ANY of this stuff if they\'re dead.
3) Do you think that it is possible to have too much freedom?
Yes. If you are infringing upon another person\'s freedom, then you have too much. Examples of this have been drawn up very well in the previous posts so there is no reason for me to make any more.
cmhitman
since I\'m lazy, instead of answering all of the questions with my own ideas, i will exercise freedom of choice and instead pick and choose witch ideas from others already presented stand as a good representations of what I believe along with a mixture of my own responses.
a name will be cited at the bottom of the reponse if I have quoted someone (ie -bob).
1. Freedom is the ability to do what you want as long as what you want doesn\'t infringe on others\' ability to do what they want.
-veng
but I also think that in the future, humanity\'s perception of freedom will evolve.
We will find many more ways to be free, we will eventualy evolve into types of beings that are un inflected by the some what petty shit that we are consumed with at the moment.
2. Mental gain, is more important than physical;
once we as people realize this, there could not be a limit on our freedom, ever.
3.I figure that to inflict great Dispair, hate and ignorance on a person is to take all of his freedom.
4. The sky is the limit is what my mother told me when i was very little. I can remeber her words so vividly that I can replay the whole situation perfectly...She told me I could be anything I want...lord will\'n. You\'d never know how powerful it is to tell a child that...I\'d probable of commited suicide at eight if it werent for this... this...this hope. Hope is freedom. That is why you could never have to much freedom and nomatter what life throws at me i could never be inslaved.