PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: Tuxide on February 06, 2009, 06:54:53 am
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That's like telling someone on this forums to go buy a house or to go make a baby. You just don't say that kind of thing casually to people you don't know very well because it's rude. I don't want to see people casually linking to the nexus page every time I come here. If you want to recruit then please be serious about recruiting people; that way people will know you are serious about recruiting. I know recruiting is an important thing here and this is why I take recruiting seriously in my guilds, and not just casually like some guilds have done.
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I read it now several times and have really no clue what it is about...
Sen
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Well then maybe you should all go to http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html and find out. If everyone went there and if everyone who ever visited this forum was a PlaneShift prospect, then maybe they'll stop asking people to go there on the whim. I am just annoyed of seeing this URL during times that I believe are inappropriate.
EDIT: Sorry this is on the wrong forum, this should be in complaint department.
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Tux, I'd like to take this time to point you to our recruitment page, http://www.planeshift.it/recruitment.html
You can apply there and if accepted work your way up the chain and one day you will be able to express your opinions of having people not tell other people to go apply on the recruitment page any time they want to make a change to the policies of the project.
:whistling:
Edit: moved it for yeah. :)
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Perhaps tuxide, you should make it clear what you are talking about.
You seem to have lost everyone reading this thread entirely as to what it is you want to point out.
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yes, indeed. You start with "That's like telling someone on this forums to go buy a house or to go make a baby. " That's? What that are you refering to exactly?
you allude to several things, but I am still moderately confused. now, if you had said "See: <insert specific link here> That's like telling someone on this forums to go buy a house or to go make a baby. " We would have more than a decent clue.
Just trying to help.
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All I can infer from this is that someone told Tuxide to go get a job. It is a pretty lame comment player-to-player in a MMO. But oh well, whaddaya goin' to do?
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He means that when someone points out any flaw in planeshift, the first response is "apply for the team and fix it yourself" and it shouldn't be. (I think)
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How else are they going to get people to help make the game all of you so enjoy?
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He means that when someone points out any flaw in planeshift, the first response is "apply for the team and fix it yourself" and it shouldn't be. (I think)
98% of the time the best way to get something fixed is to be on the team, so i dont see a problem with that statement. You want it changed join the team ;) :P .
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98% of the time the best way to get something fixed is to be on the team, so i dont see a problem with that statement. You want it changed join the team ;) :P .
I hope you're wrong. If so, then that means the development team isn't taking advantage of the large playtest community (sometimes called the player community).
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I hope you're wrong. If so, then that means the development team isn't taking advantage of the large playtest community (sometimes called the player community).
They listen but till you are in the middle of it you dont know what they are looking for to make suggestions. Yes the devs like players feedback, and you can suggest all you want, but if you dont know what type of things are allowed you are just blowing hot air.
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I hope you're wrong. If so, then that means the development team isn't taking advantage of the large playtest community (sometimes called the player community).
They listen but till you are in the middle of it you dont know what they are looking for to make suggestions. Yes the devs like players feedback, and you can suggest all you want, but if you dont know what type of things are allowed you are just blowing hot air.
Are you saying that the player's don't know what the devs are looking for? What does that even mean? If the devs are looking for something specific, isn't it an easy thing to tell the players? Don't the devs tell the players stuff all the time? The developers don't have a secret agenda.
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You people all need to get a job or in some cases a second job. You apparently have too much time on your hands as it is.
Get Back To Work!
:P
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You people all need to get a job or in some cases a second job. You apparently have too much time on your hands as it is.
Get Back To Work!
:P
I only work about 50 hours a week. Maybe that is not enough.
In any case I would think, Zanzibar, the great majority of players do not even read the forums and do not even know they could join the development teams. For that matter I bet most who read the forums do not even play any more.
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My point was that the developers don't have a secret agenda that they're keeping hidden from the players. Yes, they don't tell players about all the upcoming features like spells, and they like to surprise the players with stuff in each release, but I don't understand Caarrie's statement and I want to understand what she was trying to say.
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My point was that the developers don't have a secret agenda that they're keeping hidden from the players. Yes, they don't tell players about all the upcoming features like spells, and they like to surprise the players with stuff in each release, but I don't understand Caarrie's statement and I want to understand what she was trying to say.
that you are wrong and the devs dont tell the players much of anything that they are working on and you can suggest all you want and it might not be in line with the devs have to work on. If the devs told us all they were working on [the players] they would get nothing done as the players would always ask for their requests to be done first and not what talad has on the list. and no i will not reply to this silly thread again.
