PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Fletchbren on June 01, 2008, 03:16:25 pm
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Hello, It has been a very long time since I have played Planeshift and let my start by saying that I am really impressed with the accomplishments its made so far. However I'm noticing a trend in game play that is really starting to upset me. I'm talking about the amount of Power-gaming and Meta-gaming present within the game. More specifically, the 24/7 days a week grinding of skills so that players can become "Uber" for PvP. Now some of this doesn't bother me, for instance I don't mind if someone is killing things all day because at least you could in some way RP that. But what I see enrages me and I think is an insult to what Planeshift stands for. What I see is people, usually experienced players, going to an area for lower levels, hording swarms of clackers/rats/gobles and any weak enemy they can find. Then sitting down in that swarm in order to level their armor skills. Ask yourself this: Would your character in the game ever do anything like that? This is probably the worst example of power-gaming I have seen and is the kind of stuff you see in WoW. I mean why are trepors, and tefusangs, and ulbernauts even in the game if the experienced players who are meant to fight them spend half there time sleeping with rats and clackers... Its a joke, plain and simple. I used to play Planeshift to escape from all the "lol pwnage" and "Uber lewt". But now I see it constantly in this game. Even in the tavern I see people having OOC duels with each other. Its seems that everyone just wants to build up their character to become "Godlike" get the best "loot" and then "Pwn noobs in PvP"...Its really upsetting me, especially when its happening in one of my favorite true role playing games. I just think that people need to take a bigger step in enforcing RP on the server and crack down more on Power gaming. Also Ive seen the word noob used more than ever lately! When I played I don't recall ever hearing people say "Shut up noob" or "Your just a noob". But now its something I hear often. What happened to the game I used to play where people were always helpful to the newcomers and polite to them? What happened to the game where people sought challenging opponents to find and battle? What happened to the game where tolerance and kindness where what I got in the tavern rather than the word "noob" yelled at me...What happened?
~Fletch
P.S: Sorry about the tangent...
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What happened?
What happens to all games that grow in "popularity"...it is adapted to the mainstream.
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What happened?
What happens to all games that grow in "popularity"...it is adapted to the mainstream.
No it is not. It is just not ready yet. Things as not being able to train armor on things that do no harm would solve this, but just is not implemented yet. Feel free to join the team and do so :)
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My suggestion is if you like role play then role play. I hope the more people who role play the less nonsense we will have in game. Though I have to agree with you on one point, today's players are much less helpful and friendly then they were years back. I think that is why those people are gone. It is a different game now. Not better, just different.
Welcome back to PlaneShift. Maybe you can help teach us how the game should be played.
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What happened?
What happens to all games that grow in "popularity"...it is adapted to the mainstream.
No it is not. It is just not ready yet. Things as not being able to train armor on things that do no harm would solve this, but just is not implemented yet. Feel free to join the team and do so :)
Lanarel, I think you got me wrong here. I'm not saying that the devs adapt this game to the mainstream but the community. In the end it is the community that is the game. I'm really sorry for not stating it more clearly, it was really not meant as a criticism of the devs.
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Roleplay lies in our hands, don't complain .. go out there and make it different!
You are not alone. ;)
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Then sitting down in that swarm in order to level their armor skills.
If you see someone doing that it is considered an abuse of the system and you can report them to a GM.
Noob is an officially sanctioned roleplay word as shown in The Nooby Song (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32466.0) thread. It probably wasn't meant to be but that is essentially the effect.
The tavern is not a good place for dueling, but then again alcohol and weapons equals trouble so it is logical. They need a bouncer is all, perhaps someone Levrus has trained to cast a temporary stasis spell. Give the naughty customers a time out.
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Roleplay lies in our hands, don't complain .. go out there and make it different!
You are not alone. ;)
Unfortunately it doesn't feel that way. :( But you are right about the hands and such... :thumbup:
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Roleplaying, most unfortunately, doesn't seem to be PlaneShift's focus. More and more who are attracted by "leveling" are coming making the actual roleplayers going to be some small marginal group.
Votes! Aye, since RolePlayers seem to be outnumbered by Levelers, those too will get the game more into the "mainstream direction".
[With "RolePlayers" and "Levelers", I mean people tending to be more on the one or the other side, since many do both..]
The only thing you, apparently, can do, is searching for those who share your interests.. eg: RolePlaying. But don't leave out the nebwies, I've found many treasures among them.. they needed a mere "introduction to RPing".. someone who helped them to get into it.
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noob is NOT an officially sanctioned role play word prolix.
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Lock the thread please before this turns into yet another 'RP versus PL' discussions that seem to spawn every few weeks.
