PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xanthan on September 02, 2008, 08:34:40 pm
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I've been thinking about where planeshift is going. I've seen the great progress of development since I joined the game two or three years ago. Now that there's some downtime, I've been reflecting on what it might look like when 1.0 is eventually released. I've searched around the forums and website trying to find a roadmap or other design goals that define this, but I haven't found it. Does anyone know where it is, if it's public? Not that I need to know, but I'm curious.
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that, i believe, is a well kept secret that not even the GMs or Mods know about..
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I think it's so secret that not even Talad knows about it :P
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I think it's so secret that not even Talad knows about it :P
maybe its so secret even the devs have no idea...
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It is a well known fact that the roadmap is only viewable to Larry, the voice within Talad's head who tells him what to do. :P
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It is a well known fact that the roadmap is only viewable to Larry, the voice within Talad's head who tells him what to do. :P
well that Larry has no idea either xD
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maybe its so secret even the devs have no idea...
Erm... Talad is the head of development >.> Sort of a redundant reply >.>
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They have an idea, they just don't know if they're up for it. Hence why they don't admit to having actual objectives.
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what it might look like when 1.0 is eventually released
An asymptote? :P
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From what I understand, they have a list of requirements that PlaneShift should meet before it reaches 0.5 and from then on they don't know.
That was very arrogant, Sangwa.
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Actually its surprising just how much info is around wrt where the game is going. A certain npc ingame will tell you about all the cities on the dome level including those not yet even being worked on plus their names so settings has already covered all this. We know the names of all the eight levels planned plus much of the nature of the stone labyrinth. Many of the books ingame give valuable info on the geography of the world too.
Here are good descriptions of three cities on the dome level that dont yet exist.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31385.0 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31385.0)
Settings i believe have been far from idle and i dont doubt when the next phase of city designing and building comes about more details will be revealed ;)
hint:
When your next in the death realm try being nosey instead of such a hurry to get out then you will maybe learn many more fascinating things too.
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I don't think we will have an answer to that but we could ask for it.
Maybe it's a good idea to have some hints about the future instead of biased speculation.
If we had some storylines perhaps the forums would be more constructive and maybe a good percentage of the posts could be dismissed.
Sometimes we feel like Sangwa expressed, which I don't think is arrogant, but it's a question of lack of information about where the compass points.
Let's face it, we want to get the gold bucket at the end of the rainbow.. I'd say, let's ride the rainbow. Just remove some twists and turns. It's a bumpy ride already.
What would it look like?.. I dunno! but I could tell how I wish it to look like (or better, perform like) but we don't want to get through it all again, do we?..
Enjoy your vacation away from the crystal
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I think that we will need all 8 levels, perfect AI for NPCs, among other things. this will happen sooner than you think because once talad hacks runescape to remove competition, He'll get the strongest whip in runescape and every time a dev dose bad or dosn't work 8 hours a day want to know what will happen... oh wait, you can guess what will happen! :devil:
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May your soul rot in hell nedoko, NEVER EVER COMPARE PS AND R*. 1.0 will hopefully be a roleplay only game without noobs.
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Oh yeah. Noobs who don't RP also get whiped!
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Will 1.0 trim the ego off a bunch of RP elitists? If so... where can I sign up to help get it here sooner?
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It will.
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I'm kind of sorry I asked now, but thanks to Floras for the interesting response. I've been meaning to see if there's any readable books in the Death Realm yet. Don't know if that is what you mean, but I will explore. The settings team has indeed been visibly busy, and hats off to them for it. Not to say others haven't been-- obviously they have. Possibly settings, and graphics to support it, have the most daunting remaining tasks if the entire stalactite is to be portrayed.
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Right-click on every bookshelf you see. You may find a new book where you least expect it.
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Here is a list of things that have been told publicly over the years I have been here.
Code: near bugless features.
Performance: Smooth and optimized. Support for 1000 players.
Interface: Completely intuitive.
Art: All races finished. New cities and possible completion of the entire Dome and some of the surrounding Stone Labyrinths. New art styles. New graphics features utilizing the latest technology available to PS Devs. AKA, the cool stuff you see.
Characters: Vastly expanded options for looks and play styles.
Houses: Fully functional interior design.
Lore: Fully integrated story and history.
Quests: Improved AI and expanded versatility (means we can do more with them than just talk to NPCs). More quests than you can shake a stick at. A really big stick.
Story: Moving forward.
Economy: Balanced once all crafts and ways of gaining money are set. There is no point in doing it sooner.
Complete wipe of the database, including all characters.
Other things I can not recall now.
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Xanthan, I hope you didn't take anyone's response too hard...
