PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Ravenmaster on March 28, 2003, 06:38:26 am
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In many games that have been out for more than a couple weeks, money becomes negligible and only trade is implemented. That never happens in real life. I suggest a finite money system. Now the money could change as the game goes on and more players join, but it would be added in by the devs. If monsters drop money, you could have a pool for every monster type or every monster in a certain area. This pool is all the money these monsters could possibly drop. If you kill one, you get a fraction of that total pool and however much you get is subtracted off. If a monster killed someone, that person would lose some of their money and it would be added to the monster\'s pool. Therefore, tough monsters that frequently kill people would give more money when you kill them. As for getting money when you start out, there would be a pool for that, too. Then each new player would get a small fraction of that pool to start out. The fraction would be larger if you chose rich or very rich when creating your character.
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I like the idea of a monster money pool! But I dont really understand the advantages of finite money system... enlighten me.
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Without finite money the game would just get more and more money. Basically, inflation would be through the roof and you could only buy from NPCs. If the economy is supposed to be monetary and not mercantile, you would need to have a finite money system. Basically, if money were infinite, there would be so much that it would not be worth anything.
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There will be a very involved economy in this game. To some this may be an annoyance but to others this will be more fun then killing monsters all the time.
The economy will be something that changes dependant on PC actions, NPC actions, and worlds events. I would like to say that all things will be encapsulated into a ?World AI? but to say that we as developers will never tweak things is unrealistic.
We also hope to make things where if you want to have equipment equivalent to your level and all you do is kill monsters, you will always be short of coin?but to attain that balance will require a lot of adjusting.
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This actually brings up a question: just how DO you make money in this game other than from monsters? Granted, there are \"jobs\" listed ingame, but nothing on the site as to whether these will be considered tradeskills.
Wee bit confused in this regard.
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Not to be flippant, but people usually make money by selling things or providing services?it will be the same in this game. the exact details are not worked out to a finality that could be publicly published yet, but the economic part of the game will hopefully act as close to the real world economy as possible. Some things will give little money, some more, some a lot?all based on supply and demand. The issues in this is we have a vast world and the details of the system will need to be tweaked and tweaked till it works in a fashion that the dev team is happy with.
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no you\'re not being flippant :) It\'s just that I have actually seen MMORPG\'s that supposedly had a tradeskill-based economy that later turned out to give traders NO money whatsoever, and therefore the trading was pretty much scrapped.
I guess I\'ll just wait and see - no rush!
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Reminds me of DIABLO II where money wasn\'t worth anything. Unrealistic! )=<
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I think it is safe to say this game will be nothing like Diablo II.
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So will the overall quantity of money within the game be watched to make sure mass inflation doesn\'t ruin money altogether? By not getting money from monsters or other infinite sources, the system would be finite, although not necessarily regulated.
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I think that money shouldn\'t be finite because then money will be hard to get if everyone gets pecentages i think it should be infinate but developers wach for cheap things people do and warn them not to also i think it should be monitored and the can controll the base price for objects
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Originally posted by krythonthegreat
i think it should be infinate but developers wach for cheap things people do and warn them not to also i think it should be monitored and the can controll the base price for objects
So the devs will monitor EVERYONE and see who is getting money and then tell them to stop? Good plan... (sarcasm)
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I have always had two questions when thinking about the economy of most games like this:
1. Where do monsters get all this gold?
2. Why do monsters carry gold at all?
For the first question, I guess they could get gold by killing players, but I think on average in most games monsters drop way more gold than is lost by players.
And for the second, I don\'t see why they would carry it around. Most monsters are unintelligent and probably have no idea what it is used for (which could be a reason for them to carry it, I guess). I also highly doubt that they use it to trade with other monsters or players, as that doesn\'t make any sense.
Just a couple things I\'ve been wondering about. I\'d love to hear some responses from others about this.
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The reason monsters carry gold is so players can kill them and be happy. If monsters didn\'t carry gold they wouldn\'t get killed as often, so their life would be boring since their purpose of existance is to be killed by players. See?
