PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: playbetter on October 13, 2008, 04:46:24 pm
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Before I start a new character, can someone point me to a list of etiquette for Enki?
I intend to start an insane Menki and would like to know what "rules" he should be breaking, eg. no grooming in public, no tail chasing, no sitting on the fence singing.
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Well the first thing is to forget catlike behaviour insanity in humans doesnt mean to act like an ape as for enki etiquette it varies immensely fro the very formal victorian style of RHoP to the clannish Felines Lair
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Umm Thank you.
I guess I didn't explain far enough.
Of course he will be talking to himself and seeing things not there, but Enki are cat people and do have cat traits. I have heard them in game meowing on several occasions. Crazy people may not act like monkeys but may act like cave men with violent tempers and actions. They also may thing they are someone like Lincoln or Napoleon from the past. If you have ever met a crazy person you know their grooming habits, dress and manner are usually not conventional. I can figure out the mental part of the insanity but need suggestions for the "cat" side of it.
He is intended to be harmless and non violent and nice to a fault, but wildly unconventional and an annoyance (for the sake of humor) especially to Enki with improper behavior. The upset Enki responses and his reaction to it should add more humor. He will be helpful to all if they can stand a little foolishness and distraction in process.
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I kind of assumed Enkis groom pretty much the way other races do, except (according to one NPC dialog) they have a special soap for their fur.
Thus, grooming in public other than washing one's hands or face is most likely as much of a no-no as it is for anyone. :P
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Ermm Enkidukai are not "Cat people" despite what they look like, if you've heard meowing in game then I suggest that those players havent figured that out either, if you want some ancient characteristics to act out try something novel and remember feline-like isnt the same as being a cat
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I don't mean to sound argumentative, but cat and feline are largely one in the same. Cats ARE felines. I am not saying you should laze around in the sun all day like a house cat, but I am not aware of a feline IRL that doesn't enjoy lazing around sunning themselves frequently.
Why is it that cat people and "feline-like" people are supposedly not synonyms? I chose to play a Menki BECAUSE they were cat-like. I do not chase my tail or anything like that, but what is wrong with meowing or purring or rolling-your-r's? It is RP and how someone chooses to play their character.
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This has always confused me. Particularly when they're categorized in-game as a feline race, but there are apparently no other cats in Planeshift. However when you get right down to it, I'd really rather see a single post about the culture of the Ynnwn race as opposed to the full thread with what constitutes feline-like. It's been discussed before-- look up the purring thread in search.
Edit: Found. http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=31679.0
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Sorry, I apparently picked a bad example with the purring. However, cat-like or feline-like behavior should be considered IC and at least when tempered with a bit of sanity and reason, should be considered good RP as well. Enki's obviously don't walk around on four legs, they have some of the qualities of a more human race (marriage, commerce, property, modesty, etc). But that doesn't mean they can't still be more agile, "always land on their feet", purr, and other things from the more feline aspects of their race.
[EDITed for clarification and typos]
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Sadly this is something the developers brought on themselves when they allowed themselves to pander to the pro-cat lobby. I suspect many of them at the time were part of it. But if you really want to play an insane character perhaps you should run around shouting 'Kikiriiiii!' That being the only animal noise I remember seeing expressed.
Sounds to me like one of the books in the library ought to be a comparative anatomy that explicitly shows that Enkidukai vocal organs are more akin to the other sentients than to any beast that growls, mewls or makes any other kind of inarticulate sound. One problem with them that I see is that the elongated "snout" does not appear well suited to enunciation. The sounds we recognize as being speech would seem to depend on a more flattened mouth/lip structure. Perhaps not, though.
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It is far too much to expect that players will not play their Enkidukai characters like cats. It always seemed that Enkidukai were there for players to have fun with, and I have always considered them something special to PS that made this game fun. If players should not act like cats when playing Enkidukai, then remove Enkidukai from the game or change their models completely.
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Basically what verden said... If it looks, smells, feels like a rose... it's a rose regardless of the name you decide to call it.
