PlaneShift

Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 02:53:26 pm

Title: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 02:53:26 pm
There was some interesting role play these last few days...

-A guy killing a pregnant woman. That woman loses the unborn child and marries the guy who killed her...
That guy walks around in Hydlaa as if nothing happened.

-Another guy puts poison in food to make women love him...Of course, this leads to the almost unavoidable cybering...
What a surprise, that guy is not punished

-So called 'Ladies of the night', or should I say hoes, are selling their service for in game money to customers. Again we have the cybering part...
And again, it is tolerated...

It is a bit surprising for me, to see that prostitution, murder and fabrication and use of poison seems to be more or less nothing in this planeshift world. Was anybody punished? Was there any legal action? As far as I know, some players are under 18. Is that taken into consideration?


Contrary to that I had my own role play...
I was in the Stone Head Tavern with a guild mate and said this:

“Troyyer tries to pee at lady peckerly”

Which led to this:


A clearly angry Elady walks up to the message board and posts a note that reads.
Let it be known that all members of the Masters of Move guild are now banned from the Stonehead tavern for tossing their beer mugs at the walls and one of their members urinated on Lady Peckerly. Members of the Masters of Move will not be served at the Stonehead, are not welcome at any events held at the Stonehead and if found there will be told to leave. If they do not leave Malco will be called.

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=7fc2910b049026fc78cf9d406e697968&topic=31986.0


Actually I did not even do something, I only tried to do it. In my eyes that is a difference.

Additionally, how can a player ban other players from  certain areas of the game?
From an IC standpoit, I think it should be done by either the Octarchy or the Vigesimi. That means it should be done by GM's and/or devs.

In my eyes there is more balancing needed.


Sincerely
Troyyer Silvverman
Masters of Move

edit: I never threw a mug against any wall, especially not in the Stone Head Tavern!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Zytorr on August 13, 2010, 03:24:06 pm
Kra has following words from Qata:

Interesting to hear your side Troyyer, and you make an excellent point about carefully reading (re: "tries to") [**** see edit below***]. However, it is just because of your above mentioned issues that many have become very sensitive to smaller issues because of the existence of these major abuses and yes even hate mongering. There is no place for such in the real world let alone PS. And this is not referring to simple prostitution, a way of life for some, but rather something much more vile, a true display and promotion of hatred. Whether against a sex, a race, a belief, or a culture is not to be tolerated. I am also wondering why such issues clearly in violation of the PS rules have not been dealt with. Those relishing in the posts of their deeds are still around posting. And too, I am not referring to a murder or some Dakkru offering within the settings, but rather the mentality that this can just be done out of settings. (hope that thought is understandable). And too there is a great difference between sex (healthy) and rape (not to be tolerated). If one cannot figure out the difference they should refrain from it all.

A few #%&$%& can always ruin the fun for others. It is just too bad our world is like that. But yes that is why there is authority and banishment. It is also a terrible shame when reactions or over-reactions then lead too far the other way.

In any event, you and your guild has lost honor (also with the throwing of beer mugs against the walls) so it becomes a responsibility to regain that honor.


EDIT - Qata has just found out that indeed Lady Peckerly was dripping so doubts that statement as to what Trotter said about "tries to". This really needs to be resolved.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 13, 2010, 03:43:31 pm
Let me get this straight: You are complaining because you tried to piss on another character and they got mad at you? In the tavern?
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sarva on August 13, 2010, 04:02:00 pm
Troyyer You seem to be missing some information.

To your first point about the murder that happened Hydlaa. The murder was taken into jail and was being held. The victim of the murder came to the jail and said she didn't want charges pressed. Due to the wishes of the victim the person who committed the murder was not jailed but he was given a hefty fine ( yes he actually had to pay the circles to the guard) for having weapons drawn and using them inside the city walls.

As to your second point - The one who as you said "poisoned" some food was given 3 RL days in jail for a kidnapping that he committed as part of the overall RP. If the players involved had brought a complaint about other criminal activities and had presented some evidence then he would have served more time in jail.

A general note about cybering - Since planeshift is a game that kids and young teens can play we generally don't accept cybering in the game.  Having said that we can't really police what happens in private chat channels and what two adults do is private, as long as they keep their activities secret ( ie out of all public channels including alliance and guild chats ) is up to them.  When GMs do come upon people who let a message with less than pg-13 content slip into a public channel we do issue a warning. If there is a pattern of someone letting such message slip into public channels, even if accidental, on multi occasions then a ban would probably be issued. This hasn't happened yet in my time as a GM but I have heard of it happening before.  Given that there seems to be a higher than normal level of Cybering going on right now the GM team is looking into cracking down on it. The GM team leader is suppose to be posting on this subject soon.

If you honestly think it is acceptable to urinate in a public place like a tavern then I think you have more pressing things to be concerned about. I'm pretty sure if you walk into your local bar and urinate in the main area where people eat and drink not only will you most likely be banned from the place you would probably have the local police talking to you.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 13, 2010, 04:02:39 pm
Nobody wants to clean stagnant piss off a mother kikiri. I had children characters who were smarter than that.  :lol:
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 04:12:41 pm
Well Sarva,

thank you for those informations. As a GM you know more than a player.

As far as the other thing is concerned, how do you know i did anything? Seriously? Maybe i tried something and i was not successful.
I'm not sure you can punish somebody for doing something that he did not do...

edit:
"
EDIT - Qata has just found out that indeed Lady Peckerly was dripping so doubts that statement as to what Trotter said about "tries to". This really needs to be resolved.
"
From the moment i unsuccessfully tried something to the moment i left the tavern Lady Peckerly certainly was not dripping. I found nothing in my log...
If you really want to claim that somebody did something, you should be able to proof it. Where is the evidence?
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Zytorr on August 13, 2010, 04:19:39 pm
Sorry see my edit above about Troyyer's statement
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sarva on August 13, 2010, 04:33:15 pm
Troyyer Personally I know what I was told by the GM who was standing in the room at the time you peed, or tried to pee on Lady Peckerly. I also was told about a conversation that took place before the peeing incident that involved discussion of Lady P having her neck broken and thrown again the wall and then given to someone to be plucked. I don't think most of the people who like Lady P would believe that is an acceptable thing.


One thing I forgot to say in my original message but I will say here as a follow up. The rules are GMs do not get directly involved in player RPs. If there is a murder or other crime committed as part of the RP the guards will not be going on and actively trying to hunt down the person who committed the crime. It is mainly up to the people involved in the RP to hunt down the bad guy and basically present enough evidense for the Guards to take the bad guy into jail. Also not that GMs do not bring guards into game at the request of players. Again the rules are if the GM feels like it they can bring guards into the game but we have no obligation to bring a guard in just because a player says they need a guard.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Elady on August 13, 2010, 04:42:11 pm
Elady is acting on the information she has IC. IC she was told just before she left for Hydlaa about beer mugs being thrown in the tavern. When she had stepped out of the Stonehead moments before there were only 3 people in the tavern and one of the three told her about the mug throwing.

When I came back to the Stonehead the information I had was " Lady Peckerly is dripping from urin" That is the information I have IC'ly to act on. If the IC information I have and acted on is wrong then there is room for discussion.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 13, 2010, 04:45:19 pm
Obvious use of semantics and bad reasoning to avoid simply taking responsibility for one's character's actions. This is like school on a holiday ... no class. You also lose points for coming up here and trying to bring GMs and the community into what is your situation to deal with. Your lucky this isn't IRL because banning and the police is definitely not all you would have to deal with, at least in my neighborhood anyway.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 04:52:54 pm
Elady is acting on the information she has IC. IC she was told just before she left for Hydlaa about beer mugs being thrown in the tavern. When she had stepped out of the Stonehead moments before there were only 3 people in the tavern and one of the three told her about the mug throwing.

When I came back to the Stonehead the information I had was " Lady Peckerly is dripping from urin" That is the information I have IC'ly to act on. If the IC information I have and acted on is wrong then there is room for discussion.

Elady,

i certainly don't know where that information is coming from. But 'Lady Peckerly was certainly not dripping from urin'.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 04:54:52 pm
Obvious use of semantics and bad reasoning to avoid simply taking responsibility for one's character's actions. This is like school on a holiday ... no class. You also lose points for coming up here and trying to bring GMs and the community into what is your situation to deal with. Your lucky this isn't IRL because banning and the police is definitely not all you would have to deal with, at least in my neighborhood anyway.

Well,

this is a text based game. So obviously text is very important.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sen on August 13, 2010, 04:57:14 pm
Well... even four things

1) If Im running a tavern and a guest starts to pee on my very popular and liked pet - or tries to - I'd really give him a life time ban out of the tavern. By the way, also if Im only reported that by guests.

2) And another thing: Don't you get the idea, that a "rp" like this is somewhat inappropriate?

3) About your ranting about others.. what did you do against it? Die you /report? Did you contact gms? Did you try to talk to the people yourself?

Finally 4) All what verden said.


Sen
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Jekkar on August 13, 2010, 04:58:06 pm
There was some interesting role play these last few days...

-A guy killing a pregnant woman. That woman loses the unborn child and marries the guy who killed her...
That guy walks around in Hydlaa as if nothing happened.

-Another guy puts poison in food to make women love him...Of course, this leads to the almost unavoidable cybering...
What a surprise, that guy is not punished

-So called 'Ladies of the night', or should I say hoes, are selling their service for in game money to customers. Again we have the cybering part...
And again, it is tolerated...

It is a bit surprising for me, to see that prostitution, murder and fabrication and use of poison seems to be more or less nothing in this planeshift world. Was anybody punished? Was there any legal action? As far as I know, some players are under 18. Is that taken into consideration?


You observed Planeshift, gratz.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 05:08:23 pm
As far as i know Planeshift has a medieval settings background. Please do not mix that up with what we have in real live atm.
I can imagine that it was a bit more rough in that days...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Jekkar on August 13, 2010, 05:20:31 pm
As far as i know Planeshift has a medieval settings background. Please do not mix that up with what we have in real live atm.
I can imagine that it was a bit more rough in that days...

No what I meant to say was, you observed Planeshift.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 05:25:58 pm
As far as i know Planeshift has a medieval settings background. Please do not mix that up with what we have in real live atm.
I can imagine that it was a bit more rough in that days...

No what I meant to say was, you observed Planeshift.

Seems so Jekkar.

