PlaneShift

Gameplay => General Discussion => Topic started by: novacadian on October 20, 2010, 09:48:10 pm

Title: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 20, 2010, 09:48:10 pm
This thread is for development announcements for the Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS). Any comments, suggestions or flames should be directed to the  Cooperative Plot Creation (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37898.0) thread.

The Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS) has been created to aid RPers find fellow RPers. This could be for simple to more complex RPs ideas.

Users will first have to  register  (http://trollkeep.com/PS/PS_register.html)to use the system. An email will then be sent with a password to use to  log in  (http://trollkeep.com/PS) to the system.

Users will then be able to submit as many characters as they may want to the database. Once submitted the character will then be available to those searching on different criteria of characters.

Users can search on race, guild, guild position, religion, time zone and character types (fighter, rogue, caster, labourer, merchant and crafter).

There is also a description which players can use to give a deeper aspect to the character.

It is my hope that this project will help to foster RP on PS in a more robust way than such attempts as the  [A post for RPers to find Rpers] (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) thread.

Time will tell.  :)

- Nova


Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on October 21, 2010, 06:05:45 am
And how can you prove that [A post for RPers to find Rpers] didn't work? Because it wasn't a plan, it was a statistic. It wasn't a creation, it was data.

What I mean is that you shouldn't down the previous thread, and that your project's title doesn't work.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 21, 2010, 07:30:15 am
Nothing of the kind was intended Geoni. The hope is that the software will offer a more  robust [5] (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/robust) search as the number of characters to sort through grows. It is also planned to write a  Web Scrape  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping) of the online  character listing  (http://psstatus.uglyhorst.de/chars_list.txt) and update a When last found on PS field every ten minutes via a  cron  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cron) task. Something which could not be done on the mentioned thread.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Aiwendil on October 21, 2010, 12:07:10 pm
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36145.0 (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36145.0)
In the logfiles you can easy check when a player was last online while you ran the script (Or if you run it all the time when the player was last online).
The logfiles are also great for finding alt of players or which GM used to be what player.
The latest version also included the possiblity to keep notes for every char (together with some general infos). It was up to the user to decide if he/she wanted to keep those infos IC only and use it more or less as a char's memory.
Also it uses the server status page to show who is online...so no idea how it is done for GMs who doesn't want to be seen right now, but if they are shown on the statuspage but not in /who the script will still show them.

So for people who don't want to visit webpages frequently and rely on infos typed by others without knowing what can be taken IC and what not this might be a alternative.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 21, 2010, 12:35:49 pm
That sounds interesting. Though the "website" argument doesn't really fit. You'll be using a script anyway, it's just not on a website. I didn't get the note things. So, you're the one making notes for the players, or the players themselves make the notes you read? Because if it's the first thing I mentioned, then this has nothing to do with this thread.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Aiwendil on October 21, 2010, 12:43:00 pm
You make the notes...nice for event organization or just to keep some background infos your char learned ICly about another. For the website...just meant that it's nicer for me to have a small window at the edge of the screen than a full browser open. I don't really get what this Cooperative plot creation thing is about...so I guess the script is not to been seen as a substitute for it but as another tool helping to setup events in game. The original idea when I wrote it was to make it easier to keep the IC intelligence infos the outlaws gathered. But it was never used for this as I left the outlaws then...but still helped me a lot in the Red Crystal Organization events. So excuse me if I got the plot creating wrong..thought this is about aiding players in their RPs.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 21, 2010, 01:16:49 pm
Creative Plot Creation is about allowing different players to plan their plots, and asking help to other players with complementing chars.

Imagine I have a blacksmith who believes he's made something pretty value. He has been telling all his friends, but unfortunately when you do that unfriendly people get to know it as well.


Let's call the above situation a plot starter. Or primer, since I study genetics. Well, as PS is sitting, it probably won't happen because at the time it happens there aren't any ruffians around. Still, you'd love it to happen, because it would be fun to roleplay things from there. So, you go to this list, find a ruffian and ask a player if he won't mind to assume his character had the information. That done...

Irdeal, who had heard the conversation between the blacksmith and his friends, began making a plan right away. He summoned his gang and told them they would wait for the blacksmith in an alley. They did so and extracted the item from the blacksmith, who didn't want to get beaten.

But the blacksmith hasn't said his last word. Together with his friends they try to go after the members he remember were in the gang... while the bandits try to sell the item to someone.


Got it now? It's just a way to facilitate the complementation of characters.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Aiwendil on October 21, 2010, 01:24:49 pm
Ah okay, got it right then...just can't understand the motivation for it. But then it makes sense to offer an alternative for players who prefer the "Let's see who I meet in game and learn about them ICly then find out to what kind of RP this will lead" over the "I like it better to to just search a weblist of chars for a fitting one and not waste my time looking for one in game as I have a clear idea about the plot already" (Sorry..hope that wasn't too judging on one of the styles). But as I don't play anymore I really have no idea if some of the former mentioned are even still playing this game...so just posted this here in case there are.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 21, 2010, 06:31:39 pm
Any system that helps in RP is a good thing (TM) in my estimation.  :thumbup:

Neither the  python script  (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36145.0) nor the Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS) make either redundant. They are different approaches to the same end; aiding and fostering PS RP.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on October 22, 2010, 12:33:38 am
In my very honest opinion, this would be better:

Have an archive of players who actually roleplay, and place their characters on a list. Nothing else should be there. No description or history of the character, nothing but the name.

You might be asking, "Why do you think it should be that way, Geoni?"

Well I'll have to tell you what I have observed in roleplay when I was still playing this game. When you run into a character, they will have a physical description of their character, and you learn about internal things (emotions/personality dadadada) when you RP with them. My simple answer. 
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Illysia on October 22, 2010, 02:08:55 am
Oh Geoni, leave Nova and his little project alone. This won't be the last time something sounds like scripting to you. One of the tricks of navigating this forum is learning how to catch every other aggravating issue. Don't worry, this game will give you no small amount of things to critique over time. Just catch the next issue. ;)

However, since I'm due to catch a new one here's my input. Nova can trademark a good thing? ::| It would be nice if this database helped foster RP but the problem seems to be less people and more a good plot. People disappeared because there wasn't enough to do. Once Roled started his plot coordination, people started coming out of the woodwork. How about a random plot starter generator kinda like this here (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=storygen) but more suited to PS settings. Yes it could lead to cookie cutter plots, but without players filling in details plots will be that way anyway.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 22, 2010, 05:31:26 am
How about a random plot starter generator kinda like this here (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=storygen) but more suited to PS settings.

This sounds like a worthwhile tool to add to the Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS). My guess is that the name is slightly misleading and that plots are not being generated; but instead randomly chosen from a database of such story lines which, themselves, are flagged by category. The programming side would be much more trivial than actually compiling the data. Should anyone be willing to compile the data then the coding to handle them would be done gladly.

Any interested party should compile them using any database software ( Excel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excel),  MySQL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL), etc.) which can handle the exporting of a table into  comma delimited  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delimiter-separated_values)text files. Such files can then be imported into the MySQL used in the Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS).

It is my feeling that even better that such a random story line generator would be a well crafted  HOWTO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HOWTO) on techniques and ideas of how to put such RP plots together. That would be welcomed for display at the Cooperative Plot Creation Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS) site as well.

- Nova

Edit 102610 : Some Useful Links have been added to the  Project (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=38325.0)'s  Main Page (http://trollkeep.com/PS). The Storyline HOWTO has a waiting menu placement.

Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 22, 2010, 08:42:39 am
I'll try to work on a compatible HOWTO. Due next week.

As far as the current critiques go:  My own critiques: Nova, we shouldn't have a registration required. I believe it should take entries from the already existing [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0). This will achieve two things: making use of an already existing feature instead of making it redundant and avoiding to lose lazy people who do not feel like registering once again in the name of planeshift.
Everyone who wanted to would enter the site and look for chars, generate plots, read the howto, etc. and then make their plans and contact the necessary people.
Also this thread has become a thread to discuss stuff. So maybe you should place the news on the website itself and leave this here for the discussion of the project, while we forget the other post made? :P

EDIT: changed talk about random generator a little, made some stuff more clear. :P

Also, I don't imagine how hard it might be to take information from the [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) thread...
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 22, 2010, 04:41:36 pm
Nova, we shouldn't have a registration required. I believe it should take entries from the already existing [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0).

