PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on May 10, 2009, 06:22:42 pm
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I took many of the questions from http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php
I am interested to know, if you had to pick ten of the above what would you allot priority to?
You get ten votes.
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Storylines is up there twice, does that mean that it's the highest on your list Xillix? ;) I think player ability to impact the world and storylines are the two biggest for me.
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Is this for Fragnetics or EZ-PC?
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Quit being obtuse, these questions apply to the whole project.
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Some of the options didn't really make sense to me. "Social tools"? Does this mean the buddy list? The guild system? Groups? Avatars?
Number 1: Get rid of progression points.
Number 2: Add clothing options to the game.
Number 3: Make quests point and click.
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@ zanzibar:
Number 1: Will be done sometime. (very big and difficult task)
Number 2: The code supports it. It's "simply" a matter of adding necessary art. (If there's an artist out there who feels compelled, do help!)
Number 3: Done. (Due next release)
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@ zanzibar:
Number 1: Will be done sometime. (very big and difficult task)
Number 2: The code supports it. It's "simply" a matter of adding necessary art. (If there's an artist out there who feels compelled, do help!)
Number 3: Done. (Due next release)
I know.
Edit: I just realized something. Two different questions are being asked.
Question 1: Which features do you feel are most important to PlaneShift?
Question 2: Which features do you think should be given priority in improving?
A feature might be very important to PlaneShift, but not be in need of major improvements. So it might be a candidate in answering question 1, but it shouldn't come up in answering question 2.
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Quit being obtuse, these questions apply to the whole project.
I have no idea what you just said. I just think you would give different answers depending on what server you are playing. For example, I selected PVP content as one, but that would make more sense to an EZ-PC player.
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Quit being obtuse, these questions apply to the whole project.
I have no idea what you just said. I just think you would give different answers depending on what server you are playing. For example, I selected PVP content as one, but that would make more sense to an EZ-PC player.
Are you suggesting that EZ-PC players aren't real PlaneShift players?
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See? You are the only one who didn't understand what I said. Hint: Stop now.
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Nice poll, it's interesting to compare the results with those on nickyee.com.
Is this for Fragnetics or EZ-PC?
Even if there are two servers with different rules concerning RP, it's still one game in terms of game-mechanics quest options etc. So you can just check the boxes for things you personally find the most important for your total experience as a player.
I don't see why people are jumping on you so much though.
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I don't see why people are jumping on you so much though.
I don't understand either, and this is pissing me off. More because I can't understand what the hell they're trying to say to me than they're attacking my person.
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But for the grace of Laanx there go we all.
Tis for both just a weird subjective impressionistic version of what people want
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oh,and I voted for storyline twice Xillix ;D
perhaps a description of "social tools" would be nice though,
do you mean : */me does such and such* or something else?
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Storylines is in the list twice - does that mean it is added together at the end? hehhe
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Storylines is in the list twice - does that mean it is added together at the end? hehhe
People could have voted for both entries though.:) So it should probably be averaged...
The number of people who think PlaneShift should be easier is more than twice the number of people who think PlaneShift should be harder. Interesting.
I also find it interesting that the two most popular entries have nothing to do with combat or leveling. One is Exploration. The other is "Ability to Impact the World".
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Wow, I exactly picked the top ten! Next time forget the poll and just ask me :). And if you ask me, snorks are missing.
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I picked:
Customization Options
Casual Content
PvP Content
Social Tools
Grouping
Alternative leveling options
Ability to impact the World
High level content
Greater difficulty
Exploration
Going into each briefly.
Customization Options- Everyone likes to have their own look. This will draw more players to the game and keep them here longer while they try to get the perfect look. Other things can be left or right handed, limps, height, weight, clothing, colors, etc.
Casual Content- Customization would be part of this. Just log in and mess with how your character looks for a bit. Many other things would be small games, easy crafts, fishing, farming, hunting for treasure, etc. Just stuff to do when you are bored of the rest of the game.
PvP Content- make combat more fun, and more players will come. Mechanics dealing with laws (legal and illegal commands) would be a plus.