My response was not directed at you.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Parallo on August 13, 2010, 05:28:35 pm
People didn't just say 'lol, poison away. We don't mind.' Poisoners were dispised and feared by the public from the middle ages right up through the Renaissance.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Draklar on August 13, 2010, 05:38:24 pm
As far as i know Planeshift has a medieval settings background. Please do not mix that up with what we have in real live atm.
I can imagine that it was a bit more rough in that days...
1) More like Renaissance, actually.
2) In medieval times any abnormal behaviour was treated as a demonic possession and folks didn't actually accept possessed people back then (pissing on living things in a public place is, I believe, pretty abnormal). Accusations on perfectly normal people were also quite common as it was a good method of getting rid of someone you didn't tolerate. You should be happy this isn't a medieval setting.
3) This thread is awesome! Please, post more!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Falcon Avian on August 13, 2010, 05:45:44 pm
Esorono told Elady what happened, so she had IG knowledge.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 06:43:25 pm
... not all you would have to deal with, at least in my neighborhood anyway.

Sure, and a guy who murdered a pregnant woman would get a hefty fine and a guy who used poison to make girls love him would be put in jail for 3 days...
Is that your neighborhood?

In my first post i spoke about balancing.
I think the law or the rules or maybe unwritten habits should be applied and enforced in a balanced way.
As i see things, my guild got the hardest penalty, as we are banned maybe forever from the stone head tavern. The murderer and the poison user must be laughing at that...

When i look at the Octarchy decree 425 AY, i can not find anything that would indicate, that trying to pee at a kikirii is considered a crime.

But i found this:

Low Laws
XXIV.All potions, medicines and alchemical substances shall be properly represented and never sold under false pretenses. The creation of dangerous poisons or addictive intoxicants is forbidden.

High Laws
XXXIII.Murder is a high crime. One shall never move to put another to death. Too many become lost in the Realm of Death. Anyone caught manufacturing or distributing poisons which cause the permanent death shall be cast into the crystal. Anyone who shall murder another, be they infant or elderly, shall face justice determined by the Octarch   of the level on which the murder was committed.


Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Candy on August 13, 2010, 06:58:46 pm
We've always had people playing the bad guy and taking it far too lightly. ALWAYS, since the first day I started playing and most likely before that too. That's just bad RP.

Cybering is rampant because there seem to be a large percentage of players that think that's all there is to RP. It's always been there, and in any roleplay environment there will always be those that just want to play out the naughty stuff without any other sort of RP at all. Again, bad RP.

Honestly, though, as for what happened to Lady Peckerly, you never treat an animal like that regardless of whether or not it's in real life or just a game. It's sick, disturbed, and happened in a public channel - and the fact "other things worse than this happen" in-game is no excuse for that kind of behavior. If those other problems bother you so much, behave yourself and try to fix that crap, don't just keep sending PS RP on its evident downward spiral.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 07:07:00 pm
Candy,

please don't mix real life with a RP Game that has a medieval background.
And especially not with what a char does in game...
I used those other 'examples' to put things into perspective.
Clearly, the way things are punished is a bit out of balance...


Speaking of real life...
When i think about how chickens are held in those large 'factories', or pigs...i don't like that.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Candy on August 13, 2010, 07:13:42 pm
You're missing the point entirely. I never mixed IC with OOC; I'm saying in either case, it's unacceptable to behave like that. If you talk about plucking a bird, breaking its neck, and throwing it against a wall, and then pee on it, even in a fictional context, people are gonna think you're sick and avoid you. What the hell did you expect, then, other than a ban from the Stone Head? Hell, I'm surprised you didn't get a ban from the game in general for that.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Elady on August 13, 2010, 07:14:00 pm
Troyyer you do realize that I am a regular player with no special ability to enforce the ban.  Best I can do is tell you to leave if you come into the Stonehead and if you don't leave my choices are refuse to serve you, not talk to you or try to see if I can get a GM guard to come remove you, if the guards feel I have a valid reason to ask you to leave. Give what was said above about GMs not bringing in a guard simply because a player asks them to I'm not putting much faith behind getting a guard to toss you out if you don't leave on your own.

The Ban is not an official game sanction, unlike being put in jail, it is a RP thing but I can assure you I have no interest in talking or seeing any MOM member given the situation.  I personally feel that disrespecting the Stonehead by messing it up, peeing in it and trying to pee on Lady P is disrespecting me since I run the place so as a player I can choose to avoid dealing with people I feel disrespect me personally and the Stonehead, and especially Lady Peckerly.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 13, 2010, 07:18:25 pm
The specifics of this incident are unknown to me; however the character involved is.

My character, Venorel, had to go to the defence of Lady Peckerly on a lonely night in the Stone Head. It came very close to sending a challenge to Troyyer; as during that encounter he was threatening to kill and pluck our beloved Lady and have her for a late night snack. It was all IC and a lot of fun. Swords were drawn and things eventually calmed down.... or so Ven thought.

With such a continued theme (which made me chuckle by the way) my suggestion would be to go with it rather than try forcing the RP. My feeling is that any advertisement is good advertisement and being banned from Stone Head puts one heads above the regular tavern ruffians.

With such an open door in the Stonehead, my approach would be to petition GMs; not to right an IC wrong; but to aid me in the kidnapping of Lady Peckerly as a negotiation piece to have my Guild's banning overturned.  ;)

- Nova

[Edit - P.S. If no GMs' assistance is forthcoming a simple book left beside her explaining her disappearance should suffice. ]

[Another Edit - To do it right down't forget to update descriptions of the one holding our beloved Lady as well as another book explaining her description if set down somewhere. Oh and don't forget to lock the chicken coop!  ;D ]
 
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 07:20:30 pm
Hell, I'm surprised you didn't get a ban from the game in general for that.

lol
Are you serious here? What a joke.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 13, 2010, 07:27:02 pm
Troyyer you do realize that I am a regular player with no special ability to enforce the ban.  Best I can do is tell you to leave if you come into the Stonehead and if you don't leave my choices are refuse to serve you, not talk to you or try to see if I can get a GM guard to come remove you, if the guards feel I have a valid reason to ask you to leave. Give what was said above about GMs not bringing in a guard simply because a player asks them to I'm not putting much faith behind getting a guard to toss you out if you don't leave on your own.

The Ban is not an official game sanction, unlike being put in jail, it is a RP thing but I can assure you I have no interest in talking or seeing any MOM member given the situation.  I personally feel that disrespecting the Stonehead by messing it up, peeing in it and trying to pee on Lady P is disrespecting me since I run the place so as a player I can choose to avoid dealing with people I feel disrespect me personally and the Stonehead, and especially Lady Peckerly.

Elady,
it was never my intention to disrespect you in any way or form.
I think your work in the stone head tavern is very valuable.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Elady on August 13, 2010, 07:36:27 pm
Noca - PLease not another Lady Peckerly kidnapping. Been there done that once already not that long ago. Cost me 30,000 trias

Troyyer - OOC I have no problems with you as a player you are just playing your character. Please realize I'm just playing my character and reacting as she should given the situation, including feeling disrespected. That is just the way Elady is. She will do what ever she can to help those she likes, love or have just met. Get her upset at you and she is going to be very slow to offer forgiveness.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: lilura on August 13, 2010, 07:41:02 pm
Do not pie her and then try and lick it off her face  ;D

 :-X
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 13, 2010, 07:42:23 pm
Noca - PLease not another Lady Peckerly kidnapping. Been there done that once already not that long ago. Cost me 30,000 trias

Elady, you can depend on Weruno Wine Brokers to contribute to any ransom demands; or for payment to a professional to deal with the culprits if Ven's own swords are not enough.  She considers the Stonehead staff not only dear friends but valued clients; and the dear feathered Lady a loving mascot. :)

- Nova
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: lilura on August 13, 2010, 07:58:09 pm
 PLease not another Lady Peckerly kidnapping. Been there done that once already not that long ago. Cost me 30,000 trias

I concur I dont really wanna kill another person  :innocent:


AiwendilH I see you reading this and stop thinking that!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 13, 2010, 08:02:23 pm
  PLease not another Lady Peckerly kidnapping. Been there done that once already not that long ago. Cost me 30,000 trias

I concur I dont really wanna kill another person  :innocent:

My suggestion, then, would be to spend your trias wisely by procuring a lockable chicken coop.  ;D

- Nova
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Zytorr on August 13, 2010, 08:19:11 pm
Know this, the last person(s) to kidnap Lady Peckerly suffered greatly going to the Death Realm.  Lady Peckerly is a personal friend of Xiosia.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: FlaminDruid on August 13, 2010, 08:55:23 pm
How do I pee? I have seen this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUnzYIYLSxs
Want to do it too.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 13, 2010, 09:00:48 pm
Be sooo glad I do not play this game anymore as there would have been fiery death and Dakkru to pay for all of this. Herein lies why I kept such a tight ship... Now you know why I stressed so much about certain things like standing on the tables Elady and other little things. People never felt quite that comfortable, so nothing quite this bad happened before. :-\ Ah well, I hope you get this under control Elady. But it seems like my being "sanctimonious" and calling for a general clamp down is more and more needed. Heaven help you if you still play the game and care.

Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Catlemur on August 13, 2010, 09:04:17 pm
Can I slay Lady Peckerly? I need some Kikiri meat badly. ;D.Maybe the tavern stuff will cook it for me. I have not heard of law that forbids to pee on chickens. :innocent:
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 13, 2010, 09:24:23 pm

[ For the purposes of this post, I will make the distinction between what I refer to as 'cybering' and what I refer to as 'RP sex' and 'RP violence'. RP sex is sex that happens within the confines of the dome and is done completely ICly between two or more characters. RP violence is violent acts, including rape within the confines of the dome and is done completely ICly between two or more characters. Cybering is sex that happens OOCly between two or more players. Whether or not these definitions are widely accepted and/or held by you, the reader, is irrelevant. The intention is simply to clearly differentiate the two for this post ]

I have thoughts I'd like to share regarding the Stonehead banning, but will do so in a different post. I'd like to address the issue of RP sex and cybering in PS that have been raised by Troyyer and commented on by others, and I will try to do it with a logical flow, top down.

The first thing we all need to remember is that PS is not a public MMORPG. It is a private MMORPG offering public access. What does this mean? Simply that whatever the authorities say is law, becomes law. They don't have to follow any common civil liberties practices. Talad's law is the final word. That said, it is in their best interest to try and accomodate the public masses, if they desire players to flock and enjoy their MMORPG. So talking about these issues becomes a vital step in their discussions of rules and regulations, and this thread is a good place to let your voice be heard, regardless of your stand on the issues. I believe they are paying attention.

