PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Caarrie on June 17, 2008, 09:51:37 pm
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People are always complaining that things are not getting done yet they dont use the bug tracker to give info to help get things done. What can anyone in the testing or dev teams do [or gm team] to help get more players to report issues and bugs to the tracker? Without anyone reporting issues it takes longer to get them found and hence longer to get them fixed. Right now we have a lot of coding prospects so keep the bugs coming to keep them busy and you will get them fixed. We are here to help you enjoy the game better, in order to do this we need you guys to report your bugs to the tracker. Just using the tracker to report issues related to settings, does not help the engine team make the game better. Remember there are many teams that make up PS and you have to offer help to all of them, So that means it is your job as a player of this game to report any issues you find to the tracker. Stop reporting all issues to the forum and put them on the tracker. Dont be suprised if you are asked to use the forum in some cases, sometimes we can help you better here then on the tracker.
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My hope is that people will view ps not as a PRODUCT to be consumed, but as a project everyone participating in must contribute to make possible.
Complaints and wishes are a shallow echo of the efficacy of a bug report.
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In the past various bugs have been discovered due to casual conversation on the forum or IRC. The persons involved simply assumed that the bug was known, while it was not. If you discover an issue in-game, this should be your train of logic:
- Has his version of PlaneShift just been released? If so, is my issue part of the "known issues" in the changelog?
- Is my bug known? You can check the first page of the bugtracker which contains the most important bugs, and you can use the handy search option. Be sure to check for "all reports" and not just "open reports" as the issue you're looking for might have already been fixed and thus the report closed!
- If the issue is not mentioned in the changelog under known issues and not present on the bugtracker, report it.
What To Do If You Want To Help Out, But You're Lame?
It happens, you find an issue, but you're too lame to report it. Instead of not reporting it at all, you can make a blind bug report ("just report it") or make a petition about it. It'll mean more work for the GMs and the Testing Team in case of duplicates, but in all honesty, I'd rather have some duplicates than unknown bugs or exploits ;)
What Is A Bugtracker?
It's a place where we track bugs, it's a vital tool for the development of this game. It can be found >> here (http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/)<<. Enjoy!
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I think that some questionable issues are better discussed on the forum or on irq before posting to the bugtracker. As some of you know I am no stranger to the bugtracker, bilbous currently has 21 reports open, I had 20 on the old tracker. There are some things I do hesitate to post as they are not really bugs but rather are conceptual design issues. I point them out here because I hope that someone can give me an idea why they were chosen the way they were. If I get a reason I can accept I have no need to make a report. If the reason just seems to be because that is how we did it I can't accept that. I can accept because we could not do it any other way and still achieve the goal and I will offer a suggestion if I can. My suggestions may not be helpful of themselves, though that is the intention, but they might trigger a new way of looking at the problem by someone in a position to do something about it.
Is the bug-tracker really the place for conceptual discussions? Is the complaint department where my thread (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32686.0) got moved to?
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if there is clearly no reason for something to be as it is it is a bug.
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People are always complaining that things are not getting done yet they dont use the bug tracker to give info to help get things done. What can anyone in the testing or dev teams do [or gm team] to help get more players to report issues and bugs to the tracker?
First of all; Im guilty and will try to have more often a look in bugtracker and maybe my experiences will then be different from what they are yet.
What can be done by the dev/testing teams is imho to be more responsive towards players. Each time I maybe only ask for any opinion of the 'team' or when I offer help the reaction is usually no reaction at all. (Latest example was my pretty strange technical problem in http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32658.0 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32658.0) where Im not sure if ps-bugtracker is the right place for).
I think it would be better in a community project if all sides show interest of working together - this is from player/my side to focus more on the bugtracker and from 'official' side to be more responsive to player questions and informations.
Apart from the working together atmosphere that I regard important - and along with it - is might simply be necessary to point players more often to the bugtracker (e.g. answer to my linked post that I shoud put it there).
