PlaneShift
Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Aturon on May 03, 2008, 06:51:49 pm
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I Recently spoke to Master Zwenze from the Way of the Hammers and we discussed about how we could make it easier for all the Citicents of Yliakum to visit the Market. To make it more comfortable to the hard digging Platinum Miners to spent their Trias the montlly Market will take place in the Gugrontid Tavern. It will start this Sunday as usual in the evening [at 1900 CET]
~~OOC~~
I hope that will be a better location, as the plaza. it seems to be very laggy for a lot of people and some could not even get there becaouse their machines could not handle that ammount of stress ;)
sorry for the short notice, i was very busy the last few days at work and was not at home most of the time, so i could not write that post anytime earlier.
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OOC: Many thanks for the change in place, i tried to get into the last market and lagged out :(
IC: I just hope that Platinum won't be the only thing on sale ;)
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[Wasn't it the point of the market to make Hydlaa a more lively place? Catering to powerminers who can't be bothered to change maps just because then need to keep mining is a poor and very OOC reason to do this, but that's just me. If the hydlaa_plaza map is too laggy, why not move it to East Hydlaa? Anyway, these are just my own personal impressions, I really like the market idea and I hope it doesn't disappear after a few weeks/months. Best of luck.]
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[I refuse to participate in this market in any way. It is a shame that roleplayers care about powerminers that spend their time in Gugrontid for the sake of platinum. I am deeply disappointed that such a nice idea is used in this way.]
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[What's wrong with Akkaio?]
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Full ack - no Gugrontid for me, of reasons already given by Dajoji and Donari.
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[ I can't but agree with Dajoji and Donari here. What is the point on bringing the Market to the players? We keep complaining about how empty Hydlaa is most often and this approach seems to actually support the fact of everybody should stay at the mine and do nothing else.
I myself never cared about the monetary profit of such meetings but about the roleplay they can bring up, also considering new players (often dedicated miners) may be forced to roleplay their purchases as neither I or other traders will allow OOC sales, thus that may help to slowly get them into roleplaying as well..
Besides, I can't see how a tavern is a good place for a market. If I was the owner I'd probably grab a club and kick the butts of the merchants out of there. If the market is going to happen in Gugrontid I'd use the streets and have the tavern host the cultural/entertainment events. But no wonder, you won't find me there.
If the plaza is really a problem for most people then please reconsider it and take East Hydlaa as location. That will benefit the players and the game... ]
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Why kicking off the butts? Just have a profit .. say, plus 20% on each sale?;)
Seriously though, that idea feels to me pretty much like having it a trading thing, for the only reason to sell items, not to roleplay. Hence, no one of my chars will be around there.
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[Ok. Let's keep input constructive. The Market is a great idea. There's room for both role play and player-player sales there. If someone doesn't find it of their liking then they are free to ignore it completely, but please avoid dismissive comments. No need to campaign against it. If they want to use other locations, fine, but it's better if they do it for IC reasons not just so miners don't have to stop mining. Having the market tour like a fair from city to city might be a better approach. I hope the event goes well, wherever it happens.]
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[I am against the market tour idea. In fact, some have been gaining money by buying in Ojaveda and selling in Hydlaa at the market. That was a nice approach towards a real economy. Now, to constructive criticism. Why don't you use a guildhall in Hydlaa for your market? That'd reduce the lag and keep the market in Hydlaa.]
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[What about those many spots in Hydlaa, off the plaza? At the North gates.. some fountain-places between there and the plaza.. East..
Oja? Hm.. since thats the only place nowadays the cooked stuff is produced, I wouldnt really agree with that. A more distant location could show it to be a more valuabla stuff.
I just dont like to bring that market to Gugrontid where all the money-making is going on anyways - not to mention what Deprah said: A tavern to set up a market place? To me that makes not much sense, finally why I see it a bit as a rather OOCish solution]
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I like the market tour idea. Why not have monthly markets in several places?
You could have a market in Hydlaa on the first sunday of the month, in Gugrontid on the second, and in Ojaveda on the third. Or something like that.
Some characters would visit them all, and possibly make a profit by bying cheap at one place, and selling dear at another, but what about it? It spreads stuff around, and that's what matters. And you get to meet people...
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[It seems to me that merchants that go to where the money is are bound to make more money than those who say "customers be damned! this is where my shop is." Only those with unique products and/or quality can afford to sit and wait for the money to come in.
That said, it also seems likely that town officials would extract a cut of any dealings in their town and so the merchants would set up on the outskirts as opposed to inside someone else's establishment.]
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[I don't see a problem with having this market in Gugrontid, as long as it does not stay there. There was an idea that was taken into consideration on the other thread, which i believe they are taking into account now. The market can rotate from town to town. There was nothing said about making this change permanent. We can have it in Gugrontid this time, Akkaio next, then Hydlaa, etc. Plus, the main complaint is that this market will be a miner's paradise. Wrong. Prices will plummet because of the vicinity of the mine and supply will be much higher than demand.]