Yes its an RPg,
yes there are game mechanics,
yes you should only level certain skills and up to point that corresponds to the role you are playing,
yes everyone seems to want to be either 'the best' or RP's skills that are available mechanically
yes people tend to max every skill (group) thus having a character description that doesnt fit the skills they mechanically have obtained
yes its a beta, just wait for the wipe :)
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Someone is ranking themselves up... for PVP? In this game? Are they deranged?
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Roleplay lies in our hands, don't complain .. go out there and make it different!
You are not alone. ;)
Amen to that!
Seriously I don't understand why the RPer's get so worked up about the people who don't RP? Do you see the players who play this game to only level up and leave complaining about to many RPer's? No, because they don't care. So why should the RPer's? Isn't it just easier to ignore them and enjoy what you love about this game, the roleplay? (If your heavily involved in RP I would think you wouldn't even notice those who are not RPing) Isn't it easier to promote Rping and show by example with your Rp's how it is done? I would think if it is super exciting it might even catch the odd ulber leveler interest and they might want to join. Wouldn't that be a much more positive out come rather than chasing away the players because they don't join the game for what you love about it, rather they join because of what they love about it?
Seriously why is this such an issue?
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It is the tyranny of the minority, something we see all too often here in Canada.
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Seriously I don't understand why the RPer's get so worked up about the people who don't RP? Do you see the players who play this game to only level up and leave complaining about to many RPer's? No, because they don't care.
Actually, they do. :\
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My suggestion is if you like role play then role play. I hope the more people who role play the less nonsense we will have in game. Though I have to agree with you on one point, today's players are much less helpful and friendly then they were years back.
Errrm arn't we the players...........:P unless all of you just sit on the forums :P
The point being your a players, so you don't have to mean to new comers, and those that do, well their the minority ;)
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My suggestion is if you like role play then role play. I hope the more people who role play the less nonsense we will have in game. Though I have to agree with you on one point, today's players are much less helpful and friendly then they were years back.
Errrm arn't we the players...........:P unless all of you just sit on the forums :P
The point being your a players, so you don't have to mean to new comers, and those that do, well their the minority ;)
In all fairness it's not just the "non RPers" that give the problems... it's some of the RPers" as well... I mean, for instance... I walk into a tavern to RP a little after leveling up and such, it's a nice break while getting to know more people though no more than 10 minutes in doing so I get threatened and insulted IC for no provocation. The bickering goes on for some time, more people get involved and I hate the hour long rants which has been known to stretch over a week so I propose a duel to settle things, whether outside the city gates or depending on the situation, a fist fight... but oh no, there are those "RPers" (some not been in the game 5 minutes, an alt oe otherwise) that NEVER play the actual game, brag up their characters as some sort of Warrior Hero or something - of which I could swing a ragged battle axe and kill them outright. I mean,"RPers" claim to be what PS is all about... keeping it believable and feasible? I mean, c'mon... anyway, nothing gets resolved, there's constant bickering and gradually annoyance over the constant, draining and time consuming dialogue because the "RPer" doesnt like leveling or duelling but prefers to RP something that they're not. I don't want to "RP a fight" with you ok? lol I've took a long time developing a character and not prepared to be defeated or threatened by someone who is no stronger than a rat, and have them god-mod a fight and win, or not, then complain and complain ooc. I'm kind of sick of reading about how "non RPers" are the problem... it works two ways ;) you expect people to RP? then you play the game! simple! they should be parallel to each other... PS is a game, not purely a chat program... and yes there are people who may say "noob" and "l337" or whatever but PS is a game for all ages and it's more likely than not, a much younger player than yourself...
I suggest if you want to try and get more people to RP, then do so logically and within feasible reason to your character. I have been in and witnessed the most bizarre RPs, decapitations on the streets, demon possessions, and even cults of new Gods... settings? It makes me think, why bother wasting my time RPing with people who act this way? then I see people flaming other people trying to get into RP, trying their best, but apparently not good enough for such and suches standards... you should look at the bigger picture, sure... people don't RP, some don't do it as well as others, but some do and think they can write a book on it... but there are those that are very good, helpful, and very generous but all I am saying is that everyone has a part to play.
