PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kuiper7986 on May 15, 2003, 12:17:31 am

Title: What if
Post by: Kuiper7986 on May 15, 2003, 12:17:31 am: heh what if Planeshift used the Unreal 2 engine. That would be crazy but cool.
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Post by: Rulzern on May 15, 2003, 03:36:42 pm: Yeah, and cost like a billion USD
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Post by: hook on May 15, 2003, 04:11:34 pm: Quote
Originally posted by Kuiper7986
heh what if Planeshift used the Unreal 2 engine. That would be crazy but cool.

that would be pretty much the downfall of PS

reasons:
a) PS would become comercial, because u2 engine isn\'t for free
b) PS couldn\'t be totaly open-source, because u2 engine isn\'t (and probably won\'t!)
c) the unreal graphical engine is limited, and isn\'t quite the best for MMORPGs (IMHO)
d) PS would stop evolving at some point, because the engine wouldn\'t cope with it anymore ...CS and CEL are constantly improving and are open-sourced so PS devs can add whatever they need
e) it wouldn\'t be OS independant, since u2 engine isn\'t
f) the devs would have to learn to use a new engine and this way they would have to rebuild the whole World, concept etc.

there are probably even more reasons that speak against it, but i haven\'t seen a plausible reason for this engine change ...plus, if the u2 engine would be better for PS, the devs would already thought about it :]
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Post by: bbum on May 19, 2003, 08:03:40 am: hook, id like to say that i dought the crystal space engine will EVER grow past unreal2\'s engine, i think it would do great on the engine personaly, and character saving is already enabled on some unreal2 mods, like warcraft, where you level up.

BUT i dont think they can use professional tools like 3dsmax or maya for the world...(at least i havent found out how), you would half to use the unreal ed. level creator tool thing, so yes they probly would have to rebuild yliakum
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Post by: hook on May 19, 2003, 11:27:44 am: Quote
Originally posted by bbum
hook, id like to say that i dought the crystal space engine will EVER grow past unreal2\'s engine, i think it would do great on the engine personaly, and character saving is already enabled on some unreal2 mods, like warcraft, where you level up.

well ...let\'s see ...wolfenstein engine went old, quake engine went old, unreal engine went old ...do you see a patern here?

...why did they grow old? because their developpement stopped ...if you would read the crystalspace pages, you would know that CS is ever-evolving and probably won\'t stop in its evolution :]
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Post by: beza1e1 on May 19, 2003, 12:48:02 pm: But stopping the engine development is a good thing for the level designers. You can\'t create a level, when your tools change all the time. You\'ll never master it.

In Planeshift the \"level creation\" is not that important, because of the size of the world. I don\'t want to offend the world designers, but making a level in UT needs more detail work than making a city in Planeshift in my eyes.
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Post by: Skizzik on May 19, 2003, 01:46:10 pm: Quote
Originally posted by beza1e1
In Planeshift the \"level creation\" is not that important, because of the size of the world. I don\'t want to offend the world designers, but making a level in UT needs more detail work than making a city in Planeshift in my eyes.

Indeed, you will find more detail on a square meter of U2 than on a square meter of PS, but as a whole PS is a lot more work (due to the sheer size!).
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Post by: hook on May 19, 2003, 01:53:53 pm: well so far i didn\'t see one thing that would improve if PS was running on unreal2 engine ..even if we forget the problems with switching engines ...i think we can just call it a day and stop posting in this thread :)
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Post by: bbum on May 21, 2003, 08:29:31 pm: \"well ...let\'s see ...wolfenstein engine went old, quake engine went old, unreal engine went old ...do you see a patern here?\" -hook

like mmo engines dont get old or somthing???

every engine in history went old ... see a pattern?? . durrr..........

CS will get old, and already is reasonably old, and the ut2k3 engine is far beyond what crystal space will ever be, but go on, be ignorant.

but while the engine switch would be nice... PS is all about being free and ut2k is definatly not free
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Post by: 9rin on May 21, 2003, 09:15:30 pm: bbum, i think we see what you are trying to say, but don\'t understand why. the real misunderstanding here is the level on which you are comparing CS to U2K.what are your criteria for judging the relative value of each?
once we know this we can have an intelligent discussion on the topic.
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Post by: elminster on May 21, 2003, 09:38:53 pm: Quote
Originally posted by bbum
\"well ...let\'s see ...wolfenstein engine went old, quake engine went old, unreal engine went old ...do you see a patern here?\" -hook

like mmo engines dont get old or somthing???

every engine in history went old ... see a pattern?? . durrr..........

Have you EVER heard the term: \"development\"???
Quake engine and even Unreal engine DIDN\'T went old. The GAMES went old! NOT the engine! What the hell you think: they started everything from ground again???
The development of those engines CONTINUED -> result: Unreal 2 engine, Doom 3 engine, etc... See a pattern???

Quote
Originally posted by bbum
CS will get old, and already is reasonably old, and the ut2k3 engine is far beyond what crystal space will ever be, but go on, be ignorant.

I don\'t think we should argue about something, that is FAR beyond what your knowledge will EVER reach... - but if you really want to argue, then go ahead, I wait...

