PlaneShift
Gameplay => In-Game Roleplay Events => Topic started by: Elvors on October 04, 2008, 02:31:44 pm
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The Prophets of Chaos have started to claim the lives of innocents.
Magic was used to slay bystanders and people who just happened to be at the wrong place.
Most didn't even get a warning, nor an explanation.
We have realized that, if this is left unchecked, the Prophets of Chaos might establish a reign of terror, in those areas where the gods avert
their eyes. [I.e. the PvP areas where you can get challenged against your will: Dlayo Pit, and Camp Banished.]
This is inacceptable.
We have sworn to protect the innocent.
Honoring this oath, we say this to the Prophets of Chaos:
"You have been told again and again to stop this.
You have ignored all warnings - now face the consequences. There will be war within the month."
To those guilds and individuals who have already joined this cause:
If you have any questions, talk to Guardian Grizzlyus or Lady Sanxx, of The Warriors, or any other Warrior.
If you have expressed your interest to join: Now is the time to commit yourself!
If you hadn't heard about the conflict yet: you're welcome to stand up for the rights of the many!
Again, talk to Grizzlyus or Sanxx, tell them how you would like to help. You could participate with magic or steel, or donate or lend equipment or money.
And don't forget: what's in your heart is more important than what's in your hand!
We'd like to thank Perlan for starting this initiative. We're just picking up where you couldn't continue.
We're thanking the guilds and individual who already offered their help. You're the best of Yliakum, folks!
Writing on the behalf of The Warriors
Elvors Amenoras
Mystic Warrior in the guild of The Warriors
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[while i'm not opposed to a war (and was a major component in starting one) i would like to point out that you can't seriously take this war IC, because the prophets of chaos was made a secret guild, and all members killing in camp banished masked themselves. Claiming that you know it was the prophets is just bad roleplay. Also most killed in camp banish were warned, and only those that appeared aggressive were not. Just make sure everyone remembers it's a game, and don't be mad OOCly about the war, that makes me sad.[
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[Excuse me? Claiming that the Prophets even exist is bad roleplay. It's a guild full of powerlevelers.]
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[Well, how do you roleplay being masked? How do you roleplay unmasking? How to you resolve the outcome when somebody tries to unmask another? Besides, when I was as Camp Banished, that masking wasn't mentioned, and I can't re-read the descriptions every time.
Claiming you're masked is ok, but claiming it after the fact is just godmodding.]
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[we've all stuck to a policy of writing the mast or cloak into our description since this RP started, most people who stopped and talked had time to read it, or if they roleplayed as if they knew we were a prophet or knew our character we simply told them in brackets that we're masked. I don't know if many warriors had this opportunity though since they didn't last all that long in the camp. probably didn't have time. ;D ]
[Excuse me? Claiming that the Prophets even exist is bad roleplay. It's a guild full of powerlevelers.]
[well that's just steriotyping, we have all types in the prophets, from Asonoh who has never roleplayed in his life, to me who roleplays and levels, and even a few who spend a few hours every day in that tavern yapping away.]
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[That's just it though. I take it that Asonoh was there when this happened? If he doesn't roleplay, what's his significance in the story of the Prophets?]
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[we've all stuck to a policy of writing the mast or cloak into our description since this RP started, most people who stopped and talked had time to read it, or if they roleplayed as if they knew we were a prophet or knew our character we simply told them in brackets that we're masked.
Well, I have talked to several PoC members at or near the camp, and they usually didn't make it clear - though it's quite possible I didn't mention their names.
Still, that doesn't resolve the question how to roleplay unmasking. There's no good way to determine the outcome, it would be either a die roll (but how to assign probabilities?) or godmodding of one of the other kind ("I see you through!" - "no you don't!"), or too lengthy to be practical (you don't do this kind of negotiation if flying stones might come at any moment).
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For me this is a simple issue
members of the Prophets of chaos have been slaughtering innocent citizens
those doing it have not been expelled from guild so i take it that the guild agrees with their actions
therefore the guild as a whole is held acountable
simple . . . . dont 'muddy the waters' with talk of OOC and 'masking'
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[
Hello
I hesitate a bit to see it as a roleplay event. This war looks more like some players having problems with another and the war would mean a mix of ic and ooc (sorry for mentioning ic/ooc again). What is the goal of either side; do both sides agree to it as it should be imho in a good rp?