There really is alot of info out there for where the game is headed... Talk to the npc's rather than ask for quests... if you ask the right things many npc's have lose tongues, many do not. Part of the fun is figuring which do and which don't. Some people want all the answers up front, but I must admit that if I find a "spoiler" and use it, I don't feel the same about the accomplishment. I feel robbed and let down.
Many of us are willing to help out or point in the right directions, but try to rp it so it's not so obvious.
And to be honest, I don't know that I'd like to be a part of a game that doesn't invite "new people". (I really dislike the word noob)
While it may be difficult to begin for some people we have all been "new people" at one time or another and I think some people forget that.
It's not really about the drama or the anger some feel, or the woe is me that others put out, but it is about some of those things in moderation (hopefully not all the time though, but if that's your character, then so be it, but you may not find people who want to rp with you).
A bad day is a bad day. It happens. A poor person can be happy and a rich person can be miserable (but seldom ever all the time).
Be patient. There is a rainbow and it is a bumpy ride, but boy is it a fun ride.
Most of all, enjoy what's already there. I find new things every time I'm in the game. I found a cave the other day... I explored rather than ran around aimlessly.
Take a walk from Oja to Hydlaa. Take the long way rather than the short way. Write a book on the arena or study the weather patterns or come up with a new theory and pass it by the Devs...
Play a game of Clacker Tag: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33529.0 (http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33529.0)...
And best of all... Role play. That's what's best about the game; it's limitless because of the imagination. If you find so-called RP Elites, well... join them in their rp. I have found that they are always willing to teach and very patient with "new people" willing to learn. I've screwed up a few times and they've been very kind and patient with me and even gave me helpful hints for future reference.
Version 1.0 is a long, long way off. Version .4.02 is ready for fun...
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I sometimes think that people who talk about RP elistists/nazis all the time wish they were as good ;). 1.0 will never make RP elitists loose their attitude, because without them, PS would go down the drain.
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Wishing for version 1.0 means a total wipe of all characters. Maybe it is good that is far away. Though I like the idea of a wipe now that I think about it. A fresh start would be nice.
/me thinks of a new character name and a whole new role play idea.
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Here is a list of things that have been told publicly over the years I have been here.
Code: near bugless features.
Performance: Smooth and optimized. Support for 1000 players.
Interface: Completely intuitive.
Art: All races finished. New cities and possible completion of the entire Dome and some of the surrounding Stone Labyrinths. New art styles. New graphics features utilizing the latest technology available to PS Devs. AKA, the cool stuff you see.
Characters: Vastly expanded options for looks and play styles.
Houses: Fully functional interior design.
Lore: Fully integrated story and history.
Quests: Improved AI and expanded versatility (means we can do more with them than just talk to NPCs). More quests than you can shake a stick at. A really big stick.
Story: Moving forward.
Economy: Balanced once all crafts and ways of gaining money are set. There is no point in doing it sooner.
Complete wipe of the database, including all characters.
Other things I can not recall now.
Exactly what I meant.
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I sometimes think that people who talk about RP elistists/nazis all the time wish they were as good ;). 1.0 will never make RP elitists loose their attitude, because without them, PS would go down the drain.
Or not. It's worth the try anyways. Say, let's have them elitists loosen up from 0.5-0.7 and see what happens...
/unloose elitist on
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google google
http://www.crystalspace3d.org/downloads/conference_2006/planeshift_conf.pdf (http://www.crystalspace3d.org/downloads/conference_2006/planeshift_conf.pdf)
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This question comes up from time to time and usually there is no direct answer.
A few years ago someone(vengeance?) posted a long list of things thats they planned to implant and what direction PS would take. Sadly i couldn't find that post.
Some of the things mentioned there are completely opposite to what we have now.
One thing is remember was narrow street structure for the sake of performance. Hydlaa changed from MB to CB in exactly the opposite direction, giving wider views(and messing up proportion).
It seems to me that the goals change from year to year, so even if the developers gave you a list of what they want to achieve, the end result would be something different.
As for game levels, i don't think the world will ever be complete. The settings team is far ahead of the 3d department. Take Ojaveda for example. Akkaio is only a small part of it. At the rate its going now it would take years to complete even that(unless they focus just on Oja). Unless something has changed in the settings, now we can access only a small part of the first level.
Then there is always the obvious - improvement to all existing game mechanics, implantation of all skills e.t.c.
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Blackjack and hookers. That's the End Goal.
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/me laughs Xordan.
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Blackjack and hookers. That's the End Goal.
