PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kaityra on May 21, 2008, 12:30:33 pm
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Since there seems to be an interest of the Art Dept to get to know our opinion we should seize this opportunity. ;D And to fulfill the wish of Xillix to keep the thread Art Dept Poll (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32474.0) simple, I have started this thread, where we can discuss what we think should be implemented right after the "rest of the player races" have been added.
But there may be some undiscovered talents for the other issues. Especially, I think about "Fixes to old areas"... I am certain that you could avoid almost all invisible walls in heightfield maps, by correctly using the heightfield features. I was ... well, at least surprised, to see that you re-used an existing heightfield for the Gugrontid map. And banned half of the area, unnecessarily.
Before the expansion beyond the existing **road maps continues, I really hope that you will consider using the existing unused halves of the maps. Making and editing heightfields is simple when you understood the limits and features. I made a whole map with matching texture layer alpha maps, I just still wait for any kind of feedback about it.
Yes, the replacement of invisible barriers with natural terrain limitations would be nice but I don't think that it is a major issue at the moment. And I don't see any necessity at the moment to expand any map. I think it would be more important to fill up the existing maps with interesting features (creatures, towns or settlements of other races, NPCs, etc.) to make exploring more fun.
But if I had to choose I would say that we need more diversity in existing player models, either by clothing or addition features during the character creation.
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The ability to enchant armors and weapons could be used to visually define characters further...
If the type of enchantment resulted in a color modifation / particle effect etc on the item in question,
and the strength of the enchantment made for the intensity,
and if multiple enchantments were allowed....
it would give us further gameplay options,
lets characters get more diversity in their appeal (eg 'evil' characters could have a dark enchantment on their armor that acts like a shadow around them)
and can be done without new mesh's.
It may even be possible to do this with a few engine tweaks, and the the 'artwork' being defining the effects of different enchantments on existing models and textures.
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Interesting idea there geckolous but do you know if the engine would support such a feature?
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Interesting idea there geckolous but do you know if the engine would support such a feature?
It does not yet, so it is not something to spend time on as art till engine is closer to supporting it ;)
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At a very basic level, it may be possible to tint the color of items (add a tint to the texture).
It'd be a start, and may only be a few lines of code.
(Don't know Crystal Space myself yet, so I'm assuming that'd be a quick job?)
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At a very basic level, it may be possible to tint the color of items (add a tint to the texture).
It'd be a start, and may only be a few lines of code.
(Don't know Crystal Space myself yet, so I'm assuming that'd be a quick job?)
but just changing color will not make all players happy, already we can "shade" hair to give them different color, but armor is not the same and such a shader i am not exists, also there has to be a way to purchance the ablity to change the color or even more. In Short this is a lot of work and i am not sure CS can support shading armor or even other items other then hair.
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I can imagine a few ways to change the appearance of single avatars, using features of OpenGL and the CS engine. But they would require to change the game engine of PS remarkably (to allow a single render step per avatar - which would not at all speed up the game).
Let them first fix more obvious rendering problems, let them implement missing races, and whatever comes before... for now you can look at the character descriptions, and listen to their actions.
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P.S.: Players, please - keep your descriptions tight. I will not read a descriptions which takes pages of scrolling - that is obviously more than one could see while just passing by. This was already suggested a few times.
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We need more coloured lamps, like the one near the old Kran spawn point that is lit blue. I think it is one of the best looking spots in the game ;o)
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Maybe we should keep in mind that things that benefit most players will be implemented more likely. Everybody has something he or she would like to see in the game but is it always something that benefits others as well?
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The ability to enchant armors and weapons could be used to visually define characters further...
If the type of enchantment resulted in a color modifation / particle effect etc on the item in question,
and the strength of the enchantment made for the intensity,
and if multiple enchantments were allowed....
it would give us further gameplay options,
lets characters get more diversity in their appeal (eg 'evil' characters could have a dark enchantment on their armor that acts like a shadow around them)
and can be done without new mesh's.
Particle effects and lights on items are supported (so glowing armour etc). So we could do this quite easily yes.
As for applying colour changes to item meshes, CS does support this and it would be quite trivial for me to write us a shader.
So please don't spread totally false information people ;)
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Mmm.. i like the idea! >o)
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If I may, the one thing that strikes me in the current outdoor zones is that they are very sparse and plain. You've built the basics of the outdoor world, but they just don't seem complete, to me anyway. Just as an example, I've hear rumors of farming taking place, yet there are no farms anywhere. I would also like to see more vegetation and landmark type features. And maybe bound the outdoor zones with billboards of forests or mountains/fog so you don't end up looking out over nothing so often. There are also a few scenes where houses seem to float in the air when you put render to max distance on that could be cleaned up. Weather?
