PlaneShift
Support => Complaint Department => Topic started by: mikeloeven on September 15, 2010, 04:23:56 pm
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noone cares about this and noone ever will execpt perhaps the npc guards and a gm who has an itchy ban finger. this is a rather new installment in a long list of restrictions that have stripped the fun out of the game and why i have stopped playing for months on end waiting out the storms and hoping things will get better.
if there must be such a rule than make it a reasionable one such as no dueling or guild wars within city limits without prior planning and express permision of a gm
also do not allow gm's to ban players for violating RP laws allow the other players to deal with the person on an rp level (throwing in jail or confescation of weapon, or have the guards give them a fine)
1 as long as there are rogues wandering the streets people will carry weapons inside the cities
2 it takes time to unequip weapons and alot of players are lazy and just passing through
3 noone cares
4 the guards are just annoying
5 in mideval times everyone was armed and no crime can be comitted unless you actually choose to attack another player not to mention that you cannot attack quest npc's so the point is moot
6 untill this rule is removed players may run the risk of being banned for acting out RP's
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1) what have rogues on streets outside the city to do with weapons in the city?
2) just make a shortcut: /dequip lefthand /dequip righthand and bind it to a key. it takes a split second to hit it - not really that hard, is it?
3) many care
4) how so?
5) you can attack quest NPCs - at least some of them
6) you aren't banned just like that for wearing a weapon. if you're reported to a guard and the guard catches you, you'll be put in jail, get a fee, ...
that put aside, it's perfectly possible to play wearing weapons in the city out, you just have to be able to cope with the consequences (e.g. a guard going after you if someone reports it)
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1 The rules applies to Hydlaa. No rogues there.
2 Make shortcuts.
3 I do. Very. My character feels decidedly unsafe when shopping near strangers waving swords.
4 One sentence at each passing? Not more text than otehr NPC greetings.
5 Armed does not mean carring your sword in you hand all the time. Very inconvenient also if you need your hands for doing other things. ;)
6 Who said anything about banning? Your char might be tossed in an RP prison for some time for RPing a crime.
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Everyone makes generalizations.
You may not yet have played long enough to have been caught by a patrol of the Hydlaa Guards ... yes, Game Masters sometimes have enough spare time to go on patrol; and they will put you in jail for not putting weapons away.
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I would suggest editing the Octarchal Decree to include this as a law. The way things are now this is just a norm enforced by some guards, that we don't even know if is a law or the guards are just having a bad day.
I'd say it would fit nicely under Privileges of the People. We do have a law that says that everyone needs to be armed (does not naturally mean with weapons, no) at all times, why not just edit it from "VIII. All citizens must be always prepared to protect themselves and defend their property." to "VIII. All citizens must be always prepared to protect themselves and defend their property, but not in a way as to cause sedition."
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Citizens should be allowed to carry arms, as they are, yet to keep the peace in order they shouldn't be allowed to wield them in public. That is my understanding of the Octarch's reasoning.
The 'no weapons drawn' law inside Hydlaa city limits is a reasonable rule for a city under the control of a government as strict as the Octarchy.
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Exactly my point, my dear irishman. I'm just saying make it really officially strict by editing the law with a few words.
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Exactly my point, my dear irishman. I'm just saying make it really officially strict by editing the law with a few words.
i would be willing to play along provided RP jailing is actually RP jailing that can be done by anyone and not just that BS where a gm teleports you into a holding cell for a set ammount of RL time.
the game is more fun if you can have legitimate conflicts with the guards and if god forbid you are jailed i am sure there is someone around who can slip a lock pick into a loaf of bread for you and than seduce the guard into heading off to his bedchambers with her while you flee;)
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You may not yet have played long enough to have been caught by a patrol of the Hydlaa Guards ... yes, Game Masters sometimes have enough spare time to go on patrol; and they will put you in jail for not putting weapons away.
My experience is that the guards are very understanding though. My character received three warnings from them on a single encounter. That is they told her three times to put her weapons down and still did not drag her off to jail. It was another story for Ahriman (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37921.0). ;)
- Nova
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If a GM guard knows how to roleplay, they will stick to IC information. You may be able to talk your way out of being arrested, or even succede in a jail break. My character (Rigwyn) was accused in public of killing someone (Garosan). The GM (Sarva) who played the guard knew well that my character was a black flame member and a mass murdered, however Sarva stuck to using IC information only and allowed my charcter to talk his way out of being arrested. Rigwyn had an argumet that held up - even though it was full of lies. Personally I think Sarva (the player) would have enjoyed seeing my character get destroyed.. but Sarva did not act on personal desires.
