PlaneShift

Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 01:20:50 am

Title: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 01:20:50 am
(http://outlaws.myfreeforum.org/templates/myff_outlaws1/images/theout.jpg)


Goals: To be ourself no matter what the law tells us we have to do, if we thinks it's unfair we will fight for it. We don't wish to take over Yliakum we only wish to be who we are, and if that means standing against the law, so be it. We enjoy causing havoc and chaos and getting what we want. We are mainly a bunch of thugs, rogues and outcasts, cast out by those of upper class, and heroic nature, that think they are better than us because they had the knowledge, and wealth to grow up going to school, learning the right things to do, or even caring about the right things to do.

Services we can provide:
- Mercenary contracts.
- Assassination.
- Professional thievery.

Guide-lines:

1. Regarding Role-Play / Out-Of-Character / Guild-Chat:
a) Try to stick with Role-Playing as often as possible.
b) When talking out-of-character use [brackets].
c) We're not bothered about this in Guild-Chat, just in public!!

2. Don't speak about guild matters in public. What happens in the guild stays in the guild. Feel free to spread wrong information and gossip though.

3. We support citizens who have broken laws we which consider foolish, and unnecessary.  We don't accept the upper class laws. But we are not a guild full of criminals, some are simply outcasts for other reasons. Try to spread this attitude whenever possible.

4. Drop point 3 when speaking to guild mates.

5. Be loyal to each other and to the Elders of the guild.

6. You are responsible for your crimes, accept challenges or flee, also rp the consequences of your deeds. Guild support is only given for crimes supported by an elder.

7. If you commit crimes, do it thoughtfully. Try to operate secretly and plan well in order not to get caught.

8. Don't fight in Hydlaa since it is well guarded. Nevertheless, there are sometimes some fights reported at the tavern. If you get involved, try not to harm someone severely since Jefecra and Rabartus are standing outside usually.

9. Have fun, cause mischief [in-character] and remember... "It's good to be bad!"

Member Ranks:

There are 8 levels or ranks within our guild.

1. Rogue
-The initiation rank to those who wish to join.

Career ranks:

2. Thief
-Steals for the guild and for own gain.
3. Swindler
-Swindles him/herself to victory by any means neccessarly.
4. Assassin
-The most blood thirsty of all thugs, bandits and alike.
5. Arcanist
-A person who has chosen the path of alchemy, herbalism and/or magic.

Master ranks:

6. Shadow
-Works with what best suits him/herself and controls no one.
7. Chosen
-Helps the members in their paths.

The Elder ring:

8-9. Elder
The Elders decide guild matters, they are the leaders of the guild.

NOTE: If a member is inactive for 2 months he/she will be removed, though there are exceptions.


If you are interested in any further information, on becoming an outlaw yourself or hiring one for services please contact any outlaw wearing the outlaw badge, and they will be able to notify the person in charge of what you seek. A lot of the outlaws prefer to hang out around Kada-El's tavern for a drink and some fine company, you might be able to spot on of us there if you try.



(http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/2899/outlawlogonewcrystalit3.gif)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Waylander on February 06, 2008, 04:32:57 am
Quote from: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 01:20:50 am
3. We are supporters of the citizens who are pursued by the government.

That line is somewhat odd.  Perhaps a bit of a rephrase so that it doesn't seem like any crime will earn your support :P

"We support citizens who have broken laws we which consider foolish."  Or something of the sort, aside from that, quite decent.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zan on February 06, 2008, 05:17:30 am
Quote
3. We are supporters of the citizens who are pursued by the government. We don't accept the upper class laws. But we are not a guild of criminals. Try to spread this attitude whenever possible.

If this was IC information I'd be silent but from what I get this is OOC information which forces me to ask the following question ...

How in the world can you support criminals and not be criminals yourselves?

