PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Grigori on July 31, 2008, 05:25:04 pm
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I played a bit in 0.3.19. And I remember there were much more people. Is it because of nonflexible npc-based tutorial?
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If someone leaves because they can't track down the guide for the tutorial (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30436.0), they're a little silly.
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I believe the tutorial was put in place to help people and not to send them away. #planeshift on IRC has many helpful people for those who have trouble. Of course the guide works as Parallo already stated.
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If someone leaves because they can't track down the guide for the tutorial (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=30436.0), they're a little silly.
Well I had some background and even for me tutorial was a bit complicated with all "beauty" of npc dialogue
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If you give details as to the problems you had Grigori I am sure the devs will be more then happy to address it. Btw, did you finish it and get into game?
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The reason there weren't as many people now in 0.3.020 as there were in 0.3.019 is lighter2, not tutorial world.
Also I've noticed there aren't a whole lot of people who have advisormode turned on. Most of the questions that appear there are tutorial related.
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Well, since the tutorial has the same features as the "real" game, I don't see how the tutorial could harm the game more than the "real" game does. So I think the question shouldn't be "Does the tutorial harm the game?" but "Do we loose players due to flaws in the game?".
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If you give details as to the problems you had Grigori I am sure the devs will be more then happy to address it. Btw, did you finish it and get into game?
Of course I finished it.
It is not my problem. It was impossiible not to notice there are fewer players now if to compare to 0.3.19. I remember when I was new in game I always asked other players. In tutorial world there is noone to ask except help channel advisor and npc, who always ask to paraphrase.
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I have been thinking about the tutorial a bit too. I'm not going to criticize because it contains very helpful information indeed. The problem seems to be more our human nature.
When I first started the game, there was no tutorial and I could explore as much as I wanted and when I wanted the world of Yliakum. Whereas the player in the tutorial is like a rat in a box. Isolated from the world, he has to go through the quests the NPCs give him if he wants to get out of there. Not much to do on the tutorial map so there is only one way: OUT. This contributes to a negative attitude of the player towards the tutorial because it becomes more a hindrance than a helpful resource. Moreover, the player is confronted with all kinds of information. It may get frustrating for some people. If you haven't played this kind of games before, you need to learn a lot in a short time. And it doesn't always go well. But then again I have seen people who start such money and pp intensive activities like crafting in their first days.
Many people come to PS and want to see what it is about and if they like it and they want it quick. They don't have the time to sit back and read what the NPCs tell them. Aye, humans, always in a hurry ;D.
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The same type of thinking for the OP can be applied to the following statement:
"I played back when we could hunt crystals. Seems now most people from them are now gone. Removing crystal hunting from the game harms the game."
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It was impossiible not to notice there are fewer players now if to compare to 0.3.19.
Isn't it the quality of the player, not the quantity that matters?
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I see more playing... more role playing too... it may be a time zone thing? and nothing to do with the tutorial at all.
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If you expect people to go and search for a walktrough for a TUTORIAL(OMG 3v1L C4PZ), then you are the silly one. If a student is willing to learn, but dosn't get it, the fault mostly lies in the teacher, the tutorial in this case.
My proposal would be to teach only NPC interaction and some other basic stuff(definitely not crafting) and the give the noob directions to other NPCs in the actual gaming world, who can explain certain areas in greater detail. Having to go trough the tutorial is just annoying and the first impression is the most important after all(you either stay or go). Old players might know what goodies await them after they complete the tutorial, so they painstakingly endure it, but new players don't, so they just give up. By all means, a tutorial is necessary, but not one that is so complicated(it has mostly to do with the fact that most game mechanics are original and not cloned from a random Asian mmorpg and even in random Asian mmorpg x, the player gets to know the game mechanics in small steps). I think, this game is supposed to be about player interaction, so give the noobies what they came here for.
A lot of players might say: if they don't get it, we don't need them anyway. Well, in that case PS will never have a large player base.
And yes, the tutorial is helpful, but just too annoying, like a text book on differential geometry.
Oh, and im from an ancient time when crystal hunting still existed, in fact i like it better than the current mining system. Could be a cool way to gather herbs tho.
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It seems to me like there is less disruptive OOC chat than there was before the tutorial. In my eyes, that makes it definitely a good thing.
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if you have ideas for changes to just the tutorial post them or email/pm them to rizin
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=30268
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I've been an advisor fairly often. I will point out that around 75-90% of questions center around the tutorial, especially the first and second npcs. Occasionally, there are questions that can be solved fairly easily, such as the unkillable rats and the inability to leave. But when you hear something about Neave, the problem can be almost unsolvable without a link to the FAQ. These first two seem to be problematic, more so than they should be. Of course, a fair amount of people having problems with these npcs do ignore my advice, or fail to follow the FAQ, but many do have problems.
I think there is enough information, not too much. But the tutorial is a little bit long to be isolated. But it's hard, trying to balance it so that it is long enough to tell people how to play, but not so short that people can escape it and then have no idea what to do. It is a little on the long side, but ever since it was implemented, newbies have been pretty high quality. :thumbup:
It is difficult to give basic directions to major npcs. Rather, the game should tell people to ask other players for Harn and Trasok, which I think it does already.
On the subject of scaring away people looking for first impressions, I do not think it scares off that large of a percentage. My first hour was nightmarish, before the tutorial was implemented, because I didn't know how to play, or what to do. Questing was difficult without understanding interactions. I think the tutorial might make it a little bit easier once people do hit the world.
Yes, the tutorial can be pain-staking and annoying, but it has drastically improved newbies, and made it easier for people they befriend. NPC dialouge could be more streamlined, especially on the troublesome first 2, but the tutorial isn't perfect. It's pretty good, and the only thing we've got.
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I started fairly recently and found the tutorial extremely easy and very helpful in teaching me how to talk with npcs and interact with objects. If you are willing to actually read the words the npc says as well as the help boxes that appear, you can find everything you need. The only change i would suggest is to wake the default text box large enough to fit the longest npc statement in it so newbs don't have to scroll up for instructions.
The tutorial is a great way to introduce people to the world and filter out players who wont read. Not to mention it gives the player a decent amount of tria that I greatly miss when starting alts.
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I had only ever played a text-online MUD game before, so I was used to reading what appears on my screen. Is that why I found the tutorial (and most times NPC interaction) rather easy? ;-)
No, the tutorial does not hurt nor does it scare away. Not in my mind. Like I said, I was totally new to games like this and with pretty much every new game I'm glad for a tutorial to show me how things work. If I remember correctly my biggest problem was an NPC not recognizing what I said due to capitalization. I spent some minutes on that dialogue... but other than that it was just very helpful.
If you're new to a game you should be willing to pay attention I think, in this case that would be reading the informatin you get in the tutorial. And I don't see how learning should do any harm.
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I had tonns of problems figuring out the initial tutorial, but when I finally figured it out I met people who were actually playing their roles instead of comparing "EXP" and so forth. I think it's a good trick to keep out those who just want yet another game to play around with, and those who actually wants to make an efford roleplaying.
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Wow, seems there is a wave of decent new players. I wonder if the tutorial is benefiting the game.