PlaneShift
Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xanthan on November 19, 2009, 05:19:38 am
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I've generally avoided these discussions. I don't think of myself as either of these things, really (RP or PL). I do both to some extent, but if I had to pin it down I'd have to admit that I'm more PL than RP. I'm trying now to figure out why that is. If I can do that, maybe I can offer some useful feedback to make it easier for others.
You see, it's not that I'm not interested in RP. Far from it. In real life I'm heavily involved in theatre and many other arts. But I've felt disconnected from RP in this game, and I'm trying to figure out why. It's partly that I'm most comfortable shaping a character out of circumstance. Circumstance in this case has included lots of bugs that meant I couldn't be in populated areas much, and also the need to do lots of quests and grinding to become a mage. I feel too that settings are not fully developed or revealed yet, particularly where magic is concerned. The fact that magic doesn't do much now also makes developing a mage character difficult. All this has led to a loner/explorer character who doesn't converse much and avoids other people. So in a weird way not _RP_ing is RPing if you see what I mean.
Thinking about it now, I think part of it is that most of us as players know almost exactly the same things about the world as all the others . Perhaps I just want the settings to be a lot deeper, and the world a lot bigger. That will come with time...
There's more, I know, that is keeping me from getting more into RP. I just can't put my finger on what it is.
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You're actually just fine. :) Playing a loner is A-OK, my main (Kaerli) tends to be very uncomfortable in crowds too...
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...and also the need to do lots of quests and grinding to become a mage.
in my eyes there is no need, only wish and desire.. what you desire is ok, just be aware of it
The fact that magic doesn't do much now also makes developing a mage character difficult.
i disagree, magic is indeed very powerfull [coming from a mastermage]
All this has led to a loner/explorer character who doesn't converse much and avoids other people. So in a weird way not _RP_ing is RPing if you see what I mean.
I see where you're coming from... Thumbs up :thumbup:
With regards,
Perlan, Masters of Move
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*BloodedIrishman pulls out a wireless microphone and clears his throat*
*A saddening but soothing melody drifts from out of nowhere over the audience*
*BloodedIrishman opens his mouth and unsuprisingly, a sexy voice resounds*
"I'm lying alone with my head on the phone
Thinking of you till it hurts
I know you hurt too but what else can we do
Tormented and torn apart
I wish I could carry your smile and my heart
For times when my life feels so low
It would make me believe what tomorrow could bring
When today doesn't really know, doesn't really know
I 'm all out of love, I'm so lost without you
I know you were right believing for so long
I 'm all out of love, what am I without you
I can't be too late to say that I was so wrong
I want you to come back and carry me home
Away from this long lonely nights
I'm reaching for you, are you feeling it too
Does the feeling seem oh so right
And what would you say if I called on you now
And said that I can't hold on
There's no easy way, it gets harder each day
Please love me or I'll be gone, I'll be gone
Oh, what are you thinking of?
What are you thinking of?
Oh, what are you thinking of?
What are you thinking of?"
*BloodedIrishman wipes a tear from his eye and bows, leaving the stage*
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*BloodedIrishman weeps in the crowd and claps for bloodedIrishman*
Oh that was wonderful!!!
*Bloodedirishman wipes a tear from his eye and his eyes glisten with adoration for bloodedIrishman*
Serious response,
Xanthan, I agree, at some point for some players roleplaying is stymied because there is a lack of something in the game.
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*BloodedIrishman weeps in the crowd and claps for bloodedIrishman*
Oh that was wonderful!!!
*Bloodedirishman wipes a tear from his eye and his eyes glisten with adoration for bloodedIrishman*
Serious response,
Xanthan, I agree, at some point for some players roleplaying is stymied because there is a lack of something in the game.
is he clapping for himself? :P
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is he clapping for himself? :P
If you want something done properly - do it yourself! XD
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I'd have to agree Xan, after some very deep and complicated RP, all done by circumstance, not things pulled out of the air as it were, I've had to stop, because of certain things, I just can't find a way to RP much more myself.
I love the stories people have to tell, and acting them out, but, with things as they are in PS, you can only go so far.....