That the outlaws do not want to see themselves as criminals I understand completely, they probably think they're freedom fighters or whatever .. and that they don't want to be seen as criminals either makes even more sense. But being what they are and doing what they usually do .. no question about it that the law and government sees them as criminals. Unless they hired top tria lawyers now who can guide them through the backdoors of the law? :P

Also your first part of the message completely contradicts this ...

Quote
We enjoy causing havoc and chaos and getting what we want. We are manly a bunch of thugs, rogues and outcasts

P.S.: See the typo? :D

P.P.S.: Above comments are solely intended to serve a constructive nature and further benefit your goals. The author cannot be held responcible for the instigation of violent or aggressive responses, according to the Yliakean Law.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 10:06:19 am
I'd like to mention that rule three says we are not a guild of criminals, some of the members have committed no crimes what-so-ever, where as some of them have been very bad outlaws ;) Some of our members  simply join because they do not feel that they fit anywhere else. They feel as tho they have been outcast for some reason they do not even understand at times, which may have nothing to do with their actions at all.

Thanks Waylander I like your re-wording I'll just that ;)

Alignment info removed, was something I'd gotten off the site so I figured I'd include it.

Thanks everyone for your constructive criticism.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zan on February 06, 2008, 11:49:00 am
Maybe it would be more clear if you stated that "Not all of us are criminals, though some do enjoy going down that path."?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Phinehas on February 06, 2008, 04:13:31 pm
So... you're outlaws, but not criminals? Interesting... Robin Hood you're not...

Well, just stay out of my way. Also, I agree with Zan's last suggestion. Clarification would be good.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: HekemSkarr on February 06, 2008, 05:35:48 pm
Hmm.. I cannot understand the argument that this guild is not all criminals. I will cite the The Octarchal Decree of 425 AY to explain what I mean. In the Decree, under 'Hand of Law' and the second statement, it is stated 'The Octarchal decree shall be followed by all who wish shelter within Octarchal borders.' This refers to all of Yliakum. Therefore, if you do not accept all laws of the Octarchy you are in violation of The Octarchal Decree of 425 AY. This would make you a criminal wouldn't it? You are publically denouncing laws of the Octarchy. It would make more sense if the guild was secret and not public as it seems the Octarchy would have the guild hunted down.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 06:44:27 pm
Well we have gone secret in the past, and that has not worked out so well, the big birght green outlaws tag above our  heads is OOC info anyways, just ask Esilet who still deny's IC that she is affilated with the outlaws. In fact there are several Outlaws that in thier description they have specificaly stated there are no guild badge markings of any kind on them.

I did not really post this here,for such things, becuase I heard that in the past that the outlaws leaders asked for this thread to be removed because of to much flaming or something. I posted this here to let other guilds know what our guild is about, not to let you try and run our and tell me what I am doing wrong, I do appreciate the constructive critizim however and I have fixed many of the points you have made. once again thanks for your comments.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: HekemSkarr on February 06, 2008, 06:57:45 pm
Ok thanks. That's what I was wanting to know. I know the guild tag is OOC but I also know that some members do publically deny some of the laws so I was just wondering about it. Thanks for clearing it up.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on February 06, 2008, 07:07:17 pm
/me tires to look innocent "yeah, yeah I know I am guilty of that...but hey..even I am still learning!"
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zan on February 07, 2008, 06:07:57 am
*cough*

Still a typo ...

Quote
We are manly a bunch of thugs

 ;D
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Anumesa on February 07, 2008, 06:16:36 am
Quote from: Phinehas on February 06, 2008, 04:13:31 pm
So... you're outlaws, but not criminals? Interesting... Robin Hood you're not...

I always thought of them as sort of loose cannons...one minute your best friend, the next they are 'borrowing' your coin purse at knife point. My character considers Izzabella her friend, but would not be wholly surprised of she suddenly felt the need to kidnap her to make a pretty penny. Dysfunctional friendship, perhaps...but it keeps her on her toes  ;)

Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on February 07, 2008, 10:31:48 am
Quote from: Zan on February 07, 2008, 06:07:57 am
*cough*

Still a typo ...