Would a GM like Sarva, Venalan, Marathal or Daxa, who knows how to RP allow a jail break? Dont know but its certainly worth a try. Just dont expect them to play dumb. Hydlaa guards are not supposed to be stupid or gullable. Accept your consequences and role play every aspect of your character's life.
Now if you get arrested by a guard thats played by a GM who is clueless about RP then you are out of luck. You will most likely get banned.
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There are exceptions (like repairing and carrying heavy weight). -- Hopefully all GMs know such reaons. ;)
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How many people ran around London in the 1400s with their swords out during normal day activities? none..
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You are allowed to wear weapons in the city (on your person), you just are not allowed to waltz around town with one in your hand. Also:
1) Wouldn't it be rather rude to the person you're talking to for you to be holding a big axe/... in your hands while talking to them in casual conversation?
2) I don't think there are monsters in Hydlaa proper these days (unless that Clacker in East Hydlaa is still about...)
3) NPC guards sooner or later will get the ability to deal with this sort of stuff on their own, so be forewarned...
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I agree. And no, the Clacker is not around anymore.
There are two things I do wonder however.
1. I read somewhere here about melee weapons (iron fist, spiked gloves, etc. etc.). When (or if) these things gets implemented, would they be regarded as armor, weapons, or will that depend on what slot it sits in?
2. Will these NPC guards deal with people carrying magic staffs in the same way as someone wielding an axe? Right now they are, shouting at them to remove their weapons. I see this as sort of pointless.
Given that magic staffs are not meant to be used as a polearm, because they hurt people less than your fist alone does. That does not imply, however, that if you are a skilled fistfighter, you should be allowed to carry around swords or axes which you are clueless on how to use. You can still at least hurt yourself while running with them :detective:
Defensive spells (and in some cases also charm spells) are allowed within the walls, so I don't see why a magic staff shouldn't be.
And yes, a lumberjack would need an axe, but there's a difference in reinforced battle axes and a farmer's axe ;)
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Ah... such a shame to see a push to make PS more bland... generic... like every other non RP MMO. The point of the rule is that it is an RP rule meant to be considered from the standpoint of story continuity and not from the standpoint of the mechanics. Also, to say no one cares is either a stretch or a very sad commentary on the state of the RP community. Since, by settings, the guards patrol (doesn't matter whether or not the NPCs move or not) there shouldn't be need for the weapons in the city. The argument that you need it because of other players feeds into the the whole "RP is dead" mantra. Not paying attention to settings is bad RP. You can only... bah, forget it. no sense in writing up an explanation the size of the declaration of independence when next to no one who is actually in game will read it.
Go ahead, shuck it... and shuck the notion that PS is an RP game too. There may be RPers in it but the game is not really being taken in that direction anymore. They might as well get rid of the stuff that only makes sense in an RP context.
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Oh gawsh, THIS---^
It is futile to argue that the guards shouldn't tell you to sheathe your weapons in hydlaa, it would also be a good idea for them to do the following:
*Jefectra points to mikeloeven, "You sir, please use common sense."
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Just so everyone knows, this law is not -just- in Hydlaa. It states in the Octarchy Decree that no fighting or weapons are allowed in the city walls of any Octarchy city (all of Yliakum) It matters on Zeroping because you wouldn't do that in real life (walking around New York with two massive Claymores, and not get arrested. Would ya?) I have no problem about people fighting in cities on EZPCUSA.
I do have an idea of having an option (just for the baddies aswel) that your weapons automatically get sheathed once gone passed the guards. It would be an option in the 'Options' tab on the Tool Bar.
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Ojaveda is not likely to be able to enforce this law due to being under quarrantine. Akkaio presumeably is cut off from most internal resources including government and guards(citizen patrols is not the same as guards) and lets not forget the rogue foothold in the warehouse district which implies that there is room for interpretation. Also, akkaio must be fairly rough anyway considering the broken doors smack dab in the middle and by settings a rowdy place without raising any special attention from the guards. This might explain the stick up Bhurral's.... anywho, the place should be in a state of semi chaos and thus leaves room for more law breaking... mind you, don't let Bhurral catch you jaywalking or she'll turn around and beat you with the aforementioned stick. ;)
In gug, the boundaries of the city aren't walled in thus when to sheath weapons is more open to debate.
