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I thought we'd go for a little freshness and short term results, lads and ladies.
Please access the link below:
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31385.0
For those who don't read too close; there are two steps in each two phases in this challenge:
City of choice: Amdeneir
1st phase
2D
-City Maps
-Concept sketches for city buildings
2nd phase
3D
-Turning the citymap into a 3D-environment
-Modeling the city buildings
Team Members: rast, Baldur, Ramzes, Zweitholou, Scorpio, Nikodemus
All steps should be based on the description written in the "Planeshift Official City Design Contest"-thread!
Read the descriptions and begin on the first phase individually, then present your ideas in the thread where a selection among the members will take place.
PHASE 1 SUBMISSIONS [FINAL]
Representative images:
City:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2235/amdeneir034mc6.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2235/amdeneir034mc6.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.th.png) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.th.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.th.jpg) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.jpg) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.th.png) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.th.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.th.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.th.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.png)
Specific city structures:
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.th.png) (http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1576/amdeneir036os0.th.jpg) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1576/amdeneir036os0.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.th.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.jpg) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.th.png) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.th.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.png) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.th.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.jpg) (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7626/winchrenderup6.th.png) (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7626/winchrenderup6.png) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.th.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.jpg)
Plaza park
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5977/plazapark04qj7.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5977/plazapark04qj7.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.th.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.jpg)
Quarries:
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.jpg) (http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6883/rockcliffau4.th.png) (http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6883/rockcliffau4.png)
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Remember, You've only got 2 months for Phase 1 - Which means that the Deadline for submissions is 11:59pm March 30, 2008 GMT. It may sound like a lot of time, but it will fly.
We want to see what you want planeshift to look like!
:sorcerer:
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will there be a team adraax?
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*Finally finishes reading rules*
If there is a Team Adraax, count me in, but possibly only for phase 2 :) I'll have to try drawing some concepts again...its been ages...
Cheers for organising this Xillix and all
(Baldur - can you still take part - or are you a dev mate?)
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If there is a team Adraax, I would like to help, but probably only for phase 1. Should I post the ideas I come up with in this thread? So far I've sketched all three mines, a city layout, and a few points of interest for Amdeneir.
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Development is open to post and view and discuss.
Baldur and other prospects are permitted to participate.
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I stumbled on this project about 3 months ago. It looked wonderful, and I was sorry to see that it had gone somewhat quiet. I am VERY glad to see that it is getting a new lease on life. *SIGH* If only I could draw something other than slightly off-kilter grade school hearts ;)
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*Finally finishes reading rules*
If there is a Team Adraax, count me in, but possibly only for phase 2 :) I'll have to try drawing some concepts again...its been ages...
Cheers for organising this Xillix and all
(Baldur - can you still take part - or are you a dev mate?)
I might partake, schools stopping me though :) I'm helping to organize this for "Team Adraax".
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Hello. Here is a city layout I've been working on.
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8309/amdenier001ay6.jpg)
Key
A. Vigesimi's Tower
B. University of Amadenier
C. Plaza Park
D. Hospital of Talad
E. Magic Shop
F. Guard Barracks
G. The Parting Ways tavern
H. Landing Platforms (buildings)
I. Smithy
J. Burial Well
K. Warehouse
The buildings along the main road are for various crafts. Plain square buildings are typically Ylian, while more unusual shapes are Klyros.
Here are two building sketches:
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/1369/amdenier002bm1.jpg)
Any constructive criticism is welcome and needed! :)
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Very nice, we need to outline who the team is. Good work all. You can also take things from your established works for adraax and move them here. Rast, maybe you should salvage what you can.
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Nice but the tower is strange ( especially proportions). This is my concept of tower:
(http://images26.fotosik.pl/151/b76e89317923dc40.jpg) (http://www.fotosik.pl)
My model with beta textures.
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Hey all.
@Baldur
Ok - I know what you mean - i got tons of school work to do at the mo as well - I'll probs be able to squeze in some time to do this though :) It'd be awesome to have you helping, but no worries if you can't
@Ramzes
Slow down :) We aren't on the 3D part of the project yet - that's phase 2 - I guess we might be able to use 3D models as concepts, but i dunno whether they'll be excepted. Keep practising though mate :)
@xillix
Yeah - I might dig through the main thread Soon(tm) and see what i can grab
Zweitholou, that map looks awesome - and the buildings.
I had a go at the university too - its a big size so I've linked to it:
http://img109.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/02/01/universityofamnedeir-49df5ktpq.jpeg (http://img109.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2008/02/01/universityofamnedeir-49df5ktpq.jpeg)
It isn't finished yet - was purely a test to see whether i can draw buildings =/ - please give feedback
In terms of Team Adraax: I'm happy to do it. Zweitholou - you defs wanna join in? Anyone else?
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Zweitholou, I gotta say, it looks like you've put a lot of effort into it. Looks organized, looks achievable. You may want to consider making the stone quarries bigger. Don't think of them like the way mines are set up now (small section of rock where you pull ore from.) We're talking pulling out blocks of stone used for buildings. But yeah, I'd say you're in good contention right now. :)
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Hey i'd be quite interested in joining the team, im a conceptual artist with a keen interest in gaming ect. I'm a good friend of Rast IRL and he's the guy who told me about this project. I'll post some art in a sec to show what i can do, but i'm havign trouble tracking down my portfolio at the moment.
Managed to get one uploaded, tell me what you think, it's just some line art i did.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2qk402r.jpg
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Looks awesome scorpio :)
@Jeraphon
I think the dots on Zweitholou's map are just to represent where the mines could be, not mine shafts... ;)
Done some more on the university concept (i shrunk it so it lost some of the quality - i'll post a link to the bigger one later):
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/276/universityofamdeneir3th4.png)
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Thank you.
I would definitely like to join the team.
@Rast Precisely, I was just indicating that if you leave that gate and follow a long, winding road, you will eventually reach the mines. I have concepts below. Also, rast, your building looks great. :thumbup: The perspective is well depicted and the design is interesting. The vine-like columns seem more Elven than Klyron, but that would be simple to change.
@Scorpio The sketch looks great. Keep up the good work! A good subject matter to work on would be some architectural illustrations or some panoramic views of the city.
Here are the mines and some old pictures I thought I would revisit.
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6586/amdenier003dc6.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2834/amdenier004qg2.jpg)
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6831/amdenier005vr8.jpg)
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2506/portkydrilsmallfb9.jpg)
Port Kydril
Main port which handles goods transported by sea, land, and air.
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8671/joelkinetavernsmallkm7.jpg)
Joelkine Tavern
A warm building with a rich atmosphere. Favorite place of fishermen, sailors, and travelers to rest and share stories.
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1693/klyrosbuildingthirdsmaldl6.jpg)
Building 1
Just an idea...
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/535/klyrosbuildingfourthsmabx1.jpg)
Building 3
Another idea...
More pictures can be found at http://www.freewebs.com/zweitholou/adraaxklyrosproject.htm (http://www.freewebs.com/zweitholou/adraaxklyrosproject.htm).
If anyone has any ideas for subject matter for me to sketch let me know.
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Ok, so we've already got alot of buildings/structure concepts but only one city map-concept :)
Could all who have so far posted buildings(and vegetables) attempt to make a city map. Everyone's special style would present us with varieties we can choose from. Taking references from old city plans isn't forbidden, just try to stay original, adding your own style and ideas to the mix :)
Thank you.
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Hah, thought i might be the guy who is known as 'the guy posts vegetables', I'm working today, but i'll get on to doing some map work tonight, unfortunately i 'm not in the country during next week, so i'll try and update before i leave tomorrow and i'll be back after that, thanks guys.
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Is the 3 km limit for the city within the walls only, or for the surrounding landscape as well? Also, would the quarries be included in this or not? I came to an approx. measurement of 300 m for the diameter of the walled city based on reasonable building sizes. This makes me think that the 3 km limit would be for city and surroundings, quarries as well.
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Hey all - been pretty busy this weekend so haven't been able to do much X-/
@Baldur
I think that's a good plan mate. If i could draw maps. I'll give it a go though. Can't guarantee anything though ;)
@Zweitholou
Yeah, I think you're right. 3km is a bit big for an ingame city. The lag would be tromendous...
Has anyone else noticed the lack of other teams? Come on guys! Everyone's always moaning about not being able to stick fan art in game :P Now's your chance!
Cheers all, Rast
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http://www.gryc.ws/autorealm.htm <-- good OS map editor for conceptual works, only good on some platforms though. If you dl it then go to the webring you can find many more free icons etc.
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Xillix, I'd say the team consists of Zweitholou, Rast, Scorpio, Ramzes, Jyoshka(?) and I, yes?
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@xillix
Cheers - i'm trying it out now - it's pretty good for basics
@Baldur
I think that's it mate. Wanna start a team list on the first post? You PMed everyone? Me+scorpio are definate (i just asked him). I guess you + Zweitholou are too.
Ramzes? Jyoshka? :)
Starting on a map now :)
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Things are looking good, but please remember not to confuse Adraax with Amdeneir. While some things from Adraax might be usable in Amdeneir, some things are non-canonical. (For example, there are no references to airships in PS, and likely they won't exist, so any airports will be for pterosaurs and megaras only, not airships.) I'm not saying you can't take Adraax things, but be vigilant to stick within the settings.
Keep up the good work!
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Me too but only for 3D phase.
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Xillix, I'd say the team consists of Zweitholou, Rast, Scorpio, Ramzes, Jyoshka(?) and I, yes?
Baldur, once you've finalized your team - just drop us an e-mail at PlaneShift.CityContest@gmail.com
2.1.2 Establishment of Teams
Teams are to be established at the beginning of the contest. The Idea here is that these cities are too large for one individual to create. Each team will consist of up to 6 people; exceptions can be made on a case by case basis for larger teams. Teams need not be an established guild or organization. No member of any team may be designated WTB or higher within the PlaneShift dev team hierarchy. Each team must choose a name. The name of the team, a list of names, email addresses, and the selected city must be sent to the official e-mail address with the subject "city contest team". Examples of the names of teams the PlaneShift team might like to see are “Team Adraax”, “Team Dark Empire”, “Team Vaalnor” etc.
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http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31435.msg361345#msg361345
It seems we've got some competition :)
All who are able to, get on #planeshift-citycontest and stay as long as you can.
Eriroley, I'll send the mail as soon as I've rounded them all up :)
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Yes! We have competition :D But they are doing a different city to us I think.
I'm on the irc - no one else is though =/
The map is getting there, but slowly...
cheers,
Rast
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I hadn't noticed it, but our team's chosen Amdenier as their city as they've apparently already started on it :)
Amdenier it is :)
Remember that the Klyros buildings aren't organic by default if we follow Inca's original concepts of the Klyron architecture. If we want to get this ingame we shouldn't sway too far from it.
The base in Klyron architecture would be cabin-like buildings with fischscale ceilings -or similar- and the characteristic "wing" constructions. As they have a quarry which they use quite to an extent the buildings would probably be stone buildings. Picturesque buildings with the basic ideas of Klyron architecture included.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/Klyros_Ground_Farm.jpg)
How are you coming along with those citymaps?
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Ok - here's the map so far:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7939/amdeneirmap02lp5.th.png) (http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amdeneirmap02lp5.png)
I've placed 2 of the quarries near the city walls. Also, I think i've inverted where the different quarters were oriigionally intended be ;) Once its finished I'll add a proper key :)
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Have you thought about making actual streets flat? Stairs here and there aren't a bad idea, but if on the towns main road there are stairs, this is going to be problematic for carts and similiar. Though i don't know if there will be carts in Yliakum.
Just a thought, great work with all the drawings.
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A little tip when designing the layout. The complexity (polycount) and size of the city doesn't really matter. What matters is how well it's split up and how much can be viewed on screen at any one time. Games which have some beautiful cities are designed carefully so that you don't have too much in view (which would bring down performance), and so that you don't have too much loaded in memory.
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@Jeraphon
I understand about the airships and other aspects as well. I did not mean that the port would be used. I meant for it to serve as an architectural reference to a previous style I had presented.
@Baldur
I agree that the buildings should not be as organic as some I have drawn. Also, I agree that we should include architectural elements from Inca's picture, while using other ideas as well. I think the houses should be lofty and arcing while also fluid and practical, reflecting the Klyros' nature.
