PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gavvie Strand on December 30, 2008, 07:13:05 pm
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I like to spend a lot of my time in Ojaveda, but it is really uneventful when it comes to role-play. To many people, Oja is just a place to fight, go on quests, and buy stuff. But Oja should, in theory, be a dangerous exiting place. There are rouges roaming all about and you can have your weapons out (which you can't do in Hydlaa).
So I want to think of plans to increase Oja role-play, but I need the help of people who have been playing longer then I. Any ideas?
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I think the biggest problem with this location is that non-levelling players which are not enkidukai find the travel too onerous. The enkidukai find it too desolate and so migrate to hydlaa.
What might do to counteract these problems is a generous patron who will pay artists to perform and then put on these performances free for the benefit of the community. Now this will not be easy because players cannot produce music, dance movements must need be very simple so that leaves poetry, storytelling and simple theater.
Still a recent event in the secret garden proves it can be done.
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people have tried running markets and special entertainment events there in the past.
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I remember when Einnol tried to make the tavern there a place for people to meet years ago. Good times.
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Well I guess it's kinda the same case that I'm an Enki and I hate the long trip to Hydlaa. I would go to Hydlaa more often but it lags like hell on my computer.
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I know of 2 guilds based in Ojaveda and another who use Ojaveda as a place to lie low for a while. RP can be good, and will be when the other areas are opened up. But right now there is just not enough in Ojaveda to attract people there.
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Before characters started to spawn there, all the roleplayers would hang out at Brado's in Ojaveda since it was a safe haven from new players and levelers.
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Jangeol used to spend most of his time in Oja... but the place is so desolate now. I guess the lack of anything to do there other than roleplay with other characters make it an unattractive spot. I still check Brado's every time I go there, but nobody is ever there :(
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When I see something like this, to me it almost begs for the Demorian Lords Part II ;D
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Dermorian Lords? I've heard of it but never was told the full stroy, does anyone have a link?
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The Dermorian Lords was a bunch of Dermorians that used to enslave enkis. It all ended with a big war in Ojaveda. A blockade first, then 2 battles in the warehouse destrict. the Lords were eventually slain and all slaves were released again
To read the full story, check this link: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=27025.0
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thanks :D
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I have always thought that if some races had a temporary spawn point in Oja instead of Hydlaa, would help promote more roleplay there.
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I think the opposite is true, since there was more roleplay there when there was no spawn there at all.
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Though, back then wasn't there more Roleplay, period?
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I think eventually, when faster modes of transportation are implemented there will be more roleplay in more places. 'tis only a matter of time.
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simple rule of humans: people gather where people are gathered.
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Xillix... how dare you!!! I want to be DIFFERENT!!! Just like those people over there...
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Timmothy, yes there was more rp back then, just like there is more roleplay today than there will be tommorow, and there will be more tommorow than the day after that.
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Xillix... how dare you!!! I want to be DIFFERENT!!! Just like those people over there...
I don't think people roleplay just to be different. People roleplay because they enjoy it.
Timmothy, yes there was more rp back then, just like there is more roleplay today than there will be tommorow, and there will be more tommorow than the day after that.
I don't think this is necessarily true. It depends on how you make the game.
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I like to spend a lot of my time in Ojaveda, but it is really uneventful when it comes to role-play. To many people, Oja is just a place to fight, go on quests, and buy stuff. But Oja should, in theory, be a dangerous exiting place. There are rouges roaming all about and you can have your weapons out (which you can't do in Hydlaa).
So I want to think of plans to increase Oja role-play, but I need the help of people who have been playing longer then I. Any ideas?
Maybe there just aren't enought "roleplayers" online to cover all the cities. But then again, if some are fighters and fight in Ojaveda isn't what they do "roleplaying"? I mean, they do play their role after all.
But maybe your standards concerning "roleplaying" are just too high and "their way of playing their role" doesn't suit yours?
