PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xillix Queen of Fools on May 12, 2009, 07:42:30 pm
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How can pvp be roleplay? What effect does Pvp have on roleplay? How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively? What part should pvp play in roleplay?
Discuss.
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if pvp is just roleplayed it must be based, imho, on real skills in the character no fireball trowing characters with 0 in red way thanks :D
I'm perfectly ok with pvp based on game mechanics (although it should be improved in order to base less on ping, lag and timing).
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I agree with The Dev ^^
Even from an IC point of view the levels you've trained reflect the training the character has gone through
and so has earned their right to Pwn teh n00bz
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Pvp can enable totally new possibilities for RP, which is why I second open pvp. Beware, oh greedy merchant! You might be killed in your sleep ;). Pvp should play a major part in roleplay, as one must always be aware of possible consequences. You can't kill someone and then decline his challenges. I would like to see open pvp everywhere in PS 1.0. However, such a thing requires a fundamental change of the current system, further away from the "my stats are maxed, you noob can't even harm me" concept. I think that even a noob should have a chance to slay a powerful warrior. After all, the noob can have luck. Currently, this is impossible and pretty unrealistic. Look at RL, even I could kill Arnold Schwarzenegger :P. If combat was more risky and the gap between maxed and noob smaller, then people would think twice before randomly killing others and furthermore they would need to cooperate in order to be successful, which generates RP. A revolt against the Octarchy? Sure, everyone can take part!
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I think if open PvP were established there should still be game mechanics limits on dueling in the city as invariably some people would be dueling everywhere and causing a ruckus for RP. But outside of cities where there are no guards, sure. Players can have the same rights as the ulbers to just walk up to you and take off your head.
However, if open PvP were allowed there would have to be limits on how much you can level in a day as it would be unfair not to do so. People who can spend all day, many days of the week or some such thing, in game would have a huge unfair advantage over people who can only play for a few hours here and there. That in turn could cause people who play only a little to focus on leveling so they can bridge the gap.
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Simple answer: PvP and other forms of combat can be a part of roleplay because roleplay includes all actions your character would take given his or her situation.
Problems can happen when different cultures develop around PvP. Some players are drawn to PvP because they enjoy experiencing feelings of power over other players. Some players enjoy using PvP as a competitive test of OOC skill. Some players enjoy using PvP to harass players they have OOC differences with. Some players want to increase their own status (aka "being number one in the server"), and use(d) duel points or OOC reputation vis PvP successes as one way of gaining such status.
PvP is not inherently bad though.
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Whether or not pvp can be integrated with rp depends on the player I think. I recently got involved in a short rp that started out as an rp, switched to a duel and back to an rp. We were interested in forming a story so killing wasn't really a consideration as it would have ended the story prematurely.
I think putting a pvp zone ( say a 50 meter wide strip ) between towns - and between mines and furnaces ( so that your forced to pass though it to get to the next town or furnace ) would make travel a little more challenging/dangerous but not impossible. As a result bandits would have an opportunity to harass, goods/heroes would be in demand etc.. I think this could be a good thing if done well/thoughtfully. Just my two tria...
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PvP is an interesting mechanic for roleplay because it puts restraints on how your character acts and what he can do - restraints help to shape and define the character. In pure consensual text-based RP, involved players might interpret the outcome of an action differently on both sides, or they might go for an outcome that is not fitting optimally from their point of view to avoid frustrating the other player, or they might just disengage from the RP altogether if it doesn't come to a conclusion they will accept. PvP is a neutral arbiter that cannot really be misinterpreted, and helps to shape a common "reality" for all involved parties.
As a relatively new player, I find the etiquette around PvP a bit confusing or intimidating. I've been asked before to a battle, and declined because that's what my character would have done in that situation, but it felt less than satisfying than just being forced to fight in that instant (and there was still the nagging thought that not dying was more convenient for me as a player in that situation).
I would like to see more PvP possibilities (and less possibilities to avoid it), with perhaps different ways to "back out" of PvP in certain areas - such as surrendering to being looted of one non-quest item instead of dying (and gaining immunity from such PvP challenge for some time in turn), or perhaps the attacker himself being unable to avoid confrontations even in non-PvP areas for some time if initiating PvP.
It's also easy to imagine how unhindered PvP can motivate some players to play for PvP-centric dominance in some areas at great cost to new players. Perhaps new characters could group together and get an NPC guard escort to help them move along in the early stages to combat this (two travellers per guard minimum, the total level average may not exceed a certain amount).
