PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on April 28, 2009, 05:30:12 pm
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The thing players call a volcano, or the volcano, is NOT in fact a volcano, it is a crater.
Please refer to it as such.
It is not now, nor has it ever been a volcano.
We will have some volcanoes later, but that ain't one.
That is Shindrok's Crater- It's important that it be remembered as such for later when I release more story on it.
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Sir yes sir.
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aye aye captin' ;D
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Are you sure you wanted to write suck, not such? :)
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Thanks for the clearification. From this moment forward I will refer to the Crater as "Shindrok's Crater". :)
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You should put a sign there on EZ-PC called NOT a Volcano.
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Hehe, i also always saying it, but nobody wanted to trust me. :whistling:
Yes, a crater, thanks for it. \\o//
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I've never actually been to the crater/cano
It's been on my to-do list for ages, but I never get around to actually finding out where it is :P
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I have to call it a volcano to stay IC since that's what my character has always heard it referred as.
I don't believe people mean it's an actual volcano, only that it has the shape to be one... and might be one, although obviously inactive.
How can our characters know for sure that it isn't a volcano? This seems like OOC knowledge.
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Our characters would have no experience of volcanos. A volcano and a stalactite do not work together as concepts.
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I always knew it as vulcano, but I will correct myself from now on... :)
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Our characters would have no experience of volcanos. A volcano and a stalactite do not work together as concepts.
Our characters don't have experience with meteors either, but there's a glyph named meteor.
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crater: Definition from Answers.com
crater n. A bowl-shaped depression at the mouth of a volcano or geyser. A bowl-shaped depression in a surface made by an explosion or the impact of.
;D
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Xillix,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RqSWgv3Nck
couldn't resist.
:P
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The problem is: it looks like a volcano.
There is indeed a crater inside, but the cone is volcano-like.
And you won't see any crater until you climb to the top.
In fact, is it important what we call it ? Or are you just announcing some new book to be released in the library ?
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Trying to nip the festering misnaming in the bud.
In time this and other landmarks will be explained in more detail.
It is not a volcanic crater.
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People can still call it a volcano even if it isn't one. It only makes sense.
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maybe is a meteor crater.... althou is kinda impossible... unless is a magical meteor! ;D
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I think by decree (settings-modding) it is a known landmark, its name is Shindrok's Crater. No one seems to know why though. . .
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so I typed out a scathing reply but then decided against it.
just have to ask though... when you guys built that map, did you have any idea what a crater looks like?
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Why does this even matter?
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I think the crater is the hole where Talad scooped up the material to slam on poor Gugrontid when he was providing the Kran with a homeland.
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I think is a little far to be that.....
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If there are known volcanoes, our characters might refer to Shindrok's crater as a "volcano" for the same reason people in the real world refer to a spider as an "insect" or a slow-worm as a "snake". And the reason does not need to be ignorance, but only different definitions. (Remember, that if definitions of logic conjunctions are applied strictly, a correct answer to "would you like coffee or tea?" would be "yes".) So our characters might very well just define a volcano by the shape of the hill and not by its geological background - as well as real people might do, if presented a similar hill.
Taking further into account, that our IC-language is only an approximation of the In-Game-Common (there is a race, we call "Diaboli" though they are not Diaboli, by the way), ...
Officially declaring it "no volcano" kind of spoils the fun, you could have with the language barrier between non-specialist and specialists:
"This book says, I need to look for a crater between X and Y. But there is none." - "Hmm, let me see. Ah, he is talking about the volcano." - "Why doesn't he say that right away?" - "Because this actually is no volcano" - "Ha, 'no volcano', stupid scientists always sitting in their libraries telling me, I cannot tell a volcano, when I see one."
(Muahahahaha!)
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maybe a sign post would be nice, near the crater to know the name and not be confuse in any moment :)
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I imagine at some point you'll want to know what your characters know about the world, what they are raised learning, etc.
This is one of those things.
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If it was a volcano that would tend to require that the lower levels be full of magma. It is fairly close to the rim/central shaft and likely has much empty space beneath it. Personally I do not expect to see any volcanoes in Yliakum proper given what has been published in the settings. Their could possibly be some lava tubes where the stalactite is fixed to the headrock but I would suspect they would more likely flow on the outside not the interior..
