PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: paxx on May 24, 2003, 07:04:34 pm
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This is to start things on a good foot, since I think mostly the Pro PK people will answer here, it is biased but what the hey?we can see how a little poll goes.
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well i think that there should be pk\'in because it gives you the ability to show off your hard work. Most people might train just so they can fight other people.
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sure, but it must be controled, perhaps if you want to be a pker, you could set your character as a pker by talking to someone or somthing, and then you can attack anyone, BUT everyone can attack you, but not everyone can attack eachother, unless you want to become a pker. it makes it fair, and if you can never come out a being a pker, its a pretyt big decision
this sounds like the most fair way to have pking in the game without having it go overboard, you need to really commit if you want to pk
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I reckon the best way may be an agreement between the two ppl involved since if you\'re coming back from doing something and low on health, you don\'t really want to get attacked and killed by some guy who wants your stuff. An example of this could be that a player is made invulnerable to damage from another player until he or she gives the order to strike back. This way only people who want to fight get killed. This is just an idea to help keep things fair and stop ppl getting killed when they don\'t want to be.
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Noooooooooooooooooo!!! Never!!!! I\'ll danm this game if you ever put PvP into it paxx! Mark my words!!
http://planeshift.oodlz.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3172&boardid=11
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there will be pk\'in its almost an essential
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As someone say, it is important to have PK\'ing, because it is the only way to compare your character to the others. BUT, the problem is, we don\'t want to force people to PK, and to be PKed.
So the idea is to restrain this to some areas or events, like arena and guildwars. but it\'s not fun if you only kill people who entered the arena only to fight against you, you can\'t backstab them.. hehe.
So I think a good compromise would be to create a special level, where you can only go if you\'re powerful enough, and where PK is allowed. So PKers could go there to kill, and ordinary people would go there and risk there lives because there would be special items to get there or some difficult quests which require you to enter this dangerous level and survive the high level outlaws.
Just an idea, I think PK can be cool if controlled, but I can live without it.
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Only if PKing will be held in arenas and guildwars. Otherwise NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.
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it wont be like open pk.. but maybe a place where there are like drops on the ground where ppl will want to go no matter the risk..and of course guild wars will be open. but as its been said before there could be a button or something to set pk to.. u might only be able to turn this on or off if ur a certain distance from ppl or a time limit after battle or something...
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one of the best things about mmorpgs is pvp..
why do you hate it so much Gronomist?? Personally I think it was the best part of AO during my playtime...
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As long as it is under controlled forms. Perhaps both players have to agree on it. Sort of a duel.
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Look it is imperative in a game like this for PKing to exist. Otherwise what is there to do go around and level a lot, do some quests but even those will die out as time goes on and you get bored. PKing adds a strife and a new element to the game. It allows for wars by guild to exist it defines who people are and also it allows for fair gameplay. I don\'t know how many of you have ever played non PVP games but they suck. People just constantly take your kills from you or will steal your loot or start attacking monsters your might have been training on. PKing should be regulated though so a game does not become solely hack and slash. Heres how to regulate PKing.
1.) You can attack anyone whenever you want whereever.
2.) When you Kill someone they should be told. This can be done many ways. There can be a last killer option or something like that.
3.) When you kill someone you become an outlaw until you go to jail and serve your term. When an outlaw anyone can kill you and they will not become outlaw. Also prevent people from logging off immediately after a conflict too.
4.) Jail is in every town have NPC police that will arrest outlaws when they come within a certain range of them. You must remain in jail for 5minutes. While in jail you are vulnerable to attack from anyone. HOwever, your friends can also protect you in the jail which adds another cool level to the game the importance of forming a group of friends.
5.) Also make sure to make safe areas where no PVP is allowed like banks and town halls orsomething like that.
This is a combination of the methods I\'ve seen used in other games. it is highly effective and will minimize PKs to only those who really want someone dead. Beacuse you will most surely be killed for killing someone else, as is done in the real world.
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I have to put my two cents worth in.
A game like this should have the Possibility of Pking in it.
It adds to the flavor of the game in my opinion.
But then I think only certain places should have the Pking possible like out side town, in dungeons, not on roads...etc. The problem is that even with those things, many a PKer will just sit and ambush people.
I liked the idea about the a person commiting the act becoming wanted after commiting an act of this nature.
And then maybe a reward could be gained.
It added a nice interesting side thing for the game, heck people could become professional Thieves and others could become proffesional Bounty Hunters....
I don\'t know why but that sounds kind of interesting to me.
The biggest problem I see is what exactly would be the reward for Pking someone....
I mean if the person killing another player can rob that individual would that be fair......but then if they could not rob the person....hmm
I suppose the only remedy would be a bank system for the person to hold their stuff, or perhaps making it so the person being killed could only lose the armor they have equiped, the weapon they have equiped and maybe their cash....
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I believe that the possiblity of PK adds a useful social tension to a game. In our real society, the possibility of death and our attempts to prevent death are powerful driving forces for individual and collective activity... I think it makes sense to allow the same forces to act in a fictional world.
By permitting PK in the game on a technical level, it becomes more the responsibility of the in-game society to control PK activity (leveraging technical capabilities that are built into the game by the dev team). This would be similar to the real world, most everyone has the physical capability of killing others, but there are many other things that indirectly prevent (almost all of) us from becoming murderers on a whim or even in a flash of anger.
In my opinion, the imposition of blanket PK-prevention (even in limited territories or whatnot) would be a \'sledgehammer\' solution where something more elegant is called for. We need these indirect methods of making PKing uncommon... furthermore, I think we would find that such social control mechanics will have overall benefits for game play that are not tied solely to the PK issue.
Perhaps the existence of too much PKing is not evidence that PKing should be prohibited by a coding change, but rather is evidence that the in game penalties are not high enough!
(I learned of PlaneShift\'s existence yesterday, so I have no idea about current or planned game capabilities!)
