PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sangwa on April 21, 2008, 08:27:44 am
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Phinehas came to me a while ago with an idea: making a thread where we would include the general RP concepts we collected around. I gave it some thought and considered it something very important to do. However, I hadn't had the chance to start digging into it like I have now (since my PS time was previously reserved for working on DE's constitution ^^).
So the idea here is to ask people what they think about roleplay and some of its situations, so we can make a kind of "protocol" (a sort of set of guidelines we agree to) for the community. I don't think we'll have much trouble, since I've seen many people agree on several points.
This thread will only be part of the collecting manoeuvre, as I will go in-game as well to ask some people about their opinions. The names of those that contribute (and agree with the final result) are to be added to the text. This might not come to happen if it gets too confusing though (i.e. if there's any issues with it.)
I should claim right now that this protocol will obviously not be forced upon anyone, but it could be used by guilds and players that agree to it to form a more united RP community; in other words avoid that RPers ignore each other for lack of consistency of RP practise.
So what I want you to speak your mind about is:- IC/OOC chatting (tabs, OOC chat, correct typing, etc.);
- How to respect other characters;
- How to respect the settings;
- About roleplayed fighting;
- About "complementing the system" where it lacks;
- About Death and its Roleplaying;
- How to use information (in the forums, in the website, etc.) & Metagaming;
- More (I might have forgotten something to add here.)
I hope this is enough to get you started. If it isn't, I'll certainly try to add what you think is missing!
Here's what I got up until now. Comment on wording, on usefulness and on the accuracy. See if it is missing anything and tell me what! This is not meant to be a final product, but if you like it like it is, be sure to tell me anyway. It's important to get support for this, so we can guarantee everyone's ideas are around, or at least that these ideas are able to be agreed to.
I'll make the styling better sooner or later :P.
Community RP Guide Lines
Introduction
Herein is a set of guide-lines meant to give you an idea of how the community enjoys playing PlaneShift to its fullest. It's meant to let you have a great experience playing PS, by learning basic concepts about RolePlaying and using PlaneShift's system properly. It has some examples meant to let you know preferred standards and discouraged practices.
Note that these guide-lines are not enforced by GM's and must not be enforced by any player. It depends only on your will to roleplay with everyone else. You can spread these guide-lines if you wish, but remember: no one's here to impose.
Please enjoy!
Roleplaying...
... in PlaneShift is defined as the possibility to live in the world of Yliakum, taking part of its day to day life and its intriguing story, embodying the personality and the body of a character you create. In order to do this you just need some imagination and to stay "in-character", or in other words, to immerse in the fantasy setting and play it as if you were your character.
Don't worry! This doesn't mean that you'll have to sit around speaking with people all day and saying "thou"! There are as many types of characters as you can think of, and some don't want to do anything else but mine, for example.
Note: As you read through this manual you will require to have present two important concepts: When we say something is In Character (abbreviated as "IC") it means that this something is happening in the virtual world of PlaneShift. Oppositely when something is claimed to be "Out of Character" (OOC) it means that this is happening outside the setting of PlaneShift.
Examples:- Saying that a sword is Q100 is out of character. Within the the virtual world people do not know what Q100 means.
- /me sips his mug.
This action is IC;
This action is OOC , characters can't watch TV because there's no such thing as TV;
- Chatting in IRC is OOC;
- Using the main tab properly is staying IC.
Respecting The Settings
It is very important that everyone knows what the setting (the general history and logic behind this fantasy world) is about. This can only be done if you check the website and inform yourself about the economy, the several races and the world's history and shape. This should give you a feel of the creative world of Yliakum.
Keep in mind that your character will be an inhabitant of this world, just like every other character played out by a player, but with it's own agenda and attitude.
This doesn't mean you get to make up anything you want for him or her though... The attributes of your character are defined when you create it and then improved as you go about interacting with the world. So you shouldn't consider your character is faster, nastier and in general more powerful than it really is! Just make sure it is unique and fair to the setting and everyone else. This way everyone will come to like it wholly: flaws and talents included.
A Good Example to follow:
"Telia is a young dermorian of fair traits. Before arriving to Hydlaa she was fostered by the leaders of an Enkidukai tribe and that made her an impressive hunter, but also a bit unaccustomed to interacting with cityfolk."
Dermorian is a race supported by the system. So all's fine! In the character creation there is the option to have belonged to an Enkidukai tribe, so nothing wrong there. It also lets you decide if your parents were famous or not. That could explain her foster parents being the leaders of the tribe.
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
"Falgazar is a very mean looking Ynnwn. Sometimes when he gets mad his horns grow, his eyes become fiery and his skin becomes black as the surroundings are swallowed by a darkness that consumes all. That's because when he was young he was possessed by a spirit of a powerful demon."
Well, Ynnwns can look mean and they do exist. So that part is okay. However, there is no way the system and the setting support or will ever support metamorphosis! And there's no such things as demons or spirits covered by the settings... So this character shouldn't exist.
Respecting the Players
Roleplaying is very subjective. People want to do all sorts of stuff to make it fun, but there's just no way you can go around doing what you want boundlessly without annoying other people. For this reason, when you interact with other people make sure you leave space for them to decide as well. And make sure you both agree on the outcome. This guide will tell you how later on "Complementing the Settings".
Using The System Properly
PlaneShift's game system is an innovative and very interesting set of mechanics, programmed by very hard working kind people that keep tuning it to adapt to the needs of the players. However it is still not fully developed and as such we need to know how to use it with responsibility, so everyone can keep roleplaying and having fun! You can even help testing the game better if you're enjoying yourself while finding out what is missing. Make sure to report bugs to the bugtracker and to request new features here at the forums.
Chatting
It is important that you type correctly and without errors, respecting the writing rules. However you don't have to make amends to your character's speech every time you make a typographic error or misplace a word. Other players will overlook most errors and if they don't, you could play it as if there was a communication problem, like a muffled sound, and have your character repeat. The best policy is to make sure you've typed well before pressing enter!
The chat window contains several tabs. Each of them has its use and you should make your best to respect it, so you might communicate properly with the other players.
Main: In this tab you should constantly be in-character. However, some rare times you need to explain something OOC to the players reading. We ask that you use /tell to explain Out Of Character details as much as possible.