Social Tools- Leave notes ingame, a public library, voice level tools (from whisper to yell or speech), improved buddy list (rather a buddy tree) for listing friends and enemies (or custom categories), emotes. This will draw more players to the game, as well as keep them.
Grouping- group tasks, group spells, dancing (also social tool), battles, etc.
Alternative leveling options- player to player leveling, book learning, straw dummies instead of rats. Make rat catching an actual job.
Ability to impact the World
High level content- Something important for those high level characters to do, that gives them a reason to get to high levels. A constant skirmish area would do well, with RTS rules.
Greater difficulty- this is worded wrong, but close. I would have stated it as more of a challenge. Making the run to the BD ten times longer would make it more difficult, but no more challenging, and much less fun. Making it half as long as it is, but having to avoid tons of nasties on the way would make it much more fun and challenging.
Exploration- Climbing, everyone love climbing. Real forests. And get rid of the freaking invisible walls.
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I'm curious, has anyone checked both greater difficulty and less difficulty?
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Exploration- Climbing, everyone love climbing. Real forests. And get rid of the freaking invisible walls.
May, 2005 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=16389.0)
October, 2005 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=19828.0)
July, 2006 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=24511.0)
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The performance drop that would go with removing invisible walls would not be a viable trade-off.
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The performance drop that would go with removing invisible walls would not be a viable trade-off.
Hmm.
I am certain that you could avoid almost all invisible walls in heightfield maps, by correctly using the heightfield features.
I know from posts Xordan made in the distant past, he's strongly opposed to invisible barriers... I don't understand LigH's post but it seems like there are solutions? Maybe the artists or coders should weigh in...
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I talk to the artists and coders every day,
Xordan was speaking of horizontal movement as in there being no invisible wall that blocked you from an area you could see, preferring to place natural barriers, this is not possible unless the map is built from the beginning to do exactly that. Vertical invisible walls, while not much different, is not what he meant.
When the players raised the initial hue and cry about not being able to climb I took it to the devs and spoke about how important the players seemed to find it. I was told at the time that cost/benefit did not work out in favor of preserving climbing. Our maps "exist" already so there is a loss of freedom of movement that is regrettable at this time.
Perhaps as more optimizations are found we can one day allow for climbing again and actually implement the skill while we're at it.
There are posts in the dev blog about some of our burgeoning tech options which may well provide forests in due time.
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Hmm... did you find the posts by Xordan that I was thinking of? They were from years ago. I'm not sure if you were even around at the time... he was talking about invisible walls hurting the "suspension of belief" because they feel artificial and intrusive. That can apply to walls of the z axis variety...
Maybe for climbing, only certain surfaces can be climbed up? That way, you won't have to worry about invisible walls. Instead of invisible walls, you'll have invisible ladders. In a way.
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I just spoke with him.
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Number 2: The code supports it. It's "simply" a matter of adding necessary art. (If there's an artist out there who feels compelled, do help!)
Ahem. >.>
*me points in his general direction*
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Number 2: The code supports it. It's "simply" a matter of adding necessary art. (If there's an artist out there who feels compelled, do help!)
Ahem. >.>
*me points in his general direction*
If you think you can help, you can apply here (http://laanx.fragnetics.com/nexus/newapplicant.php).
Good luck!
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Homik's being a dork, he already works for us.
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Homik's being a dork, he already works for us.
Or do I? :o
Dum dum dum!!
Ahem...'nough of that >.>
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Just voted for my top ten, and I wanted to put an extra emphasis on one particular one: the ability to influence the game world. I don't think this idea can be stressed enough.
Of course, players do already have some ways to influence the game world, such as crafting weapons that have their characters' names on them. However, as it stands now, a player could be very active in PS and gain a bit of renown among other players, but then leave for some real-life reason and never be heard of by newer players that come later. If we could change this a little bit by allowing players to make direct (i.e. without going through GMs), tangible, lasting impressions on the game world, we can definitely add a lot of unique flavour to PS and make it that much more of a draw to new players and an anchor to older ones.