Specific suggestions:
- PK should be possible for all characters in all places;
- game mechanics should permit \'outlaw tag\' that attaches to characters who perpetrate PKs. Perhaps the crime is not publicly announced (perhaps not even announced to the victim), but the tag would still be attached, so a murderer could TRY to blend into a crowd, but an observant \'public defender\' in that crowd could strike down the murderer right there without himself/herself being labelled a murderer
- PK should be unpenalised in some cases (e.g., guild minions engaged in a declared guild war), but robustly penalised in others, with a variety of penalties;
- Penalty: \'government\' confiscation of \'the proceeds of crime\'
- application of a bounty on the head of outlaws (sounds like a quest to me!)
- Penalty: permanent \'branding\' of character as \'murderer\'
- Penalty: corporal punishment (i.e., lose ability points)
- Penalty: house arrest, whereby outlaw tag is attached to character outside of a defined area (allows player to log in and play the character, receive visitors, but bounty hunters might be interested if the character steps outside)
- outlaw tag can be attached globally for a fixed period of time (e,g, a week), so even at home a criminal could be hunted down (i.e., a criminal is then on the run, or can turn himself/herself in to serve a prison term)
- Sentences might be commensurate to relative experience/skill levels of characters to prevent high-levels from picking on newbies; e.g., (a penalty) = (standard penalty) x [log(Level of PKer) - log(Level of Victim)] (or something like that, I am not a mathematician!)
Cases:
- an assassination of a rival guild\'s political leader outside of the context of an explicitly declared guild war might be \'valid\' and \'justifiable\' in some in-game context but, like in the real world, it should have consequences / sentences for the perpetrator, if caught
- PKer kills in an unprovoked, unwanted battle in town and so is banished from town for two weeks (i.e., now has a hard time re-supplying for two weeks, or accessing services like a bank)
Anyhow, just some thoughts!
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i think PK should be enabled too.
- PK should be possible for all characters in all places;
I\'m ok.
- game mechanics should permit \'outlaw tag\' that attaches to characters who perpetrate PKs. Perhaps the crime is not publicly announced (perhaps not even announced to the victim), but the tag would still be attached, so a murderer could TRY to blend into a crowd, but an observant \'public defender\' in that crowd could strike down the murderer right there without himself/herself being labelled a murderer
i don\'t think it\'s a good idea, cause when you see someone, you don\'t know he is a murderer, it\'s not written on his face, so i think outlaw flag isn\'t a good idea.
- PK should be unpenalised in some cases (e.g., guild minions engaged in a declared guild war), but robustly penalised in others, with a variety of penalties;
- Penalty: \'government\' confiscation of \'the proceeds of crime\'
- application of a bounty on the head of outlaws (sounds like a quest to me!)
ok whith this, it sounds very good to me.
- Penalty: permanent \'branding\' of character as \'murderer\'
- Penalty: corporal punishment (i.e., lose ability points)
I\'m not ok with stats loose or only if the guy insists ...
- Penalty: house arrest, whereby outlaw tag is attached to character outside of a defined area (allows player to log in and play the character, receive visitors, but bounty hunters might be interested if the character steps outside)
Jail is usefull, but should be used carrefully ....
:D
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No the outlaw tag is a good idea. Because the person who was PKed will know that the person is an outlaw and he can either tell his friends to get him vengance or announce it on the lines. But yeah I don\'t think the outlaw tag should be announced.
Regardless I definitly think there should be a form of PKing in which if someone wrongs you, you have the option to strike back with or without their consent to fight.
Guild wars are a good idea. It will bring a good aspect of power struggles to the game and will give people a lot to work for, people like myself at least that love battle and wars which is why I personally play to them to be the strongest.
I can see their point that allowing total free range of PKs to kill anyone isn\'t a good idea becuase then bakers and crafters aren\'t safe. However, you could make two different paths. The warrior path and then have all your different classes under that (fighter, Warrior, Sorcerer) and the peaceful path and have your classes under that (baker, crafter) and code it so that only Warrior path can PK and tehy can only kill other warriors. Also if the penalties are high enough for PKing (outlaw idea, Jail, PK vengance, NPC police) then you will completely minimize the amount of PKers in the game.
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in my opinion pking is very fun it adds a dynamic to the game. can anyone name anything in the game thats gives you a rush as much as pking or being pked.. knowing that you just faced off against another person is exilirating. but to limit the pking is really futile because the players will utimatly defien it i know a game that is all vs all pk and its not against the rules to pk its just not done i do think it should have some limits but not as much as some people think. i dont agree in bringing npcs into the mix for a low level person to kill one person on a bad day and be hunted by powerfull npcs would not make the game fun. i also think that pking should have consequences and rewards i mean you pk someone you get some thing good. ie there money or something not all there gear mind you but something. I also think that not every level should be able to attack another. i dont wanna be level 20 and a lvl 100 comes and kills me in one hit that again doesnt seem fun i know you guys dont wanna hear this but id use EQ\'s pvp system on there team pkservers as a guide cause in my opinion they have done it the best so far
Good luck with this issue
it will either make or break the game for many of us
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Well Paxx your people speak... it seems this thread leans in one direction. PK but moderated which I would agree too. Maybe you should make a new thread on PK systems but keep it at the top because the last one sorta fell to the back pages.
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I would have to take the side of the PKers also. There seems to be plenty of systems out there that would successfully allow for PKing to exist in this world. How can you speak of giving the game maximum reality if you don\'t include PKing. You say that it adds grief into the world. Well look around you. Grief exists in this world It is very emminent in the world we live in and a huge social factor. If this simulation is supposed to create a realistic model of the world you are depriving this world of anything realistic by makeing it all nice and dainty. Anyone in this world has the option open to attack or kill anyone but they don\'t. Yeah there are some incidents in which this happens but only a small 1% of the population even chooses to do it. If there are greivers in your game then so be it. Every game has them. You don\'t have to read all of their gay complaints when they are like so and so killed me. Put it into a law that PKing is allowed however mass PKing or Low level PKing will be harshly punished. This way people understand that they could be killed.
