PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Cabra on March 28, 2003, 03:51:13 am
-
I know Pking has already been covered in one of the previous threads, but I don\'t really think the pks put up a good fight. I know pking is very difficult to balance, with all the whiny rpers and exploiting pkers(l33tkulh0my69) and such, but I feel pking is a vital part of any mmorpg. In a mmo, the primary goal is to interact with lots of other people(why else would it be a mmo?). I feel implementing it as an arena is a sorry excuse for a cop-out. Players should be forced(to some extent) to interact with other players. Even if this interaction comes in the form of looming danger caused by wandering around in the wild. Some of my fondest memories come from my early days playing as a newbie in a mmorpg where pking was allowed. The constant danger of attack in the wild actually added to my experience doing mundane things like chopping wood and mining. Ok ok, this is getting to be a long thread and I hate long threads, so here\'s my big spiel.
In a mmorpg, a new world is created. One of the elements I value in this world is freedom. Players should be able to be free to do as many things as possible, yet have to pay the consequences. I think players should be able to pk, yet be punished severly for abusing that right. If a player kills more than 5 players in 80 hours IGT, erase the players individuality, change his name to \"a briggand\" or have that player evolve into a monster. Make the pks start losing stats, to take them down to a certain level of mediocrity or have them match the stats of the monster they\'re evolving into. Make them not able to attack anyone under a certain number of skill points. Pking is a pain to rpers because the pks are exploiting everything in their power to get powerful and then they challenge people who are playing the game not for power but to live a different life. I think there is a balance to be had between rping and pking, and it doesnt involve arena combat.
-
Hey Carba......guess what
you just wasted time
why?
NO ONE CARES
-
um... whats wrong with wasting time? Isnt that what gaming is all about anyways?
Anyways, I (even if I am the only one) do care about whether I can pk or not.
-
my point is, your wasting our time, not yours... i don\'t care about your time, and i like to argue with people so...
the devs won\'t change their mind because you post this, they\'ve already said that too many times to count, now come up with some original ideas that don\'\'t have to do with pking, THAT would help out.
-
Sorry, from all the posts I\'ve looked at so far(only back to page 3 or so) I haven\'t really seen any places where devs have said that blatently that pking is already decided. I might be wrong though, I\'ve been reading up on alot of other upcoming mmorpgs.
btw, I still think the arena idea blows... heh
-
There will be open guild wars...not just arenas...you might want to read a bit more, because it is all there
-
some of Carba\'s ideas are off but i also want pking. But im not going into great detail on why because i know i would be flamed for it, even though kiern is my friend.
-
Guildwar?? That is not what I consider pking. PKing is being able to kill (almost) anyone without consent. Guildwar is consentual pvp involving groups instead of individuals. That does not have anything to do with what I am talking about. Arena pvping again is consentual, which in my (highly valued) opinion, sucks. I still think the best fix would be to find some way to implement the feature yet still keep the balance. The devs are (hopefully) not building a Utopia with complete safety from all danger.
-
\"PKing is being able to kill (almost) anyone without consent.\"
Hmm, I think that may lead to many griefers. Not all players play these games to kill each other. I\'m sure that there is a large segment that would just like to escape into another world for a while. For example a blacksmith. Their entire game deals with gathering materials, making items, selling/trading them. And that is what they enjoy doing. If somebody comes along and just kills him for no reason how does that make it a better game for him?
We want players to be able to explore different areas of the game, we want them to feel safe in doing that. Would you consider playing as a baker if you thought that at any moment somebody could come up and stick a knife into you? By having such an open system everybody would be forced into the melee combat roles.
In this case punishing players is hard because they don\'t have to pay for an account. So they can create one account and get him high level. They can then twink a low level character and just start random killing. How do we deal with that?
Hopefully we can move away from the central theme of PvP combat and move towards a more co-operative system where players work together more.
This is not to say that there will be zero PvP but I can think I can safely say it will be a regulated system.
--------------
Andrew
-
I think the best pvp would be like in real life. You can kill someone whenever you feel like it, but their are huge consequences which don\'t involve transforming into a monster. For example, killing someone in town will automatically make you \"wanted\" for a certain ammount of time. When you are \"wanted\" NPCs will not deal with you and guard NPCs (if there are any) will try to arrest you. Also, other players can kill you without consequences if you have a high enough wanted level. People who are currently wanted can be posted somewhere in Hydlaa and people can hunt them for fun. If you kill people in the wild, and no one is around to see it, you may get away with it, but after you kill a lot of people, you get wanted (unless you have a duel where both players agree)
-
I agree with Ravenmaster\'s ideas. I\'m going to add some of mine too. There should be PvP everywhere! BUT! a person that is going to be fought must be asked first before the fighting begins. This way there is less chaos and new players can defend themselves with a simple \"No\". Although there should also be the option for any player to choose whether or not he has to be asked before a fight. This causes action and adventure with more Role-Play fun for those who like that kind of thing. This is a good balance and gives people of all kinds a free choice of how they wish to fight, with knowing acceptance or life under the ever watchful eye of the stealth assassin! OOO sounds exciting! :D
-
Perhaps after a certain period of time you would lose your \"newbie shield\" in hopes that you could defend yourself. I mean, no one (disclaimer: most people wouldn\'t) would turn off the ask-before-battle option.