Next and OOCly, we all must realize that one person's ideology regarding sex and violence is likely to be quite different than the next person's. We cannot impose our own beliefs on a population simply because it's what we believe. We must allow each other our own thoughts and opinions, even if they are drastically different from ours. That is the fundamental principle of individuality. We may choose not to befriend or participate with someone who is diametrically opposed to our thinking, but we don't have the right to pass judgement on them.

I am of the opinion that RP sex and RP violence should be allowed without restraint, under the following conditions: 1] It is performed by two consenting adults (Definition varies widely but is commonly accepted as 18 or older in the US), and 2] It is kept completely in private channels and absolutely nothing that could be considered offensive in any way is done in any public channels. Now, the term offensive is inherently subjective in nature. So for my purposes, I will limit this to sexually offensive.

My character, Eelin, is a male Diaboli who plays as very sexually active. Not only is it completely within the 'settings' of the game, it is quite fun to RP him that way. So in the normal course of RP, Eelin may find himself attracted to a female character (or 3 female characters) and choose to act on his instincts. If he does, these acts are done entirely ICly and shouldn't be a problem for anyone as long as the basic assumptions for RP sex are followed. After all, Eelin is a character on an RP server and encouraged to 'immerse' into his role.

And too there is a great difference between sex (healthy) and rape (not to be tolerated). If one cannot figure out the difference they should refrain from it all.

Assuming this opinion is spoken about RP sex, I mean no offense nor anything personal here. I know Qata and we have RP'd together as well as spoken OOCly, and I have no issues with him. But this illustrates something that I think is important we stop and consider. Both sex and rape are very common fantasies played out on RP servers and RP forums, both done between consenting adults with the same interests, and further...both done in often valid RP situations. The statement concerns me for two reasons: 1] We cannot impose our own beliefs on each other by saying that one's choice of RPing a rape scenario is 'not to be tolerated' or 'If one cannot figure out the difference they should refrain from it all'. We have a right to take offense to anything we want, we don't have a right to see everyone through our own filters and paint them all to look like us with a broad sweeping brush. 2] This can easily be misconstrued as a bit self-serving in that we justify what 'We' do ingame (eg. healthy sex), making anything else unacceptable because we choose not to do it. Again, no offense intended to Qata, just and opportunity to illustrate what I feel are common traps we all tend to fall into.

Most everyone who knows Eelin also knows that I play Ahriman as well. He has been talked about a lot on the forums recently. For the record, Ahriman was created for the sole purpose of participating in a major RP. Every one of Ahriman's victims were volunteers and every one of them was given full reign to control the boundaries of the RP (eg. sex, rape, torture). There was never one incidence involving Ahriman's participation that was not discussed and agreed upon OOCly before it took place ICly.
And as Sarva pointed out, Ahriman did pay for one of his crimes, and he made a rather remarkable self-atonement for another. The point, RP crime has consequences and Ahriman is facing them.

As far as 'cybering', I believe that is the choice of the players. I do not condone nor condemn it, I simply feel it's irrelevant as it's done OOCly and usually outside PS itself.

We, as players in PS, are from a plethora of locations and cultures. This is one of the most diverse RP communities I have participated in. If we always have respect for each other, and open our minds to the fact that our opinion isn't always right for someone else, all of these issues will become moot. Let's make the choices that work for us personally, and allow others to do the same.

Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 13, 2010, 09:25:42 pm
But it seems like my being "sanctimonious" and calling for a general clamp down is more and more needed.

My thought is what you may need more, Illysia, is a sense of humour and to lighten up a bit.

Personally Elady's post on the Gug Board had me rolling on the floor with laughter. Guess we all don't (or didn't) play PS for fun and entertainment.

- Nova
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sulaika on August 13, 2010, 09:33:12 pm
One point I do not understand is, that all members of Masters of Move are banned from the tavern. I just find it not fair to all the others in the guild, that they have to pay for this.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 13, 2010, 09:50:51 pm
I stopped caring about this game awhile ago but I did, in the back of my mind, believe that things would just quietly get better on their own... Thanks for destroying that hope.

Peeing on the chicken is weird and demented as any player deciding that it is funny is probably not drunk when they come to that conclusion. it's animal cruelty and the fact that it's virtual doesn't make it any less disturbing or telling. And no, it's not a matter of humor. That is really destructive behavior and it's not funny to me and never will be. running a player run area is hard enough without people pulling stuff like this and you really should be more considerate of Elady.

Cybering has never been considered as acceptable RP in 9/10 respectable and even some less respectable RP communities. As a general note, the RP model existed long before current mediums and RP fads. That being said, this game used to be family friendly. Now it's not. Most people are lazy about checking into whether all parties are of the right age and even then you can be lied to. That could easily lead to lawsuits against PS from offended parents. It really is a far more serious matter than people realize, hence why mainstream MMOs have all those wacky chat filters.

Further, you can RP a relationship or even a promiscuous character without actually doing the sex part. If your imagination can't extend that far with actually doing it then you have other hindrances to worry about. I accept that it happens but it really needs to be reigned in as it has gotten out of hand. Side note, RPing rape fantasies? This is an medieval MMO not a sexual fantasy chat... really. And it is disrespectful to the bulk of the rape experiences which are harmful and tramatic and not a fantasy. Come on guys, really... ::|

But whatever, not my game, not my issue... handle it as you see fit. I might as well accept there is little hope that things will get better.

And to answer Sulaika, that's where roleplaying comes in. If they care about going to the Stonehead, they will issue sanctions and make amends. All things can be worked out one way or another with RP. But it's good for Elady to do it that way as it puts the responsibility for corrections back on the guild.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 13, 2010, 10:21:19 pm
Peeing on the chicken is weird and demented as any player deciding that it is funny...

Ironically my humour was triggered by that very insight into troyyer's character. This player bleeding from what goes on in the game to what one may feel about the situation in real life make me glad that Stonehead has a new proprietor.

[sarcasm]
Ban all literature written by the Marquis de Sade (as well as any modern mention of chicken golden showers)!   
[/sarcasm]

- Nova



Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 13, 2010, 10:28:40 pm
Then you should have more regard for said new proprietor. Running a player area is something you have no experience with in this game so I can't expect you to full understand why this is a problem. It is very stressful and hard at times to run an area as a normal player and RPs like this make it harder. Imagine carrying 2 tons then someone kicks your legs out from under you just for giggles. It stop being funny if you aren't the person doing it for giggles. But then maybe you like seeing people get struck out at...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: LigH on August 13, 2010, 10:38:28 pm
@ novacadian:

We all play it for fun. Especially Elady does (if not, she would have followed Illysia already).

@ Sulaika:

This ban is in-character and has to be roleplayed. And I believe this ban can be lifted during an appropriate roleplay as well. At least I would expect that from serious roleplayers to try to come to such an event eventually.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sulaika on August 13, 2010, 11:50:06 pm
Yes I know so, but I dont get why the rp goes like laying the whole burden on MoM guild...because it was only one of them. So I would not think that irl all would be banned for ones mistake...but well I assume Perlan will handle that issue well roleplaywise.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Aiwendil on August 14, 2010, 12:24:12 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lwjv_VRM7A
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Roled on August 14, 2010, 12:31:17 am
8-15-10
Friends and PS Community:  MY APOLOGY and CLARIFICATION

It was brought to my attention that some folks may have inferred meanings from my original post that I didn’t intend. Specifically some think, from reading my post, that I was accusing Eelin of the issues in my items two and three. That wasn’t and isn’t my intention at all.

My first comment was in direct response to Eelin’s post.   I still believe it to be true that role plays change, no matter how much planning happens, and that there was never an OOC plan or agreement to include torture or rape in our engagement rp. Eelin and I and I think everyone else involved concur on that. It wasn’t planned.

My second and third comments DO NOT refer to Eelin/ Ahriman. I am truly sorry if anyone has drawn that conclusion. I did not intend to accuse Eelin or his player, or anyone specific, of these issues. I meant my comments about using rape as entertainment as general comments. I meant my questions as to 'do we know who we play with' as general questions, as cautions to us all as responsible people.

I am truly sorry to you, Eelin, that you have borne the brunt of this misconstruing of my general meanings.

Comment 3 was also meant as a general comment. Please don’t assume that I was calling anyone a predator. That is certainly not what I meant. My comment was about generally behaving as caring and humane people.

Finally I am retracting my entire comment about my PS virtual character being ‘nice to slime buckets’ because that was taken wrong too apparently.  Roled as you know is a goodie two shoes mostly. I am sorry for any hurt feelings I have caused by his spouting off and bluster. And for my responsibility as his player for allowing him to do so.

 I do stand by my final sentence in the original post.

Please let’s act like human beings and not sociopaths.

On that note I apologize again, to Eelin, to anyone I have offended in character or ooc, through my flawed humanness and my mistakes. I am truly, truly sorry for any mistakes I have made, any untrue rumors about anyone especially Eelin, and any hurt players have borne from me opening my mouth.

And as I told Eelin today, Please know that everything I have said, I said out of a place of love and respect. I may be wrong in my assessment of the impact of what I was saying, and I may have been clumsy and unclear in my expression. But please know my intention was/is to contribute to making our little game world more loving and more respectful.

I am truly sorry for all the ways that I have failed in fulfilling my own intentions.

Sincerely,

Roled and
Roled’s player
***************************************************** Original post***************************************************

I have 3 comments:

1) It is unlikely that 'every IC action was agreed to OOCly before the rp' to paraphrase. Role plays go where they go- sometimes far afield from what was agreed on before hand by players. Roled was in on three group conversations planning certain parts of the 'engagement role play' which suddenly turned into a mind poisoning, torture including, rape including in game happening. That was NEVER EVER EVER agreed on OOCly. You know that. And you know, I would never ever agree to that as a basis of any story line I was helping with.

2) I have sisters irl and this is for them, and for me, in order to live in the rl world with some kind of humanity and honor. And to mirror rl emotions of our virtual characters.

It is totally unacceptable to tell people you are going to do one thing OOC, then push the limits of that into cybering, rape, harassment, abuse, torture, cruelty, under the illusion of IC actions. How old is the partner? Are you sure? Have they really agreed to that? Where is personal responsibility? Would a healthy person or healthy community or healthy respectful society use holocaust death camp actions for one's own 'fun' in a 'game'? If not then why on earth would one use rape as fun in a game?