@rast
The map looks good thus far! I am a little confused by some of the shapes, but no doubt the key will help me to understand. Keep up the good work.
@Nikodemus
I didn't include stairs for that very reason.
@Xordan
I built a rough model in sketch up to get a feel for the city and see what it looks like from within. I seems fairly cozy and interesting so far. Fences would be strategically placed between buildings to separate areas and keep less in view. The concave curving outside walls help create a sense of intrigue as one must peer around them to see more. However, their presence can be logically explained. A concave curve in the wall would allow defenders to attack enemies along the wall with greater ease.
Here is an attempt at the surroundings of the city. The lowest areas are near water, while the highest are near the edges of the map.
(http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6750/amdenier006qd1.jpg)
Also, if the sectors apply only to the area within the walled city, here are the divisions into three major sectors.
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2281/amdeniersectorsmajoruh3.jpg)
If the sectors apply to the surroundings, then the 4 major sectors would be 1 for each quarry and their road to it, and another for the walled city and the land immediately surrounding it. Then the sectors in the map above would be minor sectors.
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I meant rast plan, your's is just great.
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This may seem to be :offtopic: but please remember to e-mail planeshift.citycontest the official Team Adraax roster
:sorcerer:
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Zweitholou: That looks great :)
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This may seem to be :offtopic: but please remember to e-mail planeshift.citycontest the official Team Adraax roster
:sorcerer:
Already done.
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Cheers for the pointers :) Map drawing isn't my strong point, as is noticeable :-\
I would be perfectly happy to go with Zweitholou's map, but it depends on whether we need to get a range of ideas. Perhaps we could move 1 or 2 of the quarries in so that they fit in the curves of the outer wall (if you see what i mean). Kinda like i attempted to do on my map.
Cheers all,
Rast
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Let's go with Zweitholou's map and focus on giving pointers and feedback to how it can be improved or changed :) My personal opinion is the city didn't grow into what it is today directly but grew from the business/housing Lower Quarter then built the Upper Quarter and Landing Platforms as the city became more specialized, like this:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/District.png)
Some pointers to how I see the city
-Before the others were built the Lower Quarter had had some time to grow. As well as being the oldest part it is also the most permanently populated part because of it's housing. Due to the commerce in the Lower Quarter district it is tightly knit up to the Landing Platforms which it is dependant upon for import and export of trading products.
-Due to the housing being held in most parts of the Lower Quarter, the Upper Quarter is as well dependant on the Lower Quarter, but not as much linked as the Lower Quarter and Landing Platforms are due to the Upper Quarter's lack of commerce.
The Upper Quarter's also only loosely connected to the Landing Platforms because of the rising crime rate in the district which the Upper Quarter does not want to get infected by.
-Due to the current situation in the Landing Platforms the Upper Quarters have built reinforced walls facing the district. The Lower Quarter have similar walls towards the Landing Platforms but not as strong due to echonomical differences in the Upper- and Lower Quarter and because of the Lower Quarter's vaster stretch of walls.
I'd say either the roads from the Quarries all lead into the Landing Platforms or into the Lower Quarter.
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Thanks for the pointers. :) As it happens, I feel quite the contrary. ::) The oldest section would be upper district. As I understood:
A2.4 Interior
Lower quarter: The lower quarter is the place where most of the city's business is conducted. In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood. Every Klyros building has several stories; a small terrace on each serves as an alternative entrance for those that arrive through the air. One or two rectangular towers, which are used as an exit, are situated on each of the Klyros buildings. These towers enable Klyros to reach any location within the lower quarter with ease. The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms. Along these roads, several crafters have set up their shops. The lower quarter offers a wide selection of crafters, including stonemasons, woodcutters, bowyers, carpenters, and engineers. In the lower quarter, in the southwest corner, next to the main road, there is a small hospital run by followers of Talad.
Upper quarter: The upper quarter is where the city's government and the social elite of Amdeneir reside. All of the buildings in the upper quarter are typically Klyros, as only few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building. [more klyros buildings therefore older part of city?] It has no connection to the landing platforms, only a single gate to the lower quarter. In the middle of the quarter, at the end of the road connecting the upper quarter to the lower quarter, there is a larger plaza. In the middle of the plaza, there is a park filled with plants and trees from both the Dome and the Barn. At the north end of the plaza, there is the vigesimi's tower. At the sides of the plaza, clockwise from the vigesimi's tower, there is the university. Small roads lead away from the plaza. There is a market in the plaza, around the park, where booths sell various items.
Landing platforms: The landing platforms are the trading center of Amdeneir. Most of the goods imported into Amdeneir arrive through the air. The landing platforms are the least secure area of Amdeneir as well. The huge storehouses of several trading companies attract thieves. The landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries. On the south end of the quarter are many small shacks owned by day labourers and those that can not afford other housing. These shacks have been the cause of trouble between the local social elite and the government, as they fear for their safety, especially due to the easy outbreak of disease in the dense housing area. Like in the upper quarter, a market is held on the small plaza of the landing platforms quarter. Stables for flying creatures can be found right besides the landing platforms. A large market hall is situated next to the quarter's plaza. Inside, several merchants set up their business and sell their goods on a daily basis.
The three major roads, especially the main road and the landing platforms road, are filled with caravans transporting goods. Even the airspace of the roads is filled by Klyros gliding to their destination. Next to the gates connecting the quarters, are two holes on each side allowing air traffic.
It seems that the upper district contains the older, klyros houses. The sense of arrogant nobility that is held by some upper district dwellers may have developed because:
a) upper district is older
b) upper district dwellers have lived there longer, securing better jobs and having more time to move up in society
c) heightened crime in landing platforms due to occasionally hard life
Also, the oldest quarry is wetsoil, which is (on my map) connected to upper. Originally, stone from quarries would have been used to build the city itself before trade became the major focus. Then, as more jobs opened up for mining and trade, individuals with less money would move in seeking better job and better life. Upon moving in, they wouldn't have enough money to buy a proper house and would resort to a smaller abode amid the trading facilities (smaller commute too ;)) Upper would be more specialized because it has had more time to specialize. Some buildings that have specific purposes now may not have been built for their present purpose. For example, the university foundation could have been built as a warehouse, only to burn down later. Since the city had changed, the old warehouse remains were turned into a university because one was needed and this spot was ideally located. The crafting shops would have already been located outside the walls because the nobles and government officials wanted to make sure their land was protected first, and they had the money so they got their way. Later, as crafters advanced in proficiency and status, they decided to wall off their portion of the city. However, they still did not provide funding for a wall around the landing platforms. Later, this issue was tackled by the government, seeking economic reform for it's citizens.
I may be wrong, but is it not true that the "down town" area is generally the oldest part of the city?
@rast- the mines can certainly change, as I designated them on a whim. :D However, I don't think Rockcliff or Blackhole should be too near the city. Otherwise, they would have been discovered earlier. However, Wetsoil might be a logical candidate to be nearer to the city (just not too close :sweatdrop:). One reason against it being too close is that it could poison the water supply under the city with ores and other mine related chemicals. Also, a big hole in the ground next to the city could prove a disadvantage in a battle (hiding place), as well as render the wall unsound.
A possible cultural element of the city shape-
If you turn it so that the main road is vertical, with the Blackhole entrance on top, it looks somewhat like a fish. :P
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I totally didn't know any of this was in the description :)
A2.4 Interior
Lower quarter: The lower quarter is the place where most of the city's business is conducted. In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood. Every Klyros building has several stories; a small terrace on each serves as an alternative entrance for those that arrive through the air. One or two rectangular towers, which are used as an exit, are situated on each of the Klyros buildings. These towers enable Klyros to reach any location within the lower quarter with ease. The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms. Along these roads, several crafters have set up their shops. The lower quarter offers a wide selection of crafters, including stonemasons, woodcutters, bowyers, carpenters, and engineers. In the lower quarter, in the southwest corner, next to the main road, there is a small hospital run by followers of Talad.
Upper quarter: The upper quarter is where the city's government and the social elite of Amdeneir reside. All of the buildings in the upper quarter are typically Klyros, as only few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building. [more klyros buildings therefore older part of city?] It has no connection to the landing platforms, only a single gate to the lower quarter. In the middle of the quarter, at the end of the road connecting the upper quarter to the lower quarter, there is a larger plaza. In the middle of the plaza, there is a park filled with plants and trees from both the Dome and the Barn. At the north end of the plaza, there is the vigesimi's tower. At the sides of the plaza, clockwise from the vigesimi's tower, there is the university. Small roads lead away from the plaza. There is a market in the plaza, around the park, where booths sell various items.
Landing platforms: The landing platforms are the trading center of Amdeneir. Most of the goods imported into Amdeneir arrive through the air. The landing platforms are the least secure area of Amdeneir as well. The huge storehouses of several trading companies attract thieves. The landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries. On the south end of the quarter are many small shacks owned by day labourers and those that can not afford other housing. These shacks have been the cause of trouble between the local social elite and the government, as they fear for their safety, especially due to the easy outbreak of disease in the dense housing area. Like in the upper quarter, a market is held on the small plaza of the landing platforms quarter. Stables for flying creatures can be found right besides the landing platforms. A large market hall is situated next to the quarter's plaza. Inside, several merchants set up their business and sell their goods on a daily basis.
The three major roads, especially the main road and the landing platforms road, are filled with caravans transporting goods. Even the airspace of the roads is filled by Klyros gliding to their destination. Next to the gates connecting the quarters, are two holes on each side allowing air traffic.
As a counterfeit I'm quite adamant:
a)That text doesn't give any pointer to which part of the city that's older. It only states that the Klyros buildings who were once in the Lower Quarter were torn down,mayhaps, when more and more Ylian traders challenged the Klyros trading monopoly(as Amdeneir is a trading town much is centered around trading).
b) The Klyros may never have been challenged to make room for other races in the upper district and have therefore never been forced to tear down their buildings.
c) I'm not against you on that :)
I'd say the landing Platforms were manufactured just to be able to meet the demand on import and export. Like a harbour connected to a coast city. Harbours had quite a high crime rate in Medieval times as well.
Edit: Pondering on harbour cities. The Landing Platforms could've been built at the same time as trading was put to action, fairly early that is. The parts could've been intertwined in the earlier stages before they both specialized in their own ways.
As the city grew richer it's importance grew larger. That could've been the reason to why the region's centre of power(Upper Quarter with the Vigesimi-dome) was established.
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Great progress, keep it up all. :thumbup:
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I hope I didn't sound rude or arrogant. :( Confidence was my intention.
a) I meant that I saw no clear explanation, and thought that my version of the history was best supported by the text. :)
b) I hadn't thought of that... I suppose I viewed the older (in my opinion), higher class upper district property as more desirable. That assumption would have led me to expect challenges. Not to mention that
only [a] few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building.
, implying that some foreigners did have a chance and succeeded.
c) \\o//
Also, what importance will the decision on which part is oldest have for the design? I'm sure there is a good reason that I just haven't thought of yet. ;)
Here are some new concept sketches of buildings. Their foundations should match those on the map.
(http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4913/amdenier007wn7.jpg)
The arrows on the tavern indicate entrances and exits.
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Wow - awesome ideas guys - sorry i haven't made many sugestions for a couple of days. I'll make a proper post tomorrow having read through all this.
I'll kick scorpio back into action when i next see him too ;)
Zweitholou, those pics look great :)
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Sometimes you did sound arrogant, but you did quite well :)
I hope I didn't sound rude or arrogant. :( Confidence was my intention.
a) I meant that I saw no clear explanation, and thought that my version of the history was best supported by the text. :)
b) I hadn't thought of that... I suppose I viewed the older (in my opinion), higher class upper district property as more desirable. That assumption would have led me to expect challenges. Not to mention that
only [a] few foreigners had the chance to purchase a building.
, implying that some foreigners did have a chance and succeeded.
c) \\o//
Also, what importance will the decision on which part is oldest have for the design? I'm sure there is a good reason that I just haven't thought of yet. ;)
The growing rate of mercantile cities made a plan almost impossible to be pushed through. I know merchantile cities often grew faster than other cities because of the money flowing in which also attracted more inhabitants. Medieval towns often grew in a circular or elliptical pattern outwards. Your town map looks way too planned in advance. If we come to a conclusion which part is the oldest we can track the city's growing pattern and make it look more natural.