For me it would look better if you could agree on rules and make them public for those who want to take part in the roleplay - right now it seems like this war will p*** some players off...
Sen
]
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[Well, let's put it this way.
If you all are worried about any roleplay events, etc....Garris Shrike has all of the answers.
Due to a confrontation with the leaders of the "nonexistent" guilds, he now has the information needed to make this totally IC. Not saying I'm doing this to be a jerk, but it's true. The roleplay with both sides has been totally awesome]
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[Ahh a war, I would like to take this time to THANK the warriors and the prophets of chaos... This will be very good for planeshift, a war gives drama to rp. And Im no PoC fan, but Shaman do you honestly have room to talk when it comes to ooc vs ic?]
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[While OOCly I would fully support this, I don't think anyone in this forum has actually received any clear answer as to what PoC actualloy is... which would make fighting them on any terms somewhat difficult :-\]
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[Sen is right - this war has a large OOC motivation. There's also an IC motivation; just pick what suits you best :-)
Regarding OOC:
Vannaka talks a lot about roleplay. In fact most PoC members get the IC/OOC separation right; however, they neglected that roleplay is about having fun together, even if you're on opposite sides. I wouldn't mind making Elvors unhappy, provided a great story unfolds from that. And "great" means I can tell it to friend and they want to hear the end. Don't think roleplay as a football match, think of it as a theatre play, where the actors and the audience are one and the same.
So, if you need to kill a weak character for IC reason, talk to him OOC and ask him for his or her consent. If that's impossible due to lack of time, at least send an apology afterwards - and get their consent for the next time.
If you just kill, you're not generating great stories, you're generating unhappy players.
Remember: PlaneShift is intended to be fun to play. Yes, that includes other players, and yes, this even includes clueless players.
Well, these are the OOC reasons for the war.
For the OOC aspects, I think number of players on each side is more important than which side guild-yields.
Now for the IC aspects:
We're similar to many crusader orders. We try to help people, but lacking an effective investigative police force and methods, we're forced to work on hearsay and thin evidence. Somebody drew a line between PoC and Camp Banished, there was nothing that contradicted that line, so we simply assume the line is real and act on that assumption.
So don't insist on watertight evidence. It is not necessary to have such a thing to start a war.
Maybe the next war will be based on assumptions that all players know are wrong, but the characters don't. This could become part of a great story.]
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Remember: PlaneShift is intended to be fun to play. Yes, that includes other players, and yes, this even includes clueless players.
Well how refreashing! Perhaps the newer players can learn some RP and how it works from watching the more experienced players.
I also like the fact that you have pick which reasons (either IC or OOC) and just play or don't join at all attitude. Your including everyone and that is an important thing to do with events.
Really people do you have to pick it apart? Just make something of the roleplay and use the event to have fun. Don't flood the forums with mindless nitpicking about this being too OOC and not enough IC or the other way around. Just enjoy that someone has went out of their way to make an event that's NOT a GM event and roll with it. Isn't that what players want? More events? My worry is if we keep picking apart every little thing with these events then your most likely going to scare away people who want to throw events. (Most of the time half the people who comment have never thrown a Event and don't understand how much hard work it can really be. Though I don't know if that is the case with the posters in this thread. :) ) After the event things should be suggested and discussed so that any future events might run a little more smoothly. Trial and error is what will make the RP community grow. Good luck and I hope this event works out regardless of who joins in.
:sorcerer: Me personally, I kind of like the idea that a guild is not putting up with other citizens harming others with magic whether it be on purpose or by accident. That is generally what the war is about correct?
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Me personally, I kind of like the idea that a guild is not putting up with other citizens harming others with magic whether it be on purpose or by accident. That is generally what the war is about correct?
You hit the nail on the head.
Not by the letter, but very much in spirit.
Thanks for your post. You reminded me who I'm doing this all for: people with an eye for the essential, like you.