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things seem partly familiar with me here too... can't really point my finger on it but my char is also a loner for some reason... and that makes me lonely :'(
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things seem partly familiar with me here too... can't really point my finger on it but my char is also a loner for some reason... and that makes me lonely :'(
there is always us in irc :D
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things seem partly familiar with me here too... can't really point my finger on it but my char is also a loner for some reason... and that makes me lonely :'(
there is always us in irc :D
well....most of us try to not go insane, and or voyeur the rest of the populace...... ;D
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I've been unable to RP much in the first place.
Though, I've always thought it more I'm too shy. :-[ I am no good at starting things, people have to come to me first or I'll never work up the courage... that hardly ever happens though. X-/
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Don't wait for crops to just *naturally* sprout up around you on their own.
Plant a seed.
If needed plant a potted plant. G.O.Y.A.
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I always find RP... am I weird?
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I always find RP... am I weird?
I don't think so, the RP you have planted from the old days will always keep you going I think..........man, thems were the daize.
though, I have been wanting to ask, are you the original Lolitra, or, I had heard things of Lolitra retiring and giving up the account?
Either way, I'm glad its a legacy that hasn't died.
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I always find RP... am I weird?
In my case, one of my character's does not need to search much, just speaking with others can really grind some gears or melt some hearts. 8)
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I tried joining a guild thingy to help things along, but I don't know if they are active anymore... will have to look into it more, I guess.
I think once I actually do start roleplay with some people, it will be easier to roleplay with them the next time. And then I'll meet people that they know, and roleplay with them.. then get easier at it the next time we meet... until I get so used to roleplay that it doesn't matter anymore.
I just need to start. :oops:
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I actually joined people who stood roleplaying somewhere (and where rather welcoming to new people) and was mostly only listening; maybe throwing a sentence in between when it looked right, or just described what Im actually doing while listening. In time it got more and more...
Sen
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anyone is free to join any of my RP's.... just look out for either Lolitra, Ixala [known only as Mimmi] or Elexis in game...
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Yes, I think you were in that group I remember as the first one that I approached in order to learn roleplay :)
Sen
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Anyone is welcome to come out to the Stonehead Tavern if you are looking for some RP either as an experienced RP'er or someone trying to learn. One of the reasons we have the Stonehead.
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There doesn't happen anything in PS at the moment that's worth to be called RP. Sure, there are a few sparks of it, but that's all.
Roleplaying nowadays obviously means:
- Movin'n'Rockin'
- Turning PS in a cheap comedy show by playing a Kikiri and having players chase you with drawn weapons on the plaza. And a talking fish is always good for some RP too.
- Creating a lot of threads with logs about everytime your characters sneezes...That's already post-worthy RP. But I guess it's not about the RP and more about seeing ones name in the forums.
- Turning even a casual talk into a RP that ends with a fight in Kada El's or with someone dying. But sure, killing RPs are the only RPs worth doing.
- Just creating an alt and getting the wanted information with the alt if the main char can't get them him/herself...oh...and of course the main char will know this all too then.
- Having a guild party in Kada El's without saying a single word in main for some hours.
- Organizing RPs in tells. Something like "XXXX tells you: Want to do some RP with me" - " You tell XXXX: Sure, let me create an alt you can kill. Or do you maybe want to offer me an alt of you to torture?". I wish you all fun with the new chat channels. There you can have the "Looking for RP" chat channel and get rid of the need to do any casual RP...you can only ask where to go for some serious RP..meaning where you can find your next victim. No need to bother with looking ICly for victims..and it's far better this way anyway. If someone offers to be a victim I don't need to be afraid that my main char gets in serious troubles.
- Coming by, sitting down at the same table as some other players without asking or even greeting and then force everyone around to listen to your story.
- Having a tavern supported by the money of a vigesimi who pays for everything. And then tell others that it pays off far more to give drinks away for free...Sure the economy is PS is not working at all..so we all RP a bugged economy now. Oh wait, yes...we also play wipes, server downtimes and bugs now. Of course you get more money at the moment by giving miners drinks for free...I guess I'm just the only person who sees no sense in RPing a faulty economy. I guess it's better to teach new players for to do it properly and show them how to RP bugs and send them to the next mining fair. In the end that the most important skill any PS player needs.