These game world impressions could include making graffiti on a wall (which could be reported by players if offensive or OOC) that lasts for months or drawings in the dirt that last for days, having a public library of player-contributed literature and maps as mentioned before (also with player-reporting of offensive or OOC content), and maybe even smaller, incremental impressions like footpaths being worn into the terrain when enough players traverse a certain patch of map in a week. Basically, little things that make it easier for players to leave [and randomly stumble upon] signs that other characters inhabit the game world too.
Of course, there are no doubt many technical hurdles to overcome before any of these ideas could possibly be implemented, but I think any movement in this general direction would be a Good Thing.
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^^^+1
only recently I found out the "kada-El" of the tavern is/was a player.I've never heard of anything like this in any other game.Although,The OSP is facilatating this Impact of players.But more of this Please ;D
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As per having reached 100 people in the poll I'll make some comments. I'll refrain from making too much of this as it is merely a snapshot and only polls forum goers. Also a thank you to the participants.
Exploration - 70 (7.7%)
Honestly I am surprised that this got to as high as it did. I hope some folks will elaborate on what they mean by this. We naturally will be adding more areas to explore as we build them. I would think you'd like more cave or "dungeon" content. We have made some recent changes also which will make exploration more rewarding.
Ability to Impact the World - 65 (7.1%)
This one I did anticipate, people are constantly asking about this on the forums. I would hope that efforts we've made to allow for this so far are noticed and appreciated. We do have some plans to allow for user generated content which will also help to accomplish this. Unfortunately it is a matter that requires coding and as you know stability and bugs are taking precedence. We try our best to align our priorities with player desires but as I've stated before, volunteers can only be passionate about what they are passionate about.
Alternative Leveling Options (Non-combat leveling) - 63 (6.9%)
This is also anticipated and we're making a lot of effort right now to make crafting, mining, and other activities grant more experience. Player to player training is something we'll probably allow for in a subsequent release, it is however a complicated issue as it's hard to balance player to player training via mechanics in a way that doesn't devolve into people power leveling each other or even themselves through alts. If the changes made for crafting still need tweaking I am sure you will let us know.
Events - 59 (6.5%)
I was surprised to find this one so high, not because I don't like events, I love them, it's just that given the amount of complaints that events elicit one might think events are a lower priority for players. Contention with authorities is natural though, so I guess I should have seen this coming. We now have mechanisms within both the gm team and the settings team to throw events and cross-team cooperation on events is high. Prospects with role playing experience are permitted also to take part in events as characters within the stories and training is available to those prospects who are willing to learn to be better eventers.
Storylines - 58 (6.4%)
No surprise here. We've some stuff to put in game that yet and will work to deliver that content asap. It is much harder than one might think to deliver materials of this sort. With each plot line the problem of consistency and accuracy comes up, so each new plot line needs checked against what is already in game via quests, books, npc dialog and the website. We've had to shelve the delivery of some material of this nature due to the required rewrite of every quest in the game to fit the menu system's requirements. After the next release settings will work to deliver more content of this kind.
Variety - 57 (6.3%)
I have to apologize about the vagueness of this option. In general we all like variety and options. We will try to make more options for the interiors of guild houses, shields, weapons, clothes, cities, races, naturally over time. Variety is difficult because art for a 3d game simply isn't easy to make. The process (as the Amendier folks have come to know well) is very time consuming and involved.
Quests - 51 (5.6%)
HA! very surprised to find this in this position. I'd have thought it ranked very low given the combination of error reports and complaints that quests are borking rp. I am pleased to find that many of those polled see quests as something they'd like to see more of. The good news on this front is that we have a large backlog of quests to put in game, so you will see more quests with much greater variety to how you get them and what they ask you to do. Changes made recently by Venge, Kemedes, and weltall have given us much more powerful and flexible quest capabilities. We'll roll out as much of this as possible when we're out from under the yoke of the complete quest rewrite.
User Created Content Options - 51 (5.6%)
I really would have thought this would be the number one thing, it ties into variety and ability to alter the world, so .... We do do have various plans for how to make this possible but this one is really hard because it falls in the nexus of code/art/moderation and requiring all three, it is somewhat daunting.
Crafting - 50 (5.5%)
Crafting now has a dedicated mini-team working actively to fix what we have and deliver new crafting types. Crafting will certainly improve, feedback on what is needed is welcomed and our turn around on this should be much quicker than other areas of content for the foreseeable future.