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Plus, the main complaint is that this market will be a miner's paradise. Wrong. Prices will plummet because of the vicinity of the mine and supply will be much higher than demand.]
[ Not really, the main complaint (at least mine) is: Hydlaa is deserted. Besides, there is already a mining paradise, there is no need to enhance it by taking a market there. A touring monthly market means it will reach Hydlaa once every 3-4 months. I fail to see how would this help the life in the capital, which obviously should NOT be deserted.
Prolix has a point about the government taking a slice off the merchants so perhaps a good place could be the exit by East, outside the city walls. There is a lot of room there to set a market up. About merchants going where money is: that may make sense IC-wise but once again. I thought the main idea was to bring life to Hydlaa? ]
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ok, now this post is going to be totaly ooc, so skip it if you want...
actually the main idea was to have a regulary roleplay event that everyone can take part who want to.
this seems not possible for everyone on the plaza. a lot of people complained about lag and other problems,
do you want them to be ignored and kept from taking part in that event? as i already told in my other posts i
dont care about gaining tria, so i give a damn about the platinum mine. if you think that is the point then you
totaly got the wrong idea of the market.
the tavern was selected cuz it's a place that provides a lot of space and the environment provides a lot of
possibilitys for players to create their markedstands (tables etc). the octarch guildhouse in hydlaa was also
a possible location, but we discussed that and decided against it for space reasons. (even if it provides some
nice features like the collision detection in guildhouses).
so if you want to take part in that event, you're welcome. if you dont... your loss.
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[Actually, the suggestion of doing it outside the East Gates sounded much better. Lag is not that bad in that area and it makes absolute sense IC. Having the market in the tavern or the Octarchal residency, however, does not simply because the spaces have nothing to do with a market. Especially the Octarchal residency!
Note that the suggestions posted here, even though some of them took a blunt turn, did not stop from being constructive so take in as much as you want but ignoring them might make you miss out on some good ideas that will make your event more successful. Again, the best of luck with this.]
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~~OOC~~
dont get me wrong, i'm thankfull for every constructive idea/critic i get. my last post was refering to
Donari Tyndale, wich seems to get the whole thing wrong. the change of location was definately not for
money reasons (or what do you think how much money i made with my fish?! ;)) it was only for reasons
to make it easyer and more enjoyable for many people to take part in that event.
of course it is possible to make the market in a different location next month. maybe oja, maybe east
hydlaa or somewhere else (i for myself would like the bd fortress, cuz it's one of the most beautiful spots
in the game, but i think noone would go there for a market). that is still open for debate. but the octarch
house is simply too small to provide enough room, in that case we had to limit the ammount of merchants
or it would be crowded like hell... and how to control how many merchants will be there?
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[What would you say to a guildhouse in Hydlaa? I might be able to arrange something for you ;)]
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@ Dajoji and Donari and... :
I would not be satisfied if Gugrontid will always be know as "boring place because there are all day only miners, nothing else". Hail to Ileresa and Yadili who chose to sell their apples just there, and to bring life in the ignored town. And hail to everyone who builds a contra to the boredom of "only mining and nothing else" in Gugrontid.
IMHO.
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Compromise: Let the market rotate through different places?
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[I'm not against having a market in Gugrontid or any other city for that matter. It's doing it there to make it easier for the miners that I find OOC. The lag reason is valid but it does not have to exclude Hydlaa completely. East Hydlaa is less laggy and so are some other areas in North Hydlaa. Now wherever the market takes place next time, let it be in a place that makes sense IC, not only OOC. That will enhance the event a great deal. That the Octarchal residence is too small should not be the reason not to do it there. It should be because it makes little sense that an Octarch would lend his house for a commoners' market. Would you lend your house for a market? Perhaps as a favor if the organizers are your friends but would you do it if you were the city's most important person? That's a big favor to ask. In any case, hopefully we can have more events like this and more public spaces will be designed to host them.]
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What I currently see is, Oja being the place to cook (and craft perhaps), it has a feature with that special kitchen. It has many rogues and may appear a bit shady, wild. A quarantined area (is it still?). Its more of a town than of a city or even a metropolis, even a bit filthy, with its muddy or sandy paths, not even roads.
Gugrontid has its mine, and a smithie. After all ores and crystals should sort of have some rather special meaning to that place, no? Although my own several attempts to spice that place up with some chars and rp, which success was more than doubtful since lack of any replies, I am not aiming at that problem now. The more I mean it like even with all the miners and crafters being interestingly rped there, that place just seems to be a rocky and a bit dusty dirty working place. Selling apples there? I am tending to picture it like selling refreshment to some of the few miners, since most inhabitants should be Kran who arent very interested in apples, no?