Darkanan you have the best system I have seen so far. I love the idea of two different paths a good and a fighting path at the beginning and then people choose their abilities. That is one of the most unique Ideas I have ever seen to date coupled with a mixture of your system and EQ\'s system. It\'s Obvious that the gamers want this in the game. As i remember this is a game for us to enjoy what good is a game with no gamers. At this time many new MMORPGS are rising up and some of them are pretty similar to the ideas put forth in this game and they will also have PKing I have been paying some of them close attention in my decision to see which I shall play. The idea of a realistic world with advanced social system is not new. Pking will make or break this game for me not only because its lack will make the game much less realistic but it will also remove a certain rush, and point to a game such as this.
There are few that will pick up a game like this and decide well all I want to do is make potions and be an alchemist or all I want to do is bake bread. Thats boring. Power, Fame, and Glory, and realism are reasons why people will play this game.
The PK system is out there you just have to put it together or actually listen to us.
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This is my first MMORPG, but i understand there really wont be so much fun without PK. The game is set to Medieval Roleplaying, and why have a weapon, wlak around in town without to be able to kill someone?
Of course, there will be punishment. But let it work as in Morrowind, or better. In Morrowind you can kill someone, but if he/she can get to a guard before he is dead the guard knows who done it. After that it doesnt matter if the guy gets killed or not, you will be chased by guards in every city. When they finally catch you, you can choose:
Pay fee(pay a certain number of gold coins to get free. For killing its about 200 coins)
Go to Jail(you go to jail and it has gone some time before you get out)
Or:
Resist the arrest(fight the guard, but this is not smart, because the guards is not only lethal, they are heavy armed too)
If you steal the penalty will be much lower than this, but all stolen things will be taken.
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pay a certain number of gold coins to get free. For killing its about 200 coins
hmm, does that seem to be heavy enough to control griefers to you? I don\'t...
if you want to control griefers, you have to make the penalty so severe that they would never want to do it again. that\'s why I wrote that about perma death, another solution is getting fined everything their character posesses
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Well... I have never played Morrowind, so I have no idea if 200 coins is strict or not, but it does not sound like a tough penalty.
Losing possessions sounds firmer to me, i.e., losing the tools of PKing or unique items, having the illicitly-gained spoils seized certainly makes sense in an in-game social context, once perpetrator is caught.
You could set the penalty as an increasing fraction of your goods/coins (i.e., 25% for first offense, 40% for second ... 100% after a few).
Of course, you need to prevent the \'workaround\' of a criminal handing off his/her goodies to a complicit guild-mate or chum who returns them after the penalty is enacted...
... so perhaps a Guild should have another penalty enacted upon it when a member breaks the law and is caught, e.g., Guild loses cash/loses stored goods/has a trade tariff imposed until a penalty is paid off, e.g., all goods cost x% more for ALL Guild members... this makes it worthwhile for the Guild to support/manage the good behaviour of its members.
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hehe, I had 2 pay 25000 gold on morrowind once.
This is really simple to sort out, just have areas where pk\'ing is enabled or disabled. Lets say if u get attacked inside an area where it\'s disabled then you dont suffer damage. But once you leave that area people are allowed to attack you and you do get hurt. People who dont want to fight dont have to leave pk\'ing disabled areas.
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I like that, what about a police force? Every time someone PKs, they are added to the wanted list. If they show their face in town, they are captured by the police and have their possessions seized (or are killed if they resist). That way, people could PK but would have to face the consequences of having to live eating bark for the rest of their lives. Also, shops wouldn\'t serve them.
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Like a reputation system? If u\'r rep droped 2 a certain point prices would rise for you, and if u are really evil u get hunted by guards. hmm, yup. Nobody can really complain about that.
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I\'ll vote for PK also.
Firstly, it is more realistic. Secondly, dev who resort to code-base solutions to a social problem is taking the quick way out. If PK is not initially implement, it should be implement at some stage.
You guys have offered so interesting thought and in-game solutions. Give then design so far, I think the dev will find a in-game solution.
So, let me offer a middle of the road solution that immediately address code-base solutions with in-game explainations.
***In essence, my concept is to use glyphs and rituals to explain why certain code-based solutions work***
On PKing
1. PK is conceptually allowed
2. There are certain areas with powerful glyphs that prevent physical attacks. For example, the healer\'s guild.
3. There are other areas with other powerful glyphs that give special protection to players. For example, the arena have a glyph that prevent anyone\'s hit points going below 1 and also prevent unconsciousness.
Here are some implementations to address theft.
1. Possessions can be stolen by a thief
2. However, you can have special items attuned to you (at a price by someone) such that the item can not be removed (permanently in your inventory). If a theft try to steal it, the owner will be immediately alerted.
Here are some implementations to address deaths.
1. You can be killed by anyone
2. However, you can have a contingency ritual cast on you (per D&D) that teleports you back to a safe area before reaching 0 hit points.
* Hope you get the picture about using the glyphs to explain certain in-game code-based behaviours.
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OK,
Just read the clarification between PK and PvP by Paxx.
http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4022&boardid=21&styleid=3
I\'m more respectful of the rational behind the decision.
I\'ll vote down PK and grief, but vote for roleplaying PvP.
The devs have plot out the setting that indicates that both Talad and Laanx values the life of each worshipper. Given this context, it appears the gods are fighting each other for worshippers. Therefore, they would have place great spells to protect their worshipers and save the less fortunate ones that were passed as unworthly worshippers by another god.
Here\'s an in-game concept:
Talad and Laanx both love their worshippers and do not wish them to leave the wonderful world they have created.
Talad\'s realm is strongly protected from death. Only certain powerful beings have learned the ability to circumvent Talad\'s protection. However, the taking of life against Talad\'s will is heavily paid with a portion of the aggressor\'s life and a blood debt to Talad. Killing in Talad\'s realm as a solution to a worshipper\'s problem is not look favorably in Talad\'s eye.
Laanx also protect his realm from death. However, his ways are mysterious. Sometimes he allows the final death blow, sometimes he does not. Sometimes he teleports victims to his temple, sometimes he imprisions the victims in an invulnerable paralysis. Adventurers who ventured in to the Stone Labyrinths brings a Priest of Laanx for good measure or bring a blessed charm for good luck.
What do you think?
I think in-game explanations are more compelling than out-of-game decisions.