It is clear that one's PvP behaviour (if not based on consent/challenge) must have consequences after the event. For instance, walking along your victims on market day in Hydlaa in plain sight is suspending belief and should be seen as bad RP (unless the killer was cloaked etc). It should be possible to track killings that weren't challenged (and for the victim to choose to forget them if he thinks the killer was cloaked), and if a certain number of recent victims are present, remove the PvP challenge protecting from the killer (and let the guards have some aggro, in extreme cases). After all, a single accusation might not count for much, but a number of victims with matching accusations will be very different.
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The only problem I can see with PvP and role-play is that, you usually know who's gonna win. But sometimes, that's ok. Sometimes, the other RPer and I have an idea of who's supposed to "win," and the fun is what happens before that. So, if the other person is supposed to "win" and he is much stronger than I, we could have PvP, and afterward, I would justify that fight by RPing my wounds. If the "weaker" player is supposed to win, have a RP fight. If you have no idea and want it to be exciting, have a RP fight with dice.
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Are we assuming just PvP or PvP with looting? PvP without serious consequences will lead to gankers.
Show me an open PvP game or shard, with or without looting, where RP is enforced.
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It doesn't exist. They enforce names on the rp shard of aoc that's it.
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How can pvp be roleplay?
1. All you need to do is talk or use /me commands before you engage in a fight, create a setting for the combat, and you're using PVP in a role playing context. Strangely enough, its current usage in this context is rather low because some folks simply do not RP, only use game mechanics. Using game mechanics is part of the game, yes, but it is not RP in itself. This kind of usage is perfectly okay on the Non-RP server, but not so okay on the RP server.
What effect does Pvp have on roleplay?
2. It can be a catalyst for RP but at the same time it can also be a deterrent. Why? I have absolutely no idea. I can think of a bazillion ways how PVP can stimulate and generate roleplay activities but cannot image why it is so rarely used this way. I blame mainstream games. This is how people were "educated" to play.
How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively?
3. RP on Laanx affects PVP mostly in a positive manner because it uses the game mechanics as part of the story, as a whole. I can't think of any negative impact at this time.
What part should pvp play in roleplay?
4. It should always be part of any roleplay activity where fighting/wars/violence is involved.
I for one support full PVP outside the cities, and maintain the current system (challenge) within city limits. Players with, say, less than 30 hrs in game would not be affected by full PVP outside cities, to help them get to know the game better before.
A ++ to what weltall said.
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As one who has throughtout his 4+ years in PS favoured RP'ed combat and avoided PvP, mainly because it is too dependent on the Players skill much more so than on the Characters skill levels, less so now but previously was all a matter of button mashing at the right time.
PvP should be an integral part of roleplay as normal as walking, running or sitting imho eventually we should have open PvP everywhere including in Hydlaa etc. and not to have it monitored by an OOC server rule but instead by the Guards and more natural IC means (yes I know this means we need more GM's or to at sometime recruit players to fulfil the roles).
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I know that the team is considering ways to balance open PVP on the system. I do agree with Mordraugion that open PVP will be be the best choice when it comes to "realism" in the world. But I do not think that open PVP should be enabled system wide until after all other subsystems are balanced and finished. I really do not think that the game will be helped by doing this anytime soon. If it is decided upon doing so, I would recommend open PVP only after certain levels in certains skills are achieved. Or after the completion of certain quests.
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The way I see it (and this is only my opinion, don't hate me) one of the only reasons to choose a "RP fight" over a /challenge is to give the weaker character an equal chance of winning. To me, I guess that makes the majority of fights that don't use mechanics OOC. However in the tavern or around the city, if you /challenge someone you get yelled at in all this [brackety garbage] that fighting in the city is OOC, and sometimes you even get reported for it (which I still don't understand). But for some reason, about every other time I walk into the tavern there are people running around saying /me stabs you and /me casts a magic kill-everyone spell. Nobody yells at these people at all. To me it's the same thing, and it's the negative view of PvP fighting that will be more of a problem than the PvP fighting itself.
Open PvP in the wilderness would be okay for me, but maybe we'd have to have safe areas around the loading zones, where all the traffic between cities has to funnel through. As for open PvP in cities, it would be most realistic, but since we don't have realistic city guards I can't see any way it would work. Also, I think before there is any more open PvP there are some PvP bugs that should be fixed, and maybe some potion issues as well.