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You beat me -_-
rofl bcuz i train
lets duel again heal me
lol no
>:(
haha fine
<jumping about>
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Sorry Zanzibar... I will try to be more clear. This situation would actually be "I want to do something DIFFERENT... but nobody is here for me to do it with". PLEASE don't take this out of context or read anything more into it...
I think that Arerano hit the nail on the head. Everyone RPs differently... you just have to find people who RP the way you like to RP in order to enjoy PS to it's fullest. Right now most people I encounter in Ojaveda RP by actually doing things, not just sitting around talking about things. I interact with people at Trasok's and around town as my character would. Normally these are not long encounters, but there are exceptions.
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Maybe there just aren't enought "roleplayers" online to cover all the cities. But then again, if some are fighters and fight in Ojaveda isn't what they do "roleplaying"? I mean, they do play their role after all.
But maybe your standards concerning "roleplaying" are just too high and "their way of playing their role" doesn't suit yours?
This is going to be a bigger and bigger problem as the game world increases. The bigger the world is, the more spread out people are. The more spread out people are, the less they interact. The less people interact, the less roleplaying there is.
It's an interesting problem that requires a creative solution.
Sorry Zanzibar... I will try to be more clear. This situation would actually be "I want to do something DIFFERENT... but nobody is here for me to do it with".
Ah.
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[ungodly exaggeration]
You beat me -_-
rofl bcuz i train
lets duel again heal me
lol no
>:(
haha fine
<jumping about>
[/ungodly exaggeration]
I think friendly dueling CAN be in character if you want it to be. What is more IC for a warrior to do, sit in the tavern telling tales of his grand adventures, or proving himself in honorable duels in the arena? There's no right answer, and neither is OOC.
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Did I say anything about dueling being OOC? No. I simply showed you an excerpt of what I saw in Oja last week. You can have your duels, I really don't care, they can be amusing at times but some of the stuff I see in Oja darn near every time I'm there is annoying as hell.
Really, I don't expect a whole lot to be done about it, other than how it currently works; have less that a lot of RP in Oja. Oja is amazing for gaining ranks at low levels, and I'm no god, I was exactly like that, in Oja when I first started. Did I want some nazi RPer screaming at me? Not at all. In fact, one did and it annoyed me to no end. But eventually, with gentle guidance from a few key people I grew out of it and learned how not to fail at playing this game.
Give the noobies their Oja. They'll come to Hydlaa when they're ready.
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I hate to say it... but a lot of people I know of avoid Hydlaa just for that reason. They don't want to be called out for not living up to someone's standard of RP. I personally avoid Kada El's for this reason.
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Maybe thats better for all parties.
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Completely agreed. When I was a noob, I avoided Hydlaa because it terrified me. I was afraid of getting called out on bad RP. Why? Because my RP was bad. So everyone won.
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I sincerely do not see this as a good thing, but at least we all agree that this happens.
[EDIT] Please explain to me how being your character means that your RP is bad? I think some people just hold this RP concept in such high regard that unless you can pull Shakespeare out of your nether regions on a whim, they think you are bad at it...
[EDIT2] Going into Hydlaa should not feel like walking into the lion's den... or am I missing something? Is hanging out in Hydlaa without being called out for bad RP is a status symbol like wielding "finest" weapons is to a warrior... or slinging realm 5 spells is to a mage?
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Unless your character can pull shakespeare from the aforementioned area you shouldn't have to and those who disagree are simply foolish. On the other hand you should be in character. Bad rp is not being in character and staying away from places with high concentrations of rpers untill you have a fair grip of the concepts is a good idea.
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Bad rp is not being in character and staying away from places with high concentrations of rpers untill you have a fair grip of the concepts is a good idea.
Exactly. I didn't not have aforementioned grip of the concepts nor did I stay in character, or really have a character. So I avoided Hydlaa. If being the Lions den means that it keeps RPers like I was away, then IMO nothing should change there.
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All the maps are for everyone and nobody should feel they cannot go someplace because someone else might make fun of them. End of story.