The registration is there to have some control against more malicious uses of the site. The software has ip blocking as well as unique ip and email checking available. At the moment the unique ip blocking is turned off. Do not underestimate the determination of spammers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spammer) and disgruntled players.

Scraping  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping)the data from the  [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) thread is on the  TODO List (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todo_list#Task_list). It should be implemented during the set up of the scrape of the online  character listing (http://psstatus.uglyhorst.de/chars_list.txt). The plan is to import the data; assigning it to a reserved name player like admin. Should another player, at some future date, happen along and try to submit the same named character; then the older entry would be deleted as the new entry is added to the database.

We can link the HOWTO from the opening page for public consumption. A public search has its pros and cons. Right now it seems more weighted towards the cons in my thinking.

- Nova






Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on October 23, 2010, 01:47:09 am
Bug / feature request list:
- Can't remove characters
- No option to view all characters
- No option for character gender
- No option for "follows no god" (as has been discussed is different from atheist)
- "Athiest" typo
- Line breaks in descriptions aren't converted to HTML linebreaks
- Description field contains a tab character by default
- Search result are ordered by ID instead of name (an "ORDER BY `name`" or something should do)
- All "home" links lead away from the site to the main blog. In order to get back to the welcome page, you need to manually edit the address.

I think that was everything that's immediately obvious. I would have tested for HTML / SQL / Script injections IF characters could be deleted again.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 23, 2010, 06:21:32 am
Thanks for taking things out for a test drive, derula.

Can't remove characters

It is on the TODO List.

- No option to view all characters

Its is on the TODO List

Edit 121310: The Character Full Listing menu option has been installed to logged in members.

- No option for character gender

Edit 111010 : Character Gender is now installed.

Great idea and totally overlooked in our  planning thread (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37898.0). Also overlooked the  Kran Race  (http://planeshift.ezpcusa.com/pswiki/index.php?title=Kran) until Lilura tried a submission.  :innocent:

Edit 102610 : Probably will get implemented with the additional fields being discussed below for the Character Types (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=38325.msg436694#msg436694) field.

- No option for "follows no god" (as has been discussed is different from atheist)

Another great idea.

- Line breaks in descriptions aren't converted to HTML linebreaks

There is an 800 character limit on that field and it is pretty much an 800 character string which is being entered raw at the moment. Another reason for keeping it key only club for the moment.  8)

Edit 112610: Line breaks now converted to HTML line breaks during Character Edit saves. This will be changed to adding them only temporarily during Character Display.

- Description field contains a tab character by default

In the bug/features list.  ::)

Edit 110710: Tab removed.

- Search result are ordered by ID instead of name (an "ORDER BY `name`" or something should do)

Edit 110710: Searches now ordered by name. A choice will be given for preference of display once the list can be keyed on activity of character as well as name.

The plan is to feed a field, called "When Last Seen On PS", at 10 minute intervals; scraping the  online character listing (http://psstatus.uglyhorst.de/chars_list.txt) for the data. Once that field is being fed then the search will be ordered on the "When Last Seen On PS" from recent to most inactive. Full character listings should be made available at that time.

Edit 121310: The Character Full Listing menu option has been installed to logged in members.

- All "home" links lead away from the site to the main blog. In order to get back to the welcome page, you need to manually edit the address.

Interesting point. Will try to address that.

Edit : As the players of my character's guild, as have the players of our allie guilds, have been very helpful in trying things out; the home links of the main page of the  project  (http://trollkeep.com/PS) now point to my  character's guild (http://eliteknights.foromotion.net/).
 
Edit : Home links throughout the site are now directed to my   character's guild (http://eliteknights.foromotion.net/)

Again, thanks for your participation!

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on October 23, 2010, 06:52:41 am
There is an 800 character limit on that field and it is pretty much an 800 character string which is being entered raw at the moment. Another reason for keeping it key only club for the moment.  8)

What about keeping that "raw" string limited to 800 characters in the database and insert line breaks on page display? Alternately, i.e. if you're lazy, simply add a style="white-space:pre-wrap" to the <p> element that contains the description...

online character listing (http://psstatus.uglyhorst.de/chars_list.txt)

Thanks for linking to that. I wouldn't have found it on my own :)

No, seriously: thanks for considering to use it. And for your purpose it should fit well, too. Just remember (or, hear for the first time): if the server is offline, this file will say "Server unreachable." (excluding quotation marks).


Edit: ...waaait a second. Username and password is transmitted in clear text GET requests for every page? Are you serious? Inb4 someone posts a link of a db search with his user name and password appended and someone edits his characters.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 24, 2010, 02:45:46 am
Nova, we shouldn't have a registration required. I believe it should take entries from the already existing [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0).

The registration is there to have some control against more malicious uses of the site. The software has ip blocking as well as unique ip and email checking available. At the moment the unique ip blocking is turned off. Do not underestimate the determination of spammers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spammer) and disgruntled players.

Scraping  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping)the data from the  [A Post for RPers to find RPers] (http://ww.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0) thread is on the  TODO List (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todo_list#Task_list). It should be implemented during the set up of the scrape of the online  character listing (http://psstatus.uglyhorst.de/chars_list.txt). The plan is to import the data; assigning it to a reserved name player like admin. Should another player, at some future date, happen along and try to submit the same named character; then the older entry would be deleted as the new entry is added to the database.

We can link the HOWTO from the opening page for public consumption. A public search has its pros and cons. Right now it seems more weighted towards the cons in my thinking.

- Nov

You see, my idea was that there would be no other way of adding characters to the list... So, you'd have to already be spamming PlaneShift's forum in order to spam the page. So in my scenario, all entries would be applied by the "scraping admin."
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 24, 2010, 07:50:47 am
What about keeping that "raw" string limited to 800 characters in the database and insert line breaks on page display? Alternately, i.e. if you're lazy, simply add a style="white-space:pre-wrap" to the <p> element that contains the description...

Thanks for that.

Edit: ...waaait a second. Username and password is transmitted in clear text GET requests for every page? Are you serious? Inb4 someone posts a link of a db search with his user name and password appended and someone edits his characters.

Recommend not posting links at this time.

Edit 112610: TODO - Hide url embedded variables. 

You see, my idea was that there would be no other way of adding characters to the list... So, you'd have to already be spamming PlaneShift's forum in order to spam the page. So in my scenario, all entries would be applied by the "scraping admin."

Perhaps the thread and the  Project  (http://trollkeep.com/PS)may each have their own uniqueness of browsing. Perhaps, it may be better to just wait until we see how things play out and offer players the choice of what. which, or both styles of participation that they desire?

The more thinking about the plot generator has begun to intrigued me more. Yet something that actually generates as opposed to fortune cookie message plots. Something putting dynamic descriptions together, It could be a fun project with a lot of unexpected plots that may come along. You know what they say about the room full of monkeys typing?  Maybe it took more monkeys than that.  ;)

- Nova
 
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: weltall on October 24, 2010, 11:35:26 am
changing to post is quite easy to do you just have to change get to post
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 24, 2010, 11:48:30 am
Actually, if it's done the way you're thinking it will cover what I want anyway: the utilization of the already existing thread. So... That's solved, sorry for not realizing it earlier :P.
Still, public search should be made available. I don't think it has any cons: you can see what players are playing with the already existing tools, and it doesn't hurt anyone that their character's descriptions is shared with others (as long as you don't make a description your char's biography...)

The plot generator would have to be made with very generic stuff, and then players would have to shape things up afterwards. I didn't like the "Thief stole grimoire" thing I got on the example...
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 25, 2010, 08:27:14 pm
It just feels comfortable, at this stage, to have validation in place. The public search is planned for the ability to list from most active to least. This cannot be accomplished until the scrape, mentioned above, is employing the online character listing.

One thing that may be nice is to expand known settings as much as possible through the eyes of the records retrieved; by linking their data to such things as the  race  (http://planeshift.ezpcusa.com/pswiki/index.php?title=Kran) which is returned. Could do the same with a lot of the fields.