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Following on from the ideas about bounty hunters and a police force, you could combine the two ideas.
If someone comits a felony - not necessarily murder, it could be theft, inuslting behaviour etc. too - their name could go onto the wanted list which other people have invisioned.
People could then either take up bounty hunting as a profession, or just simply a way as making quick money.
Bounty hunters would then attempt to track down the criminal; even perhaps if the criminal escapes capture for a certain amount of (logged in) time they get taken off the wanted list. But if the criminal gets cornered then the choice of options is determined by the alignment of the bounty hunter. For example a good bounty hunter would only accept the criminal going to jail, and an evil one would either be allowed to kill on the spot or take a bribe to say that they killed him/her.
However, for all alignments the criminal could get the option of attacking his/her bounty hunter instead. For example a lv10 wanted character would not attack a lv30 bounty hunter, but a lv40 one would. This would mean bounty hunters would go after criminals that are about the same level. With the disadvantage of a lower award for bringing in or killing lower leveled characters.
However I also like the zoned ideas, but I\'d prefer it if there was a reason for that area being safe, like magicback suggested.
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I like your idea, but I don\'t think you should be able to pretend to kill someone. The game should reward you in some places for doing the right thing and sometimes for doing wrong, like taking a fugitive in alive would warrant a larger reward, but also in some places you could lie to get what you want e.g. in neverwinter nights you can con people by pretending to be a tax collector, which gives you evil points.
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A relevant article has been posted to LawMeme, of all places: http://research.yale.edu/lawmeme/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1239
If you have been following this thread here, you might be interested; the author tackles underlying issues that any PvP \'solution\' must address.
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Well, I\'m here for immersion, and that would be all but impossible without PK.
I like the idea of bounty hunters, and maybe limit pk\'ing to players within 3 or 5 levels of where you are? The fights would be somewhat even, individual strengths would really matter, and maybe impose the aforementioned penalties for killing a lower level player UNLESS they attack you first, then it\'s a free kill. Obviously, there would be no penalty for guild members engaged in a declared war. This is really a complex subject, but there must be a way to implement PK without lvl50\'s slaughtering lvl3\'s. And, PK must be there to really give good immersion to the player.
Just my HO, this wouldn\'t be worthwhile without PK... I would probably get bored and just go elsewhere, as would others, I think.
Nietal
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I just wanna have the chance to kill any thief who steals from me if I catch him.
The guildwar idea seems ok. Why not give it a try and comment after?
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Fist I want to clarify what I think PK means...
Player Killing (pking) means you are farming player characters to collect items, instead of NPCs. It is only possible in a system that has PvP combat allowed in zones that you normally would be playing in. This is different than arena combat.
Now my two cents....
A system that allows PKing adds an element of danger and can give you a much bigger rush than a PvE game. BUT! Player vs Player (PvP) does not add anything to realism. I am getting annoyed by this comment. Is it realistic to be in a world where you are constantly sent back to some point of origin when your health drops to zero? Is it realistic to commit murder and then have some sort of red flag over your head? A MMORPG is NOT realistic!
What I have noticed is that games that have a PK danger are LESS roleplay oriented and more \"game like\" than ones that are PvE. So, just admit it, you want to PK because it is Fun for you. For some it is fun to sneak up on a player while he or she is baking a cake or resting or someother thing and \"testing\" your new 75th level infernal flame of damnation spell, or maybe your new mind control power!
The MMORPG PK game is simple... at low levels you form power leveling groups to get to the max level as fast as possible. At high levels you find the weaker target and press the attack button. Because your \"level\" has the greatest outcome on the battle, most battles are total mismatches. The true skill in a PK game is not PKing!!!!! It getting exp points and items when everyone is out to get you. Typically this kind of system destroys any roleplay experience. However this does not mean the game is not fun.
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I gotta vote for depends how.
Some situations with PKing ( like dueling, arena combat, guild vs guild, nation vs nation etc...) give all parties a fair chance at combat. Other situations (like a lvl 50 hunting lvl 10\'s) are complete BS, those are the ones that ruin games for every1.
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ive said it before and ill say it again..pk\'ing should be allowed..but punishment depending on lvl difference between pk\'er and victim should be thought about
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I think it is reasonable to conficate one\'s posessions after a PK. But I still think PKing should be in the game... pe:
You hate someone sooo much that you\'re willing to exact revenge at any cost, even your ultra equipment. There\'s nothing like moral/mental satisfaction. :D
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I have heard several times there is going to be no actual levels in the game so how can you enforce a level 50 going after a level 10 if there is no such thing? Also if there are penalties would it apply to both parties o t only the person who initiated the attack? Would you be penalized for killing in self-defense? If you want to be fair about penalties then you should get penalzed even for killing in self defense. Because that was your choice to kill instead of maybe do enough damage to knock your attacker unconcsious.
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If people would actually roleplay, and only kill people when they have a reason for it, I would enjoy PvP, however it isn\'t like that. Griefers start hunting people instead of monsters, only to be a pain in the rear for everyone else, and that\'s why I never have supported PvP in any way. Of course, if you had the chance of getting your character removed permanently from the game, for being caught after killing someone, I\'d like it, however if not, it\'s just a question about time before the PKers start ruining the game for others. Personally, I think it does not matter at all, whether only some parts of the world has PvP enabled, or if it\'s the whole world. It\'s the fact that people misuse the PvP concept to get rid of people who they think are not k00l enough.
So, if there\'s a very strong consequence for killing someone, reason or no reason, I\'m in for it. Otherwise, I\'d say keep it to pre-arranged duels and arenas.
Besides, it\'s impossible to RolePlay PvP in a MMORPG, as there simply are too many people who don\'t do it, and it kindof spoils the RolePlay element.
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Gronomist,
Most people, myself included don\'t really roleplay. The best you will get from me is an ocational \"Orcs must die\" warcry. There are very few roleplayers on this board. It is true PvP can destort roleplay, but it is not really there to begin with.
In the darkages farmers and bakers were living in very opressive situations. You would like hard core PvP. You can roleplay by claiming the pkers have opressed you, and then having to turn to high council and beg for some protection from them. All the while having to pay a 75% percent tax.