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Thats true. But discomfort is not encouraged :P
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well the guild houses would be an exception.....
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This is where I feel that I may not be making my point... I DO stay in character. I also play the game... mechanics and all. Maybe my experience is just odd, but I don't think so from the reputation of Hydlaa... and Kada El's specifically... that those that like to nitpick others hang out there.
I also do not for the life of me understand why a "tavern" is the center of all RP in PS. I understand this thread basically asking why the RPers don't leave Hydlaa. If they are not nitpicking others... I do not see why they shouldn't be adventuring or exploring other areas. In my years of gaming (table top) the adventures may have started at the Tavern (read: plot hook), but certainly didn't stay there for any length of time...
Also, for the record... unless i was AFK I have never ignored anyone who came up to me and tried to start a conversation. Though I have been equally ignored and rebuffed for my attempts to start a conversation...
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Give the noobies their Oja. They'll come to Hydlaa when they're ready.
Oh no. Is exactly what I want Oja NOT to become. I agree that Oja is a great place for noobies to level up and such, but I don't want people to think it a place just for noobs. Also role-play can be intimidating at first. When I first went to Hydlaa, RP nazi were all over me. But I think I learned more about RPing from them then any one. Some of them should be a little less harsh, but it's good to have someone to help you recognize your mistakes.
Fighting is probably one of the most IC things that someone can do, but I think it's just a little weird when thats the only thing that everyone in town is doing. Fighting things like Rouges makes good sense for the characters own protection. Dueling is great too, but there should be more reason behind it then "hey, wanna fight?".
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Ojaveda for noobs? Will it be like "The Dome is for RPers, the noobs have to start in the level below it" in the future?
[sarcasm start]Maybe those levels could represent the "RP standards", noobs start in the lowest levels and the more "interested/skilled" they are in RPing, the further they can walk up and The Dome will only serve for the RP elite. [sarcasm end]
If you have to grind for hours/days in weeks it's usually OOC-driven.
It's a "single player aspect", you don't need any interaction with other players at all to fight a rouge a zillion of times.
This is why a city can "feel" dead even if there are quite some people. Or the mines, people even walk into each another, stand INSIDE others and mine.
The "being OOC" is another thing, why did "they" start playing PS in the first place? To have RP? To stay IC?
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I also do not for the life of me understand why a "tavern" is the center of all RP in PS.
The tavern is (so you say) the center because there must be a center. For this exact reason:
This is going to be a bigger and bigger problem as the game world increases. The bigger the world is, the more spread out people are. The more spread out people are, the less they interact. The less people interact, the less roleplaying there is.
Now, Harnquist used to be the center of all RP at some point. Long ago devs stated over and over that hanging out at the smithie was bad roleplay. We listened I guess (and the world grew). The smithy is usually empty now, or hosts only the crafters and the newbies who just came out of the tutorial or are still stuck in the sewers. Shall we also move away from the tavern? Where to, the dungeons? ;)
On topic: There are a few reasons why I don't go to Ojaveda. The main one simply because I need to run for 15 mins to get there and usually find people dueling at the gates, and that's being lucky. Either way, all I can find is a -small- bunch of people around Trasok with the swords drawn and a couple or three crafters. Nothing for my character to do there, and the same happens to many others. So I walk another 15 minutes back to Hydlaa hoping to find somebody to talk to. In the end, I just don't bother taking the trip.
Now, I'm cooking something along with some other people to run a day-long event there. Perhaps this is a partial solution to the problem but I seriously doubt the day after the situation will be any better.
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I spend a lot of time in Oja for a simple reason: I like the place, its looks and atmosphere.
I don't spend time in taverns because I have nothing to do there. I RP mostly around smiths (and I don't craft much). I find Trasok's better than ever since a forge was added outside. It's just easier to meet people, crafters, passers-by, anybody to start a chat with. Second, most of my RP would be in the wild, including of course in the mines.