Enki's look and move like cats. Because of the virtual nature of the game, I have no idea what they smell like, but they should feel soft and furry since they are described to have fur. This makes them humanoid cats. Yes?
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False.
Nature vs Nurture.
Identical twins separated at birth, while they are identical in every way, will not act identical if they grow up in different environments.
Enkis being of sentient mind growing up in a sentient world, would not act like a RL house cat, every though they may share similarities in appearance.
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OK. I can see we are well on our way to another duplicated thread about this topic (even though I wasn't around for the originals). Can you please point me to a official PS reference for the official stance on Enki's? I am having a hard time with the argument of even though they look like cats they have almost nothing in common with cats.
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Just my personal views on the subject, nothing official, but I have always thought the when they were thinking up the race, they were possibly having this in mind: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kzin
BTW, those are good books to read. A tad hard to find though.
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:offtopic: Hey neko! Here you go (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?kn=kzin&sts=t&x=63&y=7) 532 matches for books you can buy online.
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Apropos ... book (+) Enkidukai => http://pswiki.xordan.com (currently down) has an own Enki language "Enkien". Study this (when available again) and you may get a better feeling of the Enki character through the language examples...
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ahh the Kzinti thats more my feeling for Enkidukai and I have been playing one for 3-4 years now, one of my problems with being called cat like is that everyone seems to assume domestic tabby, instead of one of the bigger cats which cant actually purr and only meow when kits.
The other problem is of course we're playing in a fantasy world use some imagination people, instead of just taking RL stuff and dumping it in Yliakum
As for the argument that because it looks like a rock then it is a rock, thats poppycock, Ynnwn and Diaboli look like devils but that doesnt mean they are demonic.
Re: The Enkidukai Language dont forget that it was entirely Player developed and not official
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Ynnwn and Diaboli look like devils but that doesnt mean they are demonic.
Devils do not exist. So we have no basis for what they would behave like or what their culture would be like.
The other problem is of course we're playing in a fantasy world use some imagination people, instead of just taking RL stuff and dumping it in Yliakum
The developers have already done this; rocks, trees, cities, crafting, money, clothing, armour, taverns, roads, et cetera. All of these are RL things that exist in Yliakum. So in this case, if it looks like a rock, it IS a rock.
one of my problems with being called cat like is that everyone seems to assume domestic tabby, instead of one of the bigger cats
Acting like a larger cat or a smaller cat makes no difference here. Bigger cats do purr, but not for the same reasons or at the same times as smaller cats.
So if you bring it in from RL then you are being imaginative. But if you do not agree, then the other party is "lacking imagination."
The "we are playing in a fantasy world" counts towards everyone, including GMs. There is no reason that Enkidukai could not display a range of behaviour encompassing the spectrum from smaller to larger feline species, and including behaviour that is not like anything at all that one would see from RL cats.
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No.
If it looks like a rock, it can be a mushroom. Or a Kran.
I am not really sure what your point is, verden... There are people who criticize that PlaneShift is not realistic enough. Compared to physics, biology, chemistry etc. of the earth, of course. You are now exactly the opposite, you scold the PlaneShift settings for being too unrealistic, comparing artifical races in this fantasy world with existing species of the earth. You both seem to miss that the "Settings" are the common level, when you decide to talk about details. And because the settings define Enkidukai as "feline-like looking, but human-like acting species", it is a fact in Yliakum.
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Bipedal sentient intelligent cats dont exist either so we have no idea what they will behave like nor what their culture would be
In this case if it looks like a rock it could be a Kran.
The bigger cats cannot purr due to an elastic hyoid bone
Actually GMs in game have no IC basis and are not part of the fantasy and I'm not entirely sure why you brought it up or am I not allowed an opinion because I'm also a GM?
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The way I personally look at things: If I wanted to play a cat, I'd go play furcadia. If I wanted to play a proud hunter race, I'd play PS.
Each game has races that have similar looking models, that being feline looking humanoids, but both are quite different due to the setting of the world they reside in.
