PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Vannaka on August 30, 2008, 04:58:18 pm
-
Small insignificant complaint... but the server's down and i'm bored, so i'll post it anyway.
It makes me mad when a "bad guy" (robber, thug, mercenary...) robs and or kills a player ICly and then suddenly within minutes -often even before the victim is out of the death realm- the victim's entire guild of good guys just happens to show up frothing at the mouth ready to linch Mr. bad guy. I mean, lets get real... its no fun to just tell ur whole guild what happened through guild chat and have them show up at the scene of the crime. There's not enough bad guys in planeshift these days, probably because IC evil is always combatted with OOC good. Also... its not very heroic to show up with 10 good guys to punish 1 bad guy... what would chuck norris say?
sincerely vannaka
(now its ur turn to dice my complaint into little bitty peices and yell at me for complaining) \\o//
-
I know what It feels like to have theese problems. The gugrontid takeover was a good example, considering the economy would of crashed without godmodders.. At a road block back in February, half the people maybe were godmodding and ignoring us. Yes, in the end lots of goodies were hanging out but many other goodies did things like watching and while knowing we had a road block they ran past!
-
I think you're right for the OOCy guild chat thing... And OOC good, when these things happens, turns bad (and maybe our bad guy turns good) and ruins everything.
The very heroic thing of the 10 good vs the 1 bad is another thing. You can RP a medieval coward! And then, maybe, be RP hated...
And again, you're right: we're still out of bad people... So if you all meet some, don't cut their heads, right now they could be useful! :D (Sorry, I know, I should have came in PS a bit with my evil fenki, but, as it's been told servy's down :()
Did I diced your complaint?
Meh: \\o//
-
heh, no, no dicers yet. Its a hit or miss thing, seems like if you tell them its their turn to dice, they don't dice... probly just to make me mad. ;)
-
heh, no, no dicers yet. Its a hit or miss thing, seems like if you tell them its their turn to dice, they don't dice... probly just to make me mad. ;)
Sorry..But I knew it! I should have diced! :P
-
That is one the pitfalls of playing Evil. It is usually the ooc reaction of people that make it difficult to play. There is another side to that coin too.
There have been people who are jerks ooc and then turn it around and try to post justify that they where acting Icly. Then the Player of a "good" character is stuck with trying to rp a fake rp.
It is better just to play your character as best you can and assume all is IC. They could have sent word via Groffel. For having tiny legs they manage to get a message through quickly :)
Take heart Vannaka if there weren't Evil characters it would be pretty boring. Keep up the "Good" work" :P
-
Small insignificant complaint... but the server's down and i'm bored, so i'll post it anyway.
It makes me mad when a "bad guy" (robber, thug, mercenary...) robs and or kills a player ICly and then suddenly within minutes -often even before the victim is out of the death realm- the victim's entire guild of good guys just happens to show up frothing at the mouth ready to linch Mr. bad guy.
And IC-wise how would the entire guild know about the incident? I dont see a telepathy skill in the game anywhere so how is this information passed on? Guild chat/tell is OOC tech ;)
-
I am going to elaborate more on the Gwinn's side of the coin [though icly I wouldn't know their name] But I have been the victim of 'bad' bad guy RP; Coming across a dwarf with blades drawn in Hydlaa, I , trying to be a 'good' Good Rper, kindly asked that he abide by the rules of the city. At which I recieved no answer whatsoever and and left him be assuming he was afk, busy, or crashed, Later as I was heading through town I receive a tell from said dwarf about them feeling good in his hands, So I tried to answer this telepathic link IC'ly and proceeded to get flamed for being a jerk after I told him [you tells are not really an IC tool]. But anyways point is there are 'good' good Rpers and 'bad' bad RPers.
On another note I have used tells in a way to send a 'message' to other people. i.e./tell Vannaka /my [hrothbert's] messenger walks up to you and hands you a not that says; I would like to meet you at the gobble's teeth will you be able to be there.
Just as a way to increase the IC quality of tells.
And I have impresed upon guildmates that have been to victims of 'good' bad RP to just go along with it and not have everyone rush to the rescue from all corners of yliakum, takes time for messengers to get to their destinations. We go after the thief/murderer Later, so as to give time for the messengers to reach their destinations after the person is out of the Dr and has had time to send them.
All I am saying is at least we try.
-
(Random.) I do wonder if it would be realistic for a master of the Azure Way to send telepathic messages. Since psychic attacks and telekinetic darts and the like are possible, it does seem plausible.
-
They could have sent word via Groffel. For having tiny legs they manage to get a message through quickly :)
I find this whole Groffel thing completely unrealistic... I doubt that someone who was just killed could write a whole letter, attach it to a groffel, send it through the Death Realm to the living realm, right to his/her/kras guild mate, and said guild mate will gather up the whole friggen guild just to attack one person, and suddenly they all appear before the killer within 30 seconds after the murder... Ridiculous.
Even if someone was robbed, it's not like they're going to recognize the thief (most people like to hide their identity when doing things they shouldn't be doing). And I really doubt you can write a letter and send a groffel while you're being robbed.