One more thing: it is true that I RP less since spring (or summer, or whenever the major engine change happened; I don't recall exactly). The reason is simply the very high frequency of client crashes. If the statement that there is less RP than before is true, that may be a reason (it's the only one for me). And, of course, it's just temporary.
There is one other thing which, I believe, would add life to Oja: to put some of the tavern's kitchens outside (like Trasok's forge). It would suit the weather and local lifestyle, and make people more accessible. Even tavern tables should be set outside. The carpet shop is the example to be followed.
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There is a kitchen outside just across from Brintec's carpet stand... just outside of Orchibaly's. Just FYI.
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I don't know it that would help. Cooking seems like just another thing to grind.
There are things that can be done to encourage more roleplaying in Ojaveda, but I don't think they'll be done since they've been suggested before.
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I think the real issue is that people don't interact when playing the game (using mechanics). I sometimes find it difficult to chat using the different tabs and continue with whatever task I am doing at the time... but I usually just take twice as long doing whatever task it was... others go the other way...
I think that a LONG term aid could be to improve the chat interface. Another LONG term fix could be to encourage more multi-character activities. Groups aren't really used for much right now except exclusive chat, and helping lower level characters gain PPs for training... imho.
RP could happen anywhere, but the pickier you are about your RP, the less likely you are to find it in any random place you look.
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I think the real issue is that people don't interact when playing the game (using mechanics). I sometimes find it difficult to chat using the different tabs and continue with whatever task I am doing at the time... but I usually just take twice as long doing whatever task it was... others go the other way...
I think that a LONG term aid could be to improve the chat interface. Another LONG term fix could be to encourage more multi-character activities. Groups aren't really used for much right now except exclusive chat, and helping lower level characters gain PPs for training... imho.
RP could happen anywhere, but the pickier you are about your RP, the less likely you are to find it in any random place you look.
You make it sound like the solution is to take grinding out of the game. :)
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Depends on what you call grinding to be honest. I see having to work to make my character better an investment in his abilities. I appreciate them because I had to work for them. But I do believe that some tasks are far more tedious than they need to be. I think that the game must exist for the game's sake first, and then encourage interaction as much as possible. Like it or not, there are times when finding another living soul is difficult because of time zones or where I am in Y'liakum... so if there wasn't something to do in the game, I wouldn't bother... but making interaction easier and even required for some tasks would be a welcome change.
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I saw that kitchen across Brintec' indeed. I'm thinking outside the tavern because of its central position, and proximity to Trasok's. Having small groups of people near other small groups, I believe, helps make the place more lively. Then people attract people, and the small groups are distant enough to keep the chat box clean enough.
Crafting, cooking, or whatever, gives a purpose to the character when nobody is around, and this is very much the point for distant time zones like mine, with an average of 30 to 40 connected players most of the time. Besides, when people do interact the least, in my experience, is while they are running from one place to another. Having people standing long enough in a spot makes them accessible; and seeing them there regularly allows for interactions developments in a natural flow. It is, in a way, the equivalent of a guild house for non guild affiliated characters. A waiting spot, a rendez-vous spot with a purpose.
Currently, one would see more people near the warehouses. And chat and RP happen between mob campers. I think the main sector, around the tavern, can be lively itself if people have reasons to stay there.
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On the topic of grinding: I think that it's okay to train as long as it's realistic. But don't train 24-7 unless your character has OCD ;).
No let's get back to the original topic. Let's try to think of ideas for events. If people get use to going here for events, they will be there more often. And maybe some suggestions to the devs no make to trip to Oja more worth it, and stop it from just being grind central. :D
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Depends on what you call grinding to be honest. I see having to work to make my character better an investment in his abilities. I appreciate them because I had to work for them. But I do believe that some tasks are far more tedious than they need to be. I think that the game must exist for the game's sake first, and then encourage interaction as much as possible. Like it or not, there are times when finding another living soul is difficult because of time zones or where I am in Y'liakum... so if there wasn't something to do in the game, I wouldn't bother... but making interaction easier and even required for some tasks would be a welcome change.
