PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: jorrit on March 13, 2010, 07:03:47 am

Title: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 13, 2010, 07:03:47 am
Hi all,

Recently I worked on rebalancing magic to make it a bit more useful. Some spells were completely too weak and there was also a problem with cast time getting down to zero (and below if that was possible). So basically on EZPC we implemented the first attempt to bring some magic into magic again  :)

Currently this is only on EZPC as we need to test this first. This is where you come in. If you are interested and you have (or want to create) an EZPC account then help us test if these changes seem fair to you and how you do against all types of creatures. Report problems on this thread.

Edit: forgot to mention that in the future there might still be other changes. Like increasing the chance to miss if the target is far away from you and other things like that to balance the fact that magic users can do damage from a long distance away.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: bilbous on March 13, 2010, 07:39:55 am
Sounds really good, I'll have to try to get on there tomorrow.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Bonifarzia on March 13, 2010, 09:59:31 am
Edit: forgot to mention that in the future there might still be other changes. Like increasing the chance to miss if the target is far away from you and other things like that to balance the fact that magic users can do damage from a long distance away.

Very nice, I am looking forward to seeing those (and future) changes and hope you will have reasonable feedback with the testing period on EZPC (although there is probably a lack of sufficiently trained characters). Also, I hope there will be more focus on using magic for other things than inflicting damage over range (diversity and usefulness of buffs, item identification, crafting, manipulation of mob behavior, synergies with other skills ...).
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Rigwyn on March 13, 2010, 11:59:42 am
This is terrific news. Thank you!
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Vilthis Trayus on March 13, 2010, 06:05:37 pm
Thanks for the work dev team! I'll look forward to trying it after the patching.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Earowo on March 13, 2010, 06:43:52 pm
i have an act on ezpc its just another earowo, but i never go on it, so the only glyph i have is the buyable one and energy...
XD
but i can try and help out i guess
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: bilbous on March 13, 2010, 06:53:10 pm
low level spells seem to have more range now, hard to say what kind of damage is being done as it is not specified in status. Hard to report the effectiveness without discussing relative strength of mobs which may be seen as spoiler material.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 13, 2010, 07:19:30 pm
low level spells seem to have more range now, hard to say what kind of damage is being done as it is not specified in status. Hard to report the effectiveness without discussing relative strength of mobs which may be seen as spoiler material.

Yes, the range is directly related to the power so it is possible that there is a slight increase.

Greetings,
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: bilbous on March 13, 2010, 07:34:14 pm
I imagine that power is also somewhat affected by skill level in the particular way, my ways are all pretty low, 10-27 range.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Bonifarzia on March 14, 2010, 11:48:10 pm

I am not sure  whether the changes to be discussed here are the same as those observed on Laanx today.
In short, I like most of the new rules much, such as the elimination of very short casting times. Still, the problem I already stated about the NPC refactor (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36866.msg420912#msg420912), mobs being much simpler to defeat with offensive spells rather than in close combat, persists and got significantly worse with the even stronger attack spells. I notice some buffs have become stronger, especially with raised spell power, but still I am missing strong synergies between combat and magic. Maybe i just did not look for that hard enough.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Earowo on March 15, 2010, 05:49:38 am
im not the brightest person ever, so i dont know weather she said killing npcs' quik with magic is a good thing or bad thing, but it should be a good thing, for higher levels at least..
you shouldnt have to be able to rely on weapons...
and you shouldnt have to sit there and cast at a trepor until half your mana is gone...
so more power makes things more balanced yay :D
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 15, 2010, 10:14:14 am
The changes are now indeed on laanx. However three spells have been reduced in power a bit since I made them a bit too strong. This change will take effect after the next reboot of the server. These spells that I reduced again (but still higher then before) are: Taste of Death, Flying Stones, and Psychic Blow.

Greetings,
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Rigwyn on March 15, 2010, 11:07:35 am
Not sure if this is just perception or not, but I played with this on laanx a little.

I tried out taste of death on Laanx - it does seem much more powerful.
The slider does not seem to make any observable difference. ( this lack of observable difference might be a testing error on my part - will retry )
I can cast weakness again ( thank gods )
I tested necrotouch but am not sure about it. it seemed to do very little damage .. then again I suspect I may have had dakkru's curst at the moment so I need to retest this.