It's the 'blame the victim' defense that I find reprehensible. ***edited***  I am honored that I have female character friends in this game, and I assume some of them to actually be female. Tho' I don't know. But think about it , who are the demographic playing this game? What is the likelihood that you DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA who that person is really, how old they are really, whether they are young but think they are old enough to handle a role play that turns a blurred line between IC and OOC.

3) It is the Responsibiliy of each of us to protect players from predators. Simple as that.

It is the responsibility of the GMs to act when THEY ARE TOLD BY PLAYERS about unacceptable OOC behavior. It is the responsibility of us as players to not tolerate any form of hatred and disregard of humanity. One cannot go around spouting racial slurs and expect to get away with it, IC or OOC. Neither should one expect to go around using and abusing women characters as objects or property or playthings for enjoyment. Be aware that sexual slavery is a real problem world wide. What if your little sister thought she was going to have a romantic picnic with some hunky avatar and then gets there and is instructed to take of her clothes, or do the bidding of this disembodied thing? Go to an adult chat room with a consenting adult and do that. Don't do it here.

**edited**

Act like human beings instead of sociopaths.

Roled Rolak
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 14, 2010, 12:46:30 am
I agree, especially this part:

Act like human beings instead of sociopaths.

This is a place to act out things you can't necessarily do in RL; however, there is a line. It's is not an excuse to be a sociopath and get away with it. Somethings are unacceptable.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sarva on August 14, 2010, 01:09:55 am
Speaking only as a single member of the GM team I feel ANY kind f rape RP is totally unacceptable. I don't care how much all the parties say it was planed, agreed to and consensual. I think if such an RP is brought to the attention of the GM team then everyone involved should be looking at a ban, especially if the details of the rape are acted out. Again just one GM's opinion but if need be I'll push hard that my view is acted on if the situation comes up.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 14, 2010, 01:54:54 am
OP keeps bringing up things that others did to obfuscate their own actions. Please try this tactic in a court of law to see how effective it is. The fact remains that running around pissing on things is not acceptable RP. Whatever others did is hearsay and not relevant to this specific incident. Apparently this sort of RP is condoned within your guild, so your guild is sharing the blame. That is the way that goes.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Zytorr on August 14, 2010, 03:26:14 am
Thank you Roled. you said it better than I so instead of emphsising this point I thank you.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 14, 2010, 05:09:52 am
This thread needs a sticky in the "What not to do" section, and what Roled said needs a highlight...hmm...there is no section in that name...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 14, 2010, 05:29:53 am
I have 3 comments:

1) It is unlikely that 'every IC action was agreed to OOCly before the rp' to paraphrase. Role plays go where they go- sometimes far afield from what was agreed on before hand by players. Roled was in on three group conversations planning certain parts of the 'engagement role play' which suddenly turned into a mind poisoning, torture including, rape including in game happening. That was NEVER EVER EVER agreed on OOCly. You know that. And you know, I would never ever agree to that as a basis of any story line I was helping with.

2) I have sisters irl and this is for them, and for me, in order to live in the rl world with some kind of humanity and honor. And to mirror rl emotions of our virtual characters.

It is totally unacceptable to tell people you are going to do one thing OOC, then push the limits of that into cybering, rape, harassment, abuse, torture, cruelty, under the illusion of IC actions. How old is the partner? Are you sure? Have they really agreed to that? Where is personal responsibility? Would a healthy person or healthy community or healthy respectful society use holocaust death camp actions for one's own 'fun' in a 'game'? If not then why on earth would one use rape as fun in a game?

It's the 'blame the victim' defense that I find reprehensible. "They all knew it was happening" Bull. I am honored that I have female character friends in this game, and I assume some of them to actually be female. Tho' I don't know. But think about it , who are the demographic playing this game? What is the likelihood that you DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA who that person is really, how old they are really, whether they are young but think they are old enough to handle a role play that turns a blurred line between IC and OOC.

3) It is the Responsibiliy of each of us to protect players from predators. Simple as that.

It is the responsibility of the GMs to act when THEY ARE TOLD BY PLAYERS about unacceptable OOC behavior. It is the responsibility of us as players to not tolerate any form of hatred and disregard of humanity. One cannot go around spouting racial slurs and expect to get away with it, IC or OOC. Neither should one expect to go around using and abusing women characters as objects or property or playthings for enjoyment. Be aware that sexual slavery is a real problem world wide. What if your little sister thought she was going to have a romantic picnic with some hunky avatar and then gets there and is instructed to take of her clothes, or do the bidding of this disembodied thing? Go to an adult chat room with a consenting adult and do that. Don't do it here.

Roled is tired of being nice to slime buckets. Roled has skills and mechanics.  

Act like human beings instead of sociopaths.

Roled Rolak

Well said Roled and i agree.

If i'm asked by Parents about their kids playing planeshift, i certainly can not recommend it...

Please let me add, that i really do not care what two adults are doing privately, as that is not my business.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 14, 2010, 07:27:58 am
Please let me add, that i really do not care what two adults are doing privately, as that is not my business.

Venorel care, because she is curious by nature.  ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 14, 2010, 10:46:55 pm
Most everyone who knows Eelin also knows that I play Ahriman as well. He has been talked about a lot on the forums recently. For the record, Ahriman was created for the sole purpose of participating in a major RP. Every one of Ahriman's victims were volunteers and every one of them was given full reign to control the boundaries of the RP (eg. sex, rape, torture). There was never one incidence involving Ahriman's participation that was not discussed and agreed upon OOCly before it took place ICly.
And as Sarva pointed out, Ahriman did pay for one of his crimes, and he made a rather remarkable self-atonement for another. The point, RP crime has consequences and Ahriman is facing them.

First of all, thank you Eelin for your detailed explanation.

If i understand this correctly, and speaking in general, in certain situation one just creates an alt to rp weird stuff. If that alt gets punished, one laughs about it, logs on the main char and plays as if nothing happened...

Is that how this planeshift game works?
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 14, 2010, 11:03:36 pm
If i understand this correctly, and speaking in general, in certain situation one just creates an alt to rp weird stuff.

People play alts for lots of reasons, one being to RP different experiences and personalities that are inconsistent with their current character.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 14, 2010, 11:08:37 pm
Yes, and that is perfectly fine.

But if you create an alt for the short term and you use that alt to rp weird stuff it looks a bit fishy in my eyes.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 14, 2010, 11:18:12 pm
But if you create an alt for the short term and you use that alt to rp weird stuff it looks a bit fishy in my eyes.

It's your right to have your own opinions and beliefs, as it is everyone's, and I will support your right with the same vigor as I would the next person's.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 14, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
I appreciate the way you contribute to this discussion, Eelin. At least, it seems to be possible to talk to you in a civilized manner.

We seem to agree to disagree in some areas. That's life.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 14, 2010, 11:35:26 pm
I appreciate the way you contribute to this discussion, Eelin. At least, it seems to be possible to talk to you in a civilized manner.

We seem to agree to disagree in some areas. That's life.


Thank you, Troyyer. I took the time to respond to your original post hoping to answer your question. I'm the nicest guy in the world, and harbor no hate or resentment to anyone. Some have a tendency to attach Ahriman's actions and beliefs to me, the player. Ahri was just a character created for a plot...most definately evil, but most definately not me!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 14, 2010, 11:53:32 pm
I'm the nicest guy in the world, and harbor no hate or resentment to anyone. Some have a tendency to attach Ahriman's actions and beliefs to me, the player.

I think the problem is more that even in an RP setting certain topics are considered taboo not matter what. Sex and violence without constraints has almost always been viewed warily in the PS community. People can get weird and there is no need to give them a sandbox to do that in. Rape in particular was considered tasteless and the domain of talentless RPers. I remember one I was around back in kada's, the whole matter was ridiculous and completely tasteless. That's not to mention the needless purple prose and bad RP. It being in main was just the final straw on the matter.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: jaculapundactum on August 15, 2010, 12:09:30 am
My head hurts from reading this thread.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Roled on August 15, 2010, 12:35:56 am
My heart hurts....
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Falcon Avian on August 15, 2010, 02:40:30 am
My wings hurt.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 15, 2010, 03:11:51 am
This has really digressed... Bring back to the issue on hand, I know that when different people RP with their own different means of communicating, they might use the /me "tries" to [action].   That's generally used as a commitment to the action, as it's showing effort and intent on the part of the character to perform the desired action...


As to the forming of alts and such, as best I could gather from the conversation...  Well, for me, the formation of a character specific for a RP plot is fine, I've done it once or twice, sometimes that character will die, and I won't come back to playing him/her, and sometimes, that character develops into a whole new persona, and become a really enjoyable character to play.... Take Eelin's character Ahriman for example there :)


On that note, as for Eelin being a baddie OOCly like Ahriman... HA! That's all I have to say on that matter, Eelin- You're great bro, keep it up :)

Just my take on the matter, take it how you want.. :)   Please no one chew me out too bad :P
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 15, 2010, 03:45:26 am
Additionally, how can a player ban other players from  certain areas of the game?
From an IC standpoit, I think it should be done by either the Octarchy or the Vigesimi. That means it should be done by GM's and/or devs.

Obviously no player can ban another player from anywhere in the game, mechanically, but I will point this out (not taking any sides in the actual dispute).

Elady has gone to great lengths to proliferate RP for everyone at the Stonehead. She has dedicated a lot of her time and herself into offering all of the community a place to enjoy some fun RP. I think we owe her at least the chance to RP that situation and it's resolution as she sees appropriate, because she really has become the 'proprietor' of the Stonehead, especially in recent weeks, from an RP perspective.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: sashia_mennar on August 15, 2010, 04:00:01 am
Eelin, I'm sorry, I'm terribly sorry.

Please try to understand me. I have to say that. Or rather ask. I have no choice, and it's all your fault.

When. for Dakkru's sake, are we going to marry? I'm sorta tired of waiting. Really.

Last warning: unless you do something about it, real quick, I'm going to stalk Ahri. And I'll make you sorry, love. Sorrier  than you ever was, or are, or planning to be.

You ain't got no jokes.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 15, 2010, 04:17:12 am
*Caraick gulps, and worries for his friend...*
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Leicace on August 15, 2010, 07:04:28 am
/me agrees with Caraick. :D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Orgonwukh on August 15, 2010, 11:39:22 am
When i look at the Octarchy decree 425 AY, i can not find anything that would indicate, that trying to pee at a kikirii is considered a crime.