The thing that makes PlaneShift unique is that interaction is the game.
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While I agree that interaction makes the game more interesting, I disagree that the entire point of the game is the interaction. The game (mechanics) is what makes the game playable... it is the interaction that makes the game enjoyable.
You can agree or disagree with me, but this is a very critical point that I think is the core of most of the PLer vs RPer flamewar. This may be also why so many people assume I am a PLer.
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While I agree that interaction makes the game more interesting, I disagree that the entire point of the game is the interaction. The game (mechanics) is what makes the game playable... it is the interaction that makes the game enjoyable.
You can agree or disagree with me, but this is a very critical point that I think is the core of most of the PLer vs RPer flamewar. This may be also why so many people assume I am a PLer.
If by mechanics you mean the ability to log into the game, move around, see things, chat, etc... then yes, the mechanics have to be there.
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Please do not pull semantics into this... I mean the game... the ability to actually DO something... earn trias, craft items, etc. This is a GAME, not a 3D chat interface.
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Please do not pull semantics into this... I mean the game... the ability to actually DO something... earn trias, craft items, etc. This is a GAME, not a 3D chat interface.
Sure, items can definitely be of facilitating value.:)
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game 1 |gām|
noun
1 a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
/me attempts to strike xyz with a sword
Determined by strength skill or luck. If I hit him, I win, so it's competitive. Those are the rules.
Sounds like a game to me.
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The thing that makes PlaneShift unique is that interaction is the game.
I am sorry I have to disagree. This is rather a "would be nice if it were that way" kind of thing which is encouraged by individual players but not the mechanics. (or "the Game")
Mechanics: hit beast C B times to get D P-points and E S-points. Trade E points and F money for G training amount. repeat H times to gain I.
The more often you repeat it in a shorter time the quicker you reach your "godly goal". (maxing a skill is like finishing a game)
So, the "game" is in contrary to interaction since latter would only slower your progress.
It's the players (or rather some few of them) who say "we play it differently". (which, mind!, despite the believe of many, does not mean "let's ignore mechanics at all")
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It depends on what goals you set for yourself. Plenty of players don't bother wasting their time leveling and making money -- Leveling is an unrewarding money chasm. Instead, players explore the game world, form guilds, create fan art and fan fiction, and create stories for themselves and others to live.
It would be nice if the game was better suited to the people who play it, but we're still here, right?
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Leveling is an unrewarding money chasm. Instead, players explore the game world, form guilds, create fan art and fan fiction, and create stories for themselves and others to live.
For those who level, it's not necessarily unrewarding. You can "finish it" (Max out that skill). It's like running through the last "finish line", playing one of the "super mario" games.. it's a "you made it!" feeling.
So the mechanics are there with a reason, but the way they work it just doesn't work well to have those who mainly play for the one reason play together with those who mainly play for the other reason (thus spend a more reasonable amount leveling and a greater amount for actual "interacting").
It's not as easy as saying "for each their own", cause both kind of players are there and will meet then and when and maybe even have some kind of interaction.
Now it's bad for a "so called roleplayer" to make things up... but that also means that one who mainly plays for roleplaying can't play "their hero" without playing the game in a way they never intended to.
It's kinda like "mechanics say who plays right" and those who play for other reasons, will sooner or later go.
It's the mechanics which say which kind of game it can be and dependant on that the "fitting" people are attracted.
However, one must not say that "the one" or "the other" kind of playing is right and the other way is wrong,..
but we're still here, right?
Dependant on who "we" are/is, well.. yes, some are.
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Keep the thread on topic please.
If you would like to make yet another thread about why rp is dying please go ahead and do that.
This thread is about Ojaveda and specifically to encourage people to roleplay in Oja.
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It's kinda like "mechanics say who plays right" and those who play for other reasons, will sooner or later go.