Quote
We are manly a bunch of thugs

 ;D

Thank you, ;)



Anumesa, your so sweet :) and yeah you're probably right, speaking of which..I have so plans to make--err I mean...thanks for the positive post.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Dajoji on February 07, 2008, 11:04:05 am
I'm just wondering... if you offer services but you keep your allegiance secret at the same time, how do you get clients? A front man? A pimp? ::|

Also, it might help to expand a bit on what you expect from recruits. Roleplaying a shady character is much more difficult than a law abiding one and not anyone is able to pull it off. I'm interested in hearing how you handle "quality control".

And I'm happy to see this guild has prospered since its beginning. Always good to have them around...

*Dajoji looks around confused: "Hey! Who took my wallet? Freaking outlaws!"

...Or not :D
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Elvicat on February 07, 2008, 12:47:29 pm
Quote
*Dajoji looks around confused: "Hey! Who took my wallet? Freaking outlaws!"

...Or not :D

yeah you never know when it's been taken  ;D
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Liadan on February 07, 2008, 12:59:25 pm
"Nothing wrong with borrowing a wallet, I mean, we'll give it back...eventually and not guaranteed to have the contents it did originally, and you may have to search for it...but you'll get it back." -- Moe


Outlaws aren't necessarily criminals, they could also be persons that are deprived of the benefit and protection of the law...but i don't think that definition works into the settings much.  From what I can tell of the guild, they're mostly mischief makers, not bent on wrecking havoc but more for their own fun and amusement, although I may be wrong.  And if that means bending the rules a little bit, even more the fun. Now that I think of it, the more it means bending the rules the more likely they'll do it, which does put them at odds with the powers that be.  So I can kind of see how removing their protection would be move some governments would make, but of course I'm not entirely sure.


Point is: they're not all criminals...some are and some just have tendencies.

Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on February 07, 2008, 01:09:16 pm
Quote from: Dajoji on February 07, 2008, 11:04:05 am
I'm just wondering... if you offer services but you keep your allegiance secret at the same time, how do you get clients? A front man? A pimp? ::|

What considers my char, in the past he has been contacted several times for burglaries and assassinations. His clients approached him like: "I have heard you might be the man for some ... unusual business...". But this is the result of a lot of roleplay where it became obvious, that Orgonwukh is a 'bad guy' (e.g. showing bad behaviour, threatening honest citizens, getting imprisoned, make some good guys enemies, etc.).
I utterly failed to make Orgonwukh pimp of the now vanished guild of female 'dancers', if you know who I mean...  ::)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on March 11, 2008, 06:25:12 am
Considering some changes in-game, I think it makes sense to ask if the Outlaws currently keep this structure.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Annah on March 13, 2008, 04:12:30 pm
Outlaws, souls filled with disgrace. Such a pity for them.

:love:

Though, my plans need you. Are you eager to change the world you know of? Answer this and when needed, you shall be summoned.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Suno_Regin on March 13, 2008, 04:14:08 pm
Annah, can't wait to see what you have planned. :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on March 13, 2008, 04:16:03 pm
Umm..okay then..
/me smiles unsure
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Duraza on March 13, 2008, 05:33:57 pm
Quote from: Annah on March 13, 2008, 04:12:30 pm
Outlaws, souls filled with disgrace. Such a pity for them.

:love:

Though, my plans need you. Are you eager to change the world you know of? Answer this and when needed, you shall be summoned.

Really...I'm starting to get curious about you  :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Earl_Listbard on March 13, 2008, 05:41:07 pm
Quote from: Duraza on March 13, 2008, 05:33:57 pm
Quote from: Annah on March 13, 2008, 04:12:30 pm
Outlaws, souls filled with disgrace. Such a pity for them.