Customization Options - 49 (5.4%)
A lot of things mentioned above will already address this. I am surprised it made it this low considering how alarmist posts about this have been. We do need to finish all the races pretty badly, but we'll try to give some more options asap.
Grouping (content for groups) - 47 (5.2%)
I really would have thought this was more important to folks. A constant complaint is that there is not enough social content and that too much is solo. I guess the loudest don't always have their finger on the pulse of the community as much as they think? We have planned to deliver more content that requires people to work together and we'll ship that out in the next 2-4 releases.
Social Tools - 45 (4.9%)
I am figuring that folks weren't clear on what was meant by this. I took it to mean more ways to interact with people, different options for chat, poster boards, and this sort of thing. We have some things planned but it isn't the highest priority atm.
Random Content (Random Loots etc) - 39 (4.3%)
No surprise here. It's important, but not super important. At some point we will want to rewrite the current loot system as several in settings are unhappy with the names and quality of items spawned today with the system in place. Apparently this also makes several things more difficult than they might otherwise be for the engine team.
Combat Changes - 35 (3.8%)
Given the state of combat in the game I'd have thought this ranked higher also. I know that the tendency among those who post here is more toward the social aspect of the game (generally speaking). I can't think of a single dev who's content with the current state of combat. We'll get to it.
Fluff (humor etc) - 32 (3.5%)
I'd have guessed this would be low on the requests. We enjoy writing fluff anyway so you'll see more of it over time.
Casual Content (stuff for people who don't play often or for an extended period at one sitting) - 27 (3%)
Personally I would like to see more casual content in game but we'll prioritize it in proportion to the numbers of casual players triangulated via looking at usage statistics we have internally. I'd think more mini-games would be a cool addition in this category.
High Level content - 26 (2.9%)
I was a bit surprised this scored so low. We have a good number of rpers who've long since maxed their characters. Anyhow, we'll get to it at some point. Sometime soon we're gonna have to work on balancing out the stats of the mobs more.
snorks - 24 (2.6%)
This category started as a double entry of "story lines" that's my bad. I changed it to snorks. If you can get us the rights for snorks, I'll find a way to include them.
Solo Content - 20 (2.2%)
Not surprised on this one. Some of our solo content creation is inevitable and speaks somehow to realism. Overall we agree
PVP Content - 18 (2%)
Not too surprising, the legacy players have always experienced a game where pvp has not been a focus. Combat wasn't listed very high either by those polled, so we'll intake that information and try to give attention to those things above.
Less Difficulty - 13 (1.4%) Greater difficulty - 13 (1.4%) Ah, the dev dilemma subjectivity! I will interpret this as you want the game to be more difficult, but you want your challenges to be more fun and rewarding. It's clear however that people don't feel strongly about either. Am I to extrapolate that the game is about as hard as people would like it to be?
In summation, I'll say that this snapshot of the players' desires is interesting and may be somewhat useful. There's nothing particularly scientific about this, so we'll take it as about as pertinent as going to a fortune teller who's got a good reputation. Thanks again for the input.
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The game needs to be easier at lower levels and more rewarding at higher levels. I think that's what people meant when they voted the way they did.
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Less Difficulty - 13 (1.4%) Greater difficulty - 13 (1.4%) Ah, the dev dilemma subjectivity! I will interpret this as you want the game to be more difficult, but you want your challenges to be more fun and rewarding.
Xillix, I'd say your comments are pretty spot-on for the most part, especially this last bit.
And don't worry, the dev team's efforts to enrich the gameplay experience are appreciated. Don't feel discouraged by the vocal critics, since there are many of us who're enjoying the game quietly! :D
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The devs sincerely appreciate the vote of confidence as well as critique that isn't biting, insinuative, or repetitive. Thank you pseudoprometheus.
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The %s are a bit misleading in a poll like this, so I would like to put it a different way.
Of 100 people that voted (numbers rounded):
7 out or 10 (70%) want more Exploration.
Almost 2 out of 3 (65%) want the Ability to Impact the World.
3+ out of 5 (63%) want Alternative Leveling Options (Non-combat leveling). I would personally like to see combat dummies rather than live targets.
