PlaneShift

Gameplay => Guilds Forum => Topic started by: JWarlord on March 11, 2008, 10:13:35 pm

Title: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 11, 2008, 10:13:35 pm
"The Independent Journalists Group"
"Presents: The Quill"
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2830/quillpenbj5.png)


Goals: The primary task of the group is assembling and distributing the "Quill"he newest newspaper of Yliakum.

Rules
1. Anybody can join.
2. IC Advertising in the Newspapers IS allowed! PM me if interested
3. Only people who signed up can write articles/edit or distribute.

The Name of Organization
The Independent Journalists Group

Current Newspapers:
  • The Quill: Hydlaa's newspaper. Good. Public. Not Against or Pro Octarchy

Place to Put It
The Quill Homepage (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/)

To join
First Contact me in ANY way! PM, Email, Chat, IC anything. Then start creating those newsitems!

Still Needed
I will still need some back-up for management and organizational help
More detail.
Get PR'ing


The Group

Journalists
None Yet!

Planners & Organizers
JWarlord (Rotho Rockclimber)



Join The Independant Journalists Group and start writing for our very first newspaper!

Support the cause! Send in articles or money

Join: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31856.0)
Read: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31858.0)
Advertise: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31857.0)
Homepage of: The Quill! (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/)
NEW! DOWNLOAD The Quill! Edition 1 (1.4MB) (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/The Quill - Edition 1.pdf)
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Jords on March 12, 2008, 12:10:25 am
I'd like to be a journalist!
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 12, 2008, 12:17:22 am
Added to the list.

Please create a small article in this Topic (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31858.0) for further acceptance.


If needed you can ask for a 50Tria Loan

Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Suno_Regin on March 12, 2008, 08:17:59 pm
Now that's just pathetic. You're using your alt forum account to volunteer to join the guild that you yourself are creating. Are you REALLY that desperate? This is reminding me of when Zanzibar used an alt forum account to agree with his own point he was trying to make in an argument. I mean, this is a nice idea, but now I think you're just opening the doors for flame. Are you ever going to stop forming events/guilds?
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Earl_Listbard on March 12, 2008, 08:27:20 pm
Quote from: Suno_Regin on March 12, 2008, 08:17:59 pm
Now that's just pathetic. You're using your alt forum account to volunteer to join the guild that you yourself are creating. Are you REALLY that desperate? This is reminding me of when Zanzibar used an alt forum account to agree with his own point he was trying to make in an argument. I mean, this is a nice idea, but now I think you're just opening the doors for flame. Are you ever going to stop forming events/guilds?

LOLHAHA.... wait zanzy really did that once? Lol....
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 12, 2008, 08:49:22 pm
Wha?

You think Jords and I are the same person?

Lolz at that
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: hitancrias on March 14, 2008, 12:23:06 am
Good luck with this idea. I hope you find enough people who are willing to participate.

@ Suno: Why do you assume JWarlords and Jords are the same person?
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Suno_Regin on March 14, 2008, 12:25:16 am
Too convenient of timing, I guess.
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Sevis on March 14, 2008, 07:56:39 am
I like the idea, but the way you are organising the flow of money seems very strange. I would propose:
Add a scribe. One article can be sold many times, and editors/journalists have better things to do than copy it. Could be part of the distributors job, though.
Also, I would consider the following cycle more effective:
- The planner/organiser gives the journalist 50 tria
- The journalist buys paper, and writes an article, returns it to the planner/organiser and gets some amount of tria (200?)
- The planner/organiser chooses an editor and gives him the article
- The editor edits it, and gives it back, recieving his pay (250 tria?)
- The planner/organiser gives the article, the needed amount of paper, and a small sum of money (5 tria/copy?) to the scribe, who copies it and gives it to a distributor.
- The distributor sells the newspaper at a chosen price (see lower), comes back to the planner, and gives him the money he got for them, minus his pay (10 tria/sale?).
- Process repeats

For the price, I would propose 90 trias. This means that an article would bring profit after 20 copies are sold, which seems quite possible to me.