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In my opinion, PvP should be used whenever a fight occurs, everything else which is not supported by game mechanics should be roleplayed.
Unfortunately this combination is difficult because of too powerful magic and missing mechanics. Almost noone combines it, because such a combination requires some OOC agreement between fighters. Otherwise someone ends up being killed after having typed no more than 10 characters.
See also my proposals for improvements here:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34228.0
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32392.msg372850
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However in the tavern or around the city, if you /challenge someone you get yelled at in all this [brackety garbage] that fighting in the city is OOC, and sometimes you even get reported for it (which I still don't understand). But for some reason, about every other time I walk into the tavern there are people running around saying /me stabs you and /me casts a magic kill-everyone spell. Nobody yells at these people at all. To me it's the same thing, and it's the negative view of PvP fighting that will be more of a problem than the PvP fighting itself.
It is wrong, it RP or PvP you aren't supposed to be fighting in the system. And the people that do that generally feel justified in RPing that way because as they see it they are RPing at least. I've tried to tell people about not fighting in the tavern and I get yelled at for that. Often, those that do it just insist on causing a ruckus in the tavern.
But Verden is right, Open PvP now can be a risky venture... :(
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A PvP system needs to be balanced by a System of Law before it can be used fully for RP purposes. People who then commit illegal PvP actions and get caught are SoL. ;D
As per the questions, PvP can be RP in the current system (no changes to the code) if...
... it is a fight between gladiators for a money (or other) prize.
... it is a criminal attacking a victim OUT of the public eye. Since you can not loot another player forceably, this could only be to demand money (if agreed on before hand) or because the criminal is a psychotic killer (if the victim is killed) or a thug if just beating someone up for whatever reason. However, this option is only viable if the criminal is willing to Roleplay out the consequences if caught, which are generally not much fun as per the current game mechanics.
... it is used to RP out training between students and teachers. RP only, as it really does nothing in the current system of only being able to train off NPCs.
... both sides are willing to RP the consequences.
Question two. There are many many other scenarios, but all of them require the players to carry through with the results. Stabbing someone in front of a guard leaves no 'mark' on your character. Those who are killed and rush back out of the DR have no ill effects after the curse wears off. PvP can be pretty much ignored by RP, which is why it is not used much. Sometimes PvP is used to resolve conflict, but that sometimes only lasts until the player gets back out of the DR. PvP as the system is now, in essence, has no power over roleplaying out of full PvP zones, and roleplaying has little power inside full PvP zones (if those inside the zone are non-RPers). In effect, the only way for PvP to have an effect on RP is if those controlling the PvP are, in fact, roleplayers.
Question three. First, the positives. Roleplayers often use PvP as a basis for creating storylines and resolving them, as do GMs. Without PvP, many of these stories and events would never happen, and without RP, the PvP would not happen in such a positive manner. In other games, the PvP is used to 'pwn' the other team and the rub it in. PS does have a better effect on PvP in that it is used to bring the community together to solve issues.
The negative. RPers who do not use mechanics in their 'PvP' often frown on, or make outright demeaning remarks on those who do. These 'textplayers' are often louder than others in proclaiming what is 'right and wrong' and have made a lot of people who enjoy both RP and PvP feel as if they have to hide the second part to avoid ridicule. In doing this, they have made PvP taboo, and as such, made bringing PvP into more prominent roleplays harder to do. This also makes it harder for people who do not know much about RP, but like to fight to get into the RP side of the game.
For the last, how should it be used? As anything, it should be used as a tool to promote, initiate, continue, or conclude a RP. It should play a part anywhere where conflict is called for (rather than textfighting). However, given the mechanics of today and a lack of a system of Law, it is hard to use it as such. Given no recourse for most PvP actions, a lot of people A: refuse to accept challenges into their roleplay. B: Refuse to roleplay the consequences of the PvP. Until both of those issues can be addressed, PvP will not be used to its full potential, and there will remain a gap between the 'two sides'.
By the way, I am a PvPer as well as a Roleplayer, just not in PS, as I don't like the mechanics of it (in other words, PvP is boring to me in PS, and gives no benefit to training). I also never 'RP' fight for the same reasons.