GMs should be able to punish for behavior like that. It's dumb. Imagine if it were real life. It would be dumb if you were attacked in a dark, secluded alley, and suddenly the whole police force, and the army, and your family, and your relatives, and all your friends, and Chuck Norris (of course he could do this alone), and Jackie Chan, and Buddha, and kungfu!Jesus, and angry!Ghandi, and Pikachu, and Bigfoot, and Chupacabra, and Mario and Luigi, and Link and that dumb fairy, and Gandalf, and Indiana Jones, and Master Chief all came to save your insignificant, pathetic little arse. That's how ridiculous it is.
It should be obvious now that I hate people who do stuff like that.
-
vannaka applauds Raa's creative list of heroes
-
message by groffel shouldn't be instantaneous and that IS NOT what i was saying at all. . Like an above poster said after they get out of the DR. I don't see anything wrong with sending a groffel{tell] to a person. They are fast, but not that fast. RP wise gwinn sent out a groffel and it took two weeks to get to its intended target and return with a reply. In the same token once someone gets out of the DR if a guild mate is in the plaza it would not take long at all for them to get the message. If the /tells are reasonable I see nothing wrong with them and sending via Groffel makes more sense to me than talking in someones head. Key word : reasonable. If the groffel is sent to the guild hall and members of the guild where there all present would hear the message and respond. Again reasonable can't go sending the poor little groffel at warp speed through Hydlaa to everyone you know... poor little guy that would be abuse. I think that is a punishable offense... is't it???
There is good and Bad RP everywhere. RP is like Pizza. sometimes you get a bad slice that turns your stomach, but count on the fact tomorrow you will want pizza again. :) Consider it all IC, if it gets personal use the ignore function and report them and then let it go. Games are suppose to be fun.
-
Ahh yes, I poor defensless merchant sitting in a dark ally that you try to rob just so happened to be holding that V poisen, forgot the name, and that is not godding at all.
-
Ahh yes, I poor defensless merchant sitting in a dark ally that you try to rob just so happened to be holding that V poisen, forgot the name, and that is not godding at all.
Velinshi?
-
I think for the most part I'm agreeing with Gwinn on this one. Yes it sucks when a good guys suddenly has his whole guild behind him, oh well. You can always run away. If they chase you then make sure you run far. If they circle you, threaten to kill the hostage or send some fire into the crowd to make them scatter before running off ;D
What I'm trying to say is, your going to get into tough situations as a baddie all the time, sometimes situations that are even godmodish. The same happens to good guys dealing with baddies. People from both sides godmod. Instead of complaining be creative and think of a way to counter without godmodding.
-
yeah, problem is vannaka doesn't run away, he goes down fighting and takes 7 or 8 with him, and then they all get mad OOCly and spam my /tells with hate mail... ok, that's a small exaggeration... lol
-
Heh. My characters' reactions to 'evil' characters vary wildly.
I can't wait for Laraus the scaredy-fenki to run into one. :D
-
yeah, problem is vannaka doesn't run away
Well, firstly I want to say people often say this (not that its a bad thing). If your going to roleplay your character as that kind of person then you should automatically know that there will be negative consequences OOCly. In otherwords, when you die you might as well not complain but expect it as that kind of character would often die. No one but yourself to blame there.
-
If your going to roleplay your character as that kind of person then you should automatically know that there will be negative consequences OOCly. In otherwords, when you die you might as well not complain but expect it as that kind of character would often die. No one but yourself to blame there.
I completely and thoroughly agree, but the majority of people I have RP duels with ingame forget that fact. The only way an RP duel can work is if the player OOCly is okay with losing. Otherwise they unintentionally godmod.
-
One of the main reasons I don't RP fight.
As for the rest, people from both sides are guilty of the /guild runs. I have played a baddie and have found myself almost instantly surrounded by goodies of the same guild. I have been a goodie cornering a baddie, and suddenly had the entire baddie guild surrounding me.
I actually hate guild chat, and think it should be a privilege that GMs can revoke if violated in this way. /report should record guildchat as well, and I would not flinch at using it to counter such actions.
/me adds something else to his list.
-
Even if they do that to guild chat there are still tells and group chat. Personally I think they were just added to appease a vocal minority. Still even if you remove all that from the game there are always third party solutions they can use.
-
Being very new, I can understand both points having played "good" and "evil" chars other games. Also the same thing is complained about not using guild chat but msn. IMO if someone can "send a dove or bird or post" before dying, fine, but not after. I would assume one or two may get that message. (I also think on the whole bad guys don't win and need to be prepared for that with their ic char), yet at the same time it makes the game more exciting with the "bad" chars and I wouldn't want to see a game not allow them.
-
I personally love the 'bad' roles and style of RP. I cant get enough of it whether I am on the receiving end or spreading the evil word myself. While reading the rules of this game, it almost gave off the impression that 'bad' roles were only allowed if it did not become incovienent to the RPer on the receiving end. Yet, I hear talks of murderers, thieves, and the general roguie-ish type players existing and doing service to their self-appointed roles. I have a hard time defining OOC harassment and IC 'harassment' since, in my opinion, anything said to me in game will be taken as IC really. I am completely fine with any form of IC 'harassment' since I consider it a roleplaying experience and will need to act accordingly. However, as far as OOC harassment would go, I really do not know how one could do it beyond spamming my with tells of how I can [blank] my [blank] with their [blank]. I really do not see a need to punish anyone for anything done ICly even if it were me being killed again and again or robbed from for the sole purpose of being there. It's really up to the roleplayers themselves to take the reigns on that one. Perhaps I am just reading too much into those rules, or perhaps I have just RPed for far too long.