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One may wish to go to the Library in Hydlaa to read up on the different races and read more about the interactions of the different races. There are some really good books on the subject. There are also inferences that the Enkidukai not have always been treated as equals. This could be valuable information in RPing of a race that 'looks' like a feline race.
The rock theory is great if everyone recognizes the rock as a rock, but what if someone walks up and calls it a rose? To them it may be a rose and not a rock.
Try rping the Crazed Enkidukai the best way you can, and if there is something you do that is so over the top, I'm sure people will let you know in ooc brackets. Just adjust your character accordingly if you want, or not as you want. Worst case scenario is that no one will rp with you, best case is that you will blend in to the scenery like everyone else.
The purpose of a game, rp or not, is to have fun (but not at the expense of others), so, go have fun with your character!
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Big cats can purr when breathing out. It is not in the same manner as domestic cats. I was merely defending those that wish to have fun playing Enkidukai. A rock is not a Kran, it is a rock. It can be food for a Kran, of course. We have rocks in game and the characters do not call them trees, they call them rocks. They are the same as rocks IRL. Any species is going to have those that do not follow the norm. If he wants to play a crazy cat, let him. Sorry, I guess I am just not imaginative enough to play with all of you.
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Sorry, I guess I am just not imaginative enough to play with all of you.
I used to think this way also verden. Imagination comes from all of us. Soon enough you will be wondering what you worried about because role play will be easy. Do not give up. I can tell you it is worth it.
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I was merely defending those that wish to have fun playing Enkidukai. ... They are the same as rocks IRL. ... If he wants to play a crazy cat, let him. ... Sorry, I guess I am just not imaginative enough to play with all of you.
And those of us who actually play the Character of Enkidukai thank you verden!
Is the game centered around RL or is RL centerened around the game... Only point here is there is an opportunity to go beyond the "social" rl norm. When you boil it all down in the end however, It's all about fun as far as I know it, but if we wish to really pick apart the point, then perhaps asking one of the settings people what the deal with the 'humanoid feline looking' people is might be a good way to get more information. (I'm assuming the game people worded it that way for a reason. They could have put feline first, but instead chose to put humanoid. Maybe a clue? There are after all people IRL who have a disease that makes their faces look like lions. Are they really lions? http://www.chinapost.com.tw/print/148479.htm (http://www.chinapost.com.tw/print/148479.htm))
Exactly! Let him have fun!!! That's the point after all, but please don't get down on yourself. We have too many cross-bearers here on the forums and in the game. No one is getting upset with you that I can see so there is no need to self-denigrate.
"I used to think 'THAT' way also verden" until a dear friend of mine reminded me that we are only here to have fun. That fun should not be at the expense of another player's fun, but it should be fun none-the-less. No Worries man.
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Let the people who want to play as cats play as cats. They are not hurting anyone. Sorry for the cross-bearing final comment, I was actually coming back to change that as it was not a fair comment to make. The point is the game should be fun for people. If it is not fun, people leave. Every race has misfits. The Enkidukai distinguish PS from other games, they are special. They are wonderful actually, and very original. It matters not if one knocks every statement I make, newcomers to this game are going to apply catlike behaviour to them. I have nothing to do with this, it is how they are perceived, it is because people love cats, and because it is fun to do so. I dislike the lawyer-like approach to all aspects of roleplay in PS. It is tedious and drives players away. Let people have fun with the game, even if they do not "fit the settings" 100% of the time.
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I totally agree with you verden. It is a game and it should be fun for each person to play in their own way as long as no rules get broken.
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Let the people who want to play as cats play as cats. They are not hurting anyone. Sorry for the cross-bearing final comment, I was actually coming back to change that as it was not a fair comment to make. The point is the game should be fun for people. If it is not fun, people leave. Every race has misfits. The Enkidukai distinguish PS from other games, they are special. They are wonderful actually, and very original. It matters not if one knocks every statement I make, newcomers to this game are going to apply catlike behaviour to them. I have nothing to do with this, it is how they are perceived, it is because people love cats, and because it is fun to do so. I dislike the lawyer-like approach to all aspects of roleplay in PS. It is tedious and drives players away. Let people have fun with the game, even if they do not "fit the settings" 100% of the time.