-
I think that only certain classes would keep their \"newbie sheild\". Because like acraig said not everyone is going to focus even a little bit on battle. So classses like weapon smith and such would keep a newbie sheild, but they would still have the option to turn it off because maybe they are somewhat good at fighting and enjoy the thrill of a sudden attack. Yes, the \"newbie sheild\" should disappear for more foul classes after a while. There also shouldn\'t be a \"newbie sheild\" at all for those who are killing, that would be just rediculous. It should be once the attackee attacks a non-noob sheild character his \"newbie sheild\" is gone forever.
-
Hmm, I think you guys maybe concentrating too much on one single element of the game. PvP is just one aspect ( among very many ) that people seem the most willing to argue for. If you really want PvP that bad then there are many games that offer just that.
I think our goal is to have combat as just another facet of the game ( and not the main one! ).
I guess the only thing we can do is read and acknowledge all the ideas from the community. But I also ask the community to trust us as well to develop a system that is fun for all players, even those that are not combat orientated.
---------
Andrew
-
For a game to become good, one must focus on even the smallest things. Playing other games just to get PvP is lame. Why? because no one says \"hey joe! Im gonna fight you right now!\"
\"You cant fight me here Jake!\"
\"Well then lets go play another game so we can!\"
Sure Jake and Joe could go to an arena, but they want to fight then, there, and now!
... enough rambling for me tonight. I\'m not going to be a PvP type person. But if I have to settle a score with someone I dont want to have to go to an arena to do it. I also know that there are those people who want to be bounty hunters, assassins, and those that want to be known in a way that reminds them of their favorite character (like Boba Fett, a lot of Clint Eastwood characters, and the many infamous bad guys). I\'m not asking the Dev team to rotate around this subject. I\'m only asking them to add it as a quick feature or option to those who enjoy it. I guess I wasnt done rambling :D !
-
I don\'t think we discount all of those ideas of duels, assassins, bounty hunters, etc. But I feel safe in saying that it will not be an open system as some have said they would like to see.
Sure people like to PvP and we will try to allow for some of that but it will be controlled in some manner. Maybe particular streets would be more dangerous etc. We are all trying to work out the details here so we can satisfy all areas.
All I can say is give us a chance to come up with a definite system first.
---------
Andrew
-
kinoss\' idea sounds good ...a \"newbie shield\" and a \"ask-to-duell\" option are both nice ...but i would take it even further.
newbie-shield could also be an option the newbie could turn off if he wanted to be \"hard-core\" :p
about the ask-to-duell option ...i think it\'s a great idea ...i would even propose areas which would be marked as \"dangerous\" in which the ask-for-battle would be overrun. i think such areas should be some dark alleys in the city and in the country some parts of woods and paths - you know the tipical rogue areas :)
both are options that i would dearly like to see in the next release, since i got pretty much enough of those assholes that kill you as soon as they see you, just to gain exp. and steal all your thinks ...oh, and those that _after_ that try to screw you are the worst!!! ...and those call themselves \"l33t\" ...yeah ...my ass
...khmm ...sorry, got a bit carried away :]
Edited for language.
-
Just a few thoughts:
The argument for PK because it\'s more like \"real life\" seems really odd to me. It\'s a game - any resemblance to real life would no longer make it a medieval roleplay game. If we wanted to make this game \"real life\", it would be possible to rape the females, murder innocent people, hate crimes and racism would be rife, and poverty would abound.
I play games for an escape, not for realism.
I know there are those who want to \"settle a score\" because another player annoyed them and therefore PKing seems a great option. But the net often brings out the worst in people because they know you can\'t reach through the screen and throttle them. Personally, what I\'d rather have implemented is the all powerful IGNORE feature: because in all reality nothing irritates an annoying ganking script-kiddie more than having no-one pay attention to them. Usually works a lot better than duelling - and besides, at 31 I\'ve quite gone beyond the need to want to beat someone up because they annoy me.
If the game doesn\'t have something in it that you would like to see, why not play another game? Or, in this case, why not code it yourself? While Planeshift does seem like a rather interesting game to play, I doubt it will have enough tradeskilling for me, and as a result I already know that I\'ll be playing another game as well. I won\'t be jumping up and down saying that this game isn\'t \"real\" enough because it won\'t let me bake bread.
Sorry if I\'m not very coherent or if I seem insulting, it\'s early and I haven\'t had my cuppa, but good grief I wish that, just for one game, just ONE, PvP would never happen and the debate would never come up.
-
In all of my experiences in mmorpgland, I have never really professionally pked before and if I have pked or been pked it has been well outside of town range, where you\'d expect it. I don\'t feel that if you implement that kind of system, the workers will complain too much, because for the most part, they are inside a protected range. As for mining or chopping wood or whatever, the better resources should come with greater risks. I dont think non-consentual pking should be allowed in town, or if it is it should be immediatly inforced by insta-death from teleporting guards or lightning from heaven or something else.. All I\'m saying is that it would be nice to be able to murder all those annoying little trash talkers. I feel that noob shields are a good idea, but if the only people really at danger are the ones outside of town, how does it really effect the gatherers? Again, I\'d like to stress that I think it should be HIGHLY punished, so you wouldnt be able to professionally pk, but killing an occasional trash talker would be nice.