Almost 3 out of 5 (59%) want Events.
Almost 3 out of 5 (58%) want Storylines
Almost 6 out of 10 (57%) want Variety
5+ out of 10 (51%) want Quests
5+ out of 10 (51%) want User Created Content Options
1 out of 2 (50%) want Crafting
All of the above consist of Half or more votes from every voter.
Almost 1/2 (49%) want Customization Options
Almost 1/2 (47%) want Grouping (content for groups)
Almost 1/2 (45%) want Social Tools
Over 1 out of 3 (39%) want Random Content (Random Loots etc). I did not vote for this because of the random loot mentioned prominently. I think all loot (from beasts, anyways) should be set (all beasts having the same exact potential loot), but what you can loot and the quality of that loot would be set by your character skills (such as combat- can't loot a good skin if you beat the beast to death with a rusty sword, and skinning/dressing skills.)
About 1/3 (35%) want Combat Changes.
Almost 1/3 (32%) want Fluff (humor etc)
More than 1 out of 5 (27%) want Casual Content (stuff for people who don't play often or for an extended period at one sitting) - 27 (3%)
More than 1 out of 5 (26%) want High Level content
More than 1 out of 5 (24%) snorks
1/5th (20%) want Solo Content
Less than 1 out of 5 (18%) want PVP Content
A little over 1 out of 10 want Less Difficulty or Greater difficulty (13% each). This got a low score by what I think people define 'difficult' by. As said, long and boring tasks make the game more difficult to play, but not challenging. I, personally, would like the game to be less difficult, yet more challenging.
Given those numbers, only the last few scored extremely low. Just for fun, I would like to see a new poll with the top ten from this poll as choices, and only allow 5 votes to see how the numbers change.
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How is a percentage more misleading that a fraction of the same relative value with a different denominator?
Rerunning the poll with a smaller selection capacity might be interesting. I suspect it might not produce significantly different results.
I do not agree with your assessment of loot, particularly from beasts. You won't get an impressive rack of antlers off a yearling moose nor, maybe, a good pelt from the loser of last years rutting season. I do agree that random loot ought to be specific to the creature looted. You might loot a fine arrow from said moose if it escaped another hunter after being hit but you will not loot a sword; not that that currently happens. As for the humanoid foes you really ought not loot a weapon more effective than the one he is using although in some circumstances it might be possible. Certainly in the arena they are unlikely to be carrying a weapon they do not know how to use and will be using their best weapon in a life and death struggle. Given that it would be nice to see looted weapons to be damaged in a manner reflective of the battle.
The quests will get a lot easier when they become multiple choice rather than fill in the blanks but there is still some disconnect between distances travelled to completion and size of the reward. I think that once the new quest system is in place rewards can be somewhat rationalized because they will be less onerous. Also the non-material rewards could be modified by the faction rating or other considerations. Someone with a high faction rating is likely to get less of a faction reward for doing a relatively insignificant job than one with a low faction value and certainly lose more for screwing it up than someone not particularly trusted. Also for repeatable quests the experience rewards could be reduced for each repetition. The first time you do a job you learn more than the 100th time unless something significantly different happens. Also if such a quest generates a particularly uncommon or valuable item it might only be awarded the first time or have a reduced chance of being awarded the 100th. Trasok must get tired of giving you the axe making book.
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I guess what UTM tried to say is that you have to multiply the percentages by 10 since we all had 10 votes.
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I didn't use all 10 of my votes when I did the poll.
I think the results are useful as they are, but I also like utm's idea of having a second round.
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I only used 9 votes
I don't like votes where you have to chose around the half of the options given. Then you often end up chosing stuff that is filler in your eyes but it gets the same significance as your number one. If you do the tops ten then giving people 3 votes would be much better to give a good view of what people think is important.
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Are the poll options still editable (to fix the "Alternative Leveling O>p<tions" typo)?
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I voted mostly for options related to variety/diversity and possibilities to gain some impact and input to the game. Everyone can play a game. But an MMORPG is one of the few chances to become part of the game. And a community developed MMORPG even gives you a chance to create the game itself. This is the unique attribute of PlaneShift.