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[although it's basically been said that you don't want to hear about what is IC and OOC, i would like to tell a story, of what just happened 10 minutes ago in yliakum...
12 members of the guilds who guard the camp got together to have a small meeting. Hanace and Dalot stumbled upon our meeting, and seeing who we were and that we were in a pvp area, it was only natural for them to stand just outside the border and decline challenges repeatedly while calling for help in /tells and guild chat. 10 minutes later, as expected, 10 do-gooders showed up all at the same time, and stormed the camp killing us. apparently with 10 others called OOCly /challenges were no longer quite as scary.....
not only is it completely ridiculous to stand just outside the pvp and decline challenges while listening in on our guild event, but calling in 10 others in /tells to come kill us immediately after declining challenges.... sheesh there's so much wrong here. On top of that, and i'm not going to mention a name here, a character who was reprimanded by a GM for abusing a glitch that can be used to gain extra health about an hour before, used the same glitch in the fight.
the saddest part is that none of the players involved who called or were called in /tells and guild chat see anything wrong with bringing in another 10 players OOCly to help fight. one of the reasons planeshift is a good game is because of the high quality RP, or so i thought, but what this war has developed into shows quite well that the roleplay can be severely lacking at times, and the people involved don't even understand what's wrong with the way they're playing]
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not only is it completely ridiculous to stand just outside the pvp and decline challenges while listening in on our guild event, but calling in 10 others in /tells to come kill us immediately after declining challenges.... sheesh there's so much wrong here.
Indeed.
So they should have retreated, gathered a force, then stormed the camp. I'm not sure whether that would have changed much.
Or maybe one should have sneaked up and listened, knowing that all gathered in the camp will ignore the floating name tags that OOCly betray their position... would you claim that with a straight face?
And PoC never called in support via /tell - no? I remember talking to Asonoh, when suddenly two other PoC members dropped in - purely by accident, of course. (Yes, that was that battle between PoC and Warriors shortly ago. I tried to send my guildmates away, but when they heard additional PoC members were showing up, they had no reason not to come themselves. Pot. Kettle. Black.
Sheesh.
one of the reasons planeshift is a good game is because of the high quality RP, or so i thought, but what this war has developed into shows quite well that the roleplay can be severely lacking at times, and the people involved don't even understand what's wrong with the way they're playing]
Yes, it's certainly true that there's a lack of good roleplay at work here.
Though I think your view of things is massively skewed.
E.g. I'm still waiting for an answer why killing weak players with level-150 Flying Stones is good roleplay. "Good" in both sense of the word: "Good" as in "creates a great story", and "good" as in "is fun for everyone". Currently, I think you're ignoring that question because any answer to it would make PoC look bad.
Until you either find a convincing answer to that question (or simply stop doing it), you'll be perceived as schoolyard bullies. I have spent the majority of my life participating in different forms of roleplay, and I can say you one thing: nobody wants to play with schoolyard bullies, even if they have the most brilliant roleplay ideas.
There's a better strategy: study types such as Goldfinger, Lex Luthor, or Senator Palpatine. For these figures, evil was a means, not an end, and that's why we remember their names.
Also, don't forget to be friendly and cooperative at the player level. You'll be gaining friends at the player level and still can do all kinds of evil plots at the character level. You'll even find that those "do-gooders" are quite decent people, and more than willing to let their character look bad occasionally. The best stories are those where victory and defeat alternate, anyway...
... and, whatever you do, always consider this question: will it help create a great story worth telling?
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Indeed.
maybe one should have sneaked up and listened, knowing that all gathered in the camp will ignore the floating name tags that OOCly betray their position... would you claim that with a straight face?
yes, i would claim that with a straight face, since i have my options set so that the nametags only appear when i hover my mouse over a character. also we had lookouts posted on each tent in the camp, and saw them coming from a long way off.
And PoC never called in support via /tell - no? I remember talking to Asonoh, when suddenly two other PoC members dropped in - purely by accident, of course. (Yes, that was that battle between PoC and Warriors shortly ago. I tried to send my guildmates away, but when they heard additional PoC members were showing up, they had no reason not to come themselves. Pot. Kettle. Black.