-
Originally posted by Mehallie
If the game doesn\'t have something in it that you would like to see, why not play another game? Or, in this case, why not code it yourself? While Planeshift does seem like a rather interesting game to play, I doubt it will have enough tradeskilling for me, and as a result I already know that I\'ll be playing another game as well. I won\'t be jumping up and down saying that this game isn\'t \"real\" enough because it won\'t let me bake bread.
Mehallie, you may be suprised I think :). The ongoing discussions about tradeskills and progression are producing very nice results. I think that we will have a very extensive system that will result in a very large number of areas you can go into. Of course this is still very early but I think that we are heading in a good direction with it.
---------------
Andrew
-
I am sorry, but PK will not be what many people want. To put it Bluntly, Grief or things that Frustrate players to no end will not be in this game. However there will be things that make player on player combat an attractive thing to get into.
But Standard PVP will not be in the game. Guild on guild combat will be rewarded, and other such things?but even this will only be able in certain areas?possibly 50% or more of the land of the game. There will also be many types of guilds, so if you want to be in a guild that combats other players on a regular basis?that is your choice. But this will not be the same for all players, it is a choice that you will make by becoming part of that guild.
I am not saying that just by being in that guild you can PK or others can PK you, but your guild and others can find it profitable, to fight in guild wars.
By profitable I mean beneficial not monetarily?though monetarily may be one possible benefit.
-
Mehallie the reason you\'re playing this game is because it does create another universe, a universe similar to our own. The whole concept of giving up on reality is bull. And even though you might be a perfectly placid person interested in only one aspect of the game(trade), I like to have freedom over all that I can do in this new world of possiblities. I would like this game to mimmic or improve on real life in any way possible. Some may say that pking isnt an improvement, but I feel it is another level of interaction in this new world. Even though pking is a negative interaction, It still gives the game a certain atmosphere where you know anything can and probably will happen. It takes us away from this bleak everyday life of work and study and brings us to a world where we Can vent our frustrations, we Can be successful, we Can interact with other people. For the most part if the no non consentual pvp was enforced in town, no traders or craftsman would really be effected. I dont see how leaving one aspect of this new reality would be beneficial to the game.
-
Originally posted by acraig
Mehallie, you may be suprised I think :). The ongoing discussions about tradeskills and progression are producing very nice results. I think that we will have a very extensive system that will result in a very large number of areas you can go into. Of course this is still very early but I think that we are heading in a good direction with it.
Ooooo, there\'s hope! Thanks for the heads up, I\'ll keep an eye out for that.
-
Originally posted by paxx
I am sorry, but PK will not be what many people want. To put it Bluntly, Grief or things that Frustrate players to no end will not be in this game. However there will be things that make player on player combat an attractive thing to get into.
THANK YOU!!!!!
-
Btw, if you eliminate professional pkers, you pretty much eliminate griefers. This can easily be done by enforcing strict punishment on pkers. Make it so that people won\'t want to commit mass genocide. But I think having the option to kill one or 2 every now and again would be very nice.
-
The problem with guild wars and arena combat is that you never kill the people that you want to kill. People still have free reign to mouth off whenever they feel like it, whereever they feel like it and not have to worry about paying their own consequenses. For example, I tend to think that Mehallie would fall into this category. He may be passive as far as physical threat goes, but I have a feeling he\'ll let you have a piece of all the \"wisdom\" he\'s been collecting his prior 30 years.
Anyways non-cons pvp actually does lead to more group oriented activities. Maybe it doesnt lead to more group oriented tradesman activities, although I dont think it negatively effects them, but it does add more challenge to the game and makes people team up to overcome their new challenges. Also, like you said before, what you\'re looking for is a highly regulated pvp system. Why not expand on that? I think the guildwar sounds good, but I dont feel that it is enough. Like I\'ve said many times, set high punishment for pkers. Maybe each person you kill lowers a skill or stat a little.
-
This will be my last comment on this subject for some time. But lets take your example of allowing 2 PKs per character per 45 real time days. I?ll set up the scenario with forum members, I do not mean to put anything in anyone?s mouth just drive the scenario home for you.
Kada?el is doing a quest and passes a group of players and hears this snippet of conversation. ?shut your F@$#%ing Pie hole you F@#@ing Bi$#, you are nothing but a looser anyways? Kada stops to investigate?but is told it is not her issue but the target of the target of the insult does a private tell saying that she just asked how to find a place and told the insulter that he was ?no big help? As Kada askes the insulter simply says I have other things to do and don?t want to get into it. Kada is also short on time because of her need to complete her quest in time. So she simply keeps a record of the people involved.
Later Kada?el mentions this engagement on her very well traveled to website, and some of the people elect to teach this guy a lesson.
So for the next 2 months, this guy is killed by over 1000 players who frequent Kada?el sight.
So Cabra the insulter, is now forced to play a new character for a while all because you did not stop and explain to Kada?el that the insulted had called you a ?frothing a%& breath? and was annoying your party for over an hour by pulling monsters to your groups location.
Now 1000 players multiplied by 2 characters each and 2 PKs that they can do?means you could get PKed 4000 times, and some will kill you even if they might get arrested.