Hehe your not looking - ive already played in a blackjack game (well with dice as theres no cards) and ive seen at least one of the ladies you mention :)
hint: get into the habit of reading characters descriptions as its informative and can save much embarassment i.e like when i was talking to a 3 y/o fenki thinking they were an adult :-[ :D
On some of the points about RP mentioned yes i see what i think of as RP zealots who act just like their counterparts in any other human activity ;) Mature RP'ers need to be sought out and ive rarely seen them in the obvious places.
It is the RP and settings that i find make PS so different to the 'run of the mill' mmo type games ive played before that are just levelling pipelines running from newbie town to boredomville. I suppose in PS that could be platinum<->arena->leave ;)
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This question comes up from time to time and usually there is no direct answer.
A few years ago someone(vengeance?) posted a long list of things thats they planned to implant and what direction PS would take. Sadly i couldn't find that post.
Some of the things mentioned there are completely opposite to what we have now.
One thing is remember was narrow street structure for the sake of performance. Hydlaa changed from MB to CB in exactly the opposite direction, giving wider views(and messing up proportion).
It seems to me that the goals change from year to year, so even if the developers gave you a list of what they want to achieve, the end result would be something different.
Some changes are most probably due to technology evolution, designers realize that they can do now what seemed impossible to achieve before... and sometimes they realize they just can't meet such or such requirement. It's funny what you say about the street structure and maybe it illustrates that perfectly, when Boonet saw the new Hydlaa layout at the beginning of CB, he said that it was how it was originally meant to be. Perhaps it was too difficult to achieve, although I think that at the beginning of MB the mesh occlusion was not already part of the Crystal Space engine, yet the client performances were quite good on a reasonably good computer (unless someone was messing with the collision system - I won't give names ;)). The city was meant to be bigger anyway so it must have been a good decision to flatten it somewhat at the time, knowing they could finally count on occlusion culling to reduce the processing. I'm sure that people who were present at the time of AB could comment further on that.
We have to admit that, even if there have been some turns in the implementation, the setting as it was originally decided (or what we know of it at least) has been pretty much respected by Talad and his team. It's sad the old Planeshift archive site is not available anymore (maybe with the Way Back engine (http://www.archive.org/web/web.php)?), because you could see that the setting was already there at the time of the 2D version. That's anecdotal, but you could also do a web-based quest on this site! :)
In a 2001 document (Luca Pancallo, Jan Willy Sandbraaten, Wouter Wijngaards; Requirements of the Persistent Multiplayer World; June 20, 2001), the Planeshift required features were described quite precisely and the evolution of the game seems to follow those lines. For example you could read (this part was also divulged in the news little before CB was made public, 3 years and a half later):
"When a character dies, his body lays on the ground, lifeless. No one can touch the body since it’s surrounded by a magic death aura.
The spirit separates from the body and asks to the gods to be resurrected. The gods normally take all non-magical items and money as a fee, leaving to the character all magical items and only a small amount of gold. Then the gods transfer the spirit of the character to the Realm of Death where he must accomplish a quest to come back to life. The difficulty of the quest can be related to the level and alignment of the character. In the Death Realm the player gets no experience points.
In the realm of death everything is dim and shadow and the spirits of the dead cannot die again, they may be knocked out but never die no matter how badly they are wounded.
After solving the quest he can ask the gods to be teleported back in the place where he dies or to the nearest temple."
Most of the famous buildings and characters in Hydlaa were already described in another document in December 2000 (Luca Pancallo, Martin Allander; Yliakum, First Level; December 27, 2000), in which Jayose was already using falka lamps, unaware of the trouble it would cause him, and in which Harnquist was already sharpening weapons (hum, and it was a Kran...).
But Kada's tavern was not mentioned, it must have taken that much to bend Talad's original plans ;)
The same goes for the magic system, which was already in the works in 1997 apparently. The six ways, glyphs and spells were already specified in minute details in 2001 (and probably much earlier) as we know them now - the implemented part anyway.
And Ojaveda too, in an old but undated document (probably 2000-2001) the dsars were already described (the "Tavern of Trouble" changed its name although the new one depicts the same idea):
Dsar Akkaio: this small dsar is located on the main road that lead to the temple of Laanx and to the city. Due to the privileged position, the shops and taverns in this dsar are very popular.
The “Tavern of Trouble” is a popular meeting point of travelers and a place where the two ylian merchants, Arrehnius e Rotrari Mendoki, sell their goods. This tavern can accommodate more than 100 people at the same time and is famous for the enkidukai beer, produced in the fields near the village and brewed in a traditional way. This drink is exported in all other levels in limited quantities and due to this is quite expensive and rare. The owner of the tavern is the huge Brado (at least compared to enkidukai sizes), famous for his skill to stop any brawl by himself and for his loud and deep voice. In the back of the tavern, there are some rooms for gambling, prohibited by the laws but tolerated by the leader of the village.