When at the camp PoC members are going to show up 'by accident' because whenever we feel like going there we almost always go in groups, and the others who show up were almost certainly already on their way. I was one who 'dropped in purely by accident' at the time you're referring too, and i actually had logged of there, and just happened to log on right before the fight started.
E.g. I'm still waiting for an answer why killing weak players with level-150 Flying Stones is good roleplay. "Good" in both sense of the word: "Good" as in "creates a great story", and "good" as in "is fun for everyone". Currently, I think you're ignoring that question because any answer to it would make PoC look bad.
most often the weaker players that were killed were NOT killed with flying stones, and they were also warned to leave the camp. there is nothing wrong with the roguish players occupying the rogue camp and making their word law there, right? as for creating a good story, it was intended to create a good story - the prophets of chaos wanted to start a guild war to add some more fun to the game. The problem is everyone sees that we're trying to start a war, and that we're killing people, and become angry OOCly about it. their OOC anger naturally leads to using OOC means to fight what was intended to be a roleplay.
Also, don't forget to be friendly and cooperative at the player level. You'll be gaining friends at the player level and still can do all kinds of evil plots at the character level. You'll even find that those "do-gooders" are quite decent people, and more than willing to let their character look bad occasionally. The best stories are those where victory and defeat alternate, anyway...
I am generally friendly to the opposing players in /tells and other OOC chat. I think i can also safely say that i'm friends with about half of them already. Some of them aren't angry about what PoC has been doing, and are generally nice to me as well in /tells (jenica, scisel, sanxx, grizzlyus... so on...). but other ones, when i try to be nice to them as a 'player' rather than a 'character' get angry that i'm even talking to them after what vannaka has done, as if my guild's actions in a role playing GAME make me some kinda bad person... others don't even deny that they're in the war because they're angry OOCly at the players in PoC and readily admit that they don't really care what roleplay lead up to the war or how in involves them.
Could have have been a good roleplay, resulting in a good story. I say it's already been ruined due to preconceived notions about the prophets of chaos, confusing IC and OOC situations, and admittedly the unbalanced magic system.
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[This is why I refresh my statement, saying that neither of these guilds should be brought into the RP environment for poor quality and nerd rage reasons.
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I personally think it is the players who are ruining the roleplay from what I am reading. I mean both sides. Come on guys, work something out and don't make this a "your doing this, so I am doing that", or "he said she said" crap. Work together or don't RP together. It really is as simple as that. We are all in control of ourselves and our decisions but NOT other people.
As for OOC, we as a community have to start being a little less agressive about RP or we are going to come accross as huge RP snobs. I mean some of these people are new to this. You can't expect them to know how to RP their first couple of months in PlaneShift. Even if they have been long standing players, can you not still suck at RPing? I am all for and always have been for RP but there has to be room for those who just don't like it or can't RP if their life depended on in. I saw posts a couple of times from Dev's who have tried to point out to the RPer's of the community that both can enjoy the game and the game was made to accommodate both. So lets keep that in mind before we freak out on those who don't RP. Besides it sounds like one of the sides has invited all to play. Meaning Rp and none RP. If your a hard core RPer, what are you doing playing in the mix then?
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[Word of caution: players are not to "teach" other players "a lesson". Enjoy the game and let others do the same. If you feel someone needs to learn a lesson, talk to the GMs and we'll handle it. Starting a war for OOC reasons is a recipe for disaster. Do it IC or don't do it at all. And do it with those you enjoy RPing with, not those you want to "annoy back". There are jerks everywhere and there's no law or rule against being one. It's important to learn how to deal with them with maturity and not let them waste our time.]
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Vannaka reminds me of a seedy sound bytes politician. Full of it. 1st off weve planned this "Ambush", for ages. Then we heard your PoC guild had been instructed not to camp at Banished anymore. Once however we were informed you had congregated we rushed and over- ran the camp. I tried to relay the intent of RP with miltiades some days earlier(about forming a militia), but he seemed somewhat "Difficult" in understanding our intent to form a militia and remove A Noob murdering Bullying bunch of powerlevellers from aformentioined camp. Your spouting smacks of hippocracy Vannaka. Your guild is equally guilty of it. You accuse us of all this crap.. Because you all died so well. And you didnt like that did you?