Sorry, I can't and won't keep up with these standards for good RP.
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My hopes were you are merely exaggerating, Aiw, but for some reason I dont think so=x.
I recently read on the forums someone commenting "people gone are posting on the forums" - if this would have been aimed at me: lately I now and then had my attempts to RP, but what Aiw described quite fits what I experienced at last.
Turning even a casual talk into a RP
these standards for good RP
For me thats one of the major reasons why I dont RP anymore right now. And I dare to remark, that recruiting GMs by all means, quantity over quality, is the wrong way, but only supports this type of standard.
I am optimistical that with the new client to come, its new features and its obviously improved handling, people interested in RP, more than mass-gaming, will be attracted and make this game a more niche, special and outstanding one, like it once was.
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Ah folks I'd like to point out that Planeshift is a game and the reason most people play a game is to have fun. The nice part about Planeshift is that it is flexible enough to allow people who have vastly different idea of fun to play. Some people find fun in leveling so they can do that. Some people find fun in Serious RP and those people can also have fun in the game. I think the vast majority of other people have fun some place in the middle.
Personally I don't see much point in someone getting upset about how people set up their RP. I'd thing if you are a fan of RP you would want to encourage people to RP more often. If it encourages people to RP more by setting up some things in tells Hey I see no harm in that. Guess I am a lot more of the " To each their own" type of person than some of the others commenting on this thread are.
Oh and by the way even in today's economy you have places of business that will sell ( or even give away) a produce or service for for well below cost. It is called a loss leader. The idea is that you draw people in to buy the under priced good or service and hope you can make up for the losses by selling other items or services for a higher price. For the Stonehead the food and drinks ( and to date al of the food has been donated by players and not the Vigesimi ) are the loss leaders and in return we get donations of food and tiras and the workers often get tip. Seems like that is a properly working economic model to me.
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I suspect that a number of aiwendil's comments could have been directed at me. I'm guilty of a few of these crimes - including setting up rp events via ooc tells and putting my main character in jeopardy. I'm not an olbie by any means - just another noob trying to figure out how things work. If my inexperience in rp and initiating events has caused anyone grief then sorry.
As for using less then perfect means for role playing and iniating events I say its better to make an earnest attemp making some mistakes in the process than to do nothing at all.
Yes, I'm guilty of a good number of these things but ya know what ?
I'm having a hell of a lot of fun and
So are many of the other players who rp with me.
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•Movin'n'Rockin
The motto is amusing, but the people spewing it make up a very small amount of the community.
•Turning PS in a cheap comedy show by playing a Kikiri and having players chase you with drawn weapons on the plaza. And a talking fish is always good for some RP too.
I see nothing wrong with the roleplay's, it might seem childish to some who are used to far more serious roleplays; but they were intended to be lighthearted and fun and came out that way.
•Creating a lot of threads with logs about everytime your characters sneezes...That's already post-worthy RP. But I guess it's not about the RP and more about seeing ones name in the forums
The in game roleplay event posts have always varied, always. From significant in-depth storylines involving many characters and twists to something trivial; it's a player's showing of what they have done in game with others (ussualy) and how proud they are.
I'm exhausted right now, so I wont go through the rest of the bulletpoints. I'll end on two notes.
Firstly, the standards of roleplay have not degraded, it's your perspective and state of mind that has changed. Or it may have changed it's face, so it takes some accustoming to. For instance here is the example of star wars viewers. When my father was younger he saw star wars and it absolutely dazzled him, he was mesmerized by it. When it was remade years later and sequels made, he believed them not to be as good as the originals. That's a common criticism by the original audience of star wars. But no, it did not degrade or become inferior, it just changed face to the older perspective of the original audience.
Secondly, I'm well aware I'm known as some critic, it does not mean I think all that was once good or should be has gone to hell. I'm just...sassy.
As a solution, I quote my good friend Marathal. "Flex and flow: be flexible and go with the flow. Life is too short; get over it."