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I can't scetch.
I ben thinking a bit on your discussion on the shape of town as it develops over time.
I came to a conclussion that it could have shape as Zweitholou projected if the topography made it to develop into these directions, though with the map he provided it doesn't make much sense:
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9338/rendervg7.png)
It would make sense, if it looked like this:
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/759/render2ng2.png)
Added some river by the way. Because, AFAIK Kloros can't live without water. Maybe i just remember wrong. But if so, they would rise a city definetly near a big water source, like a river. Btw, i made the river with total disrespect to the topography Zweitholou drew :detective:
EDIT: and unfortunately i did it before reading the city description ;D So um, it just looks pretty, nothing more, i gues.
The first city was only on one side, but not every race can swim well, and carts are definetly bad at floating on the river, so a bridge was built to a road, which goes from SW to NE. The road, which is the main street in the city as Zweitholou drew it on the blue area. This explains why it is so straight.
I think i will try helping with all this a bit or more since now if you don't mind.
Btw, you made IRC room already?
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#planeshift-citycontest < The official channel on the IRC Freenode server.
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Yeah, but a channel for one team only. It must be a mess if members of two different teams wan't to discuss at the same time. Of course one team can wait, but i know sometimes there is just no time.
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We'll address that problem once the chat gets that filled. As of now we're not in need of another chat. 3 to 5 access the chat, 1 to 2 are part of a team.
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Nikodemus:
I knew this would happen sooner or later. Everyone wants to add a river. Sadly, we must ask that the teams refrain from changing the topography or terrain in major ways, because it would affect other things besides that which you're designing (most especially, nearby towns.) If you put a river through Amdeneir, all of a sudden we have to tell the Delving team "Oh by the way, there's now a river close to you. Account for it." Not an ideal situation.
Please note from the documents you were given:
Each house, except in the landing platforms, has a connection to the large cave that acts as the city's water supply. The landing platforms are supplied through several wells.
Thanks for your co-operation.
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@Baldur
Again, I'm terribly sorry if I sounded arrogant. :'( I can't stand arrogance, and that was never my intent. I spent a lot of time on all of this and a bit of pride apparently developed. :whistling: I will humble myself... :surrender:
But enough of that. After reexamining some preliminary sketches which I didn't post, I realized the way I had qualified the shape. I forgot to refer back when I did the topography. Originally, I had high cliff walls (or at least unsuitable terrain for building) near the upper district that would have prevented expansion to the northwest. Perhaps, the landing districts stopped where they did because of a foreign goverment reason. Let me explain. Suppose the town of Amdenier was established as a mining colony, of sorts, for Klyros. This would mean that another government would control the city from afar. While simple matters of judgment would be left to the colonists' government, the larger doctrines and laws would be issued by the distant governing body. Well, it is a known fact that Klyros tend to be stubborn and *somewhat* arrogant, so it will come as no surprise that the colonists got comfortable with their power and wanted more.
The founding government saw this attitude as dangerous and sent reenforcement troops to stifle any uprisings. The colonists rebelled and were crushed. To punish them, walls were built around the landing platforms so that the growth of the city would be slowed. Much later, after long years of political turmoil, the town broke free of the founding government. However, the city had grown to fit the wall well, and, after it saved them from some attack or other, they decided to keep it up for protection. Some small houses still appeared around the city where possible, but life was dangerous for the pioneers, and most stayed in the city limits. Small things have changed through the years, but the basic layout remains the same.
Feel free to point out any errors I made and I will try to answer them effectively.
@Nikodemus
Glad to have your help!
I've not downloaded the IRC and may not get a chance to. If I do, I'll get on the channel.
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I've not downloaded the IRC and may not get a chance to. If I do, I'll get on the channel.
try instead http://www.mibbit.com/
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Thanks. I'm on.
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Yeah, see the EDIT i made before.
I made river first and then reed the whole description of the city (http://hydlaa.com/smf/Smileys/custom1/sorcerer.gif)
The image is still a reference for the hills that made the city the shape Zweitholou projected. Of course it may be a cliff as well. Of the old Dwarven quarry maybe?
If there was a river, the local quarries, which reach so deep, would probably have huge problems with leaking water. Also the undercity caves would most likely be submerged... although it should make Klyros happy, to have water right away, 1-5 meters under their houses.
I would like to make few points on some of the city description details.
The wall, 3m wide and 7 high if i remember right... Thats a huge wall, explains why the quarries are so big.... But they must have been building them over 300 years or something, meaning that the newest city part is 300 years old at least and since then nothing changed :o.
I propose that 2m wide and 4m tall wall was only around the upper quarter and the rest of the city have 0,5-1m wide, 2m tall wall with wooden scaffold where the wall is 0,5m. Is it acceptable in any way?
The Rockcliff quarry dome.
with 500m diameter? :o The only way how i see it, is to project it like bridges, Brooklyn Bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Bridge) its longets span is nearly 500m and the human built it in 1883 year. If you really want it, I'd say it is the biggest child of the Xacha enginery i have ever heard.
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@Nikodemus I agree but I didn't think we had a choice.
After some quick research I found that the world's largest dome is the O2. It is only 365.0 meters and was built in 1999.
It is not glass and is supported by steel cables.
Yes, the wall is thick, especially for a wall in a Klyros town, unless other races helped built it. As for the no change, fires and other natural disasters destroy property and some old buildings are demolished to make room for new ones.
They would have leaks. Blackhole quarry is filled with water at the bottom and supplies the city's aquifer with water.
There could alternately be marshy ground due to high water table that stopped the city from extending. Or this and cliffs. Marshes would fit well with Klyros, I think.
Sorry if it's confusing that I responded backwards. ???
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look, i made a scetch, can you believe it? ;P
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9751/corridorscetchut4.png)
Does it look like a city underground corridor klyros style? or not?
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I think it does. :)
Perhaps drainage troughs could be added to the bottom edges of the tunnels because of all the water. Also, maybe for decoration the walls could shimmer or flow like water (shiny preference of Klyros and decorative magic of Klyros). Then again, that would be hard to do I suppose. It depends if the tunnel is highly trafficked. Tunnels in constant use, I think, would be more decorative.
It looks good. :thumbup:
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May have to agree with Zweitholou and you've done an excellent job on creating that tunnel! Well executed highlighting!
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*Rast groans*
I really haven't been keeping as up to date with this as i should have been - I've been really busy over the last couple of days but should be around a bit more now (hopefully)... :)
yeah - well done Nikodemus - it looks awesome :)
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This is the rockcliff dome plan. I was thinking that each window will be a 2m edge triangle and if so, how many of these the dome has to consist. Well, in fact i counted only edges of windows along circumferences of two different spheres, or rather its top parts.
I think for PI/6*r the results are best.
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3016/rockcliffdomedrawingez2.png)
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I have been wondering, on 3D design and what will happen when you walk by the main road... The more faces you see at once, the lower the FPS.
If the road was to be straight, you will see all the buildings from one gate to another, that's not good. So i propose to curve the road.
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7855/amdeniersectorsmajoruh3wp7.th.png) (http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7855/amdeniersectorsmajoruh3wp7.png)
Looking at the plan, it is really stunning how many different buildings will have to be done.
And there needs to be another plan for the underground corridors, some water - underground lakes and streams.
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Along with Niko's Ideas I'd say we need to plan the city in a rectangular or circular growth pattern with the oldest buildings in a corner or an arc(don't ask me why, cities grow that way).
Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer. I'll try to whip together a map if I can but the one I rely most on is for Zweitholou to absorb the feedback and make us another map.
Check up on some medieval building references and attempt to modify them in the Klyran fashion, that's what I would do :)
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oww, looks like irc doesn't like you, Baldur.
This is how i see the city grownth from Zweitholou map
The circular pattern is present in the upper quarter. The city founders got richer and didn't think like moving somewhere else, while their houses can't be moved. At this time some wall was present already and the buildings within it was taking more and more free space. Poorer people were forced outside the walls and so they started to build their houses there.
At this time the old upper quarter had two gates. The top one, with road going somewhere up. The bottom gate for a change had short road joining with the old pre-city road, which was going from bottom to top (it was going that way, because there was a long cliff at the right).
So those poorer people forced outside the city gates started to build exactly there, along the roads. The lower quarter started to form and it wasn't going circular from the city gate, but it was growing around the first existing roads. And later They started to build city walls arounbd the lowerquarter. The pre-city road was called the MAIN ROAD.
Where is there the room for Landing Platforms?
They were present probably in the upper and lower quarters, but as the time passed, they were razed and moved away. Or they wasnt present in the city at all, but they were directly near the quarries and later on when the upper and lower quarters formed, they were moved to the third forming city part, when lower querter filled with buildings and again, poorer people was forced outside the walls.
If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.
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Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer.
Keep in mind that the klyroses would have banded together when they first arrived in Yliakum. In that case, it actually is more likely that they planned the city from the start as opposed to saying "Well now that we're here, let's make money."
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Could we all agree with the city developing from a merchant village? The other option would be financing, planning from the start, which is less probable and much rarer.
Keep in mind that the klyroses would have banded together when they first arrived in Yliakum. In that case, it actually is more likely that they planned the city from the start as opposed to saying "Well now that we're here, let's make money."
Another scenario could be that the Klyros simply settled down and through the quarry started trading minerals with the surrounding races , but I see you point Jeraphon.
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Sorry I've been quiet for a while. The workload at school has picked up a bit and I've also been busy outside of school.
@Nikodemus
I agree that the main road should bend as you demonstrated, and I think such a bend would have several benefits.
Also, you described my train of thought very well. However, I am a little confused by the last bit. If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.
Do you mean to say that if that or a similar idea is not what I had in place to guide me, then I should devise a history? I did have a history similar to what you described.
@Baldur
I understand what you mean by the city growth, and I see that my map is illogical in places. I am sorry I was so unyeilding. I will revise the map to incorporate more logical growth and a bending main road. I did some research on medieval town layouts not long ago and I will continue to use them as reference material.
Is it possible that we could combine planned and grown in the layout? Perhaps the Klyros came to the area which fit their needs and was rich in resources and decided to make a town, primarily the upper district and the beginnings of the lower district without a wall yet. As the trade boomed the city grew outwards, but only in one direction because the other direction was blocked off by cliffs. The landing platforms were built to centralize the center for exports and imports, as well as to house lower class and poorer workers outside the lower quarter walls.
Again, I will revise the city plan to reflect the changes we have made. :thumbup:
edit: How's this?
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2279/amdenierrevisionff0.jpg)
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Oh FFS.
my psp just exploded and i have @#$^ of what i did, a staged city grownth. with topography.
I just fix what i think is wronh with your.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9459/amdeniermapsz6.png)
If I were Zweitholou, i wouldn't know what to draw without such a plan or different plan, which would make this one completly unlogical and proven that completly different one is needed.
Do you mean to say that if that or a similar idea is not what I had in place to guide me, then I should devise a history? I did have a history similar to what you described.
This was more directed to Baldur, to provide more explanations how the city should look like. But it is me, looks like you know more than me.
Though, look at image i made.
I have put the cliffs at right. Why?
Coz upper quarted could have been build at a small hill by the main road. And people expanded in that direction. Not because they couldn't in the other as there were cliffs, but because the main road was a better commicational site. So there is no reason to put the cliffs as you did it. (Personally, i would like to see the terrain not very hilly, just so the city looks better)
Instead, i see cliffs at the right side. The exact reason why the landing platforms wall is so unregular and why there are no gates to outside. Instead people have to transport stone from quaries first to lower quarters and then pass through another gate.
* See i made the wall between these two more smooth, because i think it is how the wall would look like after they built it around lower quarters.
* I Added landing platform road. because the city description say there is one and it makes sense, so it takes the shortest path where from the stone is transported.
* I modified all city gates. From military PoV, it is easier to defend a gates situated this way. Why would they build it the way you drew it? Seriously, i'm not expert.
wow, i so hate when psp explode.