::|
/me looks at verden, then looks at his own posts, then looks at verden, then remembers something in the tutorial about agreeing to play the game "by the rules" and to fit in with the history and setting of the game, but shrugs and scampers off not caring anymore.
Fun is fun and this isn't anymore. Your taking it waaaay too seriously man. Personally i don't care how they play it. I simply avoid some people in game because of how they act. It's not a problem for me to adjust that way. I would hope that people can be respected both ways, but... well... I guess that too is a stretch and a part of that double standard thing.
/me shrugs again, then leaves for better clacker fields
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I'd guess everyone tries to play his race according to the settings, but since they are so few guidelines, people will always clash about trivial things like purr/not purr while others simply won't care. Besides, not everything can be preset (physiology, psychology, sociology, customs... the Book of Infinite Pages).
To help, I'd like a little info window reminding me IG what my race is all about, something like the little text at character creation.
Actors will also have to add adverbs to their emotes sometimes, so that others have a chance to catch if an action is supposed to be common, rude, slightly mad... How do I know if this smiling Enki is happy to see me or actually showing his teeth to warn me to keep my distances? A little added word to show the intent of an action cannot harm.
If one day we have race-related emotes, that would solve some of the issues here: for enkis, /purr and /roar for example.
One more thing about RL influence on the settings: when basing choices on RL small cats / big cats for instance, one tends to forget the 3rd choice, that is non-RL feline bipeds that can be completely different; they wouldn't bark, since we, real world players, would get confused, but they can have their own sounds, even making use of new verbs. Yes, that's right, Enki don't purr, they schrar and frit. ... or maybe they purr as well?
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All I'm saying is use some imagination -since purring seems to have been chosen as the theme- purr if you like, but just try and not follow the obvious path Real life cats purr, enkis look cat-like, therefore Enkis purr what follows is RL cats sleep 16-18 hours a day, enkis look like cats, therefore I cant finish this roleplay I have to go sleep
ps.I dont stop playing with people just because I dont agree with the way they play
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All good info thanks. I intend to play the character as a "person of cat descent" using stereotypical "racial" behavior as a basis.
Cats are proud animals that have their feelings hurt easier than other animals, they sleep a lot often disappearing when they do, they are fastidious groomers overly concerned with appearance, fascinated with movement and flight, and swat and pounce at things that move. Enki are not cats but look like cats and i assume (yes I know what happens) that they must be of some kind of cat descent. Although "repressed" by their advancement, culture, and society at least some of that must still be there, even if looked down on by Enki as not proper etiquette and causing unwanted stereotyping similar to how people in the real world are stereotyped and others get upset at the behaviors that cause this.
As was suggested I will play the character and take the correction in game as it comes if I take it too far.
Also I have a suggestion that I do not have the capability to implement. To help with issues like this in the future maybe a permanent forum similar to the guilds section could be started for character traits with a separate description area for each type of character and also male and female of the species. If someone could put that list together and submit it to the officials to make it a permanent but modifiable list it would be a good thing. As new Issues and ideas come up the official position could be added to the post creating an evolving and improving description that is more in depth covering culture and everything else as well as links to things like official language listings or unofficial language listings.
Thank you all for the info. I did check out all the sites suggested and got some good info.
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/me really doesn't *smurf* this topic anymore.
I think I am of the same opinion as the majority here... use some common sense... take some qualities that are observed in RL cats (big and small) and add them to the way a 2 legged humanoid with complex speech and social interaction would behave.
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I have seen similar issues with Kran...
Some play their Kran character "dumb as stone", similar to Malko at the ramp to Gugrontid...
And some play their Kran character as social, intellectual being - like the "grandmage" Kemedes.
The physical traits may be dominant in the beginning, but that doesn't mean a Kran would have no chance to build mental traits beyond the average.
And so are Enkidukai. A few might be, let's say, "handicapped / disabled" in some ways. But there can be scientists, priests, artists, aristocrats ... whatever.