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- Creating a lot of threads with logs about everytime your characters sneezes...That's already post-worthy RP. But I guess it's not about the RP and more about seeing ones name in the forums.
have to agree, there's a lot of pointless logs spamming up the in-game rp forum right now. i've actually stopped reading roleplays because of this. only logs i bother to read are jacula's and rigwyn's. some players think convos are important... they're not. they're boring as hell and a waste to read. just get to the point and show us what happened. no one watches a movie or reads a book simply for dialogue.
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One factor for me is time. I`m busy in real life and don`t get more than an hour or two on PS each day. During those few hours I want to have fun. And I do that by organizing adventures. RPing everyday life can be fun and I like it once in a while, but my time is limited so I like to plan a bit of drama.
After my experiences as an Outlaw I`ve found that it isn`t easy finding victims for crime RPs. You`ll either be ignored or challenged before you`ve managed to say more than a couple of sentences (and I`m not much for duels). However, if I know a few players who`re usually up for being the victim (and sure, maybe next time I`ll let them win one over on me: no one wants to always be the loser) and are often on at the same time as me (and I`m usually on during the low-population times mind you) then why not shoot them a Tell? That or I waste what little time I do have in game being ignored by those who aren`t up for it.
Along the way we usually end up attracting some more players, be they new or otherwise.
I used to do a lot of tabletop RPGs and one thing I enjoyed (and it made things more fun for the players) was customizing the adventures for the player`s characters. Likewise in PS if I know what characters are likely to be available, I can tool my plot to their strengths and weaknesses.
A quick comment on the use of alts...
I have no issues with using alts for minor roles in RPs. If it advances the story...if you really need someone for a small and temporary role but there isn`t anyone suitable available...etc. So long as you keep in mind, as Aiwendil said, that the alt character is not the main character and what one knows the other will not.
I know the Red Crystal Den has (and possibly always will be) a source of stress for Aiwendil and Lhaa. I can only hope it also provides them some measure of fun and enjoyment...and a forum for them to teach others their way of RPing.
I`m not saying anyone`s way of RPing is right. Each to their own. I think that so long as you`re not causing too much stress for other players, then live and let live. If you feel that there aren`t enough people RPing the way you do, then instead of retreating/withdrawing, why not get out there and try to mould some other players to your way of doing things?
For what it`s worth, that`s my opinion on the matter.
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Breifly, IMO, The best way to RP is to get to the point where your ingame toon/avatar/person makes ingame freinds, without even asking for, or knowing, any RL information about their "owner".
Many RPs will be monologing, acting as actor, director and writer. I have seen quite a few go to IRC to explore their RP, and ends up being several, if not all, talking without listening to the others. Kind of funny, in a sad way.
Whether you are letting a kikiri chase you, or playing hide and seek in the Laanx Dungeon (good times) or just talking with your Yliakum freinds, as your avatar, not as you, I think it makes better RP. Note, I do not believe every RP needs to be epic. In fact, how many times can you save the realm?
Case in point, how many times has someone taken the time to help lolitria (sp?) with her clan symbol? Nice epic quest, but can not be played ingame RP, because just about everyone has done it. And if you rant about how she must have enough clan symbols to build a house, and all of a sudden people think you are NOT RPing it "right"
I find, the more they try to regulate RP, and the more epic people expect it to be, the harder it is to do it. When I was at the height of my RP, I would log in, chat with Bamko's freinds, and make swords and mine ore... and have a good time. Then I was told I do not "really" rp...
Really? Let me ask you this... how do you RP your real life, IRL? If you behaved the way you are expected to here, you would be carted off to a padded room. But ingame, unless you are a brain damged Emo sociopath, you just are not trying hard enough? Yeah... No thanks.
(note, If you enjoy that kind of RP, good for you. Or if you are willing to keep being the director of epic RPs, even better. But remember, Good RP CAN be just being a normal citizen.
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I must say I agree with Elady pretty much.