The change is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 15, 2010, 11:16:26 am
Not sure if this is just perception or not, but I played with this on laanx a little.

I tried out taste of death on Laanx - it does seem much more powerful.
The slider does not seem to make any observable difference. ( this lack of observable difference might be a testing error on my part - will retry )
I can cast weakness again ( thank gods )
I tested necrotouch but am not sure about it. it seemed to do very little damage .. then again I suspect I may have had dakkru's curst at the moment so I need to retest this.

The change is greatly appreciated.


You suspect you have the dakkru's curse? You can easily see that in the active buffs/debuffs window.

Anyway, Taste of Death will be made somewhat less powerful next reboot.

The slider most certainly does make a difference but it is subtle and you get more benefit if you are higher level.

Greetings,
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Shoraal on March 15, 2010, 12:24:44 pm
also - if you cast magic, you don't have the curse... as a matter of fact, you can't cast when cursed... or am I worng?
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 15, 2010, 12:25:38 pm
also - if you cast magic, you don't have the curse... as a matter of fact, you can't cast when cursed... or am I worng?


You are wrong. You can do everything while cursed. It is just that all your stats have half value. So most people have no (or almost no) mana left. That means most people can't do magic. However, if you have a lot of mana to start with you probably still have some when being cursed.

Greetings,
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Shoraal on March 15, 2010, 01:21:32 pm
hm, so far, I had always a blacked-out Mana-bar when cursed...
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Rigwyn on March 15, 2010, 01:46:18 pm

The blacked out  mana bar sounds very odd. I don't ever recall having that.

Regarding the increase in magic and the npc refactor, I think this is long overdue and am very very VERY happy to see this being worked on.    \\o//   For the two years that I have been playing, (dw)magic has been severely underpowered and nearly impossible to train without leveraging off sword/combat skills. Its been pretty useless at lower levels. This latest tweak is very encouraging. Thank you Thank you Thank you !



 



Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: bilbous on March 15, 2010, 04:31:37 pm
if your mental stats are all low around 50 or so then it is quite possible to have no mana when cursed. I think it might actually be better if the curse only affected derived stats instead of base stats. Are we really supposed to act like morons while suffering the curse? at what level of intelligence is mental retardation evident? Anyway getting off-topic here.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: jorrit on March 15, 2010, 05:53:26 pm
if your mental stats are all low around 50 or so then it is quite possible to have no mana when cursed. I think it might actually be better if the curse only affected derived stats instead of base stats. Are we really supposed to act like morons while suffering the curse? at what level of intelligence is mental retardation evident? Anyway getting off-topic here.

Well dieing and the consequences of dieing are not to be taken lightly.

Greetings,
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Ceromas on March 19, 2010, 02:22:42 pm
I checked, and there is a noticable difference between 0% and 100%.
Title: Re: Magic Rebalancing on EZPC
Post by: Bonifarzia on March 20, 2010, 11:43:05 am
I checked, and there is a noticable difference between 0% and 100%.

I guess it is not a spoiler to describe this observation, but rather a needful comment for the further discussion.
The k-factor (spellpower), the magic ways rank and its associated stat indeed each have some impact on the spells outcome, that is one or several of the observables: casting time, range, area of effect, inflicted damage, relative strength of a buff, chances to fumble, mana costs  and duration over time. However, most or all of these are restricted to certain intervals, such that increasing the training ranks, stats or k-factor does not change anything for that observable when the combination of the three quantities is sufficient to reach a certain limit. Thus, spell power may be of great use to compensate for a certain lack of training or a debuff (curse) at the cost of higher mana drain, casting times and chances to fumble, while in other cases, it will only improve some minor aspect of a spell. Also, I have the feeling that the relevant ranges are wider for those spells of the higher realms.

About my statement that magic is not balanced well with the combat arts, I should specify that this mainly holds for superior mobs (anything that can defeat a player character with one double hit, but not vice versa), and that I assume this to improve greatly when other changes will be made, for instance in mob behavior (retreating, jumping or even casting back), mana supplies, available equipment (use of crafted shields and armor) or mount mechanics (chances to miss or fumble while riding). Conclusion: I am happy with the new rules for the spell system and looking forward to observing further fine tuning.