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I notice you've made an updated city map with a marsh and cliffs. I quote myself from less than a week ago:
Sadly, we must ask that the teams refrain from changing the topography or terrain in major ways, because it would affect other things besides that which you're designing (most especially, nearby towns.)
To re-iterate:
NO NEW TOPOGRAPHY OR TERRAIN, PLEASE. No new rivers. No new marshes. No new cliffs. No new beaches. No tundra. No deserts. Please. We know you're trying to be creative, but we must ask that you hold to this rule.
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Here is the walls and roads part of the revised map.
(http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2615/amdenier008da4.jpg)
Let me know what is wrong so I can fix it. Use the map below for reference.
Hello. Here is a city layout I've been working on.
(http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/8309/amdenier001ay6.jpg)
Key
A. Vigesimi's Tower
B. University of Amadenier
C. Plaza Park
D. Hospital of Talad
E. Magic Shop
F. Guard Barracks
G. The Parting Ways tavern
H. Landing Platforms (buildings)
I. Smithy
J. Burial Well
K. Warehouse
The buildings along the main road are for various crafts. Plain square buildings are typically Ylian, while more unusual shapes are Klyros.
@Jeraphon
I'm sorry. I overlooked that and will be careful to avoid it next time. :whistling:
@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd. Sorry about your PSP. :(
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edit, plz delete this post o.o
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Jeraphon, true, "NO NEW TOPOGRAPHY OR TERRAIN" But i think we have come to a moment, we need to plan something. See that the city description and surroundings (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31385.0) doesn't describe at all any hills, cliffs or other formations.
I don' tknow how others, but i would be happy to have the landscape mostly flat, with exceptions: As on the height map image, i added a cliff - or more like half km (or something) long canyon on the right side of Zweitholous city plan. (like 5-7m deep or something) This is to explain why Landing Platforms wall isn't round, but unregular.
Later on we will be wanting to layout all quarries and plan topography of the area.
I'm guessing that the city description and surroundings (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31385.0) say nothing on topography, because it is supposed to be very flat, but if it isn't, maybe allow us to shape it by ourselves. Can you?
We have 3 km2 to plan and formations like 0,5km long canyons will start and end within it.
Current PS landscapes are very much hilly.
Zweitholou, you didn't include all elements i proposed and you didn't tell why, so i don't know. Though my proposed changes may change a bit or a lot depending from what Jeraphon will answer now.
oh gw with: shape of walls around city gates (you may keep the previous small squares at city gates base)
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I suggest we keep off from the topography and focus on that city at hand. Changes can be made after we've made this city. Simply focus less on the exterior and more on the interior excluding the exterior. Zweitholou's topography map is as far as we go. I personally started itt but as it's taking up so much time and so little art is being subbmitted I suggest we stop discussing the theoretical and start creating the visual.
My skills in adding tiny details have never been good, for six hours I worked on a piece depicting a side view city plan but I suppose I got too tired and it turned out to be a minimalistic mess. :) I'll try to manufacture a map, from the concept I drew, using Photoshop.
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As i was told - The area around the city is flat, with small hills.
I'm making a map edit to reflect this:
(http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3853/amdeniermap2uy4.png)
he landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries.
...especially the main road and the landing platforms road...
I removed one city gate from previous plan. And along the decription the Landing Platforms road goes from one gate to another, the two opposite city exits going to the quarries. Should Landing Platform district have 2 extra gates just for that? I don't know, maybe. I can only say that the more gates, the weaker city defence, but the traffic increases. Would it be too big for only 3 gates for the city, I again can't say.
Both Landing Platforms road and Main road are slightly curved, but without sharp bends, like you, Zweitholou did in previous design. There should be no bends, if there has to be, the other less important roads can have them. Just my opinion.
Because the topography is very flat, the city walls are very regular too, not like in the very first city design.
I do what i can in this team. I can't scetch houses designs, because i do it too poorly, so if I'm stopping someone from doing this, don't feel stopped, because the houses scetches are important. No houses no city. I can only say they shouldn't have square or rectangular shape like in Hydlaa. reality is more various. (too early to say that)
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A problem I find with your correction:
It is located in the center of three stone quarries, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, and one to its southwest.
The lower quarter is divided into different sectors by three major roads, the main road, the road to the upper quarter, and a road from the south gate to the landing platforms.
Therefore, shouldn't there be four major gates leading out of the city, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, one to its southwest, and one to its south?
That is why I put four gates.
Zweitholou, you didn't include all elements i proposed and you didn't tell why, so i don't know. Though my proposed changes may change a bit or a lot depending from what Jeraphon will answer now.
oh gw with: shape of walls around city gates (you may keep the previous small squares at city gates base)
I'm sorry I didn't make it clear why I changed it the way I did. I was short on time and will try to explain now:
@Nikodemus
I understand what you mean and have tried to merge your changes with the basis of the old map. Since we can't add cliffs, I changed the end that looked odd.
I mean that I took your suggestions and my plan from before and tried to put them together while changing as few building shapes as possible. I will change it more if we find it necessary. I feel that the final layout can not be exactly like that because it interferes with building shapes and other things (not enough gates, changes over time to make the road more angular for easier city shape).
Originally, I meant for the semicircles around the inside of the gate to mark off a sort of gate plaza (like in Hydlaa by Oja gate). But I think a depression in the wall would be more defendable.
he landing platforms themselves are located in the upper left corner of the quarter, next to the road that connects the two exits towards the quarries.
...especially the main road and the landing platforms road...
I missed that when I first read through it. Thank you for telling me.
Also:
I do what i can in this team. I can't scetch houses designs, because i do it too poorly, so if I'm stopping someone from doing this, don't feel stopped, because the houses scetches are important. No houses no city. I can only say they shouldn't have square or rectangular shape like in Hydlaa. reality is more various. (too early to say that)
I don't think it's too early. ::) The lower quarter should have square and rectangular houses like in Hydlaa, according to the text:
In contrast to the upper quarter, the architecture of the lower quarter is only partly Klyros. Many of the old Klyros buildings have been torn down over time and replaced by Ylian architecture [like in hydlaa?]. The few Klyros buildings that are left are about twice the height of the other buildings and are mostly built of wood.
As for the Landing Platforms, I thought squarish buildings would be cheaper... That's why i put squarish buildings there.
And I do appreciate everything you, as well as Baldur, rast, Scorpio, and Ramzez, have done to help the team and the project. I could not do it without all the other tremendous designs, drawings, ideas, corrections, and criticisms.
@Baldur
I agree and I try to do sketches when I get the chance. I look forward to seeing yours. \\o//
Also, do you know how we should go about getting Nikodemus recognized officially as part of the team? We wouldn't be exceeding 6 members because Jyoshka isn't part of the team (as far as I know). If this sounds presumptuous, it is because I could not think how to word it properly. I assume you have asked Jyoshka (if he wants to be on the team), but I don't know what he said.
I hope I explained everything. Please point out what's wrong. :oops:
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Therefore, shouldn't there be four major gates leading out of the city, one to its northeast, one to its northwest, one to its southwest, and one to its south? That is why I put four gates.
You could interpret it that way. Another interpretation is that there's only a south gate, not a southwest one, and further down the road there's a fork to the southwest. However, I'll leave it open to your creativity. :)
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I colored the different sectors from dividing by the three roads:
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9599/amdeniermap2mf6.th.png) (http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9599/amdeniermap2mf6.png)
I think it is possible, no fourth gate needed in my opinion.
A plan is plan, simple and the buildings are symbolic - squares, rectanges, triangles. That's undestable. At this point it is posible to shape everything as needed w/o problems. In reality buildings aren't squares at all (like it is in Hydlaa - it is unreal) (unless it is manhattan, lol) Old roads are curved and buildings are built along it, tight, right near each another. Buildings often end with sharp angle at one edge (lower than 90o) near the crossroads or with angle > 90o but < 180o Look at old european cities on google maps.
Of course this doesn't exclude squarish buildings from presence, i'm only saying they should be only there where it really fits (warehouses and whatelse)
I think the city itself is at very advanced stage. It took a long time since another quarter was started outside city walls - As long as the time it took them to build 3m wide and 7m high walls (previously i said ~300 years). So they are really short with free space in the city.
Originally, I meant for the semicircles around the inside of the gate to mark off a sort of gate plaza (like in Hydlaa by Oja gate). But I think a depression in the wall would be more defendable.
The squares are still good with the new depresive gates.
thx for answering :)
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@Nikodemus
I'm working on a new map that reflects this...
As far as square buildings are concerned, I made them square because the Ylian architecture in Hydlaa, which was designed by the dev team, is square. Therefore, these Ylian buildings must be square at least for now to be consistent with the architectural style already established. This is my opinion.
I'm more than happy to answer! :)
@Baldur
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???
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Zweitholou, nevermind :)
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Just my personal opinion. The ylian style buildings in Hydlaa are square, because that was very easy to make. You make few and then diplicate them all around. making it in realistic way is harder, because you have to make more building models and you can't make that much duplicating:
Check out this. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=48.864623,2.334568&spn=0.001944,0.004292&z=18) It's a google map of few Paris streets. It's how buildings look in cities. No matter what style, people want to use every little piece of land, which is available.
I will try to make some drawing, to contribute something more than words on the subject :)
Btw, about the gates, you can place them as you want Zweitholou, i have just gave my opinion. I'm only more definite about main streets shape (no sharp turnings) and city walls shape like they are around upper quarter.
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No buildings yet, sorry :p
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3607/landingplatformkp6.png)
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@Baldur
:) Sorry to bother you, then.
@Nikodemus
Just my personal opinion. The ylian style buildings in Hydlaa are square, because that was very easy to make. You make few and then diplicate them all around. making it in realistic way is harder, because you have to make more building models and you can't make that much duplicating:
I agree.
Check out this. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=48.864623,2.334568&spn=0.001944,0.004292&z=18) It's a google map of few Paris streets. It's how buildings look in cities. No matter what style, people want to use every little piece of land, which is available.
Another example. (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&ll=48.864623,2.334568&spn=0.001944,0.004292&z=18)
This picture is a google map of Piccadilly Circus in London. I understand that buildings are shaped in said way, and I would prefer that we would do it that way too. I just wanted to make sure that it would be accepted by the Dev. team.
Btw, about the gates, you can place them as you want Zweitholou, i have just gave my opinion. I'm only more definite about main streets shape (no sharp turnings) and city walls shape like they are around upper quarter.
Thank you, and I respect your opinion. Also, thank you for clarifying which part you wanted me to keep that I kept leaving out. I misunderstood and thought you were just indicating the basic direction of the roads. I understand now.
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Not a finished plan!
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/Amdeneirplancopy.jpg)
Here's the map I did. A minimalistic piece picturing my lack of inspiration right now. I wanted Zweitholou to see it before posting, mainly because he could get inspiration from this. Mind you, this is not a finished plan, this is simply an idea-sketch. Secondly, some would get the impression that this is the plan and would start working in a completely different direction. I did not want that. Zweitholou's base is what I want to develop.
As I've seen Zweitholou's making another updated version of the map with the critique included. I'll be starting to work on the buildings.
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That looks very nice. Although i liked the way how Zweitholou drew, i get the point :)
You made a "citadel" out of the city. But AFAIK these defence objects started appearing after a certain invention: Cannons.
Before that, city walls and fortifications looked a lot like Zweitholou or Rast drew, because it was the best to defend from that era weapons. Cannons have longer range and shot much more horrizontally, unlike the catapults (thats why the heaped up hill just before the walls [which don't have to be high at all] ) l Am i wrong/right ? Strikethrough the unnecessary
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@Nikodemus: No, none. I was inspired by one of the rennaisances architects(pseudonym Filarete) who happened to live in the eve of the 15th century. I completely see what you mean and I do propose that we stick to the straight walls. I still propose the citadel design and offer the concept of having "straight" watchtowers.
Citadels existed long before cannons. They came around somewhere along the invention of the longbow which has been around for thousands of years. If that hasn't got anything to do with the former post then that's ok :)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/742_Twin_Watch_Tower.jpg)
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Don't know if you guys thought of it yet, but it would be nice if the guarding towers were tall enough so that in case of an attack or emergency a Klyros guard would be able to glide straight to the Vigesimi's citadel to warn him/her.