Hmm, my post took a different direction than I wanted to, but maybe some get the point :)
Sen
#edit# Got replies to the linked posts minutes after posting this - thank you for the answers
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What can be done by the dev/testing teams is imho to be more responsive towards players. Each time I maybe only ask for any opinion of the 'team' or when I offer help the reaction is usually no reaction at all. (Latest example was my pretty strange technical problem in http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32658.0 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32658.0) where Im not sure if ps-bugtracker is the right place for).
if you do post on the tracker and it is best on the forum we will nicely close the bug report with a message to you to use the forum instead for such issues.
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I can't find it anymore, and maybe it is not true, or already deleted. But I remember reading once somewhere on an official PS website that reporting bugs will be rewarded.
I don't think that it is a good idea to reward reporting bugs with IC rewards, but I just wanted to throw this in.
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I can't find it anymore, and maybe it is not true, or already deleted. But I remember reading once somewhere on an official PS website that reporting bugs will be rewarded.
I don't think that it is a good idea to reward reporting bugs with IC rewards, but I just wanted to throw this in.
there was a thread about it being proposed, but I don't believe it was ever instigated.
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There is no reward other than a better game.
We do not have the time to personally respond to every post here sen, the bug tracker is the favored tool for actually getting things fixed.
If players actually care about improving the game the bugtracker is one of the best ways to go about it.
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I have not read anything but the initial post, but one thing that would likely help is to not require so @$#@# many logins. I have a login for the game, another for the forums, and yet another for the bug tracker. This is going to keep many people from bothering with the bug tracker. I know this is a technical issue because you are using three different software packages and at least two different servers, but it is a serious turn-off to some and a significant hurdle to others.
I have also seen some negative experiences others have had with posting reports on the bug tracker. Not everyone that you want reporting bugs is going to be a experienced tester that can give the correct details needed to reproduce the problem. This tends to cause frustration because the bugs get closed as "not a bug" but the offending functionality remains. I don't know if a document exists, but having a page that lists an example of the ideal bug report might be helpful. Questions to include might be:
1. Have you seen this issue more than once?
1a. How long has this been happening?
2. How you think things should work?
3. How is it working now?
4. Steps to reproduce:
This will help a lot of non-coders/testers provide the appropriate details. Worst case, if you can include these as multiple required fields in the bug tracker. Right now there is only a single free-form text box for providing details.
Just my 2 trias since you asked...
[EDIT] What returns if I do a search for something that is "hidden"? Will it then allow me to see it? There are likely to be numerous bugs that are already logged and people get told "duplicate of X, closed" when there was no way for them to see the original report. Then likely, that one gets hidden too because it has details that shouldn't be disseminated. I personally have had a good response on the bug tracker, but i have read through many reports that had less than friendly responses. Please always be aware that while most people are not technical enough to provide good details, the fact that they reported anything shows that they are trying.
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This will help a lot of non-coders/testers provide the appropriate details. Worst case, if you can include these as multiple required fields in the bug tracker. Right now there is only a single free-form text box for providing details.
Just my 2 trias since you asked...
the tracker does not support this function.
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Does that mean we need to file a Feature Request on the flyspray website? :)
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Does that mean we need to file a Feature Request on the flyspray website? :)
That would be something internally the testing team would have to decide, i dont see how it would help much as not all bugs require that info.
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The way we handle that where I work is simply allow a N/A in fields that are not required in all circumstances. Is it possible to have a predefined text string in the comment box when the bug is created? Something like a template? Maybe have a link on the page that says "unsure what to do, click here" and take them to an example page that lists a crash, a feature request, and whatever else might be useful.
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What returns if I do a search for something that is "hidden"?
You will not find that on the bug tracker unless you are the one who opened it. I have one or two bugs in that state and I have to log in to the tracker in order to see them, even if I receive an email notification of new developments in them.
What happened to me is that some discussion went on in my report and there was another related bug that was also hidden that I cannot see. In a case like this your bug may be marked as a duplicate if it is not different enough or it may remain open. You will be able to see your bug. If you are on the team it may be different.