:love:

Though, my plans need you. Are you eager to change the world you know of? Answer this and when needed, you shall be summoned.

Really...I'm starting to get curious about you  :P

Hes a mega oldie who not too long ago made a come back, don't worry lordship... we still have the upper hand.

All of his followers no longer play ps methinks :P

/me sprays DARKOM on this thread and runs away.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Waylander on March 14, 2008, 09:10:40 am
Wait... waaaaaait, Annah had followers? :P


Quote from: Sangwa on March 11, 2008, 06:25:12 am
Considering some changes in-game, I think it makes sense to ask if the Outlaws currently keep this structure.

Would be nice to have the question answered, Izza.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on March 14, 2008, 10:02:19 am
You want us to keep the structure we have? Who said that we were going to change it?
/me is so confused...
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on March 15, 2008, 01:16:39 pm
It seemed that the Outlaws ingame weren't functioning as it is written here. We are the ones confused; are the Outlaws currently guiding themselves by these guidelines or have you guys recently changed something? Just asking if this is up to date.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on March 16, 2008, 06:59:29 am
Quote from: Sangwa on March 15, 2008, 01:16:39 pm
It seemed that the Outlaws ingame weren't functioning as it is written here. We are the ones confused; are the Outlaws currently guiding themselves by these guidelines or have you guys recently changed something? Just asking if this is up to date.

What are you referring to? Can you please specify what guidelines you think are not valid anymore?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on March 16, 2008, 03:12:53 pm
We stopped seeing Outlaws in-game (guild tag), so I figured something else could have changed in the structure. It seems it didn't though *grins*.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on March 16, 2008, 03:55:51 pm
/me grins

yes IC'ly we have disbanded, a feature I'd like to test out, to me it feels more IC to be a hidden guild I will see how things work. this promotional thread however is OOC information mainly to let others know about us and that we are still here.

Is that okay if I leave this thread up and running?

Oh and I'd also like to say I was very honored when IC'ly I was invited to join the dark empire, am very flattered but I  just can't leave my outlaws, sorry guys, but thanks for the offer.

Mahesh is trying however to get the guts to tell Orgonwukh he wants to be an imperial guard...He wants to fight crime  ;D
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on March 16, 2008, 04:45:36 pm
What the...
Oh, Mahesh is loggin in just. Now that will be some interesting roleplay..  :o
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Elvicat on March 16, 2008, 05:27:37 pm
/me rolls his eyes
you two... :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on March 16, 2008, 07:20:10 pm
Hehe, Garile personally gave Izzabella the idea of trying to join the Empire. I bet she thought it'd be interesting to have you helping out the project. Still, Izzabella's aspirant period would have certainly been... odd; former outlaws and law keepers don't usually mix well. Even though the Empire doesn't usually care for shady pasts, we know everything can change for the best *wink*.
We might see you in the Empire in the future though! We're always around.

As for Mahesh... Hwnae needs new recruits! *grins*

I had proposed before that the Outlaws took a more... disguised... approach at the guild system. It's good to see them trying it out. It's easier to get people off their guards when the words "Outlaw" aren't attached to your head.

No problem at all with this thread. You should keep us informed about these kinds of changes though... And if you didn't want anyone to know you were hiding... Well, you could have posted here that the Outlaws were disbanding. Sometimes lies are fun. :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on March 16, 2008, 08:04:19 pm
I thought about it Sangwa but I am such a bad lier  :-X
I make such a bad outlaw haha.
But don't your worry we have some nice tricks up our selves ;)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Suno_Regin on March 16, 2008, 08:05:16 pm
Nice tricks up your selves? :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zetsumei on March 16, 2008, 10:41:43 pm
Quote from: Suno_Regin on March 16, 2008, 08:05:16 pm
Nice tricks up your selves? :P
Organic pockets.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on March 16, 2008, 10:45:44 pm
bah, Sleeves! Sleeves I mean!
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Garile on March 19, 2008, 11:34:27 am
*giggles and shakes her head*