Edit 102610 : The character display now links the race name to the PS Wiki of that race.

Edit 102610 : Religion field display is now linked to the respective god wiki page.

- Nova

Edit: Forgot to mention the idea of adding a feature whereby characters can be flagged as knowing another character. Much like the friends system of Facebook. Might that be beneficial in weaving plots?
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Ruya on October 26, 2010, 03:11:13 am
Two quick things:

1) Lemur is missing from the list of races. 
2) Can the "Character Description" field be substituted with something... well, useful?   My impression from when BoT members were talking about it in guild chat was that section would be for character information, like "So-and-so is a preachy _____" or "So-and-so is a merchant who sells _____".   Having the actual descriptions is pretty useless as a plotting tool, IMO.   Could it perhaps be substituted with "Commonly Known Information"?   
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 26, 2010, 05:28:01 am
1) Lemur is missing from the list of races.  

Fixed. Let me know if any other Lemur problems should appear. Thanks!

2) Can the "Character Description" field be substituted with something... well, useful?   My impression from when BoT members were talking about it in guild chat was that section would be for character information, like "So-and-so is a preachy _____" or "So-and-so is a merchant who sells _____".   Having the actual descriptions is pretty useless as a plotting tool, IMO.   Could it perhaps be substituted with "Commonly Known Information"?  

That seems like a fine distinction and shall be made so.

Edit: 102610 Users will now find Commonly Known Information where the Description field had been previously. The disclaimer [ Information on characters refers to what is generally known about them. ] has, also, been added. The same change has been made in the character display as well with the disclaimer [ When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it itself. ].

Edit: 102610 Have been experimenting with placing HTML in the Description field. Check out Venorel's display.

Edit: 102610 So far have added links to the forum of RPs Venorel seems to be involved in. Also added her online/offline tag from psstatus.uglyhorst.de. The latter might be nice to automatically appear in the search listing results.

- Nova

Edit: 102610 Now both Edit and View option exist in the Your Character Listing. You can, now, edit and flip back to see what the record looks like displayed from a search.


Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on October 26, 2010, 12:31:25 pm
Edit: Forgot to mention the idea of adding a feature whereby characters can be flagged as knowing another character. Much like the friends system of Facebook. Might that be beneficial in weaving plots?

That's basically what I was meant when I asked if you could add "social networking like" features.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: LigH on October 26, 2010, 02:18:35 pm
changing to post is quite easy to do you just have to change get to post

Basically... but please note that some browsers really require enctype="application/x-www-form-urlencoded" when using method="post" in HTML forms (e.g. WebKit based browsers like Safari and Chrome), they don't work reliably with enctype="text/html".
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 26, 2010, 04:28:17 pm
Yeah, I was going to say that too LigH.

I have also some stuff to add:

 1) There should be a disclaimer when searching. This disclaimer should say something along the lines of "Information on characters refers to what is generally known about them. When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it itself."
Why... Because it'd help with keeping people focused.

 2) Also, I'd change the "character" types to this:Why? Ranger account for sneaky, agility based characters that actually don't go around stealing, they just scout and stuff. Social type characters are characters with representation functions, like recruiters, diplomats, preachers, event planners, etc. Entertainers are an obvious call. All Around type accounts for the characters with plenty of areas, like more than 2 or 3 of the above. Dudes, it's the system we have.
 
3) I'd add a section called "Demeanor" and make it include fields along the lines of: "Passive, Aggressive, Kind, Protective, Witty, Moody, Criminal, Selfish, Undisclosed (For those who don't wish to share it / despise the utility of the function.)
Why!? Because, as far as I'm concerned at least, it would be a great help with choosing which chars to include for my plot. I may need a passive rogue, or an aggressive caster or one of those Undisclosed Rangers which act like a wildcard. It makes choosing a whole lot easier, since you don't have to read each mage's description until you find one with a mindset of your liking.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 26, 2010, 06:46:07 pm
@derula : Glad we are on the same page about the character social network. My bad.  :P

@LigH : Thanks for the heads' up. Safari has made a brief introduction with me already.  8)

1) There should be a disclaimer when searching. This disclaimer should say something along the lines of "Information on characters refers to what is generally known about them. When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it itself."
Why... Because it'd help with keeping people focused.

Done with some edit trimming of the actual text. Please let me know if you think it is not enough.

2) Also, I'd change the "character" types to this:
  • Rogue;
  • Ranger;
  • Fighter;
  • Caster;
  • Social;
  • Merchant;
  • Laborer;
  • Crafter;
  • Entertainer;
  • All Around.

Fine additions. Let's let this idea stew and arrive at a consensus and then make changes in one swoop. There are a couple of other fields in the line up as well.

Edit 102710: Also 'LastSeenOnPS', 'gender' (Lilura will finally have kra's dating site), all variables needed to patch into an old D&D script to pass back a battle description and any PS stats, skills or inventory which the script may require for combat decision making.

Edit 111010: The following fields have been added to the character schema:
 -  lastps   : Last Seen On Ps      
 -  gender  
 -  ranger
 -  representative
 -  entertainer
 -  strength
 -  agility
 -  hitpts : Hit Points
 -  psarmour : PS Armour Type. ie. LA, MA or HA
 -  weapon1
 -  weapon2

Edit 111110:  gender, ranger, representative and entertainer fields are now fully functional.

Edit 111110: strength, agility and hit points fields have been fully integrated.

3) I'd add a section called "Demeanor" and make it include fields along the lines of: "Passive, Aggressive, Kind, Protective, Witty, Moody, Criminal, Selfish, Undisclosed (For those who don't wish to share it / despise the utility of the function.)

Interesting idea. Name them Traits perhaps?

- Nova

Edit 102610: There has been  discussion  (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37719.0) of expanding the schema  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_schema)to handle dice rolled RP combat by employing the /dice command of the client with modifiers for rolls supplied through a web tool. The web tool could calculate the modifiers with information given; yet not displayed in search results. Both contestants could see the modifiers. This would be only be after each user had excepted the challenge through the site; in simular fashion as would happen in the PvP steps of challenge on PS.

Edit 102610: Thiinking further this could be the beginnings of the Calendar feature discussed on channels. Could have location, preferred time and choice of weapons. We could even allow the option for an auto email notification if the user has that feature toggled ON. Also could choose to have it announced or not in the Duel Announcements; to ensure the right ears have been greased; or made to overhear it. Of course a more private setting could be chosen.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 27, 2010, 12:15:51 am
Name it whatever you like. Also, maybe Scholar would be a good class as well. I think that way we have everything (or almost everything) covered.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 28, 2010, 01:01:56 am
Double post to say that the "Black Flame" options for religion isn't a smart idea... It's better (for everyone) if we don't know who is a black flamer or not: one because they should be secret, two because they should be secret.

I'm of the opinion that it'd be best to lose the plots these Black Flame people would do if they found each other, than to lose the fun of it being ultra secret.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 29, 2010, 06:17:36 am
Character to Character Messaging

Characters can now communicate within the  site  (http://trollkeep.com/PS)to one another. When one gets a search listing returned users will now notice a [ Tell ] link after the [ View ] link of each character returned in the search. By following the [ Tell ] link one can send a message to the character from any of the characters on the user's character listing.

One can now read new and archived message by following the Message menu link on the left side of most site pages.

There are two options in the Message Center. After choosing for which character, one can either have only new messages returned (which will immediately mark them as old) or archived (old) messages; which is a listing of all sent and received message from newest to oldest.

This is pretty rough edged at the moment; yet at least characters can start to communicate on the site between one another. The entry sent in the tells provides full HTML capabilities.

Some flashing symbol will eventually be placed in the Your Character Listing output to let users know which of their characters has any new messages.

Edit 102910:  New tells are now displayed with a link, [New Tells], which will appear in the Your Character Listing menu link's output; if the character in the listing has new messages waiting.

Edit 110810: TODO: Offer Reply link when reading tells.

Edit 110910: Reply button now installed in the New Message Display page.

Edit 111010: The Message Center page now offers Inbox, Outbox and Full Archive Listings.

Edit 121210: TODO - Offer Message listings on sender or receiver name from both inbox, outbox and both.