I know this example is extreme, but an uber guild with 100 characters in it could kill you 200 times just out of spite cause you organized a Raid on a location they where planning to go to. Still getting killed 200 times is harsh.
If we add, you can only be PKed 2 times a day?would then piss others off, so there is no happy medium here, we will not have PK except in a very structured and world enhancing way?and it is up to the player to be part of that activity or not.
-
First thing, there is no way people have that much sway over their guildmates or even close friends. People are not going to waste their two kills on someone elses war. Second, it would be bloody impossible to find the target person without them being there. Third you would have to be very very angry annoyed frustrated and ballzy to blatently attack someone if those kills would give you punishment. Third, I think you fail to see how much people are willing to do(or not do in this case) to screw up the characters that they have been working on for the past few months. Your scenario is not only extreme, it is impossible. Maybe a few close friends might gang up, but if that is the case who cares? No grief is going to come from that. Even if you are targetted by some guild with a kazillion members all wanting to pk you multiple times, stay in town for a while.
-
Btw, I\'m sorry if you feel that this has been implemented adequately, but just the fact that this is a hot topic means that it is a very vital and important area of the game. I think that pvp is one element that can either lead a game into blandness or greatness. If properly controlled the negative aspects of this can be limited and positive rewarded. Also I wasn\'t meaning that people are given 2 free kills. I was saying that maybe people could afford to kill 1 or 2. For instance, if a punishment for killing someone was that they lose some stats and skills... that would be a very valuable loss and people wouldnt want to pk multiple times because they\'d eventually lose their effectiveness at fighting. Anyways thats just one idea.. call it Murderers Rage for the rpers... when you start killing people, you start losing your grip on reality and start forgetting your skills because at heart you are a decent person and are now split between your murdering self and your passive normal self. Anyways just a thought..
-
Originally posted by Cabra
Btw, I\'m sorry if you feel that this has been implemented adequately, but just the fact that this is a hot topic means that it is a very vital and important area of the game.
No, it just means that you can\'t take \"Read my lips, this is how we\'re doing it and that\'s that!\" for an answer.
I\'ll give this thread a miss for a while myself. Beating a dead horse gets dull.
-
Mehallie, I\'m trying to be productive here, I think that pvp IS a very important part of a mmorpg. I also feel that the current way of implementing it is not adequate. Can you convince me that trading will be adversely effected by this or will you continue to make stupid sarcastic commentaries about stuff that has already been written. I strongly feel that this could enhance this game. Btw, The game does look like it has tremendous potential and from what I\'ve seen so far many things seem based on sound ideas. But this guild arena combat seems like a real cop-out. Btw when you said possibly over 50 percent arena, were you talking about full on non consentual pvp without consequences? or that only guilds at war could pvp there?
-
Ok, I?ll clear this last thing up?and this is it, because now I feel stupid going on with this, it is truly pointless to continue until the game is in beta.
50% of the land in the game means 50% of all the land in the game will probably be open to guilds having at each other in some way or another if they are at war, or at least hostile to each other.
This may or not be implemented as written depending on how things in beta goes.
Beta will not happen till many other things are resolved, like combat and equipment?so perhaps ask again in 14 months.
We will not have any consequences for a legal PK and no consequences for illegal PK (there won?t be any) some guilds may even choose to be at war with everyone, thus allowing all war type guilds to be killed by them or to kill them?but that will have to be tested and tried, I am sure it will not be as simple as that.
I have not said Arenas will be the only place guilds can kill each other, the arenas will have different settings and some will be a free for all grand melee, others where you can group will have group on group abilities?others only those of different races or different guilds can attack each other?the possibilities boggle the mind.
As for 90% of the other possible ways to implement PvP it will not be done. No one will be able to pick a player at random and kill them, except in arenas meant for that?the world will have more order then that.
As for your concept that finding someone is hard?it is not a factor because it won?t happen, but in other games with PvP servers?it is done on a regular basis.
If you want PvP there are plenty of other choices, we simply do not want to deal with the grief and the many balancing factors that come with PvP. This is a game about community, not about getting jollies killing people because they pissed you off, you will be able to ignore them.
As for enhancing the game?PvP can enhance many games but this is one that will not feature it. There are many things I feel would enhance many games, but you can?t have all the bells and whistles in a game or you just have a lot of bells and whistles and not a game.
I do not see an issue with this stance, it is simply not going to be there. I personally would love to play a GTA MMORPG, but this is not it nor will it be.
-
I think Cabra, Hook, and Kinoss should band together and make their own game with the PvP the way they want it. And I think those of us on the team spending 1000\'s of hours on Planeshift should make it the way we want it. :-)
-
That settles the question doesn\'t it? (c=
I still wanna see a KO option though (just for bar-fights, no killing, no stealing, just as a mini-game and for fun) I mean, what\'s a tavern without fights? If two people gets mad at each other (or just to decide who\'s the strongest) they should be able to ask the other player for a bar fight (hand-to-hand fighting). The game ends when one of the players gets knocked to the ground. The loser loses some HP (and some honor ;) ) but just if the HP regenerates.
-
why are you picking on me Vengeance? I only wanted to input my ideas, I just wanted to be a little productive and reply in a post. ;( Me! im never going to PK! Why are you picking on me!