Oh, and does the buisness accept investments?
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 14, 2008, 03:18:37 pm
Quote from: Sevis on March 14, 2008, 07:56:39 am
I like the idea, but the way you are organizing the flow of money seems very strange. I would propose:
Add a scribe. One article can be sold many times, and editors/journalists have better things to do than copy it. Could be part of the distributors job, though.
Also, I would consider the following cycle more effective:
- The planner/organiser gives the journalist 50 tria
- The journalist buys paper, and writes an article, returns it to the planner/organiser and gets some amount of tria (200?)
- The planner/organiser chooses an editor and gives him the article
- The editor edits it, and gives it back, recieving his pay (250 tria?)
- The planner/organiser gives the article, the needed amount of paper, and a small sum of money (5 tria/copy?) to the scribe, who copies it and gives it to a distributor.
- The distributor sells the newspaper at a chosen price (see lower), comes back to the planner, and gives him the money he got for them, minus his pay (10 tria/sale?).
- Process repeats

For the price, I would propose 90 trias. This means that an article would bring profit after 20 copies are sold, which seems quite possible to me.

Oh, and does the business accept investments?

Although I very much like the idea of me actually earning some cash out of this ;) and that this sounds like a very good idea, I still need to think about it. These are my concerns:

Think of the horror if we actually want to add 10 very small RP stories. Do you know where to find 200 people to sell to? (at 90each)

So I don't think scribes are a good idea. Or the price for a newspaper should go up. Or we should ask the Octarchy for free paper. Or we need to create our own paper.

If the prices are:

(Underlines shows what's different from the top one)

And what if inflation kicks in with such a small margin? It would make a very fragile business...


We do accept investments, but not at this point. I would be glad to give you 3Trias per newspaper sold if you gave us the cash to support new journalists or to buy paper, but we are not yet at the correct stage at this time. First we actually need to get this Megaras flying.
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Sevis on March 14, 2008, 03:43:57 pm
Quote
Self-sustainability - In my version everybody pays everybody, and still gets a profit. You get the job done and you get paid. It can actually be done without a Planner. Unlike your plan. The Planner needs to be around to receive and give money 24/7. While this will be very possible when there are for example 3 or more planners/cashiers, in this early stage it's impossible for me to do that kind of work. Either getting trustworthy treasurers or doing all those paper/cash transactions

Well, you could say 6pm - 8pm GMT is when you do all the giving/taking. I mean, it's not like you want articles to be published every half an hour...

Quote
Article Costs - 500 Tria per article is pretty much. What if I want 3 articles in my newspaper? I need to sell 13 more newspapers to make that just as profitable as a newspaper with one article(1000 Tria profit, with your price)

Well, you'll have 1500 + 75n costs (scribes would probably earn triple, because it's three articles), so at my price 100 sales would be needed. However, for three articles you could charge more too, for example 150 tria, meaning you'd make profit again after you sell 20.

Quote
Scribe Costs - 5Tria per newspaper doesn't cut it. Paper still costs 50each. So that would mean 55 costs per newspaper(or else there's a -50 loss, from my pockets) meaning I'll have to sell 20 newspapers to BREAK-EVEN, and 40 to make a 1000 Tria Profit. Now that's har. And I'm not even counting in the 3 articles per newspaper. If I would have to sell 60 newspapers to break-even if I did. (Yes, 60 to break-even.)

When did I say anything about 1000 tria profit? I said 20 are needed to break even. For my first example, for 1000 tria profit you'd need 60, and for my second 33.(3).

Quote
If the prices are:

190 Each, 3 Articles per Newspaper, 55 Scribe costs -> 20 Newspapers sold = 1000 Profit
140 Each, 1  Article per Newspaper, 55 Scribe costs -> 20 Newspapers = 1000 Profit
140 Each, 3 Articles per Newspaper, 5 Scribe costs, Free paper -> 20 Newspapers 1000 profit
90 Each, 1 Article per Newspaper, 5 Scribe costs, Free paper -> 20 Newspapers = 1000 Profit

(Underlines shows what's different from the top one)

Please specify how much you pay the journalists, editors and distributors.

In my example, I said that the paper comes from your pocket, or more likely from the profit from the previous newspaper.

Quote
Think of the horror if we actually want to add 10 very small RP stories. Do you know where to find 200 people to sell to?

You don't have to pay the journalists equally for every type of article, not to mention that you could pay the editors 250 per paper, not per article.

Quote
So I don't think scribes are a good idea. Or the price for a newspaper should go up. Or we should ask the Octarchy for free paper. Or we need to create our own paper.

Who will rewrite it then? Don't forget, it'll add on to how much you pay them. Although, now that I think of how it will look, perhaps it's correct to add this into the editors part, perhaps pay the editor 100 + 5n tria?