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Our characters don't have experience with meteors either, but there's a glyph named meteor.
I meant the idea volcano, not the symbol volcano.
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I always called it the cratered hill, given the fact that it could not be a volcano (see Prolix's post and look at a few side views of Yliakum and then some profiles of actual volcanoes for ref).
To quote another poster:
crater n. A bowl-shaped depression at the mouth of a volcano or geyser. A bowl-shaped depression in a surface made by an explosion or the impact of.
By that definition, we have four options:
1: volcano
2: geyser
3: explosion
4: impact
For 1, it is not a volcano, as lava does not exist below it. Kadiakos does.
For 2, it is not a geyser, as they are generally not that big, nor does is have any geothermal activity below it (again, Kadiakos)
For 3, a likely candidate for the formation. The cause of the explosion would be in question.
For 4, not likely. If you look around the other maps, and indeed Gugrontid itself, things falling from the Dome do not leave craters, not having the speed or energy behind them to both make a crater and vanish themselves. For those nitpickers out there, something could have perhaps hit the hill (in modern times, this could only be accomplished by a bomb or missile of substantial power), but the impact itself would not cause the depression, bringing the actual cause back to an explosion.
We also have a 5th option that people could have simply dug the top of the hill out a long time ago for unknown reasons, which is very likely as well. It could have been digging for some treasure, a vein of some rich metal, or even a dug out fortification.
A 6th option is erosion by water coming from the dome. I don't know how that would work out in practice, or why the water would not be still falling...
Food for thought.
More food for thought: People in olden times did not have a term for volcanoes until one started smoking and spitting out molten rock. In PS I would assume that most people would also equate a 'volcano' with a hill or mountain that spews smoke, magma, and rock, not a hill with a hole in it. However, you may continue to play ignorant characters if you wish, but make sure the rest of your character's knowledge is also as ignorant, or you will not be playing very consistently. ;)
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I would say that the center of the crater-mountain was once comprised of loose, porous rock that collapsed into the levels below through subsidence. That would be the seventh, and most likely option.
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Limestone (or other) sinkhole, good call. Forgot about that one. Whaha, we could call it Sinkhole Hill. Though, with those smelly ulbers up there, you might want to call it Stinkhole Hill. xD
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By that definition, we have four options:
1: volcano
2: geyser
3: explosion
4: impact
I would vote for #3 explosion.
Since it apparently has a given name Shindrok's Crater. That could suggest that "Shindrok" (individual or forgotten group) was in some manner responsible for the crater. It may be that "Shindrok" only was responsible for its discovery and claimed it as such, Or that "Shindrok may have assumed ownership of that particular part of ground. Another view may have put Shindrok as a center point of a major historical event there.
Either way the name would have stuck and been passed down. Mainly due to the fact that it is a dominating terrain feature of the region. The name would have been passed along through word of mouth as a reference for travelers. The actual history may only be known by learned scholars, leaving only the folklore of the local inhabitants to explain the mystery of the crater and it's origin. The variations would the range in pieces of mixed fiction and fact, depending on the teller of the tale at the time :)
So, i feel that we would know something of it, in name at least. The history would not necessarily be a shared interest of the peoples of Yliakum other then to scholars as a subject of study. The common people would be happy with their versions of folklore. I kinda like the current mystery of the name.
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maybe a sign post would be nice, near the crater to know the name and not be confuse in any moment :)
Indeed. And with a little historical background readable, similar to the "Lake of tears". Just where the rock bridge meets the lower end of the serpent way?
\\o// Pretty please.
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The 'rock bridge' has a name as well, and it is on a signpost. ;)
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:o - This must be the right road, and I always take the left... :-[
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Is there a name for the cave thats closest to the crater ?
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the cave in the crater is the "jade caverns" I believe.
what other caves are there on that map?
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I dont think there is another cave... at least on THAT map... ;D
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the cave in the crater is the "jade caverns" I believe.
what other caves are there on that map?
As far as I know the Jade Caverns are somewhere else. (not 100% sure)
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I was trying to be discreet about revealing the location of the cave. Its the only one that I know of on that map. I too heard it was called the jade caves or jave cavers but was looking for confirmation because I came accross some conflicting information. I don't recall exact details but I think this info ( library book ) indicated that the jave cave was on a lower level. As I understand the lower levels have not yet been implemented.