Quote from: The Octarchal Decree of 425 AY
[...] XXII. All animals, pets, or small flying beasts shall be treated well. [...] Mistreatment of animals is prohibited. [...]
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sarva on August 15, 2010, 11:47:44 am
I'm the nicest guy in the world, and harbor no hate or resentment to anyone. Some have a tendency to attach Ahriman's actions and beliefs to me, the player.

I think the problem is more that even in an RP setting certain topics are considered taboo not matter what. Sex and violence without constraints has almost always been viewed warily in the PS community. People can get weird and there is no need to give them a sandbox to do that in. Rape in particular was considered tasteless and the domain of talentless RPers. I remember one I was around back in kada's, the whole matter was ridiculous and completely tasteless. That's not to mention the needless purple prose and bad RP. It being in main was just the final straw on the matter.

Just to note to go along with Illysia's comment that rape RPs are considered tasteless. In fact the official game policy is that any rape RP is strictly prohibited. It doesn't matter if both sides agreed to the RP or not. If the GM team finds out about any kind of rape RP that happened then the participants are going to get a lengthly ban at the min, up to a lifetime ban depending on the situation.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sillamon on August 15, 2010, 01:40:49 pm

This was too long .. and its making my eyes bleed.

A few grave things stick out repeatedly..

1. DONT CONFUSE IC INFORMATION WITH OOC INFORMATION.
2. DONT TAKE IC ACTIONS PERSONALLY
3. IC ACTIONS REFLECT THE CHARACTER, NOT THE PLAYER
4. DONT JUDGE A PERSON BY THEIR GUILD

 
If Troyer want to play a bad guy, then let him. He has every right to do so. The actions his character took appear to be rather amusing actually.
I see a lot of comments where people are taking his character's IC actions personally. Folks, you need to keep IC and OOC worlds separate. Period.

Troyer,

I feel bad for you. You have stumbled into a game that does not really support role play. Its called a role playing game, but it really isnt. We have asked repeatedly for rules and guidelines for players to prevent these types of situations repeatedly but got ignored each time. Unfortunately this sort of crap role play is a hallmark of planeshift. Planeshift considers this to be acceptable so dont expect it to get much better than this.

Good Luck,
Rigwyn
 
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: neko kyouran on August 15, 2010, 02:14:06 pm

You have stumbled into a game that does not really support role play. Its called a role playing game, but it really isnt. We have asked repeatedly for rules and guidelines for players to prevent these types of situations repeatedly but got ignored each time. Unfortunately this sort of crap role play is a hallmark of planeshift. Planeshift considers this to be acceptable so dont expect it to get much better than this.


oh really?

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34508.0

made by the players, for the players.

[e] and the follow up to that:  http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36546.0
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: jaculapundactum on August 15, 2010, 02:35:43 pm
oh really?

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34508.0

made by the players, for the players.

[e] and the follow up to that:  http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36546.0

We both know that the "RP covenant" is not being enforced or followed in the least.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: neko kyouran on August 15, 2010, 05:27:11 pm
and who's fault is that?  the player base for not following it.

[e] to expand on that.  it's the players responsibility to create the community and promote RP.  its the dev's job to create the engine that allows the player base to create the community.  the GM team exists to help promote this concept.  if there are acts going on in game as  described in this thread, then its the responsibility of the player base to notify the correct personnel of these acts. 

if the player base sees these acts go on in game, and does not report them, then they have only themselves to blame for the way the game's community evolves.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sillamon on August 15, 2010, 05:54:03 pm

With all due respect Neko,  I have to wonder where you have been during the last 3 to 6 months or so while this was being discussed. Its not the fault of us players who have spent much time trying our best to promote good rp We asked for simple rules to support quality role play. Thats all. No code changes, no art, nothing too involved - just a matter of policy adjustment. We would have even helped to write that policy. We got no support regarding this, just a cold shoulder.  I wont repeat what we, the community asked for. Its been written and most of it remains on the forum. Its a dead horse now.

Regarding the RP Covenant that Xillix spearheaded, that was never enforced, it was just an attempt to temporarily pacify the community. With Xillix gone it means even less now. Furthermore, the recpetion of it was lukewarm. If you look at your second link there were a lot of snorks in the mix. Not much enthusiasm about it. For some it was a shard of hope. The covenant as far as I know ( correct me if Im wrong ) was created by Xillix for the players - not by Players ;)

Anyhow .. the problems with RP on planeshift are deeply rooted. I would guess that the root of all this mess is the fact that the team developing the game is not really that interested in roleplaying. Again, this too has been discussed and details can be found on the forums using the handy-dandy search button  :sorcerer:









Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: LigH on August 15, 2010, 06:01:24 pm
if the player base sees these acts go on in game, and does not report them, then they have only themselves to blame for the way the game's community evolves.

Might be true ... unfortunately, those who failed finding the correct way to report it to the correct people eventually left the game. Was it too hard to find? Or did they just insist in their "wrong" ways of reporting? Well, doesn't matter anymore. They decided.

What was the international sign of sarcasm again? I can't remember it. But I will remember to use "/report" in case of nuisances, and then trust in the GM team to handle it and ignore the nuisances further on.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 15, 2010, 06:18:49 pm
Interesting Verden,
in this thread you wrote:
[...] The fact remains that running around pissing on things is not acceptable RP.[...]

I found this in another thread:
Considering we have an issues where people think that good RP means pissing on and raping chickens,[...]

Please, do not fabricate such stuff!
Claiming false things is certainly not warranted.
Or should i say it is insulting...



Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Roled on August 16, 2010, 05:17:32 am
8-15-10
Friends and PS Community:  MY APOLOGY and CLARIFICATION

It was brought to my attention that some folks may have inferred meanings from my original post that I didn’t intend. Specifically some think, from reading my post, that I was accusing Eelin of the issues in my items two and three. That wasn’t and isn’t my intention at all.

My first comment was in direct response to Eelin’s post.   I still believe it to be true that role plays change, no matter how much planning happens, and that there was never an OOC plan or agreement to include torture or rape in our engagement rp. Eelin and I and I think everyone else involved concur on that. It wasn’t planned.

My second and third comments DO NOT refer to Eelin/ Ahriman. I am truly sorry if anyone has drawn that conclusion. I did not intend to accuse Eelin or his player, or anyone specific, of these issues. I meant my comments about using rape as entertainment as general comments. I meant my questions as to 'do we know who we play with' as general questions, as cautions to us all as responsible people.

I am truly sorry to you, Eelin, that you have borne the brunt of this misconstruing of my general meanings.

Comment 3 was also meant as a general comment. Please don’t assume that I was calling anyone a predator. That is certainly not what I meant. My comment was about generally behaving as caring and humane people.

Finally I am retracting my entire comment about my PS virtual character being ‘nice to slime buckets’ because that was taken wrong too apparently.  Roled as you know is a goodie two shoes mostly. I am sorry for any hurt feelings I have caused by his spouting off and bluster. And for my responsibility as his player for allowing him to do so.

 I do stand by my final sentence in the original post.

Please let’s act like human beings and not sociopaths.

On that note I apologize again, to Eelin, to anyone I have offended in character or ooc, through my flawed humanness and my mistakes. I am truly, truly sorry for any mistakes I have made, any untrue rumors about anyone especially Eelin, and any hurt players have borne from me opening my mouth.

And as I told Eelin today, Please know that everything I have said, I said out of a place of love and respect. I may be wrong in my assessment of the impact of what I was saying, and I may have been clumsy and unclear in my expression. But please know my intention was/is to contribute to making our little game world more loving and more respectful.

I am truly sorry for all the ways that I have failed in fulfilling my own intentions.

Sincerely,

Roled and
Roled’s player


************** also posted as edits to my original post ***********************************
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 16, 2010, 05:30:54 am
And as I told Eelin today, Please know that everything I have said, I said out of a place of love and respect.

Roled,
Thank you for clearing that up. I know where your heart is and I maintian my utmost respect for you!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 16, 2010, 05:44:52 am
I maintian my utmost respect for you!

Ditto

- Nova
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 16, 2010, 02:46:57 pm
When. for Dakkru's sake, are we going to marry? I'm sorta tired of waiting. Really.

Kirna...Is that you? You ruined my surprise! Oh well, our secret is out, order the dress!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 16, 2010, 05:57:20 pm
Quote
Please, do not fabricate such stuff!
Claiming false things is certainly not warranted.
Or should i say it is insulting...

So you deny the fowl allegation that you are a chicken predator?

Its terrible the liberties that forum trolls take, just terrible. But it is still a prime example of what happens when you post something that should have been taken care of directly with the characters in question. It is the responsibility of your character to work out any issues with other characters within RP.

If you attempted to piss on the chicken and got "banned" from the tavern by the proprietor, then you should work it out with them. Not come up here and say, I got banned for trying to piss on a chicken, but wait those other people... they were doing a rape RP! Considering there was no real ban to begin with, it becomes ludicrous quickly.

The behavior of others is a separate issue. Any infractions of the user policy that you observe in game should be logged and reported to the GM team directly. So if you observe henious RP being committed, use the /report command and inform a GM. There is no point in posting hearsay in the forums, it does no good, and it detracts from any point you were trying to make.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: troyyer on August 16, 2010, 11:38:49 pm
[...]
So you deny the fowl allegation that you are a chicken predator?
[...]

I will just refer to what i posted above:
Quote
Interesting Verden,
in this thread you wrote:
Quote from: verden on August 13, 2010, 07:54:54 PM
"[...] The fact remains that running around pissing on things is not acceptable RP.[...]"

I found this in another thread:
Quote from: verden on August 13, 2010, 07:57:30 PM
"Considering we have an issues where people think that good RP means pissing on and raping chickens,[...]"

Please, do not fabricate such stuff!
Claiming false things is certainly not warranted.
Or should i say it is insulting...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: sashia_mennar on August 16, 2010, 11:42:30 pm
When. for Dakkru's sake, are we going to marry? I'm sorta tired of waiting. Really.

Kirna...Is that you? You ruined my surprise! Oh well, our secret is out, order the dress!

Sure, love!

* Kirna grins

But...
Are you sure we can afford what I would like to order?
Please send me a groffel soon, we need to talk.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 17, 2010, 02:02:36 am

When. for Dakkru's sake, are we going to marry? I'm sorta tired of waiting. Really.

Kirna...Is that you? You ruined my surprise! Oh well, our secret is out, order the dress!

Sure, love!

* Kirna grins

But...
Are you sure we can afford what I would like to order?
Please send me a groffel soon, we need to talk.


