PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: shorty13 on January 22, 2009, 06:31:48 pm
-
I had this idea and I am wondering what the players and GM's thought of it. I honestly think it is a good idea, but I can see that some people would not like the change, so in me stating this, please don't flame. critique/criticism is great though :-)
Now many many players like to come in the game RP'ing as if they are already at least a half-way decent mage, swordsman, crafter, etc. Honestly, I believe more players than not like to, though there are still some who do not. This got me thinking that maybe during character creation, a player should have a set amount of 'levels' they want to use, say 50, 75, or 100. Prior to entering the game for the first time, the user will be able to distribute these points as he or she wishes to whatever skills they want, such as putting brown way up to 60 and alchemy to 15, if 75 points are allowed. This, I think, would make a better RP environment and help bridge the increasingly large gap between the true RP'rs, the PL'rs, and those who lie between. This can also help cut out much of the grind that most players can't stand with the current method to advance in rank. If players still wish to get stronger, then they will have to grind for cash and progression points, but they may be happy where they are. Of course, the best way to implement this would be after a full character wipe so it is fair for everyone, but that is not the subject of the topic and even so, it is not completely necessary.
What do you think of this idea?
-
The idea is not bad... and the character creator does this already to a smaller degree. The problem really is where to draw the line. Is giving someone 60 levels really a good thing? Is giving someone 20 levels not enough?
This idea, or similar ideas, get tossed around ever couple of months... They just don't usually get very far.
-
I vote for maxing certain skills and stats on creation, that'd really help roleplay a lot. Or rather remove PPs and implement player training.
-
UTM talked about this mostly I think, wasn't it? I agree though.
-
within about 10 hours of play I was able to kill ulbers...
Touchs on some good points, esp if one should have to pick and chose which skills to train, or just train everything, etc. It is so hard to play PS for long, as it is without killing rats being boring, thus making much of the game moot, as it is. Once again, maybe I enjoy the process too much, but I think if they were to do something like that, then it should make it even harder to take even rats. Want to put all your levels into mining? well, you better be ready to mine for a long time to get the PPs to hunt Kikiri for a few days before daring to take those nasty rats on... Want to put all your levels into cooking... ok.. but good luck. oh, and go ahead and put your levels into lockpicking or some other non-implemented skill. hehehe, OOPS.
Otherwise most will end up just being able to kill Ulbers and trepors from the start, making rats, gobbles, clackers and yes, even kikiri obsolete.
I guess the devil would be in the details. I sure would like to know who developed those cool rats, even the robust ones, and see what they think about how few pple hunt them anymore. If this was real-ish, the rats would be running out of the sewer and there would be a bounty on their tails, to encourage hunting them... unless Gorbiak and his family are eating them all, eh?
-
Not to go off topic here, but I cannot help but wonder what happened to the role play that I learned when I first started that was more about the characters then the PP, grinding and stats? In those days we did not care about those things. It was more about the story WE were creating in game and the friends we had.
-
Mathy, I am unclear how working on, or even just discussing the mechanics of the game is mutually exclusive to RP. Infact the original post cites helping RP'ing for the reason for the post.
I do wonder who this "WE" are, but I do not see how this idea prohibts anyone from making freinds or even would have an effect on anyone's current RP storyline.
-
Mathy, I am unclear how working on, or even just discussing the mechanics of the game is mutually exclusive to RP. Infact the original post cites helping RP'ing for the reason for the post.
I do wonder who this "WE" are, but I do not see how this idea prohibts anyone from making freinds or even would have an effect on anyone's current RP storyline.
Bamko I wish us not to argue this point because I think of you as a friend. In any case 'WE' were the characters of long ago that RP'ed in a very different way then it is done today. Yes, I mined gold in those days, I even killed a rat once, but that part of the game rarely became part of the role play. It was different then.
-
When people enter the game as a skilled or famous person, they're actually in violation of the settings. PlaneShift was supposed to be a game where you started off as a nobody and then worked your way to fame and fortune. The slogan has been abandoned though since all the players ignored it.
-
When people enter the game as a skilled or famous person, they're actually in violation of the settings. PlaneShift was supposed to be a game where you started off as a nobody and then worked your way to fame and fortune. The slogan has been abandoned though since all the players ignored it.
I remember that zanzibar and you are correct. It was part of our role plays as a matter of fact.