hmm how is it I'm not suprised seeing how you responded in our conversation? Still it would have been interesting indeed.  :devil:
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 07, 2008, 12:05:54 pm
Okay I have been meaning to do this for a while now and just have not had time or remembered at the same time ;)
But after much discussion and throats being cut, we have finally agreed on a new structure, much thanks to Orgonwukh for this. if you'd like to check out our new structure do so HERE (http://outlaw.zxq.net/structure.html).
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Velh Krome on April 07, 2008, 12:16:28 pm
Without knowing yet what are the changes about, already sounds promising=P

However, would you mind to sum up the major changes?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 07, 2008, 01:15:30 pm
err well we redid our whole structure and how we run things to be more orginized and have things for each of our members to do and work on helping out the lower ranks.


The guild structure is based on four Ranks. The lowest rank is the Rogue Rank. After Rogues have proven that they fit into the guild, they will be promoted to the Division Rank. Divisions are lead by the Division Leading Rank. The whole guild is supervised by the Elder Rank.


The Divisions which are supervised by their corresponding leaders are defined by specific tasks:

Economy Division: Increase members and guild's wealth, mining, smelting, trading, auctions
Intelligence Division: Espionage, intel about other guilds, beasts, items
Mercenary Division: Fighting, dueling, recruiting, warfare

Division Leaders have to supervise the Divisions and should operate on their own, so that the lower ranks will not have to be lead directly by the Elders. The Division Leaders Rank of the branches is the highest rank which can be gained by any member and a high responsibility is required to do this job.
 

General Division Tasks

Economy:

    * Keep track of the prices for gold and platinum ores. Collect the names of the corresponding traders.
    * Investigate, how both individuals as well as the guild can increase wealth as quickly as possible.
    * Organize auctions. Collect items from guild members, auction them in public and give 10% of the gain to the guild's fund.
    * Organize guild smelting events where smelters produce platinum/gold/silver ingots for a low fee and give the gain to the guild's fund.


Intelligence:

    * Gather all information about the law established by the octarchs.
    * Spy on other guilds, collect any information that might be useful.
    * Constantly collect intel on any news, Yliakum citizens, beasts, items, etc.
    * Help guild members to solve quests and issues.


Mercenaries:

    * Ensure every member has at least standard weapons and armor.
    * Contact the Economists for funds.
    * Help weaker guild members to gain experience in combat [group and give experience points].
    * Help weaker guild members to loot from powerful opponents.
    * Always be available and prepared for war.


there..copy/paste some info from the site just for you velh :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zetsumei on April 08, 2008, 03:42:48 pm
I still prefer prosperity over economy.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 08, 2008, 04:11:16 pm
Talk to Orgonwukh :p and take this to our forums >.>
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Velh Krome on April 08, 2008, 04:17:32 pm
No no wait.. this seems to turn into an interesting internal discussion in public xD
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 08, 2008, 04:29:23 pm
LOL Velh GO AWAY!  ;D  We have pages and pages of this crap on our forums..I gave up and said okay just pick something..I mean it..we have 5 guys and 23 options!
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Aro on April 12, 2008, 07:40:23 pm
Izzy, wanna talk about the guild structure? :P

Quote from: Izzabella on April 08, 2008, 04:29:23 pm
We have pages and pages of this crap on our forums..I gave up and said okay just pick something..I mean it..we have 5 guys and 23 options!

Who even says this is definite?  There were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy more than 23... :D

*Goes and posts on the Outlaws forums....*  :innocent:   
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 12, 2008, 08:21:30 pm
/me slaps Aro around with a big slimy wet fish!


Don't you forget who controls those forums eatiher...