*Caraick is now even more worried for his friend*  ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Catlemur on August 17, 2010, 08:31:20 pm
According to some African tribe traditions the man who pissed on the chicken shall now marry it. :devil:
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 17, 2010, 10:48:28 pm
Its gonna be a white wedding...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 17, 2010, 11:18:20 pm

made by the players, for the players.


Sadly, the players have tried over and over again to enforce RP, or at least try and teach a lesson to those new to RP, about the what should and shouldn't be done. Very few people agree and learn, many people pick fights and call names *coughs* the E word *coughs*, and most don't want to read what they should, out of laziness.

made by the players, abused by the players.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 18, 2010, 04:06:52 pm
According to some African tribe traditions the man who pissed on the chicken shall now marry it. :devil:

 ;D ;D ;D



made by the players, for the players.


Sadly, the players have tried over and over again to enforce RP, or at least try and teach a lesson to those new to RP, about the what should and shouldn't be done. Very few people agree and learn, many people pick fights and call names *coughs* the E word *coughs*, and most don't want to read what they should, out of laziness.

made by the players, abused by the players.


Then how about instead of bashing it on the forums, and lamenting over how it's been "abused" by the players, you get out and try and help others to learn it, or learn to rp? :) I've played with you before Geoni, and I know you're a great RPer, even just the example of someone RP-ing can bring others into the roleplay...

Also,  I don't think it's being abused, per se, but I would say that in the case of a large number of players, it is being ignored... That's a tad different then being abused, just my thoughts though, for what it's worth :)


Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 19, 2010, 05:25:22 am
Abused was a strong word...only some players abuse, and aren't punished for it. I wasn't trying to generalize but it does seem that way.

I'll come back onto the server in a couple of years, perhaps when there is a higher player count. For now I will be playing another game. Learning how to RP is not a hard thing to do. To people new to RP, they should just learn from the arguments that have been going on in this forum for the past year or so and grasp what is proper and what is improper. Learning the settings, history, how to make an unforgettable character, etc., are things that can be done. People cannot be taught when everybody has a different style, they can only grasp the rules of staying IC, and then when it comes to RPing, they have to teach themselves. It is an art.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Tessra on August 22, 2010, 01:18:48 am
I have 3 comments:

1) It is unlikely that 'every IC action was agreed to OOCly before the rp' to paraphrase. Role plays go where they go- sometimes far afield from what was agreed on before hand by players. Roled was in on three group conversations planning certain parts of the 'engagement role play' which suddenly turned into a mind poisoning, torture including, rape including in game happening. That was NEVER EVER EVER agreed on OOCly. You know that. And you know, I would never ever agree to that as a basis of any story line I was helping with.

2) I have sisters irl and this is for them, and for me, in order to live in the rl world with some kind of humanity and honor. And to mirror rl emotions of our virtual characters.

It is totally unacceptable to tell people you are going to do one thing OOC, then push the limits of that into cybering, rape, harassment, abuse, torture, cruelty, under the illusion of IC actions. How old is the partner? Are you sure? Have they really agreed to that? Where is personal responsibility? Would a healthy person or healthy community or healthy respectful society use holocaust death camp actions for one's own 'fun' in a 'game'? If not then why on earth would one use rape as fun in a game?

It's the 'blame the victim' defense that I find reprehensible. "They all knew it was happening" Bull. I am honored that I have female character friends in this game, and I assume some of them to actually be female. Tho' I don't know. But think about it , who are the demographic playing this game? What is the likelihood that you DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA who that person is really, how old they are really, whether they are young but think they are old enough to handle a role play that turns a blurred line between IC and OOC.

3) It is the Responsibiliy of each of us to protect players from predators. Simple as that.

It is the responsibility of the GMs to act when THEY ARE TOLD BY PLAYERS about unacceptable OOC behavior. It is the responsibility of us as players to not tolerate any form of hatred and disregard of humanity. One cannot go around spouting racial slurs and expect to get away with it, IC or OOC. Neither should one expect to go around using and abusing women characters as objects or property or playthings for enjoyment. Be aware that sexual slavery is a real problem world wide. What if your little sister thought she was going to have a romantic picnic with some hunky avatar and then gets there and is instructed to take of her clothes, or do the bidding of this disembodied thing? Go to an adult chat room with a consenting adult and do that. Don't do it here.

Roled is tired of being nice to slime buckets. Roled has skills and mechanics.  

Act like human beings instead of sociopaths.

Roled Rolak

Well said Roled and i agree.

If i'm asked by Parents about their kids playing planeshift, i certainly can not recommend it...

Please let me add, that i really do not care what two adults are doing privately, as that is not my business.

I don't usually post on the forums very much, but I do have some thoughts I would like to make known on this subject.  First and foremost, I am in complete agreement with Roled, both in his original post, and with a majority of the edits added in later posts. 

1) I know for a fact certain events took place within the recent long form role play were NOT agreed upon nor discussed in advance.  Heh, I was asked to do some things that I most definitely did not agree to, and ended up walking out on when it went too far for what I was willing to do.  I participated only tangentially to a majority of the events, but saw and experienced a fair amount of confusion and angst brought about by people making choices for others.  I saw many very kind people trying their best to make everyone happy, and becoming miserable in the process.  It is impossible to please everyone in such a large group of people, and I watched some of my good friends get very upset and frustrated when they could not. 

I may be new to the game, but I've been role-playing for some time, and it takes a bit of getting used to to be able to negotiate and work a situation to stay in character, while still meeting the needs of the overall role-play and those of the other players.  I think a lot of the issues arose from people not realizing that it was ok to say no.  You never HAVE to do what someone else wants you to.  You never HAVE to be the way someone else wants you to be.  No one else should ever have that level of control over you; that is simply another form of god-modding. 

I would also like to add, I have heard a bit of rumoring with people trying to put blame upon certain people for how the long form role play proceeded.  I find it infuriating that Roled and others were being blamed for other people's individual actions.  Roled did nothing more than facilitate this, by introducing people and putting them in a position to make their own choices on how to proceed.  We are all individuals, and we all made our own decisions on how to proceed.  If someone acted in a way they were not happy about, they should at least accept that it was their own decision to do it, and not try to say "So and So made me do it."  That is both ridiculous and incorrect.  In future situations, it would be better to simply say "No, I don't want to make my character do that" than to do something and later look for someone else to blame for one's discontent. 

2) Unless you have met someone face to face, you cannot be sure who they are across the internet.  There is no way to know for sure how old someone is in this game, and the PG/PG-13 rules are in place to protect minors from being exposed to things that can be both too mature, and potentially disturbing to them.  People may claim to be 18 or older, and in reality be very young.  Does anyone want to risk emotionally disturbing an impressionable teenager or younger, simply because they think a scenario is "fun?"  Do we all check the ages of everyone we RP with before writing anything?  Of course we don't.  We might check before doing anything violent or romantic, but as a rule, most people do not.  Very few people have asked my age, and some have asked me to do very adult things without ever checking to see if I was 9, 19 or 90. 

Some people do find rape and violence to be fantasies, and to be fun RP scenarios.  It is not for me to judge them or their acts.  I've written them myself, and while it is not something I particularly revel in, it can have a profound effect on one's character.  Most people know that I play both Tessra and Teshia.  Teshia is an emotionally scarred woman, and having been raped, she now has yet another reason to be slightly unhinged.  If you've ever RPd with her, you've probably noticed a slight tendency for her to be nuttier than squirrel poo, and that was only one of the factors that led to her being so emotionally complex.  I do not think it should ever become a common event, or used as "filler" when someone cannot think of anything better to do.  Others in this thread have mentioned writing "events" without ever describing the details.  I personally find this to be a wonderful way to give one's character development, without pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable to write in a game.  There have been a few times when myself and those I was writing with have agreed to "not and say we did."  It is entirely possible for two characters to be in a romantic relationship without ever writing intimate scenes.  Part of that involves talking to the player of the character you are writing with, and deciding what you are both comfortable with, and what you both wish to gain from the RP.  If both people are not happy, then it is not going to be a fun, productive RP.

3) I will not judge anyone for writing sex RP.  I've done my fair share of it [wow, I'm just owning up to all my sins here :p ], but I do not think it should EVER be done lightly, and NEVER without making every possible attempt to ensure the person one is writing with is legal.  And, it should NEVER be placed within main or any public channels where it is possible for children to be exposed to it.  I'm with troyyer here, in that I really don't want to know what other people are doing in their whispers and groups.  Of course, in a perfect RP world, no one would be breaking the PG/PG-13 rating, and no sexual RP would take place, but I think it would be very naive to assume that will ever happen.  My biggest actual concern with the sex RP, is not that it happens, but more the focus that is placed upon it.  The point of this game is not to come in and have intimate scenes every night, over and over again.  So much of the actual fun of this game, and its RP possibilities are lost within a constant need and desire for sex RP.

I'm in my twenties, IRL, and I am more than willing to tell someone "No" if they ask me to do something I am uncomfortable doing.  But, if I were younger, less experienced, and less jaded about certain things, I might very easily find myself playing along with certain RP situations simply because I wouldn't want to make the other people mad.  I have seen people, adults older than myself, in the few months I've been here, doing things they were uncomfortable with, simply because they felt they had no choice.  I might not worry for a grown man/woman, but I would have serious worries for a 9 year old, like one of the forum members I noticed.  I've made a few people mad, and been yelled at, cursed at and harassed in game [IC and OOC] and out of the game [OOC, obviously].  I can take that, but there are people who play this game who should never be exposed to that manner of behavior.  Children play here, and if I ever saw someone treating one of them the way I was treated, you bet your happy operating systems I would be reporting like crazy.  Under NO circumstances should that be tolerated by us as players.  The GMs don't see everything, and Roled is right.  It is our responsibility to report such things.     

Role playing with people, especially when it is on a consistent basis involves being true to one's character, as well as ensuring to the best of you ability that the other players are enjoying the role play.  That doesn't mean violating your own sense of ethics to keep them happy, but compromising, and working together to keep all players satisfied with how the events proceed.  If people are only concerned with their own characters, and their own desires, be they for sex, violence, rape, kidnappings, or even more innocuous things like dueling and training, there is no way that they can be a good role play partner.  And if people are not willing to attempt to ensure the safety and well-being of others in this game, then they have no business playing here. 