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along the same lines, why do monsters usually carry the items they drop either? but supposing they didnt, then it would be difficult to gain wealth. quests or the such would work, but it would become pretty tedious. maybe your trade could fetch you a steady source of income, but you would have to know what you were doing.
also, in a finite economy, the first x players to register would all receive some set amount of gold, but then every subsequent player would receive less and less gold until at some point there are enough people registered that no one would recieve gold upon starting a new character, which seems a bit harsh. you could make it such that you start with no gold or something, but then \"rich\" and \"very rich\" would have to be removed.
or maybe they should implement some way to counteract inflation, like if you die, some of the money you have simply vanishes, much the same way governments destroy some of their money to keep the value up.
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Monsters, even though they are sometimes portrayed as \'dumb\' really are not. They usually have the ability to use weapons like daggers and swords to fight off thier opponets. Usually they fight in groups instead of alone. And so on and so forth, maybe the monsters find the coins to be \'shiny\' and just like to have them for that reason.
I think the money pool for monster types is an excellent idea. Also money that is dropped and disappears should be split up and added to the monster pools, like a monster \'finds\' the money.
Also when someone creates a character 1000 (or so) is split up between all monster pools, that way as more people play more money will automaticly be added to the game at a steady rate. If you dont have a way of new money getting introduced to the game, (like 1000 added TO the game when you connect.. [not to your player]) when players quit they tend to keep some items and those are lost. As players quit playing they may have substantial amounts of money in their bank accounts or on their characters. This money will not be deleted or moved to the monsters because what if this guy decided to come back a year or so later?
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Well, there could be a tax for players who have not played for a month or more. Every so much time you lose so much money. Also, as for the starting money pool, people could donate to it (and some people probably would) in order to allow newbs to get something. It is possible that eventually you would start with no money without rich or very rich, and some money would have to be added into the system if you chose one of those options. However, later in the game, this could be an easy exploit to get rich.
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Hmmm, I actually like the idea about poor and rich people. The poor people with dirt all over them who have to beg to survive and who dresses in rags, and the rich people who can do what pleases them. It adds some athmosphere into the game (=
\"Who\'s that, then?\"
\"I don\'t know. Must be a king.\"
\"Why?\"
\"He hasn\'t got sh#t all over him.\"
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Here are my ideas and questions on the idea of a finite economy.
Monster Loot
I agree with Xandria\'s view on why monsters carry around money, especially money used in the same system as others. I see the point of dropping weapons and items they are carrying, but not similar money. The only exception would be if the monster is \'civilized\' or there is a common money translation for all, like gold or something similar. Now, take Orcs as an example. How does their society work? What is the common Orc\'s life like? If they use a system of money, what is it, and is it similar to that of the races of Yliklum (however you spell it)? Now, if they carry money around a city, that makes sense, but I don\'t see how someone will survive in a city of Orcs. Unless they are an Orc, but that\'s not exactly an exception.
What I\'m trying to say is that certain types of creatures carry money, like Orcs, and others don\'t. I never saw why dragons sccumalted wealth. What DO they use it for, anyway? Orcs live in a common society, so there is a reason for them to carry around gold. Any creature living in a somewhat civilized society (this includes Orcs), any that actually knows how to build a crude hut at best, should carry money. Otherwise, they should not carry around any, unless they have a system of trade going on.
I agree with teh idea of a monster loot pool, but only for creatures like I have stated above. This could also mean a finite economy for other societies of peoples.
Finite Money and Gaining More
How do NPCs get the money to buy everything PCs sell? They are paid by the government. How does the government get their money? With taxes, mints, and trade. Now please excuse my ignorance of how governments work, but here are my ideas. I agree with the idea of a tax, even if it does get annoying, but that at least forces players to get a job and get money other than killing.
WIll add more later.
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But players are hardly ever tied down to a certain town, they will always be traveling and going to different places. Also few people will have houses and things to tax, so...
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Tax should only be for really rich people who horde money and therefore reduce the money everyone else could have and people who haven\'t played for a long time, to reuse money from people who no longer play.
