PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Roled on October 03, 2010, 10:26:03 am
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Tyler Clementi, a new student at Rutger's in the USA, jumped to his death after his roommate and another dorm mate posted a video
taken without his knowledge, showing him and another male having sex.
May the Great Compassion hold him, and his family, and his partner, and even the room/ dorm mates, in her arms of forgiveness.
This report has upset me greatly, I will share two reasons and sets of question here that I think are relevant to our forum community.
One is bullying. Calling people names, putting people down, offering vague threats. And yes, it happens here, in our own little world. What on earth
made those roommate, dorm mates think that was acceptable? Or even funny? Is there something in this somewhat anonymous world of the forums,
that sometimes gives us the feeling of freedom to bypass ethics and decent, humane behavior towards each other?
How can we help each other, as a community, overcome this insidious form of aggression?
Second is homophobia and civility. In our little test tube, we have I am sure folks of all gender definitions, and all sexual identifications. But do we accept each
as full members of this fantasy community? Does suspecting that a player might be gay or lesbian, trans or bi, or questioning, or queer, affect our game play
with each others avatars? How can we prevent the feeling of being outside for new members coming to play in this little world with us? How can we welcome
without alienation? How can we more fully accept each others characters in a full and diverse society playground?
"Let us work for the day when all people can love whom they love without threat of ridicule or violence." to quote Kate Lore, a Unitarian minister's post on FB
What do you think? Does our PS community here in the forums and/ or in game, see bullying and/or homophobia as a problem?
Thanks for your thoughts
Roled
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idc because neither issues affect me
this may sound bad, but i think the suicide was a bit of an overreaction. if you're embarrassed of something, don't do it. but if that's who you are, be confident about it. gawsh.
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People are different. One has issues with topics another doesn't mind at all. It is all about tolerance.
I remember from times of the original "Janner's Way" and "Ruby Reign" that there was a transsexual player, who completed the gender change in the meantime. - So what? Do I need to know that to enjoy the roleplaying? Characters may or may not be like their players. Does it matter?
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I used to be asexual (anti-sex), but I've always sheltered my homosexuality. Yes I am gay, if you have a problem with this you can just say whatever you want, I'll ignore you.
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idc because neither issues affect me
this may sound bad, but i think the suicide was a bit of an overreaction. if you're embarrassed of something, don't do it. but if that's who you are, be confident about it. gawsh.
qft. This applies to so many topics.
Also,
I used to be asexual (anti-sex)
Dictionary.com is a pretty cool guy when it comes to definitions
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Bah, I've never cared about whose got which sexual orientation. As one of the few actually good lessons my crazy father has offhandedly taught me
'be whatever sexual orientation you want, just dont go up in my face about it'
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In terms of the PS community, Roled; and with Role Playing in general; there is that common symptom known as Player's Bleed. On its lighter side this can be a player that always plays his/her alter ego. That is the best way to go if they cannot overcome it.
On the darker side, this could mean a player to player grudge moving into a character to character grudge; or biases that the player has showing up in the character. Perhaps that is what you are referring to.
It surprised me when first coming to PS that a player who was courting Venorel told me OOC that another female character that Venorel knew was being played by a male as if it made some kind of difference. It likely did to that player; which indicated to me that some may be taking as much pleasure from their character's courting as the characters.
If that is the case then the Player Bleed goes further in that sexual preferences of such Players dictates the relationships of their characters.
Without Player Bleed and in a perfect game world of total immersion all of that should not matter. Sadly this is not always the case and the prejudges of the real world is bound to seep over into PS'.
-- Nova
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I used to be asexual (anti-sex), but I've always sheltered my homosexuality. Yes I am gay, if you have a problem with this you can just say whatever you want, I'll ignore you.
wtf, does this mean i'm the last asexual player here? ....shit. thanks, geoni. :'(
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I used to be asexual (anti-sex), but I've always sheltered my homosexuality. Yes I am gay, if you have a problem with this you can just say whatever you want, I'll ignore you.
wtf, does this mean i'm the last asexual player here? ....shit. thanks, geoni. :'(
We can look into doing something about that if you like Sarras ;)
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Dictionary.com is a pretty cool guy when it comes to definitions
And so is UrbanDictionary.com http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=asexual
@Novacadian: This is an OOC question about the real world not PS and this "Player Bleed" theory seems off the topic. Super random much?
@Sarras: Sorry, I was totally asexual up to the point when I saw this really hot guy on TV the other day and magically, my testosterone seemed to work again. :-X
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@Novacadian: This is an OOC question about the real world not PS and this "Player Bleed" theory seems off the topic. Super random much?