Edit 112410: TODO: A Post button at the bottom of each Character Display Page to be able to readily send the character being viewed a message.

Edit 021411:: A Send Message link is now offered at the bottom of each Character Display page.

What comes to mind as this system gets more polished is a means by which to run RPs off map. That is on trips beyond the known worlds of PS. On lower levels or wherever; that a GM might run or the storyline style players may find as a useful tool.

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

Double post to say that the "Black Flame" options for religion isn't a smart idea... It's better (for everyone) if we don't know who is a black flamer or not: one because they should be secret, two because they should be secret.

They could always lie about it and who is to know.

Edit 102910: With the new Message system you could drop the character in question a message as to your opinion. If they read it and agree they could then edit the record.

- Nova

Edit 102910: Thinking more about running rpgs in the message system one technique immediately comes to mind. The style was played out years ago on an old  BBS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBS). It was a Star Wars Scenario so action filled. The GM had us post each of our characters' actions to a thread which he then rolled up the results and posted a message of what all happened. By creating a GM Character Record on the  site  (http://trollkeep.com/PS) each character involved in the rpg could post their actions to the GM Character using the tells explained above. The GM could then simple cut and past the full story of what happened to each character involved in the actions. Mass Mailing/Messaging seems like a natural progression.

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

Edit 102910: One easy translation of stats may be at a 10:1 ratio. A strength of 100 would mean a 10 STR in translation. That is basing things on the concept that maxing most things, on PS, is 200 and in D&D around 21. Maybe it would be more in step to use the  Open Game Licensed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Game_License), d20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System).

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on October 29, 2010, 08:48:33 pm
I think this is really awesome. Are PMs HTML-enabled? If so, I'd like to be able to view a preview of my message.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 30, 2010, 04:02:35 pm
I have new critique. I think the database should be more player focused. Instead of asking GMT for each character we make, just ask once when the player creates the account. Also, make the player visible in the character's profile, so people can distinguish between alts (i.e. don't end up asking the same player to play two characters on a plot.)

There should also be a way of seeing all added characters in a list that can be organized by GMT, Traits, Class, Religion, etc. This would greatly improve navigation, making the character selection way more easy.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on October 30, 2010, 05:26:57 pm
I have new critique. I think the database should be more player focused. Instead of asking GMT for each character we make, just ask once when the player creates the account. Also, make the player visible in the character's profile, so people can distinguish between alts (i.e. don't end up asking the same player to play two characters on a plot.)

I do not agree.
1) Timezone issue: One player might want to play different characters at different times of the day, and could thus "fake" a time zone.
2) No. No. Simply no. That would mean if you want to create a secret alt you would not everyone to know that you're playing him, you would have to create a new account. That's stupid. If you WANT other players to know about your alts, you can say that in the description.

In both cases: IF such an option be added, AT LEAST make it optional. Thanks.

Edit: btw, why is none of the (even trivial) bugs I reported earlier fixed?
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 31, 2010, 12:19:37 am
Are PMs HTML-enabled? If so, I'd like to be able to view a preview of my message.

Wonderful idea. A little Javascript should do the job nicely. Thanks for that!

I think the database should be more player focused.

My goal would be to make the database as character centric as possible. This is particularly strong in feeling that the player should be used in the background only. If a consensus emerges wishing the database more player centric then my thoughts will be revisited.

There are a lot of plans on the drawing board which would suite better a character centric site. These include...

1. A D&D combat results script; which spits the output of a battle to the screen either as a complete battle or one swing at a time.

2. A two dimensional hex map, which could be used to give a visual layout for a GM running an online table rpg through the site's mechanics.

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

3. Also on the drawing board is the beginning concepts of an rpg scenario using PS Settings. It would be something that takes place outside the Bronze Doors (http://planeshift.ezpcusa.com/pswiki/index.php?title=Bronze_Doors) for low level characters. It would be a means that more than one character can arrive on PS with a previously existing back story (or stories as more are written) which is common to more than one character.

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

Just some examples of why my vision for the site is a character centric one.

Edit: btw, why is none of the (even trivial) bugs I reported earlier fixed?

Overworked and underpaid?  :P

Edit 103010: Checking back through the thread, there seemed only one post  (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=38325.msg436386#msg436386)which alluded to bugs. Please correct me if wrong.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 31, 2010, 01:17:47 am
Hey, wait a minute. I thought these Cooperative Plot thingy was meant to focus on PlaneShift. Now you're talking of boards and whatnot?
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 31, 2010, 01:41:50 am
Hey, wait a minute. I thought these Cooperative Plot thingy was meant to focus on PlaneShift. Now you're talking of boards and whatnot?

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

My thoughts were to approach the Powers that Be to put all the content of the Scenario(s) under the Atomic Blue copyright. In that way they may be able to market them because of their PS Settings.

As mentioned in my thread the original goal of any traditional rpg play using PS Settings on the site  (http://trollkeep.com/PS) would be to be able to give new (mentioned as low level above) characters common background stories. Like you and your friends do one of the low level scenarios at around the time one creates a PS character; or before; and then all those characters would have a shared back story. It could also be a means to introduce players to more traditional rpg as opposed to the all meaning RP which one finds mention on the forum.

Edit: It could also lead to RP spilling out into PS, and continuing and growing there.

It would also offer the Settings Team some imaginative ideas of what may be going on beyond the  Bronze Doors (http://planeshift.ezpcusa.com/pswiki/index.php?title=Bronze_Doors). It would be assumed that only their approval would make distribution available for Atomic Blue Approved Scenarios. The rule set used would be  d20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_System) so there would be only the settings and perhaps some graphics that Atomic Blue need consider. None of the character mechanics would come into play. My intention would not be to develop the PCs. They may get some prizes like weapons and armour purchased for them on PS to match those they may have won through the scenario. Or perhaps some tria, gems, gold, what-hev-you. The goal would be back story and fun reads of completed quests. Anything of that nature in the forums; using PS Settings; by my way of thinking would be a good thing for PS.

- Nova

Edit 103010: One approach may be to have a maze aspect a big part of the scenario. The map layout could be 4 or 5 mazes linked together. In that way it could be used in module form by future GMs; who could arrange the map in unique ways to add the element of surprise and avoid huge spoilers. The modules could be designed in such a way as to be altered according to their placement in the over all scenario map. That is their level. May want each module to have the ability to raise a character one d20 level. Completing the full module set would therefore allow a nice variance of how the module feels according to what level it is assigned by its positioning.

Edit 103010: Just a footnote after a chat in game with one of my guild mates. First and foremost the site  (http://trollkeep.com/PS) is intended to foster RP in PS. The Scenario play is just one use of the site that it would interest me to try out. Any web tools scripted for that use would be done with the intention that they would, also, aid in some styles of RP found in PS. Such things as the combat results come readily to mind.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on October 31, 2010, 10:38:42 am
The most important part here is not creating backgrounds or stories in places we currently have no access to. The important part is creating plots that can be played out in this game, in order to increase the amount of material we have.

PS has its own rules, so why bother with using D&D's? I mean, anyone who wants is free to do it, but I think that's only a niche thing. You won't ever get as little as  15% of PS's population engaging in that kind of wackiness.

I'm still making the Cooperative Plot Creation HOW TO, but it doesn't include leaning on external sources for rules and whatnot.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: verden on October 31, 2010, 03:25:35 pm
Quote
so why bother with using D&D's?

Because there are few, if any, mechanisms in PS that support roleplay between characters.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on October 31, 2010, 04:18:34 pm
PS has its own rules, so why bother with using D&D's?

Because PS combat handling; and most other dice rolled mechanics; are under Atomic Blue copyright and not allowed for public use.

I'm still making the Cooperative Plot Creation HOW TO

Glad to hear. It will be a welcome addition.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 01, 2010, 12:48:17 am
*sighs* I still don't get it why we can't just focus in in-game roleplay... But I'm just being exhaustive, I get it.

Hum, this week I had some evaluations and such... This week I'll have some too, but I have half of the HOW TO done. I think you'll like the outcome.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Illysia on November 01, 2010, 01:23:56 am
*sighs* I still don't get it why we can't just focus in in-game roleplay...

