PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: hook on March 08, 2008, 10:45:33 am
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It would be great to have official screenshots of PS SB (i.e. 0.4.x) on the homepage soon.
My motives for this plead are:
* players (new and old) to awe upon it while waiting for the download
* potential new players
* gaming sites like HappyPenguin.org to include a representable screenshot (the one on happypenguin is still from the MB times!!!)
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only talad can do that and he is busy and the other devs are busy doing other things, i dont see the point here. anyone can take screenshots whenever they want and try to submit them to sites like that to get them updated.
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That's true (at least on HappyPenguin)... It'd still be nice to have screenshots of the current version on planeshift.it though ...when Talad finds time ;)
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CLICK ME! (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7325/shot56an8.jpg)
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/me steels the screenie and runs off
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FYI, I took or updated nearly 90% of the screenshots that are on the main page. So it's not purely Talad's responsibility. If anyone has some really nifty shots they want to submit (must be at least 1024x768 resolution) give me a poke and I'll try to make sure they're put up. Aim for decent lighting (hard in PS, I know..!) and turn your settings up as high as they can go :]
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or build your own test server and use the gm commands to take shots from anywhere and any angle to get that perfect picture!
:P
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CLICK ME! (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7325/shot56an8.jpg)
/me takes her pic back
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or build your own test server and use the gm commands to take shots from anywhere and any angle to get that perfect picture!
Isn't that discouraged?
According the the PlaneShift content license (which governs the useage of artwork for instance):
3. You may use the provided Material, for personal use only, to connect to an Official PlaneShift Server only in conjunction with a Planeshift Client, distributed by Atomic Blue. Official PlaneShift Servers can only be designated by Atomic Blue.
I know that maybe they don't mind you using it to take screenshots but is it wise to actually encourage violating the license? Actually I think that part of the license is poorly conceived and should include deviations for non public servers used for testing or fanart purposes.
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if people weren't allowed to build the server, there wouldn't be a testing team.
so no, I don't see how me taking a screenshot produced by one of our official testers and providing it here, is violating any license.
Also, this video would have never been made, which has become the unofficial official trailer/preview thing of what the game had to offer at that in PS's history.: http://youtube.com/watch?v=YC0j_tQygCA
So I see no issue with building a server for screenshot purposes, especially if you plan on submitting them to be used on the main official PS website.
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It is simply because according to the license the only legal use for the artwork provided is to use an official planeshift binary to connect to the official PlaneShift server.
Testing servers are of course necessary and allowed but those people are on the development team and thus are a part of the development process. This I assume is part of the development process and used for code testing and the like. I think its a different matter when its a developer working within the workflow of the internals of the project and random other people.
I'm not defending the license or even saying it should be obeyed. We've had guild meetings ingame on my server before in a custom map for the Council of Vaalnor. I'm just surprised to see a somewhat official suggestion to disobey the license. Since the license states that connecting to the official server with an official client is the ONLY thing that the art is licensed for, it is indeed a violation. I'm guessing that the developers don't have to agree to the planeshift eula before launching their test server with new internal art packages.
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Induane, mountains out of molehills.
People can run a server with PS art to take screenshots, or explore the world on their own. They can run a server to test what the GM commands are like. I've encouraged it during all my time here, and so have many other devs. It's really not something to pick at. Moreover if it actually becomes an issue, I'll further encourage people to say they're testing something locally to see if they can help the team and that's their excuse ;)
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I'm picking because I was warned that if I didn't shut down mine I'd get a cease and desist order. No one could connect outside our guild and it was used for things like guild screenshots of us having meetings and for testing art we were trying to submit to planeshift. I suppose its my fault for asking questions about it in #planeshift-build when I was working on my guide on testing art in planeshift using a self compiled test server. I guess I'm mostly picking because I was told to shut it down when I was trying to help document development stuff for PlaneShift and now its being publicly encouraged in some form. I'm glad you encouraged it. I tried the testing argument and was told that that didn't matter because I wasn't a developer and besides testing wasn't the only purpose because guild mates connected to it for meetings. It seemed to me that THAT was making a mountain out of a molehill.
I didn't mean to nitpick, I just found it frustrating and should think the public stance needs clarified then because if someone else does do so and mentions it in the wrong company and gets told to shut it down as I was then there is a problem. Granted I haven't had my server up in over a year so no complaints recently.
I don't mean to bring a personal issue into this but I mention it because it adheres to the relevance of my comments. It was a frustrating experience so I'd rather the official stance be made public not personal stances of some developers. I don't think I was being singled out for any reason personal or not so to me it reflects a disconnect in stances among what is acceptable.
So maybe it is mountains out of molehills but it became a mountain for me indeed but not out of my own choosing. I'd have preferred it to have remained a molehill. So long as it can be proclaimed that the official stance is that such actions are ok I'll shut up as at that point its evident that no one will be ordered to shut down a testing server.
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Who threatened you with that? :P Win for PR!...
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Guess.