If you tell the high council that you can not pay your tax this month because some player named \"phatlewt\" killed you and took all of the money you made from selling Kran berry pies then I am sure a bounty hunter will be sent out.
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why train if u cant kill someone? i dont get it pointless isnt it?
and so there is this arena crap eh....now if u were the strongest player in PS...why would anyone bother to fight u in the arena...sounds..dumb...
ive got no really good ideas how to fix it, but...why not let people pk all they want, but every time they kill someone they get more evil and such, more evil u get the more shops wont want to deal with u, and if u get too evil guards will whack ya?
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Meket,
I agree with you about the Arena concept. Arena combat is very different than open field PvP. It is good to have in game. But generally Arena\'s are something that newbies mistakenly step into and get killed by a seasoned player who see them do it. I speak from the experience of being the newbie on this one.
As for the reason to level your skill if you don\'t have PvP, let me answer your question with a question. Have you ever heard of EQ?
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kapa!!! I\'m fully in support of full PVP. I\'ve been playing muonine for some time now, and they have full PVP. If u kill u\'r rep goes down, and u\'r name starts to go red. When it\'s red anyone can kill u with out their rep going down. U should see the hunting parties that develop near town gates. Anyone who\'s killed lots gets sliced apart as soon as they step out. :D
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I beleive that PKing is always a good element to have in a gema with some acceptions. But the problem is that having safe zones will only mean people who manage to hack the game can have a one-way-fight- vs a defenceless newbe.
-sugesstion: players can only atack charicers a certain ammount of levels lower than them, but, charcters lowerr than that magin would have to start the combat in order to go lower than that margin
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Originally posted by Xordan
kapa!!! I\'m fully in support of full PVP. I\'ve been playing muonine for some time now, and they have full PVP. If u kill u\'r rep goes down, and u\'r name starts to go red. When it\'s red anyone can kill u with out their rep going down. U should see the hunting parties that develop near town gates. Anyone who\'s killed lots gets sliced apart as soon as they step out. :D
I completely agree with Xordan :) Even if i have never played MU, that\'s what i\'d like to see in PS
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Originally posted by derwoodly
I agree with you about the Arena concept. Arena combat is very different than open field PvP. It is good to have in game.
I think we should have an arena and an open field...the arena bot player gotta accept while in the field, you attack without any restrictions.
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I have just posted my comment under Snow Raven\'s \"PVP Should Be Allowed\" before I found this thread. I think it\'s more considerate than having to send all of you off looking for my posted thoughts on this subject under another thread, so I\'ll just copy/paste it here if that\'s ok?
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Paxx said:
\"I ask everyone realize that currently we will allow various forms of PvP and Pking but only under strict guidelines, Dual, Guild War, Arena fighting?and these forms will even have variances within themselves. But in large part the game will not be PvP, Pk, or allow players pick pocketing or mugging other players.\"
I really do hope that this decision, though several months past since he announced it, will stay in place. It appears I\'m going to start off on the wrong foot with a lot of players here and become unpopular, and I\'m sorry for this, but I have played in many worlds where outright PVP was allowed and those game are either gone now or have very few players because all those that really wanted to play the game and not have to watch their backs 24/7 gave up and left as I eventually did. Some games got so bad that just trying to step out of one\'s home or safe town meant you were hunted down relentlessly by gangs of thugs just out to make other players their personal sporting targets and then picked clean. I hope that Paxx and others creating this world will consider keeping their original idea of making PVP an event allowed only under special circumstances and in specifically assigned areas.
Ok, I\'ve put my neck out, now to face the slaughter... (Cringes) :/
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PK anyway...its the only way to show others how good u really are..or..it doesnt really matter in RPGs how u can kill other players...RPGs are mostly important in role play but In such kind of mmorpg like PS ..I think PK is very useful..(guilds) ya mean
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im sticking with paxx\'s ideas as well. allowing pking will ultimately detract from the role-playing part of the game as the griefers run around head-farming. as an example, go running around in fellucia(ultima online) for a few hours and count how many times you\'ve been gang raped. it only took me 10 minutes in fel to run into my first gang of pkers. my char only had about 450% out of 700% skills vs 7-8 700% chars hand tailored for griefing. i was killed in approx 3 seconds and had to run around for the next hour+ looking for any healers that the pkers left alive. pvp should be allowed albeit limited, otherwise we would not be able cut down the egos of the verbally abusive. in the end, it is nigh-impossible to write a set of codes that can deal with the case-by-case scenario of pvp and keep it fair for all involved.
P.S. it is possible to change one\'s mac address and its a bit easier than one might think. ive found multiple articles on changing nic addresses, but i feel it would be counterproductive to post the links.
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I wouldn\'t play a RPG that allowed full PVP. If it allowed such things as guild wars, arena fighting, one-on-one dueling, and an option to turn yourself into a PK that can only kill other PKs, that would be fine and often fun, but I don\'t play RPG\'s for pvp, I play FPS\'s and strategy games for pvp, where it actually depends on skill instead of the time you\'ve wasted on your character.
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good point Saethan!!!
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What happens when there is a mid-level gang that see a char all alone outside the city walls and is killing small monsters. The char is not wearing much equipment so they assume its a mid-level to newb char so they ambush the char. There is one thing they dont know the char is has 1000 skill points more than the :P. so they try to fight the char they get slaughtered by the char :D.
So what happens to the char? Does the char count as a criminal? He might because the gang didnt kill the char it may look like the char just killed the gang for fun.
This almost destroys the Open PvP idea because what if someone is playing with someone else and the someone else think the person playing around is trying to kill him so he kills the playing person :(
Will he then turn into a criminal?
So do you think that open pvp should go on? Any ideas?