-
All venge is saying is that there is no way that it will be in the game unles THEY want it to, because their the ones doing the work, and if you want pking make a game with pking yourself, he\'s not really picking on you just telling you that is the only way you would be able to openly PK
Originally posted by Fanomatic2000
I mean, what\'s a tavern without fights?
I posted an idea sort of like this a while ago..you could buy certain areas (such as a part of your tavern) and make it so it was sort of like a mini arena, and people fought there
-
I think telling people to go make there own game is a bit harsh not everyone can code like you guys + you guys made this part of the forum so you could harvest your communitys ideas, I say don\'t bother telling people to make there own game if the team doesn\'t like the idea just ignore it don\'t tell them there ideas are lame cause that\'s not really how you should treat the people that are gonna make your game shine in it\'s glory by actually playing it
anyway I have full confidence that the Dev team know what there doing and are going to make somthing very fun to play great work guys :D
-
Originally posted by kyp14
I think telling people to go make there own game is a bit harsh not everyone can code like you guys + you guys made this part of the forum so you could harvest your communitys ideas,
It may be harsh but ultimately true. We do listen to all ideas that the community has to offer but we will pick the ones that we like best. Does that mean that the ones we don\'t like/use are bad? No ( well, some of them are bad :) ). It just means that we feel that they are not right for the game that we are trying to build.
anyway I have full confidence that the Dev team know what there doing and are going to make somthing very fun to play great work guys :D
I think that\'s what it comes down to. People have to trust us to make a game that doesn\'t suck :). If somebody thinks it will because we don\'t implement a certain idea or handle something in a particular manner then by all means start up your own project.
-----------
Andrew
-
Ok so ive already posted summink like this before but i think that about pking you should be able to sign up somewhere say like a town hall ( :P i dunno) to be allowed to pk the catch is you can only kill other people who have signed up this way high level players cant pray on weaker players unless those players have signed up. This way you can choose to participate in the pvp killings or not, also this would work the same with thieving only being allowed to steal off of people who have signed up and they couldnt steal off of you unless you signed up.
-
These are all grand ideas guys. But very few people are listening to acraig, paxx and Vengeance. This stuff has already been decided. Your ideas (although they may be great) will not really be useful to post.
-
I definitely hope the tradeskills will be a major thing. I plan on mining and forging my own materials, but the main reason I\'m putting up a post is just to say that I like the idea of there being little or no pking in most areas of the game except far from cities or maybe some other more dangerous areas such as dark alleys, as someone said earlier in this thread, but I can\'t see who...sorry not to give you direct credit...
-
You know I\'ve seen a lot about pking making it more realistic. So here\'s an idea, if pking is allowed, anyone who kills another player and is caught should be thrown in jail for say 20 years or so. And if a guard or some sort of official kills them they can not bring the character back. hows that for a realistic pking idea? That\'d put a damper on things.
-
In another thread I put this idea, they get caught, either executed on the spot and keeps getting executed every time seen by every pk they did, another was paying a VERY BIG FINE, and if the fine cant be paid, all money that person tries to buy something with/deposit gets taken, and given to where ever it goes... Another was that their caught, and put into some portal into a VERY hard-to-get-out-of place with lots of nearly impossible to kill baddies.
-
Hey wiggyworm, I like that idea, except for the stealing part. I think you should sign up for PvP, and that would include stealing. Not that anyone really cares...as has been said above, I just enjoy this topic, and I think that would work well, because if you dont like PvP, then just don\'t sign up and that\'s that...
-
Originally posted by explorer
In another thread I put this idea, they get caught, either executed on the spot and keeps getting executed every time seen by every pk they did, another was paying a VERY BIG FINE, and if the fine cant be paid, all money that person tries to buy something with/deposit gets taken, and given to where ever it goes... Another was that their caught, and put into some portal into a VERY hard-to-get-out-of place with lots of nearly impossible to kill baddies.
No PK\'ing! Read! READ!! ... :P
-
First I need to get one thing of my chest really fast, Mehallie do you honestly believe there was NO killing in medieval times for say, gold, a nice sword someone was carrying, even just for some cloak a bandit decided he liked. you say it would be to real if it implemented this system in the game yet you say you don think there will be enough tradeskills, lol last time I checked baking cookies, mining, carving, etc. is part of the real world. and your arguement about the raping, and other illegal crimes in the real world is an extreme, I coudl just as easily say that about your \"trade skill\" for example, why If your gonna add baking, smithing, mining, why cant a player raise animals to breed, shouldnt we be able to build new towns ourself, what about players inviting new ideas, like a cake powered cariage. anyway thats all quite silly. and now for the veiws and personal opinions of Zaphieon, someone that has been playing RPGs since the mid 80\'s.