Here\'s a good reason why monsters would carry money:
If you get money off a monster, it may not REALLY be gold, or whatever the currency is. It could just be anything of value, but no particular purpose other than trade, like a gem or a tusk. Therefore, it gets all these things and just calls them money, perhaps even gives them the money icon. AS for dragons hording gold and gems, well they don\'t need a reason. They\'re bigger than you.
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Originally posted by Ravenmaster
Tax should only be for really rich people who horde money and therefore reduce the money everyone else could have and people who haven\'t played for a long time, to reuse money from people who no longer play.
I dont like that idea. Chances are that most rich people have worked hard to get their money. So a tax on everybody wouldnt be too cool in my taste. I think that bank accounts should have some intrest, and as your money hit a certain mark, your intrest would stop, or become very small. Poor peoples intrest would go up more than a rich persons. But the intrest would only go up for every say, two hours you played. If you didnt play in like a month or so, your money would start decreasing to a limit of ~200.
A tax should only be put onto a person if the money is coming in at a steady rate. Otherwise, they\'d be losing the money that they\'ve made.
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Maybe it would help if merchants have actual money pools. Monsters in this case would drop little to no money but herbs could be find in parts of the labyrint or ore and they could drop weapons as far as they use them and they are not total crap.
NPC\'s would buy these items as long as they have enough money. So eg. a chemist would buy the herbs you find for small amounts of money untill he has wasted all the money he owns. He would regain money by selling potions to players.
Same would go for the owner of a weaponshop and the weapons monsters drop, blacksmith and ore... you catch my drift
Some money would have to be added tho to compensate for increase of players and money loss (if that will be possible) but i think game mods could easily adjust total money if they program in a way to keep track of total money and active players.
This should of course work for player merchants as well. The starting cash could come from making potions from easy to find herbs or something (not too usefull potions they shouldn\'t be capable of making good profit of these herbs/the potions shouldn\'t sell in large qauntities)
It\'ll probably be tricky to keep balanced tho...
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For those of you who wish to know, dragons use their valuables as bait.
Some monsters could well drop some gold, as undigested remains from players... This could also account for some gold in lairs, probably no huge amounts though....
/Starchild
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not only do dragons use their valuables as bait but they also just enjoy hording things in their spare time(elipses)....... .. ... ..... ... ... .... ... ..... .... ... ....
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Duh!
Dragons need gold to lay on.
It\'s they\'re most comfortable bedding material.
Or that\'s something I remember reading some where.
I think it was the Hobbit or AD&D monsters guide.
:)
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Originally posted by Lorune
Duh!
Dragons need gold to lay on.
It\'s they\'re most comfortable bedding material.
ooooohhh yeaaaa :D if i was a dragon i would also lay on gold ...maybe rahter on siver, platin, perls and gems - but gold would do :D
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The best system is if the players makes the money themselfs in a mint.
They must of course have resources to make money from and they must also watch carefully so they don\'t inject to much or little money (can anyone say Inflation and Deflation.)
The currency might be forced to be backed up by other goods to have an real value but that is another cake.
And if we are going to have mints then we can\'t have any npc traders, all selling must be handled by players so they can adjust their prices after the availability of money...
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the thing is that even IRL there\'s no finite economy - the money\'s forged as soon as it is needed ...so if there will be a limit to money, then that limit should depend on the number of (active) players
p.s. maybe that was already said, but i\'m sorry, i didn\'t have time to read the whole topic ...gotta study :))
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Originally posted by Ravenmaster
Without finite money the game would just get more and more money. Basically, inflation would be through the roof and you could only buy from NPCs. If the economy is supposed to be monetary and not mercantile, you would need to have a finite money system. Basically, if money were infinite, there would be so much that it would not be worth anything.
i agree with u on the inflation part, but in order to control that is have some sort of central bank that can influence the supply of money in the game. and only it can issued money.
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... Or maybe we can have things that break that need to be replaced which costs money thus removing the problems of inflation! :P
Really, if there are enough money sinks in the game there\'s no problem since the majority of the gold goes down the \"drain\" so to speak (repairing items/replacing items by buying new ones/etc)
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yes but \'money sinks\' as you put it become aggravating