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I think the main problems are not in that there are no fields showing you what information you should give:). There are many different bugs, requiring different information, and fields for all these (N/A for severa fieldsl in many reports) will not make it easier to read :). The test team will ask for information if it is missing. Our main task could be seen as to make sure the reports include necessary information, so we will ask the reporter if it is missing. The main thing we ask, is that the person reporting a bug, will stay around to ask our questions.
About hidden bugs: they are mostly describing major exploits, or spoiler information in quests. If you make a duplicate of such a bug, no-one will complain, but if there is no new information in the report, it will be closed as a duplicate, without giving the reporter access to the hidden original. Also, the current version of the bug tracker we use, has some limitations in allowing someone to see it, which is one of the reasons we will not normally give someone access besides the reporter, test team, and interested devs. Hopefully an update of the tracker (which requires newer version of software on the server) will make this a bit easier.
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also to add to this, at any one time we on average about 3-4 testers that are activtly reading the tracker and following bugs. Each of us are tracking many bugs and are trying to pick up the new ones that are reported each day. If we are not able to confirm the issue and do request further information and dont get any it makes it much harder if not impossible for us to verify the bug and try to request it to be fixed. If you do make a report please make sure you watch your email and watch the bug report for further comments from us requesting information and please try to post the requested information so we can help get the issue fixed. If you are asked to post information and dont have current access to the information atleast post that you know you are requested to post and will asap or when you can. If you do not post infomation we will close the bug if no one can duplicate it, but you can always request it to be reopened and we will if you give the requested information and we are able to confirm the issue.
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Hello all..
Sometimes I encounter things that I may consider as a bug. As Xillix pointed: "if there is clearly no reason for something to be as it is it is a bug".. -This is still vague definition for me, yet I cannot think of a better one.
I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.
I dunno about the correct procedure but as I am also checking into IRC constantly, next time I find some weird thing, I'll bring it up to IRC as it works IMO as a good filter for "known issues". Then, I'll see how to take it to the tracker.
If you guys have suggestions for doing it better, lemme know.
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Advanced search will let you find closed threads, you still won't see the hidden ones. Another thing useful in the advanced search is to search details and comments. You may find a bunch of unrelated stuff but you ought to get more hits. I go on irc rarely but sometimes if I think I have found a bug I will ask on #planeshift-build. Sometimes it is hard to get an answer because there is either no-one there or they are busy, but other times they can point you in the right direction. It may be that what you have found relates to bug X that they can point you to where you should make a comment instead of making a completely new report. A lot of times I get no response there so just end up posting a new report.
The big thing as mentioned before is to follow your bugs. You can get email notification so it is not difficult.
Another thing I like to do is to browse the task list to see if anything strikes a chord with me and I'll look at the comments and possibly add my two cents. Of course if you do this then you should follow these bugs as well. Just remember the developers have the final say so give your input but do not flog it once a decision has been taken. Often there will be several points of view expressed as to how it should be dealt with but ultimately it is up to the person who is going to deal with it and whoever is above him on the seniority list.
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I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.
I dunno about the correct procedure but as I am also checking into IRC constantly, next time I find some weird thing, I'll bring it up to IRC as it works IMO as a good filter for "known issues". Then, I'll see how to take it to the tracker.
If you guys have suggestions for doing it better, lemme know.
If you wish to report bugs when ingame to the gms please use /petition and NOT /report. If you are not sure if it is known or not, report it anyone on the tracker it is easier for us to follow and get feedback from you if you do, if it is known we will close it. It is actually better to report a bug that is a duplicate then not report it at all. By reporting it again we get it confirmed it is still an issue and might get more information from the new report to add to the old one. You could also as on irc in #planeshift-build if it is a known issue and if so then you can add your info to the existing report.
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That was helpful.. ty both
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I've been kinda discouraged to use/report to bugtracker for seeing the recurrent "it's a known issue" phrase in IRC once a user brings up some old bug or problem. By no means I'm asking to change something on that. It's just that I cannot tell if it's a known issue or not. And the fact that the bug data has deleted or closed threads, makes it more dificult for me.