On the note of there actually being tells and a guild chat, I can see the point of them being an irritation in these circumstances; especially when you are shooting for realism. I would think that a delayed messaging service of some kind (I would like to say dependent on the destination, but just being delayed is fine in my mind) or some kind of messaging post for guilds inside their buildings (I think I have seen a few guild buildings, at least that is what I assume they are please correct me if I am in the wrong) so you have to travel there to post or read any news or announcements would do better. Of course, as Hrothbert pointed out if you can do it correctly, then the chat system works just fine. Everything else too kinda boils down to that point. The 'bad' RPers count on the 'good' RPers to do their work with passion and vice versa. If one side does not exist properly, then the other side (or even the gray area where quite a lot of people reside for that matter) cannot function properly.
As for the ganging up on others, I am not a huge fan of it. However, in other games I have had an almost equal share in both parts of that frustrating equation. I still cannot bring myself to be against a hunting party of any sort, but I can understand the intense frustration it can cause for the party to be formed almost instantly as well. Right now, it seems that it is just up to the player who died whether it happens like that or not and I have no clue if that is or is not going to change in the future. The best I can say is that if we, the person behind that screen, get ticked off enough at an RP to take it personal, then it might be time to mellow out a little bit.
By the way, I have no clue whatsoever what the term "godmodding" refers to. I have never heard of it before, but it sounds as though it could walk the line with cheating. Is this so?
P.S.
I have quite a problem with ranting and getting off on tangents while doing so, I just love to talk a little too much. Feel free to call me on it if that be the case.
-
I think discussing how or if some sort of message is sent to guild member is needless. This is a roleplay game. So roleplay your death, escape from death realm, report of the crime, call for backup etc. If you do so, it will be fun for yourself, your guild, the perpetrator and everyone else involved. Using guildchat to get support for bullying a player OOCly is not gameplay.
Indeed, many players take this game too serious (oxymoron ::)), and get upset/angry/annoyed OOCly. You can only try to teach them or exclude them from your roleplay universe.
-
hmm, it would appear that most points have been expressed already, so I can only agree with the issue - people [as a general rule of thumb] like to be centre of attention, want their character to be 'the hero' or 'ultimate villian' [sometimes this is not true...] - so, yes it is very hard to RP 'conflict' without someone disliking it.
As to the whole get all your guild there during a RP of an attack... it only serves to ruin what could end up being a great RP that lasts some time - the problem lies in that there is 'no cost' to death!!! in my oppinion.
-
... what would chuck norris say?
Stand up so i can kick your face again, loosers
I'm sorry about not complaining there :]
-
What would you prefer -
1. A player who stumbles across an event & calls his guildmembers in to join in the event, or
2. The player doesn't call in his buddies because he's afraid he'll be accused of not plaing fair, only to read in the forums about how role-playing is dead & no one comes to join events any more??
Yes I agree that players should read other's descriptions & act accordingly (the player doesn't know the hooded figure's name, etc). However, if you want people to join in and role-play with you, you will have to anticipate someone calling in his cavalry!
Keep in mind that there are baddies out there who do their fair (or should I say unfair? ;) ) share of ooc. The problem comes from all directions.
If you want a lot of players involved in your rp, don't complain about the use of chats to bring others in!! Instead, focus your energies on finding a way to educate players about the more basic rules of roleplaying - in my opinion, that would make your naughty adventures more enjoyable for yourself. :)
-
What would you prefer -
If you want a lot of players involved in your rp, don't complain about the use of chats to bring others in!!
Why would a thief want lots of heroes involved?
-
Happybluelizard, I disagree with everything you just said. Quality over quantity, and no one ever said players of "good" characters were the only ones at fault.
beetidubelyoo, did you even read this thread?
beetidubelyooagin, it's not a good idea to fight fire with fire in this case. Just because someone else cheats doesn't mean you should (I tend to do that a lot, though, lol). That makes it even worse.
-
Oh jeez, you guys have this problem? *whimper* The first RP server Berior and I played at had it too. Hint: it pretty much killed the server. There really needs to be a rule against at least that kind of metagaming. At the server I played at, no one bothered being evil anymore because the "good guys" just metagamed them out of existence. Eventually the evil players left and the admins had to pander to the good guys via NPCs, which killed the experience. If there's no IC reason they'd all know up knowing, it's BAD ROLEPLAY and should be considered griefing or something. I'm not saying the "bad guys" don't do this but generally it's the "good" guys that do it way worse. Don't you want your struggle to be hard? That will only make the victory better--because unfortunately "good" always wins in the end in these sorts of games, and you've got the entire server on your side...so stop the silliness and give the "bad guys" a break, be a good roleplayer, and take one for the team so the server doesn't lose it's baddies.
-
The main problem is, that the "bad" always want to win with their crimes, and also the "good" want to be the winning hero. Good RP should allow both sides to win, without the looser get so angry, that he changes his reactions to OOC.