Some circumstances require a fast communication to several players at once though and since in PlaneShift there is no OOC general Tab, you will have to identify your chat as being OOC. It's usually done by using brackets "(),[],{} or \\" or by adding "OOC:" before the text.
A Good Example to follow:
Thelvor says: I heard the dark rogues were attacking Oja!
Gelzir says: Me too, and I even saw their leader.
Gelzir says: (Sorry! That what was with another character, please ignore the last sentence...)
Gelzir says: Dark times indeed...
Gelzir's player had to be fast to warn the others he made a mistake.
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
Thelvor says: any1 has a Q100 sword?
Thelvor says: i broke my last 1
Thelvor says: lolz, I jus got a tell with som guy asking me to be IC!
Thelvor is not even trying to type well and he is using OOC tems like "Q100" and "IC."
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
Thelvor says: Hydlaa has many wonders Gelzir, you can't be so pessimistic.
Gelzir says: (My character wasn't being pessimistic.)
Thelvor says: ("This city is no longer safe." sounds pessimistic to me.)
Gelzir says: (No, it just means Hydlaa isn't safe. It can still be fun.)
Thelvor says: (Yeah, whatever.)
Thelvor and Gelzir are engaging in a discussion that doesn't matter anyone else. And they're flooding the main chat with it! These guys should use /tell for this.
Tell: Tells are considered OOC, unless your character is standing next to the character you are speaking with through the /tell command. We advise that when you use this you also type "/me whispers" in the Main tab, as most characters would notice someone whispering.
Auction: These are IC shouts from merchants advertising their products. This tab should be treated like the Main Tab and only for the purpose of trading.
Guild: What happens here is of the responsibility of each guild and again it should be used as OOC.
Group: What happens here is of the responsibility of each group. In some situations it could be used as a whispered conversation, if all members are next to each other. In this case it is asked that players type emotes (/me) in the main chat and that they type "/me whispers" at least at the beginning of the conversation.
The rest of the tabs have obvious uses.
Fighting between Players
The game system makes it that you have to propose a fight and the other player must accept it in order to engage in Player versus Player (PvP) fighting. This is because players should always agree on the outcome of actions and as such there should be some context that leads to a fight between characters.
A Good Example to follow:
"Mercula's travelling to Oja when out of the blue Sheridor appears. He claims that he won't let Mercula pass unless she hands him all her belongings. Mercula makes a run for it, but ends up in a dead end. She refuses giving her goods to the end and she'd rather fight than lose them."
Player 2 playing Sheridor proposes Player 1 playing Mercula a fight and he accepts because his character had no way to run.
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
Player A is travelling with his character in Hydlaa. He finds Player B and proposes a fight randomly, just to have fun. Player B obviously denies! There was simply no context whatsoever.
Currently the fighting system is not picturesque enough to please every player. For this reason some players enjoy making up the combat themselves, resorting to emotes (/me action) to provide an intense fight for both to read. Using the PvP system is still advised to find out the outcome beforehand (choose not to kill), so both players can roleplay the combat accordingly (in the end the defeated player can type /die if that is the case). Some players prefer to agree beforehand on the result and not use the fighting system. What can't happen is not deciding beforehand, or the fight might become endless or ignored half the way through.
Another problem that arises is that not all types of characters/movements are implemented yet. We still advise you to train your character accordingly. You should fill in a Wish at the Wheel of Wishes asking for what you think should be implemented in this area and until it gets implemented you can count on the good will of other players to let you roleplay your character... Or avoid getting into trouble!
Death
The Death Realm is still too small and the penalties for dying are not well developed. This should be a place of turmoil and long penance, so make sure your character is frightened enough not to get in there. And that he or she does not use it as a travelling means or quickly gets out of it to take revenge on an unsuspecting enemy.
A Good Example to follow:
"A dwarf named Polthiz was travelling when he fell in a hole. He cursed his blood luck loudly, but a bit too loudly as he soon came to understand. Two large consumers, whose interest was piqued by the screaming, quickly fed on him.
Finding himself in the Death Realm, Polthiz panics. He takes days to find the exit, costing him his good humour and sunny face for weeks."
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
"Herthaz and Zarit are fighting fiercely. After a while, Zarit strikes a fast, clean cut with his dagger at Herthaz' neck, slaying his gambling opponent.
A while later Herthaz appears again and jumps at Zarit from behind, stabbing him in the lungs."
A while later? It's the Death Realm! You can't just get out of there in a second like nothing happened.
Complementing the System
Throughout this guide you have heard that players should agree with the outcome of certain roleplayed actions. This is because the game currently does not support for every type of action, so players must bring on themselves to agree on how these should be played out. Two strategies are advised, depending on the situation:- When doing something the system does not support, make sure to leave room for the other person to play. If both easily agree with the outcome, then the action flows the way both players agreed.
A Good Example to follow:
Jarthul tries to slap Elpra. (Player one types in the main chat /me tries to slap Elpra)
Elpra gets slapped across the face and starts to bleed from the nose. (Player two types in the main chat /me gets slapped across the face and starts to bleed from the nose.)
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
Jarthul slaps Elpra across the face, making him bleed from the nose. (Player one types in the main chat /me slaps Elpra across the face, making him bleed from the nose.)
In this example Player one didn't give Player two any chance to play! This is wrong!
- When players do not agree on the outcome (previously or after, though previously is preferred. When you think someone won't accept, do ask.), a dice test could be agreed to and then used.
A Good Example To Follow:
Jathrul tries to slap Elpra. (Player one types in the main chat /me tries to slap Elpra)
Elpra evades the slap. (Player two types in the main chat /me evades the slap. However, player one doesn't agree. They both agree that he'd have a chance of hitting Elpra, based on an opposed test of agility. They choose to roll a 1d100 dice each, then add each's agi value to it. With a roll of 53 + 100 vs 64 + 60, Elpra wins. So they settle with what happened.)
A Bad Example, to be avoided:
Not bending to others and requesting rolls all the time can make the game too slow and bother players. So be sure to be fair!
Meta-gaming
Meta-gaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed rule-set, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. In other words, sometimes using out-of-game information to affect one's in-game decisions.