Advice: don\'t post, what you are unsure about: can make you look ridiculous...
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Greetings,
E.
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Post by: bbum on May 22, 2003, 12:43:37 am: mm not always true, the q3 engine is completly new from the quake2 engine

and the unreal2 engine is completly redone from unreal.

thats not true with all games though..

halflife engine is a moded q2 engine

and so is soldier of fortune1, and sof2 is a redone q3 engine

and alot of games used the unreal engine, but not unreal2

oh and i can assure you the doom3 engine is not an upgrade of the doom2 engine ;)
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Post by: bbum on May 22, 2003, 12:49:51 am: and if youll notice that was a quote of somthing hook said... i was disagreeing...yell at hook

i dont know how to do real quotes like you guys
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Post by: elminster on May 22, 2003, 12:57:50 am: Wonderful! I almost knew you will see the pattern doom2->doom3 instead of Quake3->Doom3.
Wonderful!

BTW quick question: have you ever done any programming (instead of \"Hello world\")?

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E.
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Post by: bbum on May 22, 2003, 09:40:48 am: well thats not exactly what you said,

What the hell you think: they started everything from ground again???
The development of those engines CONTINUED -> result: Unreal 2 engine, Doom 3 engine, etc... See a pattern???

i got the wrong idea i guess, but the doom3engine isnt a upgrade of the quake3 engine anyay.

and no i failed at any attempt to ever program, and all i ddi learn i forgot very fast.
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Post by: hook on May 22, 2003, 01:40:08 pm: ok, i give up ...i\'ll just leave this thread alone ...rant whatever you want ...i don\'t give a cow ...if you want a u2 port of PS ...go ahead, it\'s open source

i\'m off
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Post by: elminster on May 22, 2003, 07:53:51 pm: Quote
Originally posted by bbum
and no i failed at any attempt to ever program, and all i ddi learn i forgot very fast.

Then it is absolutely pointless to continue this in any way.
If you want to use Unreal 2 engine, do what Hook said.

--
Greetings,
E.
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Post by: Eiffe on May 22, 2003, 10:50:07 pm: Quote
Originally posted by bbum

i dont know how to do real quotes like you guys

Press the QUOTE button like everyone else. :)
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Post by: jorrit on May 27, 2003, 11:48:47 am: Quote
Originally posted by bbum
CS will get old, and already is reasonably old, and the ut2k3 engine is far beyond what crystal space will ever be, but go on, be ignorant.

As the project manager of Crystal Space I have to object to this. How do you know what Crystal Space will be able to do in the future? We are currently working on a new advanced OpenGL renderer which will do full dynamic lighting (similar techniques as used in Doom3), full shader and vertex program support and much more. I don\'t think that after this is done you can really say that ut2k3 will still be far beyond Crystal Space.

Greetings,
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Post by: Fanomatic2000 on May 27, 2003, 12:18:30 pm: Gah, I hate those stupid \"what-if\" things. This thread is absolutely pointless!
From what I\'ve seen so far there is nothing to complain about. Even if the game wasn\'t free I wouldn\'t say anything negative about the graphics.

Stop this bullsh*t now! X(
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Post by: hook on May 27, 2003, 03:54:36 pm: Quote
Originally posted by jorrit
As the project manager of Crystal Space I have to object to this. How do you know what Crystal Space will be able to do in the future? We are currently working on a new advanced OpenGL renderer which will do full dynamic lighting (similar techniques as used in Doom3), full shader and vertex program support and much more. I don\'t think that after this is done you can really say that ut2k3 will still be far beyond Crystal Space.

...and don\'t tell me i didn\'t tell you that before :evil: :pissed:
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Post by: Niber on July 01, 2003, 12:10:17 pm: Actually there is one way to get the UT2003 engine for free,, the developers has a competion going on and the engine is one of the price (read more on: http://www.masteringunreal.com )..

BUT STILL how can you guys complain about Crystal Space! It\'s wonderfull,, I had some newbie programmers who looked for a 3d engine which they could test some things on,, I recommended Crystal Space and now they totally agree that it\'s ownage!!
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Post by: lostprophet on July 01, 2003, 01:41:52 pm: I really don\'t see what all the fuss is about, and before you start your anally retentive moaning elminster, no I don\'t have a clue about programming above Flash 5 level :P I think we should keep this game as free as possible, and that\'s my main complaint against the unreal engine, but also I like the idea of a completely new, open-source engine. It\'s time developers did something they can be proud of instead of cribbing off others.
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Post by: tygerwilde on July 01, 2003, 06:39:33 pm: \"CS will get old, and already is reasonably old, and the ut2k3 engine is far beyond what crystal space will ever be, but go on, be ignorant\"

man, I hate to say this, but that is a completely moronic thing to say. I mean, come the freak on! I know nothing about programming myself, but even I know that an open source engine would be much easier to manipulate than one without opensource! what about in fifteen years, I would hope that a game like PS could still be running then, but with ut2k3, wouldn\'t the engine be an unmodified 15 year old engine in fifteen years? seems pretty elementary to me...
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Post by: lostprophet on July 02, 2003, 12:41:56 pm: Why don\'t we stop this petty bickering? It\'s never going to happen anyway so why are we all arguing about it? The main \"selling\" point of PS is that it is completely free, which means it needs to be built from scratch. And anyway, once the slowdown is sorted out, I like this engine a lot.
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Post by: Xalthar on July 02, 2003, 02:39:40 pm: Since the engine is sort of a project too, it will never stop evolving, neither will PS and the two will make a great team.. as they already do...