How this can be possible?
1. Communicate with your RP enemy, how far you can go. (if he would fight or not; or if he want to play at moment)
2. Why always killing? (With the new duel sytem you can defeat an enemy, so that he falls down by his critical injuries; On this Way, he hasn't to go the annoying Way through DR, Dakkru Curse and Way back, looses with bad wounds but not became angry oocly. This would be some kind of friendly "Bad RP")
3. Ignore "good guys", who ignores barrikades etc. Keep on mind, that unlikely not every PSler running through the world for RPing, so play with these, who are as enthusiastic as you in RP. RPing with respect and keep ICly without annoyin OOCly
Personnaly, I think, that involving of friends, who aren't in area, isn't belong to the origin RP and should not used. In my point of view, i think there are more baddies than goodies dealing with RP. Better, most "Bad guilds" are real RP guilds, real "Good guilds" are rare because most guilds are just chatgroups, but thats only my experience. Nethertheless, i had some good "bad RPs" yet, without big disadvantages for th "looser", so these are able without OOCly angrys and fair. And the last wisdom of the day: "Don't think about, what the others do wrong, think about, what you can do better" For the good and bad guys.
-
Happybluelizard, I disagree with everything you just said. Quality over quantity, and no one ever said players of "good" characters were the only ones at fault.
Raa, I re-read Happybluelizard again... and while I usually agree with a lot you say.. I am confused. Maybe I am missing something?
(besides the name... I will refer to them as HBL for clarity and brevity)
HBL starts with a question, which do you prefer, option A or option B.
HBL then says they agree that you should read one's description and act accordingly. (see sidebar below)
HBL then points out that some baddies do it too, (do you disagree with that too, since you "disagree with everything you just said"?)
HBL then points out that we should educate people about RPing, rather than getting upset. and then closes with a "in my opinion" conclusion.
I do not see what exactly is the "everything" you disagree with, though HBL does seem to be talking more about events, (group, guild and gm?) while you might be talking about individual interaction? But again, as HBL states:If you want a lot of players involved in your rp, don't complain about the use of chats to bring others in!! Instead, focus your energies on finding a way to educate players about the more basic rules of roleplaying - in my opinion, that would make your naughty adventures more enjoyable for yourself. :)
(meaning, logically speaking, If you do not want a lot of players involved in your RP. then the rest of the statement is not applicable.
If you are thirsty, you should get something to drink. so if you are not thirsty does not lead to any conclusion. it does not mean you should nor does it mean you should not get something to drink.
Now for sidebar, see above)
(sidebar, I disagree on being required to read everyone description. If you approach me from behind, I will not have had a good look at you, and besides, most descriptions are really life stories and more OOC than the labels. If one was in a guild, they might wear something (ring, badge, gang colors) that would identify their guild, and may even have other means of identification, but I have yet to see someone IRL who had 4000 words tattooed on their forehead about everything about themselves. Want to get to know one of my characters, sorry, you will have to interact with them. Of course I have no problem with actually descriptions, but if the first paragraph is about your childhood, I do not bother with the rest. I am not here to read your fan fiction, post it in the forum or on your own website if you wish. also, please try to have the things that should be obvious first, so the longer I look you over, the more details I might see. Or not. If you want to RP some long detailed event with me, you might find that, as in many cases in real life, my character may just blow you off. Make it entertaining for me (us? ???) and we might play. )
-
I think that we are all missing a larger issue here. Given that the game takes place in a medieval setting and given that literacy rates in that time were often below 10% , the fact that we are using text as a mode of communication at all is completely OOC.
The proper solution to this problem is to develop an in-game implementation of voice chat that dynamically assigns you to a channel based on your proximity to other characters. That way when you are standing still at Kada-El you can take part in the voice chat happening there, but as you run through Hydlaa you will migrate through many channels picking up bits and pieces of various conversations. This will also help out with the extremely OOC fact that thanks to logging, all our characters have photographic memories. Naturally, once logging is removed there will have to be some method for recording events, transactions and literature. I propose that this could be accomplished by implementing reading as a trainable skill. This skill would give the possessor the ability to log with varying duration and accuracy based on his/her skill level and over time learn to read the books in the various collections around the game. Perhaps such people could even be useful in settling disputes between illiterate characters. Or they could even represent illiterate characters in disputes with lettered citizens. In short .... Planeshift needs lawyers.
Or we could try to do the best that we can with the combination of tools and imagination that we have at our disposal and hope that as few people as possible attempt to make themselves superheroes (either by PL, RP, glitching or any other method to make themselves look strong and others look weak)
-------------
DISCLAIMER:
Some of my best friends are lawyers ;) I did not intend that stream of consciousness to wind up there, but it did and it made me smile. I hope it has that effect for more viewers than it offends.
-
The proper solution to this problem is to develop an in-game implementation of voice chat that dynamically assigns you to a channel based on your proximity to other characters. That way when you are standing still at Kada-El you can take part in the voice chat happening there, but as you run through Hydlaa you will migrate through many channels picking up bits and pieces of various conversations. This will also help out with the extremely OOC fact that thanks to logging, all our characters have photographic memories. Naturally, once logging is removed there will have to be some method for recording events, transactions and literature. I propose that this could be accomplished by implementing reading as a trainable skill. This skill would give the possessor the ability to log with varying duration and accuracy based on his/her skill level and over time learn to read the books in the various collections around the game. Perhaps such people could even be useful in settling disputes between illiterate characters. Or they could even represent illiterate characters in disputes with lettered citizens. In short .... Planeshift needs lawyers.
