PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => Topic started by: Mehallie on May 10, 2003, 10:34:28 pm
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I\'ve searched through topics, but as they often are listed under obscure titles, I hope I haven\'t just dug up something already discussed:
Back in Another-Game-That-Is-Not-to-Be-Named, crafting was a nightmare. Click combines...buy stacks, click combines, hope the skill went up, click combines...good grief how utterly boring. It\'s no wonder that people just exploited the system and created macros to do the work for them. Die hard tradeskillers were TRULY die-hard to take on that sort of thing.
So...how about doing away with it altogether?
A system I have seen done somewhat in other games was that initially, crafters went to NPC teachers in-game, and experimented with trial and error to see if things could be created together. Then, they\'d communicate with one another in their schools and compare notes - most crafters are so interested in crafting that they don\'t tend to get too competitive, though of course they\'re trying to make money. Crafting is often more difficult than people take credit for, however, and so making friends in the same trade is worth doing.
However, there comes a point when someone stumbles on a recipe that is incredibly unique. This recipe, they may hoard - and after some practice, they master in it (this shouldn\'t mean doing the same combine several hundred times). Now, said master can become the teacher to apprentices, for a price.
The price doesn\'t necessarily have to be money. In a roleplaying environment, I think it is perfectly sensible for a master to send a prospective out for a specific task (probably even better to be able to do this rather than just charge straight off - this way you do away with uber_d00d\'s \"tech meh to do sumthin\" and get back to the game\'s roleplaying spirit). It\'s also a good way to discourage someone you really don\'t care to teach with a more valid reason than \"I just don\'t like you, go away.\"
The master-apprentice way of crafting would encourage more interaction in the game and hopefully less resorting to people sticking up \"cheats\" on websites - if you had a special recipe for something, your own trademark that no-one else had, would you honestly stick it up on a website for free? Doubtful.
This could even become rather interesting for melees. I would infinitely get more joy learning about a special skill from a crusty old fighter with the attitude of a flatulent badger than off an NPC with canned dialogue. Want to learn that \"special\" move? Seek out the old bloke who lives near the ancient ruins and fulfil his request for whatever suits him. Found a new artifact or item and you\'ve discovered how it works (weapon or spell)? Train others to use it for a certain fee.
I\'d like to see a bit more interaction in MMORPG\'s. Too often it becomes monetary business deals only with the only real friendships formed in a guild - the rest of the world as a whole is just seen as something to bash or buy from. Perhaps this would encourage a bit more communication - and deities know it would be infinitely more entertaining than clicking the \"combine\" button!
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First paragraph:
Agreed. I always try looking before I post, but I end up failing to find what I\'m looking for whenever I am trying to find a topic based on something.
Second paragraph:
Another-Game-That-Is-Not-to-Be-Named
Is it That Game or is it another game?
As for the maind idea, that is the main reason why I grew bored of That Game. I was also too lazy to download a macro, but then again, it was pointless to do so for a somewhat pointless game.
Fourth paragraph (third was just a question):
The idea of NPC teachers is interesting, but perhaps a teacher can only teach you a limited amount of things before the NPC can no longer teach you. Perhaps the NPC can teach you what works with what and what does not work with something else. What I mean by this is that they can teach you that if something is arranged in a particular way, it will never work like that, no matter what you do with it.
Fifth paragraph:
Depends on what is done with the new and fasicating object that is made. If the person who made it sells it in great amounts, then can\'t another person attempt to copy the design by taking apart the object and reassembling it? Unless that can be implemented as a new thing, or copyright is introduced into the game. The master-apprentice thing I like.
Rest of Master-apprentice idea:
Interesting, although I have to leave now. I will add more suggestions later.
Melee idea suggestions:
It depends if special combat moves are implemented into the game. And if the crusty old fighter is willing to teach you, and if the crusty old fighter is a player who will teach you for an insanely high price that will force people off their homework for a few years to achieve the goal. Sure, it may be more exciting, but you have to think of the thing called \'balance\' in all these RTS strategy games. What I mean is that people have an equal chance of learning the idea, not just a select few.
By the way, can you post in Seeking Fortune? It is kind of dead right now...