The eagles region.. since its meant to be roamed by dire creatures, a frontline.. I dont think setting up a market there would be attractive to people offering precious wares.
Hydlaa.. well, whats with Hydlaa? It appears to be a melting pot of all races. A central spot. But recently there isnt anything special happending there, although the smithie gets frequented a little more as of late, the pub as well. With Hydlaa's winch region though, a quarter of noble merchants that it is, and its connection to other levels - I imagine merchants coming from a lower level, about to sell their wares without having to cross dangerous wilderness: arriving within a well guarded, walled and safe city (not to say metropolis) and right into that living and blooming place.
Sure, other places should have markets as well, but first of all by far Hydlaa should have one!
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This entire thread learnt me a huge portion for respect for XilliX. Last time the market was help at Plaza and players who took part send me tells complaining about lag and that another spot might be better. Several proposals where made and the gug tavern was proposed by far most often to me.
Lag is an ooc issue, but a real good one.The reason why gugrontid tavern was choosen is, that its deserted (read the desc) and no owner can throw us out, it has tables where people can lay their offerings on and has less lag. From an ic point of view: money comes from there and people are there. Anyone who would make a market ic'ly would make it near to people and where the tria is. There is no economy like in real life and tria is earned by crafters and miners. But if you think we move there to sell or fishes or beer mugs for a higher price because we are greedy ooc powerlevelers please think again. If tria would be the reason we wouldn't do this at all, we would go to the platinum mine and mine there. The idea is to bring rp to the game.
What happens then? People who did not participate in the first market come here and start a thread off complaining and bitching about an event they never wanted to participate and I get wrong reasons shoved down my throat >:( Thanks people for reminding me, how vommit tastes.
Every location has its pros can cons and the idea was to test out different locations.Many had suggested gugrontid for reasons like having an oven near or having tables. Is having an oven near and having a table to display your wares ooc? Believe it or not, the platinum mine was never a point in the considerations oocly, it was where are people, where is little lag and what place might deliver a good atmosphere.
Now about oocishness of tavern: I have seen markets taking place in gymns, streets and many other public places. Its really nice to see that people can held flea markets and other kind of markets on places without being critizised for beeing ooc. Sometimes rl is a beatifull place compared to this flame pit.
About other locations:
octarchial residency: agreed, icly a bad place.
And guild house: bad place for a guild independend market.
Ojaveda: was a hot competitor, but from an ic and ooc point one contra argument was: there are little people and its a long way there and hard to setup a both.
OOC: Many thanks for the change in place, i tried to get into the last market and lagged out :(
IC: I just hope that Platinum won't be the only thing on sale ;)
I hope you like this location better. Less lag. And I think (OOC) the only item you can't buy there will be ores ;) But beware, some over zealous rpers might rip you into pieces for being an ooc acting tria greedy pl'er.
[Wasn't it the point of the market to make Hydlaa a more lively place? Catering to powerminers who can't be bothered to change maps just because then need to keep mining is a poor and very OOC reason to do this, but that's just me. If the hydlaa_plaza map is too laggy, why not move it to East Hydlaa? Anyway, these are just my own personal impressions, I really like the market idea and I hope it doesn't disappear after a few weeks/months. Best of luck.]
That was the point, but many players have some trouble with the plaza with lag and hardly beeing able to participate due to lag. We can't rp against lag, but don't want to exclude people with a slower machine. Settings wise the gugrontid is a wealthy place and there are many people around. ICly thats a good environment for a market. Those are the ic reasons. The ooc reasons is that there are ovens and tables. If you look at the initial post by aturon in an ooc way it seems to be ooc, but if you had been at the first market and look on the goods offered you see that the platinum mine is just used as an (maybe weak) icish reason to move outside of hydlaa.
[I refuse to participate in this market in any way. It is a shame that roleplayers care about powerminers that spend their time in Gugrontid for the sake of platinum. I am deeply disappointed that such a nice idea is used in this way.]
You also refused to the first market. Compaint notized and moved to /dev/null. Thanks for misinterpreting the intentions and wasting my time.
[What's wrong with Akkaio?]
Its far away and little people there. Besides that it has some huge advantages as it offers a great atmosphere. There are many proposed locations and we can only be on one place. This time we used gugrontid. Sorry for that.
[ I can't but agree with Dajoji and Donari here. What is the point on bringing the Market to the players? We keep complaining about how empty Hydlaa is most often and this approach seems to actually support the fact of everybody should stay at the mine and do nothing else.]
We had our first market in hydlaa and i received many complaints. Now we move elsewhere and again i receive compalints. Kudos to Xillix for taking this a long time.
[I myself never cared about the monetary profit of such meetings but about the roleplay they can bring up, also considering new players (often dedicated miners) may be forced to roleplay their purchases as neither I or other traders will allow OOC sales, thus that may help to slowly get them into roleplaying as well..]