--Wikipedia
In a RP game meta-gaming is very harmful, as it distorts plots, making the game very incoherent. We ask players to avoid meta-gaming. Here are some examples of meta-gaming actions:- IC use of information acquired OOC (An example is to use alternative characters [in PlaneShift one account can have 4 characters] to acquire IC information from a guild and then use that information with another alternative character, even though there was no IC information exchange.);
- Abuse of bugs to empower your character (Example: Bugs that replicate items or money);
- Abuse of bugs to slow down/increase game speed (Example: mass casting spells like Vortex, which slows down the game.);
- Abuse of camera views (example: using camera view to see through walls);
- Abuse of OOC speech (example: calling for help OOC when your character is in a situation).
Unfortunately not all players see the benefits of respecting the setting and other players. The Game Moderators have currently no authority to moderate RP, so we ask that you simply ignore inconsistent roleplayers. Any type of harassment (walking through your character repeatedly, etc.) can be reported to the moderating authorities.[/list]
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Interesting idea.. lets see how will it evolve.
IC/OOC chatting (tabs, OOC chat, correct typing, etc.);
- Main tab I use IC the very most of time. There may be some distractions wrapped in brackets now and then, mostly due to laughs, which always gets directed back to IC chat soon though.
- Tells I mostly use oocly, except for whispers. The latter is not occuring frequently, still though I always mark my ooc-tells with brackets, for leaving no doubt about it.
- Group-chat depends on the situation, of course.
- Correct typing, hm.. I appreciate people caring for typo-less wording, in only rare occasions I consider it "interrupting" when people correct their typos by appended ooc remarks.
Tweaking (not respecting other players' roleplay);
- If people ignore my roleplay, or even godmod, needless to say I simply ignore them, solved. On the other hand, I usually respect other people's roleplay, even if I may consider it questionable. Points I may tend to ignore (or counter their play icly) would for instance be questionable use of setting that the same time conflicts with my stuff. Prominent example: Chars happily offering to take a short trip to the DR to find and lead out a recently died friend.
Godmodding (not respecting the settings);
- Basically I would say I see 2 types of "ignoring" the setting: Not giving a heck, and not knowing better. If the guiding roleplay makes me feel its the first case, I may get quiet, perhaps even shoot some excuse at some point and leave. The second type I generally see newbies in. They may not know better, try, and may commit mistakes. Some icish approach, like giving some hint, joking or mocking, usually rather soon shows up if the "godmodder" is worth putting efforts in, or wasted time.
Fighting & Roleplay;
- To me probably the most interesting point. I actually prefer to use rolling dices, basing on skill- and stat-levels. To not make it utterly complicated, just using level-faces. Exceptions I gladly make with chars already having a long, deep and known history. Newbies/Untrained chars coming and assuming they could roll same dices with me/my trained main char, I am not pleased with. After all I would consider myself rather tolerant when it comes to find an agreement on dices, so I would probably agree to my disadvantage than declining a roleplay fight.
My most criticizing point about it is, that there are many chars around, that roleplay doing trades, smithing or crafting etc the very most of their ingame time, when it comes to fighting though, they suddenly turn into "grand fighters". Such I consider ridiculous and mostly try to get away from soon enough. Also, lately I heard of a char being roleplayed (also by others) to be ultimate master (=maxed) of all weapon-types, a master of all ways plus a grand-cook. Since I know about such a "feature" I will take care to not get into any roleplayed conflict (nor other interactions) at all. The latter extreme example luckily I experienced to be a rare and exception.
System & Roleplay;
Not sure whats that meaning. I am just trying to not get limited by technical limitations when roleplaying.
More
I lately had an idea that, in my eyes, could enhance the whole atmosphere, namely individual chars, quite a bit. I thought about special features, figured for character "classes" or proficiencies. That could be the feature of shooting enchanted arrows for archers (ok, since magic, mostly elves=P), sweeping strikes (to hit several opponents at once) for professional fighters, stunning axe-blows for dwarven axefighters (foe would have to pause for a "round").. But not only battle-oriented stuff, also any other proficiency, like some "sharp nose" to detect ressources from far for passionated miners, great skill to read tracks, or ease in taming wild and shy animals.. the list is endless. Mind you, I am not talking about anything possible to be implemented into game-mechanics, but to have players add one very special feature to their char that accents its proficiency. The same time of course I wouldnt say such should be added right from scratch, but after having played out that char and according plots and stories for some time. Benefit, besides having more shaped out and accented chars, could just be giving ideas to people what the own char could be useful for.
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Too tired to make a cohesive post, so here is a somewhat cohesive link.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=28009.0
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I'll give my opinion now and then comment later (hehe in a hurry now too.)
Chatting:
This is how I see it works:
Correct typing is essential and players should be warned towards it by other players. It's worst bugging someone and ignoring someone for their inability to type properly than typing improperly though.
Main Tab: Only for RP. Occasional OOC remarks that need to be included for everyone nearby to listen should contain a obvious form of separation: brackets ((),[],\\,{}) or OOC:.
Guild & System Tabs: Completely OOC.
Group Tab: OOC, unless the whole group is nearby and engaging in a whispered conversation. For this to happen roleplayers should point out that they are whispering in Main Chat (e.g. "/me whispers" at the beginning of the conversation) and emotes (/me's) should also be included in the main chat.
Auction Tab: I can't understand the implementation of this tab. So I'll ignore it. (inconsistent with the implementation of /introduce)
Tell Tab: OOC, unless characters are nearby. It can be used to schedule meetings though, given that the character is an situation where it is plausible that he previously informed the person (within battles, calling for reinforcements through tells makes little sense.) Emotes (/me's) should be included in the main chat.
Tweaking:
Players must never use emotes that force another character into an action. (Example /me throws a stone at John and he gets hit, bleeding. opposed to: /me throws John a stone. /John gets hit by the stone.) When in doubt (i.e. when both players disagree on the result of an action) the dice system should be used to test some skill (dice testing to be developed) or to test a 50% probability of favoring one of the players.
Godmodding:
Characters should not roleplay out of the setting (/me is a spirit. [There is no race called spirit in PS]) or out of their characters' skills (i.e. /me casts a ball of hell fire against John. [My character has no red way levels though.])
Fighting & Roleplay
Fight results should result from system duels. The result should be roleplayed accordingly (it should barely reflect what you can see in the system. I've tried it out with Hwnae and it was a load of fun.)