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On the invisible walls subject (Didn't read page 2 so sorry if this is just a repeat of someone else’s stuff): we're in a giant stalactite. I forget which level, but it seems to me that we'd really need to know just how big this level we are on is, and chart the entire map of this level, so we know how many areas are in it, and thus where the walls are and thus what we're making and where to end it. I don't know how detailed you need to make a giant wall, but I shouldn't think it's all that different to an invisible wall, just a few extra polygons, because I'm assuming that a decent amount of the detail is going to be expendable and you can have a few noticeable indents of something. Basically right now we seem to have two types of map though - the old school maps such as Hydlaa, which were around in the old days, where the terrain looks... for lack of a better term, not much like terrain. I’m going to take an educated guess and suggest that they aren't as efficient as they could be. Then there are the 'wilderness' maps, which do look like terrain. If we can find a way to import the city models from those maps, and place them on a terrain like those of the wilderness maps (because I assume they are more efficient), then there is surely leeway for performance issue with the invisible walls on things like the road just outside the city. From there you can introduce foliage and object generators, which will make up your standard forests and such. I'm not sure how efficient crystal space is for this type of thing, and suppose that it's mainly down to that in the end.
Pvp and the ability to affect the world are close subjects to me after spending most of my time in shadowbane, but having to go away from it, as it's shutting down, I came back to see how the project was doing. These were two large driving forces in shadowbane. And I suppose to that end that combat also gets mention here. PVP needs to have a purpose in the world, I really don't think that in a place like Planeshift that PVP should be 'flip a switch and pvp is go'. I suggest:
Bounty hunting - a board or some such in where players go to post bounties and where bounty hunters go to accept them. A player must enter the name of a chosen character, submit a certain amount of money which is stored, submit a timeframe up to (however long the max length is), submit their last sighting of that player, or their ideas as where they might be hiding and of course a reason why and they are notified when someone accept the bounty. More than one person may accept the bounty and bounty hunters after the same bounty are all on automatic PVP to each other (bounty hunters don't like competition for their prize and will either stay and fight for it, or back down from it). When the bounty is killed, it goes back to normal and the successful hunter get the money deposited (so we don’t have any swindling).
Factions of some sort opposed to one another and have a great love of murdering their opponents. This could be guild v guild, religious ware, or some other type of faction. In a city the violence is reacted to by the guards (who also can have an ability to can recruit players who will act on the in-city violence and declare (for a set time limit) the entirety of that faction off limits to the city, anyone coming into that city is to be killed.
King of the hill style objectives. Some sites of importance dotted around the world that people want to control. Does need much explanation apart from a back-story and reason of course, but you want it, it’s there - go out and fight for it.
Combat – in general combat in this game is boring. Click, watch animations, repeat. I’d rather it’s was either directly controlled, or there were some sort of abilities for lack of a better word that you gained as you became better.
Other means of leveling – the leveling system needs an overhaul in general I think, but this would be, without a doubt, a welcome addition because not everyone wants to go and kill things. Planeshifts ‘level’ system is perfect for this because it doesn’t have an overall level, it’s just a lot of micro levels. So if you handled everything as you do combat – for each success you gain something, then it’d make doing everything that isn’t combat viable.
Events. Don’t actually mind if they’re scripted random events, or GM led (preferably a mix of the two), but we’re all supposed to be defending ourselves from evil attacking monsters that want to tear out our intestines, or for a lack of intestines, something else that’s hot, bloody and tastes like bacon, and hang them on their walls, necks and other appendages. I know it’s not in the scripting and whatnot, but there needs to be more evidence of scary monsters who want to kill the cities, because it involves the players in the world, it makes the story viable and it makes the monsters and the world more real.
I know that what I suggest is in the far, far future beyond the sight of modern people, and possibly may never come to fruition, even if they are accepted as decent ideas and some such, but these are my elaborations on my suggestions as they are.
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I would think you'd like more cave or "dungeon" content. We have made some recent changes also which will make exploration more rewarding.
What "dungeon" content means? like a actual dungeon with a boss at the end and stuff, or a place like a cave full of monsters for looting and pps?