Oh yeah. We will get rich because we can sell our foods and drinks for 1 tria more because we moved to gugrontid.
[Besides, I can't see how a tavern is a good place for a market. If I was the owner I'd probably grab a club and kick the butts of the merchants out of there.]
Read the description of that tavern. There is no owner.
[ If the market is going to happen in Gugrontid I'd use the streets and have the tavern host the cultural/entertainment events. But no wonder, you won't find me there.
If the plaza is really a problem for most people then please reconsider it and take East Hydlaa as location. That will benefit the players and the game... ]
Well, as we had in in hydlaa far more people asked me to move to gug then east hydlaa. And sorry for hurting the game because we have choosen to bring rp into pl contested theory. Oh and off course serving food and ale in tavern is ooc crap. Taverns are for cultural/entertainment events. No wonder, i don't miss you there >:(
Why kicking off the butts? Just have a profit .. say, plus 20% on each sale?;)
Seriously though, that idea feels to me pretty much like having it a trading thing, for the only reason to sell items, not to roleplay. Hence, no one of my chars will be around there.
Woot, really +20%. Then I can sell my ales for 6 tria instead of 5. Sure thing, thats why we moved ;)
[I am against the market tour idea. In fact, some have been gaining money by buying in Ojaveda and selling in Hydlaa at the market. That was a nice approach towards a real economy. Now, to constructive criticism. Why don't you use a guildhall in Hydlaa for your market? That'd reduce the lag and keep the market in Hydlaa.]
You refused to the first market, will ignore the second market and you dont like the idea of a moving market. Compaint notized and moved to /dev/null. Thanks wasting my time. Why do I get the feeling you will never stop complaining unless all markets take place in your guild house?
[I'm not against having a market in Gugrontid or any other city for that matter. It's doing it there to make it easier for the miners that I find OOC. The lag reason is valid but it does not have to exclude Hydlaa completely. East Hydlaa is less laggy and so are some other areas in North Hydlaa. Now wherever the market takes place next time, let it be in a place that makes sense IC, not only OOC. That will enhance the event a great deal. That the Octarchal residence is too small should not be the reason not to do it there. It should be because it makes little sense that an Octarch would lend his house for a commoners' market. Would you lend your house for a market? Perhaps as a favor if the organizers are your friends but would you do it if you were the city's most important person? That's a big favor to ask. In any case, hopefully we can have more events like this and more public spaces will be designed to host them.]
Think about it icly: Gugrontid is a wealthy area where many workers are near that have a loose tria in the pockets. Merchants are intrested in getting custoemrs and not reviving some plazes like the plaza. This location is more ic then the plaza if you think that a char wants to sell goods.
Then think about a plaze in the gugrontid. A street to prepare foods and drinks or a deserted unguarded tavern?
Heck, people complain that this tavern is unused and now we wanna use it and people complain we use it. WHAT?
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Gugrontid has its mine, and a smithie. After all ores and crystals should sort of have some rather special meaning to that place, no? Although my own several attempts to spice that place up with some chars and rp, which success was more than doubtful since lack of any replies, I am not aiming at that problem now. The more I mean it like even with all the miners and crafters being interestingly rped there, that place just seems to be a rocky and a bit dusty dirty working place. Selling apples there? I am tending to picture it like selling refreshment to some of the few miners, since most inhabitants should be Kran who arent very interested in apples, no?
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There is a tavern there too with an oven. But I got it and i never will try to make something for more then 2 players as i get slapped all over the forums by people who dont take part in it but think they know everything better and tell me how when and why i have to do it.
Octarchs are supposed to be a dictator ship. Looks at the power rpers, compared to those the octarchs look like some peaceloving hippies. Really, you guys complain there is to less rp going on in PS all the time. I can tell you why. Every time someone tries to do something besides training and leveling he receives nit picking critics from all sides. Sorry for trying to do something else and new, I seriously consider to stop that in future >:(
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I can tell you why. Every time someone tries to do something besides training and leveling he receives nit picking critics from all sides. Sorry for trying to do something else and new, I seriously consider to stop that in future >:(
amen brother zwenze.
noone cared about where to hold the market this month except a few of us. we came to
an decission and the whining started right away.
and that's why i (after thinking a while about it) closed down my marketstand right now.
if you want a market next month, do it yourself whereever you want. i dont give a **it
about it anymore, cuz it's pointless to try to bring something to this community. all you
get is whining and complaining in dolby surround, instead of bringing ideas or make it
a better event by taking part with your own RP.
screw the whole thing.
good night
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Er.. wow, nice mood there o/
Seriously though, I already spoke my compliments in the first thread.
The part of mine you quoted, Zwenze, whats it complaining about? I spoke my mind about how I see things, no? Am I now supposed to take your reply on it as "Hell, what a foolish point of view"?
make it
a better event by taking part with your own RP.