A player should accept a duel when he thinks either his character wants to fight or has no chance but fighting.
(fill out later, gotta leave)
EDIT to Fighting & Roleplay and to continue:
System & Roleplay
The system is currently limited and as such it doesn't allow for some types of setting-friendly characters and actions. Roleplayers will sometimes want to do something that is not covered by the system. To this effect players should keep in mind their stats in some area. Using the dice system to test a result can also be an option (as long as both players agree on the fairness of the test, testing systems to be developed. Example: Bel and Nari are discussing in the tavern. The thing gets out of hand and Nari stabs Bel with a knife, causing instant death. Nari tries to run out the tavern before the guards listen, but they're too close. [test 1d100 -> 90 vs 95] Nari gets caught. Foolish of him to think he could escape the tavern with Allelia's screams and Jefreca's attention. The penalty for murder is death, so Nari is slain right there. <- Example of making up for systems about Hydlaa's Guard)
Death & Roleplay
I believe that characters who are killed and sent to the death realm should completely forget the cause of their death (and consequently their killer) because of the immense shock that is being killed. The Death Realm is not supposed to be a walk in the park either, so this character should remain there for the day (when slain by a player. This is to prevent foolish "oops" revenges... At least right away.)
Metagaming
Metagaming is what we call to the practice of not following RP logic in a RP game. This causes information issues (i.e. the use of information not acquired through RP) and should not happen. Acquiring information through forums, etc, is included here as a metagaming strategy (unless there are rules in the forum that explain its IC use reasonably).
Under the Moon, while the link your provided has nice hints, they're all very focused on the Sheeples and some pretty hard to transpose to general situations. I hope you complete your previous post with more information :D
Velh:
IC/OOC Chat:
Pretty much like what I have.
Tweaking/Godmodding:
Hehe, I was thinking more about guidelines to impede tweaking. Hehe, I'll change the main post to make that more understandable.
Fighting & Roleplay:
I don't agree much with dice tests for this, when the system is already about that. People who spend lots of time training deserve to kick ass. I do agree that someone who spends days training swords would forget a bit about magic, cooking and training (unless that person trained these other fields daily as well.) But that is not agreed by the setting, so we should respect that or change MMORPG :P
More:
I'm not sure about that. That's more a wish to make at the Wheel of Wishes than a guideline.
EDIT: Added info about Auction Tab. Improved example on tweaking.
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Interesting thread. I can see many benefits in its success. Of course, since this is an unofficial effort, be careful with the tiny little very nlikely chance that you will reach conclusions that might be in conflict with the game rules (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?board=45.0). Also, for the sake of efficiency, make sure you have read all available guides on RP, like this one here (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24025.0), so you don't end up with duplicates. And of course what we have in the Getting Started In-Game (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=21480.0) guide on Roleplay as well.
Now, my two cents:
I should claim right now that this protocol will obviously not be forced upon anyone, but it could be used by guilds and players that agree to it to form a more united RP community; in other words avoid that RPers ignore each other for lack of consistency of RP practise.
I completely agree with the statement above and I'd like to elaborate a little. I think it's very important to include something about correcting others' RP, i.e. being the RP police or RP Nazis. When this thread meets its objective you will have a very detailed list of do's and don't's and inevitably some players will try to enforce them on others and "teach" them how it's done. We already have this happening every now and then so having a protocol might increase the frequency in which this happens unless it is addressed (in which case we can hope for the opposite).
Players policing other players' RP should be frowned upon because it is disruptive, impolite, and very presumptuous. If you have suggestions, make sure they will be listened to by delivering them properly. Be polite, use private channels, and don't talk down on them. You will be far more successful if you do it with tact. Here are a few negative examples of how this is done sometimes:
- Player: Hi! :)
- RP Police: [don't use smileys!!! they are OOC!!!]
- Player: /me thinks that <player> had too much to drink
- RP Police: [how are we supposed to know what your character is thinking? we can't read minds]
- Player A: /shout You will pay for this! This city is ours!
- Player B: /shout [That's stupid. No guild owns the city!]
The corrected player can agree with you and change their RP but they can also, and more likely so, feel exposed and turn defensive and tell you to shut up. Next thing you know the main tab is filled with bracketed comments about good and bad roleplay and family member references, all IC chat is lost in the argument, you have a few new names in you /ignore list, and GMs are called in to sort out this "he said/she said" thing with "he's started it" arguments.
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Some additions:
Correct typing is essential and players should be warned
I know quite some people who arent that familiar with english, thus their correct typing can lack obviously. Thats where I see the difference (to people not caring), and I would want to make clear non-natives should be sure and feel relaxed about it, instead of intimidated (that some newbies in fact already do anyway).
Auction tab: I think its useful, especially when I think about trying to play at the Hydlaa plaza, while the Main-tab was flooded by shoutings (=Auction transported to main). Auction-tab I use the same way as if shouting in main, although only for matters of tradings. To have many people around that dont know your char, realistically, I would recommend to always be aware of. But adding a char's name in OOC brackets leads to a weird situation: Chars wouldnt be able to know about it, hence the whole auction would become OOC. So, have characters announce and advertize the trader's name as well ICly!
I don't agree much with dice tests for this, when the system is already about that. People who spend lots of time training deserve to kick ass
I am not sure how to understand this. If we would use rolling dices that represent the level's value, it would result right in that: kicking ass of trained chars over untrained ones (with the addition of a more picturous fight). Again, I would emphasize to have grinding included, but strictly required grinding could also kill a lot of interesting stories meant to be told.
At this point I wonder if Duraza would first have spent weeks to max out his char in Dark Way, or if your char, Sangwa, did treat Duraza like an untrained wimp?=P
My point is: For an exciting story I would ignore the mechanics. That of course anyone would have to decide for himself first, if to involve or not.
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I do not have too much to add to this discussion as most of the ideas are reasonable. I do have to take issue with error correction. To me there is noting (sic) more annoying than "*nothing." If I do not understand what you have said the first time, I can assume you swallowed a word and I did not hear you correctly or something similar and ask you to clarify. Correcting your typos on your own initiative is similar to god-modding in that you are assuming I am too dumb to understand what you said, plus it makes it look like your character has a speech impediment, stutters or whatever. I do not believe that is your intention but that is the effect.