Good gods, man. For a moment I thought you were serious, and I was preparing to heave a brick at you. ::| I have to say, though, upon realizing your point... well said! ;D
-
Happybluelizard, I disagree with everything you just said. Quality over quantity, and no one ever said players of "good" characters were the only ones at fault.
Raa, I re-read Happybluelizard again... and while I usually agree with a lot you say.. I am confused. Maybe I am missing something?
(besides the name... I will refer to them as HBL for clarity and brevity)
HBL starts with a question, which do you prefer, option A or option B.
HBL then says they agree that you should read one's description and act accordingly. (see sidebar below)
HBL then points out that some baddies do it too, (do you disagree with that too, since you "disagree with everything you just said"?)
HBL then points out that we should educate people about RPing, rather than getting upset. and then closes with a "in my opinion" conclusion.
I do not see what exactly is the "everything" you disagree with, though HBL does seem to be talking more about events, (group, guild and gm?) while you might be talking about individual interaction? But again, as HBL states:
Well... Hm, too lazy to respond now... Uh, HBL didn't really get the point of the thread, I don't think, and thought it meant including more people in RP (by means of cheating)... As Vannaka said, if you're a baddie, you don't want more people involved. Yeah...
I don't know why this is all in a quote. ::|
-
Hmm.. dunno, but reading this topic gave me this idea where one would not be able to write the name of his murderer in a guild chat or tells for certain amount of time... but then you could bypass it by typing "ZkkkkkkkOkkkkkMkkkkkkGkkkkZkkkHkkkkkkkAkkkkkkkN TkkkkkkEkkkkkRkkkkkkkTkkkkkkkkE killed me!". So I guess it would require some coding.
-
Why not have a system that prevents pvp more than once in 20 minutes? (Forgive me if anyone's suggested this yet). That way the murderer has time to escape, at the very least. Though, perhaps there can be an RP-rule that once you enter the death realm, you forget the last 10 minutes before you entered?
-
Well this is also a lot of the fault of the person who died anyway. I mean, settingswise, the Death Realm is huge and IMO it's bad RP to just dash through in 3 minutes then pop back into Yliakum. I always spend an absolute minimum of 4 IRL hours in the Death Realm, but usually it's 1-2 IRL days. It drives me mad to do so, and that's why I try not to die. I flee. I use the guards to my advantage. That sort of thing.
-
It is bad RP Timmothy...is there anything that rewards good roleplay or punishes bad roleplay? A lot of NWN2 servers have RP rewards that give good RPers some extra experience, especially since they tend to keep away from abusing the system to level up :(
-
No, there's not really anything to reward you, other than the RP itself, which IMO is enough reward for me.
-
True, but if it encourages RP among those who would otherwise not care... :)
-
To RP or not to RP that is the question - this has been debated and debated, I have yet to see a solution that fits all. I do however, have issues with people who oocly call all to a small RP part in a bigger plot where someone is dragged off to a corner to be mugged etc - it is soo unproductive to the bigger RP picture.
And as to the Death Realm - well, I have to admit - I hate the fact that some players don't take it seriously and pop in an out of it as if going to another town! Death should have more of a price than just half stats for a short while... in my oppinion.
But back to the point of this thread - mini plots in big plots where the so called good are battling the so called evil - There are sooo many elements that should be taken into consideration, such as who is watching, would your character risk being seen so near guards? [npc's], and should you really RP outside your actual character's game mechanics abilities? The game has progressed so much with its mechanics, we should really no longer have to RP outside them. I know this is hard for those who like me prefer to RP than to Level - as we will never be as levelled as the power levellers... but amongst RPers we probably are well balanced [or not depends how long you get to level v RP I guess]. But until one gains level/skill from just doing things in proportion to what your skill is - as it does seem rather out of kilter towards the fighting rather than the doing... well, one has to go with it I guess? [oh gosh I am waffling.]
-
The victim was robbed and killed. end of I say. The fallout is the guild hunting down vannaka. A symptom of thieving. One cannot rob with impunity. He/she expect to be targeted by the victims friends. This is normal.
The problem is IC or OOC. I suspect like myself vannaka dont give a hoot about it. If they victim accepted the challenge then the incident ends right there. Only it dont does it? Vannaka will no doubt be punished for his actions.
The games mechanics are at fault. I suggest that out of towns the challenge isnt required. That way IC or OOC has no relevance. One would think long and hard about running to oja for a quest item or purchasing 300 pots from an NPC. Yet again this isnt ok either as you'd have gangs of bad guys/gals waiting at entrances/exits of maps to "spin", victims. There isnt an answer to this problem. ...Yet.
OK yes IC vannaka could plot up and "Ask" a character on the road to oja lets say, to hand over his goods or trias? And IC the victim would either comply or decline. IC it would end there on the basis of the victims answer.