It's the mechanics which say which kind of game it can be and dependant on that the "fitting" people are attracted.
No. You're actually, really, really wrong. It's an incomplete game, mechanics are extremely underdeveloped and still being worked out. Settings determine your character, not mechanics. For example. Settings allow me to avoid a magic spell that would one-hit me, then flee the scene to avoid a fight. Mechanics do not.
Not that, I'm criticizing mechanics, I appreciate what we have done so far, but the people who worship an incomplete system as the the one and only truth deserve to be smote.
EDIT - Sowwy, Xilly, that'll be all.
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Settings determine your character, not mechanics.
I have to disagree here. You can't simply say "my character is one of the best swordfighters" without having the mechanics/skills backing up your claims.
Now lets assume you have RP in Ojaveda which has little protection by guards, your character being a "good swordfighter" (by your own made-up settings), what are you going to do if someone challenges you? Decline? Make your character run away? Call the guards who apparently don't do anything against the rogues there either?
But to get more On-Topic: Find some IC reasons to go to Ojaveda and just do it. Take "IC friends" with you onto your journey and I am sure some more will join your RP there too.
One reason could be "buying carpets"... but I am not sure if you can buy carpets there yet. Last time I checked, Brintec didn't know that he doesn't have carpets.. maybe the Ojaveda air didn't do him too well.
But there ought to be more than "excitement and danger", I would say possibly fear! What if the illness finds a way to spread?
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I'll admit that although Janzeth has wanted to RP he haven't really due to the fact he's in Oja so much. But just recently that changed. Now he finds himself thrust into this world of RP that has traveled form Oja, to the Arena, and (of course) to Hydlaa by Harny's. The thing is he was mining when it started, not even really expecting anything. His motto of being friendly, greet people you don't know, and help when you can eventually blossomed into a great RP experience.
Now I know there are experienced players in Oja all the time. I see them over and over again. But I'm always approached by "noobs" rather than experienced RPers and my attempts at interaction are rebuffed enough that I'll admit I don't really try to much anymore. But if we all just took a little time away from training once a day I think we could turn Oja into a RP hub.
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I stopped reading the replies since the RP argument began...
Anyway, Oja is just an easier place to move around in general, very open and spacey but also has the right features for great RP opportunities (stalls, taverns, kitchens...and other nick-picks).
With training places and mining places nearby, who wouldn't like this place?
Yeah, I'm just against going to Hydlaa right now, it's so big and winding that I get lost in every direction I turn. And when its so big, how can you find people anyway? At least in Oja you can basically see where most people are and can keep track of the NPCs :)
And that's my two cents.
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Law of averages. With people, there is bad people. With bad people there is death. With no place to hide, is guaranteed :)
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I'll be trying to bring some RP to Oja. Not on a daily, 24/7 extent, but markets every so often, events and ceremonies.
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Law of averages. With people, there is bad people. With bad people there is death. With no place to hide, is guaranteed :)
but i haven't done anything wrong to them :'(
and with no place to hide, there sure is more room to run :thumbup:
-to flee and call for backup!
and backup you will get with people seeing you in oja
and thus survival is guaranteed
and friendship as a possible bi-product.
I'll be trying to bring some RP to Oja. Not on a daily, 24/7 extent, but markets every so often, events and ceremonies.
yes! sometime soon, i hope :D
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I think if you want RP to grow in Oja then people that know how RP need to sit down and teach new players. ( Plant some new seeds ) It doesn't make sense to just herd everyone over there and delete what few players are are in Hydlaa. I'de be interested in starting an RP event in Oja if I can find some noobies who want to learn to RP and hopefully some more experienced players who would like to play too. Rigwyn would probably be smart to get the hell out of Hydlaa until things cool off a bit anyway.
If anyone is really serious about this and would like to work on training new players and getting some good guy / bad guy RP going in Oja then let me know.
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Wear a cloak and raid a market I organise... it'd make a nice test for my clan (who are my little pack of Oja-newbs to train RP into)