I just was at the Plaza, playing some deal with a nice guy Edellin, next to a member of the Way of the Hammer..
Being bawled at for trying to suggest and discuss things is the reason for why I am not around often in these forums. And after all thats what I was about, discuss the setting, or does it look like "All you plan is crap"?
Next time just add to your initial post "No critics accepted" - and yes, thats a suggestion.
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[With every big event there will be complaints as well as suggestions. Some will be fair, others not so much and others will be mere nitpicking. That GMs know very well, I can tell you, so don't take it personally. However, I think most comments in this thread were constructive and you could use them to further improve your event. Wasn't the point for this market to be a community effort? If so, discussions like this are for the better. Don't take the comments as attacks because they were not intended as such. This event has a lot of potential, don't let it go to waste.]
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:woot:
Do it without them, nevermind the haters, yes you will get torn down.
But if no one does anything then the players complaint to ME.
I would much rather have you arguing with each other!
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Free market anyone?
I say go set up your shop where you want, the nature of competition will ensure that someone else will set their shop up where you choose not to do it. Unless they can go under your price, then they mightl come sell things next to you.
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Um... I don't know if we are all reading the same forum here. I didn't see many constructive criticisms posted. I saw several forum regulars (status determined by number of posts) tearing the idea apart because it didn't fit their idea of what should be happening in-game. I see this all over the forums. I have been on the receiving end of this a couple of times as well. How exactly is there supposed to be player initiated RP, if every time it conflicts with others view of RP they get roasted on the forums?
I personally love the idea of a traveling merchant. I normally stay around Akkaio and Ojaveda. I travel to Hydlaa only when I am in need of items or trainers that are not available closer to home. I travel beyond hydlaa even less frequently. I finally stumbled across a very nice merchant that set up a stand in Akkaio and was able to purchase some nice items. The biggest complaint i have had with this game is the fact that I cannot frequently buy or sell items from other players. Threads like this do little to fix this problem.
I truly wish that there were more people willing to sit around and tediously mine, refine, craft and sell for the benefit of those that can't or don't want to do the same in order to progress their characters. Treating the rare ones we have now in this manner simply because they didn't hold their bazaar in the place you deem the most worthy is almost unforgivable. I remember reading in a book somewhere that Pride goes before a fall. Egos seem to be the biggest barrier to in-game RP that i have seen to date.
I am RPing my character. I have a place that I call home. I venture from there only when necessary. Am I supposed to live in Hydlaa because it is becoming less populated? Am I supposed to be traveling from BD to Akkaio all the time just because that is the only REAL way to RP? It takes 20 minutes of REAL time to go from Akkaio to BD... 20 minutes I could be interacting with others or building my character. That is nothing compared to how many in-game DAYS it takes. Am I really supposed to RP my character, or RP what is deemed appropriate by those that have been here the longest?
I love PS. I will continue to play PS as long as I don't get run over by the RP nazis. This is a wonderful game, and I sincerely appreciate the amount of time and effort that have gone into it. I am just starting to get tired of the ceaseless criticism of RP and the lack thereof in the forums. Take a moment or two to reflect on just how vicious the responses are when people cross those gods of RP. Please also don't dismiss the attacks as just constructive criticism, because most I read are failing miserably, especially when taken IN the context of their other posts around the forums.
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Except for my first post, which was lacking an reasons, all others of mine contained suggestions on where would I set it up, and why I would do so.
While this post is in this section, I presumed it was there to as well discuss it, and not only to announce it. Perhaps the Gugrontid-Board would have been a much more proper location for a mere announcement?
haters
RP nazis
The latter comment may be one of the most unconsidered and mindlessly shot terms found within these forums.
Guys, you know how to smooth out things, huh? ::)
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Well, the market went great, so, whats wrong with Gug again?
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If the term RP nazi is that offensive... replace it with something else. There is a a whole context of conformance and falling in-line with their goals that seems to fit the tone encountered here too frequently that really fits. It was not used as curse or bad word.
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/me hands out chill-pills en mass.
People, you've turned this thread into a flame war, if you haven't noticed.
It started actually ***IC*** and now all you can do is post how bad things are? FFS, that's really lame.
For one, I like this idea IC AND OOC.
Why?
Let me ask WHY would a person go to a far place to sell their goods if they can do it much more comfortably instead - in a deserted tavern nearby?
Why is it necessary to sell other things than ore to call a gathering of sellers and buyers a market? Why are there different markets in RL for fish, for cheese, for iron and tools, for weapons, for TV, for.. ?
Why is it necessary to run to a certain place just to make it "make it more living" if people suffer from lag there?
Why don't we have enough people to populate all areas equally and have to bother with this kind of problem at all?
Why can't people look at new ideas that try to improve the situation positively, get involved and make things happen instead of merely complain and turn other people's enthusiasm into pessimism?