Because most other people haven't been gone 3 or 4 years and so the grievances are still fresh. You've walked away from the battle for quite awhile, there is a reason you aren't as tired of it as others. ;)
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 01, 2010, 02:05:46 am
*sighs* I still don't get it why we can't just focus in in-game roleplay... But I'm just being exhaustive, I get it.

Don't let my side project distract you. Think of it as a means to test ideas out that will aid in dice style RPs in PS.

Edit 111410: The off map RP idea has been scrapped.

Hum, this week I had some evaluations and such... This week I'll have some too, but I have half of the HOW TO done. I think you'll like the outcome.

That will be a great addition. Looking forward to it!

- Nova

Edit 110110: Additional HTML (including an image) has been added to Venorel Weruno's Character Display. The trick, at the moment, of adding HTML to the Character Display is to make all quote marks (") literal. This is so that it is not interpreted during it's saving. This can be done by preceding any quote marks with a backward slash (\). So all quote marks should be entered as \" .

Edit 110110: HTML (including quote marks) should now be fully functional in the Character Display. The quotes are now made literal during submission for you.

Edit 110210: Users will now find a new link in the Useful Links of the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS)'s main page called Characters Presently on PS. It scrapes derula's PS status script (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=36943.0). Once the needed fields are added to the site's characters' table the registered characters on the site will be marked as to the last date the character was seen on PS.

Edit 110310: Users will now find a new link in the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS)'s menu, which is a link called Registered Characters on PS. This link will display all characters registered on the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS) which are presently being played on PS. There is a 10 minute delay so do not expect it to be instantaneous.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on November 05, 2010, 11:22:34 pm
Ahem. All these bugs are still present, some of them trivial to fix:

- Can't remove characters
- No option to view all characters
- No option for character gender
- No option for "follows no god" (as has been discussed is different from atheist)
- "Athiest" typo
- Line breaks in descriptions aren't converted to HTML linebreaks
- Description field contains a tab character by default
- Search result are ordered by ID instead of name (an "ORDER BY `name`" or something should do)
- All "home" links lead away from the site to the main blog. In order to get back to the welcome page, you need to manually edit the address.

And I add to the list the following: On the character submission screen, there is a guild rank "High-ranked member". This value is called "Leader" everywhere else. I like the former better. Or, if you insist to differentiate between "Leader" and "Head Leader", consider adding "High-ranked member" as a new option.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 07, 2010, 04:33:57 am
@derula...

- Can't remove characters

While still awaiting a Stonebreaker to shuffle thier little legs to the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS), so as to stand out as an example of their noble race (http://planeshift.ezpcusa.com/pswiki/index.php?title=Stonebreaker) in the chronicles of the BoT's Census Project (http://trollkeep.com/PS); there was no intention of loosing any records which had been submitted.   :devil:

Edit 110910: With the recently newly registered Stonebreaker all races now return a match in the search of the database.

There is an exception. That is any characters with no name. They catch my eye when checking the database for something and will probably become a nightly cull. That is, one flags a character to be deleted by removing the name in the Edit link from the Character List page.

Nova places it on the features/bug list.

- No option to view all characters

Not at the moment. One thing holding it up is the ability to display listing keyed on most active to least active on PS; as well as the reverse. It is simply awaiting the Last seen on PS field's addition to the character schema.

- No option for character gender

That is awaiting the new fields installation hack-a-thon. The Gender field will be added at the same time as adding the Last seen on PS field to the character schema.

Edit 111010: The gender and Last seen on PS fields have been added to the character schema

Edit 111010: Character Gender is now installed.

- No option for "follows no god" (as has been discussed is different from atheist)

It would be my preference to introduce a Spirituality field which contained an integer value of 100 and one could rank their spirituality. Having it set at zero (0) would display Following No God in the character's Religion field display on the Character Display page.

- "Athiest" typo

One the TODO list ( Thank you! )

Edit 110710: Changed to Atheism

- Line breaks in descriptions aren't converted to HTML linebreaks

feature/bug list

Edit 102110: Line breaks now turned to HTML line breaks during the Character Edit submission.

Edit 120410: Line breaks now turned to HTML line breaks during the Character Display Page generation.
 
- Description field contains a tab character by default

On TODO list

Edit 110711: Tab removed.

- Search result are ordered by ID instead of name (an "ORDER BY `name`" or something should do)

On TODO list

Edit 110711: Done.

- All "home" links lead away from the site to the main blog. In order to get back to the welcome page, you need to manually edit the address.

On TODO list

Edit 110710: The Home link; found at the bottom of all site pages beside the Join and Terms links; now sends the user back the the main page of the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS/). The Brotherhood of Talad logo still takes users to the Guild's forum (http://eliteknights.foromotion.net/index.htm).

add to the list the following:

On the character submission screen, there is a guild rank "High-ranked member". This value is called "Leader" everywhere else. I like the former better. Or, if you insist to differentiate between "Leader" and "Head Leader", consider adding "High-ranked member" as a new option.


It appealed to me that a player makes a submission which is really an integer value and the software displays it with a slightly different light. Yet your suggestion, Derula, is certainly open for debate and consideration.

Edit 112510: TODO: Rename guild membership display choices to match the editing display choices.

Edit 021311: : Guild membership display choices now match the editing display choices.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 08, 2010, 02:57:08 am
Here's what I came up with. Hope you like it. It's a bit extensive, but I think it's not hard to read and understand and it touches the most important points. If I'm wrong, criticism will certainly improve it and make it ideal.


HOWTO: Plot Creation.

0. Introduction
We all like Roleplaying Games with thick, creative and interesting plots, right? But in a MMORPG it is particularly hard come by these, because everything is diluted in a mass of players with different approaches and behaviours. It's still possible though!
This HOWTO explains how to create good plots at PlaneShift's Roleplay server, for someone who already understands the basics of roleplay.

1. First of all...

1.1. Requirements
Make sure you know how to roleplay (http://www.planeshift.it/roleplay.html) and do it for a while at PS's Roleplay Server to understand it's general context.

You also need time to spare for this. A good plot usually goes by itself after a while, but the beginning always requires plenty of effort, focus and input until everything is planned and enough material is built.

Never forget to have fun.

1.2. Some Concepts

Material: Refers to everything within the game which influences roleplay and plot creation. Backgrounds, character relations, important objects, etc.

Crutch: A crutch is material invented by plot creators that didn't take place in-game. Use as little as you can.

Input: Actions that lead to the creation of new material.

Cooperators: These are the players who will be helping you, following the script you've all agreed upon.

Participators: These players won't be aware of the script, but will participate as well.

2. Getting Started

2.1. Resources
It's rarely a good idea to start a plot from zero, because it will require you to rely heavily on crutches.
So analyse the material you have: the characters you've been playing for a while, their relations (IC friendships, Guilds), their resources (tria, items, time) and your knowledge of the setting and of other player's characters.

2.2. Plotting

2.2.1. Sketching
Now that you have considered the material you have, you just need to think about the inputs necessary to create the dynamic plot we're after. What/Who can be taken/searched for/attacked/created? Who will be responsible it? Who is influenced by it? Where should it take place? Why would you need help from strangers (participators)? Why should all of it take place?
The answers to these questions will help you get a general idea of what inputs you need to get, what crutches you'll require to use, what types of characters you'll require as collaborators in order to design a plot and the space there is for participators to jump in.

After you have an idea of what you're going after write down a simple, short and coherent script. Also it's best to make several solid and connected short plots than one big crappy one.

Avoid having situation where many collaborator characters interact simultaneously, or it'll make Plot Driving really hard.
Avoid writing static situations (like "Relo hits Juszy on the face."), try to make them as dynamic as possible ("Relo will be searching for Juszy. Relo knows Juszy stole his dagger.") This way you leave space for everyone to roleplay as they want.
Warning: Your plot should have plenty of space for the participators. It makes little sense to create a plot where everyone goes by a script. Make sure most of it happens in public, but plausible, places and leave space for interaction.

Reread the sketch more than once. Is it consistent with your character? Are the inputs capable of being produced without disrespecting settings? Can you actually communicate with that much people? Are there people enough to keep the plot flowing? Make the amends you need.