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My point was that the developers don't have a secret agenda that they're keeping hidden from the players. Yes, they don't tell players about all the upcoming features like spells, and they like to surprise the players with stuff in each release, but I don't understand Caarrie's statement and I want to understand what she was trying to say.
that you are wrong and the devs dont tell the players much of anything that they are working on and you can suggest all you want and it might not be in line with the devs have to work on. If the devs told us all they were working on [the players] they would get nothing done as the players would always ask for their requests to be done first and not what talad has on the list. and no i will not reply to this silly thread again.
Yes, the devs agree with some suggestions and they disagree with others. Yes, players shouldn't control the order that things get worked on. But you said "98% of the time the best way to get something fixed is to be on the team, so i dont see a problem with that statement. You want it changed join the team ;) :P" and "They listen but till you are in the middle of it you dont know what they are looking for to make suggestions. Yes the devs like players feedback, and you can suggest all you want, but if you dont know what type of things are allowed you are just blowing hot air."
I just don't see how your posts connect to one another. I would like to understand you if you let me.
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Long road: make a Feature Request and wait till it gets implemented (assuming it fits the general scheme and it doesn't get locked).
Short(er) road: join the team and see to do it yourself (assuming you have the skills and time to do so).
Either way, suggestions and feedback are always welcome.
Now, back on topic... what the hell is the topic here again?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmbm-3dOKlE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmbm-3dOKlE)
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Long road: make a Feature Request and wait till it gets implemented (assuming it fits the general scheme and it doesn't get locked).
Short(er) road: join the team and see to do it yourself (assuming you have the skills and time to do so).
Either way, suggestions and feedback are always welcome.
Now, back on topic... what the hell is the topic here again?
Apparently it has something to do with becoming a sith lord?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmbm-3dOKlE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmbm-3dOKlE)
banned for posting offtopic info.
or because i was going to post that video link, but got busy at work and i couldn't and you beat me to it
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HAHA well you know how it is, you snooz you lose..
Besides was there ever a topic to go off from???
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I am referring to posts like this one (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29353.msg399482#msg399482) which I've been seeing more common lately. I just don't want the PlaneShift Team giving off the impression that it has a Dark Warmongers recruiting policy (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32584.msg393024#msg393024). From a player's point of view, applying for the team is a much more important decision than, say, downloading and installing psclient, and getting people to do the prior shouldn't be treated as getting people to do the latter. I am not saying don't recruit, I'm saying be more serious about it please if you want people.
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Letting people know they can apply for the team has little to do with actually letting them in.
Also, telling someone to join the team is completely different from telling them to get a job. In fact, development would move much faster if devs actually didn't have jobs, or family, or a life...
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It is work-for-hire, the only difference I see is that it is voluntary. Furthermore, the Dark Empire already turns every thread they post on into a Dark Empire promo thread. I might as well work a link to a recruitment page for <Banker> into every single one of my posts from now on. That way I'm letting people know they can apply for the guild, which has little to do with actually letting them in.
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It is work-for-hire, the only difference I see is that it is voluntary. Furthermore, the Dark Empire already turns every thread they post on into a Dark Empire promo thread. I might as well work a link to a recruitment page for <Banker> into every single one of my posts from now on. That way I'm letting people know they can apply for the guild, which has little to do with actually letting them in.
So not true. For more information on the Dark Empire, please visit http://psdarkempire.19.forumer.com/.
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Or darkempire.xordan.com (http://darkempire.xordan.com). Obviously. :P
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glad to see the link Tuxide. Thanks, now we know the topic for sure. Not sure that will keep it on topic, but at least we know what you meant this thread to be about. It looks like out guesses were really close.
I have been involved in many organizations and I BELIEVE it see both sides of this issue. Of course having said that I also realize that many will disagree with this. (Reminder, you may disagree with me, or anyone else. I am not your boss, relax when someone disagrees with you on the internet people, and try to have a little fun. :P
The Leaders of a volunteer project need to keep their eyes on the milestones and general direction and usually can not spend a lot of time with minutiae and details. (I met one that could do both, but he was 1) retired and as such had no day job. 2) had about 50 years of experience in many areas that helped. and was 3) probably the smartest nice man I ever met (We still miss you Henry..) As such leaders of these volunteer projects tend to seem distant, and keep themselves isolated from the day to day arguments that do not affect the big picture.
Then you have what I call the champions. They dig in and do the big often unglamorous jobs that are vital. They pick up a huge piece of a project and run with it, often with little or no pressure from above. (those that need hand holding soon are fired or quit... as some people are more effort than they are worth. That decision is a tough one, but no volunteer project can succeed without it being made sooner or later, usually made by default, as in no moretasks being assigned to them, and when they stop working on whatever they are working on, they are just allowed to wander off into the sunset.)