I remmber when MMORPGs first started coming out.. what a glarious time it was for RPG lovers.. the chance to play there favorite genre of game with 1000s of others to interact with. before then we had were stuck playing alone, before then you didnt go to the store looking for a RPG wondering if you coudl bake a cake in it, make a guild, buy a house, anyone those. It wasnt really about the graphics engine, how much bank space you would have, if there was gonna be PVP(of course not cuase there was only gonna be us playing it). anyway there is 2 extremes to MMORPGS today tradeskills and pvp, 2 aspects players really worry about, 2 aspects you must have to make a successful mmrpg. now in a mmorpg you have very few avid crafters i mean the ones that love to craft just about as few as them as avid pkers in a world were once you ave a repuation of pking you cant go into town cause the gaurds wil kill you, you cant sell to the town merchants cause gaurds will kill you, where when your spotted by a player he runs off and comes back with 15 friends. its 2 extremes very few people are going to really get into. sure there would be casual pkers here and there watching there limit, same as crafters, they will craft untell they get to a certain lvl and boredom then go out to quest or what not. arenas dont cut it for pvp, guild wars dont cut it. if you put these kinda limitations in the game your game will be jsut that limited. I will give you my personal opinion and wisdom how to set up constraits and enjoyable/exciting pvp interaction even for the most extreme crafter, try player cooperation. ok here goes.
first off all crafters newbies always start off in town, usuall some mine and what not, forges, ovens, all that good stuff to get them going.. likewise the pker they start usually just outside the safe zones usually in a dungeon.
number thing you need is a way to seperate those that pk from non pks.. easiest way(and most nonrealistic) is murder counts, I say if your gonna take the life of other players then you must face very harsh punishment. that being said after 3 murder counts NO matter what amount of time has passed between them or after then the player is labeled a murderer forever, after those 3 kills there is no way for them to redeem there selves, after the first kill they shoudl be labeled a criminal for 8 hours of game play, not being able to go into town, and being able to be attacked by others freely. after 2 kills the criminal label should be expanded to 36 hours of game play. the 3 is the forever murderer label. this label is established by either a red name when clicked on or by an aura of blackish-red the readiate, the more kills they have the darker it gets(add more dreaded the player is as well as teh bounty on his head). now those that have become a criminal/murderer KOS to npc gaurds, rangers, bountyhunters, that are in common towns throughout the land, roam the roads, and even scout out the woods here and there for these players. the weaker pks would be no match for these npcs, the higher lvls ones will generally die by 1 of them but sometimes win the fight, the veteran pks will win the fight with 1 about 75% of the time but if 2 are there they pretty much run or die.
Now for the craftsmen. they will start mining around town, as teh progress slowly they shoudl realize for the more precious/rare ores, minerals, plants, ingredents, etc. for there trade is found outside of town the more rare the further they have to wonder, now some trades lovers will say well i dont wanna get pked by some one that waiting way out there for me to come pick a spotted fluffy radishshroom, and well only veteran crafters really would need such an ingredent anyway so what they would/could do is get a friend, mercs that would go with them for these materials in the wilderness, these mercs are players general wanting to kil teh murderers for bountys on there heads, status symbol of being a protecter of the land(maybe a white arua, or hightlighted name), or just plain satisfactin of helping another player from the most dreadful danger of all another player(which everyone knows no AI can match the pure unpredicatblitly, braver, and sometimes sheer dumbness of an actually player).
ok on elast aspect to thru in the mix, travel. travel should be done by several means, first and most common the players feet, secondly maybe ridable steeds if added. and thirdly portal spells if added, now portal spells shouldnt be able to be used by just any player, should be very hard to obtain the ability to portal anywhere, this said there shoudl be portal points not ones which a player decides to mark a rune or bind or anything of this nature. maybe shrines, sacred stone circles, enchanted tree stumps and what not.. now the players that decide to be portalers, should first have to locate blank portal type scrolls off of beast that are deep within dungeons, way out in the forest of the world or maybe the corpse of a player. then they have to bind the scroll to the sacred spot not always so obvisous, all towns would have a spot or 2 to bind in some very secret ones. and thru otu teh worlds there shoudl be spots that are hard to find determine and as a portal channel once the player has atleast 2 binds then he can open a portal between the 2.. not just open a portal from dans house of the weird back to town.. now the portal will only be accessible from the opening side.. the side which you are traveling to will not indicate any thing except you poping thru it..
ok well i am gonna end it here, i am sure there is much to flame, argue about, and maybe agree with. these are simply my opinions on a balanced mmorpg were the 2 aspect players yearn for is met in teh extreme and the not so extreme
-
I TOTALY agree with Zaphieon !
Just think of a world where everyone is good, there\'s no problem ... not really interesting.
Assassins must exist, so conspiracy to kill the king and all this kind of things.
But of course, to make this possible the game must be in a better technical state than now, so instead of writing long threads, why not writing long code pieces ;-)
So please, never say never ...
-
I agree with the development team and various others that do NOT want pking.
I played a few MMORPG (RO, etc) and some MUD. I found that in most *free* MMORPG, there are always a lot of people who create accounts just to pk. So what if you ban or punish the character. they just create another one and go pking again. It is very frustating to play game that way. banning would have worked if it is not so easy to create new characters. There are players out there enjoy making it others miserable.
In particular, various character classes have very different fighting characteristics. Magic users are generally weak physically. They are easy picking for phsycial fighters when they are low level and ambushed. With death panelty, etc, and frequent pk\'ing, they are painful to play. (*If you haven\'t picked it up, I like to play magic users. ^^)
In response to those who said this should mirror real life: If I want real life, I can go watch tv, I won\'t be playing a fantasy RPG. I play game to enjoy and to get frustration. Arena is just fine if you want to test your capability with another player. What advantage does pking have over arena other than letting those who wanted to pk attack someone else?