So yes it technically applies everywhere but there are places where the rules are more... flexible, to give people options. ;)
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But Kore Dsar is now open, allowing a massive military effort to reduce weapons and rogues in cities.... oh, whoops, it's empty. Bummer.
Anyway Illysia, any smart player can tell you that the only NPCs that tell you to sheath your weapons are in Hydlaa. The rule therefore only applies in Hydlaa. It's more to do with Hydlaa being the capital city of Yliakum, I think.
But since I'm not even a prospect, you can't trust my word on it.... heck, I'm even on PlaneShift's "blacklist" now. Or should I say, Talad's "blacklist".
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Ojaveda is not likely to be able to enforce this law due to being under quarrantine. Akkaio presumeably is cut off from most internal resources including government and guards(citizen patrols is not the same as guards) and lets not forget the rogue foothold in the warehouse district which implies that there is room for interpretation. Also, akkaio must be fairly rough anyway considering the broken doors smack dab in the middle and by settings a rowdy place without raising any special attention from the guards. This might explain the stick up Bhurral's.... anywho, the place should be in a state of semi chaos and thus leaves room for more law breaking... mind you, don't let Bhurral catch you jaywalking or she'll turn around and beat you with the aforementioned stick. ;)
In gug, the boundaries of the city aren't walled in thus when to sheath weapons is more open to debate.
So yes it technically applies everywhere but there are places where the rules are more... flexible, to give people options. ;)
Well I know that. I was once told to sheath my weapons by Luu in Ojaveda and I was like LOL (OOC I was like lol of course).
I was more referring to Gugrontid :)
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... It states in the Octarchy Decree that no fighting or weapons are allowed in the city walls of any Octarchy city (all of Yliakum) ...
Partially true. It states "No duel is to occur in the towns of Yliakum except within an area designated for such combat. If no such area is dedicated in a given town or city, duelists shall be required to leave the town or city to fight in the wilderness."
The book does not say anything about weapons being unsheathed. As I've said before I think that it should, either as a small edit to Law VIII, or it could also be edited into Law XXV to make it a low law and not just a privilege of the people.
Something like "XXV. No aggressive spells shall be cast inside of the town unless used in the defense of the town. (edit) This also applies for aggressive behavior in the sense of unsheathing weapons and pointing them at people."
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Ahhh yes, I couldn't remember the wording right sorry. But yes I agree with you. No weapons should be sheathed in the cities or towns of Yliakum... Bu then how do I patrol ???
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Yes, there are a few paradoxes that comes with this. Yours about patrolling is one, the other one is what happens if you meet a villain?
The villain is hungry for a battle, and since he doesn't follow the law anyway he will attack you inside the city gates.
Are you then permitted to try and rid the city of this villain right then and there, given that you are defending your own life? Or should you flee out of the gates and hope that the attacker follows you?
Of course, this could've been handled with NPCs being more enforcing, and also more mobile. So it might be fixed in the end. But right now it stays as a paradox.
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Well I would say if you get attacked in the middle of a plaza, would you run to the wilderness or country side? no, you would use self defence.
Well since guards are allowed weapons drawn then I am sure you can get a 'permit' to do so while patrolling and whatnot.
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There are exceptions (like repairing and carrying heavy weight). -- Hopefully all GMs know such reaons. ;)
well you will probibally be standing next to a forge near harnquists while doing the aformentioned activities so unless you are doing somthing stuipid like trying to forge a dagger in the tavern's fireplace it is pretty obvious
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If you are inside Harn's shop then having a weapon out to repair it is OK. Having a sed weapon drawn to carry a heavy load is not an allowable exception to the weapons drawn rule.
No player has been banned for having weapons drawn. Normally the guards will give you two or three warnings to put your weapons away or else. If you ignore the third warning then sometimes the guards will freeze you and impress upon you again the need to put your weapons away. If you have a very bad attitude towards the guards at this point you might be transported to the jail where if the person is a noob the guards will talk to them about the laws of Hydlaa about weapons. If it is an experienced player then they might get a fine or maybe a day in jail.
Now if you don't RP being in jail then we will ban you for walking out of your cell or dying to escape via the DR but I haven't seen that happen yet.
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I sometimes do carry sed weapons to carry larger loads. What I do is state in my description that my longswords are not equipped. and remind players when they tell me to put them away.
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Saying in your description that your sed swords are not equipped when they clearly are isn't going to work with a GM guard. As said before there is no exception for sed weapons to the no weapons drawn in the city rule.