As for the power-leveling, I have to admit... I'm guilty of doing this, sitting among clackers to level armor etc but the levels become difficult to advance and costly so this is needed to stay on par with the rest of the PvPers... PvP is something I also enjoy and unfortunatly, I was shown these 'shortcuts' when I first started playing and my philosophy is - if they are doing it, why can't I? but since I have cut down doing such and made my training more believable by, uhm, staying in fullydefensive in a clacker fight... same result but looks better? *shrugs* if there's a shortcut or a corner to cut out, people are going to take it... if you don't, you're going to get left behind ;)
Yes its an RPg,
yes there are game mechanics,
yes you should only level certain skills and up to point that corresponds to the role you are playing,
yes everyone seems to want to be either 'the best' or RP's skills that are available mechanically
yes people tend to max every skill (group) thus having a character description that doesnt fit the skills they mechanically have obtained
yes its a beta, just wait for the wipe :)
SO, after a long winded waffling post.. I agree with Quq... lol
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While it is true that training armor can be a problem because even when the mobs are vulnerable they do not always fight back, fighting ones that cannot hurt you in a fully defensive manner is kind of cheesy to me. It is taking advantage of their mindless nature i.e. their inability to run away when they finally understand they cannot do anything or even stopping the fight because they are tired. You really ought to be trying to kill them, use ruined weapons, feeble magic, or fight more significant critters. Do not get me wrong, I used to do it too on occasion but ultimately figured that it was less important to max out than it was to stay interested.
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Through no fault of anyones NPCs become impervious and have, in the past, been in this state for up to a week. I think people want to get the most out of training (well, I do) while they can but I totally agree what you're saying Prolix, this should be the case - but it largely isn't. I prefer to train on Ulber/Maulbernauts - something with very high hp so it takes a long time to wear down thus giving much training and PP but these options are also popular with many other players.. so I sometimes find myself in the arena clacker pit.
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In real life, could we not train our defensive skills and reflexes against something weak and harmless? Same logic as to why people would fight against a punching bag. It cant hit back. But it is an easy way to train. Why would a character not want to train by going against something obviously weaker than them?
as for the rp vs powerlvler arguement, just how many people do you see running around yelling noob or 1337? lol, smilies, or abbreviations like "tefu" or "hyd" are probably more common.
As to why pvpers are attracted to this game: oddly enough, though this game is meant to be an rp game, it has a unique combat system that is entertaining, easy to learn but hard to master. In my opinion, and perhaps many others, It has a better melee combat system than any other mmorpg out there, including stuff like WoW, guild wars, shadowbane, etc. Its the only one in which movement is so essential. Makes it a bit ironic...
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How much armor training do you expect to get from a five year old having a tantrum and how does it relate to actual combat? Sure at low levels it might have some benefit when you discover you are not wearing the codpiece correctly after little johnny scores a direct hit accidentally but not much else.
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sure, from one five year old. try fending off ten of them at once.
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For the sake of argument... yes... having 3 - 10 10 year olds, or younger, all attacking you at the same time DOES teach you defense and how to move quickly IRL. I know this from experience as a martial artist.
However, given the game mechanics, you have to be hit, but receive no damage to get practice in your armor. If you take damage from the hit, then it doesn't count. If you dodge completely or they miss, you get no practice. If you want to blame something/someone for the use of rats and clackers for armor training, it is the current implementation of the game mechanics. I would happily use higher level creatures and gain practice using my armor going up against ulbers, but they refuse to pull their punches, and if they do damage, i get nothing for it except flesh wounds.
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I seem to get plenty of practice from glads and rogues, they do not last too long for the most part but they are better than rats. The payoff is better too. My armor skills are fair to middling, nothing to write home about and I generally use normal weapons or whatever ones I can craft for myself with my limited crafting skills.
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I try to use a couple of rats and a couple of rogues and go full defensive, but hey... I'd love to gain armor experience while doing my normal hunting of trepors, tefusangs, and ulbernauts... but the way things are set right now, I get almost nothing for armor use when I do that. Such is life, but how else should you go about training armor than to use lower level creatures?
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Well that could be considered exploiting a bug because theoretically fighting such insignificant critters really ought to give no practice. One day you may very well wake up and say "Hey I can't get practice from low level monsters anymore why did you fix it!" To my mind it is clearly wrong and no different that the bugged climbing that was just changed. It is also no different than fighting monsters that do not fight back, particularly the ones you could not fight if they did retaliate. It may be tolerated somewhat but that does not mean you cannot get nailed for it if they decide to enforce it. It is more likely to just stop being an effective technique one day. Seriously how do you explain a bunch of rats teaching you to fend off attacks from an Onyx Dagger? It can't be done.
If you look at crafting the early jobs stop giving practice fairly quick. I never go full defensive, I never go defensive, I mostly just attack normal and my armor skills go up faster than I can pay for them for the most part. Of course I mix my armor to train all three types and do the same with the weapons I have. I ignore magic mostly as you can't do everything. It is slow but it is organic. I have no trouble rationalizing it.
