PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Ulfer on August 01, 2008, 06:47:34 am
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I was thinking, what can be done to weapons? I've mentioned about dueling and how that can improve, in my opinion... http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=32718.0 (link dropper!) but what about crafting and repair? I briefly talked about faster quality degrading and touched upon weapon repair... which lead me to this idea.
What about if weapon repair could actually, fail? When repairing your weapon you could actually worsen the blade, and I'm not just talking about the quality, no, but worsening the weapon itself... "ruining it." Why not have a success/failure roll based on weapon repair skill? When a roll is failed the weapon is "ruined" (e.g finest ruined short sword) and it's damage type is worsened as well as any default quality depletion of the current repair process. Again, it makes the process more realistic... if you're bad or not so good at something, you're bound to mess up from time to time!
This would make weapon repair more important to train, perhaps even open up a new trade in repairs, also keeping the crafters in business and the demand for crafted weaponry that much more... it's not a 100% fix but I feel a step in the right direction in solving the issue. The issue being the lack of need in crafters due to crafted weapons taking forever to degrade.
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this sounds like a good idea make a feature request on the bug tracker and we can get the devs to take a look at it.
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You're totally right, but remember. we don't want the game to be TOO much like WoW. An idea i had for skills like this is to have it like a minigame, where you heat your sword till it's malleable and then have a timing-based little game where hammering the sword too much or too little (to prevent mastery, make it a RNG for the perfect amount) will worsen the blade, but if you're closer to the "sweet spot" it either stays the same or gains small bonuses for a period of time
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turning it into a mini game changes it from character skill lvl based to simply player skill based, the latter of the those two the devs have generally tried to avoid as much as possible.
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I have always liked the idea of more interaction with character abilities. Make it a half way thing. If a character has the ability to repair/craft/whatever something in 5-7 minutes to a quality of 85-100%, then give the player the option of giving the character a bit more 'focus' in the task by taking part directly in the process with the 'minigame'. If they suck, then it would finish closer to the 7 minutes and 85%. Doing well would bring the time down and % up, but never exceeding the 5 minute minimum. For people not good at 'minigames' put in an auto that would be no different than now. Click, wait, done with an random, average time.
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I concur with UTM. You can be both the highest skilled miner in the game and a lazy-ass, and being highly skilled isn't going to mean a whole lot. It's not like you're skilled enough that the ore is going to jump out of the hill for you while you sit back and drink beer, because no matter what you still have to put some effort into your work.
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True, there is no 'effort' or 'drive' skills yet. Those come from players.
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You're totally right, but remember. we don't want the game to be TOO much like WoW.
I have not and will not, ever, play WoW.
I don't like this 'mini-game' idea... it's a gimmick, and overcomplicates an otherwise much simpler solution... way to "arcade-like" for my liking...
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I have not and will not, ever, play WoW.
I don't like this 'mini-game' idea... it's a gimmick, and overcomplicates an otherwise much simpler solution... way to "arcade-like" for my liking...
I have to agree to everything Ulfer said here ;)
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Is this already feature-requested on the bugtracker?
[..]also keeping the crafters in business and the demand for crafted weaponry that much more[..]
I like this idea, and second it. Although I could imagine some hassle in the beginning of finding an acceptable balance between success and fail for untrained chars.
With Minigames I dont think this would have much anything in common. Just a dice rolled internally, based on your level, and System tab would show you the result.
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http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2056
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http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2056
FS#2056 - Client crashing on PPC Mac when loading OjaRoad2
Glad however to see this bug is worked on too
The correct link would be this: http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2047
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http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2056
FS#2056 - Client crashing on PPC Mac when loading OjaRoad2
Glad however to see this bug is worked on too
The correct link would be this: http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2047
opps i guess my copy paste does not work as well as expected :P try to debug it for me
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I don't like this 'mini-game' idea... it's a gimmick, and overcomplicates an otherwise much simpler solution... way to "arcade-like" for my liking...
I have to agree to everything Ulfer said here ;)
For yourself, yes, that is fine. I don't happen to like clicking on something and staring as my character does actions. That is why you make it optional. Do or do not. Manual or automatic. Not everyone likes to play the same way.