Thanks to the development team for standing the ground for those who\'d rather have a fun experience (that are not build on others misery.)
Tony
-
Ok, here me out! Before you start typing your message on how BAD pk\'ing is, listen to me.
In the world many people die every day, be them bakers, miners, cops or buisness people. Death is life, and life leads to death. It\'s a basic fundemental rule for reality.
Now building on this... I understand PlaneShift is not \"reality\" in any way shape for form, but should not the basic\'s still apply? If you wish to be an assassin working for a rich person, you do not have that oppertunity.
The MAJOR problem with pking however in every game is the fact that it is abused to such an extent that almost everyone belives that it is a bad thing. But you goto look at it both ways.
Lets say there\'s this stupid little newbie talking big, you try to ignore him but then he starts bad mouthing you... What are you guna do? Go tell a mod that he\'s making fun of you? W00t you sure are a bad mambajamba now boy arent you. However if pk\'ing was allowed, you could put him in his place right there right then.
But as sweet as that might be it posses a problem. You can\'t just go killing people! Reality or not. Where\'s the morals!?
So i pose an ultimatum...
1) Allow pk\'ing in all shapes and forms, in all places 100% of the time. ( i know this must infuriate you allready)
2) If you are attacking someone, who does not wish to fight in any sence, they imidiatly get a defencive bonus that would be more than enough to ward off basic newbie pk\'ers
3) As in real life, murder/attempted murder cause\'s consequinces... You are now branded as a killer, and will be labeled as such for the duration of the game. In towns the police (which if you do what i propose) will hunt you down if you enter the limits of the town. Bounty hunters could even be issued awards for your head. Merchant\'s feel no point in dealing with you, so getting equipment will be almost impossible (unless a black market is implimented which could make things extremely interesting)
4) Now that you have been tagged, weighted and judged, killers and non killers alike have the opportunity to kill you without being branded a murderer themselves. If you wish you could even allow a killer who kills another killer to loose there status as a murderer. Now bounties could be collected and everything
I believe in this way, pk\'ing could be managed. Theif guilds / evil guilds could be made. The game as a whole I think could be significantly improved. The bakers and the miners, they can still go about there lives. The fear of death by murder will never be that close. But the fact of the matter is it must be there...
my 6 cents...
flame away boys and girls :)
-
Originally posted by PandemiK
I TOTALY agree with Zaphieon !
Just think of a world where everyone is good, there\'s no problem ... not really interesting.
Assassins must exist, so conspiracy to kill the king and all this kind of things.
But of course, to make this possible the game must be in a better technical state than now, so instead of writing long threads, why not writing long code pieces ;-)
So please, never say never ...
... and then everybody read the OFFICIAL HOMEPAGE, with some STATEMENTS, and then they realized that assassins will exist, they will be able to backstab, just NOT ON A PC.
The world of Planeshift isnt all-good. There are a few evil-aligned guilds. There are quite a few griefers, who makes the game \"bad\". Why wont everybody get it??
Instead of saying \"pk is realistic so I want it\", come up with a good system how it would work!
AendarCallenlasse: So true...so true..
-
Didn\'t i just explain a basic system...
i know that post wasnt directed to me, but didn\'t you read mine?
-
Originally posted by bugabear
Didn\'t i just explain a basic system...
i know that post wasnt directed to me, but didn\'t you read mine?
Those are the same ideas that has been talked about since the beginning of the pk-campaign. Its not a system (which I believed I said).
-
Define \"SYSTEM\" please, i don\'t understand how that could be anything but a system of using pk\'ing effectively in a game. But what do I know... Just seemed to be a valid way of using pk\'ing... Don\'t goto get cranky at me...
-
More to add to my \"system\" (basiclly agree\'ing with current idea\'s so dont get cranky at me)
5) I belive having an arena would be a great addition to any game. In this way characters who wish to battle can do so without having consequences of any kind. Also putting in a tournament ranking system into it where characters who get defeated are eliminated and having prizes at the end would be cool.
6) Guild wars would also be appropriate but wouldnt it be hard to control. It could draw in unneccessary characters who are part of neither guild into it. So i guess what you would have to do is either pick a time/place for these fights or define certain area\'s/grounds for these fights be it a guild\'s land/territory or a place far from anywhere.
7) Having a system of Honor. Where the characters who defeat monsters more powerful than themselves, battle characters above his level and winning and or performing heroic deads would gain points toward this. There would be levels (similar to a game called utopia however it is not a rpg) which would rank the character. The system is utopia is something like this (not exactly acurate but you can get the idea) Peasant - Knight - Lord - Baron - Count - VisCount - Prince. Its something like this, and at each level the character gets moderate bonus\'s for it. The bonus\'s would not be enough to make one \"god\" but enough to give him the incentive to follow this path. But also have an additional counter path. One were it goes the opposite way, have it also gain bonus\'s but different ones. More towards the evil side of things. Yah know?