Then you have the foot soldiers. They do smaller tasks, but most of your volunteers will be a foot soldier. they can be counted on in a pinch, and they do significant work and many have specialized skills. The champions and ususally the foot soilders themselves are acutely aware of the danger of burning them out. Like a real life foot soldier, if you swarm them, they will be over powered. A few foot soldiers would make great champions, but over all, a volunteer project depends more on a constant and long lived supply of foot soldiers than anything else. Some Champions try to be foot soldiers and some almost pull it off, but it is like a manager of an office spending too much time typing while the rest of the office wait to be told what to do.
Then there are what I call snipers. They join to do a very specific task, one shot, one kill. They may not stick around and become a foot soldier, but they sometimes do so, especially if y ou get them working in a group for that first small job and get them to like being part of the team.
Now they need ideas. sure. But whenever a vendor rep, for example would come to me and tell me "you should do such and such" and there was no foot soldier I could spare, and there was no reason he could not do that himself, I would often tell them: "great idea, here are the resources we have, you need anything else?" and invite them to the team. (see how this is NOT :offtopic: ? )
Most do not care enough, or think being part of the team is too much involvement, but if you want to see it done, you becoming a team member is the best way of doing it. They work for PlaneShift, not for us, we do not pay their bills.
Now having said that, sometimes the team wants to dump new people in as foot soldiers. I would make it easy for people to do small tasks. let the foot soldiers recruit snipers to help them on the tasks they are already working on. let someone who has a good grasp on the graphics and models set up a training/production team to work on it. Of course the FS (foot soldier) would be responsible to send up what they think is a good fit, and the champion would still have final say (unless the Project leader gets involved with that small stuff still.)
another important point. DO you know what an idea that may or may not be decent is called when it comes to a project team without resources? Project creep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(project_management) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(project_management))
nothing can doom a project more subtly.... I bet the DeV Team is not just sitting around thinking "man, if only Bamko would give us an idea of what to do next, we could crank it out this weekend, but we have nothing to do... bummer." heheh, no, they have more work than they can get done quickly, I bet. and we often want them to do our pet projects as well, without helping?
So, when we ask them to do 20 hours of work ( a very small task) and they ask us to join the team if we want to see it soon (rather than Soon(TM) ) we should decide how bad we really want to see the change. Put your time where your mouth is, or say "well, whenever you get time, maybe in a few months I will have time to help you out, thank you though!"
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I bet the DeV Team is not just sitting around thinking "man, if only Bamko would give us an idea of what to do next, we could crank it out this weekend, but we have nothing to do... bummer." heheh, no, they have more work than they can get done quickly, I bet. and we often want them to do our pet projects as well, without helping?
So, when we ask them to do 20 hours of work ( a very small task) and they ask us to join the team if we want to see it soon (rather than Soon(TM) ) we should decide how bad we really want to see the change. Put your time where your mouth is, or say "well, whenever you get time, maybe in a few months I will have time to help you out, thank you though!"
^ this.
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It is work-for-hire, the only difference I see is that it is voluntary. Furthermore, the Dark Empire already turns every thread they post on into a Dark Empire promo thread. I might as well work a link to a recruitment page for <Banker> into every single one of my posts from now on. That way I'm letting people know they can apply for the guild, which has little to do with actually letting them in.
A little self promotion here and there never hurts.....now GET A JOB YOUR LAZY LITTLE URCHIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Much love,
Rob
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@Bamko: Still, transparency is a good thing, and there's nothing wrong with asking questions or having opinions.
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Someone looks like they still have the emotions of a teenage girl. ::)
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Seriously people, get a job (http://darkempire.xordan.com/) ;D. Thanks for the suggestion, Tuxide.
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@Bamko: Still, transparency is a good thing, and there's nothing wrong with asking questions or having opinions.
Maybe volunteer to be the Chair of the Internal Information Liasions committee? Then you can vet questions (you and your committee of other like minded individuals) and answer the ones that the information is already in the bugtracker, forums or wherever else, and you can wade through all of the projects being done (after signing whatever DNAs are needed and being accepted of course) and that way you can be responsible for transparency and questions without the team doing the actual work having to take time out of their limited schedules to do so. Between you and Tuxide, and whomever else, perhaps you could convince the current organization to allow this. :D
Transparency IS a good thing, and there is nothing wrong with asking questions, and surely nothing wrong with having opinions. I believe I am also recognized for having pretty defined opinions myself. :innocent:
Such a committee would also tie into my recommendations about team building from my previous post, but you would have to make it end up being LESS work for current team members for the proposal to work, obviously.