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People who then commit illegal PvP actions and get caught are SoL
Hah! Good one, UtM. Seriously though, I like how you mentioned giving weaker characters a chance by using RP dueling. It seems to me that one of the problems with mechanical PvP are that there are not "hidden" factors coming into play. The numbers are what they are right now. It would be nice if there were "fuzzy" variables that affected the combat variables in the course of a PvP situation, meaning that it would not necessarily be whomever had the greater numbers. The waxing and waning of the crystal affecting the strength of magic, would be one simple example. But that would be a known quantity. Or a system that compared the relative values of the skills of the two players involved, averaging these values before passing them on to the combat manager. Do I really know what I am saying? No. But there must be opportunities to balance these numbers within the system. I appear to have gone off topic, but the ability for a weaker character to best a stronger character must somehow be taken into account.
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The way I see it (and this is only my opinion, don't hate me) one of the only reasons to choose a "RP fight" over a /challenge is to give the weaker character an equal chance of winning. To me, I guess that makes the majority of fights that don't use mechanics OOC. However in the tavern or around the city, if you /challenge someone you get yelled at in all this [brackety garbage] that fighting in the city is OOC, and sometimes you even get reported for it (which I still don't understand). But for some reason, about every other time I walk into the tavern there are people running around saying /me stabs you and /me casts a magic kill-everyone spell. Nobody yells at these people at all. To me it's the same thing, and it's the negative view of PvP fighting that will be more of a problem than the PvP fighting itself.
Open PvP in the wilderness would be okay for me, but maybe we'd have to have safe areas around the loading zones, where all the traffic between cities has to funnel through. As for open PvP in cities, it would be most realistic, but since we don't have realistic city guards I can't see any way it would work. Also, I think before there is any more open PvP there are some PvP bugs that should be fixed, and maybe some potion issues as well.
Fighting in the tavern is bad. Very, very bad.
It's true that a lot of OOC things happen in the tavern now. When before, OOC in the tavern was seen as a deadly sin.
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Fighting in the tavern is bad. Very, very bad.
It's true that a lot of OOC things happen in the tavern now. When before, OOC in the tavern was seen as a deadly sin.
Oh I know, just saying people act like it's only bad if it's a fight using mechanics, when it's no different.
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If you are on Laanx use the report or petition features when you encounter this.
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if pvp is just roleplayed it must be based, imho, on real skills in the character no fireball trowing characters with 0 in red way thanks :D
I'm perfectly ok with pvp based on game mechanics (although it should be improved in order to base less on ping, lag and timing).
Hit the nail on the head for me.
Only problem I've been encountering is people who act aggressively to me, saying and doing things to purposefully annoy me, then declining any challenges (and I quickly get hit with "You cannot challenge again for <X seconds>").
Case Study:
Recently I was in the Crater, killing Ulbernauts and skinning them, and taking anything else of use. 2 Players married to each other (and not exactly good Rpers) came up to me. I had dueled and killed the male recently for spitting at a guildmate (thinking he was stronger than me despite all description/player warnings, he accepted the duel knowing I intended to kill him, especially after his "wuteva I'll kill you n00b" /tell). Now I do not have the fastest reaction times when an Ulbernaut respawns, one of the other Ulbernauts was in use by a nice player. The female proceeded to take the third and last Ulbernaut, then the male started killing the Ulbernaut near me, laughing and stating the fact he knew he was disrupting my fun. After a few heated words I clicked the Challenge button so I could get him out of my sight and get back to my fun. Failed. He just declined and continued to be a nuisance.
In the end I sat there for a good half an hour with my fingers poised over a shortcut key and only killing the Ulber on the rare occasion that I managed to hit it before whichever one of them was in front of me.
No, I don't support Open PvP (Asonoh-type characters are my reason for that), but what can be done to make situations like what I encountered less frequent? I resorted to /report, but that didn't get him out of my face, he actually laughed at me for using it.
I'm not criticising GM handling of the situation, I just think it is a point to factor in that the Challenge system can be abused the opposite way, by those who want to peeve you off declining challenges. Had I used /ignore, it wouldn't have stopped them from killing the Ulbie I was trying to harvest and annoying me that way.
My immediate thinking directs me towards imagining a system where when certain words are said towards you by another character the server notes it, after a certain amount, maybe the Challenge system between you becomes automatic... probably not a good idea, just something I'm tossing in there. I have never /ignored a player, and I never want to. To me such an action is completely OOC anyway, and they can still find ways to abuse/annoy you.
Finally, killing in the city is not at all OOC, it's just against the law. So if you're character is evil, or (like Peacer) considers him/herself above the law and some sort of PS hero, killing in the city is not at all OOC. Vannaka, from what I know about your IC behaviour, I am of the thinking it would be rather more OOC for you to not duel someone in the city just because its against the law.