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Devs who work on bugs have 1000 things in mind and will write a quick "dupe of #XYZ - closed". This can be frustrating. But try to think in what the condition the dev at that moment is. He has to think of other bugs, 1000 lines of code and other stuff. In such a state you write as short and precise as possible, like comments in code. So if you read "dupe of #XYZ - closed", interpret it as:
Dear bugreporter,
thank you for your effort to report this bug. We allready know about that issue as it was also reported in bug number #XYZ and will work on it as soon as possible. Have a nice day and enjoy planeshift.
Your developer team
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I have found out that some people dont even know where the advanced search feature is on the bug tracker. Here is a short video you can watch on how to find and use the advanced search feature to get more search results. You will not get private bugs in your search unless you made the bug or you are assigned to it [in the case of testers/gms/devs]. As you can see in the example i used the phrase updater as my search string and got a few different number of bugs depending on what settings i selected in the advanced search box. [i am not a professional video taker :P so take it for what it is worth] It is about 1 minute long and should not take all that long to download for most people.
http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/bluedoglov/planeshift/?action=view¤t=SafariScreenSnapz001.flv (http://s21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/bluedoglov/planeshift/?action=view¤t=SafariScreenSnapz001.flv)
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Zwenze... you are thinking like a coder. You are not thinking like a non-techie. I spend most my days over the last 5 and a half years being a pass-through for end users and coders. Unfortunately a lot of coders really don't have much in the way of people skills. Is it really that much more difficult to come up with some polite boiler plate to put in the ticket instead of a very brief "dupe of XYZ - closed" that makes the user that reported it feel like they didn't really do anything worthwhile?
I think that you/we are kind of in a catch-22. The coders feel like their efforts are unappreciated, but so do the users that are doing their part and getting a brush off. Do I have all the answers? no. Have I come up with a spiderman decoder ring for translating end user < - > coder? Um... i am still employed... so again... no.
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Mythryndel, you have a point, but you also seem to like picking nits.
You are welcome to act as coder apologist.
We don't have time to send everyone flowers.
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Xillix.... guilty as charged... at least on occasion. The thread topic is, at least in my mind, asking why people aren't just tripping over themselves to report bugs. This is one of the things I see as a reason for this. I deal with this on a daily basis professionally. Non-technical people who aren't given at least a marginally personal response are going to be inclined to not bother providing information in the future. That is why so many companies spend so much time and effort on customer service. That is also why the person on the other end of the phone is a non-techie reading from a script instead of a real tech...
I understand that PS does not have a budget for such things. But if you don't at least treat people that report bugs as people, instead of a faceless, nameless incident reports, then they aren't going to continue trying to help. All the while, the techies, are sitting around scratching their heads wondering why the people don't assume as Zwenze does that X = Y.
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Personally I can handle a bit of abruptness although I do tend a little towards paranoia. Still first steps should be encouraged, it does not take much to add "Thank you for the report" to "Dupe of flyspray 666 -- closed." You do not need to do it all the time but if you do not recognize the poster there is a good chance they are new. Close my bugs I do not mind, I have been around for a while and done this stuff elsewhere too. You want to encourage the faint of heart, just as you want to encourage the non role players.
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I think we all need some counseling . . .
/me sends prolix and myth a carebear and a snork
In the mean time I have players complaining incessantly and only one real means to get things done.
If you want someone to hold your hand, if you need customer service reps go PAY wow, in the mean time we need help.
multi-million dollar company vs. group of witty committed (committable?) devs . . .
cry me a river, then whitewater raft your ass to the bug tracker.