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Now -this- is city concepting. Excellent work with layouts and map preliminaries, you're working smart :]
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@ThomPhoenix: I haven't, and that's a good idea :) We could have a float section which is elevated in accordance to the city, and a lower section. Ylians could be stationed in the lower section while Klyros, who can float from the towers into the city(and float from the floating towers to the float section). Higher altitudes are also easier for Klyros to reach by foot because of their much lighter bone structure compared to the Ylians'.
@Karyuu, nice of you to drop by :)
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:) hey Karyuu, by your short comment, does that mean we are simply the best, or you wqre just tired? :p Just happy to see you.
Baldur, I think the headed up towers may be a good idea (like on your plan, but withough the heaped up ground at their base and not that wide.) Btw, the image you provided looks like a tower, which is part of the regular city wall ;P and not headed up before it.
The idea about high towers, so a Klyros can glide from it up to the base of Vigesimi's tower seems like an interesting idea. But there is simpler solution. A gong on some of the main towers, so Vigesimi or his/her guards can hear it and run on top of their tower (the Vigesimi house is it afterall), which is the highest point in the city and from there directly observe the situation.
And the promised drawing of Ylian style building with Klyros elements. Comment as you like.
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/342/image07zp0.png)
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I thought about using a traditional horn or something, but that's used everywhere, even in the Winch. And the issue is that when a horn or gong sounds, the Vigesimi has no idea what is wrong but only that *something* is wrong. When a Klyros guard sees a threat, he could alert the guards via a sound mechanism and then jump from his tower and glide towards the Vigesimi to immediately inform him about the threat. The only premises here is that the towers need to be high enough. As Xillix said, the Klyros planned this city. So when building the city, would the Klyros have thought "Hmm, this would be an advantage for us over other city's defences."?
But, it's up to you ;)
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Very good Niko! \o/ Other than the angle of the lower left bend of the house wall(should be straight) it looks fantastic :) Good job as well in incoporating medieval house elements into the design :)
I do still concur with ThomPhoenix, the gong-gong being less effective in communicating the situation :) And towering towers would fit the Klyros' arhitecture.
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I thought about using a traditional horn or something, but that's used everywhere, even in the Winch. And the issue is that when a horn or gong sounds, the Vigesimi has no idea what is wrong but only that *something* is wrong. When a Klyros guard sees a threat, he could alert the guards via a sound mechanism and then jump from his tower and glide towards the Vigesimi to immediately inform him about the threat. The only premises here is that the towers need to be high enough.
Well, that's pretty much a good argument.
Now i wonder how much height does a trained Klytos loose over a distance of 10m.
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Perhaps Settings knows something about that. I think information about how the Klyros fly is vital to the city architecture since it has landing platforms, gliding platforms in houses, etc. The Klyros would have built the city so that from most (more expensive?) houses all nice parts of the city are easily reachable.
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Hello all!
Sorry to have been out for a bit. I had to climb a mountain this weekend. \\o// I still drew when I had the chance.
@ThomPhoenix
Your excellent idea prompted me to do a sketch of a short, and then another taller, tower. (below) As far as sound signals I agree. However, could flags or other visual signals be used? The message would be relayed around the wall to the tower next to the vigesimi's house, where a guard would fly to tell the vigesimi? Or perhaps messengers could fly from tower to tower? Just an idea that might make the necessary height more realistic.
@Karyuu
Thank you!
@Nikodemus
Your building looks great! The perspective is good, and the architectural elements fit very well. Just a thought: Perhaps the expanded upper level should be a primarily Klyron characteristic due to their affinity for heights and Inca's earlier concept art.
@Baldur
I've tried to incorporate concepts from your map into my new one. :)
Here is the new map:
(http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6078/amdenier009af3.jpg)
Here are the main and landing platforms roads:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8017/amdenier009copyen2.jpg)
Green is the Main road and red is the Landing platforms road.
Also, here are some sketches:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/4282/amdenier010nu9.jpg)
Top is the shorter tower, bottom left is a possible city seal, bottom right is just a concept building.
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/413/amdenier011uq1.jpg)
Top left is a rough magic shop sketch, top right is the taller tower, and bottom is an (unfinished) wall concept.
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Working on a design for the Guardtower as well currently :) I like the spikes idea! I'll try to incorporate that as well :D Zweitholou, I so like the details. I'll add some of them to my version of the tower cause they're so "Klyros", if that's okey with you :)
Thank you for the inspiration!
Concerning the walls: Perhaps we could develop on the idea of of tower meeting wall. The wall could have two floors. Often, during a siege, bowmen and crossbowmen are often out in the open, vulnerable to counterattacks during reloads and depending on warriors to hold enemies off. This vulnerability could be less of a problem if the lower floor could have small windows for crossbow- and bowmen and the upper used for other warfare. There wouldn't be a problem with enemies breaking in on the lower floor because it only consists of windows which no one can fit into.
Though, if catapults are to be introduced the thinness of the two-storey walls would be a obvious disadvantage.
If this design fits well with ye others the question lies how we make the two-storey walls resistant to big projectiles and, possibly, prevention of a complete takeover if the walls are breached
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Zweitholou, thx for comment. Nice new concept art. I'm only under impression you forgot about windows at all ;P Btw, I made a 2-level Ylian building and they are mean't to be always lower than Klyros buildings, so I'd expect most of the Klyros buildings to have at least 2 full floors. While 2 floors Ylian buildings being the highest of its style.
You have made a new modified map, but my most recent objections still occure. If you feel like, maybe re-read them, maybe you missed something, :s or maybe you just want it the way you did.
Spikes I like spikes on the walls, on the towers - maybe. It would be nice to find for them some practical reason, because it is too major element to remain purely artistic.
Would attackers use flying creatures? Also, can some of the stone labiryths creatures fly? Then i can imagine the wall spikes to perfectly come in handy. Hm, maybe on towers also.
No spikes on landing platforms lol! Megaras land there! Unless it is indended to break their wings :] No spikes there.
Same can be about towers too. If you mount spikes, no pterosaurs land there, in case reinforcments were needed or evacuation. Though all the towers should be joined with underground corridors, they can be still cut off somewhre in between.
Towers IMO should have levels.
- wall level
- midlevel
- top level (no spiky wooden roof)
- windows in between.
- tall towers - an extra level with shorter diameter just for the height.
No idea about catapults, if they even exist and what mages can do with elemental element of their magic.
We have like a month to make a finished city plan with underground corridors and alike and we have to agree on one.
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I am still here! Honest :)
There are some awesome ideas bouncing round.
I like the idea of wall spikes, but i wonder how practical it would be in the event of attack. It would certainly stop flying creatures/klyros from landing on the walls, but if the creatures/klyros are manouverable enough, surely they can just glide/fly over the top of them/through the gaps, then drop downwards into the city. I think catapults/crossbows would be more effective in keeping out "serious" attackers, whereas the wall spike could keep out some of the less motivated attackers maybe? I dunno :P
All the pics posted look great =]
cheers all,
Rast
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@Baldur
Of course! That's teamwork. The spikes would also defend against attacking Klyros.
Is this what you mean by the walls?
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5863/amdenier013sb1.jpg)
The cross is the window, because it allows an archer to move the bow many directions without leaving a big opening through which other things can get in. The bottom floor is filled in with rubble, and stairs are in the guard towers connected to the walls.
@Nikodemus
Your Ylian building inspired me to do a Kllyros take on the same building shape. Maybe this will help to compare architectural styles.
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6559/amdenier012es3.jpg)
I did not have many windows because yes, I forgot. They were quick sketches.
I meant to fix the map, and I am confused as to what I forgot. Please compare:
Here are the main and landing platforms roads:
(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8017/amdenier009copyen2.jpg)
Green is the Main road and red is the Landing platforms road.
I colored the different sectors from dividing by the three roads:
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9599/amdeniermap2mf6.th.png) (http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9599/amdeniermap2mf6.png)
I think it is possible, no fourth gate needed in my opinion.
I realize that the road is not a gentle curve. I have reasons for that. I believe some planning of the city (including roads) was involved, especially in the Landing platforms. Therefore, IMO the road would not be quite so directly curved, if you understand. Also, IMO while buildings are built to fit in the land and on roads, the layout design would not include places between roads that are so narrow that buildings cannot be realistically built. For the landing platforms road, I think it would need to go further into the landing platforms to effectively improve transportation between all parts of the city. The wall curves in by the landing platforms because the platforms are dangerous and noisy, IMO scaring away potential residents. The highlighted roads have some angles because I highlighted them with a straight line tool.
I agree with the tower levels. I realize that half of our time is gone. As soon as we agree on a city plan, I will start working on the underground layout. Thx for the comment. :)
@rast
I see you posted below me. Glad to know you're still here. :P I agree about the questionable nature of spikes. They were just an idea.
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Klyros don't fly up! they glide always down.
A pterosaur has wings like 10m long. If in LOtR they would have spikes on walls, maybe the Nasguls wouldn't grab soldiers from the walls so easly.
Differences:
- there are no hills around the city at all, they didn't affect city walls in any degree. They should be shaped closer to a circle than something completly else. I didn't include towers on mine, coz we know there are somehwre in beetwen, but the walls itself are made to cover bigger area
with the same resources.
- what kind of planning was done exactly about the roads?
No planning was done with a main road. It was there before the city. They have built buildings around it and then there was nothing to change about it, coz they would have to demolish 10 buildings at once. Instead they made the perpendicular roads away from it.
On your plan it seem that all the other roads are more important than the main road itself, they are nicely curved, even though they were later to come.
Make main and platforms road nicely curved and all the other roads not if you don't want the roads join with 40o angle.
Yes, landing platforms road can be longer, to go deeper into its quarter, but here again, its the most important road - all the other roads are shaped to fit it. The LP road main purpose is to effectively bring stone into the quarter and then less out of it with caravans, coz most is said to be transported by megaras. It needs strong connection only with warehouses and landing platforms. For the rest of the quarter there are sub-roads.
People who live in the quarter are there, because they can't live somewhere else. They have to bear the dangers and noise and can do nothing about it. They have the smallest influense for any decissions in the city. They are there to work. Probably why most of them live in shacks and tents.
If there was planning involved (there was really little in RL at that age) it was for the efficiensy. That is my opinion.
Sorry if that sounded definite, but your arguments wasn't convincing at all. Maybe you aren't saying something.
I'm also under impression that the city would indeed evolve a bit like on Baldurs plan (the layout of all quarters)
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In the middle ages it was common to use attack towers to ride up against the walls of a besieged city. The technology in Yliakum is at least at that level, looking at the Winch. So perhaps attacking Klyros would carry a tower with them to glide over or onto the city walls?
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Maybe a silly question by someone who is not following this very much, but why would Klyros attack a Klyros city, in a peaceful world such as Yliakum?
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Maybe a silly question by someone who is not following this very much, but why would Klyros attack a Klyros city, in a peaceful world such as Yliakum?
Most peoples we know of big enough to populate a square kilometre are often seperated into rivalring Factions. The reason for rivalry could be anything: resources, differing morals, riches or, simply, words.
Yliakum as I see it is not peaceful and follows a political pattern similar to real life. Even in peace times irl wars are waged in different parts of the world.
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Plus, the Bronze Doors weren't built for nothing ;)
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In the middle ages it was common to use attack towers to ride up against the walls of a besieged city. The technology in Yliakum is at least at that level, looking at the Winch. So perhaps attacking Klyros would carry a tower with them to glide over or onto the city walls?
Good ideas, ThomPhoenix!
@Baldur
Of course! That's teamwork. The spikes would also defend against attacking Klyros.
Is this what you mean by the walls?
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5863/amdenier013sb1.jpg)
The cross is the window, because it allows an archer to move the bow many directions without leaving a big opening through which other things can get in. The bottom floor is filled in with rubble, and stairs are in the guard towers connected to the walls.
Exactly, Zweitholou! :) And a good continuance on the idea, I hadn't considered that :)
@rast
As Nikodemus mentioned, the glides the invading Klyros performed to take over the towers would need to be quite precise if they were going to avoid the spikes so they could be quite useful after all. The Klyros glide in a quite linear fashion if I'm correct. Even if windy circumstances could change that they'd still be useful overall.