When I see killing in Hydlaa, I take a look at the characters involved and decide whether it is IC or OOC before wasting time telling them off. For instance, when Ikon killed three or four people in the tavern, it was semi-IC, so I didn't go out of my way to get him kicked or banned, just said "Yo, GMs, this evil guy is killing in the tavern man, and people are all screaming for the guards..." on the IRC (not my exact words) :)
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I think we have to remember that these things aren't always clear cut. There's often OOC and IC elements to it. For instance, there used to be a guild that made a habit of ganging up on players who refused their duel challenges. They would organize themselves using the guild chat, find the player, then shout things liked "coward" at the player until he or she accepted a duel challenge. Of course this was all within city limits, and they never roleplayed any of the consequences that should come along with that. So how can you encourage people to be reasonable, while also allowing them to roleplay violent characters and thugs? How often will the GMs have to get involved with a heavy hand?
I once back-stabbed someone in the PvP zone in the arena. He sent me abusive tells, then he and two of his guild mates tracked me down. All three of them challenged me at the same time. I accepted their challenges and promptly died. More tells of an abusive nature followed. A lot of situations are going to be messy like that, where people feel they've been wronged, and OOC actions get mixed with IC ones.
I've been challenged by people after doing nothing more than walking into a room because they want to monopolize the spawns there. Is that IC or OOC? Different people think different things. Ironically, if I accept their challenge and kill them, they complain more often than not.
Once, I asked a character if she was the guild leader of a certain criminal guild. She denied it, then she sent a tell to her RL boyfriend who also played. He came online, went to the tavern where we all were, and challenged me to a duel. His swords were drawn, my weapons were not. I didn't accept the challenge right away. Instead, I asked him why he wanted to fight me, and I reminded him weapons were not allowed in the tavern. He demanded that I fight him. So I walk outside. Now I have my back to the tavern wall and he's a distance away from me. I draw my daggers, then I accept the challenge. He runs at me, then runs away. He runs at me again and he dies. I didn't move during the duel. He then sends me abusive tells from the death realm. The interesting thing is that he accused me of cheating, because I didn't accept the challenge while I was unarmed and in the tavern.
PvP can be a lot of fun too though. I once helped a guild defend itself from the shadows in a guild war. Their leader was in negotiations, but they were being singled out and picked off. So I asked to join their ranks, and I rallied them to the front of the Laanx Temple. We formed a circle and defeated the attackers. It was a battle with tactics and everyone did a good job of talking to one another without breaking character. The shadows fled from us after too many of their number fell and none of ours did. Their guild leader then got very angry at me because she wanted to resolve the solution politically, and not by use of arms. So even though the event was basically all combat, it served to develop our characters.
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@Akkaido @Zanzibar
Whenever you have problems with abusive players, always use the /report and /petition functions and come to #planeshift-gmtalk.
We can and are dealing with this.
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lol
ok, I'll start making petitions :lol:
My point is that situations will happen, and it won't always be clear who's in the right and who's in the wrong when it comes to RP protocol. It seems everyone is in the wrong some of the time.
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@Akkaido @Zanzibar
Whenever you have problems with abusive players, always use the /report and /petition functions and come to #planeshift-gmtalk.
We can and are dealing with this.
As I said, I used /report. However, such things are never dealt with instantly, and the character abusing me didn't stop just because he had been reported. In his opinion it would be ignored, and he kept up what he was doing, although he began typing in the following manner:
PlayerX says: your the only one I pick on cos u killed me loser haha loll{}
He had apparently been told by a GM that typing OOC like that was perfectly ok. What he didn't realise was that whilst IC insults are excusable if part of RP, OOC insulting is far less appropriate.
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@Akkaido @Zanzibar
Whenever you have problems with abusive players, always use the /report and /petition functions and come to #planeshift-gmtalk.
We can and are dealing with this.
As I said, I used /report. However, such things are never dealt with instantly, and the character abusing me didn't stop just because he had been reported. In his opinion it would be ignored, and he kept up what he was doing, although he began typing in the following manner:
PlayerX says: your the only one I pick on cos u killed me loser haha loll{}
He had apparently been told by a GM that typing OOC like that was perfectly ok. What he didn't realise was that whilst IC insults are excusable if part of RP, OOC insulting is far less appropriate.