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... now, the idea about Pk is, in the arena, and with rival Guilds... so rival guilds can kill people of they\'r enemy :P
yeah guild wars :D ... but the better is Arena anda a free Pk zone, you know, for some x1 (urgh ! i hate CS)
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There the PK was possible anywhere on the Felluca continent. You could kill another player and loot him. You couldn\'t take only his basic stuff(mage\'s spell book,clothing,etc) Killing another player marks you as criminal and your name is been seen in red by all players. All the towns had very strong guards that teleported near the criminal and kill him if he does something in the town (after a set amount of PKs the guards spawn when you enter the city teritory). If another players is attacked and writes \"guards\" the guards appear to kill the attacker Same goes for thiefing but your name becomes grey and the danger is only if you perform something in the town and the other player notices it and calls the guards. I think that way of PK will be mostly enjoyable. The players could PK and the victim isn\'t complitly defenceless. Only thing is that if a guard kills a monster no loot is left. If he helps you kill another PK you can loot. In every town there are banks in which you can leave items and money that can not be taken by another player.
Hey is it cool type \"/guards\" and some NPC\'s guards came and give a lesson ???!??!?
So useful ! yeah in the city... pure safe. Never gona be robed ins town again :D
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i reckon that there shouldnt be PKing everywhere. i reckon this is when it should be allowed
you should be able to kill someone anywhere if they are from an enemy guild (this will be an option for guild leaders wont it, the ability to declare war with another guild)
there should be a stadium or arena where you can walk up to someone and challenge them to a duel.
Pking areas, there might be areas where you can attack other people, there could be a mine with heaps of crystals or a shop with great items for very cheap at the middle of it so if you manage to make it past all the crazed players and lots of strong monsters aswell you get a nice reward.
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well i personally don\'t care to be a pk\'er but i also think it is an essential part of gaming simply because we are all different in the way we like to play...i think it should be your chioce weather you want to be a pker or not it would be foolish to make the game so that enyone can attack enyone else.
and that\'s my 2cent\'s :o)
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Originally posted by rumblebelly
well i personally don\'t care to be a pk\'er but i also think it is an essential part of gaming simply because we are all different in the way we like to play...i think it should be your chioce weather you want to be a pker or not it would be foolish to make the game so that enyone can attack enyone else.
and that\'s my 2cent\'s :o)
I personally agree with you. This pleases both those who are for PKing and those who are against it. People who want to settle a score right there, right now, can toggle their PvP status \'on\', whereas other people may want to watch, but certainly never take part in any fighting. They\'d be safe from any damage from players fighting eachother, and it wouldn\'t be a case of \"I want to kill you, but this game doesn\'t allow PvP anywhere but the arena\". (Keyword there being \'game\'... and, as many people often say, we should try to minimise how fake a world PlaneShift will seem).
On a related point, PS is supposed to be all about freedom, from the way your character looks, to what you\'ll be good at in the game, even to how you gain experience. Shouldn\'t this freedom also extend to the choice of whether to be a PvP target or not in any area of the world? I don\'t see the harm in it, myself, and I cannot see a reason why any penalties would be needed if this approach was taken for PlaneShift.
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i fully support pking
i remember in some other games where being an archer had its advantages like you sit in the backround then when your partner is low on health end his suffering with a swift stab in the back and steal his stuff :P
i think there should be limitations to pking tho
if you attack a player in a safezone a guard will attack you and will be immortal
if you attack players lower level than you too many times you get a bounty put on your head and anyone can attack you anywhere no matter what untill your dead (if anyone here has played puzzle pirates just think of the black ship)
the community seems to evolve into pking in most games though cuz in most games ive seen if you attack someone without reason or your guarding enterances to towns your name will be known and people will hunt you down
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okay i\'m really not sure on this one it would all depened on how it was setup. I think that you should not be able to kill people in towns. but it would be intreasting to be able to kill them in the areas in between diffrent towns, this would be good for a few reasons. Pkers would be able to kill people out there with seemingly no penalty, they could be considered as bandits i guess. also if a player wanted protection in getting between citys they could find a mercanary or whatever to guide them/protect them between city\'s. well this may not make much since because i spell sorta bad and dont always think through what i write, but theres my 2 cents.
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Xordan
kapa!!! I\'m fully in support of full PVP. I\'ve been playing muonine for some time now, and they have full PVP. If u kill u\'r rep goes down, and u\'r name starts to go red. When it\'s red anyone can kill u with out their rep going down. U should see the hunting parties that develop near town gates. Anyone who\'s killed lots gets sliced apart as soon as they step out.
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I completely agree with Xordan Even if i have never played MU, that\'s what i\'d like to see in PS
That\'s exactly what we need to stay away from. all that will do is turn PS into a simple hack-and-slash where people spend all their time either hunting Players or hunting PKers. Let\'s not forget that this is a RolePlayingGame.
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Originally posted by AendarCallenlasse
Quote:
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Originally posted by Xordan
kapa!!! I\'m fully in support of full PVP. I\'ve been playing muonine for some time now, and they have full PVP. If u kill u\'r rep goes down, and u\'r name starts to go red. When it\'s red anyone can kill u with out their rep going down. U should see the hunting parties that develop near town gates. Anyone who\'s killed lots gets sliced apart as soon as they step out.
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I completely agree with Xordan Even if i have never played MU, that\'s what i\'d like to see in PS
That\'s exactly what we need to stay away from. all that will do is turn PS into a simple hack-and-slash where people spend all their time either hunting Players or hunting PKers. Let\'s not forget that this is a RolePlayingGame.
yea i totaly agree with aendarcallenlasse i mean how would anyone be able to do anything with them being killed every 2 mins. i mean if were eventually going to get jobs how could anyone do anything along the lines of work? maybe im missing somthing in this...
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I think you\'re over-dramatizing the amount of people who would actually spend all their time pking.
The benefits of having pvp far outweigh the negative aspects IMHO
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Ok, there has been a lot of arrguments about PKing, should it be in coloseums, duels, guild wars, ect.......
Well i have a solution:
Farther away from cities and urban areas, there shall be places where people would go at there own risk.... these places should be fields and forests between large cities placed... other than PKing these places should also have stronger monsters and more advanced quests...