Its not fair that:
1) Your guild has exclusive access to Camp Banished for whatever reason when clearly there are quests and loot to be had from it.
2) explain the "Guild entrance" chest ? Enabled or not its not fair.. If it is an entrance to BD for those exiled and who cannot enter Hydlaa then why is it not called "Entrance to Bronze Doors"?
*edit*
And as for GM's We dont trust you anymore. Period.
I'll elaborate.
No I wont...Everyone knows exactly what I mean.
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there should be a rule against posting when intoxicated. enough said.
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Ok for one thing dragnoor.. how could you call us a bunch of powerlevers.. when you and your wife both mined 3.7mill in 1 week.. and you got Caught twice today for cheating with the sed glitch.. And we were doing a quiet alliance meeting. when you stormed in, ruining a good rp. And then you guys randomly challenge ppl. ((OH AND BTW: healing pots should not be aloud, they are abused)) You have maxed brown way maxed crystal way maxed HA maxed sword.. and youve only played this game for 4 months, thats rediculouse.
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[Word of caution: players are not to "teach" other players "a lesson". Enjoy the game and let others do the same. If you feel someone needs to learn a lesson, talk to the GMs and we'll handle it. Starting a war for OOC reasons is a recipe for disaster. Do it IC or don't do it at all. And do it with those you enjoy RPing with, not those you want to "annoy back". There are jerks everywhere and there's no law or rule against being one. It's important to learn how to deal with them with maturity and not let them waste our time.]
I tend to keep my mouth shut and enjoy the game. But, when I talk to GM, my answer is always, "IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO GET KILLED, DO NOT GO TO PVP ZONE".
LOL, killing without reason and get OOC offensive is annoying.
And while character might be IC, the people behind the screen sitting there with the curse can do nothing for half a hour, how can that be IC?
This is annoyance.
Asonoh himself said when in PvP zone, you do not need to rp in a bad way, like "stupid lady ask GM yourself."
I reported him and got no attention so far.
So what wrong we annoy them back?
Tell me, what else can we do?
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The rogue camp was a roleplay.. the pvp pit in the arena is just meant for fresh meat.. and you seem to always come back ,either your not getting the point of this, or you like to die
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The rogue camp was a roleplay.. the pvp pit in the arena is just meant for fresh meat.. and you seem to always come back ,either your not getting the point of this, or you like to die
Dear, you always come back too, so we want you also to get the point.
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E.g. I'm still waiting for an answer why killing weak players with level-150 Flying Stones is good roleplay. "Good" in both sense of the word: "Good" as in "creates a great story", and "good" as in "is fun for everyone". Currently, I think you're ignoring that question because any answer to it would make PoC look bad.
most often the weaker players that were killed were NOT killed with flying stones, and they were also warned to leave the camp. there is nothing wrong with the roguish players occupying the rogue camp and making their word law there, right? as for creating a good story, it was intended to create a good story - the prophets of chaos wanted to start a guild war to add some more fun to the game. The problem is everyone sees that we're trying to start a war, and that we're killing people, and become angry OOCly about it. their OOC anger naturally leads to using OOC means to fight what was intended to be a roleplay.
Uh, they were supposed to be IC happy with it? Bad guild reputation for attacking innocent is SO OOC! Consolidation against common threat cannot be IC, can it?
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Good morning
All sides should think of stopping this rp or not-rp and look for someone assisting in working this matter out. My first idea would be gms but Im not sure if it is their work and of course not in a position to suggest this, nevertheless I think if all want to stay in the game and enjoy playing it the involved parties should look for a moderator.
Sen
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Good morning
All sides should think of stopping this rp or not-rp and look for someone assisting in working this matter out. My first idea would be gms but Im not sure if it is their work and of course not in a position to suggest this, nevertheless I think if all want to stay in the game and enjoy playing it the involved parties should look for a moderator.
Sen
Agree with Sen. This is not going to bring anything good, better stop it now.
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Sorry Morla and Sen, this war does have a large real-life motivation, that's just fact.