Also, prevention is better than dealing with problems after they've already happened... that's kind of my whole point actually. :D Thinking about ways to prevent problems before they happen.
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The way I see it (and this is only my opinion, don't hate me) one of the only reasons to choose a "RP fight" over a /challenge is to give the weaker character an equal chance of winning. To me, I guess that makes the majority of fights that don't use mechanics OOC.
Drifting offtopic I know But I felt I had to reply, my only reason for refusing to Duel, prefering to "RP fight" is I got fed up with a maxed character being beaten everytime because the winning Player had spent a serious time practicing timings, button mashing etc. Once the Players influence is removed from deciding who wins PvP and it is purely down to Character stats and an element of luck then and only then will I be fine with using it.
One other thing if you do choose to RP fight then it is a simple matter to swap stats prior (assuming both players are honest), it will be a lot more fun for both you and those watching.
Lastly if you use /report always, always follow it with a petition explaining why you reported someone, or if immediate action is required join #planeshift-gmtalk on irc and poke the GM's, all /report does is log chat, it doesn't alert a GM, they can't see /report logs in game and often it is several hours before the webconsole is checked making it too late to do anything.
[Edit: Highlighted the word often which doesn't mean always making it too late]
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Lastly if you use /report always, always follow it with a petition explaining why you reported someone, or if immediate action is required join #planeshift-gmtalk on irc and poke the GM's, all /report does is log chat, it doesn't alert a GM, they can't see /report logs in game and often it is several hours before the webconsole is checked making it too late to do anything.
More accurately, it's too late to serve as a direct witness to the events, and it's too late to intervene in the events. But depending on the nature of the offenses (shouting OOC insults, various stalking behaviours), there can still be fallout based on logs alone. I once reported some individuals who were /shouting what they believed to be RL information about me. I reported it, and banns were handed out based on the log alone, even though the GM wasn't online at the time it was taking place.
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In some games they ask that you submit video capture of the situation. There are utilities available that will allow you to record this. Video capture + report logfile is about the best you can hope for in terms of evidence.
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In some games they ask that you submit video capture of the situation. There are utilities available that will allow you to record this. Video capture + report logfile is about the best you can hope for in terms of evidence.
Yeah, I did that once... it wasn't enough to help me. It needs to be recorded server-side to count. Or else the GMs don't know for sure that it isn't a fake.
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Anything can be faked. But faking a video capture down to encoded pixels is difficult, especially as a composite stream without noticeable obvious artifacts. If the capture comes in minutes after the offense, it is unlikely that it was faked. The codec that is applied to the video stream allows for using the stream for forensic purposes in a verifiable manner.
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i doubt the gm have the knowledge and the tools to do such things, at least most :)
and even if they do would they really want to do such a time taking analysis for such a problem?
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There is no effective way to prevent abusive players. You'll have to rely on reporting them.
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Some good dialog here it seems. Wait, what were the questions again?!
How can pvp be roleplay?
Isn't it always role play. Every action has a consequence, so if you attack new players and kill them for fun, than that is your character, no matter what you think your character really is. On the other side, if two players engage in PvP and they are staying more in raw character form, then they should take it slow if they want to get a great dramatic effect. Take a couple swings at each other, charge and then maybe stand some feet apart and spout back and forth for fun. The problem with PvP and role play is one is in real time and the other is in slow motion and interrupts the other. Getting the two closer in time frame would add some fun. I also think it would be great if we had 5 seconds to type something in before we officially die, instead of the "You Can't Do that Right Now" message. That way I could say, "Well fought... ack, I die...".
What effect does Pvp have on roleplay?
Sort of what I said above, if someone keeps killing people in PvP, it will eventually lead to a greater in game conflict, which could be seen as role playing. Eventually some "good" group would come along and try to save all the new players from being killed by the evil killers, and maybe even eventually put them in jail. But, it would be up to the players and GMs to make it seem more realistic.
How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively?
Hmmm, not sure about this one. Good RP effects PvP positively I suppose. But the RP that makes up mechanics that aren't even in the game (like casting fireballs or shooting a gun), is just a RP that could be done in the chat room. If one role player is making up mechanics and the other is trying to stick with Yliakum settings, then how is that fair or fun for anyone to try to keep up with. If the RP can be carried out in PvP, then seems more exciting to me and takes the game to a higher standard.
What part should pvp play in roleplay?