The advantages to this is first that it will be more realistic, these will be places where the laws and order of the cities can not be enforced and chaos rules. And second of all it will keep newbs from wondering to far (finaly a place where you could see something other than Q\'s like \"how do i jump\" in the chat box) :]
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As for the rep thing on pvp, REP can actually work when there\'s a large number of \"bad rep\" and \"good rep\" and \"neutral\" cities. The npcs should react according to it\'s city\'s rep tolerance. This way, people who like to pvp can go to bad rep cities without worrying about \"pvp-hunter-griefers,\" ppl who never pvp can stay at good rep cities and ppl who are in the in-between stages can go to neutral cities. REP should be able to be changed by doing different types of deeds in order to increase or decrease REP. But I think that\'s just more for cities rather than pvp in general.
I do like the idea that harder monsters are further from town, and will likely keep vagabonds busy... but I don\'t think it would help against a group of pvp killers. It would probably just allow them more time to find you and slay you while you are engaged in combat. There were many guilds in SB that had groups specifically trying to do that. It made matters worse when one of them were grouped with you. They would just relay a mssg to the rest of their guild where the party was and would surprise attack as soon as you were in combat or right after. Some ppl live for pvp, those are the ones you need to regulate in order to keep the care-bear players happy. A well-rounded PVP system is an essential aspect to making PlaneShift into a successful game.
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Well, as for keeping peace, i think the guilds might help... Think of it this way... You see a newb lost in some PK area, you kill the newb. On top of the newbs name apears the name of the killer (you) that only his fellow guild members will see. Also after you killed the newb, an option was enabled that lets the newbs guild kill you in non PK areas... And it just so happens that some buff veteran guild member doesnt like his newbs bieng killed, so he sends a assasin party after you...
DO YOU STILL WANA KILL THE NEWBS???
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I think I have said this before in some other posts, but I think it is worth repeating. Only a game that puts vertually no restrictions on when, where and who you can kill is truely a PvP system.
If everytime you win a battle you are labled a \"killer\" then some killers may be just people defending themselves.
I do like the idea of having safe areas for low levels and for merchants. When a new player is mugged it speaks poorly of the experienced players. When they attack new players it is like shooting fish in a barrel. But it is still done. Safe areas for the first few hundred skill points will help newer players to get used to the game. I would even enjoy at game that had a safe area that let you get to 90% of your max level. Getting the last 10% would require you to venture out into the \"real\" world and it should take longer than the first 90%. Then at 99% that last 1% should be very hard to get.
Note: I am mentioning the percents as just a guidline, I know PS is going to use a skill point system.
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yes i think player killing should be in this game to make it good. BUT not on new players and not on people who are weak. a dueling area is a good idea
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If you look at the various ways that PKing is done in other massive multiplayer aspects each have their advantages and disadvantages.
Take Everquest with its racial or diety wars, usually one side ends up lopsided over another but, you cant kill your own guys ( frag ).
DAOC - proper you entered a fronteir area where pvp was open in certial regions, only to opposing teams. but ou could do it based on individual or team efforts.
DAOC - pvp you could kill anyone anytime - this type of open pvp usually spawns hordes of the most powerful classes beating up on everyone else and entire guilds made up of only a few classes or (builds) dominating the rest of the server until the game makers are forced to nurf the class or make balance changes.
Then you have Shadowbane which was full pvp also, and ran into the same problems a daoc pvp
I think that PVP is almost a neccesary part of any roleplaying game as it allows for justice amung players, but i also think there should be penalties involved in the pking. Some games try to do this with factions, others with a \"karma\" that makes those players evil. I think taking some of all of these might be the way to go for a productive pvp system
Holding players accountable for their actions is the toughest thing that any game can accomplish, and doing it in a manner that will attract players is even tougher. lets do some for instances... the first thing a pker will ask is, whats the loot rules.
No loot? well a pker that can kill without worry of losing his items if he himself is killed, attracts tons of griefers but the antipkers like it because they dont have to worry about losing hard to get items.
Partial loot - this is always tough, because the only way ive ever seen this effectively work was in bad game that had good intentions. A pker who killed and killed gained negative karma and once deemed evil there was a % chance that that person would drop an worn or weilded item based on teh percentage of negative karma.
Full loot, pkers love it rpers hate it. but it does hold pkers more accountable if they get caught, and what you normally end up with is nekkid pkers running around trying to get a blind kill on an unsuspected victim.
So how do you allow pk without running into major problems? I think the idea of making PK regions that only characters over a certian level can enter is the best beginning. as far as rewards and penalties, i like the idea of being able to kill whomever you want, but if you kill players way under your level you should be penalized for it.
I dunno i dont have an answer i am just offering up what other games have done and not done ... to stir some conversation
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I have played a free mmohrpg (h for horror) and there is a full PK system...nobody is complaining and there is no newbie killin rampage..everything is real and the way it should be..and this PS community is full of friendly ppl..so I dont think that full pvp system is going to be a problem...but devs know what devs do...
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What is the free mmorpg called?
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What about having the victim of a killing receive their money back and thier items back plus half of what the killer has if they are caught. If the kiler no longer has their items the person gets all of the killers items and money and the next 1000 dollars the killer makes is automatically given to the victim.
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no no....U can have a free PK system but if u kill someone u dont recieve anything from him...only a little exp and a some of ur good points decrease.Only places u can get loot out of other non npc chars is in the \"free battlezones\" and in duel areas (i like arenas ;) )
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I believe that PK\'ing should be allowed, but to certain standards...
1 - Massive PK\'ing - Yes!
2 - Selling of the items looted from someone\'s corpse - NO!
3 - Bounties on the head of a PK\'er - YES! YES! YES!
4 - Tag that marks someone as Murderer so that everyone in the world knows you PK - NO!
5 - New Job: Bounty Hunter - YES!
Now you see here is the idea that I have... Allow PK\'ing to happen, but also for each person you kill you get a bounty put on your head. Say for every 10 people that you kill the bounty moves up by 25%... THUS... The first 10 people you kill will cost you 1000 currency pieces per kill... THUS 10000 Currency Pieces for 10 people, but on your 11th person it goes up by 25%, and thus moves up to 11250, because it went from 1000 currency pieces per kill to 1250 currency pieces per kill. Then 2000 at 21, and so on and so on... NOW, There would limitations to things like this, because people would Exploited that feature and get rich extremely quickly. You wouldn\'t be able to get another bounty placed on your head from the same person twice for atleast 10 hours after the first time you kill them... THEN You wouldn\'t be able to collect a bounty off the same account for nearly 240 hours (10 days). Now you ask...