Finally, I would like to say, my thoughts are just my thoughts, and not directed at anyone specifically.  In the 3.5 months I have been playing this game, I have seen some very good things, and some very bad things.  I still believe the good things and good people outweigh the bad, but I do think that we need to become a bit more... vigilant... in our respect for others. 
/me tries to return to lurkdom
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 22, 2010, 03:33:30 am
But we do have to judge people on these extreme sorts of fantasies. Ultimately, it is a matter of legal concern. If one of the situations gets out of hand, we could find the entire project shut down rather suddenly. No amount of arguing it on the forums is going to matter one iota. It is inappropriate to mis-use this project for such purposes. 
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Vieg on August 22, 2010, 04:05:39 am
This is interesting
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 22, 2010, 04:07:39 am
8-15-10
Friends and PS Community:  MY APOLOGY and CLARIFICATION

It was brought to my attention that some folks may have inferred meanings from my original post that I didn’t intend. Specifically some think, from reading my post, that I was accusing Eelin of the issues in my items two and three. That wasn’t and isn’t my intention at all.

My first comment was in direct response to Eelin’s post.   I still believe it to be true that role plays change, no matter how much planning happens, and that there was never an OOC plan or agreement to include torture or rape in our engagement rp. Eelin and I and I think everyone else involved concur on that. It wasn’t planned.

My second and third comments DO NOT refer to Eelin/ Ahriman. I am truly sorry if anyone has drawn that conclusion. I did not intend to accuse Eelin or his player, or anyone specific, of these issues. I meant my comments about using rape as entertainment as general comments. I meant my questions as to 'do we know who we play with' as general questions, as cautions to us all as responsible people.

I am truly sorry to you, Eelin, that you have borne the brunt of this misconstruing of my general meanings.

Comment 3 was also meant as a general comment. Please don’t assume that I was calling anyone a predator. That is certainly not what I meant. My comment was about generally behaving as caring and humane people.

Finally I am retracting my entire comment about my PS virtual character being ‘nice to slime buckets’ because that was taken wrong too apparently.  Roled as you know is a goodie two shoes mostly. I am sorry for any hurt feelings I have caused by his spouting off and bluster. And for my responsibility as his player for allowing him to do so.

 I do stand by my final sentence in the original post.

Please let’s act like human beings and not sociopaths.

On that note I apologize again, to Eelin, to anyone I have offended in character or ooc, through my flawed humanness and my mistakes. I am truly, truly sorry for any mistakes I have made, any untrue rumors about anyone especially Eelin, and any hurt players have borne from me opening my mouth.

And as I told Eelin today, Please know that everything I have said, I said out of a place of love and respect. I may be wrong in my assessment of the impact of what I was saying, and I may have been clumsy and unclear in my expression. But please know my intention was/is to contribute to making our little game world more loving and more respectful.

I am truly sorry for all the ways that I have failed in fulfilling my own intentions.

Sincerely,

Roled and
Roled’s player

This should have been attached to Tessra's quote of Roled's original post, as his intent was for clarification of that original.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 22, 2010, 04:12:16 am
Lovely post Tessra but most will not take the time to read it all... Shame, usually when it's something important or needs to be said that's when one has the most to say and when people are least likely to listen.

However, for the lazy people I shall pick out a few important points. I trust you'll ignore my comments on the matter but at least some of Tessra's will be highlighted.


1) I think a lot of the issues arose from people not realizing that it was ok to say no.  You never HAVE to do what someone else wants you to.  You never HAVE to be the way someone else wants you to be.  No one else should ever have that level of control over you; that is simply another form of god-modding. 
So very true, and might I add that the person being an otherwise good RPer still does not entitle them to being allowed to derail your character. People usually let good RPers bend the rules, but if you are uncomfortable, you have the right to walk out on the RP. Displeasure of another RPer won't kill you, ask noobs that don't use brackets. ;)


2) Unless you have met someone face to face, you cannot be sure who they are across the internet.  There is no way to know for sure how old someone is in this game, and the PG/PG-13 rules are in place to protect minors from being exposed to things that can be both too mature, and potentially disturbing to them.  People may claim to be 18 or older, and in reality be very young.
Very important to keep in mind. Might I also stick out that tolerating inappropriate behavior will make PS more attractive to predators and can worsen the problem exponentially. You might consider it kiddy to hold back but keep in mind that you only going so far doesn't people from keep pushing past you and go father and farther. Best to leave a clear line in the sand to prevent things from going to far in the first place. We all know some folks can't self regulate. ;) And the last thing we want is for PS to become a predator's sandbox. Goodness knows, even I still care about the game enough to not want that to happen. Verden is quite right.


I do not think it [sex RPs] should ever become a common event, or used as "filler" when someone cannot think of anything better to do.  Others in this thread have mentioned writing "events" without ever describing the details.  I personally find this to be a wonderful way to give one's character development, without pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable to write in a game.  There have been a few times when myself and those I was writing with have agreed to "not and say we did."  It is entirely possible for two characters to be in a romantic relationship without ever writing intimate scenes.  Part of that involves talking to the player of the character you are writing with, and deciding what you are both comfortable with, and what you both wish to gain from the RP.  If both people are not happy, then it is not going to be a fun, productive RP.
\\o// thank you... very salient point here. Sex has become more important than other aspects of the romance and it seems more than the overall RP, thus throwing off the balance and messing with the story. Let me reference a sources that back you up here.

Here's the TVTropes Wiki on Romantic Plot Tumor (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RomanticPlotTumor):
Quote
Love is a powerful emotion. It can completely change the way a character acts and thinks. It can be used to create drama, comedic relief, or suspense. Maybe the writer just wants to tug at the audience's heart in a way he couldn't with the rest of the story. Whatever the reason for introducing it, love is a powerful weapon in storytelling that can also make the audience feel okay with abrupt, arbitrary sex scenes.

However, like most weapons, a love story can be deadly in the wrong hands. Sometimes, a writer gets so caught up in wringing every last drop of blood out of their romantic stone that they forget they have a compelling A-story to tell. This results in a Romantic Plot Tumor: a comparatively weak romantic sub-plot overtakes the potentially more interesting main plot.
Think Padme and Anakin's romance in the new Star Wars movies and you have the prototypical example.


My biggest actual concern with the sex RP, is not that it happens, but more the focus that is placed upon it.  The point of this game is not to come in and have intimate scenes every night, over and over again.  So much of the actual fun of this game, and its RP possibilities are lost within a constant need and desire for sex RP.

Yep... more or less, this is the point of the Romantic Plot Tumor article... Bigger and better things can get lost because of the weaker romance subplot.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: sashia_mennar on August 22, 2010, 04:52:57 am
I know for a fact certain events took place within the recent long form role play were NOT agreed upon nor discussed in advance.

Truly said, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Or, in our case, like a woman who blew the best chance ever in her whole life.

All that said, I have kind of pity for you, Tess. Please don't make me go to the GMs, I don't want to. And I honestly think you should apologize to Roled. What you did to him, was a very bad thing, in my personal OOC opinion.

Roled, I'm sorry. I didn't know who was behind all this. Now I know... and I'm sorry, again.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: bloodedIrishman on August 22, 2010, 05:02:15 am
lolwut
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 22, 2010, 05:05:33 am
Ditto... I know lack of knowledge of the RP is part of what keeps that from making sense, but it seems like it's bouncing back and forth between being OOC and IC. ???
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Tessra on August 22, 2010, 05:39:17 am
@ verden: You are correct, and in this case, it is the ultimate decision of the developers, and talad to establish the rules the rest of us are expected to follow.  However, I would assert that it is possible to enforce rules without judging the person infracting them.  And let's face it, I'm no angel, so I'm not about to throw stones.  ;)  

@ Eelin:  No, I was directly replying to both Roled and troyyer; therefore, I quoted troyyer's post, which contained them both.  I also stated that I was in agreement with the initial points Roled made, and with most of the edits.  It is not Roled's responsibility to control the assumptions or connotations people make based upon valid, non-specific points made.  If people make assumptions, or jump to conclusions, that is for them to bear the weight of.  

@ Illysia: Hehe, I do get verbose, don't I?  Thank you for hitting the main points for me. :D

@ Sashia: I admit to being a bit confused by your post.  The particular line you quoted does refer to certain events, but I have not mentioned who was in them, or the details thereof, so I do not see how it could be construed as scornful or angry, without the reader making an assumption.  Nor do I intend to deliver such personal details on a forum at large.  I wish you all the best, and I hope you make the most of the chance you have now.  

It sounds somewhat threatening when you say "Please don't make me go to the GMs."  I'm not really sure what exactly you would tell them that I haven't already.      

I am very unclear as to what I have done to Roled.  If anything I have said in game, or written on this forum appears to be unflattering to him atall, then I can assure you it was a typo on my behalf, or a simple misunderstanding by the reader.  I hold Roled in the highest esteem, and consider him one of my closest friends in this game, and would do nothing to impact him negatively in anyway.
/me fails at lurkdom
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 22, 2010, 06:21:51 am
@ Illysia: Hehe, I do get verbose, don't I?  Thank you for hitting the main points for me. :D

No prob :thumbup: I get that way myself.


/me fails at lurkdom
Hehe... so hard ain't it? ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 22, 2010, 06:26:50 am
...but I have not mentioned who was in them, or the details thereof, so I do not see how it could be construed as scornful or angry

True, not here on this thread.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: novacadian on August 22, 2010, 06:33:16 am
@ Illysia: Hehe, I do get verbose, don't I?  Thank you for hitting the main points for me. :D

Not at all Tessra! Your post was read from beginning to end with great interest and full clarity! Illysia's, on the other hand, was simply skipped.

- Nova


Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 22, 2010, 06:36:24 am
Love you too you Nova. ;)
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: bloodedIrishman on August 22, 2010, 06:42:31 am
I have never seen a guy cat fight a girl like novacadian does to Illysia. That type of passive-aggressive battle usually goes on between women.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Illysia on August 22, 2010, 06:55:12 am
Maybe he likes me. :love: ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 22, 2010, 07:31:47 am
:sniff-sniff:

Do you smell that?

Smells like an oncoming...f...fl...flam...hic!
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sangwa on August 22, 2010, 04:00:15 pm
Some people are very preoccupied with how RP is being lead in-game. However:

Speaking only as a single member of the GM team I feel ANY kind f rape RP is totally unacceptable. I don't care how much all the parties say it was planed, agreed to and consensual. I think if such an RP is brought to the attention of the GM team then everyone involved should be looking at a ban, especially if the details of the rape are acted out. Again just one GM's opinion but if need be I'll push hard that my view is acted on if the situation comes up.