And there is also descriptions of flying mounts and caravans to speed up travel between cities. Has any thought been given to those animations? Before you consider expanding the world again, you may want to address these ideas.
BTW, I voted to beef up the existing zones, so I'm just following up here with my thoughts.
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I found some carrots yesterday, it might be the beginning of a market garden.
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We keep stating and restating, different artists are skilled with different aspects of the game building process.
So the people who build areas are often NOT the people who make mobs, and the people who make mobs may or may not be skilled enough to make character models for the player races.
I wanted to establish these things before people get upset when we add something new despite that fact that older content is not updated, or more desired content is added.
Architecture is easier for people to model than creatures in many cases for instance.
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But Xillix, you mixed up the different "aspects" in your poll as well. Does this mean that "just" because making player models seems to be the hardest job that we won't see this happening despite the result of the poll?
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But Xillix, you mixed up the different "aspects" in your poll as well. Does this mean that "just" because making player models seems to be the hardest job that we won't see this happening despite the result of the poll?
If a person that can model buildings and characters is available, the poll can tell xillix to assign that person to working on a new model instead of a building, if there is time for that. It works the other way around as well, but the devs have their own goals as well if they are working on a new town/city/map and need buildings more then they have time for a character to be made they might go that way. Also in making a model there is skinning it and animations which most of the time is not done by the same person so it takes time to find all the right people with the time.
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To put it in simple terms for clarification. You cannot make character models without 3D modelers, 2D artists and 3D animators. If they are not available then whatever the outcome of the poll, character models will not get made.
You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs, but its even less likely to make one if you have no eggs at all.
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You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs, but its even less likely to make one if you have no eggs at all.
Pizik, that is totally understood, but if the resources are that limited why not check before including the particular "option" in the poll? Otherwise it let's the poll look quite fake if you know what I mean.
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be 3D animator and assure the pool doesn't look fake ;P
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I am not sure I understand some of the frustration coming out of the art poll. Xillix is taking the time to get feedback from the community about what they would like to see in-game. This is in no way a binding contract, or a player commission for work to be done. This is simply trying to get a feel for where the player base would like to see the game go from here.
PLEASE take a few minutes, relax, and remember that you are not paying money for this game. If you have talents that you can share with PS, please do. If you are simply a player, add something to the world of Yliakum and make the place more welcoming for others.
Devs (art, programming, etc)... thanks for making a great game and I can' wait to see where it goes from here. Keep up the good work.
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i think it's great that they are bothering to ask and take the feedback into account, though obviously as stated it can't be seen as 'binding'.
Player races are hands-down my most wanted, at the -very- least the female counterparts to the existing races.
However, a very close second would be more clothing/armor options. I'm a clothes-whore in most games, and I really miss that aspect here.
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hmm well character models and clothing so you can more act out your "role" visually would definately be on my top list. I simply loved the additions of the armorsets. With several races now having three armor sets you have 4 looks to chose from and combo's within those 4 looks (counting your armorfree looks aswell ;) )
BTW couldn't we use the Dermorian model as the replacement model for the other elf races and the humans? It is a lot less a stretch of the imagination then the Ynnwn female that is shown now.
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I am not sure I understand some of the frustration coming out of the art poll.
Then you are free to ask. And if someone has a "problem" with any of my statements here in the forum they are free to address me directly. I can handle it ... sometimes ... when I'm in the right mood. :whistling:
But let me start by saying that there is no frustration. All I wanted to hear was a statement from Xillix. So please Xillix, would you be so kind to answer my question?
In addition let me please explain my point as I feel that it was not understood. Xillix started the poll but included a statement telling that one should only state what should be done next. As several people did not heed this statement I have started this thread in the same light as the poll thread. It was only meant to keep the discussions out of the poll thread. "All of a sudden" Xillix reminded us that certain resources are rather limited. It is a valid statement and a justified reminder that's for sure. But it made me wonder about the options in the poll, especially concerning the result. That's why I have asked. And yes, I think if there are no resources to implement the rest of the player races this option should not have been included in the poll as it might raise false hopes in some people. But this is something that only Xillix can answer.
Finally let me state something in regard to "But this game is free and the devs don't get payed (so please shut up)"-statements. These statement can be used rightly to explain and justify many things but it should never ever be used as an excuse on how you treat people.
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I just would like to my Kra have glowing red eyes :0
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No one has any right to hope :).
I wanted to see what the players wanted most, it is that simple.
Remember we devs sometimes discuss about what to focus on next also and how to apportion our limited resources. Asking the players is a means of showing evidence of certain desires to the other devs.
We thank everyone for the feedback, but don't want to be pushed.
Player desires will not be considered a mandate, they will be one factor (of many factors) in our decisions only.
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Xillix, I demand that you change the settings so that I'm supreme ruler of the world. kthxbye.
:)