And Aiwendil, learn to ignore the noobs and idiots who don't take Laanx seriously... if what XilliX hints is right, they will soon be gone under stricter new rules on Laanx. As it is, I've noticed most of the testers on EZ for the 0.5.00 release are in fact known as good RPers on Laanx, I've seen Mordaan, Elady, Thim, and many others having a look at what there is coming up. Some of that may be because there's nothing to attract them to Laanx at the moment, some of it otherwise.
RP is still strong on Laanx however, my entire guild still RPs as best it can. We're not -perfect- but I do believe the majority of Kore Irka Clan is up to standard. We have a few bad eggs pop up from time to time as all guilds do, but we are working on that.
Rather than taking every thread about RP as a chance to complain and debate the same points over and over, let's actually make some threads about MAKING new RPs, or RP types that anyone can join, or RP types we're interested in finding or joining....
Solve the problem, don't just say the same two Tria in every thread :)
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You are all responsible for you own RP experiences. Please stop blaming others for not following your standards of RP.
Some people like epic RP, some like casual every day RP, some like both and some likes the quiet non talkative RP (PL).
There are so many ways of RP'ing, so many ideas of what is fun and what is not. Find your way of fun and promote it, but do not criticise others if they do not agree with you.
One thing i am tired of hearing is of how the good old days were so much better than today. Stop whining and do something about it! Every day there are lots and lots of new players. Most of them quit after a few hours (or even minutes) never to return, some of them stay. And i must say that the most important factor of how they understand RP, is how they are met by existing players. If they are greeted with RP (and some OOC help in the beginning) they will usually end up as RP'ers. But if they are met with someone only talking in brackets, fighting mobs and digging, they will end up as that. Stop whining and start teaching! Bring new people in to your RPs and show them what you think is good RP. Respect and tolerance is what we all need for good RP to flourish.
I am very happy that there are quite a few that have understood this. It is always a pleasure to watch a new player (freshly renamed by a GM in the tutorial) being taken care of by an "old" player and taught how to RP and how to advance your character. To see them grow in RP confidence and slowly learns how the settings work. It is equally sad seeing others being ignored because they are just "noobs".. They usally end up doing massive OOC in main, just to get some attention. And by that, the one you ignored before becomes very hard to ignore now (and this usually means a lot of work for GMs cleaning up the mess, explaining the rules again and again). Of course there are the occasional Troll, that comes just for the Trolling, but that is a different story.
I vote yes to casual everyday RP. I vote yes to large and epic RPs streching over months of time. I vote yes to a mix of both. I vote yes to serious RP. I vote yes to humoristic RP. As long as it follows the settings it is allowed.
Just a comment:
For me thats one of the major reasons why I dont RP anymore right now. And I dare to remark, that recruiting GMs by all means, quantity over quality, is the wrong way, but only supports this type of standard.
Do you have any idea at all of how new GMs are chosen/recruited and the process of evaluation?
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I think not.... As for RP.. well.. if you don't RP because you don't like what others enjoy - why aren't you starting the RP in a way you do enjoy it.
RP is fun no matter what, for me - at least I try to make it that way - and I love to be inclusive... so...
Stop whining.. and start RPing... you might be surprised...
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I suspect that a number of aiwendil's comments could have been directed at me. [...]
Me too, and I don't think I've even committed any of those crimes. Ironically, meeting ingame a character whose name has signed so many reprimands in this forum ends up as the most obnoxious OOC interference in my rp (whatever it's worth) experience. Ain't it funny?
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Pretty funny but don't worry, nobody will notice the difference. ;)
....Nameless quotes so that I don't get personal attacks....
Do you have any idea at all of how new GMs are chosen/recruited and the process of evaluation?
It's enough knowing who some of the GMs are to tell, too bad they can only keep it quiet for so long.
if what XilliX hints is right, they will soon be gone under stricter new rules on Laanx.
Correct me if I'm wrong, that was under the premise of a wipe and that's not the case. I long for those RP *cough* rules eagerly, though.
First they have to be crafted, then I will see what do I think of them in due time.
But for now... you just keep waiting. o/
Things like these (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34508.0) quickly get old and forgotten.
You are all responsible for you own RP experiences.