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When the Jade Caverns go in game you won't have much question about what they are.
The cave mentioned here is just any ole small cave for now.
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I was trying to be discreet about revealing the location of the cave. Its the only one that I know of on that map. I too heard it was called the jade caves or jave cavers but was looking for confirmation because I came accross some conflicting information. I don't recall exact details but I think this info ( library book ) indicated that the jave cave was on a lower level. As I understand the lower levels have not yet been implemented.
D=
I just spent the last hour trying to find this cave. Ugh, it's an exploratory koan.
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You need to right click in the correct spot to bring up the context menu, similar to how the portals work, there is no other way to find it and it is otherwise unmarked.
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no wonder I couldn't find it. well thank you sir, I shall continue to search for it.
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haha!! the NOT VOLCANO became a "where is the cave" post! :P
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from what people are saying they seem to be near each other.
I will find it eventually, even if I have to grid the whole map and click on everything >:]
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I still say it is where Talad scooped out the mass that became Gugrontid. Of course I used to say it was where the ulbernauts went to be encrustallated on their way to being reborn as Kran. I have told a few tall tales such as that in my time. Too bad the settings proves me wrong so often.
By the way you might try asking someone in the game to show you the cave entrance.
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I'm still not sure how our characters are supposed to know half the settings. And if they know half of the settings, which half do they know?
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I found the cave.
The velinshi are adorable.
Now I'm going to see if I can find the other one =)
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I'm still not sure how our characters are supposed to know half the settings. And if they know half of the settings, which half do they know?
Almost all the time the wrong half... haha :P
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I'm still not sure how our characters are supposed to know half the settings. And if they know half of the settings, which half do they know?
Its fairly obvious, your Characters know half the settings because they've lived with them all their lives. As each piece of information is released into the wild its up to you to decide if your character would know it, in this case, a geological location, its safe to assume anyone born/living in the vicinity would know the correct name and the story behind it and possibly those from further afield.
The information in books and quests is more for the Player to learn from than the Character
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I'm still not sure how our characters are supposed to know half the settings. And if they know half of the settings, which half do they know?
Its fairly obvious, your Characters know half the settings because they've lived with them all their lives. As each piece of information is released into the wild its up to you to decide if your character would know it, in this case, a geological location, its safe to assume anyone born/living in the vicinity would know the correct name and the story behind it and possibly those from further afield.
It's not obvious. For years, we were told we weren't supposed to know who Vodul is, even though Vodul is in the settings. It's a medieval setting so most people should be fairly ignorant when it comes to understanding the workings of the social order, unless they have personal involvement or experience. In medieval times, literacy was low, and access to books was a privileged of the few. As far as things having "correct names", history tells us that specific locations can have multiple correct names in real life.
The information in books and quests is more for the Player to learn from than the Character
See? It's complicated.
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IT'S NOT A CRATER, IT'S A HOLE
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IT'S NOT A CRATER, IT'S A HOLE
Don'T shout, as it IS a crater, as that's what the Settings Dept. said.
/me bows before the Omnipotent XilliX *
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A crater is the result of an impact, explosion or eruption. If it is the result of anything else, such as subsidence, then it is a hole. No point shouting it though.
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So the impact of Talad's fingers/will when he scooped out the mass that would become Gugrontid might qualify it for being a crater???
I keep telling you people, you have to use your imagination. After he scooped it out, he squished it and shaped it, transforming it into something suitable to slam on a poor kran's head.
Why are we still arguing about this?
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I just thought that that crater had maybe been caused by the fall of a stalactite of the ceiling of Yliakum, and that had shattered on impact. That's why I prefer to say it is a crater. (my opinion tho)
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It's not obvious. For years, we were told we weren't supposed to know who Vodul is, even though Vodul is in the settings.
Seems obvious to me that Vodul is therefore in the half of settings your character doesn't know
It's a medieval setting so most people should be fairly ignorant when it comes to understanding the workings of the social order, unless they have personal involvement or experience.
Do not confuse Medieval with feudal, Yliakum is a small insular society with a small population, so most people should have a fairly good understanding of their position in society and how to improve oneself.