Though we should allow this thread to go back on topic. Sorry for the diversion.
-
Zanzibar and Mathy, I believe both have good points. First off, this would not inhibit those who roleplay, like the good ol days when stats didn't matter, at all and if anything will help support it as players can actually somewhat act/use skills in-game as their character should be able to according to how/what they are roleplaying as. Also, those who feel they need to have some ranks in specific skills before he or she can adequately RP his/her character will be able to RP straight off the bat.
As for Zanzibar's statement, I do find that interesting, however that is very old and something that didn't stick. If little to no players stick to it, than it really cannot be enforced too well. This is how things, such as games, evolve and change a little, and should be tolerated and allowed to keep it going. Therefore I do not believe this is much of a problem, setting wise, unless GM's and Talad strongly believe players must start as peasants, with no room for exceptions. Also, if a player does want to start from scratch, he or she does not have to use all the points allotted at all.
Another point was brought up: How many ranks would be allowed? What is the cut-off? This would ultimately be up to the settings team, however think of it like this. How many ranks of magic, weapons, crafting, or armor do you need to be successful, not just against npc's but against other players as well. When you claim to be an excellent mage, or master of axes and someone tells you to prove it, how high do you need to be to do so? Personally I believe a lot should be used, such as 75-100. Many players have higher stats than 100 in several skills, but 100 is also very high in itself. However, a player who puts 100 in one skill will have nothing in others, such as armor, which may force smart players to split it between 2+ skills.
This also does not include the main attributes such as str, end, int, etc. but I believe in choosing races at character creation is sufficient as those attributes change with each rank (may also think about increasing the amount of ranks per attribute since the cap has gone up significantly since the attributes coming with each race was first implemented)
-
Maybe instead of points one could choose a certain number of main and secondary skills. These would be a lot easier to train than other skills making it possible to max them out quickly. The secondary skills would take longer and the other skills would just be as hard or harder to train as they are now. This way you'd start off a peasant but with the innate talent for the skills you chose and with a reasonable limit as to how many skills a character should be able to master in order to keep realism.
-
I know lets just adjust our stats and skills every time we log on and again when we log off, that way we can play anything we want and not have to bother with unseemly training.
-
That is worse than the current system in my eyes, Dajoji, except if your character was able to change his main skills through some effort. The limitation to them staying main and secondary skills would be purely OOC.
-
Monkey wrench time... Let's say you give 100 levels... what is to stop one person from completely breaking the system by creating an alt for each skill/way? Start with a 100 level metallurgist and a 100 level miner... then augment your other characters however you want with the trias earned by those two characters...
How does this help the game? I'm not trying to say that this is a bad idea, I've just been thinking about it and this is just one way that I can think of for this to be abused.
-
Maybe it would be best if each race started off equally in the beginning.
-
That is worse than the current system in my eyes, Dajoji, except if your character was able to change his main skills through some effort. The limitation to them staying main and secondary skills would be purely OOC.
Not really, people have talents in certain areas and learn faster. Saying that designating those areas is OOC is saying like having anything to do in your characters creation is OOC :P
I like the idea but, it's been discussed a lot. Keep going, by all means, maybe you'll think of something new. As for the skill points at the beginning, I don't really like that idea as Myth pointed out, it's somewhat exploitable.
-
Add a lot more professions for parents to the character generation screens. Choosing exceptional for them then gets you some maxed levels, but still works within the limited CP pool when making the character.
-
That is worse than the current system in my eyes, Dajoji, except if your character was able to change his main skills through some effort. The limitation to them staying main and secondary skills would be purely OOC.
Not really, people have talents in certain areas and learn faster. (...)
Exactly. A few things are naturally easy for me to do and learn while others take me a lot more time to learn and that can be perfectly IC in-game as well. If you are born with certain innate abilities then you should also be born with certain limitations.
-
I did suggest in the past (not long ago) that giving players a one time use of "/setskill me" would aid in RP.
-
Monkey wrench time... Let's say you give 100 levels... what is to stop one person from completely breaking the system by creating an alt for each skill/way? Start with a 100 level metallurgist and a 100 level miner... then augment your other characters however you want with the trias earned by those two characters...
How does this help the game? I'm not trying to say that this is a bad idea, I've just been thinking about it and this is just one way that I can think of for this to be abused.
This would really only affect crafting, and crafting should be only a small part of the game.