Located in the west side of the main road there’s the Trasòk Weapon Shop, the most respected weapon smith in Ojaveda. Twenty-two people work in the shop and ten of them are dwarf of the hammerwielder clan. Here you can find the best weapons of Ojaveda, particularly axes, very handly and well balanced.
Another interesting shop is the one of Vladovic. Vladovic is an old Xacha, considered one of the wisest person in the village. His profession, in addition to the one of giving good advice, is the herbalist. This lively old man has a great knowledge of plants and he’s able to prepare healing potions and ointments to remove wounds and diseases. He provides also powerful poisons to the guards used to keep at bay the monsters of the Stone Labyrinths.
Compared to what is public now, there is still plenty of material for the magic rules, Ojaveda, some quests, plus everything that must have been added since then. That probably doesn't answer the original question since there is no reason to believe everything should be implemented in order to declare version 1.0 err, gold, but it tells that there has been a road for quite a while and that the development team is still on it.
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.. And where feasible and appropriate we take into account the wishlist, as well as new technical and social possibilities.
We have long-time goals that were mentioned in several documents like autonomous tribes, housebuilding, advanced AI, the points UtM mentioned (but I have to correct him - PS engine is supposed to handle much more than 1000 players) - these things guide our efforts.
However, with people always coming and going it is sensible to only make fixed internal shortterm roadmaps that are adapted as resources are available.
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I didn't read the last 2 pages - sorry for that.
But I hope the question stays valid why those shortterm roadmaps should be internal.
Sen
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Because 1. PS has a tradition of (good and bad) surprises and 2.shortterm roadmaps wouldn't disclose the
longterm midterm plans, thus would only promote the constant whining about whatever, which frankly gets on all our nerves.
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Just one small little thing I've been meaning to say for a while
When it comes time to release 1.0, rather then just deciding "We're going to wipe all characters", wouldn't be a better idea to ASK the playerbase at the time if they would like this to happen and decide there?
I know the point is to make a level playing field, but it would cool to be rewarded for hanging around in the PS early days by getting to keep your powerful character
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I am NOT in ANY way associated with PS officially...
However, with that out of the way, I think that the player wipe is inevitable for 1.0. Yeah, that kinda sucks for us players... but it is entirely possible that the features included in 1.0 will not be compatible with the characters the way they are. I would hope that at the very least, we get the option of keeping our characters names after the wipe.
What would be nice, however, is if the PS officials offered some kind of perk to those that have been around for a while. Maybe a special item or a little bump in initial character creation stats. Only time (and the release of 1.0) will tell.
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What would be nice, however, is if the PS officials offered some kind of perk to those that have been around for a while. Maybe a special item or a little bump in initial character creation stats. Only time (and the release of 1.0) will tell.
I agree--oh wait a minute, it's called the Ring of the Past.
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I am NOT in ANY way associated with PS officially...
However, with that out of the way, I think that the player wipe is inevitable for 1.0. Yeah, that kinda sucks for us players... but it is entirely possible that the features included in 1.0 will not be compatible with the characters the way they are. I would hope that at the very least, we get the option of keeping our characters names after the wipe.
What would be nice, however, is if the PS officials offered some kind of perk to those that have been around for a while. Maybe a special item or a little bump in initial character creation stats. Only time (and the release of 1.0) will tell.
Or a tshirt for those that stay on after the wipe saying, "I survived a character-wipe"...completely nerdish and ps-exclusive but hey, i would stick around for one of those. It's like going to a wedding for those little watchamacallits on the table that says, hey i went to their wedding, i forget who they are, but these things are totally cool!
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Re: wipe
yeah, because nothing says realism like going into a new town and having everyone be at the same level of skills and abilities. Seems to me having the more expereinced players around as stronger "residents" would be a feature to promote, not a liability. Maybe make an option... Wipe or nerf? So your swordfighting goes from 100 to 40... but still respectable... otherwise; the non RP community floods the realm, making it unenjoyable for us, and the RPers leave... for the next beta game...
But not my decision, in any event. Whether I start over or not will be. I will decide then if Bamko is ready to explore new realms. Since he would have to start over in any event, might be as well to do it in a new place...
I dont know.. but something I will consider. Now, if say they change the system... so total "points can not be over say... 1000 (stats and skills... so take the maxed maxed theoretical charater.. and say.. they can keep only 10% of points... then each character would be able to keep 10% of theirs... so go to stats.. and "train" using up points... um.. I dont need the Will ... as much as... crud.. the...strength?) You can nerf it fairly without killing us all off, I think.
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drop the wipe talk.
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=14529.0
http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=27428.0