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Saying in your description that your sed swords are not equipped when they clearly are isn't going to work with a GM guard. As said before there is no exception for sed weapons to the no weapons drawn in the city rule.
I have had this conversation with Perlan when he tried to get smart at me. He went to a GM and complained I was in the right. So it is another 'everyone has there own opinions'.
If you are wearing Heavy Armor and you say you're wearing a nice leather top, that's not allowed?
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Wearing armor in the city isn't illegal. Having weapons drawn in the city is illegal. If you have weapons in your hands in the city it is illegal no matter what it says in your Desc. Having sed weapons n your hand and trying to say via your Desc that you don't have weapons in your hand would be OOC.
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I was meaning you are wearing Heavy Armor and in your desc you say you are wearing a nice leather dress or whatever. Or in another case you have a longsword drawn but in your description it says you are holding a glass bottle or what ever.
What I am saying is that you have your Seduction Weapons in hand OOCly, because you have Dakkrus Curse OOCly, because you died OOCly by a bug. In that case you can say in your description that your seductions are not drawn ICly. It is just my opinions and that is what I agree with.
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I'd like if the effect that seduction weapons have could be moved to other items. Rings, bracers etc.
Having weapon drawn in the city looks ugly, disturbs some people when they see it (and you can't read the description, when someone just runs past). I agree that it's a matter where there are several opinions, but since some people aren't able to accept decisions that are against their own will, we should try to find a workaround where possible.
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I do like that idea there Sen. The game use to allow you to look Seduction armours and helms. I do think that has been taken out since.
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I think your right, i hate the no-weapon rule.
Once when i was walking along Hydlaa I saw a pack of Green Arangmas inside the city wandering around. So what are we supposed to do? just stand there and get eaten.... Or run away? Since it is illegal to wield weapons. <=== Guards are supposed to keep the city safe and instead there are groups of these things inside killing noobs. Also it is silly because magic isn't banned and someone could easily cast a spell and imediatley kill a person, you can cast spells long range aswell, making it easier not to get caught at all.
Also there are some "bad guys" who are in the city walls, taking your money and killing you (2 months ago at least, there were MANY killings). I don't think my character would be comfortable walking around hydlaa without a weapon, thank god she knows magic! But what about the noobies? are they just supposed to be killed without a fight? and where were the guards during this time? They just appear when somoene is finally killed, or the event has ceased, and what do they do? write notes.
IMO weapons should be allowed to be wielded IG just for now, until there are actually more gurads to help the city get safer (Or actually moving guards, its just silly when a murder was held infront of Jefecra).
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Read the Octarchal decree offensive magic is also against the law inside of cities.
Yes if Mobs have been lead inside the city you can kill the mobs. Mobs inside the city are OOC since the guards would stop them IC'ly. Also in a case of self defense you can draw your weapons and defend yourself.
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IMO weapons should be allowed to be wielded IG just for now, until there are actually more gurads to help the city get safer (Or actually moving guards, its just silly when a murder was held infront of Jefecra).
From just that bit of info, sounds like bad RP to me, as it is totally ignoring the fact the NPC is there.
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funny to see that the Planeshift community still has the same landlord attitude of ruling each other what to wear. will there be also a rule that forbids to walk without pants in the cities?
:beta:
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Similarly, its funny to see people who can't understand the concept of in-character.
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Yes if Mobs have been lead inside the city you can kill the mobs. Mobs inside the city are OOC since the guards would stop them IC'ly. Also in a case of self defense you can draw your weapons and defend yourself.
So you're saying about 2 weeks before I was banned a bunch of Ulbernauts, Mulbernauts, Velnaut, and Consumers. So happen to appear in the fountain in Hydlaa Plaza. If GMs want to make an event on monsters attacking Hydlaa you might want to get a few Hydlaa Guard characters out of the closets. :)
@Maisent, if anyone threatens you or anything you are allowed weapons drawn for self defence. Or if you are a innocent person you would shout out for a guard and OOCly /tell a GM to come on a Hydlaa Guard alt. The reason why they have the rule is to stop baddies from running around killing people, to make them look more obvious.
Similarly, its funny to see people who can't understand the concept of in-character.
Lol
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Similarly, its funny to see people who can't understand the concept of in-character.
Funny is not quite the right word. :(
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If there were more enforcement on this rule, then the amount of deaths due to choking will skyrocket.
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Muggins would raise too, compliments of the local taverns ;D