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That is why you make it optional. Do or do not. Manual or automatic. Not everyone likes to play the same way.
I surely wouldn't have a problem with optional mini games. As long as there isn't a too great disadvantage in not using them.
For yourself, yes, that is fine.
I can only speak for myself ;). I don't want to convince anyone of my opinion, just want to say it. Yes, everyone wants to play the game a bit diffrent and that's fine. And if we come up with a solution which satisfies everyone, I think the discusson was worth it.
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I'm not sure if UTM is really talking about "mini-games" like playing Tetris while you repair your weapons, but I'm thinking the skills should just be more interactive. So having an alternate to just typing repair your left hand would be actually taking the components of a repair kit and work it on the blade. You'd be able to see the areas on the blade that are damaged and maybe you can see them in better detail as your skill increases. If you miss a spot or accidentally over sharpen an area, you ruin it, or even cut yourself if you are careless. Maybe using an interface like golf games use, where timing and accuracy are used, or simply just using the mouse to move the sharpening stone over the blade. If you use the kit properly and "focus" on it better, then you'll have a better result. And it'd be great if others can see what you are doing too instead of just standing there, so they see you working on a sword or piece of armor. This could work for other skills too, like smelting, cooking and mining, but I know this is tough, takes a ton of work, time and graphics power, but I always like to try to wish high on the wish list! :)
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I like the concept of the original write-up... but the mini-game concept is lost on me. What is the real point here? I already read too many posts about characters ignoring RP while doing things... now you are going to make sure that you are distracted with clicking/typing in a "mini-game" while crafting/repairing items?
I'm not necessarily opposed to having things be a little less random, but I am not sure this will work that well for PS.
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There are a number of activities in PS that are quite boring, like mining, smelting, crafting, and repairing your weapons and armour.
So we could make it more fun by adding arcade-like mini-games? I'm with Mythryndel: don't! If I want to play tetris, I can do that anytime and anywhere I want.
I actually like these "time-outs": they give me an opportunity to devote more attention to guildchat, or to have some private converstation in tells. Or do something else entirely.
Getting back to the original post: how could we make weapon/armour repair more realistic?
I agree there should be a chance of failure or of ruining your weapon/armour. I would also like to add the idea that you ought to have special tools (outside the repair kit) to repair your equipment. With just a repair kit, you should not be able to fully repair your weapon/armour, unless you had access to an anvil. So with a repair kit in one hand, your battle axe in the other, using an anvil, you would have a chance of fully repairing that axe. Without the anvil, it would take you longer, you would repair less damage, and you'd have a bigger chance of ruining your axe.
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So... you are suggesting that the "repair kit" be more of a first aid kit, not a full-blown operating room. You can patch and mend, but not fully repair armor/weapons. I like that idea.
To take this a step further though... would it then require blacksmith/leatherworking/<item> making skills to be able to fully repair the item? I am ok with it if it does, but it does make things more complicated. However, this could add a new line of revenue for crafters and make those long hours of working a forge more useful.
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I don't think we should compicate it by combining the weapon/armour repair skills with blacksmith or leather working. Reaching a certain minimum level to be able to repair a certain type of weapon or armour would also mean you have mastered the use of the particular tools needed.
The point is, that those specialized tools are not part of a repair kit, because they are too heavy or large. In case of weapon repair, you might also be in need of a forge. But not to complicate matters too far, my suggestion is that you use the anvil, which means you actually use anyting in the smithy that you need for this particular repair work. The repair kit contains replacement parts, a small whetstone, stuff like that. Good enough for "first aid" repairs in the field, but for a good job you need the operating theatre (smithy).
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I can get behind that idea. I would see being able to gain blacksmith/leatherworking skill by doing this repair... but not required... may influence the outcome like it does for <item> making.
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So having an alternate to just typing repair your left hand would be actually taking the components of a repair kit and work it on the blade. You'd be able to see the areas on the blade that are damaged and maybe you can see them in better detail as your skill increases. If you miss a spot or accidentally over sharpen an area, you ruin it, or even cut yourself if you are careless. Maybe using an interface like golf games use, where timing and accuracy are used, or simply just using the mouse to move the sharpening stone over the blade.