Not true, try to RP in Unreal Tournament and see if anybody follows in a way that suits you. This is what happens in Laanx many times, the so called RP server. ;)
So no, you aren't responsible for all your RP experiences, unless you're logging alts to RP to yourself.
Or maybe it's the twisted concept of RP I have, I always thought you need other people to interact with!
Gosh gosh, I've been so misled all this time. ;)
Stop whining.. and start RPing...
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Please stop blaming others for not following your standards of RP.
[...]
Rather than taking every thread about RP as a chance to complain and debate the same points over and over,
These are really amusing.
Looks like people forgets pretty quickly here (as quick as two weeks time), or maybe some didn't realize who are they telling this to.
Find your way of fun and promote it
This doesn't seem to work very well nowadays. I have to hope you aren't implying all the events the RCO has put up mean nothing in that regard. But apparently people will only facelift to enter the Den and then forget about it as soon as they come out... reminds me of what most do in GM events. ;)
After 3 years of learning then teaching new players it's pretty discouraging that the first to do /guildinvite wins and those new players end up in environments that will just make the teaching much harder if not impossible. But it's funny that you say this over and over to people who was doing this when 95% of the current PS playerbase was still trying to figure how to exit the DR, or how to install the game.
Sure, I could be more patient but I guess everybody has their own limits... blame me, I'm human. ;)
And some would think 3 years are already far too long to stand failure after failure, the more considering it looks like everything around me doesn't really get better but all the opposite (blah blah blah the good old times old rant yes kthxbye). Meanwhile the standards everybody talks about here have lowered so far that I forget what they were at some point, let alone new players... they will never get to know since nobody is left that will show them. Not even me. ;)
It's obvious new players need to learn and progress (I can't count the mistakes I made myself), the issue is into which direction do they progress. What they see and mime as a model generally isn't really what I'd call good roleplay, and I doubt even most of the settings team would, if they knew at all...
So to reply to the main thread's question... I don't RP play more because I don't stand your beloved new standard anymore.
some like the quiet non talkative RP (PL).
Please..... XD
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There doesn't happen anything in PS at the moment that's worth to be called RP. Sure, there are a few sparks of it, but that's all.
Roleplaying nowadays obviously means:
- Having a tavern supported by the money of a vigesimi who pays for everything. And then tell others that it pays off far more to give drinks away for free...Sure the economy is PS is not working at all..so we all RP a bugged economy now. Oh wait, yes...we also play wipes, server downtimes and bugs now. Of course you get more money at the moment by giving miners drinks for free...I guess I'm just the only person who sees no sense in RPing a faulty economy. I guess it's better to teach new players for to do it properly and show them how to RP bugs and send them to the next mining fair. In the end that the most important skill any PS player needs.
Sorry, I can't and won't keep up with these standards for good RP.
Hey... :'(
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Jessh, you are a miserable lot, cheer up! It is near christmas afterall ;)
Quite frankly RP is what you make it to be, if you find that some players RP in a way that you do not like or think is right, then either tolerate it or simply don't RP with them. Though if I am truthful, some of what people say is true, Tavern RP usually leading to fights ( with guards outside, two of them!) is quite stupid and is sadly very predictable. Perhaps a bit of a drunken punch up every once in a while, but swinging swords every weekend is embarrassing to say the least.
For me, RP is either quiet or very predictable at present, I find my self quite bored of it all. I loved it I really did, I just think I'm being a moody oldbie, simply because the group of players I RP with have gone, most of them. I really do encourage them to come back if they are reading this! None the less I shall be active, or at least try to be, maybe I'm not being enthusiastic enough ;)
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Pretty funny but don't worry, nobody will notice the difference. ;)
Do you mean you don't notice it? ;)
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Yep. Luckily, I assume.
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We do have more gms, and they are awesome and caring volunteers who are working for you for nothing, have some gratitude.
Take responsibility: REPORT ABUSE, REPORT THOSE UNWILLING TO LEARN RP, REPORT DISRUPTIVE or ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR.
Ok folks, I am going to give you a new reason to RP: Because you can't complain about it here anymore.