There are plenty of in context reasons you can make for not hearing properly, drowned out by environmental noise like ulber roars or sudden gusts of wind; momentarily distracted by internal chatter like a sudden idea about an unrelated problem than has been distracting you; and whatever. You should allow the person to whom you are speaking to ask if they did not understand.
Now if that is part of the character you have developed go ahead and make corrections all you want. Generally speaking though I think it is OOC.
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you are assuming I am too dumb
Like me thanking would imply you are too dull to recognize my gratefulness? I meant it in a way of plain politeness, which I per se consider pleasant. On the other side, not correcting typos I wouldnt mind much either, I guess.
reasons you can make for not hearing properly
But wouldnt it be on me to decide if my char can hear your one's properly or not?
Hm.. now that I read this:
Generally speaking though I think it [correcting typos] is OOC.
Sorry, probably I just didnt point it out properly: I am not refering to corrections made without brackets, ones made in an ICish manner. Corrections like the mentioned ones of course would be wrapped in brackets.
Prolix, whats the way you are prefering when it comes to rp'ed fights?
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Velh: You can have a fight with the normal system, choose not to kill the oponent and then play it out afterwards. I think it's the most reasonable way.
About Auction Tab... Yeah. ^^
Prolix: I don't see anything wrong with correcting typos, mainly because I like to type well myself. I won't care until I've found enough people opposed to it though (just two until now. I remember someone else, very grumpy by the way, who had the same opinion.) Also, you shouldn't get insulted so easily, it's not good for your health.
Dajoji: The final document isn't meant to be a detailed list of do's and don't's.
This is meant to gather several thoughts about how to respect players, setting, system and how to treat death, chat types and fighting and turn them into a succinct, obvious set of guide-lines, easy to type down to other people, to comprehend and to see applied by the roleplayers who want to apply it.
I am not considering entering a part about teaching other people, though the final result will certainly contain a sentence warning against acting as a GM. I will ask people to advocate it though, since this is meant to become a community effort.
If the GM's keep moderating the game, I'm sure people won't be harassing other people in any way. With this I'm also sure we have a chance of improving the quality and quantity of roleplay, as it should make some people feel more secure in their roleplaying.
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Saying thank you is a social convention and is not particularly relevant to my comments. Certainly "assuming I am too dumb" is out of context and my objection is not extremely well formed. Using OOC corrections, as they are most commonly made, interrupts the immersiveness, if you will, no less than complete OOC discussions, more so because they come from people who should know better. If you are having an animated, in context, discussion you are necessarily limited by your typing speed and accuracy. The more animated the more likely the accuracy will be reduced. Making corrections as you go along decreases the already slow speed of discourse caused by textual, as opposed to verbal, conversation. It improves the dialog flow to just gloss over typos as one or two misspelled words is unlikely to obscure the meaning most of the time. In those cases where the listener does not understand he can ask. To me, typos can be put down to accent of pronunciation or other glitches of a verbal manner. If you are talking to someone in real life with a thick accent are you going to insist on proper enunciation for everything they say or will just just ask them to explain those things they say of which you cannot make any sense? Will it bother you if they repeat words several time with slightly different inflections? If I am talking to you and you hear me say about and is sounds like aboot because I am from Canada are you going to expect me to repeat it until I pronounce it the way you want? Not usually, I think. Rather you will tune your ear to know what I mean. This is what I suggest for typos, tune your eyes so that you know what is meant. Only sometimes do typos change the meaning to something completely different.
"not hearing properly:" You misread what I said probably due to the last sentence of that paragraph where the referent to the pronoun "you" changed from the listener to the speaker. I should have worded it better.
Typo corrections are little tiny injectable OOC bits that I think should be avoided.
As for role play fights, I never have them. Generally speaking I only fight mobs. I do think that anything that is implemented should be used in favor of imaginary methods. However if you want to have predetermined results perhaps the devs could implement a set of RP weapons that work the way the five ingot knives currently do due to a bug, that is, completely ineffectual, every attacked is blocked. That way you could have the appearance of a fight and after a time the "loser" could /yield. Even if it is not predetermined you could start the fight, run around, and work out the result in /me actions.
@sangwa I hope this is a bit better explanation. I am not so easily insulted. By the way was that other me (bilbous)? hehheh.
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Yes it was. You tricked me!
Typo corrections are little tiny injectable OOC bits that I think should be avoided.
This is true, but I don't see correcting as something disruptive because it has no meaning besides that associated to a wrong word in a sentence that belongs to the roleplay. It's usually not enough to start OOC discussions and it doesn't point anywhere else besides to a word you mistyped above. It's sad that it annoys you, but that's not enough to get me thinking we should add it as guide-line "do not correct your typos, they are your characters' speech disorders." However I do think it's a nice note to add that just because writing properly is advised, you don't have to correct every single typo afterwards, as long as you make sure you're doing your best not to make them.
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Not going to post my full thoughts yet (if I ever get around to it :P ) but this stuck out to me so I just wanted to comment on it quickly.
Death & Roleplay
I believe that characters who are killed and sent to the death realm should completely forget the cause of their death (and consequently their killer) because of the immense shock that is being killed.
I disagree. Especially if you were fighting someone and they killed you. Unless your suddenly forgetting 'all memory' then you should know who killed you. I mean if it's like someone stabbed you in the back and you couldn't get a look at their face it is different. I even believe that in one of the books written in Death Realm Londris mentions a bit about how he died. He remembers so why shouldn't we :P
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About corrections: they are unnecessary if you spend the time to look at what you have typed before you press enter. If it is important to be correct that is the proper procedure. One of the reasons it bothers me is
Isopraxis is behavior where people dress like their colleagues and adopt the beliefs, customs, and mannerisms of the people they admire or feel inferior too. Appearing, behaving, and acting the same way makes it easier to be accepted, looking alike suggests same views and feels safe.
If you keep doing it I feel I have to do it too.
About Duraza's comment I think some sort of middle ground would be appropriate. The first time you die is likely to be very traumatic and memories could be blocked but they could also be etched indelibly. This is one thing where player discretion should be the rule. If you really want to not remember then do not. those who admire or fear you may well emulate you sometime down the line. Of course anything that is repeated often enough becomes familiar.