I agree totally with vannaka.
-
The victim was robbed and killed. end of I say. The fallout is the guild hunting down vannaka. A symptom of thieving. One cannot rob with impunity. He/she expect to be targeted by the victims friends. This is normal.
It's not normal when it's taken to OOC and all of the victim's friends attack the killer/robber with no prior IC knowledge of what happened.
-
I don't think we need to go as far as having the whole road made into a challenge-free PvP zone. It's really more that the players need to use a little more common sense in these cases. It's absolutely ridiculous to get your whole guild after one small-time crook, yes, but some characters would react in more extreme ways than others (for example, if Monala were robbed by someone she knew she couldn't defeat, she'd brush the robbery off and go do some errands to fill her pockets again, but my alt, Laraus, would cower, fork over her things, and beg for mercy. If they were robbed and killed, they'd probably both tell the guards, though Laraus would be quite traumatized by the death realm and probably stick around the entrance until she gathers her courage, while Monala tends to poke around the DR Library and/or vent her frustration at dying on the critters for a bit before returning to the land of the living).
Not to mention, what if the guards overheard that your character was taking the law into their own hands and getting citizens to kill the robber? You'd probably all end up in jail.
-
I have a problem with the DR as people keep describing it. I see all over the place both on the forums and in-game where you are SUPPOSED to go to the DR. I've had to go there for quests, you have to go there to continue learning the Dark Way, you are even TOLD to go there and read books. Why is it that going to the DR is supposed to practically cripple you for weeks and weeks and whatever? Why is everyone sooooooo opposed to going through the DR and coming back with the curse for 30 minutes...
Shortcut... who cares? It is a means to an end, and when it comes to running from BD to Akkaio... even with the curse it is quicker to /die and be done with it. I get VERY tired of endlessly traveling back and forth and back and forth for these UNGRATEFUL NPCs!!! Anyone want to help me push Lorytia Starhammer over that cliff? but I digress...
In this game, why is going to the DR any different than visiting BD or Akkaio or any other place in Y'liakum?
-
Well, killing yourself is kind of a big deal, Mythryndel... And the quests that lead you there are probably going to change in the future. And you probably won't have to go there to train DW. Going to the DR will probably be much worse later on. Dying isn't supposed to be a joy ride.
-
Been discussed before, so please do not give me credit for idea.. but...
What if you spawn on the same map you died from, like where you drop if see out of bounds.... when you die.
so in BDF, type /die. go through DR and boom... you are now at half stats.. and not far from where you died.
Still can be used to get terminally unstuck (not same exact location) and to do DR quests.. but no longer a shortcut.
Another idea I heard, have it take a random level in something, permanently. So every trip requires you to see which one you lost and go retrain. makes you really hurt if it is a crafting level....stat level not so bad.. but still enough to prevent using it as a shortcut. nothing not recoverable.. but hey, when you are level 100 on something, and now you are level 99.... ugh. of course newer people being at lower levels, it would not affect them as much. (also would encourage people to have a lot of things they dont use much be low levels, to increase chance that it wont affect their few "important" skills.
Re: guilds chasing down a criminal, reminds me of http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7 (http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7)
Doesn't the "murderer" realize their victim will come back soon, and tell their friends? Now I understand they would not be around you in 3 minutes... but they would hunt you down... and may keep doing it. The cost of doing the business of crime in a realm where permadeath is kind of rare. You can not kill a witness to silence them. that is the nature of yliakum. So lets get creative. How would you compensate for this? Maybe something like honor among theives and a thieves guild? (by the way, what is up with so many identical guilds? wouldn't one thief guild prevent all other theiving, and require others to pay protection money to be protected. and anyone who violated that would be in trouble. Still waiting to see that Ingame.
-
The idea of a thieves guild and such... the problem there... is that you can't force ANYTHING on another player. Just ask those that have tried to play a bad/evil character or tried to set up a blockade... People would likely be much less rude if they could be put in their place without having to "accept" the consequences first.
Also... DR... I still don't get the big deal RIGHT NOW... you are encouraged to go there for many reasons, but everyone gripes about it constantly. How it is being abused, how you shouldn't ever go there, how it should permanently change/scar you... If perma-death is so rare, then it is not that big a deal to /die every now and then. Explain it how ever you want in your RP, but to quote many a hollywood movie... "Death is but the next great adventure"... and in Y'liakum, it is a literal place that is inhabited by critters and people... and a library for some strange reason...
-
yeah umm... i'm not going to agree or disagree with you Mythryndel about that, but its a bit off topic...
Re: guilds chasing down a criminal, reminds me of http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7 (http://tshcomic.googlepages.com/episode7)
Doesn't the "murderer" realize their victim will come back soon, and tell their friends? Now I understand they would not be around you in 3 minutes... but they would hunt you down... and may keep doing it. The cost of doing the business of crime in a realm where permadeath is kind of rare. You can not kill a witness to silence them. that is the nature of yliakum.