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Another-Game-That-Is-Not-to-Be-Named... I haven\'t seen that one before...
Anywho, I\'m fond of the idea about teaching your skills to other people, but think of those with two or more computers at home, work, or wherever they might play. One person gains one skill, and some other person gains another skill, and when they\'ve both mastered their skill, they take eachother as apprentices, and they gain easy skill... But still - It\'s a great idea. :)
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Well, unfortunately, nothing is foolproof. If someone wants to cheat, they\'re going to. There\'s nothing you can do about it. If people have two computers and they want to \"play with themselves\" (I don\'t care how dirty that sounds) then let them - at least they\'ll leave other folks alone.
As for charging extortionate prices for a skill - well I assure you they\'d only do it once. It takes about 15 minutes to ruin your reputation ingame - and more often than not once it\'s done, it\'s impossible to repair. If someone asks a ridiculous price, they\'re not going to get it. That just stands to reason.
The pricing issue is why I leaned toward having someone perform a quest before being taken on as an apprentice first, before charging - hence, they know that the initiate is serious, and the initiate can get an idea of the roleplayer\'s style before they start. Granted, there\'s unscrupulous players out there, but there isn\'t much anyone can do about that, really, other than keep an eye out and not work with them.
Crafting also shouldn\'t be easy, and achieving master shouldn\'t be something a powergamer can do. Taking an item apart after constructing it should be impossible - I\'ve actually never seen a game where anyone could just take apart a crafted item, so no worries there.
Competition for crafters is important - the economy is a bit of a game, and it requires people to really keep an eye on things if they want to be able to make a living. Charge too high, and you price yourself out of the market. Price too low, and you run the risk of someone buying your wares and then selling higher for a profit - this has happened in other games. I note some games offer the ability to add a \"trademark\" to crafted items (apprentices would probably operate under their master\'s mark until journeyman level). But it shouldn\'t be so competitive that people don\'t try to just stab each other in the back, but actually trade with each other and assist in the discovery of new \"apprentice level\" recipes - this would aid the majority of masters in teaching their students as well as help people actually achieve master status.
Anyway, my ideas on things.
I thought a \"review\" system may work well, but there\'s always going to be badmouthers who would abuse this. In the end, it just comes down to maturity and the common sense of both player and teacher.
edit: Will try to get into Seeking Fortune, but sort of rp-burnt at the moment, I\'ve got a lot of irons in the fire with other projects.
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This is the best idea I\'ve seen yet for the skills system. It sounds very innovative. Maybe occasionally a dev or something could throw in a race or some sort of quest that can only be done once, and it has a specific, one-of-a-kind recipe that would be very cool. That would make things interesting. You could even have a guild library with all the common recipes out for everyone to see, and the rarer ones in a vault that only high-ranking members have access to. It would give some good incentive to work towards gaining ranks in the guild, if you know what I mean...
Edit: Dis is da best video game I\'ve evew pwayed
-Homestarrunner
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Well, unfortunately, nothing is foolproof. If someone wants to cheat, they\'re going to. There\'s nothing you can do about it. If people have two computers and they want to \"play with themselves\" (I don\'t care how dirty that sounds) then let them - at least they\'ll leave other folks alone.
Other than the fact that some players get unfair advantages over the other, I agree. Of course, solving the problem might be difficult, and I don\'t have any bright ideas to do so. By the way, I believe Gronomaster meant two different people apprenticing the other player.
As for charging extortionate prices for a skill - well I assure you they\'d only do it once. It takes about 15 minutes to ruin your reputation ingame - and more often than not once it\'s done, it\'s impossible to repair. If someone asks a ridiculous price, they\'re not going to get it. That just stands to reason.
True. However, people forget about the greedy master after a nights worth of sleep, unless there is a pest list ingame. Even then, the person seeking apprenticeship may be telling the truth while others may not trust him/her. Without valid evidence.
The pricing issue is why I leaned toward having someone perform a quest before being taken on as an apprentice first, before charging - hence, they know that the initiate is serious, and the initiate can get an idea of the roleplayer\'s style before they start. Granted, there\'s unscrupulous players out there, but there isn\'t much anyone can do about that, really, other than keep an eye out and not work with them.