You may take it as that Geomi, yet my point may have been missed; so let me lay it out for you more clearly.
If everyone was totally immersed in PS then Roled's point would be moot. However many players are not immersed and bring their real world baggage to the game. In the real world we see such insensitivity as Roled referred; so too should we expect it in PS from Player Bleeding players. To except it? Well that's another story.
- Nova
[Edit : Relevance to OT:
Does suspecting that a player might be gay or lesbian, trans or bi, or questioning, or queer, affect our game play
with each others avatars?
]
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I used to be asexual (anti-sex), but I've always sheltered my homosexuality. Yes I am gay, if you have a problem with this you can just say whatever you want, I'll ignore you.
wtf, does this mean i'm the last asexual player here? ....shit. thanks, geoni. :'(
That is sad call me if you will change your mind.
:devil:
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What do you think? Does our PS community here in the forums and/ or in game, see bullying and/or homophobia as a problem?
^ Geoni ;)
Also, there's the slight problem that urban dictionary is mostly made up :p
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@Drey: As is the English language, nub. :P
@Nova, yes, I have seen what you call "Players Bleeding" and yeah I think is relevant to some players. As for his last question, nobody has yet to answer it.
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I find this to be a horrible thing, Roled. Irregardless of someone's beliefs about sexuality and the like, what gives any person the right to record someone engaging in a private act and then display it to the world? Sarras, you say if you are embarrassed about something, not to do it, but what if this young man wasn't embarrassed? What if he had other life circumstances that prevented him from being open regarding his sexuality? What if his parents would be upset and he was trying to prevent issues there? People may assume that it's no big deal to be upfront and open about sexuality, but in America we still live in a society where men are assaulted for being gay or bisexual. There are very real concerns that would keep someone from wanting to blatantly display themselves in a compromising, adult situation.
I cannot speak for anyone else in the community but it does not matter to me if someone is straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual, trans-gender, questioning, queer or asexual. However, Nova brings up a good point with Player Bleed. Some people DO mind. Some people do find certain actions/behaviors to be distasteful in the least and downright nasty in the extreme, and because of that they WILL have a problem RPing with people they know that do them IRL. For me, there is a rather diverse group of people that I RP with in game, and many of them I consider to be my friends, at least "internet friends." There is not necessarily anything wrong with not wanting to be "friends" with someone who's actions you cannot abide, but it does go against the heart of the immersive experience, as your character does not know that X's player is "fill in the blank with whatever".
Does suspecting that a player might be gay or lesbian, trans or bi, or questioning, or queer, affect our game play
with each others avatars?
I can say honestly, for me it does. In my life experiences, people who are GLTBQA tend to be more open minded and friendlier to be around, so if I suspect the player is, I am sometimes more likely to try and find a way to write my character with them. It does not change how my characters will interact with theirs, but it might make me a bit more inclined to put the player on my buddy list and try to find them in game for a little RP.
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I had a long, rambling post at the ready, but...it's nearly one AM and I should be alseep. So I'll play it safe and keep this relatively short. Forgive me if it seems a little disjointed to those that've had their caffeine.
It's sickening to hear this story, and I'm happy that there seems to be a strong social and political movement in support of the GBLTQ community going on with us North Americans. As for bullying in general, I've been both victim and bully at times, and I admit it's a problem. I also believe, however, that it's a fact of life and won't go away any time soon - it happens among everyone from individuals to entire countries. The best we can do is try to prevent it, and extend a helping hand (and/or shield) to the victims where we can.
In the context of the internet, or more specifically the games and roleplay communities therein, I've found that the GBLQs (I don't think I've knowingly met any Ts or As thus far) are the most pleasant to (role)play with. They've taught me a great deal about both the games I've played and the GBLTQ community, whether directly or not, and I appreciate that immensely.
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ditto taphan
also, i get bothered when girls flirt with me, especially when they know i'm straight. even guys flirting with me is a little weird (yes, you, drey and catlemur), but that's simply how i am. just putting that out there. :-[ ;D
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Acceptance is the issue here, not peoples' sex lives. By the "keep-it-to-yourself" logic, Taphan, people should also keep it secret that they're married, and avoid wearing their rings. It's a sadly common attitude, and indicative of homophobia itself. Flip that around and think of how you'd react to someone saying "I'm okay with straight people, as long as they keep it to themselves and act gay." Would you be offended? I'm not asking for an answer to the question; just think about it.