In medieval times, literacy was low, and access to books was a privileged of the few. As far as things having "correct names", history tells us that specific locations can have multiple correct names in real life.
Refer to my answer above do not confuse Medieval with Feudal, literacy was low in medieval times because of the lack of economic access to books and the written word also church control and other issues, however Yliakum has an abundance of books all freely available in the library, everyone who crafts has books.
See? It's complicated.
Sorry but no I don't see, even before I became a GM/joined Settings I understood the relationship between what my Char knows and what I as a player know, it only becomes complicated when over analysing.
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It's not obvious. For years, we were told we weren't supposed to know who Vodul is, even though Vodul is in the settings.
Seems obvious to me that Vodul is therefore in the half of settings your character doesn't know
And we know that only because we were told that by the devs. From reading the settings, it's not obvious what our characters are supposed to be oblivious to.
It's a medieval setting so most people should be fairly ignorant when it comes to understanding the workings of the social order, unless they have personal involvement or experience.
Do not confuse Medieval with feudal, Yliakum is a small insular society with a small population, so most people should have a fairly good understanding of their position in society and how to improve oneself.
We've been told time and time again that the settings are to have a medieval flavour. How is it feudal? It's more a system of governors than a system of lords. Do the Vegisimi go to war with each other over land and surfs? Not that I know of. And there's a difference between understanding your specific position and function in society and understandind the greater order that you have a place in. You can understand your own personal position without having a clue about the greater social order.
In medieval times, literacy was low, and access to books was a privileged of the few. As far as things having "correct names", history tells us that specific locations can have multiple correct names in real life.
Refer to my answer above do not confuse Medieval with Feudal, literacy was low in medieval times because of the lack of economic access to books and the written word also church control and other issues, however Yliakum has an abundance of books all freely available in the library, everyone who crafts has books.
Maybe crafting books are picture books? Still, we've been told by the developers that our characters are supposed to be "fresh off the farm" right after we created them. They traveled to the big city to become a hero.
See? It's complicated.
Sorry but no I don't see, even before I became a GM/joined Settings I understood the relationship between what my Char knows and what I as a player know, it only becomes complicated when over analysing.
I don't see it as over analyzing. I'm just going by what I've been told. You know me -- I'm very obedient when it comes to instructions. But when instructions contradict each other, there's a problem.
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Well you're still over analysing my replies
Being told something by the devs, hmm like being told what the settings are? There's no difference between what you read as settings and what you've been told by devs
How does "don't confuse medieval with feudal" become suggesting we have a feudal society? As the free availability of books would show even the lowest of peasants would have a good idea of the government of the day and how the system works.
"Fresh of the Farm" means illiterate? or ignorant and unable to think for themselves? Once more the freely available books would soon stop that as for suggesting picture books for the crafters thats clutching at straws.
There is nothing contradictory about it at all. Your character has grown up in Yliakum all his/her life therefore it's commonsense to accept that your Character knows a lot more about his world than you the Player does
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Well you're still over analysing my replies
Being told something by the devs, hmm like being told what the settings are? There's no difference between what you read as settings and what you've been told by devs
How does "don't confuse medieval with feudal" become suggesting we have a feudal society? As the free availability of books would show even the lowest of peasants would have a good idea of the government of the day and how the system works.
"Fresh of the Farm" means illiterate? or ignorant and unable to think for themselves? Once more the freely available books would soon stop that as for suggesting picture books for the crafters thats clutching at straws.
There is nothing contradictory about it at all. Your character has grown up in Yliakum all his/her life therefore it's commonsense to accept that your Character knows a lot more about his world than you the Player does
I too think I'm using common sense.
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We'll be addressing more specifically what you do and don't know in a subsequent release.
We've quite a bit that isn't in the players' hot little hands but we still need to establish greater consensus among the devs on how it all breaks down.
I wish I could share more of the story today but that would probably result in more confusion and alternate versions to confuse the issue.
I hope soon to illustrate the manner in which THIS settings team has interpreted the legacy of previous settings team incarnations.
In the meant time, all you need to know is it's a freakin crater and it's known as Shindrok's Crater to your characters.
Why it takes 5 pages of debate to establish such a fact is precisely why if it weren't for a few devs and prospects willing to endure the absurdity of certain things on the forum, your cries would fall on deaf ears.