@Nikodemus
I'd say I want Zweitholou's plan. It seems most fitting for the prospect and he's got alot of ideas. As Zweitholou's incoprorated some of our ideas into the planning I don't see why we shouldn't continue working on Zweitholou's plan.
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Post waiting for deletion
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Klyros or any other race would not attack any race city on a large scale. That does not mean flying beasts would not. ;)
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Are pterosaurs or megaras frequently used during battles?
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@Nikodemus
You're right. I was confused, so now I've changed it.
(http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9440/amdenier015zq8.jpg)
I hope that we can all agree that this is the final. If the main road is somewhat straighter than it was, remember that the quickest way between two point is a straight line. We need to begin the underground map and more extensive concept art. As Nikodemus pointed out, we only have a month left. Also, if someone is good at textures, then I suppose they might could begin on textures if textures are considered part of the 2D contribution.
@ThomPhoenix
In the middle ages it was common to use attack towers to ride up against the walls of a besieged city. The technology in Yliakum is at least at that level, looking at the Winch. So perhaps attacking Klyros would carry a tower with them to glide over or onto the city walls?
Spikes keep the siege tower from latching on to the wall, and archers remove any gliders.
Maybe a silly question by someone who is not following this very much, but why would Klyros attack a Klyros city, in a peaceful world such as Yliakum?
I agree with Baldur, but I'm not sure if the Devs do. If it is not used against attacking Klyros, then, as Under the Moon mentioned, it may be used against flying beasts. Some Carkarasses have been spotted in the level, and also, if tame pterosaurs and megaras exist, then I suppose they would have wild counterparts. ie. dogs and wolves, pigs and boars, etc.
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As promised, a Klyros Watchtower :) I tried out a similar style to Inca's and did this from scratch in Photoshop. That's why it took so long :)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/Klyrostowerlight.png)
Anywho, an idea for a design of a watchtower, incorporating Klyros architecture with Ylian craftmanship. I added the Vigesimi alarm-ramp along with the spikes which could be useful for keeping flying units at a fair distance. The lower section consists of metal to keep the stone-floor up. The top consists of metal. The roof consists of the traditional scales. The windows are small to support ranging units.
If the entrance's 2,5x1 metres the tower's height would be around 15 metres.
Edit: The image seemed to had seemed to have gone somewhere so I relinked it :)
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Zweitholou,
Yes, it looks much better, thx for understanding.
Now, when it looks close to perfect I almost feel bad pointing out little detail :]
I have been wondering, on 3D design and what will happen when you walk by the main road... The more faces you see at once, the lower the FPS.
If the road was to be straight, you will see all the buildings from one gate to another, that's not good. So i propose to curve the road.
Thats the only reason for it to be curved and quite a good one!
You probably don't feel like redrawing it, so i can just warp it like i was doing before if you allow me.
As for textures, they are part of 3d mesh. You can't make mesh without textures and texturs without a mesh if you want both to look good in conjuction.
The phase is called 2d... but i really see no reason to not make screens of meshes, which may come into phase 3d unchanged.
I have already did that with corridor. Yes, you should answer "No" when i asked "can you believe it?" ;P
the same way as 3d artists have something to do in this phase, you will be same as needed in 3d phase as you are now :)
Spikes
(http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5863/amdenier013sb1.jpg)
are nice, but i would forget about them.
The minimum faces needed for a single spike is 3 + it won't look too well. How many spikes do you except on a 1m3? From your image - a lot. The effect will be very similiar like wth the grass foliage (I'd rather save the faces to make the city walls interior better)
You can use two sided planes for spikes too... but for satisfying effect you still need lots of faces over the walls.
Klyros or any other race would not attack any race city on a large scale. That does not mean flying beasts would not. ;)
I'm with UtM on that one.
Maybe they fought in the past, but it is long long over. Now Yliakum has one geverment and one military, which answers before that goverment. Yliakum people don't fight themselves since very long, if they ever fought to a degree that they attacked fully fortified city.
I think pterosaurs and megaras are definetly used in battle, to bombard enemy and being out of its reach at the same time.
Great tower!
Damn! I think they would build the bottom as wide as the first balcony and of stone. I think they would use stone from their fine quarries, rather than buy so much metal from somewhere else. That would be really a lot of iron, if count all towers, maybe even more than the Laanx temple itself!
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(http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7894/amdenier016bl0.jpg)
This is a very rough beginning for the underground map. I just thought I would go ahead and get it started. I feel that there are too many corridors. I drew it with a tracing sheet, starting by adding a stairwell to each building or public stairwells in the landing platforms. Then I drew openings for water to rise up through and connected the stairwells to the openings, and the openings to each other.
@Baldur
I think the tower is terrific! \\o// I really like the design. Unfortunately, I must agree with Nikodemus that stone should be used as that is the primary resource and the amount of iron needed would be tremendous. The spikes are well placed too.
@Nikodemus
I am glad to have your criticism as long as it is precise and constructive, which this was. :) Without such criticism, I can't correct it.
I had not forgotten why you curved it. I was simply taking your approach of realism. Realisticly, roads covering long distances would be as straight as possible, because it is more efficient. However, from the perspective of a game developer, the road should be curved to avoid reducing FPS. I am fine if you warp if it only affects the immediate surroundings. Otherwise, I might redraw (I'm a perfectionist).
I thought the sketch looked fishy... :P
I agree that not so many spikes are needed. Perhaps spikes could be placed like in Baldur's tower. I meant the wall sketch as a demonstration that spikes would only be located towards the top of the wall.
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From contest description: there are no tunnels in landing Platforms quarter.
As a side note now i can see also a reason why the wall beetwen it and lower quarter is far from being round or straight. - the caves are formed this way underground.
I was thinking that when we start modelling we will be just checking off buildings on the map, once placed, so if the map was as much precise as possible, it would be good i gues.
After warping, it looks much or less like this:
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3328/amdenier015zq8ms7.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3328/amdenier015zq8ms7.jpg)
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The "tunnels" in landing platform are actually piping to supply community wells. And I agree that we ca use cave shape to explain city shape.
I will redraw the road. :) Not that you did not warp it well, only warping makes building shapes less precise. :sweatdrop:
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Please note a measurement change:
The map size should not be 3000m^2, but rather 1km^2 (or 1,000,000m^2.)
We apologize for the inconvenience.
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@Nikodemus & Zweitholou:
I'll change the design to meet the feedback :)
Edit: As I see it, texturing is not included in the 2D phase so no hazzle. Just keep on doing what you're doing
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My oh my a double post :|
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Please note a measurement change:
The map size should not be 3000m^2, but rather 1km^2 (or 1,000,000m^2.)
I think it was clear from the beginning that city won't be 3km2
Also, if the main road is 1km long and there are roughtly 15 buildings along its side, this is 66m for each avarage. I think they will be half of that at most. So the city will be like 0,5km2?
Btw, Jeraphon, use this: button (http://hydlaa.com/smf/Themes/PlaneShift/images/bbc/bbc_bg.gif)(http://hydlaa.com/smf/Themes/PlaneShift/images/bbc/sup.gif) ;P
Zweitholou, if you want to redraw, you may find it usefull ( before you did main road like that, coz you were worried about sharp angles while it looks better with sub roads ;) Not that they are wrong! (my previous drawing would fit one)
(http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5770/amdenier018zz1.jpg)
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That's a maximum size...it can be smaller if need be.
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The top and lower sections could be of cobalt. It'd be easier developing on the design and I don't have to change the material's textures that much, as well as cobalt being a resistant stone material. If cobalt is ever introduced. Otherwise we could have similar materials like marble or granite(?)
Update
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/Klyrostowerlight2.png)
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Here are the corrected maps:
(http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9541/amdenier018iy5.jpg)
(http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1905/amdenier019no6.jpg)
@Baldur
Looks great!
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Each house, except in the landing platforms, has a connection to the large cave that acts as the city's water supply. The landing platforms are supplied through several wells.
There are no tunels in the LP quarter. They have no connection to the rest of city tunels, which reach the lake. They don't connect, because they don't exist, thats the simplest explanation. Klyros are no dwarves ;) I think the other two quarters has so called tunnels, because they were there in this or other form already.
Anyway, even if you draw tunnels, they can't have connection to other quarters ;P
There are only wells in LP quarter. No tunels ;)
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The lines that are under the landing platforms are pipes that feed the wells. They cannot be entered.
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Oh yeah, i didn't read legend. Btw, you cut off a bit too much of it ! :detective: I was trying to find out what exactly it is.
Not to offend, but only for the sake of sense and consistency, you are still wrong.
But when i know what is what on the map, i will write something deeper and better explaining. After all it is very "rough beginning" ;)
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I think it would work better to extend the reservoir and simply have vertical wells. The only reason I can think of for pipes is that the burial well is in the landing platforms, so bodies too near the reservoir would contaminate the water supply. :) Sorry for cutting a bit off. I wa hurring an mae a mstake. ;D Any other problems?
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Hey guys
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/AmdeneirUni.png)
Got bored. Here's one of the points of interests in the shape of a shell, the University of Amdeneir. I didn't think Zweitholou's first sketch was complete so I included my own thoughts. A cupola has been built in the middle perhaps for greenhouses or a better ambience. Again, all done in Photoshop 7. The crossed circles are the towers.
Edit: Noticed some lines overcrossing each other. Will be editing that.
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@ baldur
I like this design a lot.
Maybe the glass panels on the cupola in the middle could act as sun pipes (or light tubes - i think both words can be used). They basically work by taking light from outside, intensifying it by using mirrors etc, and then using it as an interiour light source. This is the best image i could find:
(http://www.polycrete.co.uk/img/sun_pipe_diagram.jpg)
Obviously it would have to be adapted to suit the dome. It could then be used to light the other rooms in the university. On the other hand, it may just be better (and simpler) to keep the dome as it is and stick a library underneath it or something.
:)
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Good ideas, rast :)
I'd say, now when the plan is practically finished, the points of interests should be focused upon because. I'm sure everyone realizes this but just as a precaution I repeat this due to the miscellaneous building planning presently. We've had several well put together examples of Klyros/Klyros-Ylian architexture styles from Zweitholou and Nikodemus. These are to be taken into consideration during the planning process.
I myself am considering on focusing on the Hospital of Talad so if anyone wants to take the Tavern, be my guest :)
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If no one objects, I will. :)
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Each house, except in the landing platforms, has a connection to the large cave that acts as the city's water supply. The landing platforms are supplied through several wells.
ok, i quote again for smplicity.
Someone has to nitpick ;P I assume it will come out good at the end of the phase.
Anyway.
1. There is no underground water cave in LP quarter. If there was one, i'm sure they would connect to it with tunnels, just like they did in other quarters.
2. There is only one cave underneath the city, so no way there is another under the LP quarter.
3. Pipes, if there is no cave, there is no real way of putting them there, unless Talad did ;P even if there was a cave, from which the holes for the pipes could be digged, there is again no way they would the pipes, which digging the wells, unless they have GPS or something.
4. Wells don't need some kind of pipes to have water in their bottom. :] You eighter drill, dig or force the soil on the sides. Once you reach the water providing sand-layer, you stop digging, or you have to dig another well, or dig deeper to find another layer. If you dig through the layer, the water gains are miserable. A lot wrote, but conclussion is, a horizontal pipe at the end of a well doesnt make sense at all.
Also, there are several wells in the LP quarter. I wouldn't expect them inside houses, just somewhere on squares, near roads.
5. defence towers tunels. Sure, they are part of the defence. Maybe they didn't even dig the underground, but digged it from ground level 3m deep and then put a roof and covered with 1m dee soil layer.
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Also great progress here folks. You should be moving toward an agreement about what you intend to submit for approval from the team. Good work!
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Thanks Xillix. It's only a matter of time. :)
Each house, except in the landing platforms, has a connection to the large cave that acts as the city's water supply. The landing platforms are supplied through several wells.
ok, i quote again for smplicity.
Nikodemus, I interpret that statement to mean that the Aquifer supplies the whole city. However, it can only be accessed individually by Upper and Lower residents. The landing platforms have community wells that are connected to the aquifer. They cannot enter the aquifer through these wells, but they do get water from it. Let me explain what I meant. Here are two more pictures:
(http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/4371/amdenier020be9.jpg)
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5324/amdenier021bc2.jpg)
Anyway.