And this aspect is in response to PoC killing people just for fun. If that's roleplay, it is far too non-fun for those who aren't in PoC, and even violates game policy ("PlaneShift is fun to play").
I'm not happy with that myself. I justify it on the grounds that there's a good chance that something good can come of it, and hope it will work out that way.
Also, even the real-life reasons are "protecting the defenseless", which is what we Warriors live by. We may be acting out-of-character, but at least we keep our in-character traits...
I do agree all spin and bickering in this thread is annoying and should stop.
I beg forgiveness for my part in it - I can only say I had to learn what my issue with PoC actually is, and boil it down to what's in italics above.
Of course, there is also ample in-character motivation.
Hey, the Warriors, who're supposed to protect the innocent, are declaring war on Prophets of Chaos!
That alone should raise a few eyebrows. Why are they attacking? Are they scheming and the PoC are an innocent victim... or are the PoC such a large threat that a war is necessary? What is your character's position in it - side with the Warriors, side with PoC, go into hiding, plunder the spoils of battle? Why does your character choose a side - just to test his/her/kras skills, a personal axe to grind, because of friendship, or because you uphold the principles or one or the other side?
Just ignore the real-life implications, and you can still have loads of fun 8)
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Vannaka reminds me of a seedy sound bytes politician. Full of it. 1st off weve planned this "Ambush", for ages. Then we heard your PoC guild had been instructed not to camp at Banished anymore. Once however we were informed you had congregated we rushed and over- ran the camp. I tried to relay the intent of RP with miltiades some days earlier(about forming a militia), but he seemed somewhat "Difficult" in understanding our intent to form a militia and remove A Noob murdering Bullying bunch of powerlevellers from aformentioined camp. Your spouting smacks of hippocracy Vannaka. Your guild is equally guilty of it. You accuse us of all this crap.. Because you all died so well. And you didnt like that did you?
Its not fair that:
1) Your guild has exclusive access to Camp Banished for whatever reason when clearly there are quests and loot to be had from it.
2) explain the "Guild entrance" chest ? Enabled or not its not fair.. If it is an entrance to BD for those exiled and who cannot enter Hydlaa then why is it not called "Entrance to Bronze Doors"?
ok first off: we have never been instructed not to "camp" at banished, get you facts straight!
second: we do not have exclusive access, again your facts are wrong!
and third: what the hell are you talking about when you mention that chest?? maybe you shld try to talk to a dev abt that and again GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!
and you talk about Vannaka as the politician? when you yourself ain't the slightest better.
ohh well what do i care, i just wan't to know how the events got along last night and where it stands right now.
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Too many negative emotions around. Too few a priori agreements about this war. A huge scale event like this should be discussed in advance and not just be declared by one side. What concerns the IC reasons for the killing, watch this: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=33626.msg387111#msg387111
Camp banished is a spot for the evil guys to hang around, the others are warned. Why does any 'good citizen' want to visit that spot at all? I have seen many players incorporate the camp into their roleplay nicely. So why just try to 'destroy' Yliakum's ugly place for the sake of it? I think this place should be used to propose ideas about why all the 'goodies' actually care about a deserted place with shady guys hanging around.
I'd also like to hear a GM's opinon about the cloaking. I put it into my desc and also remind people sometimes by /telling them about the fact. Is it godmoding? Is recognising a cloaked person godmoding?
]
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While initial intentions were on the up and up, this thread fails.
Neither side will accomplish anything going back and forth on the forums like this. Either agree to disagree and stay away from each other, or accept that if you continue on disrupting the game for OOC reasons, the GM staff will have to take corrective actions against you.
If you still wish to have your RP war, then you must do it right. I suggest you take another gander at Sen's post:
Good morning
All sides should think of stopping this rp or not-rp and look for someone assisting in working this matter out. My first idea would be gms but Im not sure if it is their work and of course not in a position to suggest this, nevertheless I think if all want to stay in the game and enjoy playing it the involved parties should look for a moderator.
Sen
Find a third party and have a nice sit down with them and the two opposing sides and lay down the boundaries. The current way you have gone about this only and always leads to trouble.