I always say actions speak louder than words, so PvP and the role play should go hand in hand. If I type I stab you with my dagger and you die, but I can't do that in PvP, then to me it just doesn't seem I am role playing my character correctly. Course this gets into power levelers and how it is tough to keep up with others and skills with a keyboard and mouse, etc, etc. but that gets into a bigger mess. Until the two can be played together, I don't see PS getting over a hurdle and increasing participation.
If I can't work a mouse and keyboard and someone else can, and those are the mechanics for a great fighter, then I'm thinking maybe I need to try another profession like crafting. Now is that fair or not, I don't know, maybe because it is a game it should be able to make everyone equal, but then that leaves a lot of extra programming and AI to work on. That kinda brings me to what I usually try to say, and that is freedom should be in the game. Being able to do other things besides be the greatest fighter, and be able to find some skill that is really useful, will make a broader base of players happier. And with freedom, if someone wants to kill another in front of a guard, then so be it, face the consequences, but there has to be consequences. Like UTM says, until those Laws are in game, it is tough to let it all reign free because order will need to be restored eventually as chaos will surely break out. Right now, I bet almost everyone should be in jail for something we've done, but until that tough, deep, deep programming is in game, all I can think of is let the community sort it out.
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Some good dialog here it seems. Wait, what were the questions again?!
How can pvp be roleplay?
Isn't it always role play. Every action has a consequence, so if you attack new players and kill them for fun, than that is your character, no matter what you think your character really is.
The consequence is that you go to jail for a very, very long time.
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How can pvp be roleplay?
As already said pvp can be roleplaying when two people have a fight and you want an objective conclusion. The reason I don't always prefer PVP fighting over RP fighting is that for one it is often unclear who is going to take action in a "fight" and with challenging someone you take away the chance to act in a fight away from the rest. It is also very much still about lag and such.
What effect does Pvp have on roleplay?
It depends on how it is used. It can help RP but it can also kill it. If I'm roleplaying and suddenly have to duel it does take me out of that world and makes me think of mechanics and not the roleplaying.
Open PVP as has been discussed is almost always a RP killer in my eyes. You have a lot more people who simply feel like killing someone compared to the people who have a RPreason for doing so. The example used here is rogues. As if rogues always kill everyone when raiding. Seeing killing someone doesn't even silence their testimony why would they bother most of the time?
The killer of RP is when people then act as if nothing happened when entering the city again. Five witnesses who returned from the DR but no actions at all from the guards?
How does planeshift RP on Laanx effect pvp positively and negatively?
With an RP-goggle pvp should be a tool. All mechanics should be a tool to be able to play your character. Is that positive or negative? That depends on what you want PVP to be. Most people roleplaying want it to be a tool I imagine so aslong as that is how it is used it's positive, but if you want pvp to be a fun stress release then RP influence would be negative.
What part should pvp play in roleplay?
As I said it should be used as a tool. I therefor don't feel open PVP is really a good way to use it becuase it causes people to go on killing rampages without really RPing the consequences or reasons. Just yesterdy in the arena I was challenged without even a single word being spoken. Now that is not RP in my eyes and so I have little confidence in open PVP.
*edit* typohunt ;)
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Why focus solely on combat?
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Why don't you see PvP as a sport in Yliakum... ? I think is the best way to RP PvP...
Few month ago I created a guild called " Hydlaa Duellist Federation"...
We made with "Paxamor Guild" the first duellist championship,
Hydlaa need Jousts like all medieval cities had...
I invite all guild, to join the Hydlaa Duellist Federation ... and Start to RP more our PVP...
we can elect the best dueller who will become lord...
something more than just some tournament from time to time... but a permanent sport [like football or other sport IRL ]
Bye and Sorry for my English... :whistling:
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Sounds cool, but do you have to leave your guild?
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Hmm, I'm trying to figure out when player vs. player is not combative, must be brain washed when seeing "vs." between two objects. Or maybe you are talking about pick pocketing, singing contests, dance offs, board games at Brado's, bake offs, etc.? What kind of other mechanics support player vs. player in PS?
That's a cool idea Mouli, teams of duelers would be fun, too. I wouldn't think you'd have to leave your guild, in fact, it would help your guild's standing and make more competition as some guilds have rivalries. Until they turn on the catch, pass, kick, tackle features in PS, combat seems to be the best we have so far, or maybe my imagination is just lame and tired.