1. There is no underground water cave in LP quarter. If there was one, I'm sure they would connect to it with tunnels, just like they did in other quarters.
I think the reason for not putting tunnels in the landing platforms is the expense, not the lack of water. Unless it is specifically stated in the text and i missed it (it's happened before), I think that the placement is up to us.
2. There is only one cave underneath the city, so no way there is another under the LP quarter.
Explained in the diagram above. There is only one cave, but the ceiling of the cave is uneven, so only pockets of air remain (openings), giving the appearance of many caves.
3. Pipes, if there is no cave, there is no real way of putting them there, unless Talad did ;P even if there was a cave, from which the holes for the pipes could be dug, there is again no way they would the pipes, which digging the wells, unless they have GPS or something.
You're right. I fixed it.
4. Wells don't need some kind of pipes to have water in their bottom. :] You either drill, dig or force the soil on the sides. Once you reach the water providing sand-layer, you stop digging, or you have to dig another well, or dig deeper to find another layer. If you dig through the layer, the water gains are miserable. A lot wrote, but conclusion is, a horizontal pipe at the end of a well doesn't make sense at all.
Also, there are several wells in the LP quarter. I wouldn't expect them inside houses, just somewhere on squares, near roads.
If it is unclear in the map, I meant for the wells to be in public places, such as on street corners. The houses are built on either side of them.
5. defense towers tunnels. Sure, they are part of the defense. Maybe they didn't even dig the underground, but dug it from ground level 3m deep and then put a roof and covered with 1m deep soil layer.
Originally, I only meant the line around the city to help give an idea of where everything is. However, the tunnels under the walls might be a good idea, as long as they don't undermine the walls.
Baldur, I like your university, but I am a little confused. Where is the entrance? A perspective view would help, I think. The glass cupola in the middle is a good idea, especially since Klyros like shiny surfaces.
Rast, the pipes are a good idea. They could be used as an alternative to magical lighting or torches.
I will soon post the layout, level by level, for the tavern. I'm almost done, but I need to add finishing touches.
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This map looks quite good.
I was thinking that in LP quarter wells are on streets, because everyone needs water, even these people in tents and shacks, so if wells was public, available at squares, the wouldn't have problems getting water.
so big water cave may be a little unusual (if something i would like it to be not so deep, maybe 5m max below the city - stairs are annoying to run through and they eat many triangles ;P ). In theory we would have to model it, in case someone wanted to play swimmer who can breathe underwater...
If for a change we made a complex of caves, which are all connected by water through sand layers/thin unaccessable tunels (so they could be called one cave maybe?), made like a river shape cave with collumns, I think it would be more interesting. I'm guessing the same way rivers flows o the Yliakum levels survaces, water is flowing the same way in many places inside the stalactite and we have an example there.
And wells can be standard wells. It is first time i hear someone would dig a well reaching some cave lake. digging well, you rather look for water inside sand layer, it just would make more sense with what i said.
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I think we have the same idea but are describing it differently. \\o//
The distances on the diagram aren't accurate. I was just trying to demonstrate my idea. Most of the area below the level that the map is drawn on would be saturated sand layers. And it wouldn't have to be stairs. Probably, it would be better to have tunnels on a slope without stairs.
The wells are public. They look like they aren't, but that is because I added contrast and brightness and some lines got smudged together.
The wells are not inside the houses. I did put wells in the warehouses because these, I thought, would be somewhat public, and the goujahs would need a place to get water from. The slums are less wealthy and therefore are further from wells.
I agree with all that you have said save for the artesian wells (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer)) which go down to the aquifer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquifer)). The openings will have water above the sand layers for swimming. I think they should look like this: http://www.aquarticles.com/images/China3a/p46.jpg (http://www.aquarticles.com/images/China3a/p46.jpg). Thx for answering! :)
Still working on the tavern.
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@Zwei, me too. I seem a bit uninspired. I've created a simple plan for the Talad temple, but just that for now.
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Here's what I have so far...
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/7856/amdenier022hu0.jpg)
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(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/TaladTemple.jpg)
Could very well be posting this up then. This is the basic plan of the temple of Talad. The adepts have their room close to the temple hall to be able to devote themselves fully to Talad. The dining area's for fewd.
Edit: Also check out Zweitholou's plan in the post before mine!
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Looks great! I like the layout and design, and it fits well into the map. \\o//
For interior design, inspiration may be gleaned from the temple in Gugrontid, which I had the pleasure of locating today. Just a thought.
Thank you for pointing out my diagram. I'll finish up and post a key sooner or later.
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I have made an example of wall between two close buildings.
(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2100/image08lw4.png) (http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2100/image08lw4.png)
Zwei, I think buildings should be more leaning and only in few instances straight up.
I think buildings should be mostly man made. For instance, the sheel roof. How many sheels can one find in a region far away from where one can get them? Especially that the biggest sheels are probably in the bottom level. I think they would get flat stones from a quarry and make them imitate the sheels when they can't get them. Sheels on the roof, even partially would probably be a sign of wealth.
If the houses are going to be leaning, i think they need to create wooden sceleton for that, you can't use stone very well for such sceletons. But i think the bottom level can be entirely stone and the other levels have the spaces between their wooden sceleton filled with stone.
While I'd expect Klyros to use more wood in their buildings, than Ylians.
Should we use bricks? Where is the clay mine?
Also, i think Klyros would like to have some kind of sculpture at the top of their towers/roofs. The better sculpture the bigger wealth.
And, just a thought: Should we include bath houses? - for the Klyros to keep their skin in good condition, for their skin to periodically absorb water
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And, just a thought: Should we include bath houses? - for the Klyros to keep their skin in good condition, for their skin to periodically absorb water
You're welcome to do more internal things, but remember that the map must contain no more than seven "minor sectors" - to illustrate, Hydlaa's minor sectors are Kada-El's, the temple of Laanx and the library. So if you find you're getting close to that number, you'll have to start picking and choosing which to open...or, like Ojaveda, make the buildings more connected to the map itself (although admittedly, if you do that you can do less things with them like change the music or lighting.)
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I wasn't thinking of it as internal structure. Just a building, or in fact a few of very similiar appearence.
In future when people will be allowed to enter every single building, i think someone, maybe even we - if asked, will make the interior.
I think of it along the lines how it is done in morrowindESIII - You enter interior and the map you entered from unloads and the interior map loads. When you exit it, the outterior has to load again (or it is kept loaded all the time and only the interiors are loaded into the memory if you enter them and kept there unless you change the outterior zone).
I gues you are working on something simliar or have in plans.
Thx for answer.
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I almost posted last night after I saw the new picture, but instead I decided to wait until I had more pictures of my own. Here they are:
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6092/amdeneir024qq5.jpg)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.jpg)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/964/amdeneir026fd3.jpg)
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8162/amdeneir027ru3.jpg)
@Nikodemus
Thx for answering about the types. I agree.
As far as the bathhouses are concerned, I think that washing dirt off with water over an aquifer would contaminate the water supply over time. If this is not a concern, then they would simply wash in the caves under the city. It is a good idea, though.
I like your sketch of the connecting wall! If the other team members don't object, I think that is the design we should use for the connecting walls in the city. The materials on the two buildings differ appropriately, but I feel that the structure and shape of the buildings is still too similar. I tried to come up with more shapes above. Please let me know what you think of the pictures.
@Jeraphon
I agree.
I think the 7 minors should be:
1.Hospital of Talad
2.Temple of Talad (If not connected to the Hospital)
3.Vigesimi's tower
4.University of Amdeneir
5.The Parting Ways tavern
6.Magic Shop?
7.Library (if it is not part of the University)
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Tavern ideas:
You could put a huge barrels on the cellar level (one below ground level) so huge, that half of them would reach into the ground level ;) There would be balcony near them so people won't fall down.
I think the tavern needs some kitchen rooms too. Maybe in cellar (the top left stairs, 1st level). There should be also tunel to the underground.
Upper dinning room needs (couldn't find in interwebz :\) a portal without doors, ~2,5m wide and ~2m high.
I still wonder how round windows fit Klyros, while the Klyros farm has high rectangular windows. While round/high-eliptic looks very interesting, i wonder if it is ok. Hm, it will most likely end this way.
I like the last image building.
All are fine, various - it is what we need (?) The two building on the right side of road looks like they lack 1-2 first levels. But it is fine. Doing 3D versions, we probabaly mix a lot anyway ;)
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Thx for answering
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6092/amdeneir024qq5.jpg)
There is no cellar level. The staircase in the upper left-hand corner leads to the tunnels. Sorry for not labeling it. Also, the kitchen is on the 2nd floor, next to storage and across from the upper dining room. I do not understand why a doorless entrance is needed, but the door doesn't have to be there
What purpose do the barrels serve? Maybe I missed something. :)
The rounded windows are just a personal preference of mine for Klyros windows. I feel that Inca's excellent concept is a general guide. I don't think that if something is in his drawing it must be in ours. Also, the setting of his building is different. It is a rural farm, whereas our buildings will be urban. Therefore, while most of the basic architectural elements of our Klyros buildings should reflect his, they needn't be mirror images. If so, why do they need us for concept art? It is quite possible that this opinion is incorrect. I do not know. However, that is my point of view. :)
Thx. I want to give some credit to an earlier boat sketch in the Adraax thread by Gentaur, which inspired me on this one. \\o//
I did not explain, but I intended for some of the building to continue underground. If there are extensive tunnels beneath the city, why not have basements on the buildings. Just an idea.
:)
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No doors, becaue it is simpler to move in a game when the entrances are big and doorless, so i think it is a good idea to take advantage of that where we can.
What purpose do the barrels serve? are you really asking? ;P/me can't imagine a tavern without huge amounts of beverages.
It is exactly for that purpose!
Cellars, basements - also for the tavern.
I was going to write about them before but forgot. It would be interesting if each building in the city had its own cellar, later on when we can enter each building, these basements will create even more interesting labirynth of rooms/corridors than the corridors to the lake.
So we can start from places, which we can enter - taverns. A ground like this under the city, with natural caves and alike is good for digging.
As far as the bathhouses are concerned, I think that washing dirt off with water over an aquifer would contaminate the water supply over time. If this is not a concern, then they would simply wash in the caves under the city. It is a good idea, though.
Caves under the city have ice-cold water I doubt anyone enjoy taking a bath there :o
I don't think they are really concerned about contaminating their water supply ;)
Part of the water seeps down into the soil and part of it, in the back of the cave, where all the impurities have fallen to the lake bed, is used as a water supply for the city.
Though this can be explained in different ways, it can also explain why there are epidemies in LP quarter often enough, that the upper quarter is worried about epidemies coming from there ;)
Of course the wetsoil lake may be connected with the lake underground the city and by the time the impurities reach the city lake, they will be left somewhere in the soil. And that is why the wetsoil water is refered as city water supply.
I have no good idea what setting devs meant by the above quote.
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An image for show off
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6359/rcdomebl6.png)
It isn't complete construction, but it is more or less how the dome will look like in my execution.
The stone bearers will shrink above the dome and ropes/wire ropes/steel rods will be attached from its top to different dome elements.
I'm pretty much sure that if they know how to build bridge with 500m long span, they can produce steel ropes too.
Maybe Team Echidna will consider designing proper foundries for the above ? :)
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(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/Belark/Templeentranceside.png?t=1204973635)
So. Hrrmm. I'm going to start working on the hospital!
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What about we have Klyros windows like this:
(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7657/image5bf0.th.png) (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7657/image5bf0.png)
?
Btw, for the todays meeting, i would like that we discuss the differences beetwen how the city is described and how it looks on out map.
it is:
road from vegesimi tower to park plaza
The connection of oniversity to the park plaza
marketplace around the park plaza
marketplace plaza in LP quarter
how will we design the LP+stables combo
and as Jeraphon gave his approval for the possible bath houses maybe Zwei place some on the map (Btw, it would be nice if the map had clear legend, likely on the same image. )
Maybe i manage to draw some. outdoor style. If we wont have time, i gues we dont have to model inside.