*deletes a few random posts*


No but seriously he's right..no one says this new system is permanent eaither we are testing it out for now and are open to suggestions as well.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zan on April 13, 2008, 02:23:24 am
Outlaws are getting organised eh .. who would have thought. :P
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on April 14, 2008, 09:29:47 am
Of course, they have noticed the success organization begets.

I hope you're keeping the whole guild hidden. I'm not sure if many traders would bother dealing with the Outlaws and risking empowering potential enemies.

Besides that, I think the Outlaws are becoming a little bit too organized. This type of organization usually works well with lawful people, since they are okay with following rules, divisions and methodologies. However with unlawful types it might be dangerous as this requires teamwork within divisions, making the group work something necessary rather than a tool you'd use sometimes (because without teamwork your divisions will crumble into separated divisions). This poses two problems the way I see things:
The lone types will be bothered by the necessity of having their work count for everyone. They would much rather enjoy the free life of outlawing, while having a safe haven somewhere and some other thugs to help them when things get ugly.
The other problem is that continuous teamwork is not as invisible as sporadic teamwork. This makes the Economic and Intelligence divisions vulnerable to the reputation acquired my the Mercenary division. Most people will be annoyed when they see a thug that robbed them protect a merchant.

My perspective is that unlawful organizations always profit from loose structuring. Information sharing, banding possibilities, hiring chances are the best advantages I think one can get from a guild of unlawful people and these can be provided in a manner that everyone gives and everyone takes, but none shares (simply means that you don't have to count on anyone else but you, while you give what you don't mind giving and get what others don't mind you get).
While organized work, guaranteed careers, etc, should be found on more lawful projects.

This doesn't mean I think the Outlaws can't try to be organized outside the law. I think it doesn't sound too thuggish though, in depreciation of what the Outlaws once represented (mischief), making the Outlaws not about crime, but about criminal people.
No problem there if you're up for it. I think the result would be interesting: an unoriginal guild (divisions like these aren't news anymore [The Organization, The Dark Empire, late Community of Vaalnor]) with original objectives (gathering people out of the law and giving them a sort of organized life).
This would still leave Yliakum without a fitting underground movement of bandits and the like.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 14, 2008, 09:41:48 am
First off, yes we are staying hidden, it just fits us more IC right now.

And we are really just kinda trying out this new structure right now, everyone was kinda bored without a task to do and focus on--so far everyone seems really excited about actually having something to focus on and do right now.
And I don't see why its a bad thing for the outlaws to work together and help each other out we are all outcast together not all of have necessarily broke laws but have been cast out by society for not fitting and following all the rules or meeting all the high standards ;)
As it stands we stick up for each other, we help out each other, and I know there are even certain outlaws that would sell info or double cross us for a price *cough* Esilet *cough*  (teasing ya-you know I love ya)
Anyways we've really grown to be a tight knit group and we help each other out, because its been proven to us time and time again that we can't count on anyone else..

/me smiles and glances to Orgonwukh "any thoughts?'
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Zan on April 14, 2008, 10:12:36 am
Will you be able to stay organised without having to form some sort of rudimentary 'law' within your own organisation?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Dajoji on April 14, 2008, 10:23:18 am
Outcasts that band together and have to endure the same difficulties often develop a law or code of their own. A somewhat flexible but effective set of guidelines to keep themselves in check and avoid slitting each others' throats in the night. Of course, when it's time to make exceptions it comes in handy to be the strongest one around. I see no contradiction in that but there should definitely be a tacit conflict abiding them and the main factor for respecting the rules would be the ruthlessness with which they are enforced.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on April 14, 2008, 05:27:04 pm
Quote from: Sangwa on April 14, 2008, 09:29:47 am
Besides that, I think the Outlaws are becoming a little bit too organized.

We tried the 'bunch of thugs' structure in the past. Orgonwukh did not care if he messed it up with Outlaws members or outsiders during that time.
Let us mourn for a minute about Morila who got tortured and slain by Orgonwukh here, please.
*Orgonwukh lowers his head and remains silent for a while*

From a roleplay point of view, this is realistic in my opinion. But it turned out that it is more fun to work together, build something up. Interaction mainly based on hostility does not keep a group together.