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My problem is that the Death Realm is a walk in a park. If characters can remember who killed them, then murders will be death sentences in most cases, unless you're wearing a mask or something. Imagine a tavern brawl that gets too excited, someone dies and the other runs away. The person who was killed is reborn, like nothing happened, goes to the Hydlaa Guard and participates of the murderer. There should at least be a chance (50%?) that you forget because of the shock (here the middle term asked by Prolix applying.)
Also, I'd like to continue on something: complementing the setting. I think players should always choose _not_ to complement the system (in other words attempt to do actions that are not supported by the system) unless strictly required. When it must happen, the outcome should either be agreed by the players or be decided by a dice-test system agreed by both parties.
About descriptions, I think what is most obvious should always appear first. And masks and hooded cloaks being worn are _very_ obvious. Characters should have a chance to notice these shady individuals right away :P.
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In the case of your tavern brawl, I think it would depend on the exact circumstances of the engagement. If it were the person who started the fight that wound up dying accusations of murder would be somewhat suspect as the survivor could claim self defense. Of course with the pvp system as is it could be claimed that any player initiated trip to the DR is murder (other than suicide, of course) because it will only happen with the coup de grace. Then there is the consideration that the loser of the fight might not accept it and repeatedly attack once fully healed, even when he knows he is going to lose, because he hopes to get lucky. In this case it might well be appropriate to send him to the DR after all. There are many considerations that must be made in law when death is not permanent. In the latter case as a guard "I might just say well you had it coming." Then again there can be extenuating circumstances such as if the brawl started because the stronger player took something important from the weaker. All this just to say things are not always so cut and dried.
My suggestion for the RP weapon sets were for the case where you want to play a powerful one-off enemy in a role play by creating a new temporary character. In this case you would be unable to have the stats and skills to match your intended role and thus the "broken" weapons would allow you to go through the motions and still achieve the result you wish to have. The enemy may well need to slay several characters before ultimately brought to the permanent death.
As for descriptions, hopefully these things will get implemented sooner rather than later but it makes me think that wearing helmets while wandering about town should be discouraged just the same as carrying weapons as mostly they obscure your face. Heavy armor is likely to be removed promptly when it is not needed.
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I've added a sketch of the "final" product in the Topic post. And I typed "final" because this is meant to keep improving as people give more advise.
I didn't include my opinion about forgetting because I think it would be requesting too much. Please add to what is in the topic post!
EDIT to add:
Fail on the "concise" part. I tried to make it sound as little imposing as possible, as persuading as possible and with as much examples required. Please point me another way if you think is necessary ^^.
Also, this is not meant to add anything new. Just to consolidate what we already know and to make everyone, at least speaking for myself, more confident that they're doing what other people agree should be done.
2nd EDIT to add:
It came out in the form of a guide more than in a set of guide-lines to be respected... Probably because it would seem very authoritarian to simply post it like a set of "rules." I'll try to get it into that form though, later.
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I read this thread and there is one point i like to add:
Dont use alt chars acting in the intrest of another char of you. Lets assume to guild A and B that have an IC argument. Leader of guild B makes an alt and tries to get into guild A. After some time he reaches his goal and gets invited to guild A. He uses the information gathered with his guild A char in his guild B char and even at some point decides to use the guild A char to harm the reputation of guild A by doing nasty actions falling back on the guild.
Use of alt chars is an OOC thing and using them drags the IC argument OOC, and that should also be avoided. In my opinion I dont even consider this as roleplay - I consider it as cheating.
Another thing I have seen is that players who are non native english speakers have been nitpicked for tiny grammatical errors. Its easy for native english speakers to point out errors made by non native english speakers and use that as reason to offend and humiliate the other players. Don't do it! If you think your are superior just because the language used in Planeshift is english and you are an native english speaker and every non english speaker is inferior you are wrong. The other player made the effort to learn your language and you mock at him because he hasn't got the perfection you have, that's poor.
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* IC/OOC chatting (tabs, OOC chat, correct typing, etc.);
I stay IC in main and do my best to prevent anything OOC there, unless I have to address several people I'm not grouped with OOCly or a new player who doesn't know tells, then I use brackets of course. Can't stand abbreviations in chat but that's a personal pet peeve of mine. Typos do happen to anyone though.
* How to respect other characters;
Respect the player behind the character and always make sure they're still having fun. If one of you isn't having fun, it's better to move away and leave eachother alone.
* How to respect the settings;
Settings creates a lot of content, it can be found in books, quests, NPC questioning, etc. Use it, no need to ignore it and go make up your own, usually more extravagant, story. Sticking to settings ensures that everyone is on the same page and prevents a lot of OOC discussion or issues when you interact with others.
* About roleplayed fighting;
This is the most common cause of frustration in roleplay. Preventing frustration can be done by agreeing on the outcome before you start any fights. You can either roll a die for it, duel with the mechanics or just agree. Then it's much easier and more fun to RP the fight, keeping the outcome in mind. No hassle and no whining.
* About "complementing the system" where it lacks;
The system lacks in many areas, this is still a game under development but even after that it won't be as extensive as reality so roleplay is all about complementing the system in my eyes. Keep in mind to complement though, not create something completely unconnected.
* About Death and its Roleplaying;
If I die in a roleplay, I stay dead for at least a week. I'll also implement long lasting changes in my character which usually include more caution and a healthy fear of dying again. I'll also refrain from hunting down or retaliating against whoever killed me just because I don't like unending cycles.
* How to use information (in the forums, in the website, etc.) & Metagaming;
Information outside the game is only IC if it is stated so, everyone agrees that it can be used in-game and I already know the involved characters. Since we're not always able to be online but our characters are interacting in the world 24/7 I find forums and such worthy alternatives to keep in touch with people of the same guild/organisation or circle of friends.
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Wow okay, I've not read everything that all of you have posted but my opinion however was requested for this thread so here goes a small response on the initial post and idea, just some of my thoughts on the issue, nothing anyone has to follow but I do agree over all a general guide is helpful and needed.
IC/OOC chatting (tabs, OOC chat, correct typing, etc.)