The issue isn't that they would come back and tell their friends, that's understandable, the issue is when a man they have never met and who is wearing a helm over his face attacks the person, and then somehow their whole guild knows who the person is, where the person was, and shows up before the person even has a chance to leave the scene of the crime or to count his loot from the ill fated traveller
-
The issue isn't that they would come back and tell their friends, that's understandable, the issue is when a man they have never met and who is wearing a helm over his face attacks the person, and then somehow their whole guild knows who the person is, where the person was, and shows up before the person even has a chance to leave the scene of the crime or to count his loot from the ill fated traveller
Such is the nature of crime in a land where the inhabitants are "tell-epathic." ;)
-
Har har harr.
-
Maybe characters do communicate using magic?..
Let me see if I understand. Someone DID what to who?.. As far as I know,
The idea of a thieves guild and such... the problem there... is that you can't force ANYTHING on another player. Just ask those that have tried to play a bad/evil character or tried to set up a blockade... People would likely be much less rude if they could be put in their place without having to "accept" the consequences first.
So, if no one can really steal, kill, push or do any, then why bother playing a baddie? The only way is via RP, right?.. well, this is a RP game, so RP your goodies and baddies. It's the only thing you can really do. And if for some reason, you end up in DR, it's your fault for accepting a challenge, having auto accept on or being at the wrong place. That's the way we all want it, right?.
I used to be part of a guild like the one described. It's the only guild I've been in and since then, I have found no reason to get into another one (or the same). Why?.. Well, some bad connection in my brain states that if there is no chance of doing it, then why bother?.. therefore, being in a baddie guild and RP does not compute very well in my brain.
Social behavior is no crap. Communication between social entities is inverse in complexity to the size of the parties. For example, two individuals can talk very deeply about any topic for a long period of time. Add some couples and you end up with two groups who don't really add much depth to the topic. Add some dozens and they just understand yes, no, demo, repu, black, white, kill, die and so on. The larger the group, the simpler the concepts.
Guess why is it that RPing a blockade is so easy when it starts and so tangled when it's ruined? Careful! the only way for a single individual to deal with large groups is in a conference, speech or alike. It can not be a conversation. and this is why GM's have greater chances of success when doing an event. They can impose the conditions of the communication and impart discipline on the monkeys.
The characters in the game recognized that guild as a baddie for it's reputation. And it still goes pretty much the same way. Ask yourselves, what kind of identity this and other guilds had today if it wasn't for their glorious past? I mean, some recent player could very well oversee the character of a guild and some could say to him "Be careful, those are from ------- guild, they're badaches!" maybe he'd say: "lolz wha?.. they can't do s*** to me. I'm the omnivoroplus...ultra...mega..." and blah, blah, blah.
And you could reply now in this thread: "..but my guild is still the ---- blah, blah blah" NO! it's the bandit who gives the cop it's shoulder stripes. It's the rule.
What if I asked you to prove your skills accordingly to your RP? (specially when playing the omnicapable)... well, I could ask the same to a guild. And?
There is currently one single way. RP.
-
You can't force anyone to do anything and everyone has their own preferences. What is it about? RPing and fun for everyone, of course. Lets see.. 40% baddies, 40% heroes, 20% others and everyone does make mistakes. Some ignore that there are actually guards, some try to rob yet another person in front of the city, having their barricade there, althought several others already were robbed and went to Hydlaa. Some apparently just don't hear anything, ignoring their surroundings completely, some hear too much, some hear "voiced in their head", some "talk inside others heads"... and there are many more variations out there which make the one or the other person feeling offended/angry/whatever OOCly.
Firstly we have too many "baddies" and "heros" (leaving out those who shut their eyes and ears from any kind of interaction). Where are all the common citizen? ..anyway, that's beside the point.
The solution is simple: Think out your plot/ideas and keep in mind that it should be fun for every participant. It doesn't need to be some huge event or such but you should have some few rules at least (at least those which should be obvious, like "no OOC calling of help"). Find your victim and make them your OOC offer about "that incident" and be sure to make it clear that it's meant to be fun (some, sadly, just can't distinguish/understand OOC - IC that well and may take things personally otherwise). If they agree, fine, lets have fun! If they don't, don't do it.
I am certain that you'll (sooner or later) know who is likely to join such "incidents" (both goodies and baddies) but keep in mind that "the same person likely doesn't want to get robbed each day".
If that all doesn't help, rethink about your "OOC offer", maybe it's just not good enought (or those you asked want "more than nice RP" if they're going to lose - some just can't appreciate nice RP - or some RP just isn't worth it.) Also consider that RPers don't necessarily PAY for RP. (In case you're trying to earn trias that way.)
If all fails: Let your "baddie" friends summon their own "goodie" to be robbed. Each day another of your fellows. ..but that should be the last thing to do.
It wasn't that easy for me to find a fitting (well-RPing) "bad person" when I needed one.
(much more than I planned to write.. ..actually pondered if I should even bother adding my thoughts)
-
I've found that it isn't a good idea to play a character that is an outright theif, murderer, trouble maker, etc, unless you're extremely sly about it and only act where you cannot be seen. If you do anything that is very public, then the character is over, or else you violate reaslism and the character is ruined.
It's very possible to roleplay "dark" characters and many people have done that with great success. Truly evil characters and criminals however, I very rarely ever saw done well. I would say that if you want to roleplay a criminal, do your best to behave realistically. If the character is killed, let the character die. If the character is caught, let the character get caught.