And as we all know, the most successful criminals are the organised ones, and they are the real pain in the ass of our societies, not the guys stealing wallets for drugs.

The restructuring is the result from our own (bad) experience and I think it is not too unrealistic. But who is perfect? ;) Go on with giving us input.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on April 16, 2008, 04:21:16 am
Quote
And I don't see why its a bad thing for the outlaws to work together and help each other out we are all outcast together not all of have necessarily broke laws but have been cast out by society for not fitting and following all the rules or meeting all the high standards
Like I said, if your objective is to form an outcast society, than you are certainly heading the right way! I think it'll be very interesting.

However if your objective is to have a successful criminal organization, I doubt it'll work much like that because crime will come at an expense, since you have an economic division to protect. This means that the military will spark enemy reactions and then have to not only protect themselves, but protect everyone else.

One of the flaws I think the structure suffers from is the emphasis of an Intelligence division. While intelligence is required, I think it is, like magic, just an addition to the outlaws and not a sector as important as Economy or Military (meaning it can be included in one or both of these.) Having Intelligence as a division means that you'll have a hierarchic chain in this division, which means having several members within... In an outlaw society I can't see these people being too useful, unless they are also working on the economy or military divisions.

To this effect I'd separate the guild into "Active" and "Passive" (Society, Guerilla; Collectors, Contenders; etc.) further simplifying the structure and not wasting a whole division on intelligence.
A 3 level hierarchy sounds best for both divisions: Guerilla would have base ranks like Marauder, Renegade (Mage) and Rogue (spy, thief, assassin), then a superior rank for each (respectively Ringleader, Heretic and Agent) and then a top rank for the council of leaders you usually have.
I think that in the field the most probable situations will either require no direct leadership or will require only one member leading a small squad. This makes this simple hierarchic structure close to the best.
You'd do the same for the Society part: Auctioneer (searches for merchants, prices, while also dealing with auctions and stuff), Collector (mines, hunts) and Craftsman (smelts, smiths, etc.) then the next level of, respectively, Dealer, Foreman and Artisan then the council.

This way your intelligence is divided into two divisions making spying harder for enemies (if it's divided into two guilds, then an intruder will come in contact with only half of the spies you have and these spies can be thieves or scouts or just auctioneers. [further confusing enemy spying attempts]). It'll also make espionage something that may be backed up with productive work, since Rogue also counts for thievery and stealth assassinating. The spies working outside your guild will then have stable, secure help from within.

I also think it gives a realistic feel to the Outlaws, since that's how outcast societies usually work (take Robin Hood. They had the people that robbed and people that stayed home cooking, farming, hiding, etc.)

Quote
And as we all know, the most successful criminals are the organised ones, and they are the real pain in the ass of our societies, not the guys stealing wallets for drugs.
And they usually have pretty simple structures (Godfather, ringleaders, thugs; two divisions: fronts and crime [espionage is usually bought or included as a task of a criminal].)

I hope you can make use of my opinion! I'd love to see how it goes!
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on April 16, 2008, 05:41:04 am
Thanks for your opinions, Sangwa. You made some good points there.

However, when thinking about guild structure, we always have to find a tradeoff between realism and operability.
Total realism was the 'bunch of thugs' structure, that just did not work. We are stuck with 9 ranks, which are too few in my opinion. We also thought about giving special ranks which would be distinguished by the number of GP given. We once tested the multi-guild approach, too, but the information exchange suffered from that. I admit, our IG organisation might be not 100% realistic, but this is not our main goal (which is to have fun :P ).
Concerning the intelligence division: The reason for this is mainly OOC: There are players who do not train or mine at all. Those are the players with a high rate of interaction with other players, and hence are the best guys to collect any kind of information.