Why, oh why.
Zwenze: If you need support with another market, poke me on IRC, I'll see what I can do to help you out.
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-OOC-
Some excellent points there, Kerol.
Please accept the following comments as suggestions that might aid in the resolution of this current debate and bring the most enjoyment to the most number of people, while still keeping RP within the scope of existing Settings material.
As to location: Zwenze has it exactly right. Stonebreaker Tavern is NOT a tavern any more. It is now a public area run by volunteers [which does not exclude player volunteers ;)] There is also a Merchant's Common by the East Hydlaa gates. Caravans arrive & depart there frequently, which might make it a good location for a market. I PERSONALLY like the idea of a weekly floating market, but as a Settings team member, I can see an IC reason for holding one in either location.
As to the issue of encouraging PLers: They are everywhere, in every game. PLers are not necessarily wrong or bad; PLers just derive pleasure from different aspects of the game than do RPers. And that's O.K. That being said, PS is geared towards encouraging an immersive, RP--rich environment, and it can be frustrating for RPers to deal with those who don't "help the plot along". Perhaps a little gentle persuasion is in order? Might I suggest hiring a friendly Ynnwn to be in charge of any market that is near heavy mining areas? That way, there is a decent IC way to refuse trade in any precious metals, be they ores or ingots or stocks. "I'm sorry. I can't touch that; it will burn me horribly," will gain the understanding of all but the hardest of hearts [or heads. ;)] Just a thought.
I wish you much luck, and applaud the efforts to make Yliakum more real for all of us. We will continue to work hard to provide more goodies for all!
-OOC-
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The part of mine you quoted, Zwenze, whats it complaining about? I spoke my mind about how I see things, no? Am I now supposed to take your reply on it as "Hell, what a foolish point of view"?
I quoted this because you see the gugrontid as a dusty working place. Well, I grew up in a small village with 2 quarrys, one of the in the center of the village. And believe me, those made a lot more dust then a horde of mining plers can do. The 80000 cars running through that village each day to the local car manfacturer and back at evening didn't make it any better. This village was a dusty working place. But there was not a single complaint about the weekly market in that village - it just happened. Obviously its easier to have a market in real life then in planeshift. There might be good reasons for this or another spot, but heck, just because you consider the gugrontid as beeing a dusty working place we should stop that event? Seriously, i can't take that as constructive suggestion.
We are curently debatting the location of the next market, but believe me this:
*We are not doing this for ooc monetary reasons. There are ways in game you can make more tria in less time.
*In real life you can have markets every where. In rl every dusty tiny village sourounded by quarrys and invaded by several ten thousand of cars daily or even the smallest village in the farest away corner in afganistan has a market. There are better and worser spots - agreed. And we are welcome for constrctive critics like *plaza lags for me* or *what wrong with akkaio*. But what has been said here was mostly constructive and only frustrating.
Anyway, we are looking for the next location and I want to thank those who participated at the market and helped to make it happen.
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I took this thread, the location, as one to be discussed. And in fact I also, most probably falsly, assumed this was sort of linked to Arturon's other thread about a monthly market.
Of course there is nothing wrong with markets in even the smallest village, or the Gugrontid, perhaps even some stands around the Eagle's Bronze Door selling weapons would make sense in some way.
Why I would have voted for a more central location I explained.
I wouldnt have done so of course if it would have been stated that its not really an object of any discussion.
Keep it going.
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I expect this not to count :D, but my vote is with Akkaio. The warehouse is the perfect place for a market.
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The warehouse district (Akkaio-East)? - Rather the existing market (Akkaio-Central) with so many free shop-buildings and stands.
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And if not Akkaio (far away), but also not the plaza (too laggy): Hydlaa-East (hydlaa_jayose) has a few useful areas too, like the place right at the east gate, or the little fountain place in "downtown" where a redhaired singer waits for a contract... Would it be possible to get at least a few stands there, similar to Akkaio? And even if not, we have crates and tables.
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Donari even thought about using a not yet assigned guildhouse. Well, that could technically be a good solution, avoiding much lag. I am not yet sure if it is a nice atmosphere, I am a little afraid that brawls about the two existing tables could arise... but I believe it is worth a test as well.
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Let's try the suggested alternatives, rotate the market a bit, and we will see what we enjoyed more or less.
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I had my stand with Meredee's Hunted Goods 3 time now, each time in Hydlaa Plaza. This time I've heard some rumours from 1 player in game (another merchant) that the market will be taking place somewhere else but at the end I was told that we make it in Hydlaa and I opened my stand there. After that I read this discussion here and Im stunned.
So many people are complaining and somehow I dont see that many people contributing something. There were totally 3 bigger markets recently and I only saw few merchants there, but here I see dozens of comments of people who didn't really do anything and are only COMPLAINING about everything possible.