And whatever you do, don't take things personally. The goal is to be in character.
-
Re Zanzibar's Post :
Bang on the button.
The problem is that the game lacks the mechanics for such a role. Permadeath is one answer. Or at least an effectual ban for a set period. Dark chars would think twice about their mark then.
-
its no fun to just tell ur whole guild what happened through guild chat and have them show up at the scene of the crime.
Indeed it's not fun.
What would be fun would be to chase the criminal in a proper act, either an investigation through witnesses or a manhunt in the wilds. All in agreement with the bad guy.
its not very heroic to show up with 10 good guys to punish 1 bad guy...
Indeed it's not heroic.
In folklore, 1 good guy will come and punish 10 bad guys.
Now, what puzzles me: what happens if, say, Vannaka takes out a few of the good guys before he is slain? All meet in the DR starting room, and then what? Fight again? Ignore each other? Call for more guild members (it's so quick to reach this place)? Have a celebration party?
-
Now, what puzzles me: what happens if, say, Vannaka takes out a few of the good guys before he is slain? All meet in the DR starting room, and then what? Fight again? Ignore each other? Call for more guild members (it's so quick to reach this place)? Have a celebration party?
If Vannaka was slain, i think i would have to ignore the good guys he brought down when i meet them in the DR, because i don't think you're really all supposed to appear in the same spot in the death realm. I think you're really supposed to be spawned at some random place inside the huge maze and then have to find your way out from a different spot each time, but mechanics just doesn't support it yet.
-
If Vannaka was slain, i think i would have to ignore the good guys he brought down when i meet them in the DR, because i don't think you're really all supposed to appear in the same spot in the death realm. I think you're really supposed to be spawned at some random place inside the huge maze and then have to find your way out from a different spot each time, but mechanics just doesn't support it yet.
I believe your right. If I remember correctly the spawn points ideally are 'random'. the Citadel is just one place in DR but there are many others you could appear in.
-
If I didn't weigh in before, let me say: I find it LAME that people would use tells to summon all of their buddies to go for revenge against a baddy on baddy turf on an RP server.
That said it is pretty unavoidable because good guys always win, because "good guys" always cheat. . .
-
If I didn't weigh in before, let me say: I find it LAME that people would use tells to summon all of their buddies to go for revenge against a baddy on baddy turf on an RP server.
Yeah, there are a lot of very common bad habits.
-
Am I the only one that finds the labeling of characters as goodies and baddies to be juvenile and silly?
-
Am I the only one that finds the labeling of characters as goodies and baddies to be juvenile and silly?
it's just a simplification of the type of characters i'm talking about. yes, i realize very few characters are really 100% good or evil, but i used the terms as a way of discussing it without explicitly listing names, and if i did just list names i'm sure this thread would've been locked immediately (and rightly so). if you have some better terms to describe the situation that would be most welcome...
-
I don't know, its just that it seems to cheapen the game. As far as I can tell the devs are aiming for high fantasy and not lowest-common-denomenator fantasy. No character should be good or bad but should simply react differently to different situations. Any less and it seems like either poor understanding of what morals are or poor character creating ability. You could call each side any number of things from A & B, Allies & Axis to Nicks & Yankees and it should tell you just as much about their character as saying goodies or badies provided they aren't two-dimensional.
I think I may be being pedantic but its something thats bothered me since long before this thread started and now I'm seeing people I would have expected better of using the same terms. I also understand I'm not contributing much to the topic of sending tells but as far as I'm concerned its a dead issue. We know exactly which side is right and which is wrong and all that remains to be done about it is to police it rather than talk about it.
-
It's hard to avoid. There are people who are competitive. Some are more competitive than others. Some of those people will compete over being good. An effective way of making yourself appear good is to turn other people into villains. There's a similar argument to be made over status in the community. Some people try to make themselves high by making others low.
It's just one of those things. The best answer is to shine light on the problem so people are informed.
-
The gugrontid takeover was a good example,
what takeover?
-
No character should be good or bad but should simply react differently to different situations. Any less and it seems like either poor understanding of what morals are or poor character creating ability.
Agreed, but unfortunately some people try to play characters who are either always "good" or always "bad"
I think I may be being pedantic
Quite possibly. You wouldn't be Parallo if you weren't though. :thumbup:
-
Agreed, but unfortunately some people try to play characters who are always
juvenile and silly
-
*disclaimer I've not had time to read ALL of these posts :P*
Its just something you kinda learn to deal with, it will always happen no matter what you do or say you just have to learn to not let it effect _your_ RP and roll with the punches, one thing you learn quickly when RPing a bad person or and evil char or whatever you wish to label them as, is that we usually end up RPing twice as hard as the guy your trying to harm or rob, for many reasons as you will find in my older posts about this topic really. Just go with the flow, and if all else fails [explain to them that they are being OOC and you don't wish to continue this RP with them] just be nice and be fair as well, don't just use that cause you picked on someone weak and now someone strong showed up to save them ;)
oh and on a side note, I'm really impressed someone remembered the takeover :D *coughs* err I mean..take over? what take over? I dunno even know where that stone city is!
-
Its no fun when people think evil will never prevail, and they are stuck in a comic book world of "Good guys always win, some way, some how."