Interesting idea. Perhaps how the player does the quest and how quickly it\'s done can contribute to how the Master thinks of the hopeful apprentice.
Crafting also shouldn\'t be easy, and achieving master shouldn\'t be something a powergamer can do. Taking an item apart after constructing it should be impossible - I\'ve actually never seen a game where anyone could just take apart a crafted item, so no worries there.
First sentence is agreed upon. The rest of the sentence will be replied to in the next sentence. Planeshift, I believe, will be a game unlike others. Why not have the ability to take apart items, if you have no use for them. I mean, perhaps arrows can be reffitted with different shafts, feathers, and so on instead of being entirely replaced. I\'d rather upgrade than replace. That\'s just me, though.
Competition for crafters is important - the economy is a bit of a game, and it requires people to really keep an eye on things if they want to be able to make a living. Charge too high, and you price yourself out of the market. Price too low, and you run the risk of someone buying your wares and then selling higher for a profit - this has happened in other games. I note some games offer the ability to add a \"trademark\" to crafted items (apprentices would probably operate under their master\'s mark until journeyman level). But it shouldn\'t be so competitive that people don\'t try to just stab each other in the back, but actually trade with each other and assist in the discovery of new \"apprentice level\" recipes - this would aid the majority of masters in teaching their students as well as help people actually achieve master status.
Interesting idea! I have a sudden inspiration for this as well that will fit neatly into the idea of Merchant\'s Guilds. There can be guilds for crafting and raw resources, and guild leaders operate such guilds to create advantages for guild members. What I\'m trying to say is basically guilds for crafting or sections in guilds to do so.
I thought a \"review\" system may work well, but there\'s always going to be badmouthers who would abuse this. In the end, it just comes down to maturity and the common sense of both player and teacher.
The only problem I see with this is that badmouthers may abuse it entirely and the review system will go in shambles. Something like 100 bad reviews and 1 good one. Nobody is going to read through each one just to see which one is good. A solution would be to have each player promise that they will not abuse anything under threat of still being able to play, but losing every item. Torture, while extremely cruel, is worth than death, so if another person comes up with an idea, it should replace the one suggested by me.
edit: Will try to get into Seeking Fortune, but sort of rp-burnt at the moment, I\'ve got a lot of irons in the fire with other projects
Well, roleplaying is entertainment, and entertainment comes last. Good luck on your other projects, though.
By the way, what is this \'Another-Game-That-Is-Not-to-Be-Named,\' anyway?
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Mehallie, you have just describe something very close to our intent with all skills, especially tradeskills.
Busy-ness notwithstanding, have you thought about applying to be on the team? I like your perspective a lot.
- Venge
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That\'s good to hear, Venge, I am glad to see that this is somewhat being implemented. I\'ve seen it proposed in other games and so far seems one of the best - not entirely foolproof as nothing is, but it\'s bloody close.
As for the team - actually, yes I applied to do some help with writing quests and whatnot, but that was ages ago, and I never heard back. I didn\'t really want to be a pest, so I left it at that and figured I\'d be here if anyone needed me for anything.
So I\'ll just keep bringing ideas like this and hope :)
Wormtail: EQ (makes the warding sign against evil)
Edit: *looks back over post and blinks* Bottomure? Bottomist? What the hell - ? Is there a bug or are words being replaced for some reason? That\'s not what I typed...
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Edit: *looks back over post and blinks* Bottomure? Bottomist? What the hell - ? Is there a bug or are words being replaced for some reason? That\'s not what I typed...
yup, the forums are censored a.s.s turns into bottom ...so a.s.s.emble turns into bottomemble etc.
i saw this when i typed that and some option would be a b.i.t.c.h. to implement and the forum printed it would be a peanut to implement ...ok, i don\'t like censorship, but i can live with it no problem ...but the meaning of \"bottomembling of peanuty code\"[/i] is something that\'s very different from what the poster wanted to point out ...please change the peanut to something else ...and the bottom shouldn\'t be that harsh ...i mean a.s.s.embling is a word that\'d be pretty useful in these forums :(