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lets see there are 5 testers or so there are 531 open bugs or so. so that leaves about 100 bugs per tester to keep track of if not more as we tent to work together. We dont always have time to check and see if the person is a first time bug reporter and be nice when we close the bug as a dup. We do have a rl as well as spending hours helping out planeshift. I personally have some time i could be a little nicer but i dont have all the time in the world, as it is it might take 15+ minutes at times to find the bug that it is a dup of depending on what terms i search with. I also have other things i have to work on and so do the other testers. Which would you want,
closed dup of bug xxx
or dup closed
atleast we do take the time to find what bug it is a dup of so that you can go and add info to the orginal bug if needed. We are trying to work with all, we are still in the process of making rules for all of us to work with. When we get rules that players need to know other then the guides posted on the tracker we will make sure you guys get them. As a tester we do a lot of work not all is just on the tracker and visable to all of you to see. Like right now we are working on stuff for Talad and the dev team. We also have internal tasks we have to do to help make our own job easier. You want a better testing team that has more time to talk to players and work out when and if bugs should be reported, take time to talk to us about joining the team.
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Zwenze... you are thinking like a coder. You are not thinking like a non-techie.
Because I am one :)
I spend most my days over the last 5 and a half years being a pass-through for end users and coders. Unfortunately a lot of coders really don't have much in the way of people skills. Is it really that much more difficult to come up with some polite boiler plate to put in the ticket instead of a very brief "dupe of XYZ - closed" that makes the user that reported it feel like they didn't really do anything worthwhile?
I see the problem from both sides. Those who close a bug should be a bit more polite and giving more positive feed back. Those who report bugs should try to see the bug tracker as a technical platform and don't feel offended when there is little or no sign of appreciation there as the developers are focusing on the problem and how to fix it.
For my self I can say I am a really bad multitasker. When I am in "development mode", I can code and I am concentrated on coding details and such stuff - every thing else including communication skills lacks then. When I am in "social mode" I can talk to people and see their point but I miss the necessary concentration to do really serious development stuff. And a switch between modes takes some time.
I am around in game and on IRC often. If you feel that a bug I have worked on is closed in an inappropriate way or my fix I delivered is not complete or lacking feel free to nudge me there as your chances in catching me in "social mode" are higher. And there you can have signs of appreciation like "that was a really helpful bug report as it helped me to pin point and fix the real problem fast, great work, thanks a lot".
BTW, I never closed one as I don't have the authority :) I made my previous post to describe the "is" situation and to explain what is happening to ease the frustration of those who reported the bug. But the point is taken, if I am working on bugs submitted by non coding guys I will add some coffee and cookies to my bug tracker posts in future ;)
I think that you/we are kind of in a catch-22. The coders feel like their efforts are unappreciated, but so do the users that are doing their part and getting a brush off. Do I have all the answers? no. Have I come up with a spiderman decoder ring for translating end user < - > coder? Um... i am still employed... so again... no.
We all are still growing, developing PlaneShift and our skills and also improving our self every day. Give us some time :flowers:
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Zwenze, Xillix, Carrrie... I understand completely. I deal with the same things professionally every day. I am trying to help the game. I have run into some RL issues that have kept me from doing as much testing for PS as i would like. I have submitted, hopefully helpful and detailed, bug reports. I know what it is like trying to juggle my time and still do "paperwork".
In thinking about this some more... maybe it would be a good idea to have a forum discussion area for newer players (or non-technical players) to report things in a informal setting until they get a feel for what is needed from the technical side. At least in the short term (read as at least a few months), i would be happy to monitor that forum area and take the necessary details and create a well-formed bug tracker ticket. If this doesn't work well, chuck it up as a lesson learned. I am probably naive, but I think this would help bridge the gap and make peoples submissions feel more appreciated. That way the technical people and the non-technical people don't have to get offended by each other.
Please understand that I do understand the limited amount of time people have. I see a LOT being done in the game on a regular basis. I am not hurt or offended by short, curt responses in the tracker... but i am a coder and a techie. I am just trying to do what I can to help support your efforts.
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:) I just like to mess with people some times . . .
Maybe we can have it give some automated msgs of some sort, you know like what happens if I write the President of the United States . . .
Impersonal automatic niceties spammed upon the closing of a bug.
The idea about more detailed fields has merit, though my concern would be diminishing returns. Time spent making the bug tracker speak to the non-techie is time lost fixing bugs/processing reports . . . cost benefit analysis . . .