\"If I am killed... How does this help me!?\"
Well, if you are killed, sorry... Die\'ing isn\'t supposed to help anyone, BUT your items that the person loots will be tagged and will not be able to be dropped except into bags that also will no be able to be dropped once a player looted item is placed into it. Or put into a trade menu either. EXCEPT for Crystals and for gold. They can\'t sell the items to NPC\'s either. They can use the item though to show that they have it. When used it dies just like normal wear and tear, and any charges used are used for good of course. S/He could pretty much use the item as if it were his/her\'s item. Once the bounty is collected though, your items are either teleported DIRECTLY to your bank (If there is one) or to your pack.. YOUR choice, because it would bring up a menu informing you that the items were back. All items would be brought back EXCEPT gold or Crystals...
This would allow PK\'s to show there place and even loot, but would give everyone a disadvantage along with an advantage.
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I dont like the idia of massive PKing, becuase people will just spawn camp at newb spawnpoints, but if you make the PK areas a bit farther from cities it will be more or less ok...
And anyways, if you kill some guild member the guild wont be to happy about it... The thought of bieng jumped by the guild would stop most people from execive PKing. And another thing is that most guilds have rules about killing other PlaneShifters withought the consent of the guild, so you realy cant count on backup... So, maby guilds will turn out to be the law inforcers in PS... who knows...
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I hope this game goes PK not just a certain area to PK but anywhere except maybe shops, temples maybe even cities, but everywhere else should be made fair game!
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so here i am, I got PK now what do it do. I have lost everything with no recorse for action to the crime.(well maybe other then the person getting a mark added to there name that done not help me any.)
If we are going to have a PK system then lets put in a system where by people cant just go around freely PKing other people with out a price to pay for it.
We can put in NPC Mercs that can be bought to hunt down PKers, (only people with a neg mark) and if I dont have the money myself then i can pay in what I can and tomarow another peoson can pay in till the merc is bought and the PKer is killed.
If I am a merchent and have been PKed there is no way I will have the skill to fight the PKer myself. Therefor I have no recorse for action. Unless I can Hire a NPC to kill the PKer, and maybe get half of my goods back, NPC keeping the other half.
This will both take money and goods out of the game too. I will feal I can do something to get part of my goods backand to get back at the PKer. The Pker will know there will be a price to pay for their crimes.
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I come from playing EverQuest for about a year on a PvP server, and I have to say that nothing is more entertaining and/or frustrating than PvP. Maybe try the same thing EQ did and have separate PvP servers or something that allows PvP characters to only PK other PvP characters on a server.
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Twiz,
I my opinion EQ\'s PvP system is about the worst. DAoC and Shadowbane are much better systems. Not perfect, but much, much better.
However, none of these games are free or have any real roleplay. PS is looking to make a game that is more like the pen and paper games, or at least that is how I understand the posts.
One more thing!
Welcome to Plane Shift!
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Hmm There should defenetly be pking, its really fun. It hink you should have a restricted area to where upon entrance, you will only be able to attack or be attacked by peopel a certain level..as you work your way further into this area, more people will be able to attack you as higher levels aand you will be able to atatck lower levels. Why would ordinary non-pkers wanna go in here? Have the best leveling spots here as well as may rare things you can find here and perhaps a few quest. ALso have a thing to where you cannot log out unless you havent been in combat for the last 20 seconds, that way for those non-pker people, they have to escape instead of just logging out :P.
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If PS is to have a Player vs player system (PvP), also know as PKing, it must enforce the roleplaying aspect of the game not just provide you with a thrill a whackin other players.
In my exp the level restriction system gets abused. It allows bands of low level thugs to prowl without fear of high level guild leaders hunting them down.
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I think there should be a pk system like conquer online,
You can pk everyone everwhere, but if you pk.....you get pk points, for one kill 10 points ect, then i takes 10 min. till they are gone....1 pk point in 1 min. and if you pk to much you would be go to jail and must mine till you have xxx money or something. And there should be guards at a high lvl in every town to protect pking in towns, everybody should see the person who was pket, maybe on the namecolor......till the points are gone.
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I dont know if this has already been suggested but i was thinking that there could be a sort of city guard in the cities, so tking should be allowed anywhere, but if there is a fight in the city the guards should appear from somewhere and stop (through killing the attacker i guess) kinda like in BGII
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I voted for No PK
I read all the 3d and this is my opinion
1 - I don\'t agree with PK, that concept means that there will be players that kill other players only for profit
With no valid reason
2 - PvP otherway is more acceptable to my concept of game even if I\'m not very interested in it
3 - Doing murdering in town should be considered a crime isn\'t it ? Someway for a while a pg that has killed a person must be identificable by other players: traces of blood on his clothes could be seen or some other things could be noticed by others do you agree?
4 - Even Pk and/or PvP have to be controlled: if you were killed by another player you\'ll try to become stronger ( and that\'s good ) to be able to take a revenge on him ( and that\'s bad for me ).The risk is that all of us will be occupied on this sort of occupations ...
5 - That means there must be some kind of controls or punitions for who breaks the law and controls by the server staff
Theese are only a few ideas I got: might be right ight be wrong ..
I\'m not Pk or PvP oriented so I think I won\'t base my alter ego on a combat style ...
Bye
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There must be pk.....why should you lvl yourself without pk? For the Monsters? lol
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Originally posted by Hyarmendacil
There must be pk.....why should you lvl yourself without pk? For the Monsters? lol
We\'re not equal
We don\'t play for the same reason that\'s sure
In fact I think if I\'ll have to spend my time powering up my alter ego only for fighting with others I\'ll choose a different game
I\' ll play ( in future I suppose ) because that\'s an Rpg game: what interests me is envolving my pg into society and grow it .. and for sure that does not directly depend on the lvl I\' ve reached