As long as homophobia runs rampant, many GBLTQs will take the out and proud approach to show that they aren't ever going away, and the rest of the world's just going to have to learn to deal with that.
Besides, the question Roled is posing is, does it effect the way we treat others when we suspect others of being something other than straight, no actual knowledge of their real lives required.
And Sarras, just treat the girls that hit on you the same way you'd treat the guys whose attention you don't desire - let 'em know you're possibly flattered, if that happens to be the case, but definitely not interested.
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Acceptance is the issue here, not peoples' sex lives. By the "keep-it-to-yourself" logic, Taphan, people should also keep it secret that they're married, and avoid wearing their rings. It's a sadly common attitude, and indicative of homophobia itself. Flip that around and think of how you'd react to someone saying "I'm okay with straight people, as long as they keep it to themselves and act gay." Would you be offended? I'm not asking for an answer to the question; just think about it.
gay and straight aren't acts. what most people think of when they hear "acting gay" is some guy with tight jeans who tries to sound like a teenage girl. that's not gay. that's being a douchebag. and it's annoying as hell! if you're going to act like anything, please act like yourself. sexual orientations don't have impacts on personalities.
And Sarras, just treat the girls that hit on you the same way you'd treat the guys whose attention you don't desire
so, i should run away screaming "EEW!"? ok :D
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Just a few "optimistic opinions":
• No matter how "pervert" (in the best meaning of this term) you believe you may be ... there will always be other people who just like you that way. They may just be harder to find when they are no "majority".
• Being called "pervert" only means that they who say that are intolerant.
• Limits of tolerance are defined by the society. The society changes during the time. With enough efforts, minorities can become a normal, accepted part of it.
There have been several (sexual and similar) society revolutions in history. The latest important one in Germany, the "emancipation" movement during the late 70s and 80s, allowed women to get rid of the "Housewife" stereotype, and one of their most famous idols was the punk singer Nina Hagen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbDazQqc2SU); another "national educator" of Germany - who recently died - was Oswalt Kolle (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Oswalt+Kolle&aq=f). They started talking about the topic, like later Salt'n'Pepa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scm8WvcIxpY) in America. Talking about it is the first step towards tolerance.
"Gag Harmond" may not be the ultimate diplomat, but develops with his tasks.
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also, i get bothered when girls flirt with me, especially when they know i'm straight. even guys flirting with me is a little weird (yes, you, drey and catlemur), but that's simply how i am. just putting that out there. :-[ ;D
Can I flirt with you, Sarras? :woot: Can I?! Can I?! Sorry, sorry… :offtopic:
Now, our topic… I don't give a flying [censored] if someone is gay, straight, bisexual, asexual, pansexual, extraterrestrial or hermaphrodite, as long as they RP well. Mishka has lots of female friends IG, and I know some of them are guys IRL [Not telling who :P they know who they are]; and I do NOT care about it. Why? Simple : OOC info should not change your game experience. I learned that some time ago.
Now, my question… who's going to stop RPing with me knowing that I am bisexual?
Peace :)
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Don't worry Mishka... Candy and I will now hunt you down on all our alts and huggle you to pieces.
There probably were unsupportive circumstances to this poor young man's life that kept him from coming out about his sexuality. But the fact remains that there is a difference in being able to come out and have flamboyant displays of affection in public, and simply being able to be accepted for being the sexual orientation you happen to be. Most GLBTQAs that I know don't want to walk around making out with their partners in public. They simply want to be able to say that they have them, without getting looks, stares, threats, etc. Or in the case of Asexuals, to be able to say they are asexual without someone giving them a funny look for it.
It makes me sad that people feel they need to hide a crucial part of who they are simply because there are people who are unable to accept it. Let's face it. There are people in this game who would not write with someone if they found their sexual preferences to be disgusting. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but should it extend as far as hurting others because of bigotry? I don't know that I think it should go that far.
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There are people in this game who would not write with someone if they found their sexual preferences to be disgusting.
I would love to test this out and see if people /write/ with me now that many know I am gay. I doubt they won't.
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Can I flirt with you, Sarras? :woot: Can I?! Can I?! Sorry, sorry… :offtopic:
>:| (<-- that's my xordan face)
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There are people in this game who would not write with someone if they found their sexual preferences to be disgusting.
I would love to test this out and see if people /write/ with me now that many know I am gay. I doubt they won't.