Quote
We do accept investments, but not at this point. I would be glad to give you 3Trias per newspaper sold if you gave us the cash to support new journalists or to buy paper, but we are not yet at the correct stage at this time. First we actually need to get this Megaras flying

Well, I'll gladly donate a few thousand trias to get it up and running, although I first want to see some sort of work going on.
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 14, 2008, 04:44:34 pm
Quote from: Sevis on March 14, 2008, 03:43:57 pm
Well, you could say 6pm - 8pm GMT is when you do all the giving/taking. I mean, it's not like you want articles to be published every half an hour...
Yes, but it's hard to make everybody come at the same location(for example, I want the newspaper in the Bronze doors too) , same time (I'm GMT +1, you?), right amounts of articles/papers(I made 4 articles! I did 18!) and right amount per article paper (5 Tria? 80? Was it you who needed 100?)

Quote
Well, you'll have 1500 + 75n costs (scribes would probably earn triple, because it's three articles), so at my price 100 sales would be needed. However, for three articles you could charge more too, for example 150 tria, meaning you'd make profit again after you sell 20.
Well I thought Scribes[Printers] just copy paper to paper. Editors should get the triple pay since they make the final copy. They put together the articles to a final version. But still. This is the correct math right?

(Copy this to excel)
Code: [Select]
One Article Articles Bought Cash
Article -50 1 -150
Journalist -200 1 -600
Edit Fee
Editor -250 1 -250
Copies Sold
Scribe -55 20 -1100
Distributor -10 20 -200
Sale 90 20 1800
Profit 0

   
Quote
When did I say anything about 1000 tria profit? I said 20 are needed to break even. For my first example, for 1000 tria profit you'd need 60, and for my second 33.(3).

Apparently I did something wrong :) I guess the above is correct? It's just one article though


Quote
Please specify how much you pay the journalists, editors and distributors.

Journalists get 250 Total (200 for article, 50 for clean paper)
Editor gets 250 total (250 one time fee.)
Scribe gets 55 Per Copied Paper(Not for article. 50 for empty paper, 5 profit)
Distributor gets 10 per sold Paper

So eh: 250 + (250*A) + 65*n = X! or C + V1*A + V2*n = X!

C = Constant
V1 = Costs for Article
V2 = Costs for Newspaper
A = Articles per Newspaper
n = Newspapers
X! = Price * n = Critical eh. Output? (Lol, I only know the dutch word) AKA Breakeven.

That's 500...no wait. Damn, editors doesn't get's paid per article. 250 per article(Variable). 250 Constant per paper + 250*NArticles

Variables are 250 for journalist, 55 for scribe and 10 for dist.

So We always pay a lucky Editor 250. Then it's 250*NNew Newspaper + 250*Articles 5+50*NCopied Newspaper+10*Sold Newspaper

Quote
In my example, I said that the paper comes from your pocket, or more likely from the profit from the previous newspaper.

So I need to top the current price with another 50 to make sure I can buy the next batch of newspapers?

Quote
You don't have to pay the journalists equally for every type of article, not to mention that you could pay the editors 250 per paper, not per article.

True, Good articles = good money and bad articles = bad money. Point taken :) And Editors 250 per a single paper. it would be nonsense to give multiple editors 250 for every copy if only one checks it and posts in on the Internet, for example. First one in is the winner.

Quote
Who will rewrite it then? Don't forget, it'll add on to how much you pay them.


Distributer can multi task. They'll probably will do it anyway. I'm almost out of stock, let's get new paper! No Scribe needed

Quote
Well, I'll gladly donate a few thousand trias to get it up and running, although I first want to see some sort of work going on.

Well money I actually have :) I have 4,000 to get it running ;) If that isn't enough I'm doing something wrong and I'll knock at your address xD

Oh yeah, and somebody had a great idea: Advertising! Buy a spot in the newspaper for 1000 and the issue will be way cheaper/everybody gets more money!


(PS: Sorry for some of the mistakes in my calculations xD It is nice to talk to someone about this :P Economics FTW)
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Sevis on March 14, 2008, 05:15:04 pm
Sales don't have to be 6-8, just the planner being availible.

I'm GTM+1 too (I'm in the Netherlands as well :P)

As for the math:

J+E+Sn+Dn = C
sn - C = P

J - journalist's pay
E - editor's pay
S - scribe's pay/item
D - Distributor's pay/item
C - Cost
s - sold
P - profit
n - items

Meaning, to have P > 0, we need sn > C, so sn > J+E+Sn+Dn+P

I don't have excel right now, so can't work there, unfortunately.