How about some of the people who complain all the time about various things place their comment here also?
Some rpers maybe?
If you don't use the bugtracker, why don't you?
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We want people to use the tracker and idealy not even mention bugs on the forum, making a temp "bugs" forum section would not only waste our time trying to get info from the "reporter" but waste your time as you would have to help us in contacting the person that reported the issue.
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Carrrie... i'm still willing to do the leg work if you want to give it a try. That way you and yours don't have to do that leg work and hopefully when a report hits the tracker, it is already in a form that you can just take and run with. I can even try to reproduce on my own test system before posting so I can fill in any missing details on exactly what caused the offending functionality (assuming i can get it working again).
I am not trying to force this on anyone... just know that I understand what I am offering to get myself into. I am ready, willing, and able to do what I offered if TPTB in PS want to take me up on it.
All i ask in return is a few snorks... you can keep the carebears... :)
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I am glad to see that those posting here are pretty much in agreement. There is just one thing I want to know and that is where can we have the conceptual discussions that I think are necessary? Every time I try to get one started someone or other thinks it is just complaining or is an excuse for complaining and the threads die before they get anywhere. Is there a game concept tag for the bug tracker? Some things are not really wrong but they could be more right. Some design choices are made because that is how the person doing it could figure out how to get it done. Maybe a new sub-forum of Development Deliberation would be useful, it seems less used down there so maybe there will be less noise to the signal.
Otherwise, is it possible to let the complainers complain and speak around them? I know misery loves company but commiseration does not really get anywhere and berating the complainers just adds more. I have no problem with paying lip service to the complaints (commiseration) as long as there is also some real substance to the comment. A "spoon full of sugar" and all that. Castigating people who are laying there whimpering is counter productive.
I do understand the development team has their frustrations but the rest of us have a few as well.
Remember: good snorks are never snarky! or is that good smurfs are always smarmy...?
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heh, I thought we sorted that out. A lot of times it just seems like nit-picking. I am not saying it is not stuff that should get done eventually, but remember when the npc client is often down it is hard to care whether the master rock pick is harder to use than that rock pick.
I mean, sure I can create a sub forum that I also ignore (like most devs now do) or you can have me occasionally say something is not worth our attention right now.
Remember the is A LOT to track.
Moving forward, looking back, reading forums, monitoring irc, etc etc etc.
With as much as you are already doing prolix, you should just surrender and apply to the testing team or another of your choice, believe me having the inside track is quite illuminating. . .
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/me puffs out his jowls in a most Churchillian manner.
"I Wear My Sunglasses At Night" 1Thank you very Much!
"Mommies alright, Daddies alright, they just seem a little weird!"2 No wait, that's wrong ....
"They carry news that must get through
To build a dream for me and you" That's the ticket!3
"We will never surrender!"4
I'm not saying it always has to be about things that have already been developed, and it isn't always about little things either.
For example I take issue with the apparent plan to have all skills have the same number of levels. What the heck is 200 metallurgy supposed to give you? What ore will you be unable to smelt before you max it out and how can it be that much harder than iron? I suppose it will not be an ore but creating an uber alloy but that is beside the point. Why is it harder to melt gold than to create steel? Why can't you make a sandwich with beginning cooking? How many levels do you need to make a finished meal? Sure it is early days for cooking right now and I am glad to have something.
I suppose I would have to join the team to discover how much consideration these factors rate. From the outside a lot of it looks cobbled together on an ad hoc basis. I am sure it looks worse than it really is.
So is there a design team or is it just whatever you can get Talad to agree to or even anything he does not outright reject after implementation? Are there some people looking at the whole or are you teams isolated in your cubicle farms, so to speak?
1. Corey Hart - no not that song rather "Never Surrender" Ohh what crummy Can-con!!!
2. Cheap Trick - "Surrender" - ha-ha fooled you.
3. Led Zeppelin - "No Quarter" - two bits a play!
4. Winston Churchill. "...on the beaches..." - speaks for itself.
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this thread has gone on long enough with people not seeing the true issue that we face here
no one is giving me cookies.