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New map:
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/7936/amdeneir028dq6.jpg)
and hospital
(http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/4279/amdeneir029yj8.jpg)
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(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.jpg) (http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6883/rockcliffau4.th.png) (http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6883/rockcliffau4.png) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.th.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.th.png) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8265/landingplatformkp6pq3.th.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8265/landingplatformkp6pq3.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.th.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.th.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.th.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.jpg) (http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.th.png) (http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.png) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.th.png) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.th.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.png) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/834/amdeneir024qq5rf6.th.jpg) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/834/amdeneir024qq5rf6.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.th.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.jpg) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.th.png) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.th.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.th.jpg) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9928/image5bf0ef1.th.png) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9928/image5bf0ef1.png) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.jpg)
+ Overground and underground plans of the city
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Oh. About the stables. I thought they could make up the lower floors of the platforms.
I will post corrected map and new Vigesimi's tower pictures soon.
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When you was away we was wondering with Baldur how to layout the stables and platforms.
There are few facts:- the walls are 7m high + half or so as high spikes
- flying creatures has to fly above them while approaching to land on the platforms
- if the landing site is too much below the spikes, it is impossible to land on them, while approaching from the walls.
- The megaras wings width is probably 10m or so, so it can't fly through the spikes, besides the spikes purpose is exactly that, in case of assault
There are few options to make the landing site higher.
The platforms are much higher above the road level. Or there is a 2-3m high hill, with very smooth hill-side. On that hill there are another few meters high platforms, effectively being almost as high as the city walls itself. From outside the city there is no hill, so from that side the wall is still 7m high.
The goods has to be brought on the platforms level with winches or other methods.
the stables could be below the platforms, but we thought it would make more sense if the stables were on the same level as the platforms landing site. Below the whole could be warehouses, trading companies offices, quarters and what else.
Additionally the city walls spikes could be not present on the city walls directly near the platforms, what would allow the megaras landing even simpler, what i think is very good idea.
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Here are the new maps:
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9384/amdeneir033dr2.jpg)
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2235/amdeneir034mc6.jpg)
Also, here are the new Vigesimi tower drawings:
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7831/amdeneir031xj6.jpg)
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2961/amdeneir030fz4.jpg)
In reply to the landing platform issue, I drew this as another alternative:
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3954/amdeneir032sb1.jpg)
Inside the wall are wooden platforms on stone pillars. On top, the landing platforms and stables (in their first floor) are built. Bridges connect both sides. Underneath, shop vendors and traders can show their wares and store goods temporarily before moving them to the warehouses. Tell me if anything won't work. :)
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A winch!
(http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8176/image09pe9.png)
Maybe it isn't very obvious from the image, but that winch can rotate horizontally and hook is mounted on a rope/wire, which can be lowered up and down. It can be good in few numbers for the landing platforms and probably more common for the quarries.
Sorry i didn't make legend.
Zweitholou,
Nice insight into the vegisimi towers. But if i may propose something, It will be a long walk up, hehe, also i'm not sure if ladders are a good idea. Also, i don't know what the description say currently... but wouldn't it make sense to put in the towers something more than stairs? Maybe make the tower wider? wide enough that you can put bookshelves there, small rooms for all kinds of stuff. My first thought are books, but i'm sure there is more to put there.
Nice landing platorms, I'm only not sure if stables should be below the platform, they could be the same level, but its good option too.
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The winch looks good. :) And I have the same problem with not making legends. ;D
About the tower:
But if i may propose something, It will be a long walk up, hehe,
I know, but I couldn't think of a better solution than stairs. Realistically, I think stairs would have been used, and from a gaming perspective, I didn't know if a small indoor winch, or some similar moving winch, would be easily implemented. What alternative would you suggest?
also i'm not sure if ladders are a good idea.
I think in rl the side towers would be used for ease of transportation and defense. In game, one can reach the spots in the towers using the main staircase and dropping down lvl by lvl. Also, ladders would have less polys than two more staircases. Again, what would you suggest?
Also, i don't know what the description say currently... but wouldn't it make sense to put in the towers something more than stairs? Maybe make the tower wider? wide enough that you can put bookshelves there, small rooms for all kinds of stuff. My first thought are books, but i'm sure there is more to put there.
Fixed:
(http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5340/amdeneir035il2.jpg)
Nice landing platorms, I'm only not sure if stables should be below the platform, they could be the same level, but its good option too.
Maybe the stables could be a building attached to the platform at the base, but not inside it. Also, do megaras sleep upside down? Because that would affect the shape of the stables.
Thx for answering. :)
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You are right about the lift, Planeshift isn't advanced enough for a working one yet, i think.
The Vegesimi lives on top of the tower, i don't think she would enjoy climbing up and down ladders. She is the most important person in the city ;P and would have to move around her quarters by ladders? ;) (I mean these inside the upside-dpwn pyramid.
I think in rl the side towers would be used for ease of transportation and defense. In game, one can reach the spots in the towers using the main staircase and dropping down lvl by lvl. Also, ladders would have less polys than two more staircases. Again, what would you suggest?
So, their only purpose of the two side towers is military mobility in case of the tower siege and transportation of stuff by the ladders? It is extremaly hard to carry stuff climbing the ladders at the same time, unless you have backpack, but then you can't put much inside...
Ladders are good for mlitary, but this isn't defensive structure at all. It is the most magnificient structure in the whole city.
So yeah, the towers can indeed have a little use, besides big impression and platforms for gliding down Klyros. I think i would be much more satisfied if the tower was about something more significant too ;D, maybe someone find out something later and we can reflect it in their architecture.
Btw, who said it is the knowledge center? ad there has to be some books sculpures on top of it? I couldn't find it anywhere in the city description. Where is it?
So what i propose: A steep 55o wooden stairs. Their face count will be probably the same as ladders. But here is the trick: Buildings has this advantage that there is no way you can see all its parts at once, you can't float above for better viev like above a landscape/city. You see only small % of all the faces and only this % is computed at given moment, at least i think it is how it works.
Also, read the descriuption again, you missed some details, including proportions
I made some concept image for the at 50 meters height cavity.
(http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3951/vtower50mcavitylb1.png)
Oh, i ben wondering too how the Megaras sleep ;D I came to a conclussion they are too big to find enough good places to sleep upside down, and so they would sleep normally. Besides, if they didn't, the stables would have to be very high, so they could fly in, rotate in flight and hang to something on the ceiling ;D
I think the stables should have enough room for their wings ~10m wide, when they want to spread them to relax muscles. So the stables can have a lot openings to fresh air, so when they spread their wings, they would reach outside the stables. I wonder what these Megaras would like more a cave looking stable, or wooden, like for horses :s funny, mysterious mutated bats ;)
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The winch good for mines and landing platforms.
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7626/winchrenderup6.png)
EDIT, Crystal Space is supposed to decrease the needed computing for the linked elements AFAIK, so i don't think it would be treated as full 1729 faces. Nontheless it is stil a lot. The min and max distance for rendering can come in use there. There are like 30 faces, which can be rendered only when closer than like 10m. And the gears which are like ~1000 triangles can be fully rendered only when within 50m or so. Otherwise they would be drawn as 2d surfaces or something slightly more complicated.
Afterall it is taking a 4,72*PI*5,5 = 381m3 of space :>
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I've been improving upon the Vigesimi's Tower. If anything seems too advanced or ambitious, I'm sorry. The main value of the floor layouts is the ideas, I think.
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1576/amdeneir036os0.jpg)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/246/amdeneir038zl1.jpg)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/246/amdeneir038zl1.jpg)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5906/amdeneir039yz3.jpg)
I wasn't sure what should go on the 2nd floor. Any suggestions? Perhaps the offices of city officials?
Also, the cavity. I made the cavity in the same upside down pyramidal shape as the floor above it. I did adjust the size. All measurements on the side view should be accurate.
I may work on concepts for the stables next.
Nikodemus, the winch looks great. The 3D model helps explain the gear system.
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There's just over a week to go, folks: you may want to consider finalizing your concepts or polishing what you've got before phase II begins.
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Thanks for the update. Polishing and finalizing.
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.th.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.jpg)
Plaza park
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5977/plazapark04qj7.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plazapark04qj7.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.th.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.jpg)
Changes to the model: The wall surrounding it goes 1 m from the plaza to the ground level of the park. The wall then extends another meter above the park to block out sound. The arching entrance should be wide enough for 2 people to pass side by side. The central circular path should be straighter and there should be another path along the wall. The ground slopes down from the walls towards the fountain. The stairs should be inside the walls. The tree with 3 Klyros statues goes on the pedestal in the center of the fountain. The statues are in spell casting poses, and water comes out of the places where the spell would form.
I talked about it with Nikodemus and Baldur.
In the tavern, the massive barrel should be on it's side.
Should everyone start getting the license signed and ready?
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Representative images:
City:
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.th.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3082/amdeneir040ju0.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5616/amdeneir042jh0.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2235/amdeneir034mc6.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2235/amdeneir034mc6.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.th.png) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/5854/corridorscetchut4yg7.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.th.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6263/image9iq3.png) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.th.jpg) (http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3320/amdeneir027ru3la2.jpg) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.th.png) (http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5320/image08lw4wf5.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.th.png) (http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8373/image07zp0mk4.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.th.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3619/amdenier012es3dj8.jpg) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.th.png) (http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9097/amdenier010nu9yx2.png)
Specific city structures:
(http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.th.png) (http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2533/klyrostowerlight2dy0.png) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1576/amdeneir036os0.th.jpg) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/1576/amdeneir036os0.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/57/amdenier002bm1ha6.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.th.jpg) (http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/508/amdenier007wn7hm6.jpg) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.th.png) (http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/3514/amdeneiruniov3.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.th.png) (http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/6674/amdeneirunientram3.png) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1179/amdeneir043ks7.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.th.jpg) (http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6742/amdeneir044mj1.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8237/amdeneir025ls7.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.th.jpg) (http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5075/taladtempleuq7.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5409/amdeneir029yj8cp8.jpg) (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7626/winchrenderup6.th.png) (http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7626/winchrenderup6.png) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.th.jpg) (http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5296/amdeneir045lb7.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.th.jpg) (http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5214/amdeneir041xk0.jpg)
Plaza park
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9084/plazapark01at8.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/6605/plazapark02xk0.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5977/plazapark04qj7.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5977/plazapark04qj7.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.th.jpg) (http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1567/plazapark05fh8.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.th.jpg) (http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6989/klyrosparkstatuehx7.jpg)
Quarries:
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5/blackholegn4.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.th.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5214/wetsoilyl6.jpg) (http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8336/domeki2.th.png) (http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8336/domeki2.png)
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I'm leaving the team. I'm leaving to Africa for a mission and won't be able to do any work, so I gues you can understand. Probably will play only web-based games through satelite connection. I just hope the lag won't be to big.
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You take care, thanks for the input in the first face and the work you've made :) Hope you have fun in Africa!
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I'm leaving the team. I'm leaving to Africa for a mission and won't be able to do any work, so I gues you can understand. Probably will play only web-based games through satelite connection. I just hope the lag won't be to big.
On behalf of the city contest, I accept your resignation. You're a terrible artist and an appalling man.
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I'm sorry to see you go. You've contributed a lot on the project, and have helped add a sense of realism to the buildings whenever my plans were too ambitious. ;D Enjoy the mission trip to Africa! \\o//
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Oh man! the organizators just announced its was all Aprils joke and i'm going nowhere! Can you imagine? ;P
Good, i couldn't leave you guys just like that and go helping some random people I don't even know. Maybe i try next year? ;)
Jeraphon, so you didn't leave the setting? Really great! I hope Xillix will stay too! Will ya accept me back? ;P And you must be joking with the last part!
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I noticed you say that PS isn't ready for a lift. I'm not sure about that. PlaneShift's movement code already has functionality built in for moving platforms (vertical and horizontal). And there are some moving map parts already (see sewers mill/wheel thingy). To get it all work perfectly might require some hacking, especially if you're planning on making the lift player-controlled. I think it's 80% possible.
However, if you want a lift for this city, you might want to differ it for later addition.
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Ok, it's few minutes past midnight for you and me :detective:
I'm guessing that if someone make that lift to animate, then there is no problem to put it in game. But someone would have to do it ;P
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zoink! :whistling:
(http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6677/image11ro6.png)