Instead of expecting GM's to guess where things are going wrong, try reporting and seeing what happens. Being repetitive works around here. They'll get so bothered with it one day, they'll try to solve things one way or the other and then we'll have a good answer.
Also, try to create plots or motivate other people to create them to give people an alternative to their primitive instincts.

So pipe down and get to work. Your wasting time here when you could be helping me with the Historic Poetry (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37911.msg431932#new) thing.

EDIT: Shortened post. Added advertisement.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Zytorr on August 22, 2010, 04:57:26 pm
Your points are exactly right on Tessra.


from Eelin:
"This should have been attached to Tessra's quote of Roled's original post, as his intent was for clarification of that original."


from Tessra:
 "You never HAVE to do what someone else wants you to.  You never HAVE to be the way someone else wants you to be.  No one else should ever have that level of control over you; that is simply another form of god-modding."


yes indeed ... just another form of god-modding.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Eelin on August 22, 2010, 06:15:37 pm
yes indeed ... just another form of god-modding.

Coming from someone who has such a clear grasp of God-modding, I suppose I should be humbled.

(14:19:54) Qata says: Leicace is a daughter of Xiosia. The goddess has much concern for her well being and has instructed me to evaluate this ring for possibl adverse magic
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sangwa on August 22, 2010, 06:37:05 pm
God-modding only exists if there are people dumb enough to play along. It's easy to make a god-modder's character pass as fool with ridiculous pretensions. In fact, it's easy to do that even with a truly great character.

Players who flood the main chat with obvious incoherences are liable to be reported to GMs, I think, for trolling. And if it's not abusive, it's no biggy. Most of us have this powerful jedi trick of ignoring idiots. Try to use it, it accomplishes what I mentioned in my first paragraph.

So breath in, breath out and bear with each other. If you want soap operas though, we have plenty of threads waiting for participation at Hydlaa's Plaza. Hell, we have beef going on there.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 22, 2010, 07:24:24 pm
I know I'm a bit late commenting on this, but I just wanted to post my total agreement with Tessra on this.  I don't want to go and paste a quote of that whole post, Tessra  :P But you bring up many solid points, with good logic and reasoning behind them... 

I took the time to read the whole post, lengthy as it was... NOT verbose  ;D   And I can only hope others take the time to do the same, it makes for good reading.. :)


from Tessra:
"You never HAVE to do what someone else wants you to.  You never HAVE to be the way someone else wants you to be.  No one else should ever have that level of control over you; that is simply another form of god-modding."

Letting another player or character dictate the character and personality and actions of your character is completely against the spirit of RP.  Allow your character to develop on his or her own, and allow the actions of that character to make sense for the personality of that character, not the wishes or desires of another player or character.  Well said, Tessra, well said... Thank you for posting :)
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 22, 2010, 07:34:52 pm
Oh, the god-mod messiness. Let's see here...

*lets out a sigh before pulling out an old sheet of dusty paper, blowing the accumulation off and writing the following on it:

Geoni's Guide to Dealing With a Godmodder

Catch the godmodder in action:

Step 1: Screenshot the god-mod along with /report [godmodder].
Step 2: report to GM by sending the screenshot via PM, and also making a petition.
Step 3: Ignore player until he/she apologizes and realizes the violation they performed.

Once these steps have been followed through correctly, there should be consequences:

strike 1: Warning
strike 2: Player should be banned for at least a week if not more.
strike 3: "You're out!"

*Places the sheet down where everybody can see it and blabbers, "Well, the consequences are of my own innovation, and not of those who should be enforcing such things.  ;) I doubt such consequences would ever be dealt. All's said and done, this paper is legible."

Oh, and if somebody doesn't like being called a godmodder and they says something like, "What's a godmod is an opinion!" Then this should be known: Godmodding is deciding the actions for others. May that be actions of their characters or actions of the players. Now, somebody telling somebody to do something with their character can be argued not to be godmodding since they can't force this to happen, though if a person lets somebody else decide what their characters should be for, then they are the gullible ones who let themselves be godmodded.  Remember what you have been taught to say to drugs? Well the same goes for godmodding, meta-gaming, and powergaming. These drugs ruin a society just as much as drugs do in real life, so snitching is not being a weakling, it's being a cleaner and an enforcer.

Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sangwa on August 22, 2010, 08:06:59 pm
Tessra has credit for knowing. But she's not original: these discussions came to an end with the RP Covenant (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34508.0). Respect your fellow player covers all that.

We're not requiring further explanation of explained concepts. We're requiring their application.

Geoni, God-Modding is only a true offence if it reaches trolling levels. Else it's just an innocent mistake. I'd advise doing the following:

Obvious Trolling:
Domination of chat with incoherent, insistent, unable to be ignored mockery.
Report to GM. He'll know what to do.

Example:
Code: [Select]
Robert says: I will own you all, weaklings!
Robert shoots pure energy from all his pores, killing all those in sight.
Sangwa laughs the crazy dude.
Robert jumps to the ceiling and sticks there with his arachnid powers Talad gave him. He keeps pumping energy, killing puny Sangwa.
Sangwa says: (Dude, you're crazy, I'll report you.)
Robert says: Hahahah, I can all!
Robert turns into Talad, implodes the house and then puts it back in its place, erasing the people there from existance.
(repeats these types of action ad nauseum)[/i]

Ignorant's Tweaking/Goddmodding
Usual overpowered remark, emoting other characters, etc.
Just ignore or treat person as a lunatic character. Then /tell that person how things are usually done.

Example:
Code: [Select]
Robert punches Sangwa in the mouth for no apparent reason, blowing his teeth to pieces.
Sangwa gets punched in the face and bleeds a bit from the corner of his mouth. His teeth are as lovely as always though.
Sangwa tells Robert: Sorry, but it's my character. I decide what happens to him.
Robert tells Sangwa: Oh, but I am uber powerful leet?
Sangwa tells Robert: You could be Talad.
Robert tell Sangwa: Fair enough. I love you.

EDIT: Resumed things. Maybe that slacker will read it now, he seems to be the type that needs.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Catlemur on August 22, 2010, 08:17:06 pm
I did not read anything but I will still say this:  ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: verden on August 22, 2010, 08:33:35 pm
The god modding angle makes it sound like we are blaming the victim. And if the victim is a nine year old kid, for whom nothing bad had happened in RP ever before, then it must be their fault right? I find light treatment of this subject to be disgusting. As is the cowardliness of refusing to judge characters that promote and engage in such scenarios. Anyone within earshot of my character who engages in this sort of behavior is getting reported, and I will agitate to the GM team for a proper resolution. If the situation involves a minor player and the parents get involved and escalate it, then don't worry... its not like having to hear I told you so is so bad, at that point.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Tessra on August 22, 2010, 10:19:16 pm
Rather than typing something else out, here is what I said before:

"But, if I were younger, less experienced, and less jaded about certain things, I might very easily find myself playing along with certain RP situations simply because I wouldn't want to make the other people mad.  I have seen people, adults older than myself, in the few months I've been here, doing things they were uncomfortable with, simply because they felt they had no choice.  I might not worry for a grown man/woman, but I would have serious worries for a 9 year old, like one of the forum members I noticed.  I've made a few people mad, and been yelled at, cursed at and harassed in game [IC and OOC] and out of the game [OOC, obviously].  I can take that, but there are people who play this game who should never be exposed to that manner of behavior.  Children play here, and if I ever saw someone treating one of them the way I was treated, you bet your happy operating systems I would be reporting like crazy.  Under NO circumstances should that be tolerated by us as players.  The GMs don't see everything, and Roled is right.  It is our responsibility to report such things."

I agree with you, verden.  I never meant to imply that the victims should be blamed, merely that adults should take responsibility for themselves, and that all should attempt to ensure the children here be protected to the best of our abilities.   
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Roled on August 22, 2010, 10:40:43 pm
If I may quote myself...


It's the 'blame the victim' defense that I find reprehensible. ***edited***  I am honored that I have female character friends in this game, and I assume some of them to actually be female. Tho' I don't know. But think about it , who are the demographic playing this game? What is the likelihood that you DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA who that person is really, how old they are really, whether they are young but think they are old enough to handle a role play that turns a blurred line between IC and OOC.

3) It is the Responsibility of each of us to protect players from predators.


Act like human beings instead of sociopaths.

Roled Rolak

It is encouraging to see the maturity level of these response rise as the severity of the issues become clearer. Thank you Tess for speaking out. Thank you each speaker who has written intelligent, well reasoned and humane responses.

God- modding that you have energy beams coming out of your fingertips is one thing- annoying but innocuous. Pressuring others to participate in role play actions that are beyond acceptable limits for a PG-13 is quite another, as several of us have pointed out.

RR


Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Falcon Avian on August 22, 2010, 10:53:28 pm
Quote
God- modding that you have energy beams coming out of your fingertips is one thing- annoying but innocuous. Pressuring others to participate in role play actions that are beyond acceptable limits for a PG-13 is quite another, as several of us have pointed out.

So when you use things like energy arrow it's godmodding?  ;D
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Tessra on August 22, 2010, 11:41:56 pm
Nooooo.... but maybe when you make my own shadow turn against me...  :P
/me huggles Falcon
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Caraick on August 23, 2010, 12:55:54 am
Nooooo.... but maybe when you make my own shadow turn against me...  :P
/me huggles Falcon


hehehe this reminds me of my complaint about there only being DW buffing weapons  >:( ...... ;D But I'm scared if I post any more complaints, I'll end up on the PS Community Awards as the biggest whiner  :woot: So it's  :-X for now...
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sangwa on August 23, 2010, 01:05:34 am
Wait, you guys got me lost. Specially because you keep typing in here. Are you still confused?

About improper content: a GM has already made it clear that adult content is to be reported (be it pressured or not, it's just as harmful), so no need for cackling. Just report it on sight.

About godmodding (ignoring settings and etiquette) GM's have been acting right towards this since 1 or 2 years back. Report it when abusive.

You guys have all the solutions you need since page 4. No more observations please. I hate to see so many pats on the back, and so much drama because those sentimentalisms disgust me in something as sterile as internet forums.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Geoni on August 23, 2010, 01:57:34 am
Refresh me on what's so sterile about the PS forum.
Title: Re: Some observations
Post by: Sangwa on August 23, 2010, 02:23:49 am
Exactly what I'm complaining about. We can get all sorts of mental illness from this unclean mess.