8) Back to the PK\'ing issue which is as I can tell \"extreamly\" touchy for most people on this forum. One can not have a well played game without PK\'ing for this fundamental reason. Life is unfair, deal with it. Not everything goes your way always. Why should it be any different in a game? I know, I know, its a game, games are for fun. No one wants to be a blacksmith and constantly fear that he could be knifed to death or mugged by a fearless thief. I myself have played a game called faldon, i was a miner, i enjoyed going mining for minerals, making me some weapons, selling them and what not. But it got old eventually, something was lacking... Danger was lacking... Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist. There needs to be something more... real. Sure theres the constant danger a monster might come after you, but thats regular, its normal and in most cases predictable... You can fight it, or just go mining where there arent any monsters. Whats not predictable is when that thief or assassin will jump out of the shadows, tell you that your life is over, and kill you in cold blood. Simply put, a game needs danger, more than what a simple AI monster can give it. It needs conflict, more than what a programmer can create. It needs... all i can think of the word to use is chaos...
Thanks for reading, my opinion, my \"system\" i think it\'d be cool. You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. No one right now is considering. It\'s not in place. You need not flame, yell, swear or scream at me. What you need to do as a player who wish\'s to see this game reach its \"full potential\" and by all means, if this game is developed properlly, I belive it could one of, and maybe even \"the best\", is to constructively critize the points and views of both the people who wish to have the ability to kill another players (I do not like the word PK all that much since it is in most cases branded as bad) and those who wish to not allow such a thing on a public scale.
These are my views...
-
Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.
What is an example of a theme park where murdering other customers is allowed?
-
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Danger is exciting... really it is, if it wasnt theme parks wouldnt exist.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is an example of a theme park where murdering other customers is allowed?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You must of misunderstood when said danger is exciting. What i meant is, that well, \"danger is exciting\". Yah know? Well no, i guess that might be a little vauge i gues so I\'ll explain it. Danger is exciting, the thrill of falling, the thrill of flying around and around with the threat of possible diing in the back of your mind, the thrill of being scared in a haunted house ((woot theres the murder part :) lol well sorry no like a haunted house if your really into the whole ghost thing it would be kinda scared that things would come and kill you )). So seeing that it may not be \"technically\" MURDER, but in a way it is the fear of death by something. There is always the possiblity of a carnie being vicious and killing someone, or a thug who decides he\'s bored of stealing and wants to try a new route.
But yah getting to the point danger is exciting in those forms. This is a computer game so how would falling be exciting? Sure a monster coming at you might be thrilling, or exciting, but the challange of actually being that monster is tantalizing to some. Why take away that, and question, im not 2 clear sometimes, but did you understand what i was getting at or not in the posts?
You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. And please, none of these \"ooh im smater than you look you mest up in your post so im guna point it out to you, or ooh look at me im shutting him down hard in one way or another. Please all i ask is constructively critize what im saying and put your pride aside.
-
You don\'t like it? You don\'t have to. No one right now is considering. It\'s not in place. You need not flame, yell, swear or scream at me.
I did not yell, I did not scream, I did not swear and I did not flame. I am sorry if you perceived my posts as offensive. Clearly they were not supposed to be.
-
I\'m sorry but I did perceive it to be offensive. I clearly stated a system and you denied it to be one without clarifying what exactly a system, in your definition would be. I am sorry, but you mustn\'t be so hastily to judge what I?m saying...
But also, this was not directed towards you as an individual but the population on these boards as a whole. As you read it, I stated that you must approach this question from both side\'s; the players who believe that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things from player killing to mining, or the side who believes that that a game must be open to allow all sorts of things but disallow player killing on a public front. Many are too quick to judge others opinions and take no time to consider how each person feels and how each set of rules will affect the game as a whole.
-
Discussing this further is like... continuing to debate the Meaning of Life after God himself has already explained it.
Capich?? :P
-
see, the this is even more pointless because god hasn\'t explained the meaning of life
-
PK should be possible deep in designated wilderness areas. These could include \'bad\' parts of \'rough\' cities.
Random PKing should increase a \'Madness\' stat, which negatively effects your other stats. It would decrease slowly while you don\'t random PK.
PKing a far lesser player would put up your Madness up lots.
Assassins would find a place, bandits a home, and travellers in a dark alleyway some excitement.
-
Originally posted by tygerwilde
see, the this is even more pointless because god hasn\'t explained the meaning of life
Why should I?
Ok, sorry for spam but I couldnt resist ;(
-
The meaning of life soley depends on the individual. The meaning of life even today is a topic of great discussion in the religious world as is any topic of god(s). Just because you feel continueing this discussion is pointless does not mean that I feel the same, nor will I feel the same. The game may not be even recieve any updates for a considerablely long time, but I feel a topic of this scale should recieve considerable debate before finalizing.
The topic of wether or not this post is worth discussing is irrelevant to the subject or my posts and this forum, as it has nothing with player killing, and as well if the topic was not ment to be debated it would not have its own individual forum.
Right?
-
[Edit: I used to be Miss_Moogie by the way.]
I just meant that you guys seem to be reading everything but the admins\' posts. They\'ve been here for years; this topic has been discussed for years; they have made their decisions and told you to wait. They made this forum seperate so that the Wish List didn\'t get cluttered with the same pointless topic (shifting it here, out of the way, instead).
They said trust them. Do it. You\'re all just repeating things they\'ve already heard 100 times before.
-
you tell em moogie! lol
:-)
-
*bows before the might of Cow..er... Cal*