:whistling:
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/me gives neko a tracking cookie and starts monitoring his travels.
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So is there a design team or is it just whatever you can get Talad to agree to or even anything he does not outright reject after implementation? Are there some people looking at the whole or are you teams isolated in your cubicle farms, so to speak?
There is no design team, we all make suggestions to talad and he has to approve them. If you are on the dev team you have an advantage there ;) . We are looking for people that have skills to talk to people in all teams, but that is not a requirement. We do have ways to contact the other teams so we are not working on our own. Especially the testing team cant live if we have no contact with the other teams, we need devs and prospects to fix the bugs.
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come on people what is keeping you from using the tracker to report bugs? Let us know so many we can make the process easier or change things so you will.
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Fear of actually writing something and lack of knowledge - what to write? how to write? what do I need in the report? etc. Too much time playing PS and not thinking about bugs. These are some of the reasons I haven't.
I have a whack of quest 'bugs' I need to submit too (but those need to go directly to Rizin).
I need to just get started and see if these things that I experience have been listed before - you know like that partial tunnel blockage between the Magic Shop and Hydlaa that only seems to be a problem when I hit it? - I back up, shift left or right and go through - and the thought of actually submitting flees as I run towards EBD. Is it just me? Is it just Ylians? Is it only when I am loaded? Or is it only when I am wearing my horned helmet?
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Fear of actually writing something and lack of knowledge - what to write? how to write? what do I need in the report? etc. Too much time playing PS and not thinking about bugs. These are some of the reasons I haven't.
Make the report and if we need more information we will always ask you for more. Or start off by giving even more information then you think is needed.
I need to just get started and see if these things that I experience have been listed before - you know like that partial tunnel blockage between the Magic Shop and Hydlaa that only seems to be a problem when I hit it? - I back up, shift left or right and go through - and the thought of actually submitting flees as I run towards EBD. Is it just me? Is it just Ylians? Is it only when I am loaded? Or is it only when I am wearing my horned helmet?
I have not off hand seen a report of this, so please make one and include all the above information it will be helpful for us testers when testing it. Also include what maps you might have been though before you got there.
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Currently I am managing the prospect hiring for all departments and am the closest thing you get to someone who is looking at the whole. By periodically playing the game as a noob character, scouring the forums for useful info (much less rewarding than it seems sry) as well as asking the prospects to constantly test quests and other content to broaden their knowledge, I take one of the broadest views of the state of things available atm.
Talad ultimately does quality control for all creative assets. In the is way he is another person looking at the whole picture. Game balance is attempted in broad strokes here or there, this is why feedback via the bug tracker is essential.
You all must realize that keeping up with hundreds of players and ~ 50 to 100 on and off prospects/contributors is an intense labor and the primary merit of the bug tracker is that it breaks this task into smaller more manageable bits that go directly to people who can actively affect the change you seek. So please do give it a try.
The dev team has weekly meetings where everyone is apprised of what all depts have been up to in the previous week so the most active contributors have a good sense of what is going on.
I hope this answers some of your concerns and speaks to why I can occasionally be a bit snarky. My perpetual sarcasm is my defense against the unending mountain of work to be done to bring you planeshift.
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come on people what is keeping you from using the tracker to report bugs? Let us know so many we can make the process easier or change things so you will.
What first kept me from it was the registration email never arriving (yes, the one for the tracker). I have no spam protection for the adress I used so it cannot have ended up deleted. It just never showed up. That was a bit annoying. I waited over 24 hours and nothing happened. Must have been over a week now and it still didn't show up. And I couldn't find a way to have it resent. :-/
By now I created another account and that mail thankfully made it into my inbox. It works now for me and Rizin even fixed a bug I reported yesterday over night. :)
The bugguide is a great help to me for reporting bugs especially for selecting the right category and severity. So whoever is unsure about reporting - it's definately a big help. It may be long but worth reading!
edit: Now I'm wondering - shall I make a bug report about the missing registration mail? Must check if something like that is on the tracker already...