We continuously discuss matters in our guild forums, do polls, collect ideas. From what we all recognised from this, the recent structure changes were a success. Our guild members are developing new ideas daily, work more on their own, become more creative. However, this is mainly an internal success. Concering the interaction with non-guildies, we need the highly appreciated feedback from the community.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on April 16, 2008, 05:46:57 am
Good to know. As a side note, and this is for every organization that splits into several guilds, while the PS Team hasn't been kind enough to make Alliances something useful (i.e. it's currently just for people to see), the group chat allows an inter-guild chat option.

I think splitting into at least two guilds is a needed addition to your current structure... If only to make spying difficult for enemies. That might not be too concerning for you guys though. It depends on your priorities.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Izzabella on April 16, 2008, 08:53:39 am
We tried that once, we had a sister guild when the outlaws split about 8months ago. it went badly it seemed both guilds wanted all the power...and communication was hard keep in mind we are outlaws ;P well and they are still out there as far as I know...just no longer activity playing PS... :(

lol I dunno really what went bad there, this was before I became and Elder or the leader and I was actually on vacation when when the guild split and not really sure what happened.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Sangwa on April 16, 2008, 10:23:09 am
You just need a close knit leadership. Without one you're doomed to fail anyway, so make your bets on the division again I say! ^^

Nah, it seems like this is really working for you, following "wuk"'s words. *grins* Time will tell if you can move to other structures or not.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Joemama246 on August 21, 2008, 07:02:32 pm
Man, i thought this represented me in my fullest, but I can't find a member!
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: RichardShru on August 21, 2008, 07:06:55 pm
Try going to their forums, maybe they'lll arrange something with ya :)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Joemama246 on August 21, 2008, 07:38:06 pm
now I heard they were banned?
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: RichardShru on August 21, 2008, 07:57:29 pm
Banned? Not that I know of. If I remember correctly, Izzy, Orgon and Evli were all outlaws. Coulda sworn I saw Orgon about 4 days ago...check the website
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: SerqFeht on August 21, 2008, 10:17:16 pm
It's a secret Guild. /who outlaws won't work. I think.
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Aro on August 21, 2008, 11:10:04 pm
Quote from: Joemama246 on August 21, 2008, 07:38:06 pm
now I heard they were banned?


Uhm..  I don't think any of us have been banned...   ???

The Outlaws can be contacted most easily though the forums at http://outlaws.myfreeforum.org (http://outlaws.myfreeforum.org)

Usually posting on here works just as well, you just need to be patient.  ;)
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Morla Phlint on August 22, 2008, 02:39:31 am
Quote from: Joemama246 on August 21, 2008, 07:38:06 pm
now I heard they were banned?
We are pretty much alive  ;D. Not that I even see a reason for us to be banned. We are bad IC and good OOC  :P.
Like Aro said, our forums (http://outlaws.myfreeforum.org) are the best place to ask if you want to join. Register an account there so that you don't display simply as "Guest". It's free, it's easy.
Btw you can see a few people around the PS forums with an outlaws signature: Orgonwukh (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=28794), Elvi (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=24499), Aro (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=31257), me (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=29498)...
Title: Re: [Guild] The Outlaws
Post by: Orgonwukh on October 26, 2008, 03:26:58 am
The Outlaws were part of the alliance called 'The Shadow Thieves'. The purpose of this alliance was to establish roleplay at camp banished, as for example robbery, kidnapping and other IC harassments. However, after the result of this has become mainly OOC harassment (see for example http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33772.0), we disbanded this alliance to prevent ourselves from gameplay disruption.

What concerns the IC reasons, it is just fair that a secret criminal organisation does not take part in wars of allies where they do not know the reasons and see no benefit at all. Therefore the outlaws retreat from camp banished, which has become a foreign battleground recently.


--mod's note:  by request, locking as they are restructuring and have decided to start afresh.