K$sha wants to tell you something http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV4EmSviDfQ&feature=aso
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Look, I don't care what anybody says, you don't know the next player's gender and orientation unless you know them in person. What the hell does it matter if they says the are A, Bi, Tri, or whatever... Its means nothing. They could be lying .. and many do.
If you pigeon-hole yourself by claiming to be of a minority orientation, then too bad. That's your own stupid fault. If you can't take being shot at then don't strap a target to your chest. Duh.
As for this twit who jumped, that was his choice. Nobody made him do it. he got what he wanted, case closed. A better idea would have been to learn a little unconditional self-acceptance and then to get some revenge. Well, too late now.
You have to accept yourself as you are before you can expect other people to accept you. If you think that your orientation makes you dirty or wrong then you need to work on self-acceptance. Be yourself - even it if means being a dirty little freak.
Some folks are a-holes; Learn to deal with them effectively.
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As for this twit who jumped, that was his choice.
Well it was not his choice to post his intimate moments on the internet for all the world to see.
My feeling is that most people would not want such moments shared with the world; no matter their sexual orientation; let alone a young man that may be exploring his sexuality for the first time.
- Nova
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I agree that he had nothing to do with what led up to his decision to jump and that publishing that video was very wrong .. but ultimately the decision to jump was his idea, and his choice. Its erroneous to say that anyone made him do it, likewise the effort it must have taken for him to leap was probably quite significant.
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@Geoni: Those people who are truly your friends won't turn on you because they know. I really hope that the people you surround yourself with are kind and open-minded enough that you never have to face shunning in PS over your life.
@Sillamon: It seems a bit unfeeling to call him a twit simply because you disagree with his choice. We have no way of knowing that boy's circumstances. Or what his emotional state was. He could have been emotionally disturbed, or severely depressed before that video was taken an publicized. If he had any number of mental diseases that type of emotional trauma would have been almost impossible for him to cope with. I find it reprehensible that people would 1) think it alright to take a video of someone else in a private situation and publicize it and 2) act in such a way to make that boy feel like he could not face his family, friends, and the rest of his life.
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Point taken .. Its not nice to call someone a twit. :innocent:
@Geoni, I don't care if you chase barnyard animals ::| ;D ... your a fellow player. Period.
For those who have an issue with other's orientation ic or ooc, chances are you are more like that undesirable person than you think. The mind has some very funny ways of protecting you from your own dark secrets. Denial and displacement are quite common. ;)
Back on topic .. One has to ask about the fellow who taped this twit in the act.
How much of this did he watch?
Was bullying the kid perhaps a subconscious justification for watching this? :detective:
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The world is a mean and nasty place. If I was openly practicing my sexual preference I'd be scorned for it, no doubt.
Then again, I myself hold strong prejudice against others.
In the end, we're all just people who fear what we don't know.
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Yes I have dealt with some really shitty attitudes after coming out.
Yes I have accepted the nonacceptance.
Yes I used to be asexual, but it seems I've had a hormonal reawakening or something like that.
Yes I've always been a homo before being asexual for a while.
Yes I've been threatened constantly for being openly gay.
Yes I've got a "dirty" mind, but at least it's open.
Yes, I have accepted myself.
No, I haven't regretted a thing.
and no, I don't intend to chase barn animals. :P
The situation of Tyler Clementi was about many things, but the two important things that I interpreted from the suicide is that today's society needs to learn how to treat another person with privacy+decency, and that perhaps he killed himself in fear because of what people would do with him or how people would think about him because society as a majority is still that intolerant, especially in certain areas of the country and world. Everybody can't live in San Fran...
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but should it extend as far as hurting others because of bigotry?
No.
Was bullying the kid perhaps a subconscious justification for watching this?
No, there's a consciousness to this.
Now, my question… who's going to stop RPing with me knowing that I am bisexual?
Not me, I'd RP with anybody of any sexual orientation as long as the RP follows the rules and settings. I would RP with you but I'm no longer playing PS. If I ever come back I won't shun you though.
Sorry, seems I've repeated myself a bit in this post.
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Now, my question… who's going to stop RPing with me knowing that I am bisexual?
definitely me!
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Sarras...I'll get a homegurl on you...
Kick her ass Mishka!
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*kicks Sarras' ass, sending her to the Crystal!!*
And don't come back! And thanks to everyone who said they won't stop RPing with me :D mo samoti!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL83ttZ3_Ls
This guy says it more eloquently than I ever could.
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haters gonna hate
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL83ttZ3_Ls
This guy says it more eloquently than I ever could.
ya, he even goes as far as dressing like a woman ::|
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He passes decently until he talks...xD