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Ah crap, Induane - sorry to hear. I won't be able to guess who it was, but IMO that's a load of silly. I'll see if I can get some official statement for you guys.
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I'll see if I can get some official statement for you guys.
Please do. I was told from an insider that the content couldn't be used on a public server, but a private server was fine. This may be a serious problem in case someone like IBM becomes interested in PlaneShift again (http://www.hreonline.com/HRE/story.jsp?storyId=9719662).
...IMO that's a load of silly.
Also, I do agree to an extent, the whole point of using open standards for proprietary content is so people can tear apart the game and see how it works.
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Perhaps a better suggestion would be a slight modification to the license itself. Since it seems that running your own server for screenshots, etc, is acceptable then why not have a usage policy on using the art to connect to a private server, the bounds of which that can be done in, etc. You could make it clear in the license that its ok to connect to a different server for testing purposes as well as exploratory and experimental purposes. It doesn't seem to go against the spirit of it all as a whole anyways so rather than encourage people to violate the license because the way its being violated isn't of any real concern, why not just expand the license so that its ok in the first place? It just seems like it would be a pretty simple addition and then people could toy with that sort of thing to their hearts content!
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I don't see a license change coming anytime soon officially allowing private servers being run by anyone, simply because the idea of the license is to have one consistent world with everyone playing on, to avoid a "split of societies" (like what you mentioned with your guild).
I wouldn't be too strict with the interpretation of the rules however myself when it comes to screenshots to show off the nice art of PS.
On the other hand, over a private server it's also possible to make screenshots of maps etc. and use them as spoiler which we certainly don't want (public).
From my understanding, Induane's comments are right. The license forbids the usage of private servers in general, with specific exceptions - those servers that are "licensed by Atomic Blue" which can be any on which the board of directors and members of AB agreed with.
I'd think testers and devs have a "general license" as in "note of understanding" by the AB people to run private servers to do what they need.
From this point of view encouraging people to run private servers without agreement from the rest of the devs and directors is wrong, but telling about the possibility to take screenshots this way for the benefit of PS.. shouldn't be a "bannable offense" :sorcerer:
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The license forbids the usage of private servers in general, with specific exceptions - those servers that are "licensed by Atomic Blue" which can be any on which the board of directors and members of AB agreed with.
How does one go about obtaining such a license? Because it is unclear how to do this. This would be a good thing to know, in case one would want to set up, say, a corporate intranet server to have their online meetings in. This is sad, Second Life made it onto the front of the Omaha World-Herald (http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10280952) this week because the university I attend is using it instead of PlaneShift for this sort of thing.
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Ask the board of directors: Talad, Vengeance, Acraig. They have the final word in license issues, but normally things are discussed and voted on (semi-democratically) amongst the devs before a final decision is taken.
However, for such things like meetings you can always create your own little world and character models (maybe ask Arianna if she contributes the models she made for her project Virtual Anneloev?).
Then you're independant completely from the AB license, only bound to the GPL of the engine.
Btw, I've also thought of using PS for meetings before, especially for educational purposes on my (tele-) university.
I think it'd even work out if some functionality externally is provided (upload and sharing of files) and some minor things like copy&paste are implemented.
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If that is the case, (and I'm not taking your word as official yet, Kerol) then that needs to be more clear. As of now, pages such as those on the website (http://www.planeshift.it/license.html) and on the forums (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23915.0) are geared towards intimidating some 18 year old and his buddies from making a working copy of Laanx overnight and mentions nothing about becoming a server licensed by Atomic Blue. It is obvious now that there are people who have asked the same question for vastly different reasons and were given a totally different answer than the one they were looking for. The reason is that up until now, we have gone under the assumption that everyone who has asked this question was an 18 year old who just wanted his own version of Laanx, but I have shown otherwise.
Sorry for this being off-topic in respect to the original post of Steel Blue screenshots but this has to be said. Not every Fortune 1000 company is a game studio, and not every university is interested in teaching people how to use blend2crystal.
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As of now, pages such as those on the website and on the forums are geared towards intimidating some 18 year old and his buddies from making a working copy of Laanx overnight
True.
mentions nothing about becoming a server licensed by Atomic Blue.
Doesn't mean that one could not ask the license holder (AB) for an exception.
The reason is that up until now, we have gone under the assumption that everyone who has asked this question was an 18 year old who just wanted his own version of Laanx
I didn't assume that.
In fact it's nearly impossible to get a copy of the Laanx DB if it's not an emergency.
By now we have a test server aside of Laanx and it took months of discussion to get to the point where a copy of laanx on the testserver is considered a viable option. What you get with a blank private server is simply the opportunity to move around in the game art, that comes along with your client and make screenshots and movies, nothing more.
Arianna managed to make models, maps and other game data for her diploma more or less alone within one year, and she had to learn how to do everything, as well. Don't tell me a university or company couldn't do that in less time with more people at hand.
The other way is to pay for second life (and still have to learn how to include art if you need additional stuff).
On topic: I can ask my GMs to take screenshots during events in new territory, so you also see some action.