I use main tab for main ALWAYS unless I use []. Tells.. hmm tells are a bit more tricky, I tend to think for the most part OOC unless whispering, sending a groffle note or whatever. but I've known some that have tired to get me to RP in tells and I just simple told them that hey, I am sorry you char just passed out on oja road..but I am on my way to BD..not much I can do from here maybe you want to get someone closer to involve into your RP, or wait for me to arrive to continue. But at the same time I've used tells to hint to others where I am or what I am doing such as "Izzabella sits alone by the fountain reading a book" and I'll get replies like "so and so wanders around the plaza hoping to run into Izzabella" or whatever sure its kinda OOC but kinda a silly OOC way to let us know IC where we are at so that we can 'bump' into one another. or so we know what we are doing, "so and so is slaying ulbers and trying to stay alive in the process'. I guess for me for the most part unless I know the person well and know that the tell talk is OOC I use [] to make sure its clear.
Auction Tab--- oh thats a touchy tab for me..hehe I'd like for it to be more IC and I try but I admit I'm not very good at that.. I mean for me it goes kinda OOC when you say /tell whoever and then the conversation and offerings go to /tells even tho you can be to far apart to be 'whispering' or whatever but being more IC is something that I'd really like to challenge myself personally to be more IC when I use this tab.
Guild chat I guess its more up to the individual guilds for that..I know any guilds I've been in however seem to be pretty much OOC and at times --but I am not saying we don't RP and have fun and act like our char's in guild chat ever..we just don't regard that and use it in our actual RP--if we did..Izzy and Org would have had WAY more fights! ;)
NPC tab-- ehh until lately I've also used this as more of an OOC tab..I mean its not like other chars near by could hear the convo..and I guess for the most part I took most quests to be more OOC stuff to do in my spare time not really took it into part of my RP, however lately I've been trying to RP them a lot more and only do things that my char would actually do, I improve every day! \\o//
Help tab-OOC however I do try to encourage people asking for help to RP all the time ;)
Group tab--that depends on the group leader more or less when you join or make the group thats usually decided then other wise when I join a group the first thing I ask is" [ic or ooc?]" just so that I am safe and know whats going on. I will use group for private planing conversations or whatever if I don't want anyone else hearing and I do by in main I say something about lowering my voice. I also use groups if I got into a 'building" (one thats RP'ed not really entered) because in theory no one outside around could hear.
System tab..OOC :P
I think thats all the tabs.. can't think right now I am so sleepy.. I'll edit if I forgot one but I Think thats all..
How to respect other characters
This is a big one for me and we actually just had a small argument on this topic on our guild forums which I seemed to have ended rather quickly ;) One thing to remember is EVERYONE role plays in their own way, we all know and have been taught diffrent things, we are diffrent ages and come from diffrent places. And some just don't know. I personally have never had to use the /ignore feature (don't get any ideas on bugging me, Velh) I am a very patient person and I am constantly giving second and tenth chances to people, I realize that people have bad days, and make mistakes, I know I have many times. I think in order to respect someones char you have to respect the person playing the char as well and realize that they won't play just like you and you have to adapt yourself to them at times you can't expect everyone to RP like you do and change for you, and if you find that you can't find a happy medium between you and another player then you need to politely tell them that you don't think RPing with them is a working out well, if nothing else just say that your char does not fit well IC with the other persons char..I dunno :/ Also you need to remember that just because the char does something mean or bad to your char does NOT mean they are a bad person IRL or mean or whatever, they just do as their char would do, I have several characters and its always fun because I have some that get along great with certain others and then my other chars are greatly hated by that same char, but OOC we are friends, I've even made some great friends OOC that IC my char hates (one example is one of my chars hates this other char because she thinks he's just scum and a two-timing jerk ;) [you know who you are] but because of our IC battles we've actually become great friends OOC and its fun cause I still make fun of him all the time :P)
How to respect the settings
About role played fighting
arg..I am not sure I should go here X-/ I am 1/2 and 1/2 on this one..I mean if you can agree OOC first who will win then *maybe* it will work out I dunno..I've yet to be involved in a non godmoding RP fight, I have the stats and skills to PvP so I just prefer that rather than sitting there all night letting the opponent block all my hits while I let them beat me up and take their hits, I'd rather let them kill me so I can move on :P
About "complementing the system" where it lacks
I am not sure what this question means.. :P if its lacking..RP it! :)
About Death and its Role playing
ehh..I guess it all depends on WHY I died.. and if it was a RP'ed death and such..I mean if I am killing mobs and get killed and it was just be doing some boring PL'ing and such..no I don't rp it.. however if I am with a group and we are hunting and I die..I do RP it, and I RP The death curse as well, I am lucky to be alive Drakuu has pardoned me but cursed me with this evil curse blah blah blah.
How to use information (in the forums, in the website, etc.) & Metagaming
I tend to think the forums are OOC. just my opinion and I get annoyed when people say to find out more about my char go to this site or that and to find out about this event read this thread and such..I mean sure the forums are great and nice an helpful but more of an OOC way to let ME know there is something going to happen on a certain day or time
okay I think I am done..this really is not as short as it was supposed to be..and I'd like to comment on Zwenze's post-- I agree..thats totally OOC- some have tired to explain its their char 'disgusted' or whatever..but no. I usually get another char in game to do spy for me or pay off someone in the guild for info ;) And I'd also like to point out as well that because I do have so many alts and such it does not mean that the info I find on one char I am going to let Izzy use and what not, I do know how to RP and thats why I keep my alts on the low down because too many people think "oh no outlaw' when I am on my alts and they wont have anything to do with them or their guilds or whatever,and thats just crap because Izzy is un-lawful not my other chars ;)
Okay yeah thats about all I have to say for now *yawn* if the kids were not awake I'd go crawl back into bed. so yeah..I hope this makes sense and all I'll look it over again latter, if not just ask me questions :P
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IC/OOC chatting
Firstly, the obvious, all OOC chat should be in brakets [], parentheses (), or something when in main. When using tells, guild chat, or grouping you can set your own rules for OOC. Talk however you want in brakets, IM chatting acceptable as long as its inbetween.
As for IC chatting, try your hardest to spell words correctly, complete sentences, etc. English isn't eveyones first language I understand so mistakes will be made. Typing is everyones strong suit so typos happen. If you make it and you notice it then its nice to correct. If your rping with someone and they make a small mistake then let it slide. If you don't understand what they are saying then ask. Like I said, remember others are speaking different languages so using IM talk while rping doesn't help them understand you any better.