It's a game. It's ment to be FUN. With all those fights you just spoil the fun. Instead of complaining on forums, DO something in game. Doesn't matter if you sell shields in Hydlaa plaza or apples at the platinum mine - as long as you DO something. Just do something constructive instead of complaining!
The other thing is that when 2 players say: we decided that this time the market takes place in Gugrontid, it's just not going to work! There are many good places for market in Yliakum and there are many players involved in the whole story and everybody has their own oppinion about the place so:
1) there should be a democratic poll OR
2) there should be an Octarch (GM) telling the citizens of Yliakum that the market is to take place in XXXXXXXX.
In both cases there would be no annoying discussions afterwards.
]
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Actually i think there would be a very long annoying discussion after the second option...
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COMPLAINING
Seriously, this bullock starts to make me sick..
Let me remember.. there was that CoD market once at the plaza, not too long ago. It was briefly announced in the Hydlaa Board-section. It was the best market I have seen so far (and not seeing my main char doesnt necessarily mean I am not there, just to prevent stupid questioning now). No discussion about it in advance, nor afterwards, simply and only announced, there it was.
If that would have been announced in another forums-section, where people usually discuss things, I am sure it would have been discussed too. The more if the poster would have used his second post to give a question. I personally start to wonder how ridiculous is it to ask, receive an answer, and then start rampaging about the mere fact of being answered.
Earlier today I told a friend about how silly, though harmful is it, to keep up despensable arguments like that - he answered to me, forget the forums! Unlike in these forums, the fun is ingame!
Very truely spoken.
Keep going to make some of the ones who posted in here look like haters, rp nazis, retarded flamers or by what other means you keep up the bad vibes - I dont care, I luckily wont be here to notice it.
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The other thing is that when 2 players say: we decided that this time the market takes place in Gugrontid, it's just not going to work! There are many good places for market in Yliakum and there are many players involved in the whole story and everybody has their own oppinion about the place so:
1) there should be a democratic poll OR
]
Well, I got many complaints after the last market that we have choosen plaza and thats a laggy position. So we tought we might move the thing. Sorry if the communication in advance was bad. But Aturon and I decided we will open a market at the gugrontid. People are free to join.
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2) there should be an Octarch (GM) telling the citizens of Yliakum that the market is to take place in XXXXXXXX.
In both cases there would be no annoying discussions afterwards.
]
The discussion started before. And you know what? I regret of having a market. More about that in a moment. And a following up post.
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Just rotate the market between Hydlaa, Gugrontid and Ojaveda.
Done.
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Ok Velh. This was the drop that brought the barrel to an overflow. >:(
COMPLAINING
Seriously, this bullock starts to make me sick..
Look at the begin of the thread. It was you, Deprah and Donari who started to flame and pick on us first. If you cant take heat from a single word, then dont spread heat using several flaming posts.
Let me remember.. there was that CoD market once at the plaza, not too long ago. It was briefly announced in the Hydlaa Board-section. It was the best market I have seen so far (and not seeing my main char doesnt necessarily mean I am not there, just to prevent stupid questioning now). No discussion about it in advance, nor afterwards, simply and only announced, there it was.
Oh believe me, I would have prefered it that way, but you nitpickers from space used the tiny announcement because we made a decision other then you. What makes you think that only Donari, Deprah and you have the right to decide where we are allowed to rp a market? We made a annoucement and got roasted for that. Your posts have not been helpfull or constructive in any way.
COMPLAINING
If that would have been announced in another forums-section, where people usually discuss things, I am sure it would have been discussed too. The more if the poster would have used his second post to give a question. I personally start to wonder how ridiculous is it to ask, receive an answer, and then start rampaging about the mere fact of being answered.
I cant find any question in the originating post. It was a mere announcement that we will have a market. Dajoji made a question because he mistook the reasons given in that initial announcement as ooc reasons while they where on fact only invented ic reasons because the true ooc reasons (lag at plaza) is hardly to justify ic'ly. And from there the heat started and several posts have been made just to piss us off. And you made it well. You fired dismissive comments and turned around the meaning of the orignal posts and started to campaign against that decision.
COMPLAINING
Earlier today I told a friend about how silly, though harmful is it, to keep up despensable arguments like that - he answered to me, forget the forums! Unlike in these forums, the fun is ingame!
Very truely spoken.
Why did you start the dismissive comments and campaigning in the first place?
COMPLAINING
Keep going to make some of the ones who posted in here look like haters, rp nazis, retarded flamers or by what other means you keep up the bad vibes - I dont care, I luckily wont be here to notice it.
If you dont like despensable arguemnt like this , why do you participate in a WE_HATE_NOOBS_AND_HE_SAID_GUGRONTIG-LETS_FLAME_HIM_THREAD?