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of course you don't have to leave your guild ... you just become representative of your guild in the federation
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Since the system was changed to allow for the coup de grace, there are uses for it beyond combat. Boxing competition or magical competition being the two I would think of. Of course, they are still "combat" in terms of the mechanics, but the scenarios themselves are not necessarily played as combat in terms of RP. Maybe that is what Xillix meant...
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I meant to broaden the discussion beyond combat options.
Anything where players are going to go vs other players is open to debate.
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Anything where players are going to go vs other players is open to debate.
Quite often combat in roleplay is character vs character (players playing with each other) while PvP is player vs player.
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Quite often combat in roleplay is character vs character (players playing with each other) while PvP is player vs player.
True, that is basicly what I ment when I said that PVP often takes me out of my RP.
Anything where players are going to go vs other players is open to debate.
hmm well combat is ofcourse the obvious first thing you look at becuase it is ingame ;)
hmmm other instances where you could go against eachother.
Well I think it could add realism when someone feels they should be able to do something like pickpocketing when the target disagrees. I would see it more of a test to see if someone is capable of doing something based on their skills so you are somewhat forced to play your actual stats and keep down god RP.
Still if you think about pickpocketing it would be kinda strange to get the same results when someone is looking at you compared to when someone is distracted. So how you could make tests like that realistic I wonder. As with open pvp I have to wonder if someone using it inapropriate isn't going to be more of an annoyance then the annoyance of two people disagreeing that it would fix.
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well,@XilliX:this is a medieval setting and back then,everyone had to deal with combat in their lives,that's why castles,kngihts,wars,swords. were invented to keep you alive.It sucks but back in those days it was very possible to get killed at anytime
Also,I think Mouli's idea should be looked into as we have an Arena I presume this was why it was built,Duelling was the football of yester-year so kingdoms,(Or guilds most likely in this situation) would send their warriors to show off their power.And the winner's would have been celebrity's (Whereas now Orgunwukh the octarch's champion is barely known in his status)
Perhaps Tournaments and maybe even a "league table" could be set up for inter-guild duelling?
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Carua, I have feeling that XilliX, of all people, knows the setting.
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Actually looking closely at the settings all citizens are REQUIRED to have some training in combat skills.
We can't manifest it very well right now due to the state of AI but Yliakum is supposed to be terribly life threatening, which is part of the reason why the Octarchy rules with an iron fist, and part of why the citizenry tolerate that.
Carua is one of the good monkeys.
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@Carua: Life was not threatening in the way you believe it was. Most medieval people died of famine, disease, plagues... not by the sword.
@XilliX: I look forward to this danger. I shall max all my skills in preparation :-X no, I won't. But I do look forward to seeing some more danger.
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Ok we were in need of Akido's Knowledge... we didnt know what medieval meant... Thank Menki was very usefull
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:oops: I was operating on 0 hours of sleep when I posted that. I'll shut up now.
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I don't tmean this in a flamy-Troll kind of way
@Akaiddo:True not only by the sword,But back then the Claymore was the Nuclear Weapon.Armour was only for decoration and Wars were a constant ,daily Ordeal.
There are refernces to Proffesional Mercenarys that spent their lives fighting wars for kings.It happened as XilliX said all are required to be trained in combat.The Stone labyrinths are a looming source of danger at all times and the creatures in the wilds
I say let's all Pwn like there's no tomorrow.But not while crafting eh O--)
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Trained in combat skills does not mean to having to beat living things to death. I'll wait for the straw dummies before I RP that law, thank you.
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@Mouli: Uhhh... huh?
@Carua: Wars weren't constant in medieval times. Perhaps in certain periods such as The Hundred Years War, but the majority of medieval peasants had no military training, and never saw war, and if war happened, it was usually somewhere else and only lasted a few years. But this is PS, where danger is everywhere, and as such all people must learn to fight.
Don't look to stereotypes for the truth. ;)
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@Moon: And you can't RP only using strawdummies right now? Rping no training is against setting unless perhaps you are playing a cripled person perhaps. Still it does bring up the question where people are expected to train.
I mean if every citizen needs to train shouldn't there be militia traininggrounds or something? I don't really see how the octarchs can really check if people actually do train.
Every neighboorhood their own militiaground and competition between the militia's champions atleast once a year ofcourse.
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Don't you folks read the in game books?
...
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Akkaido, everyone has to know how to fight by law. Read the books.
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hehe I do Xillix but I doubt I read them all and sure I am able to forget stuff aswell ;). so what exactly do you mean if I may ask.