That's what I meant when I talked about mini-games. Sorry if that was not clear. ;)
I really like the idea of the original poster that you can ruin a weapon. I also would make it much more likely to loose max. quality then now. And I like the idea of a weapon repair kit as a "first aid kit" too. The need of a sharpening stone and an anvil to repair weapons completely would also resolve another problem. I think at the moment it very hard (more impossible) to offer repairing services to other players. If you could wait near an anvil for customers, and then repair their weapons without a repair kit, you could charge them much less. Maybe this could make repairing weapons a real profession then.
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Ok so if you have to repair your sword in the 'field' the overall Q drops from say 50/50 to 45/45 and, you then finish off your hunting and head back to town, figure I'll head over to the Smithy and repair my sword, at the smithy you now can work out the lost Q and with enough time/knowledge in the repair craft you can actually bring the Q back up to 50/50.
The ruined weapons therefore become salvageable and the Weapon repairers can now offer something that can be needed even currently because of lost Q in Game, Could also link the ability to bring up the Q again to the Weapons Crafting therefore giving them another source of income and to lighten up the humdrum of standing over a furnace all the time.
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I actually like that suggestions... What I have read so far, i'd like to summarize...
1. Weapon repair should not be guaranteed to succeed.
2. Weapon repair if not successful should be able to damage the weapon.
3. A weapon repair kit should act more like a "first aid" kit and only be able to patch up/sharpen, but not fully repair a weapon.
4. In order to fully repair a weapon, a anvil or other appropriate stationary tool would be required.
5. Ideally, the "full repair" work would use/gain blacksmith and possibly <item> crafting as a factor, but would also be able to return a 45/45 to a 50/50 if successful.
As a side-topic, the concept of a "mini-game" was proposed. I don't personally agree with this, but it has been proposed. The overall discussion seems to agree that this should be optional, and not be "tetris" but something pertaining to the skill being worked. I personally believe this should be a separate feature request to be considered separately.
If the above points are accurately summarized, I will open a Feature Request on the bug tracker shortly with those details.
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Looks good to me. I like the idea of using a prep table or anvil to "really" fix the weapon or armor. It should speed up the process too, so instead of waiting 10 minutes to repair some high quality item in the middle of nowhere, you can do it in under 5 minutes with a full blacksmith shop at your disposal. And yep, keep it simple for this type of feature request, the graphical feature addition or mini-game is a whole different beast. I think Ulfer already added a feature request for this, I think your bullet points will do well in his post.
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Do you have a bug tracker number for that post?
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You know, since the repair skill is based on 'resale price' the only weapons that take any time to repair are the looted modifier modified weapon of modifier type. A 300 quality short sword takes no longer than a 50 quality short sword, i.e., for me, 20 seconds with my ~23 levels of weapon repair -- last time I looked anyway. If you are going to ask for a mini game or other changes perhaps it would make sense to have the duration determination changed in the process.
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Please don't even joke about making things take EVEN LONGER to complete... To my understanding a sabre is the simplest sword you can make, therefore it is the easiest to repair and thus it takes the least amount of time to repair.
Is there a rough in-game time to real time ratio?
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It is based on the NPC price, a crafted weapon of whatever quality is valued exactly the same as a weapon of the same type sold by an NPC despite the difference in quality. All base weapons at my skill level take about 20 seconds -- the minimum time for a repair. Only the weapons such as smagard encrusted reinforced long sword of defense, to coin an example take longer and that is because they can be sold to NPCs for 1000s of tria..
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Here is the link:
http://www.hydlaa.com/flyspray_upgrade/index.php?do=details&task_id=2047
Ah, that's a whole new can of worms, figuring out to make fair and reasonable repair times based on actual quality of weapons and not just NPC resale price. That is good info to know though and explains why expensive armor takes about a month to repair and a looted sword valued at 2k takes 15 minutes compared to a q300 sword.
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Thanks... Comments added.