2.2.2. Cooperation
Now it's time to contact the collaborators. Use as much active characters you personally know as possible (and plausible) and then search the Database to find collaborator characters that suit your sketched plot.
Contact all collaborator players. First ask for their interest and capability in participating in a plot. Show them a little summary of it, no spoilers.
If they like the idea send them the sketch. Listen to everyone's ideas, discuss them and improve your sketch.
As soon as everybody agrees with the final plot, it's ready to be implemented. Finally!

3. Plot Driving
If you did your plotting well, only some few parts will require several of the collaborators to be online at the same time and these parts will be done at times where there are plenty of potential participators around.

Make sure the participators know at all times who they can contact to keep the plot flowing, even if you have to make some crutches, force some acting or even tell them through /tells.

Be sure to be active enough for participators and collaborators to go through you with their findings and progressions.

If things go a bit out of what you planned, try to make use of it, sometimes the plot becomes better than what you had in mind.

Have fun.

4. Oversimplified, but complete, Example

1.
José has been roleplaying in PlaneShift for an year now. He gets along pretty well with some of other players and it seems he'll be having time to express his creativity.

2.
So, José thinks about his resources: He's just been playing one single character, Hugthar, who is a glutton of a Kran that worships Dakkru and belongs to the Tefusang Raiders, a guild of lowly burglars. He knows of a guild of miners called Ulberpicks as well, who get gems for krans and decoration lovers.

He could be looking for some pretty impressive gem. Ulberpicks could have this gem, a mix of ruby, diamond, emerald... and something else. His mates could help him... But the  Ulberpicks are too tough to ambush. Maybe this is where the strangers could come in. They could help him trick the Ulberpicks, or they could be  tricked into buying the gem the Ulberpicks wouldn't sell to the Tefusang Raiders. Why? Hugthar's just has a really exquisite taste.

(Notice there's one crutch already, the mixed gem.)

So José writes something up: Hugthar asks around if someone can help him buy a gem from the Ulberpicks, since they won't sell it to him. People should get interested and ask the Ulberpicks. Ulberpicks should give the gem eventually, to someone who complies to what terms the Ulberpicks impose. A person should return to them, to be ambushed out of the gem.

Sounds fun. So he sends the message to the Ulberpick's guild leader and talks about his idea. The Ulberpick's leader likes it. But he says that it couldn't be a mixed gem, but maybe a necklace with all three of them, set into onyx. José thinks "sure, sounds even tastier."
He also sends a message to some of his guild mates to help with asking for help and to help with the ambush. They agree to do it.

3.
He plays the first days and spreads the message around, along with a friend of his. They didn't need to be on at the same time, but happened to be.
However during the play the person asking the Ulberpicks told them it was the Tefusang Raiders who were asking for it and so the Ulberpicks hid the gem.
So Hugthar got no gem... And the Ulberpicks are even madder at them now. So the Tefusang Raiders will be searching the person who opened up the plan in order to get revenge.

New material was created, people had fun, everything went well.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Mekora on November 08, 2010, 04:40:33 am
I must say, this is a brilliant idea! But when I registered to that site I never got the confirmation email, and I tried again, and still, nothing.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on November 08, 2010, 05:28:33 am
1.1. Requirements
Make sure you know how to roleplay (http://www.planeshift.it/roleplay.html) and do it for a while at PS's Roleplay Server to understand it's general context.

I love how you link to a "guide" to roleplay, that uses an example in which a kran is referred to as a "he".
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 08, 2010, 06:38:28 am
I must say, this is a brilliant idea! But when I registered to that site I never got the confirmation email, and I tried again, and still, nothing.

You should have your VIP Pass in your Inbox. We can try to hunt down the email later.  :thumbup:

I love how you link to a "guide" to roleplay, that uses an example in which a kran is referred to as a "he".

First draft only, Geomi, though thanks for that input.

Looking great to me Sangwa and it seems in a good format to be able to add to it as time goes on. Just reading it and not using it to create a plot; one would have a sharper eye. Just a reminder that not all action is random acts or PL driven.

Make any revisions you may want done to your original posting and we can cut and paste it to a page for the Useful Links options of the site's main page (http://trollkeep.com/PS).  Just let me know how you would like it published on the site.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 08, 2010, 10:48:45 am
EDIT:

I've inserted the How To in another place (http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=38408.0). I've answered to the criticism there.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on November 13, 2010, 08:44:20 pm
Hello friends and users of the Cooperative Plot Creation Project,

I ehm... accidentally the whole character database. For that I apologize. Do not do any changes there for now, as novacadian will push a backup in some time. And then hopefully fix the bug that allowed me to blow everything up.

Edit: 200th post! Again!
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 13, 2010, 11:03:24 pm
New Features

- Players can now post their Gender, Stength, Agility, Health  and Armour type. Other than Gender the
  other fields will not be displayed on the Character Display. They will be used in the new battle routine
  that is currently under development.

Edit 111810: The Right Hand and Left Hand weapon placement is now in place on the Character Edit page.
Right now the choices are simply Sword, Axe or Blunt; plus Shield for the Left Hand.


- Partial searches are now possible on Character Name. So one can now search on Ven, Venorel and
  Venorel Weruno to return my character's record for example.
 
- The Registered Characters on PS menu link will return a listing of all site registered characters
  which are currently logged on PS. A  listing of all characters logged on PS can be had by using the
  Characters Presently on PS link on the main page of the site.  


Edit 112310: Returned matches on the Registered Characters on PS list are now linked to their Character Display Page.

Edit 112410: The public Characters Presently on PS link now bolds all names listed which find a match in the database of the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS).

Edit 112910: A All Characters on PS Menu link has been added to logged in menues. It will list all characters presently on PS and bold all characters in the site's (http://trollkeep.com/PS) database; with a link from them to their Character Display.

Edit 112410: Request made in Guild Chat for a full character listing (with links) for site members.

The database has been restored from backup as of 2010-11-13  1:21:44 EST.

My thanks to Derula for exposing a gaping security hole and providing a remedy. Until posted, here, that the remedy has been employed please refrain from further submissions. Feel free to use the site in the meantime in the ways it is meant to be used.  :D

- Nova


Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Candy on November 14, 2010, 07:48:59 am
Err. I register Monala as female Ynnwn, and when I log back in to update it, she's apparently a male klyros. There is no Ynnwn field now, but two klyros ones now. o.O
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 14, 2010, 08:57:52 am
Err. I register Monala as female Ynnwn, and when I log back in to update it, she's apparently a male klyros. There is no Ynnwn field now, but two klyros ones now. o.O


You must have ventured onto the site during the hack-a-thon.  Things seem to be right now. Thanks for the heads up.

- Nova

Character Display
Character Name:    Monala Colleler
Character Gender:    Female
Character Race: :    Ynnwn
Guild Name: :    
Guild Position: :    
Religion: :    Xiosia
Time Zone: :    GMT -8
Character Type: :    Fighter Rogue Labourer Crafter Ranger

Commonly Known Information: ; Monala is a six foot tall Ynnwn woman with ridiculously long hair. She's more muscled than most women, and a (very) young adult. She's a huntress for the most part, rarely seen without her two sabres which she refers to as "the girls", but she's mediocre at best at fighting people. She has a penchant for baking, cooking, and singing. She falls in love all to often, and tends to unwillingly attract trouble, usually stumbling out of it with a mix of good luck and the help of devoted friends. She's also excessively gullible.

[ When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it via IC means. ]
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Candy on November 15, 2010, 11:01:55 pm
Hack-a-thon? Oh my. Thanks for the fix <3
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on November 21, 2010, 12:48:33 am
So instead of being stubborn, I registered one of my characters. Check out what I did with strength, agility, and health.  :P Anyways, for some critique: I can't see a person always having the same thing in their right or left hand all the time. Don't know why that needs to be there. I also think that character type should be something a person can fill out themselves, and the rule Candy established: [When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it via IC means.]should be automatically added to the end of everybody's characters description.   

My dirty two cents.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 21, 2010, 01:40:38 am
Hi Geoni!

So instead of being stubborn, I registered one of my characters.

Your input is truly appreciated.  