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I am not wanting to start a fight here, but even IRL Martial Arts require that the teachers/trainers/masters pull their punches when trying to teach you new things. You can't just go up against someone that can knock you out in 1 or 2 punches and learn much of anything from the encounter. Maybe "not get hit", but not how to avoid the hits. If there was a practice area where you weren't going to be able to kill things quickly, but at the same time, weren't going to die quickly either, then I would use it. As it stands right now, the game mechanics don't support having higher level critters allowing you to gain armor experience. Call it what you will, but it is what works right now. I personally will not complain if i can work my armor skill when going out hunting as normal. I get very bored sitting there with rats chewing on me and killing my armor. Although it did help me to work on my armor repair skill. :)
[EDIT] I do not mean literally sitting. I am standing, full defensive or defensive. I think it would be very OOC to just literally sit down while being attacked by creatures.
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All I know is that I mentioned to a gm onetime that I saw a player sitting among a bunch of attacking critters that could not hurt him and the gm asked me what the characters name was so that he could take action. The gm seemed to think it was unwanted behavior whether that was just his personal opinion of if it is official policy I cannot tell. I did not note the players name at the time and do not recall which gm I was talking to either. It does seem to go against the philosophy of the game however you want to justify it for yourself. You are power leveling and not role playing.
If that is what you want to do be my guest. I do what makes sense for my character to do and not whatever I can do to optimize training. It has been a fair few levels since I fought ulbernauts because my drive by slice and dice technique became much less effective. I might try again but I will admit that if the ulber never is in range when it attacks you won't get any armor practice.
Parting shot -- which real life martial artist that I may have heard of trained to the top of his field fighting only feeble opponents?
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I do dislike power levelers, I also dislike god modders. It's all about finding a decent medium but, if there is one power leveler it will cause others to power level in order to keep their 'strongest warrior' RP. RPers do need to train, it really is annoying at the beginning but it gets better. Nurahk (though he was once near maxed out) is amazingly weak but, every few days he'll be seen hacking at a rat or gobble or what not trying to get a little bit stronger.
Either way, just wanted to say I really enjoyed Ulfer's post. Was quite refreshing to hear the other side.
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Really I think it indicates a flaw in the implementation. You really should get no benefit from behavior like that. In the crafting the easy jobs stop giving practice as the more difficult one come available. Combat should be the same. Similarly with magic there should be contextual consequences for casting magic for the sole purpose of practice. Standing there and casting rock armor over and over and never going into combat is just ridiculous. One ought to have some respect or awe of the arcane. Really when you see one of these people casting over and over without stopping it makes you think of obsessive/compulsive disorder. Some kind of mania. And doing it by the trainer ought to annoy him immensely.
It is understandable from an out of context perspective.
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indeed im new so i dont know what it was like before but it would be nice to see a comunity purely focused on roleplaying i mean i tryed to interact with someone and they just ran off its becoming increasingly hard to find peaple who will actually interact :(
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This is so sad to hear Kaiser. There is no need to talk about the past and how it was. We need to go forward and make new role players. I hope you can start a new trend and help people role play too. Please do not give up. We are out there.
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Look for these guys and gals (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) and add your name to the list if you're a RPer too.
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/me sighs grinning
You know I've followed whole discussion here and it's funny somehow :)
It's almost like debating what is more important in lasagne : pasta or tomatoes or maybe cheese :P
What I'm trying to say that both of this elements are important. And as long as they come along together there's no need to make no "siding" :)
Idea of rpg is a conversation with other people as well as interaction with environment.
First one is a roleplay second one are stats. It would be unnatural to just roleplay or just to level up.
Sometimes I don't want to make errands or kill anything, so I just sit somewhere chatting with my friends.
Sometimes I don't feel like talking so I just going to get some hides or do some questing.
In my opinion the most important word here is BALANCE \\o//
There is time for rp and for lvl as well. Just to anyone can do whetever he like at the moment.
Greets :)
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Elwu, you are so right. :sorcerer:
I roleplay.
I go hunting.
I fiddle with crafting.
I do quests, both large and small.
I hew monsters down wholesale just for PP (not just, but close).
I enjoy the game in all its aspects
...because that's what it is: a GAME
So enjoy it people - live and let live - or in this case: RP and let PL
(and vice versa) :) Who knows, a little good might rub off on both sides ;)
*Bakin growls while adjusting his Battle Axe* Now git yer ass in-game and play, for Laanx' sake!
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Bakin_Fundinson.... i couldn't have said it better.
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/me smiles
I enjoy the game in all its aspects
That's the point :) and main purpose of entertainment :)
And believe me there will be more to enjoy
/me smiles mysteriously
Details soon tm. . :)
BTW Good to know that some people keep it fresco
Greetings