Don't render your own as a victim. You participated to nit pick and flame and roast Aturon and me. You took a mere announcement as a reason to write several posts where you basically said nothing helpfull. You verbally kicked our groins that hard that my balls are still blue and swollen. And now you try to render your self as victim. GREAT!
All I have intended to do is a small market. Me and Aturon. And every one else who wants to join. Actually we made a error by offering you that great possibility of attacks. I am done here. To bad that I did not know that an announce mean here means that we have to get a approval from every other player.
You know what? I have enough and take a break. Asta la vista and thanks for the fish.
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Just rotate the market between Hydlaa, Gugrontid and Ojaveda.
Done.
Not really, you are still stuck with finding the Hamiltonian cycle with the least weight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem).
Oh wait no never mind, there are only three cities, so there is only one such cycle.
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ROFL Zwenze, I refrained myself from answering just because I didn't want to contribute to the heat in this thread but now you talk about the drop that brought the overflow?
This is just hilarious. mind you, if we wouldn't have cared at all about the success of the market nobody would have posted here. While you don't seem to be able to take the positive part in our posts (given that it seems that nobody will accept that there wasn't a negative one), you just respond to them with barks and swearings. Re-read the whole thread and notice that YOUR posts are the ones emitting anger and spreading the heat, not ours.
The fact that the thread was opened one day before the event, and that you didn't bother to tell me in game about it at all, and that you were offline on saturday so I couldn't tell you my opinion there is what made me post here... In an attempt to make something _better_ (should I be right in my view or not) out of it. You take it as an offense? Easy. The next time you organize an event announce in the Hydlaa Board and nobody will post their RPnazi-flaming-to-bring-you-down-and-screw-up-your-event.
So the market went well? I'm glad to hear...
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Just rotate the market between Hydlaa, Gugrontid and Ojaveda.
Done.
A fair, rotating market?!?! That just won't do....
So the market went well? I'm glad to hear...
I'm guessing so. I was very happy because i missed the main rush because of a play, and got on about 4 hours after the market began, yet still was able to buy what i needed. :)
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/me wonders why people can't discuss things nicely without taking offense to opposing viewpoints and getting all bent out of shape.......
whatever, good to hear it went for you. any more posts made of the flamey nature will be quenched and that user may find themselves looking at a ban from the forums as stated here: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27887.0
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That won't be necessary
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I feel the need to weigh in... though wonder if any minds are willing to change.
You talk about roleplay and IC... but then you say that it is improper to take the market to the customers.
Really?
So everyone is to act their character the way you think, ignoring real InGAME realities?
Let's look to the real world for an example... Markets are set up where people will buy stuff. freelance markets are set up on busy streets.. some without "permission", either because not needed or because the vendors are willing to risk it. (ever be in a major city downtown? ever?.. what about New York, with the purse vendors...
now Lets look at closer analogy... during gold rush of '49 (and after...) towns sprung up around where miners could sell their gold. Taverns, houses of ill repute, and markets. Because the money and customers were there. Period. the Barons would set up a town as near to mining spots as they could, and competed with other Barons, and their towns, to get the miners to sell there... because it meant money.. and the survival of town.. and his wealth. No one insisted that the miners go all the way back to St. Louis to sell their gold...
what about gas stations... geez, they are always on corners.. and usually near traffic.. esp where people get on and off expressways... same with fast food places... and the stores like walmart spend MILLIONS to find the best locations... Locations based on business, not wishes and dreams.
Now, I doubt Hydlaa will go the way of Dodge city.. or other cities who died out... but please, if you want it to be real roleplay.. then there either needs to be a reason to hang out there... or there will not be people there... Of course the townies (NPCs) will be around... they live there.. and are safer.. but most of the Players are adventurers and hunters and such.. they tend to drift off and do other things. Next I will be hearing how we should not craft in the arena... because it is rude or something... (the sound of the hammer is distracting.. I mean.. I am trying to kill here! he he he)
This issue touches on a lot of other issues.. but Point I am addressing is complaining about the market seeking a location the customers want. That is what markets do. Nothing stopping anyone from having a market set up in the sewer... and if able to sell there, more power to you, I say.
Now, the only issue I see with Gugrontid market... I am unsure how many people will know it is there.. I still check in the plaza... Tavern is kinda out of the way... I would imagine a real market would be set up in center of triangle formed by the mine, Gugrontid proper, and the tunnel back out... trouble is, Without the need for eating... a lot of the miners just seem to be thinking about mining... no hunting.. no weapons.. nothing but digging and selling plat... though I suspect a lot of the precious RPing happens while they mine...
Personnaly, I wonder about commitment to RP.. This is a threat to it? THis is how things would happen if Yliakum was real! (don't we want RPing to be realistic?) How about tells? How can you roleplay having someone interupt you from 20 miles away? I think it is a lil silly to argue about market placement, and not real barriers to roleplay.
But hey, that is just me, right?