Check out what I did with strength, agility, and health.  :P

That is not displayed in the Character Display Page. It is only visible to the player in the Character Edit Page of the respective character(s). It is in place while testing is being done on a dueling system; whereby one can challenge another character. When and if that character excepts the challenge then a battle is decided and written to both players' Inbox; weighted with the type of armour, weapons in use, Strength and Agility; in the settings which you mention.

Anyways, for some critique:

I can't see a person always having the same thing in their right or left hand all the time. Don't know why that needs to be there.

What a character is wielding or wearing; or their present Strength and Agility settings; would only be taken into account when excepting or offering a duel. You would see that there is a duel challenge awaiting you in your Inbox. Hopefully the two characters would then find themselves somewhere in the Dome and use the output on the excepted duel as a script to an RP contest.

There is the option to display the completed battle to the point where one character is one potential blow from death. It is called Capture Mode. One can also set it to Fight till Death or deliver the battle One swing Exchange to the Inbox of both players. In the case of using the One swing Exchange option then the challenged player is given the opportunity to advance to the next swing; with details of each swing being delivered to both the respective player's Inbox.

I also think that character type should be something a person can fill out themselves, and the rule Candy established: [When roleplaying, do not use any of this information, unless your character has acquired it via IC means.]should be automatically added to the end of everybody's characters description.  

[Edit: Why would you want to be able to write your own text for your race. The way in place now makes it easy to link each instance of race to the PS Wiki about that race. The same is done for the Religion field. ]
 
It is already.

[Edit : The Information Warning is already displayed at the bottom of each Character Display page. ]

My dirty two cents.

Nova places the pennies gratefully into his penny jar  

Thanks for the input!

- Nova

[ Edit 112110: A request has been made to add a Scholar/Scribe Type to the character record. ]

[ Edit 112310: Should also add Priest/ess at the same time. ]
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on November 21, 2010, 03:12:56 am
I was talking about the character types such as fighter, rouge, entertainer, etc. I think that should filled out by the player. Race choice and link to wiki is perfect, I don't think that needs to be changed. The whole scripted duel thing is a no for me, so I should probably mention that on my character profiles. I like expecting the unexpected, but I'll put it out there to everybody that I'm fine with meeting their character at some place, but I won't plan what will happen between them.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 21, 2010, 05:33:17 am
If it's filled out by the player it kind of loses its search value. Because what one calls a "sneaky character of doom" another calls a "stealthy warrior" and another ones calls a "roguish fighter" making it hard for someone to actually find the character he or she wants.
The way it is done, you just cross rogue and fighter and everyone can find the character easily.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on November 21, 2010, 07:56:54 am
People search for certain character types to RP with? The pompous pricks.  :o
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on November 21, 2010, 11:57:13 am
If it's filled out by the player it kind of loses its search value. Because what one calls a "sneaky character of doom" another calls a "stealthy warrior" and another ones calls a "roguish fighter" making it hard for someone to actually find the character he or she wants.
The way it is done, you just cross rogue and fighter and everyone can find the character easily.

Yeah, except if you can't check any of the values because nothing really fits your character all that well. What, e.g., if your character is a child?

- Description field contains a tab character by default

On TODO list

Edit 110711: Tab removed.

Yes and no. Now it adds a linebreak and a tab at the and of the description if you edit a character. You need to have something like sprintf("\t<textarea>%s</textarea>", description) instead of sprintf("\t<textarea>%s\n\t</textarea>", description). I know it hurts the inner eye of how HTML code should look like, but... yeah.

Also, can you pleeeaase either add a replace(description, "\n", "\n<br />") or, like I suggested, do
Code: [Select]
<p style="white-space:pre-wrap">(Character description here)</p>on the character display page? Pretty please? I don't want to be forced to add HTML to my description just to see line breaks in the output.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 21, 2010, 06:18:49 pm
You're missing the point here. Look at the name. "Cooperative Plot Creation." The list is not meant for you to look at people's characters and see who is the best, or to choose your very best friends from within.
It's there to help creative people with their plots and in most plots the cooperating characters involved fit some general type. Example: If you want to make a roleplay about someone who stole your ring, you'll find for a rogue in the list and then ask the person if they want to play along. Simple.

Of course novacadian can make it so you don't need to fill out the character type thing obligatorily. Not much use though, unless people are looking for something pretty specific that happened to be invented by another bloke.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 22, 2010, 02:06:33 am
I was talking about the character types such as fighter, rouge, entertainer, etc. I think that should filled out by the player. Race choice and link to wiki is perfect, I don't think that needs to be changed.

One solution would be to allow key word searches against the Description field. There one is encouraged to explain things as they wish; within the limits of 800 characters.

Edit 112510: A Character Description Search is now available in the Character Search Link of the logged in menu.

The whole scripted duel thing is a no for me, so I should probably mention that on my character profiles. I like expecting the unexpected, but I'll put it out there to everybody that I'm fine with meeting their character at some place, but I won't plan what will happen between them.

Using the One Swing Exchange during the RP will still offer the unexpected; however attached to some reality of the weighted odds of equipment, abilities and luck with respect to the characters involved in the combat. Experimenting is under way, with a Java client (http://trollkeep.com/images/Screenshot4.png) that already interacts with the same Perl library used on the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS). In this way, a small Java window may be able to be offered players to use the one swing at a time requests; without the need of the players to have loaded web browsers.

There is already a command link variable that will halt much, if not all, of the html returned with most links to the site Instead, only the raw data is returned which any page has retrieved from the MySQL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MySQL).


If it's filled out by the player it kind of loses its search value. Because what one calls a "sneaky character of doom" another calls a "stealthy warrior" and another ones calls a "roguish fighter" making it hard for someone to actually find the character he or she wants.
The way it is done, you just cross rogue and fighter and everyone can find the character easily.

Having a Description one key word search should address Geoni's suggestion.

Edit 112510: A Character Description Search is now available in the Character Search Link of the logged in menu.

People search for certain character types to RP with? The pompous pricks.  :o

It is likely that folks search for a multitude of reasons; none of which is mutually exclusive to the fact they could be pompous pricks.  :whistling:


You're missing the point here. Look at the name. "Cooperative Plot Creation." The list is not meant for you to look at people's characters and see who is the best, or to choose your very best friends from within.

In fairness, we are only delivering information after all. There is no restrictions for using the site to retrieve the information it is designed to deliver; although, like you, my hope is that the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS) will help creative people with their plots. Any web tools being added is with that intent in mind.

Yeah, except if you can't check any of the values because nothing really fits your character all that well. What, e.g., if your character is a child?

Again, my hope is that making a key word search available on the Description field should accommodate that.

Edit 112510: A Character Description Search is now available in the Character Search Link of the logged in menu.

Also, can you pleeeaase either add a replace(description, "\n", "\n<br />") or, like I suggested, do

That has been addressed using $description=~s/\n/<BR>/g;. Let me know if that is not enough.

Thanks for the input all!

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Geoni on November 22, 2010, 02:08:06 am
I don't know, I just like it because you can see who is online, and that by looking at their characters you can tell that they are roleplayers, unlike the "who's online" part of PS's site. (I forget how to locate that, but the problem with it is that it lists PLers). So I like to see if there is a significant amount of people online who roleplay. That motivates me to actually get in the game. Now that I know there are people on who roleplay, I will go online and start up some spontaneous roleplay. Which is what I am used to doing. I think scripting and creating plots before hand ruins the impromptu creativity of roleplay, and when somebody establishes a goal or an ending to the plot, I feel like I'm being forced to roleplay in progression to the end of that plot. I don't like that. But hey, one does what one wants. Pre-plotted roleplay is just not the roleplay I know, so I stay away from it.

Btw Sangwa, I don't know if what you said was directed at me or Derula, but I don't "look at people's characters and see who I think is the best," or "choose my best friends". I don't have friends on PS, my characters do. If they happen to see their friends they will go and talk to them, and if they see a person or situation that interests them, they will greet that person, or try and watch or involve themselves in that situation. That's just my style of doing things, so I'm just clarifying that.

Edit: @Nova: the pompous pricks thing was an exaggeration, I know that some people have their reasons for doing certain things. I like that solution you mentioned though, but it's your choice on what to do with this, I'm just giving you a players reaction. It's your project thingy.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Sangwa on November 22, 2010, 02:57:35 am
Geoni, it's good that you've found your own use for the site.