Crafting is inherently non social anyway, so I don't think there's much reason to be concerned.
People do chat while mining. They chat less while crafting, but it happens.
People will continue to chat while doing these things, even if they're switching from character to character. Unless they weren't going to chat anyway.
What might be lost is player to player trades, but those are a relatively poor form of social interaction.
-
from my perspective I tend to like Dajoji's line of suggestions. Just seems closer to how abilities would really be acquired in the reality of Yliakum.
Would the limitations be OOC? I don't really think so...those limitations would be part of the "character" of the Character. To me a facet of OOC is something unreasonable with the settings or illogical for gameplay...so to me, a new person, to creat a character who is already a skilled warrior would be OOC...because I'd have know idea what I was doing.
the game to me has more depth if my character is of equal ignorance as I.
Now...what happens when I learn a bit...and want to create a new alt....still think that the alt should have to learn before I RP that alt powerfully....seems like that's what connects the game of RP and the game of PL. The skill leveling forces one to learn prior to RP that skill.....the system just isn't ideal, because the games still being created...
seems it'll all be smoother as things progress....we need RP to keep things fun and interesting....we need some leveling to have an actual game to play....but that's just me...
-
I think RP is what makes up this game. I do not think many people actually like leveling up, but do so to act like "a strong warrior" and be able to back up their claims.
Also a character could instead start with one stat maxed, and I do not think the devs would oppose this a lot since they just maxed out many player's stats in december from what I hear.
If you like leveling, then there are dozens of other skills and stats to level as well that can keep you busy for a very long time. This way allows everyone to be happy, and provides a conducive RP environment.
Any input from Dev's??
-
Players don't enjoy leveling, but they do enjoy the rewards of leveling.
I don't really buy into that system anymore though.
-
I reluctantly get pulled back into this debate...
It is valid to say" I do not like leveling" or even "I do not think that many people do not like leveling" but it is invalid to say "Players don't enjoy leveling"
I am a player, and I enjoy working hard to see not only improvement in my character, but improvement relative to others who do not bother to train. What you call "leveling".
I enjoy the process so much I have started at least 8 characters in PS, just to keep the process fresh and to compare relative rates of improvments among different techniques. I also have close to a dozen Characters in another game I play. To be clear I joined a guild in one so I could donate 95% of my expereince to the guild, to decrease how fast I level so I could better enjoy the process, and learn more about the game!
Am I a majority? No, I suspect not. But do I exist? yeah, I think I do. (gooOOOO Descartes!)
I believe Zanzibar does not enjoy leveling. I also believe he tends to try to speak with more authority than he possess. When you try to speak for everyone, you speak for me. Please do not do that.
thesoundless's statement... "I do not think many..." is fine. I disagree with it, but it is a valid assertion.
I also suspect that how levels are handled in PS is pretty much set, and thus this self flagellation is moot.
I think the debate topic is a good one, but I notice emotions tend to rule the day when it is applied to PS specificaly. I wonder if there is a forum somewhere on the internet where Devs are/have discussed this already. PM me if you know of one. I would like to link to it on one of my sites.
of course, http://mu.ranter.net/theory/general.html (http://mu.ranter.net/theory/general.html) has a lot of good ideas as a starting point for stuff like this.
-
By all means, increase the character creation options so that more practical builds can be created. But I do not think, by any stretch of the imagination, that levels should be allowed to be allocated at will to 100. Allowing people to create characters with maxed skill levels just makes all the work anyone put into their characters to be useless and destroys the point of the game.
Is this a game? Then there are rules. If there are no rules and anyone can do anything they want, then what is the point of all of this work and development? If we spend eight years hashing over mechanics and in the end all those systems are dropped, then what was the point to begin with?
There have been times when features that many thought would be great, turned out to be a waste of time. One time was the "introduction system". Does anyone have an estimate of how much time went into discussing openly, then discussing privately, then implementing, then testing the "introduction system"? All of that work ignoring much original input from team members that indicated that it would be a waste of time, I might add.
Seriously, if you open the game up for arbitrary builds that do not cost the player anything to achieve, then it is a huge glaring, sign that the game is not taken seriously by the developers. Add some more options to character creation to build out characters and leave it at that.
This argument is very similar to the argument that the art and content of PS should be free and open for everyone. In other words, everyone wants something but they don't want to pay for it.