We need to seperate what is "pay" and what is working funds. For example, you propose we give copiers 55 tria so they could buy paper - however, it would seem far more logical to me to simply provide them with paper.

However, economy doesn't really matter right now, seeing as we don't know how popular it will be. A more important matter is social aspects.

You said something about the articles being put on the web - this seems very strange to me. Why would you publish them for free, if you want them to be in-game?
Another thing is somebody copying and reselling the paper. We can't do much about this, but I hope it'll work out. Free paper would increase this, so I'd say we should start out like we are. The amount you pay for various jobs should also depend on how much you get youself - a serious flaw in your example is that nobody really earns anything, seeing as 5-15 tria is nothing in game terms.

Advertisements are a good idea, but perhaps not so expensive. It would indeed bring a lot of money though.
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 14, 2008, 05:47:58 pm
Yes, but that is with the selling price being 80each. I've heard that some people eager to even pay 250 per paper! That's an extra 120 Tria to split ;)

With the Scribes not being self-sufficient somebody needs to bring them paper. Logistically very hard, not to mention the people we have to pay to bring that paper around. If they get the money to buy their own papers they can do what they do, non-stop, without having to wait for the empty-paper boy.

Actually, if the only job a Scribe has is copying, we could let distributors do that. That kicks out another logistically difficult link in the system. (Scribes waiting for Distributors, for example)

Putting -some- on the web in a early stage is purely for advertising this. That's how it looks like. It won't be on it forever. Maybe I'll post up some old items for the Archive but that's it ;)

But anyway. Where to find some paper? xD
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 16, 2008, 01:27:11 pm
Still we need Journalists and Distributors!


Earn 110 Tria per sold unwritten book to us!
Earn 150-500 Tria per article sold to us!
Earn 150 Tria per sold newspaper to the people!
Join the Independant Journalists Group and start writing for our very first newspaper!
The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31856.0)

Code: [Select]
Costs Articles Bought   Cash
Journalist -300 3 -900 (Newspaper costs added. Newspaper costs -> Journalist costs)

Edit Fee
Planner 0 1 0 (Editor = Planner. No Costs)

Copies Sold     
Distributor    -150 9 -1350 (Scribe = Distributor. Costs to Distributor)
Sale  250 9 2250

Gross Profit 2250
Costs -2250
Advertisements? ?
Net Profit 0

9 Copies at 250 Tria to Break even. Less Copies or Lower Price to Break even if we get some Adverts Going on :D
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 26, 2008, 11:27:38 pm
Guess what! We STILL we need Journalists and Distributors!

Earn extra MONEY and FAME per sold newspaper to the people!
Write anything you want! Interviews, Articles, Rants, Advertisements ANYTHING! I'll post it up!



Join The Independant Journalists Group and start writing for our very first newspaper!

Support the cause! Send in articles or money

Join: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31856.0)
Read: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31858.0)
Advertise: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31857.0)
Homepage of: The Quill! (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/)
NEW! DOWNLOAD The Quill! Edition 1 (1.4MB) (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/The Quill - Edition 1.pdf)
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: Taniquetil on March 27, 2008, 06:03:19 am
a great idea, but could use some work to make it reality

Quote from: Suno_Regin on March 12, 2008, 08:17:59 pm
Now that's just pathetic. You're using your alt forum account to volunteer to join the guild that you yourself are creating. Are you REALLY that desperate? This is reminding me of when Zanzibar used an alt forum account to agree with his own point he was trying to make in an argument. I mean, this is a nice idea, but now I think you're just opening the doors for flame. Are you ever going to stop forming events/guilds?

why so anti-RP?
Title: Re: [ORGANIZATION] Independent journalists
Post by: JWarlord on March 27, 2008, 12:49:00 pm
Quill Edition 1(27th March 2008) is out!

Join The Independant Journalists Group and start writing for our very first newspaper!

Support the cause! Send in articles or money

Join: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31856.0)
Read: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31858.0)
Advertise: The Quill! (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31857.0)
Homepage of: The Quill! (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/)
NEW! DOWNLOAD The Quill! Edition 1 (1.4MB) (http://www.freewebs.com/the-quill/The Quill - Edition 1.pdf)