You still haven't grasped what our definition of plot creation is though. It's not about "scripting roles". It's about creating a roleplay plot. Every good roleplay has a plot, it's like an orientation established by some variables: usually NPCs and their relation.
In this case we can only control PCs, so we use them. However it's not an actual "scripted role" where everyone has to do as they're told. The point of having a list of characters is that you can create a plot with an orientation that allows depth. (Rather than simply allowing people to mingle in a middle ages chat.)
The purpose is the design of plots that will hopefully motivate certain characters. This design part influences mostly which characters are present at the beginning (and not what they will do) and what variables (items, relations, etc.) shall be acted upon. It doesn't tell what the exact reaction of each intervening character is though. And even if it usually depends on characters to be somewhat consistent, some surprises can add lots of entertaining outcomes.
If well done this creates material for spontaneous roleplay (since it augments relations between certain characters) and the plot will have outcomes that can be used, rather than a definite end.

As you can see, it's there exactly to help you out with your spontaneous roleplay.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 22, 2010, 03:17:16 am

Well as Sir Roled might say, "The proof of the pie is in its taisting".

In that regard a player has brought to my attention a very interesting RP idea which will be kicked off via the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS).

Hopefully we may all find common ground; and express our different style of preference and play; via our participation.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Roled on November 23, 2010, 05:52:00 am
Pie? Did someone mention pie????  ::)
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on November 27, 2010, 02:24:31 am
Also, can you pleeeaase either add a replace(description, "\n", "\n<br />") or, like I suggested, do

That has been addressed using $description=~s/\n/<BR>/g;. Let me know if that is not enough.

It is okay, but you shouldn't make that replacement *while editing* the details, but *while displaying* them. So, the database only saves notmal linebreaks, but the browser gets HTML ones. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Ruya on November 27, 2010, 03:41:01 am
Nova and I have hatched a little idea along the lines of a plot generator, and I'd like to see if anyone has any suggestions about it before I start doing the writing.  :P

Unless you're on PS 24/7, your characters spend a lot of time "off-screen" while you're logged off.   What are they doing while you're not playing them?   I'm a pretty big fan of coming up with ideas about this re: my own characters, and incorporating it into actual RP.  It helps flesh the character out, provides conversation material during those tavern chats where nobody has any interesting news to talk about, and just generally makes RP feel much more natural.  

Essentially, the idea is a small tool that offers randomized suggestions for what's happening to your character off-screen.  Relatively small, non-earth shattering things, but the kind of events that come up in conversation and might impact your character's mood, behavior, etc.   For example:


If it's hooked up to the CPCP database, it can be further fleshed out, with ideas specific to guild status, races, and religions.  For example:


Sound like it might be fun?   Got any interesting ways to expand it further?   And if you've got any good ideas for  entries, PM me, I don't want to write all of them myself. :P  
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on November 27, 2010, 04:08:22 am
@Ruya: If the database was used for this scheme then it is not hard to envision other features....

Player Generated Quests could use the same database table if a different type flag were added to the record.

For example a player might make a public quest that whoever excepts it will then remove it from being offered to others.

... or a No Strings Attached Quest, like the ones you are suggesting Ruya.

The Player Generated Quest could be flagged type 1 and the No Strings Attached Quest could be flagged type 2. Although both using the same record schema and table they could be processed differently. Of course as time goes on there could be other types added.

It sounds like it should also allow all the search criteria which Character Search, presently, provides.

- Nova

... you shouldn't make that replacement *while editing* the details, but *while displaying* them. So, the database only saves notmal linebreaks, but the browser gets HTML ones. Thanks.

Edit 120210: Line breaks are now being turned into HTML line breaks during Character Display. Line breaks are saved as normal line breaks using the Character Edit submission.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Xanthan on November 27, 2010, 04:40:05 am
This is a neat development.  I enjoyed reading your plot creation guide-- much food for thought.  I find it quite inspiring and informative.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: Ruya on November 27, 2010, 05:10:18 am
Player Generated Quests could use the same database table if a different type flag were added to the record.

For example a player might make a public quest that whoever excepts it will then remove it from being offered to others.

Like a jobs board, then?   That would be kind of wonderful if it were set up correctly.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project - Character Monitoring
Post by: novacadian on March 29, 2011, 07:26:31 pm

Users can not monitor the activity of any character on PS using the Monitor Menu option once logged onto the site (http://trollkeep.com/PS).

At the moment only one character can be monitored at a time. This can be expanded if there seems a demand for it.

PS is checked every ten minutes for those currently logged on. If a character being monitored is found to be logged on PS then the time and date are recorded to the database. That data will be displayed to a user monitoring that character when they choose the Monitor Menu option.

The data of the monitored character's activity will be stored in the database of the site until there are 288 separate entries. This would be the same as the number of entries generated if the monitored character was logged on PS for a 24 hour period.

After there are 288 entries, or more, recorded in the database for a monitored character; then that data will be sent to all users which are monitoring that character in an email and the data will then be removed from the site's database via a cron job that will be run each 24 hours. This is to ensure that the database does not become overly cluttered with such monitoring.

Monitoring can be halted by clicking the End monitoring of <character's name> button on the Character Monitor page.

Only the first name of the character should be used when making a request to monitor a character.

Please report any bugs which may be encountered with this option to this thread.

- Nova
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: derula on March 31, 2011, 12:09:21 am
Okay, man, that's enough now. I told you a whole while back what a security wreck your site is, and you didn't bother to do much about it (only the simplest things). Since you didn't ask me back how to implement sessions properly, I must believe you don't care to implement them.

So I'm telling here, everyone: I highly discourage anyone from using nova's site. It is obviously done by a beginner to web programming. That alone is not a bad thing, but there are many ways which demonstrate why a real web developer *does* need to know a few things. Basically, it is very easy for me to find out everyone else's user names and passwords. In fact, I do have nova's password and could have easily collected all login data from anyone looking at Jana's or Urriro's profile. If you don't want to be hacked by a random guy, DON'T USE NOVA'S SITE! It's incredibly horrible, security-wise (also, it's some of the ugliest designs and worst HTML markup I've seen in my life).

If you want to use something similar, please use the official MyPlane (http://planeshift.zeroping.it/myplane/). Horrible name left aside (still better than "Cooperative Plot Creation Project" though), that one is done by someone with actual web programming experience and actually has something you could call design. It may lack a few features from nova's project, but... well, what good are private messages anyway, if any idiot can hack into your account with a little knowledge? You're better off keeping PMs here in the forum...

PS is checked every ten minutes for those currently logged on. If a character being monitored is found to be logged on PS then the time and date are recorded to the database. That data will be displayed to a user monitoring that character when they choose the Monitor Menu option.

The data of the monitored character's activity will be stored in the database of the site until there are 288 separate entries. This would be the same as the number of entries generated if the monitored character was logged on PS for a 24 hour period.

After there are 288 entries, or more, recorded in the database for a monitored character; then that data will be sent to all users which are monitoring that character in an email and the data will then be removed from the site's database via a cron job that will be run each 24 hours. This is to ensure that the database does not become overly cluttered with such monitoring.

Seriously? Is this the best you could come up with?

Nova, I'd recommend you to either fix your site (i.e., implement a proper session management, or make it use HTTP logins for all I care) ASAP, or take it offline. You can't build a fortress for others to live in if you don't know how to build walls. Learn some web programming or GTFO my Internet. Thanks.
Title: Re: Cooperative Plot Creation Project
Post by: novacadian on March 31, 2011, 02:32:03 am

Nice to see you back around derula.

Due to the fact that MyPlane has, coincidentally, offered just about every option that this project had offered; there seemed little sense of throwing more time into the project. It seems to have achieved it's objective if, perhaps, it has been an influence to the wonderful introduction of MyPlane to PS.

As the only feature of this project which seems not available on MyPlane is the monitor option; that will be made the only option left available to users on this project for the time being. There is no security issue surrounding it. No credit info of the user and no password that the user can even generate on their own. Hopefully that will calm your over zealous nerves.

- Nova