Auction tab and Main tab should always be IC. Other tabs are sometimes IC sometimes OOC depending on the situation. I'd usually say that guild is always OOC but one could probably argue otherwise so make your own rules, just keep them sensible.
How to respect other characters
Obviously we all should respect each other OOCly. If your doing something that could be considered offensive and someone asks you to stop then please do. If you want to continue move it to group or another tab. At the same time people shouldn't so quickly take offense to every little thing, that tends to cause just as much conflict. I personally would prefer it if people held back from using excessive swearing or vulgar language. No point to it people and you never know who may happen to be reading what you write. Lastly, everyone roleplays differently so try and accept each other. If someone is making a mistake point it out to them but don't go around calling them names (noob, etc) because of it.
ICly respect differs from character to character. Just always make sure that OOCly players know you aren't the IC monster you may rp to be. Don't bring OOC conflict into roleplay. Don't act out of character and suddenly hate them ICly because you got into an argument OOCly.
How to respect the settings
When roleplaying I know we all like to go away from the settings sometimes, do things that still fit in but make us different (boy am I guilty :P ). It's fun but I'd say try and incorporate as much of the settings in your roleplay as possible. There is a lot of material available and I know many roleplayers ignore it because they just want to do their own thing. Thats unkind to the members of the settings team that work hard to create interesting things for us to do within their settings. Try hard to use them as you can still be different with them.
About roleplayed fighting
I personally hate dice rolling. Even rolling stats leaves much to luck. However, when roleplay fighting someone you don't know I can see the usefulness in having a kind of fair system. In those cases it is acceptable. I'd try to avoid dice rp at all cost though. A good rper knows their characters limits and when they would be godmodding. Keep those limits in mind when rp fighting and you should be fine. Also try and trust the characters your fighting agaisnt. After a while you'll know if you can trust them or not and if the latter then setting up a dice system or something like it has its use.
About "complementing the system" where it lacks
Always try and stick to the system. As of right now that may not be easy and even in the future it may still be hard but trying never hurt anyone.
About Death and its Roleplaying
Death isn't a friendly run. Give it some kind of purpose. Maybe today you die and you spend a day in death realm. Next time you die you may be there for a week. Who knows, next time you may be dead for a month. I'm not saying to suddenly decide that every death should last a month or the length should be randomly decided. I'm saying one should try and stay in the death realm as long as they can. Also let the length sort of fit the crime. If you were brutally murdered I don't think you will be out the next day.
What I definately don't want is people dieing then deciding to use an alt for a week. That is what makes others so willing to run through death realm, the lack of rp that goes on down there. Try to log on, rp some. You never know, you could meet someone new and starting rp is never bad.
How to use information (in the forums, in the website, etc.) & Metagaming
Simply, unless the person posting is saying it is IC or saying that one would be able to 'see' or learn about whatever it is ingame easily take posts as OOC. If it is IC then you will know. If they fail to leave any way for you to know if it's IC then take it as OOC or contact the poster.
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I've taken some points about Metagaming and added them in the guide. I still have to make it pretty and the current style it possesses derives from the fact that I've been trying out stuff. :P
I'll also improve the wording, hopefully with Phinehas' help.
Duraza, Zan and Izzy's opinions match, at least partially, with what is found within the guide-lines added in the first topic. I consider them to be roleplayers of very different characteristics, so I'm guessing this means we're on the right way!
I'd like if I could get comments on the content present in the topic post: Are these notions enough? Are they well explained? Could a beginner understand this well? Are you willing to follow these guide-lines? Is anything missing? Could it be more interactive?
Please help!
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I really like how it looks, great job!
My only suggestion might be to add a small something somewhere about the /introduction system, I get a lot of people asking "how I do see someones name?" "why is everyone someone" and such. Maybe if you explained how its a RP feature and they need to RP and talk to that char and introduce themselves that might be helpful.
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I have to run to class, but i briefly skimmed the guide and it looks really good. The one thing I can remember as a newbie was having NO idea whatsoever what IC and OOC were. People were ranting and raving about IC/OOC and i was completely in the dark. I forget what paragraph it is but this is somewhat clarified...but perhaps if it was stated a bit more blatantly, the completely ignorant newbie (such as i was) would be sure not to miss it.
Great job Sangwa!! :D
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by learning basics concepts about RolePlaying
It has some examples meant to let you know what is accepted and what is frowned upon. preferred standards and discouraged practices.
play it our like as if you were your character
by very hard working, kind people that keep tunningtuning it to
You can even help testing the game, better if you're enjoying yourself, while finding out what is missing to make the entertainment even greater. report bugs to the bugtracker and make feature requests on the forums or bugtracker.
Possibly add links to the bugtracker.
In the chatting section you might want to make allowance for dialect, some people may want to speak in a manner not consistent with proper grammar and spelling to portray an uneducated or otherwise lower class character. Not quite sure how you would like to word this though.
Advised that it be used as OOC.
"It is advised".... more proper not to leave off the subject of the sentence. You might say "we suggest" instead but that would be somewhat less definite although advise and suggest are synonyms. The former third person form is more indirect than the latter first person construction. Perhaps better than either would be "We advise". The second time, under the group heading you could say responsibility of each group,. Advised that and again it should generally be used as OOC.
Fighting between players: The game system requires a /challenge and its acceptance for PVP to occur. The challenged player has the right to refuse for any reason.
You should fill in a Wish at the Wheel of Wishes
link this if it actually exists or suggest the wish list section of the forum or explain how to make a feature request on the bug tracker.
In the "complementing the system" section keep the examples withing their respective <li> </li> tags so they retain the indentation.
A Bad Example. Don't Follow, please!
Not bending to others and requesting rolls....
Not really an example, you might try to reword this. Also you might want to say "Please avoid doing this:..." instead of "A Bad Example. Don't Follow, please!"
Metagaming header is misspelled and might be more properly hyphenated: meta-gaming. Hyphenation appears to be optional from a quick web search.
I hope some of this is helpful to you.
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Thanks a lot guys!
@Anumesa: I've added a note to warn people about IC and OOC. You made a great point, I hope what I added is enough!
@Prolix: Thanks! The wording has been well improved.
EDIT to add:
Man, these forums work strangely. The list thingy gets all messed up. I'll try to get it working.
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This protocol has been Parallo-approved!